Supreme court's decision and Obamacare

[Origin]

So what is your opinion on whether or not the Supreme Court will or will not overturn Obamacare tomorrow? Why?

[ineedone]

So what is your opinion on whether or not the Supreme Court will or will not overturn Obamacare tomorrow? Why?

Whatever it is, it will be a total diss on God, Christianity, Conservatives, and White people. It will probably read something like... This law is constitutional blah, blah, blah, black people can now eat white children blah, blah, blah Christmas will now be called Shariamas blah, blah, blah All republicans are now legally deemed to be white (even if black) and considered southern, stupid, and only competent enough to own a lifted ford F-150 with truck nuts blah, blah, blah. Probably something about history. President is Black. Then change the word Muslim to Mooslim. Then end by creating a federal holiday that celebrates this decision every year by giving everyone free Froyo.

[Origin]

Whatever it is, it will be a total diss on God, Christianity, Conservatives, and White people. It will probably read something like... This law is constitutional blah, blah, blah, black people can now eat white children blah, blah, blah Christmas will now be called Shariamas blah, blah, blah All republicans are now legally deemed to be white (even if black) and considered southern, stupid, and only competent enough to own a lifted ford F-150 with truck nuts blah, blah, blah. Probably something about history. President is Black. Then change the word Muslim to Mooslim. Then end by creating a federal holiday that celebrates this decision every year by giving everyone free Froyo.

Are you saying the Liberals will cry and whine no matter what happens?

[ineedone]

Are you saying the Liberals will cry and whine no matter what happens?

Well, I don't want you to cry. You have it hard enough as it is.

[Origin]

I am not sure what you are getting at, what do you mean?

[ineedone]

I am not sure what you are getting at, what do you mean?

Maybe this will put it in some context.

They're All Gonna Laugh At You! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/l7sc2va94TE)

[Origin]

Anyone else that isn't Arkham Asylum MVP that cares to put forth any input?

[ineedone]

Anyone else that isn't Arkham Asylum MVP that cares to put forth any input?

How will you know if it is not just me with a different screen name? Maybe you are on a forum with just 1 other person with a bunch of different personalities... mind = blown.

Did you just try a comeback to the most classic Adam Sandler clip ever with a video game? Dude, Bro... Bro, Dude, Step your game up and get on my level.

[ineedone]

In case you are trying to read the opinion. The mandate survives as a tax.

[BustedS13]

i kind of hope they do overturn it. I want universal healthcare, not this bastardized worthless crap.

[ineedone]

i kind of hope they do overturn it. I want universal healthcare, not this bastardized worthless crap.

Single payer is the only way to go... but... that is a political question. Legally, entire ACA upheld, medicare provision (limiting funds to states) is narrowly read. CJ Roberts authors opinion.

[Phlip]

Supreme Court upholds health care law - NBC Politics (http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/28/12457822-supreme-court-upholds-health-care-law?lite)

and...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/27/top-5-falsehoods-about-health-care-law/

[Origin]

This was the biggest hoax ever played on Americans. All it is is just a tax. A huge one. What you get for being stupid on not questioning the media. (Not directed at anyone)

[ineedone]

This was the biggest hoax ever played on Americans. All it is is just a tax. A huge one. What you get for being stupid on not questioning the media. (Not directed at anyone)

I do not get your post. What was the hoax? Was the ACA conceived at Area 51? Did we not land on the moon? FEMA DEATH CAMP TRAILERS? What would questioning the media have done in regards to whether or not the ACA passed constitutional muster? (Directed at you, Origin - just in case you were wondering).

[i<3chicken]

I think the universal health care is unconstitutional and if it passes I feel like Obama can twist his way to corrupt America however he wants

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

[ineedone]

I think the universal health care is unconstitutional and if it passes I feel like Obama can twist his way to corrupt America however he wants

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

What about universal healthcare would be unconstitutional? Assuming you believe social security, medicare, medicaid are all constitutional, what would be the difference?

How would having a universal healthcare program allow the president to corrupt America?

Either way, the ACA is not universal healthcare so, you do not have to worry about universal healthcare letting Obama twist his dagger of corruption into the sweet innocent heart of young virgin America.

[Origin]

I want everyone to have healthcare as well, but we can't pay taxes for underachievers bills. We all know how many people are "working" the system. Until that stops, this can never be realized the way they say they want it to.



The only thing that this really means is that we are post-constitutional. That doesn't matter anymore in every day needs. Now what you will see is the government controlling your lives under the guise of a tax. That's the way in, and it's here for now.

[ineedone]

I want everyone to have healthcare as well, but we can't pay taxes for underachievers bills. We all know how many people are "working" the system. Until that stops, this can never be realized the way they say they want it to.



The only thing that this really means is that we are post-constitutional. That doesn't matter anymore in every day needs. Now what you will see is the government controlling your lives under the guise of a tax. That's the way in, and it's here for now.

How much peyote do you do a day? Post-constitutional? what does that even mean hahaha:bowdown::bowdown::w00t::bowdown::bowdown:

[Origin]

Man, you are troubled. I seriously hope you have a job. If you do, go there. Now.

[Phlip]

Man, you are troubled. I seriously hope you have a job. If you do, go there. Now.

How about you answer his question instead

[ineedone]

Man, you are troubled. I seriously hope you have a job. If you do, go there. Now.

I told you, my job is to get answers out of you. Just one. It is nearly impossible but god willing, one day, I will get an answer! (or ask Phlip to make a sticky with every question someone has asked you which you have not answered)

How about you answer his question instead

Phlip, can we make a sticky called "Questions for Origin" It be just like other ones in the tech forums, just with no answers... ever.

[Phlip]

Phlip, can we make a sticky called "Questions for Origin" It be just like other ones in the tech forums, just with no answers... ever.

Damn that, my vacation technically ends at 5pm tomorrow, then the weekend is my birthday and it is back to work on Monday

[1 88 U]

If you have healthcare already then no tax,
If you are too poor to afford healthcare you qualify for Medicade or subsidies help to purchase a plan,
If you can afford healthcare but choose not to purchase a plan then you pay a tax penalty for sucking my tax payer money when your stupid ass runs to the ER without insurance.

[Phlip]

Universal health coverage by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country)

Sudan is still an option for those offended by the Supreme Court's decision

[1 88 U]

Universal health coverage by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country)

Sudan is still an option for those offended by the Supreme Court's decision

It's funny that the ACA is basically an insurance lobby/republican answer to universal healthcare being pushed in the 90's. Fucking Mitt Romney passed this shit as Gov of Mass. but now they want to pretend this is socialism. Fucking dense dishonest assholes.

[ESmorz]

Some light reading anyone who wishes to comment on the topic should be required to read so we might as a whole be able to negate some misinformation and partisanship that this particular policy inherently will bring with it.

Okay, explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:

What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

(Note: Page numbers listed in citations are the page numbers within the actual document, not the page numbers of the PDF file)

Already in effect:


It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices) ( Citation: An entire section of the bill, called Title VII, is devoted to this, starting on page 747 )


It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less) ( Citation: Page 216, sec. 2501 )


It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )


It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )


It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them. ( Citation: Page 30, sec. 1101, Page 45, sec. 2704, and Page 46, sec. 2702 )


It forbids insurance companies from discriminating based on a disability, or because they were the victim of domestic abuse in the past (yes, insurers really did deny coverage for that) ( Citation: Page 47, sec. 2705 )


It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.


It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )


It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )


Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26. ( Citation: Page 15, sec. 2714 )


No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704 and Page 57, sec. 1255 )


Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.


People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend. ( Citation: Page 379, sec. 3301 )


Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )


Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).


Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down. ( Citation: Page 42, sec. 2719 )


Anti-fraud funding is increased and new ways to stop fraud are created. ( Citation: Page 699, sec. 6402 )


Medicare extends to smaller hospitals. ( Citation: Starting on page 344, the entire section "Part II" seems to deal with this )


Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.


Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly. ( Citation: Page 492, sec. 4202 )


A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: Home | HealthCare.gov (http://www.healthcare.gov/) ). ( Citation: Page 36, sec. 1103 )


A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness by paying half the cost of the investment. (Note - this program was temporary. It already ended) ( Citation: Page 830, sec. 9023 )


A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers. ( Citation: Page 22, sec. 1101 )


A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9003 )


Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9002 )


Any new health plans must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2713 )

1/1/2013
If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners. ( Citation: Page 818, sec. 9015 )

1/1/2014

This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.


No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704, Page 46, sec. 2701, and Page 57, sec. 1255 )


If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it. (Note: On 6/28/12, the Supreme Court ruled that this is Constitutional, as long as it's considered a tax on the uninsured and not a penalty for not buying insurance... nitpicking about wording, mostly, but the long and short of it is, it looks like this is accepted by the courts) ( Citation: Page 145, sec. 5000A, and here is the actual court ruling for those who wish to read it. )

Question: What determines whether or not I can afford the mandate? Will I be forced to pay for insurance I can't afford?

Answer: There are all kinds of checks in place to keep you from getting screwed. Kaiser actually has a webpage with a pretty good rundown on it, if you're worried about it. You can see it here.

Okay, have we got that settled? Okay, moving on...


Small businesses get some tax credits for two years. (It looks like this is specifically for businesses with 25 or fewer employees) ( Citation: Page 138, sec. 1421 )


Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.


Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )


Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers. ( Citation: Page 62, sec. 1302 )


Cut some Medicare spending


Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them. ( Citation: Page 801, sec. 9005 )


Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.


Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen. ( Citation: Page 81, sec. 1312 )


A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.


A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.


A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.


The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015
Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017
If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers). ( Citation: Page 98, sec. 1332 )

2018


All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).


A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020
The elimination of the "Medicare gap"

.

Aaaaand that's it right there.

The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.

Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.

[lewisfk]

Wow, some of you make me question why I serve in the military. The shit you type is beyond me!

There are three things we need to figure out as a country!

1: HOW TO RAISE REVENUE! You cant fight a war without money!

2: Fix our schools! Our education system is piss poor.

Third: Alternative fuel source! I.e. hydrogen, electric, wind, and solar. We are slaves to foreign oil.

The healthcare bill being upheld is great, but more can be done. I spent the last eleven years of my life working in the medical field and ive seen it all. Free healthcare is a right for all Americans, enjoy it and stop all the damn complaining!

[TheWolf]

As an RN. It would be great if this wide world rosy picture existed. But it doesn't. About 1 out of every 4 people that come into the ER though, actually need some type of medical care that's not based around stupidity. Sure x patient needs care because he was using dirty needles to inject drugs into various body parts and one abscessed but that's based on stupid. Taking care of grandma but then dropping her off at the hospital for "COPD exacerbation" because you need a vacation. To the random dude who is dropped off from a cab with a note saying "I'm confused and have no idea who I am but I'm on the following 5 meds". All these people perpetually shit on my day and you know what they all believe.

"Obama is goin' to give me FREE health care."

Not subsidized health care, not a tax credit to purchase a high deductible plan from some state managed pool of insurers. Free unicorn magic unlimited health care. They have no idea what a deductible is, how to pick a plan, much less ever purchased something like that. They can't rummage up $20 to buy the pills much less cover a $1000 deductible. So what is it going to FIX really? The message that the administration sends out is so far off from reality that it's a joke. Private doctors are going to get copays up front and the poor are going to be shut out of care by docs with copay after copay. So what are they going to do? Go back to the same thing they've done for their whole life. Go to the ER because they must be treated.

Either create a two tier system with gov't funded docs/hospitals (VA style) and allow ER's to turn people away that are not critical to those systems or socialize the whole thing. Don't "insure" people who have never had insurance and are unable to understand the nuances of it. Many of them have a loose grasp on basic concepts such as why smoking (crack, pot, cigarettes) will cause irritation of lung diseases. They are not mentally fit enough to understand what a copay is and what determines a specialist vs a doctor and why they have to goto a specific lab. Minds will be blown.

So they'll go on medicaid roles. Great. Most people think that's a magic card for the poor for health care. No there's like 4 medicaid insurance programs each with their own copays, nuances, etc.

Now policy is coming down and busting our stones because they don't want to be held liable for anything post visit because uncle sam will not pay for it, so we have to document 2x the crap as normal.

Cliffs. It would be great if black jesus gave you free health care, but he didn't. You got more taxes, and more forms to fill out, more money out of your pocket and made my job harder. Thanks.

[h2v7]

patriot act 2 yallll

[Phlip]

patriot act 2 yallll

Care to elaborate?

[usdm180sx]

I sell health insurance. This is NOT the way I want to gather new clients. BUT, if you want the best plans and rates, call me maybe?

[Phlip]

I work for a medical lab, who will be called upon to do the lab work no matter WHO the fuck is paying for it.

My issue is for medical offices to stop being so fucking incompetent, for billing and insurance companies to stop making EVERY LITTLE FUCKING LITTLE THING the patient's fault, and for the best thing for the general populace and their overall health and ease of service.

[S14_kouki504]

I am completely against it. It doesn't do anything for me to lower my medical costs. it only taxes me for the idiots who are too lazy to stop sucking off the government and get a decent job and/or education. I have yet to see any of the "Hope and Change" that Obama promised the idiots that voted for him back in 2008. healthcare will never be free. Then again what on this Earth ever really is free?

[cdlong]

Who said it would ever be free (except the idiots The Wolf mentioned)? And you do realize your health care costs are so high because the lazy idiots are already sucking off what you pay for health care. Whether it's through a tax or through over inflated health care costs, you're already paying for it.

[1 88 U]

I am completely against it. It doesn't do anything for me to lower my medical costs. it only taxes me for the idiots who are too lazy to stop sucking off the government and get a decent job and/or education. I have yet to see any of the "Hope and Change" that Obama promised the idiots that voted for him back in 2008. healthcare will never be free. Then again what on this Earth ever really is free?

It makes it so your children can remain on your plan until age 26, your insurance company can't drop your coverage or impose caps on care if you get a reoccurring illness and other shit ESmorz wrote in his post you obviously didn't bother to read.

I can see attacking this law on grounds that it doesn't do nearly enough to solve the many issues with our healthcare system as TheWolf has, but to go "Der hurp, Obumer done raised muh taxes!" is just ignorant.