Snap Oversteer Question - Driving Style Adjustment

[SuperBlackS14]

So, my friend was driving my car home and took a 100 degree turn at about 50MPH... this of course produced snap oversteer, which he, generally driving FWD cars and his EVO didn't know how to cure in my car, aside from.fishtailing till he regainded control. He didn't damage anthing and we weren't hurt, but he got me thinking...

TL;DR - from the more experienced driver's on here, how do you save yourself from.lift-off oversteer, aside from not lifting off?

I am in need of an adjustment to my driving style, and I figured this would be one of the best places to ask. Thanks for any help anyone feels like.contributing.

[slider2828]

What differential type do you have in your car....

What tire size and what are your alignment settings.

[SuperBlackS14]

S14 VLSD, 205/55R16 W-rated BFG Sport COMP-2s, and alignment is dialed pretty close to stock (race alignment)

[Silverbullet]

Go to drift events and get a feel for your car. Giving instructions online is pretty pointless IMO.

[UNITEDMASTER]

Instead of lifting completely try to just breath the throttle. Choping the throttle when weight is already transfered(mid corner) will usually always produce snap oversteer(inertia drift),especially on low grip tires.

But on certain corners on a track you may need to lift to get the car to rotate,sometimes this is due to carring to much speed into the corner,or your line on entry was not so good VS road speed & your off line mid corner...

work on judging corner entry speed better & entry line,you should not be lifting after turn in.Get all your wrk done before turn in,let car take a set,then add appropriate amount of throttle at a constant rate,then mash out corner exit.. Of course there is exceptions to the rule(traffic,debris ect...)

Also make sure your sway bars are not in a bind at static ride height,if the are ,at some point during the suspensions arc, they will become unloaded. Causing the suspension to react diferentlyevery lap,every corner..

Driver cure is to be more predictable & consistant with inputs & your line.

Also mke sure suspension does not bottom out through its range of travle.

[SuperBlackS14]

Thanks very much. What about if you happen to already be in lift-off oversteer? Like, whats the best way to regain control or put yourself in a position to regain control.

I do know I have to learn my car better, and that's not to say I don't make it do things it normally wouldn't in empty lots, but I was asking more from a technique prospective. Also, thank you for replies.

[slider2828]

Could be warn out LSD. Also what does race alignment mean. Get out checked. 205 front and rear is pretty narrow. Were you testing on the street? Unclean road? Really a currently setup 240 won't do that

[SuperBlackS14]

No, Wasn't really testing, the LSD may well be worn, when I said Race it meant "a 4 wheel alignment performed by a speed shop". Sorry. 205 is stock, lol. I'm running stock tires.

Like I said, I wasn't driving at the time, but yeah. I'm pretty sure I wasn't bottoming out the travel. I set my FAs at Zero Preload... Might have been the road. I'm pretty sure my car is set up okay, for tire wear at least.

I was more looking for advice on "if you find yourself in *blank* situation, the best way to save your ass could be *blank*." I realize there are a lot of variables, but I figured the guys in this section know what they're talking about and could offer some opinions.

Also, please don't mistake me for being ungrateful, or sarcastic, I really do appreciate the helpful responses

[UNITEDMASTER]

Thanks very much. What about if you happen to already be in lift-off oversteer? Like, whats the best way to regain control or put yourself in a position to regain control.

I do know I have to learn my car better, and that's not to say I don't make it do things it normally wouldn't in empty lots, but I was asking more from a technique prospective. Also, thank you for replies.


Torn into the slides direction,& try to catch it

[ch1873857]

100 degree corner at 50mph O_o ...

simple solution.

brake before the turn. accelerate through the apex. if you come into a corner just too hot your gonna get those affects.. either im not understanding your question or your making this way to complicated.

[Gold Zenki]

it all depends on what caused it to snap, where u going in too hot? or was it simply that great of a weight transfer due to the lift? either way i doubt u were in the right gear to have throttle control which leaves u at a disadvantage due to not being able to produce the torque you need under throttle so u must focus on quick steering and more importantly when to start to take the countersteer out, which is really something u learn to feel through the wheel and the seat, you must relax and allow the car to talk to you..

in order to give your self more of a chance to correct it if it does happen u should in in a gear which has u at about 50% of the rpm range, so if something does happen u can have some throttle control and can modulate the rotation of the car usually under a lift-oversteer putting the throttle down helps load the rear of the car and therefore inducing rear grip.

make sure not to over correct!!!! id say a 80% of the time it is better to spin due to insufficient counter steer, than to have the car dart the opposite way and pretty much zero ur chances at being able to catch the slide.

pm me if u want me to further attempt at writing my thoughts and experience.... as for any other drifters out there feel free to address and thing u dont agree with

[ch1873857]

you must relax and allow the car to talk to you..


:picardfp: lost all hope for this forum. again.. who says this shit.

[slider2828]

oooooo you mean a "O Shit" Moment..... I would suggest learning those things on a track or having an instructor and getting more seat time....

A moments of "O shit" you going into reflex/survival mode with the subliminal.... just need to practice and get more seat time.... I wouldn't read too much into it on the web...

[SuperBlackS14]

Lol, Appreciate that advice. Ill work on it. Thanks guys!

[pacotaco345]

Whenever I get snap oversteer I just let go of the wheel and catch it when the car begins to correct itself.. The thing with snap oversteer/oh shit moment is if you correct AND lift then you'll get snap overcorrection. Just keep your right foot steady, and let the car do the work.

[Hellother]

:picardfp: lost all hope for this forum. again.. who says this shit.

how is he wrong? maybe his wording is gay but his point is spot on, how do you control a car you can't feel when your panicking? Feel the car transition and adjust from there.

[fckillerbee]

NEVER LIFT

but seriously....only way to pre-pare for this....is to do it over and over. good luck with that.

[SuperBlackS14]

Lol, well I've got time to practice.

[slider2828]

Just don't do it on the street.... Skid pad really helps you learn some control...

[SuperBlackS14]

No kidding, its fucking dangerous. I know its just an S-Chassis but I love my car. Don't wanna get it banged up too bad.

[codyace]

Lets also not forget, that 'loss of control' shouldn't be confused with snap oversteer.

You want snap oversteer, divebomb an s2000 into a corner, think you own the world, and just before you goto give it some steam have the assend come around so fast that you forgot what day it is. That is snap oversteer...not your buddy early apexing a corner

[ILoveJDM]

Lets also not forget, that 'loss of control' shouldn't be confused with snap oversteer.

You want snap oversteer, divebomb an s2000 into a corner, think you own the world, and just before you goto give it some steam have the assend come around so fast that you forgot what day it is. That is snap oversteer...not your buddy early apexing a corner


no kidding. s2000's are the worst for that.

also if you want to help eliminate the problem somehwhat, get aftermarket rear toe rods, or make the stock ones stronger, they are U shaped and love to bind up and release alot of tension when they unload.

[Gold Zenki]

:picardfp: lost all hope for this forum. again.. who says this shit.

people that spend most of their life driving on a real racetrack, driving real cars. but what ever buddy go fly a kite, if u have nothing to say that can help someone out

[s13conv]

Even coming from racing a rear mid-engined car that was tail happy, I still don't believe in snap oversteer. It's really all on the driver.

Remember: "Slow in. Fast out."

Until you are ready for what could happen:


-Don't enter a turn too fast.
-Make sure you have dropped enough speed and are off the brakes before you enter the turn.
-Better to enter the turn too slow and power out of it than to enter the turn too hot and lose control.

Find a local autocross group and attend as many events as you can. It will be safer than learning the limits of your driving abilities on the street.

Good luck! Have fun! Be Safe!

[codyace]

Even coming from racing a rear mid-engined car that was tail happy, I still don't believe in snap oversteer. It's really all on the driver.

Remember: "Slow in. Fast out."

Until you are ready for what could happen:


-Don't enter a turn too fast.
-Make sure you have dropped enough speed and are off the brakes before you enter the turn.
-Better to enter the turn too slow and power out of it than to enter the turn too hot and lose control.

Find a local autocross group and attend as many events as you can. It will be safer than learning the limits of your driving abilities on the street.

Good luck! Have fun! Be Safe!



Ignore the old mantra's; drive a s2000 or a 911. Again you feel like king shit, until it loops itself

[SuperBlackS14]

On a note related to all this, I took a training course today for Michelin Tires called "UHP" and it was basically "High Performance driving 101". Talked about the different kinds of weight, where the most performance benefits come from when reducing the certain types of weight, a mathematical formula for why hitting the apex is a good idea, even some alignment basics.

Was pretty cool. But related to this because it actually just told me to find my limits carefully and gave me some basic safety stuff that I didn't know before.

Sorry for that cool story. I promise not to tell it again. Thanks again to everyone who posted. I just want to reitterate, I was more worried about my driving being wack than the car. I think I've gotten some good info here.

[roboticnissan]

I really wish more of you guys were from cali. Id love to see some of you guys drive.

Op: my advice would be to hit track events as much as you can. Id not listen to half of what ppl to tell you on zilvia. You need to know your car, know how fast it likes to spin out and know what it feels like just before it naturally snaps back.

Any over steer can be cured by counter steer and letting off the throttle unless your spinning out.

Get out and drive.

[PoppaDrift]

I have to agree that the car can tell you certain things if you learn the language. When I raced sprint karts the rear tires would, near the limit, make a subtle vibration which I could feel once I recognized the sensation. It was a hint that any more speed would result in a loss of grip.

Something to remember when driving fast is to always keep your visual focus ahead of the car. It takes a bit of concentration to accomplish with any consistency.

The brain is able to store a short term "movie" of what you are seeing. By always looking ahead, you are constantly updating yourself for what comes next while the brain is working with the info already gathered. I know this sounds goofy or "zen-like". But it actually works and is taught in driving schools.

On the same topic, when you find yourself in a slide, you must focus your eyes on where you want to be, not on where you are.

A "panic" situation will tend to shorten your vision and attention to the space immediately in front of the car. That is "old news" for the brain. You have to show the brain where you want to go.

[s13conv]

Ignore the old mantra's; drive a s2000 or a 911. Again you feel like king shit, until it loops itself

I used to own a 911. ;-)

[racepar1]

If you have an aggressive clutch-type LSD then that is most likely the cause of the issue. With an aggressive locking LSD you CANNOT lift-off the throttle mid-corner. When you do the diff locks up and the rear end slides out. The solution is to buy an actual good LSD not some super awesome JDM drift crap. If you do not have any LSD then I would suggest that your buddy does not know how to drive. I have never experienced snap-oversteer off the throttle in a 240sx. Off-throttle 240's tend to understeer, not oversteer. It's on the throttle that you typically get the "snap oversteer". I do highly doubt that what you're referring to as "snap oversteer" is actually "snap oversteer" though. Snap oversteer is very violent and sudden and typically is not recoverable.

[Gold Zenki]

The brain is able to store a short term "movie" of what you are seeing. By always looking ahead, you are constantly updating yourself for what comes next while the brain is working with the info already gathered. I know this sounds goofy or "zen-like". But it actually works and is taught in driving schools.

On the same topic, when you find yourself in a slide, you must focus your eyes on where you want to be, not on where you are.



very well stated. pretty much ur eyes drive you, while ur body follows. look only where u want to go, and as far ahead as possible dont stare, but sweep your vision

[DJ-of-E]

very well stated. pretty much ur eyes drive you, while ur body follows. look only where u want to go, and as far ahead as possible dont stare, but sweep your vision

This is the rule of thumb when going into auto-X. Top drivers already looking 2 or 3 corners ahead while taking a current corner, especially solo2's courses on El Toro.

[evils2k07]

This is a good thread! Good info! What does it take to make an s2000 to go sideways?