greddy E-manage ultimate/engine management systems????

[95RB]

ok so i was looking around for an engine management system and i came across the greddy E-manage ultimate does anyone know anything about it...electronics isnt really my field so any advice on engine management systems would be awesome thanks.

[Kingtal0n]

SEARCH!

jk, dont search. ask here and people that are bored will be happy to explain (again) for the (improper integral) for x=1 to infinity times pie

Electronic "piggy back" devices, such as, SAFC, E-manage, F-ConV, EMS, etc...

ANYTHING that works with the OEM ecu to adjust fuel or spark...

Is a BAND-AID. It might get the job done, but it also might fall off and/or ooze blood everywhere.

dont ooze blood everywhere. Dont use a piggyback.


Ok, seriously, I get to troll you a little due to the nature of the question.
More info (less troll):

An E-manage or SAFC type of piggyback fuel adjuster modifies the input MAF or MAP voltage (which is generally 0-5v) to adjust the amount of fuel the ECU injects. This would work perfectly fine 100% of the time if IGNITION TIMING was not also affected, and if fuel MAPS were perfectly linear.

Fuel maps are not linear. Ignition timing is affected. A piggyback is a great thing for a MINOR adjustment in fuel, but not for actual TUNING. to properly tune an engine you will need full control over the ECU, such as with a Stand Alone computer (power FC).

Examples of when a AFC (air flow converter) is OK to use:
I have a 2.0L SR redtop engine with 370cc injectors and a T-25 turbo.
I upgrade the turbo to a T-28 and install slightly larger injectors (440CC).
It is OK to use a SAFC to compensate for these larger injectors in the mean time while I am waiting for my true stand alone to arrive. I also retard the timing at the CAS a few degrees in the mean time just in case.
Therefore, the AFC is a band-aid, while i wait for a real tuning solution to arrive.



Examples of when NOT to use a AFC:
I have a 2.0L SR redtop engine with 370cc injectors and a T-25 turbo.
I upgrade the turbo to a GT2871r and intend to produce 400RWHP.
The injectors are now 740CC. IT IS NOT OK to use a AFC to adjust the OEM ecu to work with these new large injectors!
I can dial them in to the point that the engine might run and drive around.... but if I produce any boost pressure, there is an enormous risk of blowing the engine due to too much timing and/or lean spots that are undetectable due to the MAF's non-linear voltage.

MORE info:
A maf sensor uses a PARABOLIC voltage curve, that is, A trinomial such as ax^2+bx+c is used to determine the airflow vs voltage output.
therefore, for EXAMPLE, If we shift the voltage from 5V to 4.5V, we might tell the ECU to inject 4% less fuel.
But if we shift the voltage from 5V to 4V, we tell the ECU to inject 11% less fuel.
and we shift the voltage from 5V to 3.5V, we tell the ECU to inject 23% less fuel.

Do you see how the voltage is NON linear as expressed with FUEL? A small voltage increase from 3V to 3.5V can be a very large increase in the amount of air the engine is moving, but a shift from 1.5V to 2.0V could be a very small increase in airflow. It is primarily for this reason that AFC do not offer true tuning solutions, are are merely bandaids.

[Almasxxx]

I have also greddy e manage ultimate but i buy standalone because better and remove maf :)

[Kingtal0n]

ten years ago the SAFC was all the rage. Slap some 550cc injectors and a Top mount T3 turbo on any random redtop and for cheap you have 350 horsepower to the wheels all day.

All day, but not all year. Notice none of those engines are still around...

[95RB]

so basically if i want to gain a cheap 50 or so hp i could use that but run a risk of blowing my engine and if i want more than that go stand alone? and i know 50 wont blow the enging just the first number to pop into my head....now i know i want to go to the stand alont but right now its hard to save up the money for that and i kinda wanna make a quick safe gain what would be the best way to do so? and then what kind of stand alone should i get for an rb25 when i get the money to get one? brands? models?

[59bhp]

the emanage and the safc are incomparable,

the safc is garbage and so limited its bordering on useless,

the capabilities of the emanage ulitmate are huge, they are the closest thing your going to get to a stand alone system. They even surpass the power fc in some aspects as the pfc is really quite old now (for example the resolution of the tables is slightly better in the emanage ultimate) and are about as powerfull as the likes of nistune etc

Also it is possible to run an emanage ultimate without the maf using the speed/density function. You also can use it for launch control etc

The emanage ultimate will be MORE than adequate for most peoples bolt on upgrades, however when going for serious power then as always a stand alone is a much better option.

I have seen first hand many sr20's running above 400bhp using an Emanage ultimate with very smooth fuelling and power curves.

I have no experience with any other piggy back ecu so cannot comment.

[95RB]

i plan on doing a fairly serious build on this thing

[slider2828]

I had the blue and my friend had a ultimate.... Both junk both blew engines cause it won't control timing accurately....

Not controlling timing accurate = blown engine....

Don't DO IT!!! For teh same price you can get a PFC. Done and Done

[59bhp]

I had the blue and my friend had a ultimate.... Both junk both blew engines cause it won't control timing accurately....

Not controlling timing accurate = blown engine....

Don't DO IT!!! For teh same price you can get a PFC. Done and Done

that is not the fault of the unit, that is another issue all together with your map.

and the power fc has got to be the WORST out of the stand alone ecu's

[Kingtal0n]

and the power fc has got to be the WORST out of the stand alone ecu's

Ive used PFC to tune many cars, never had a problem with it, always been able to make the vehicles run like OEM, ranging from 500 horsepower SR20's to 800rwhp RB26's All running perfectly fine to this day.

Power FC might not have many bells and whistles, but it gets the job done, if you are competent.



and the power fc has got to be the most basic out of the stand alone ecu's
fixed

[59bhp]

Ive used PFC to tune many cars, never had a problem with it, always been able to make the vehicles run like OEM, ranging from 500 horsepower SR20's to 800rwhp RB26's All running perfectly fine to this day.

Power FC might not have many bells and whistles, but it gets the job done, if you are competent.


fixed

okay my apologies, this is 100% true, I was being defensive and over simplified. The power fc is more than up to the job of mapping a car.

Just lets not discount the Ultimate based on user error :)

[95RB]

ok so what im getting from all this is if i want to avoid user error and not have the risk of blowing my engine i should just get a stand alone and basically tune from scratch right? if thats the case what kind of ecu should i get? brand? model?

[NickIsAZero]

I've been running the Emanage ultimate with quite some time. Ran it with a stock t25 and even a 30r a while ago. Has a lot of great features providing your tuner knows how to use them. They also offer a MAP conversion that simply plugs in, no rewiring required. I'm debating on selling mine since I'm back to a stock setup...
Emanage Ultimate with original packaging & warranty
Conversion harness for plug/play
MAP sensor & harness
$650

[Bentleyness]

i been looking into emanage stuff but god dam pricey! i like the whole map idea tho, wish they can come up with a plug n play conversion for rom tunes or basic oem ecu

[Tantwoforty]

Emanage sucks unless you get the ultmate with ignition harness ect and even then its pretty crappy, its just a mega safc.
Its got some nice features but overall its just a gimmicky awkward piggyback.
I bought one, tryed it, hated it, sold it and bought a romtune
Save yourself the trouble and avoid it, romtune or standalone.

[slider2828]

Really? Have you even tuned a emanage or a PFC?

WHen you cannot accurately control timing.... Its a piggyback +/- timing based on a base map of the ecu. Thats what piggybacks do.

If you cannot alter the main timing table and have absolute values instead of fussing around +/- of a table, its pretty fail....

Sure PFC is the most basic, but its a better system than the emanage. If you want to spend more and get a better system, then go get a haltech, motech, or an AEM.....

Get over it, emanage is a piggyback system....

If you don't want to hear what other people say when they tell you about the system based on experience of multiple tuners and users, then DON'T ASK.

[ShadowMan]

I'm running the PFC and my fc datalogit should be here soon, which enables the pfc to be a bit more up to date as far as tuning goes or so I hope. At the end of the day, it's really about who is tuning the engine. You could have a motec m800, but if the tuner is incompetent it'll run like shit or blow up. On the other hand some one with a serious set of skills could take minimal gear and have you smiling with every press of the gas pedal. Find some local reputable tuners in your area and see what products they are experienced on or recommend. Doesn't make sense to buy a power fc if there is only one tuner around and he is an AEM guru.

[Kingtal0n]

Doesn't make sense to buy a power fc if there is only one tuner around and he is an AEM guru.

Heres one thing you may not know... Engine Stand Alone computers all use the same basic idea to tune your engine- numbers go into a set of maps that is cut up by breakpoints that dictate timing and fuel!

ALL stand alone ECU.

One day, my friend brings me his AEM SR20 to tune. I have NEVER tuned an AEM before... but I had that thing plugged in and tuned fine, even had a nice crispy edged map worked out for it, the same day. Knowledge of computer systems and how ECU will interpret sensor data, knowing what the numbers mean, and knowing enough about internal combustion engines, is all it really takes to tune anything... no "experience" necessary... although it does speed things up, it is not required if you know how to tune in general.

This is the actual dyno from that day
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/draglarry/alex_2871R/alexfinal.jpg

Now, keep in mind, I specialize in street car daily drivers, as this was. So I knew, for instance, that at maximum power potential (350rwhp was expected... and delivered) I will be using about 80% of the 550cc injectors provided fuel pressure was set like OEM or less (goal). So on my injector duty cycle chart for the map, you consider the amount of time required to fire and injector is dwindling by 7000rpm to somewhere less than 12 milliseconds (.0012 seconds) I had the wide open throttle portion tuned before I even turned on the computer because my final basemap line would read about 80% duty cycle. Doesnt matter, AEM,PFC,Haltech, etc.... they are all going to report around 80% duty cycle (12ms of fuel perhaps less) around peak power maximum rpm. Notice the headroom of the fuel system for error at maximum RPM. 10:1! plenty of injector, they dont act funny or stop working when you push them to 90% or 95% duty cycle.