Anyone try these gaskets?

[VinceDude]

Engine Gasket Kit Nissan Silvia SR20DET S13 (http://www.yonaka.com/Engine_Gasket_Kit_Nissan_Silvia_SR20DET_S13_p/ymgk009.htm)
or
Cometic Streetpro Engine Gasket Kit 87.5mm Head Gasket S13 SR20DET (http://www.frsport.com/Cometic-Streetpro-Engine-Gasket-Kit-87-5mm-Head-Gasket-S13-SR20DET_p_16678.html)


I'm reluctant to go with anything else other than the factory set because I'm worried about things not fitting where they should. But these sets claim to be for high performance applications where some of the paper gaskets out of the oem set have been replaced with either metal, leather type material, or a blend of the two. Are these sets worth the extra cost or should I just go with the oem one? I'm building my engine for drifting so it's gonna be driven hard on the track I just wanted to hear some feedback from the awesome zilvians! And yes, I know they're just gaskets lol. I might just go with the oem ones unless someone on here had some awesome story about how great their experience was with one of these sets.

[Sileighty_85]

get Actual OEM parts for half the price

NissanParts.cc - Your #1 Source for OEM Parts and Accessories (http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=1110#3331)

[Mikester]

Yup. Can't go wrong with OEM Nissan. If you are replacing the HG, OEM gasket & ARP studs is the way to go.

[VinceDude]

Yup, I thought so. Thanks guys.

@sil80 85 thanks for the link.

[VinceDude]

get Actual OEM parts for half the price

NissanParts.cc - Your #1 Source for OEM Parts and Accessories (http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/?section=1110#3331)

For some reason that link wouldn't let me check out just kept emptying out my cart by itself lol So I went to this site which actually sold it for a bit cheaper.

Here's the link if anyone is looking for some gasket sets and this is the cheapest I've seen them go for online. Shipping was amazingly quick btw.
S13 SR20DET Full Gasket Set - 10101-50F25 - Nissan (http://www.nissanraceshop.com/product/330041/sr20det-full-gasket-1010150f25)

Showed up to my door like this. Nissanraceshop.com guys check em out! I'm going to them for all my OEM needs from now on.
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k632/asvinceasitgets/S13%20Build/121106_0000.jpg
And no the box wasn't really small that's just a giant pen.

[Mikester]

I get pretty much all of my OEM replacement parts thru them, or West Covina. Always seems to be a better deal than anyone else, and their customer service is excellent.

Glad you chose OEM Nissan- Paper or not, their gaskets are designed for longevity. Use ARP studs, get a good tune and you should be GTG for a long time to come.

[revert]

I always thought it was better to use a layered metal gasket when ur going up on boost on the sr

[Mikester]

I always thought it was better to use a layered metal gasket when ur going up on boost on the sr

That's a common viewpoint. An SR20 aluminum head & block will ever-so-slightly shift/flex under load... Therefore, putting multi-layer steel between them, which doesn't have the same flexing properties is not a good idea.

Also, an MLS gasket may create a good initial seal, but it does not compress the same way the OEM gasket does... which means that if you don't have the deck polished to a near-flawless finish, it will not be able to conform to minor imperfections the way the OEM gasket does.

Finally- and to me very importantly, the HG is designed to blow vs crack the block or head. AN MLS gasket may very well stand up to a greater amount of force- but remember... that force has to go somewhere; and if it can't blow the gasket, it will either go thru the head or thru the block... or both.

I have used MLS gaskets in the past without incident; so don't think I am completely against them... I sort of "inherited my current view from a guy in Okinawa who is way smarter than I will ever be... and if you decide to use one, you need to have the front cover machined to be even with the deck otherwise there will be a weak spot fwd of the #1 combustion chamber...

By the way, it is important to realize that in addition to having the best seal possible between the block & head; it's the tune that really makes the difference.

[VinceDude]

That's a common viewpoint. An SR20 aluminum head & block will ever-so-slightly shift/flex under load... Therefore, putting multi-layer steel between them, which doesn't have the same flexing properties is not a good idea.

Also, an MLS gasket may create a good initial seal, but it does not compress the same way the OEM gasket does... which means that if you don't have the deck polished to a near-flawless finish, it will not be able to conform to minor imperfections the way the OEM gasket does.

Finally- and to me very importantly, the HG is designed to blow vs crack the block or head. AN MLS gasket may very well stand up to a greater amount of force- but remember... that force has to go somewhere; and if it can't blow the gasket, it will either go thru the head or thru the block... or both.

I have used MLS gaskets in the past without incident; so don't think I am completely against them... I sort of "inherited my current view from a guy in Okinawa who is way smarter than I will ever be... and if you decide to use one, you need to have the front cover machined to be even with the deck otherwise there will be a weak spot fwd of the #1 combustion chamber...

By the way, it is important to realize that in addition to having the best seal possible between the block & head; it's the tune that really makes the difference.

Good to know! Thank you, sir. I'm going to build this car for track use so it'll probably be a good idea to go with the MLS gasket later on. My SR is stock for now as far as I know the only thing done to it was the t28 swap. I don't think I'll need anything too fancy ATM.

[codyace]

I'm not sure how anyone can suggest something away from a quality MLS gasket for our cars. Cosworth or Apexi regardless. a Head/block job is only 100-150 dollars out of pocket, and I call that cheap insurance when using a real gasket.

To me, the marginal detonation resistance (even on a stock junk ecu) is enough to go with an MLS gasket.

[Sileighty_85]

I'm not sure how anyone can suggest something away from a quality MLS gasket for our cars. Cosworth or Apexi regardless. a Head/block job is only 100-150 dollars out of pocket, and I call that cheap insurance when using a real gasket.

To me, the marginal detonation resistance (even on a stock junk ecu) is enough to go with an MLS gasket.

But this one guy from Okinawa is obliviously smarter than all the Engineers from Tomei, HKS, or Apexi....

[Mikester]

But this one guy from Okinawa is obliviously smarter than all the Engineers from Tomei, HKS, or Apexi....

I don't recall claiming that in my post anywhere. But since you were kind enough to bless this thread with your wisdom, here is where "that one guy from Okinawa" is coming from:

QUOTE:

SR20's and MLS Gaskets (http://blacklinux.com/innersanctum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3186#p51944)

http://blacklinux.com/innersanctum/styles/SummerFun/imageset/icon_post_target_unread.gif (http://blacklinux.com/innersanctum/viewtopic.php?p=51944#p51944)by MJR (http://blacklinux.com/innersanctum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=159) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:52 am
Seems like I'm always getting asked about this, so we'll rehash it:

In this picture (pic not shown, but you can do this at your liesure), the depth micrometer is placed on the front cover (oil pump) and is showing the distance to the block deck. It's a little fuzzy, but the reading is 0.20 mm.

That's right. On all SR20's the front cover sticks up 0.20 mm above the deck. This is designed in for additional crush around the chain so it doesn't leak oil later in life. It's very obvious if you drag your finger across the seam.

Now, can someone please explain how a gasket that can not compress, e.g. MLS, can have a better seal around the #1 cylinder than a stock gasket?

It can't. It's impossible. The gasket can not compress, so it leaves a weak spot in the seal in front of the #1 cylinder.

Additionaly, it flexes the head, creating wear spots in the cam journals. Seen it time after time. Seriously, I can't remember the times I've "fixed" leaking MLS gasket problems on SR's with a stock gasket.

This is black and white; not open to interpretation. If you've installed a MLS gasket in your SR without machining the block and cover together, you've made the combustion seal weaker. People try to tell me they blew a gasket on a car that had 100,000 km and swapped ot for a MLS and it fixed the problem. Therefore, the MLS must be better... Here's some news: Every bad head gasket on earth that's changed with a new one also fixes the problem... Changing the old gasket solved the problem; MLS had nothing to do with it.

I've made over 700 hp using ARP studs and a stock gasket.

Head studs and no detonation is the key to making the head stay planted.

Stock gaskets use a closed steel/stainless steel ring around the cylinder. Same thing or better in some cases.

Other engine gaskets don't use this steel sealing ring, they're just metal-core grafoil. Metal gaskets work better here. Expansion rates are much different, so over time the grafoil gaskets will wear and start to leak. Time being defined as 100,000+ km. MLS gaskets won't wear as parts work against eachother.

That said, the only sealing agent for most MLS gaskets is a micro-thin layer of rubberized paint, so the gasket will start to leak coolant and oil after time where the stock grafoil gasket won't. Toyota MLS gaskets have rubber seals around the leak prone areas of their MLS gaskets.

Another thing is that stock gaskets crush easier than the steel bead around the cylinder. This provides a tighter seal than all but the Tomei stopper-type MLS gaskets. Most stock MLS have stoppers, as well. It's a raised area of about 0.1mm around the cylinder to provide a better clamp. The vast majority of aftermarket MLS gaskets are just a shim with a bead rolled into it. A stock gasket has a better seal than this.

Something you never read about: To properly run a MLS gasket, the machined surface needs to be almost mirror smooth. Nobody does this, so it's a downgrade to put a MLS gasket in any engine that hasn't has both surfaces machined. No place on Oki has the ability to achieve this surface.

END QUOTE

However, places in America do have that ability. For instance, if you like Cometic (as many of us do), you can call them and they'll give you a roughness # for which you need to machine the surfaces to for it to work most effectively with their gasket.

To be completely fair, guys like me do our research, buy up parts; then drop them off to guys like you (SR/RB gurus) to put them together & make the magic happen... and we rely heavily on your experience and knowledge to help us make informed choices as to along the way- So don't think that I am saying that I have anything up on you whatsoever. However, to level the playing field a bit, you and I both know that average 20-25yr old kid is only going to read what you & the many other smart guys here have to say, go out and buy an MLS gasket because they think it is "better," install it themselves or pay someone to do it as cheaply as possible; then wonder why it blew it <10,000mi later without even giving consideration to what it takes to really make them an "upgrade."

I've weighed the options & made my choice (stock HG/ARP studs). Not trying to sway the person who asked the question or the OP in any way shape or form- just tried to be friendly/courteous and give out some additional factors to consider.

[jr_ss]

As long as the deck/ oil pump cover have been machined together and are perfectly even/flat to each other, then there is no issue with an MLS headgasket unless a Cometic comes into play. I've never seen a Cometic headgasket seal/last at all on SR's.

With that being said, a brand new OEM headgasket with ARP's will do the job just find "if" you are sub 400whp. If you're going into your motor to have work done, there is no excuse not to have the deck/oil pump cover surfaced together and run a MLS gasket.

[Sileighty_85]

By this guy saying MLHG are worse than stock HG's then yeah that sounds like he's smarter than the engineers

weird my 400hp SR has held up fine for the past 5 years of DD'n and monthly drifting on a MLHG, even when my SR needs a retune and registering a Knock of 80's @ 21psi, engine has never skipped a beat.

you mention that Stock HG's seal the imperfections on the block and head surfaces better than MLHG's... yes true compared to a bare MLHG, but there is this stuff called Copper Spray that helps MLHG seal better. Yes it works, cuz iam using it on mine and beat the shit out of it and has held up fine.

Pretty much all quality MLHG have a "Steel Bead" or Fire Ring as its called, Cometic is the only one that I know of that doesnt use one.

Yeah having Zero knock is key for engine longevity but i guarantee you if his 700 hp stock H/G hicups that H/G will pop.

Id rather be prepared for the worst then hoping for the best

[Mikester]

I have heard nothing bad about Cometic gaskets... but again, I am an average Joe, not a professional builder. Also, I only used them as an example.

My current build is for 400-450whp range; all quality parts (should have the actual numbers in the next month or two)... fair weather garage queen, will only see the 1/4mi once a month at best and driven hard on backroads here/there. If the stock HG blows, I will pay the extra bucks for a Tomei gasket, have it decked accordingly & call it a lesson learned. BTW, I am not "claiming" anything; and I am not here to start an argument that has prolly already taken place many times on this site.

[slw240sx]

i have used dozens of cometics over the years, The only time i have not seen one seal is when a customer wanted to handle his machine work him self. he didnt machine the oil pump and block together, just the block. leaked on 1 until we had the front cover machined down.

[EsChassisLove]

I never had issues with my Apexi MHG. Well, not until I sleeved the block. But before, no problems and I even hit 116 counts of knock once according to my PFC.

But then again I was only at 234whp 7psi during that time.

[Mikester]

^^ APEXi's are known great gaskets; which I would go so far as to say is why bigboy companies like Mazworx use them & them in their own cars as well as their customer builds.

But it still begs the question as to whether or not it's the gasket material or the tune that makes the true difference for the average daily driver/weekend warrior. << rhetorical, obviously not going to be answered today lol!

If I were going balls-out on the track all the time and had the money to replace heads/blocks/internals when they become suspect, crack or let go completely... OR even knew how to inspect/measure or replace the stuff competently, then I'd use MLS hands down. But I don't; and quite frankly, I'd rather pay for some machine work, a new tune and replace a gasket that is supposed to blow when things go awry vs. shell out a few grand for another full build. This view may very well change depending on how this build goes...

There is nothing saying that an OEM HG w/good studs can't effectively handle the same high knock numbers (shitty tune) for a short period of time until getting a retune. At high hp level, of course it will pop before MLS... but let's face it- [average like me] people who see high knock and then continue to hammer the throttle thinking that their MLS gasket is going to somehow resuce their engines may seriously want to reconsider that choice & turn down the boost until they can get it back to the pros for a checkup.

I guess this is kinda turning into a dead horse, sorry.

[EsChassisLove]

Anyone know if there is a way to get a 87mm OEM gasket? Do people just bore out the OEM 86mm?