Smog help...completely lost

[Rpjohns3]

Hi i have an 89 hatchback with a 96 KA24de all stock only has a muffler tip. I got this car from trading my last hatch for it which had a blown engine and the hatch with KA24de i have now was done by previous owner and has all smog equipment from i can see. It wont pass smog here in California for a few reasons and just need help and advice on what to do to make it pass on what the car didnt pass. It didn't pass pcv ( but i replaced the tube in the front connecting the valve cover and air intake), fuel evaporative controls functional, ignition timing: 30btdc, fuel evaporative controls, MIL/Check Engine Light.

Okay so my first question is should i just spend all my money that i have left on a smog guy that well just pass it for me? I don't like this idea only because its all my money and i wanna kinda get my car running right. I only have 250 dollars to spend at the moment

Another option is should i just take it to a regular smog place again but a smog place that can fix my car and make it run right not just a smog check only place. But i think this well take all my money as well if not more. Basically I pay 70-80 dollars for smog test and then whatever it cost to fix.



GO AHEAD AND MAKE ALL THE RUDE AND FLAMING COMMENTS YOU WANT I'M LEARNING AND THIS WELL ALL BE APART OF MY LEARNING PROCESS. I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING EVER SINCE I GOT THIS SMOG CHECK A WEEK OR TWO AGO SO DON'T SAY I HAVEN'T SEARCHED. EVERYTHING I SEARCHED IS ABOUT SMOG DELETE NOT PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER. SO PLEASE JUST SPREAD A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE.

[FlatBlackIan]

Well, first of all, the tube connecting the intake tube to the VC is not the PCV. That is breather that helps pull moisture out of the crankcase, but also provides a small amount of suction during WOT, when the PCV is not efficient or working at all.

The PCV is on the block, and it is connected to each intake runner individually under the intake.

Second, what are the other issues exactly? Those look like specs. Is the MIL on? Have you set base timing properly?

Lastly. Protip: getting all bent out of shape and screaming at everyone in an OP, is not a great way to get help. Especially on only your second post. Learn to deal with a little razzing, its comes with the territory. Try to lighten up.

[Rpjohns3]

Sorry it wasn't really screaming or getting bent outta shape it was just like me trying to highlight the most important part. I understand i well get a little more harsh responses and I am perfectly fine with it.


Well don't how else to explain those things to other what the paper says i failed on and I well be doing the timing soon too though.

But when the smog guy said pcv he mentioned that tube and i replaced it because the old one had duct tape all on it and shit.

[DJ-of-E]

Okay so my first question is should i just spend all my money that i have left on a smog guy that well just pass it for me? I don't like this idea only because its all my money and i wanna kinda get my car running right. I only have 250 dollars to spend at the moment

Another option is should i just take it to a regular smog place again but a smog place that can fix my car and make it run right not just a smog check only place. But i think this well take all my money as well if not more. Basically I pay 70-80 dollars for smog test and then whatever it cost to fix.

Honestly, you're screwed either way with more money. Did you pay extra when you trade your blown car with a car that has a OBDII engine? Probably easier just to buy someone else's KA24DE and install it in. So you learn your lesson in not to buy someone else's project car.

Secondly, if $250 is all you have, then you're better off having the smog check guy pass it for you for now and then spend the 2 years trying to fix it. The other smog guy will probably end up charging you more than $250 if you have has to take the intake manifold off the reach the iacv or find what's causing the issue.

Third, is MIL still on? Find out why it is on, what code it is reading? Usually that's the first people will ask here before throwing random advise it may not work.

Lastly, my advise for you in life, cars are expensive and you are young and broke. Take from my other friends' experiences. Unless you want to become a mechanic (if you do, take electrical engineering), don't spend your money on the 240sx right now and get a good untouched commuter car like a Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord. Less stress for you with more time and money to concentrate other things in life. Everything costs money and it is no investment to spend money in a 20 year old project car that will screw you over royalty.

[Rpjohns3]

Ok well thank you guys for the advice and I think I well just go for the smog pass just to legal and then Im gonna work on it for the time being. Yeah I have heard the "get a good/reliable car for right now and get your fun car later" plenty of times. So I'll just learn the hard way then I guess.

[Rpjohns3]

Oh yeah one more question my egr tube that runs from the header back to the intake its been cut and it has about a good 3-4 inches if not more taken out of it. Also you don't have to take off the exhaust and intake manifold to take off the egr right? you can just take off the egr without taking anything else off and just by leaving the engine alone?

[DJ-of-E]

So I'll just learn the hard way then I guess. I learned that quick when my 1985 Celica crapped out and bought a 1991 Nissan 240sx (mind you, they were 10 year old cars when I bought it). The difference in 240's used back then and 240's now is night and day. Any used car older than 15 years old really do suck to own and costs a ton of money to get them back into shape.

[Rpjohns3]

Anyone got answer to my last question?

[FlatBlackIan]

I learned that quick when my 1985 Celica crapped out and bought a 1991 Nissan 240sx (mind you, they were 10 year old cars when I bought it). The difference in 240's used back then and 240's now is night and day. Any used car older than 15 years old really do suck to own and costs a ton of money to get them back into shape.

Not always. For 2 years I daily drove a 86 4WD Nissan hardbody pickup. The odo stopped working at 110,000 miles, before I bought it. All I have done is put tires on it, and oil in it. Only reason I dont drive it now, is my bike gets way better mileage. Its been relegated to a Home Depot queen. They just don't build them like they used to.

Oh yeah one more question my egr tube that runs from the header back to the intake its been cut and it has about a good 3-4 inches if not more taken out of it. Also you don't have to take off the exhaust and intake manifold to take off the egr right? you can just take off the egr without taking anything else off and just by leaving the engine alone?

Yes, you should be able to just remove the EGR crossover tube.

[Rpjohns3]

But what can i do about the 3-4 inches of tube taken out?

[idlafie]

RP,

You'll have to replace the cut EGR tube. Open up a phone book, (or search online), for an auto salvage yard in your neighborhood. Give them a call and ask if they have an EGR tube for a KA24DE. Or go to the Want To Buy section here on Zilvia and post a request, (or check the For Sale section to see if someone is parting out a car in your neighborhood).

If you don't want to deal with the hassles of searching around for an EGR tube, then go to your local Nissan dealership & order/buy one. Or do a Net search for an online parts seller that can ship you that tube.

As for your smog issues, you're about to get a crash course on understanding smog test results. Smog tests are done at two speeds 15 mph & 25 mph. For each test Hydrocarbons, (HC), Carbon Monoxide, (CO) & Oxides of Nitrogen, (NOx) are measured with maximum limits set for each test.
When the smog technician performs the test on your car he will get two sets of readings for your car. You need to post the MEAS, (actual measured readings), of both 15 mph & 25 mph test.

Example:
15 mph test - HC Max 88 Meas ?? / CO Max 0.36 Meas ?? / NO Max 493 Meas ??
25 mph test - HC Max 53 Meas ?? / CO Max 0.35 Meas ?? / NO Max 516 Meas ??

Post your readings here so we can have an idea as to what may be causing you to fail Smog. Judging from the fact that your EGR tube is cut, chances are you probably failed the VISUAL portion of your smog test, (all EGR parts must be installed on a motor & not appear to be tampered with - they can't be blocked off / missing / or cut.), You also probably failed the NOx portion of your smog test because the cut EGR tube on your motor wasn't recirculating hot exhaust gasses back into your intake manifold. The EGR tube helps cut smog by putting hot exhaust gasses back into the intake manifold helping to reduce harmful gases which produce smog & hurt the environment. NO is produced when temperatures in the combustion chambers exceed 2500 degrees Fahrenheit. Excessive engine temperatures could be caused by a lean fuel mixture, by retarded timing, by carbon buildup inside the combustion chamber, or by a malfunctioning engine cooling system. The function of the EGR System is to reduce NO. Unhealthy levels of NO emissions result in a vehicle failing its Smog Check.

Use the SEARCH function here on Zilvia & look up some of my previous posts about smog test. Also click on the attached link to find out more information about understanding your smog test...Vehicle Inspection Report Glossary (http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResources/02_SmogCheck/Engineering/Vehicle_Inspection_Report_Glossary.html)

Anyhow, hope this helps... Apologies for the long post...

ID

[eek]

First off if I recall, any type of questions about illegal smog and stuff like that will get your thread locked.

OP, sorry its common sense to replace something that is missing or broken. OBVIOUSLY if there is 3-4 inches of the EGR Tube missing your going to need another one and replace it. Like others have said, old car = time, $$$$, and headaches. If you don't have any of those I wouldn't bother on any old car as your daily/project car.

That's probably why this other guy was willing to take your car with a blown head gasket and trade his headache to you. If I were you I would sell the car if you don't know how to work on your car or have handy friends that can help you out. Sell it use that cash and get something you doesn't have issues passing smog, unless you want to deal with this smog issue every 2yrs.

[Rpjohns3]

Thank you guys for helping out and all the advice. Sorry about the illegal smog thing I did not know about that and well keep it to myself for now on. Also would having that much of the tube gone make it idle funny?

[ka4life87]

Oh yeah one more question my egr tube that runs from the header back to the intake its been cut and it has about a good 3-4 inches if not more taken out of it. Also you don't have to take off the exhaust and intake manifold to take off the egr right? you can just take off the egr without taking anything else off and just by leaving the engine alone?

If the egr valve tube has been cut then thats one of your big problems there, egr is pretty much bypassed right now so ur NOx levels are of the charts, also make sure it still has a cat and make sure your not burning oil, good way to tell is have someone rev it and if you see blue smoke then ur burning oil and it will be nearly impossible to pass emissions like that. If you get black smoke then your running too rich, but like mentioned if you dont have much money to spend ur better off starting with another car.

[Rpjohns3]

Are the egr systems interchangeable between the s13 and s14 KA24de? Because theres a guy who is cutting me a deal on an whole egr system but i think its for a s13 ka and like i said i have a s14 KA. Thank yyou again for all the help.

[idlafie]

RP

I'm not sure if the EGR systems between a S13 & S14 are interchangeable. They might be, but I couldn't tell you for sure.

The S13 uses an airbox in the system while a S14 doesn't, (see the attached links):

S13 - the black airbox is in the upper left corner of the picture.
http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/382908-s13-ka24de-egr-system-40-a.html


S14 - I think the EGR soleniod valve is missing from the picture...???
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd454/Volcom887/2011-10-10180210.jpg

You might want to use the SEARCH function here on Zilvia.net & try to find a FSM, (Factory Service Manual) for your particular model/year that shows a picture/drawing for your year motor. Ask the guy that is selling you the EGR system to take a picture of the system & email it to you. You can then post the picture so we can see it.

The only way you'll know for sure is once you get ahold of the EGR pipe & see if it mates up on the exhaust manifold & the EGR valve on your S14. That or order it from a Nissan dealer.

Anyhow, hope this helps....good luck!!

ID

PS:
What were your Smog test numbers...you never posted the results. ???....

[Rpjohns3]

15 mph test - HC Max 83 Meas 92 / CO Max 0.53 Meas .80 / NO Max 559 Meas 2168
25 mph test - HC Max 65 Meas 42 / CO Max 0.44 Meas .43 / NO Max 516 Meas 1556


Those are my numbers for the test i got.

[OutlawLui]

How many miles on engine? if its too beat up, its not worth fixing up to pass, just find a place that will for sure pass you for about $150 *wink wink.

[Rpjohns3]

Well up in Norcal were I'm at its about a $100-$150 more.

[idlafie]

15 mph test - HC Max 83 Meas 92 / CO Max 0.53 Meas .80 / NO Max 559 Meas 2168
25 mph test - HC Max 65 Meas 42 / CO Max 0.44 Meas .43 / NO Max 516 Meas 1556


Those are my numbers for the test i got.

RP

Your NO readings are extremely high because of the cut EGR tube. Put the replacement tube in, then check to make sure the small 90 degree vacuum line between the BPT & EGR valve is still intact. If it is, then your EGR system should be working & your NO readings should drop.

You can reduce your HC & CO readings by making sure your timing is correct for your S14. You can do this by 1). Changing your spark plugs, 2). Change your distributor cap & rotor, 3). Check and adjust your distributor timing, (I believe it's supposed to be at 20 degrees TDC - the sticker underneath your hood should tell you what the timing should be set at). 4). Put your ECU, (Engine Control Unit in Diagnostic Mode - you'll need a Factory Service Manual to know how to do this), and see what Diagnostic Trouble Codes if any your car's ECU is kicking out. You can also test your Front Oxygen, (O2) Sensor while the ECU is in Diagnostic mode to see if it is working properly. If the Front O2 sensor is NOT working properly, go out & replace it. and finally, 5). Go to your nearest auto parts store & buy a can of SEAFOAM Motor Treatment, Buy Sea Foam Motor Treatment for Gas and Diesel Engines (16 fl. oz.) SF16 at Advance Auto Parts (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_6410004-P_x_x?cm_mmc=CSE-_-Google-_-VALUE3-_-VALUE4&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=#utm_source=cse&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=value3&utm_content=value4). Watch the following video to see how to seafoam your S14 SeaFoam on a Nissan 240sx - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6PttqAU1GM&feature=channel&list=UL)

Oh..and before I forget, if you haven't already done so, change your fuel filter. It will help with a better unrestricted flow of gasoline to your fuel rail.
And make sure to check your fuel pressure regulator is getting proper vacuum. You want to make sure your fuel pressure regulator is working properly and not dumping excess fuel into the intake manifold causing high HC & CO readings.

Hopefully all this stuff will help you to pass smog.

ID

[ka4life87]

Are the egr systems interchangeable between the s13 and s14 KA24de? Because theres a guy who is cutting me a deal on an whole egr system but i think its for a s13 ka and like i said i have a s14 KA. Thank yyou again for all the help.

The s13 and s14 ka's are almost identical except for on the s14 ka the coil is inside the dizzy and a couple of emissions parts are different but the intake manifolds are the same so egr parts should be interchangable, just check if your 240 is equiped with california emissions because if it is, then have an additional sensor on the intake manifold to detect egr flow

[Rpjohns3]

Okay now I'm stuck again guys lol. I saw that I have 3 bolts across the top of my valve cover. I saw some pictures and read some threads that said that 3 bolts across the top means s13 KA24de. Now I'm confused on which type of egr tube to get. Also is the difference between s13 and s14 distributors.....like how many plugs are on the outside(besides the s14 using an internal coil)? Like I said in my first post this is an 89 shell with a supposedly 96 KA24de so is there any quick things I can just check out to see what it really is?

[ka4life87]

Both s13 ka and s14 ka have the same valve cover, internals, head, block are exactly the same, only difference is s13 ka is obd1 vs s14 ka is ob2 which the main difference is the ecu and emissions devices, to answer your question about the dizzy, if it has 4 spark plug wires coming out of it's an s14 ka since the coil is inside the dizzy, if it has 5 then its an s13 ka has external coil, but they couldve also swapped dizzys on s14 and used an s13 dizzy. Without much info to go by, cant tell you if u have an s13 or s14 ka even then its hard to tell cuz they can make an s13 ka work with s14 ecu etc.

[Rpjohns3]

So do I just go with whatever egr tube i come by and try to make it work? Because I have some deals lined up but I'm just not sure what to go with.

[ka4life87]

The egr tube that connects to the exhaust manifold should be the same on s14 and s13, a way to verify is swing by a nissan dealer and have them look up the part numbers for s14 and s13

[Rpjohns3]

Okay so I found this website called "Nissan parts zone" and I looked at both egr tubes. The only difference i can tell from the pictures is the part of tube going into the exhaust manifold is slightly different in the way they are bent. So the price is like 48 buck after shipping and all that for the one online, should i just go with some guy on Craigslist or a brand new OEM part? I mean it is just a tube and as long as its in one piece and doesn't have any holes it should be good right?lol

[YOSHIKOUKI]

hi i have an 89 hatchback with a 96 ka24de all stock only has a muffler tip. I got this car from trading my last hatch for it which had a blown engine and the hatch with ka24de i have now was done by previous owner and has all smog equipment from i can see. It wont pass smog here in california for a few reasons and just need help and advice on what to do to make it pass on what the car didnt pass. It didn't pass pcv ( but i replaced the tube in the front connecting the valve cover and air intake), fuel evaporative controls functional, ignition timing: 30btdc, fuel evaporative controls, mil/check engine light.

Okay so my first question is should i just spend all my money that i have left on a smog guy that well just pass it for me? I don't like this idea only because its all my money and i wanna kinda get my car running right. I only have 250 dollars to spend at the moment

another option is should i just take it to a regular smog place again but a smog place that can fix my car and make it run right not just a smog check only place. But i think this well take all my money as well if not more. Basically i pay 70-80 dollars for smog test and then whatever it cost to fix.



Go ahead and make all the rude and flaming comments you want i'm learning and this well all be apart of my learning process. I have been searching ever since i got this smog check a week or two ago so don't say i haven't searched. Everything i searched is about smog delete not putting it back together. So please just spread a little knowledge.

aye can u give me the info on the guy that charges 250

[YOSHIKOUKI]

how many miles on engine? If its too beat up, its not worth fixing up to pass, just find a place that will for sure pass you for about $150 *wink wink.


do u know a spot i need mines done

[fliprayzin240sx]

^^^Asking for something illegal in an open forum...really fucking smart for a 28 yr old.

[YOSHIKOUKI]

^^^Asking for something illegal in an open forum...really fucking smart for a 28 yr old.


MIND YA FUCKING BUSINESS :fawkd:

[Rpjohns3]

Everyone just hop off this thread its old and has no reason to be revived.

[enkei2k]

^^^Asking for something illegal in an open forum...really fucking smart for a 28 yr old.

:werd:

:cops: :cops: :cops:


Everyone just hop off this thread its old and has no reason to be revived.

with that said... :lockd: