Planning Ahead

[FundedByGov]

Hey everyone, I'm new here to the forum but I've been searching a lot of threads on here to learn as much as I could.
Recently I decided to buy a 1997 Nissan 240sx LE with a KA25DE. I was thinking about doing a GTR motor swap but I seen that done plenty of times on a couple forums. I decided to rebuild the KA25 and stick with that.

I got stuck on my research though. So after building the engine with a few bolt ons I want to put a turbo in. BUT I want to run stage 3 cams. With a turbo I know you'd want low compression pistons but running stage 3 cams I read that the pistons need to be high compression at about 11+. If I were to get stage 3 cams with high compression pistons how much would it affect the turbo? Should I just run low compression and stage 2 cams with a turbo? Or should I do the stage 3 cams high compression with the turbo?

Another thing I was looking at was the Stroker kit I have listed. It says it comes with custom pistons but has no compression values? Should I just buy the parts in the kit individually or..?

Also, if I get stage 3 cams will it matter if I have a stage 2 or stage 3 clutch?

That's all I have for now, please understand that I am a bit new to actually building cars. I do research, I don't just look up parts and buy them... I plan on taking a lot of time with this car, to get what I want I must have the patients for it... And the open mind to learn from those with experience and knowledge.

If you guys have any input please feel free, although keep in mind I'm not here to argue.

Parts -
Cold Air Intake: $312
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/K&N/Intakes/Air_Intakes/Typhoon_Complete_Cold/19402

Header: $350
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/DC_Sports/Exhaust/Headers//2070

Exhaust: $420
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Megan_Racing/Exhaust/Exhaust_Systems/Turbo_Type_Cat_Back/12245

Intake Manifold: $300
http://www.partstrain.com/store/details/Univ/Edelbrock/Intake_Manifold/E112970.html

CF Hood: $600
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/performanceparts/Nissan/240SX/Body/Hoods

Alloy Wheels: $568
http://m.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQNissanQQ240SXQQSacchiQQWheelQQ19951998QQSAC23577 11B.html

Big Brakes: $1,590
http://arizonazcar.com/240sxbrakes.html

******** KA24 Stroker kit (Includes: Crankshaft, connecting rods, custom pistons, (full ring pack and buttons): $3,400
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Brian_Crower/Engine/Stroker_Kits/KA24DE/16530

Fuel Injectors: $720
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/HKS/Fuel/Fuel_Injectors//1912

Fuel Pump: $415
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/HKS/Fuel/Fuel_Pumps/In_Tank/1064

Fuel Rail: $200
http://m.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQNissanQQ240SXQQAEMQQFuel_RailQQ19911998QQA182514 2BK.html

********** Cams: $550
http://www.crower.com/nissan-ka24de-dohc-16v-turbo-camshafts.html
Requires: http://www.crower.com/kit-nissan-ka24da-single-spring-titanium-retainers.html

********* Stage 2 Clutch: $350
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Competition_Clutch/Clutch/Clutch_Kits/Stage_2_Sport_Compact/17031

****** Flywheel: $270
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Competition_Clutch/Flywheels/Flywheels/Lightweight_Steel/17166

Coilovers: $1,700
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Tein/Suspension/Coilovers/Super_Drift/6948

Front / Rear sway bar: $215 front $180 Rear
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Megan_Racing/Suspension/Sway_Bars/Adjustable/13694

Sparco seats (Black with blue lining): $220 (for brackets, seats already owned)
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Sparco/Interior/Seat_Brackets/400_Series/5021

Pillar Pods: $35
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Autometer/Gauges/Pillar_Pods/Single_Gauge_Attachable/3786

**TURBO** full kit: $2,250
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/Extreme_Turbos/Turbos/Turbo_Kits/Budget_Turbo_Kit/17994

Turbo Timer: $110
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/GReddy/Electronics/Turbo_Timers/Full_Auto_II/15930

Boost Controller: $765
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/HKS/Boost_Controllers/Boost_Controllers/EVC_VI/2618



49070

[Mikester]

If that's you underneath the car in that pic, I am here to help ;)

[FundedByGov]

If that's you underneath the car in that pic, I am here to help ;)

Haha
Wouldn't we all be more than willing to help if it were? xD
Sorry to burst your bubble but its just a picture off the Internet :)

[Kingtal0n]

if your power goal is 550RWHP or less I would simply install an OEM 2jz-gte with a real turbo/fuel system and forget about all that complicated nonsense.

[FundedByGov]

if your power goal is 550RWHP or less I would simply install an OEM 2jz-gte with a real turbo/fuel system and forget about all that complicated nonsense.

I appreciate your input but as for now I really don't have any "power goal" I'm looking to achieve. I'm mostly looking to learn, to get the experience of rebuilding a motor, and making improvements step by step.
Maybe after I learn, experience, and have myself set and happy with the build I will strive for more power and go with a motor swap.

You know what I mean? :)

[Kingtal0n]

It takes a few engines to get it right. You should do an OEM rebuild first, just put back the stock internals. Run the engine for a bit then sell it.

Then do it again. This time do the head, upgrade the cams and springs/retainers, new guides etc... learn how to check the machine shop's work. Find one that gives paper work that shows the clearances and materials/settings of everything they do. You cant do everything yourself, so you need to be able to verify that yes, for instance, the piston wall clearance is correct, yourself.

Finally, if those two engines come out ok, you are ready for some real internals. Get a real engine, designed for high performance use (sr20/2jz/lsx imo) and build it using your "experience".

[FundedByGov]

It takes a few engines to get it right. You should do an OEM rebuild first, just put back the stock internals. Run the engine for a bit then sell it.

Then do it again. This time do the head, upgrade the cams and springs/retainers, new guides etc... learn how to check the machine shop's work. Find one that gives paper work that shows the clearances and materials/settings of everything they do. You cant do everything yourself, so you need to be able to verify that yes, for instance, the piston wall clearance is correct, yourself.

Finally, if those two engines come out ok, you are ready for some real internals. Get a real engine, designed for high performance use (sr20/2jz/lsx imo) and build it using your "experience".

Thanks! Definitely will consider and engine swap down the road.
As for now, am I going down the right path? What am I missing? What's your input on the stage 3 cams high compression pistons with a turbo and stage 2 low compression pistons with a turbo?
Will the high compression pistons work with a turbo if I have stage 3 cams?

[Kingtal0n]

Did you read? Start with oem internals. All this high compression stuff is confusing you. Sounds like you need to read some books about false atmospheres.

for instance, #1 there is no such thing as "stage 3 XXX" thats just hype talking. Dont listen to anyone that says anything about stage anything. in fact wipe the word stage out of your dictionary for car talk.

[FundedByGov]

Did you read? Start with oem internals. All this high compression stuff is confusing you. Sounds like you need to read some books about false atmospheres.

Why start with oem internals? I haven't had any information on the pistons themselves, I don't understand the differences between high and low compression but I do understand that low compression pistons are typically used for turbo charged engines to lower the risk of engine knocking at high boost levels. I also understand that with stage 3 cams high compression pistons are needed in order to keep the engine in motion and idling without stalling.

[FundedByGov]

What is the proper term I should be using then? As I've understood it stage X is a simple way to categorize parts for the street, the track, or both.

I'm willing to learn, really. :)

[KiLLeR2001]

This isn't the Gran Turismo parts store. If you want to rebuild an engine and learn everything along the way you need to start small. Get a junk motor for little to nothing, tear it down, rebuild it with all OEM parts. Follow the FSM word for word and see if you can get it running without any hiccups. Stop trying to jump into this fancy work when you clearly have no experience.

If you don't want to learn this way I suggest you find someone with engine building experience and learn from them. Step by step.

[FundedByGov]

This isn't the Gran Turismo parts store. If you want to rebuild an engine and learn everything along the way you need to start small. Get a junk motor for little to nothing, tear it down, rebuild it with all OEM parts. Follow the FSM word for word and see if you can get it running without any hiccups. Stop trying to jump into this fancy work when you clearly have no experience.

If you don't want to learn this way I suggest you find someone with engine building experience and learn from them. Step by step.

The building itself I have covered. I have a friend who's one of the managers at a shop in my hometown. He said he'd be fine with helping build the engine as long as I gathered all the right parts and told him how I want it done. He also said I should learn as much as I can before making any purchases... Which is what I'm striving to do. Though its just turning into a bash thread and nobody really giving explanations. My original questions weren't even attempted to be answered.

[xoxide]

KA25... the fuck?

Im not going to spend much time here, but ill save you some money...

You dont need a header, and you dont need a intake if your going KA-T.. You will need an intake, but the one you listed will not work. Same goes for the header, you will need a turbo manifold (turbo kit you have listed comes with one), normal NA header will not work. I just saved you a good chunk of money, go buy a FSM, and a few Turbo/motor books and read them.

As far as all this stage 3 bullshit talk, you need to forget about it. Start small and work your way up like stated... You seem to have little mechanical knowledge, going full steam into a full motor build is not smart. Start with a turbo kit (whether its piecing one together or wasting your money on the one listed).

You can find most of the parts your looking for on here used, much cheaper.

Lastly, on the topic of clutches, the more HP you have and thehow much you plan to abuse it the higher "stage" clutch you will need.

[FundedByGov]

KA25... the fuck?

Im not going to spend much time here, but ill save you some money...

You dont need a header, and you dont need a intake if your going KA-T.. You will need an intake, but the one you listed will not work. Same goes for the header, you will need a turbo manifold (turbo kit you have listed comes with one), normal NA header will not work. I just saved you a good chunk of money, go buy a FSM, and a few Turbo/motor books and read them.

As far as all this stage 3 bullshit talk, you need to forget about it. Start small and work your way up like stated... You seem to have little mechanical knowledge, going full steam into a full motor build is not smart. Start with a turbo kit (whether its piecing one together or wasting your money on the one listed).

You can find most of the parts your looking for on here used, much cheaper.

Lastly, on the topic of clutches, the more HP you have and thehow much you plan to abuse it the higher "stage" clutch you will need.

Very well! Thank you. The intake and header purchases were planned to be temporary till I got to the turbo. I appreciate the knowledge and input! As for starting with a turbo kit, wouldn't that put much more wear on the oem engine internals?

Thx

[mmmS13]

The stock motor when healthy will handle some boost. My block has 230k miles and is making close to 300whp. A proper tune is key.

[FundedByGov]

The stock motor when healthy will handle some boost. My block has 230k miles and is making close to 300whp. A proper tune is key.

Thank you for the input, appreciated!
Well this leaves a lot of changes to make :)

I'll definitely find some material to read to learn about rebuilding engines so I'll be ready for it later on :)

[ronny.jpn]

Don't waste your money on a NA motor header if you're going to go KA-T eventually. Total waste. Like its been stated, rebuild your to 100% stock, drive it, sell it. Do it again with more performance based parts, drive it, sell. Now, at that point buy an SR,1J/2J, RB,etc. And even then honestly idk if you personally would be ready. I have started with the single cam ka, and now restarting moving to the dual cam KA.

"stage" anything....... Stop. Please.

[FundedByGov]

Don't waste your money on a NA motor header if you're going to go KA-T eventually. Total waste. Like its been stated, rebuild your to 100% stock, drive it, sell it. Do it again with more performance based parts, drive it, sell. Now, at that point buy an SR,1J/2J, RB,etc. And even then honestly idk if you personally would be ready. I have started with the single cam ka, and now restarting moving to the dual cam KA.

"stage" anything....... Stop. Please.

So rebuilding an engine to OEM internals when OEM internals are already installed? Why not just take it apart, clean everything up, replace what can't be reused or has minor damage and build it back to OEM?
Just trying to understand the concept..

[mmmS13]

I'd say compression test your current motor and see how healthy it actually is. If results come back bad, then rebuild. If results come back good and strong, boost it.

[FundedByGov]

I'd say compression test your current motor and see how healthy it actually is. If results come back bad, then rebuild. If results come back good and strong, boost it.

Makes sense. Thanks!

[Jsal32]

I think you need to start with some sort of goals first.

-What application do you plan for the car? street? track? both?
-What kind of budget do you have?
-Are there any other things on the car that you need to address before you get into modifying your engine?

Once you've established what kind of goal you have in mind you/we can use that as a starting point. A car with some suspension work can feel and be much faster than stock and you might be content with that.... But you need to start somewhere.

So give us more info. Not what parts you want to put into the car but how you want it to respond and how you plan on driving it.

-Jose

[FundedByGov]

I think you need to start with some sort of goals first.

-What application do you plan for the car? street? track? both?
-What kind of budget do you have?
-Are there any other things on the car that you need to address before you get into modifying your engine?

Once you've established what kind of goal you have in mind you/we can use that as a starting point. A car with some suspension work can feel and be much faster than stock and you might be content with that.... But you need to start somewhere.

So give us more info. Not what parts you want to put into the car but how you want it to respond and how you plan on driving it.

-Jose

Thank you for the response Jose! I'm planning way ahead of time, I haven't even purchased the vehicle yet but when I do purchase it I'm going to look for the cleanest and most OEM.
I'm not worried about my budget, I'm patient and really don't have much I have to pay for.

Suspension is definitely on my mind. After thinking some things over I believe the first few things I'm going to purchase will be a front and rear sway bar and some coilovers. After that I'll purchase some nice light weight wheels and slap em on. Then purchase an exhaust system. From there I get a bit stuck. I'd like to get the stroker kit and have a shop do the installation but apparently I shouldn't change the internals at all. Sooo... Compression test and if its all good and running strong.. Turbo kit?

I'm not quite sure. I have plenty of time to plan, I'm going to be purchasing the vehicle towards the end of this year or beginning to mid next year. I'd just prefer to have a solid plan before jumping into it.

[mmmS13]

Since you want to go turbo, you dont really need a stroker kit. The Ka will already make a good amount of torque with a turbo. :hsdance: Also its not that you shouldnt change your internals but they have been proven (when in good condition) to be used up to 350hp.


Since you havent bought the car yet make lists about setups. I made about 8 or 9 lists with different setups and budgets before I ordered a single turbo part.

[Jsal32]

Here's a good resource and start for KA turbo builds:

www.ka-t.org :: View Forum - KA-T Chat (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=1)

There you'll find a plethora of information and people that have already went turbo on their KA's.

-Jose

[FundedByGov]

Since you want to go turbo, you dont really need a stroker kit. The Ka will already make a good amount of torque with a turbo. :hsdance: Also its not that you shouldnt change your internals but they have been proven (when in good condition) to be used up to 350hp.


Since you havent bought the car yet make lists about setups. I made about 8 or 9 lists with different setups and budgets before I ordered a single turbo part.

So basically I just need an exhaust and a turbo kit along with a good tune? What about fuel injectors, pump, and rail? Would it benefit to get them with just a turbo?


Here's a good resource and start for KA turbo builds:

www.ka-t.org :: View Forum - KA-T Chat (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=1)

There you'll find a plethora of information and people that have already went turbo on their KA's.

-Jose

Thank you very much! I'll definitely take a look at it. :)

[fliprayzin240sx]

Fuck a stroker kit. Rebuild the bottom end with low compression pistons, turbo kit, bigger injectors, fmic, Z32 MAF, bigger fuel pump and a good tuning ECU. Should be all you need for the most part.

[mmmS13]

Since the site is back up this is a good read.

www.ka-t.org :: View topic - Sticky: DOHC Turbo For Dummies (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6263)

[godsmack]

If I were you and you really want to rebuild the motor. I wouldn't go with the stroker kit. Like mentioned above make a couple lists. My first list would be to build the motor N/A and that list would be for if it would stay N/A for that motor. Like high comp pistons and the like.

Then I'd make a list for a turbo motor but with no turbo included. Which would be a more mild closer to stock build with forged internals with the possibility of going boosted later.

Next make a couple of different turbo lists. Based on lag and power. Pick the turbos according to where you would want to see the boost hit. Then research and with each of those turbos add in what header, downpipe, injector, fuel management, etc. you'll need to run with them.

Once you make all lists price them out then when you're ready and have the car and saved money then time to see which list your budget can afford. But with what you said earlier I would def. upgrade other stuff on the car itself before going to the motor. And I wouldn't waste the money on sway bars. There's more important things to consider before upgrading them.