percentage of people who prefer ka24de(t) to the sr20det

[illvialuver]

I know this may seem like beating a dead horse, but I need know this percentage to see the interest in ka24de(t) parts.

If major Japanese tuning companies produced ka24de(t) parts would you build a ka-t instead of an swapping in a sr20?

This poll is for people who are only interested in ka24det or the sr20det, if you want to put in an la or a rb, or 2j or whatever I just need information for the interest in quality engine tuning products for the ka24de

[illvialuver]

I'm sorry I forgot to leave a option for have had ka24det, want and plan to build a ka24det.

I also forgot to mention the option of I had an sr20 but I want a ka and vice versa.

Please your comments and thoughts, on why you want to build one, or what your reasons are for not wanting an sr.

Please leave vulgar or immature comments out of this.

Acceptable comments, are sr20det engines are illegal.

Or I prefer bucket over shim, more displacement,ect.

[illvialuver]

I just think that you would see so much more ka24det if companies like hks/greddy/tomei whoever makes the best and most common sr20det parts in Japan, made parts for the ka24de as well, especially when it is the motor that comes with our cars here and is not illegal.

[yvang07]

I love my KA because of the fact that there ARE companies that make parts specifically for this motor now. If you blow it up you could source another easily, A good friend has one that has over 500whp, Reliable as hell

[Akito86]

4age baiiibe with Carbs! Chauu

[smithrcing17]

if i could vote twice id chose the first and last category, i had a fully built ka motor, looked everywhere for parts, nothing was really clear, does this downpipe fit with this turbo? do i need a top mount or bottom mount, and then if i did get either of them who even makes a downpipe? is it going to clear my floor board? what intercooler kit should i buy? .... all of two options between like isis and greddy and at the time isis didnt even make their ka kit yet so i was kinda stuck between crazy expensive and ebay shit.. this is why i went with an sr, parts everywhere, sold my built ka setup for way more then what an sr cost and got a whole load of parts on top of that.. looking back if i knew what i knew now and had the resourses that i do now i prolly would stay with the ka since i already had a built block i could have fabricated all my own parts. but for the normal person who just bought a stock/semi stock 240, the amount of money they would spend building their motor, sourcing all the ka-t parts together would be double what an sr swap costs, i mean jei has complete srs for like 2350. if you have the least bit of motor skills you can swap a motor

[Biggamehit]

I was a proud owner of a very productive KA-T using it for drifting auto-x and occasional drag racing. I had a low end setup that was useful only putting down 204hp 208tq but I was on a budget and had fun with it.

I built it because well I didn't have money for the SR and honestly didn't want to get it just because. Around the time I did it 2006 JGS started carried manifold kits that you could build. I now live in Japan and own SR powered cars I have come to respect the engine but... I would never buy one to put inside a s13 should I ever live in America again. It comes down to preference and what the owner if capable of. Some people just cant build a proper turbo car and for them PnP might be the better cheaper option over all.

[illvialuver]

I can understand that. But the question I pose, is if the market for aftermarket parts were equal in choices[B] and if you [B]lived in the United States and drove a s13/s14
which would you choose.

[Kenzo]

I have a CA18DET and wish there was more support for it,:2c:

[Okinawandrifter87]

4age baiiibe with Carbs! Chauu

I have a CA18DET and wish there was more support for it,:2c:


Seriously, if you have nothing productive to add to this thread or on topic, then get out. None of those motors were options. The OP is asking for opinions to possibly help us out and get more options opened up for us.

OP, I love the SR, however, if there were more products as there is available for the sr that you wouldnt have to go custom for I probably would do KA.

[illvialuver]

Thanks for the support. I really just need to get a feel for what the actual headcount is of people who would run the ka if there was more aftermarket support.

This information will be very helpful. I am not at liberty to say what I am up to or who I work for, but as far as you know, people are not willing to put money into developing things without the statistics to back up their investment.

I am trying to get the information to help people develop parts to further our community.

I appreciate everyones time.

[Okinawandrifter87]

I knew it ;)

[brizanden]

ill always rock a ka over sr anyday if im staying 4 cylinder.
more availability cheaper etc etc
so yes it would be nice to have more off the shelf nice aftermarket pieces, but i do like that most ka-ters are a lil more knowledgable if they did build their own setup cause we have to hunt thro piles of info and figure out setups as someone else said as opposed to just dropping in a turbo motor with its stock pieces.

[Edwin562]

Im a former Ka-t, but i did go the dark side... for me its the same other than the Kat i felt more a raw power and the sr as smooth power... i stayed with my sr.... ;) sorry guys..

[illvialuver]

no reason to be sorry, I remember the early days when I had a ka-t like 4 years ago, and guys would flock to my car at a meet when they heard it was turbo, then I pop my hood and they were like " oh its a ka, whatever shoulda got an sr" now it seems like it is almost 50 -50

[Kuma]

I plan on going KA-t. Not really worried about it being hard to find parts... I'm pretty good at that, and have good friends that are skilled fabricators. If I ever swap engines it will be another KA or a V8.

[xh3nry]

I honestly think people prefer the sr because it's the easier route. Basically just dropping it in, as opposed to having to change compression and buying many parts via the kadet

[PureRush]

I had a ka-t s13 but It sucks how hard it is to find the parts that will actually fit. You have to either go ebay or go broke.

[illvialuver]

Xhenry-

Yeah you can drop in a sr and call it a day, but the bottom line is the motor is illegal, so that is a big factor for me when considering a engine for a street car. The ka doesn't need compression changed, it only suffers from weak ring seats, and most people who run ka-t run a semi shady re-tuned ecu, now if they had a proper stand alone and equal tuning like the sr, there wouldn't be many problems.

Then when you think of cost, you could have a built ka block and head for the cost of a bone stock sr.

I would like to mention that this thread/ poll is not to debate which is better, but to find out the percentage of people who would be interested in aftermarket ka24 parts made by reputable companies from Japan who already are famous for manufacturing parts for the sr20.

[xh3nry]

Xhenry-

Yeah you can drop in a sr and call it a day, but the bottom line is the motor is illegal, so that is a big factor for me when considering a engine for a street car. The ka doesn't need compression changed, it only suffers from weak ring seats, and most people who run ka-t run a semi shady re-tuned ecu, now if they had a proper stand alone and equal tuning like the sr, there wouldn't be many problems.

Then when you think of cost, you could have a built ka block and head for the cost of a bone stock sr.

I would like to mention that this thread/ poll is not to debate which is better, but to find out the percentage of people who would be interested in aftermarket ka24 parts made by reputable companies from Japan who already are famous for manufacturing parts for the sr20.

Well technically, ka-t is illegal too because it won't be able to pass smog. It would be cool to have the kat parts more readily available and at a more affordable price though. I think people would really enjoy building their own engine themself rather than swapping a motor. Its just the experience is pretty cool, you know. What i'm trying to say is that people would be less intimidated to go with the kat route.:hsdance:

[Crondy]

I would like to mention that this thread/ poll is not to debate which is better, but to find out the percentage of people who would be interested in aftermarket ka24 parts made by reputable companies from Japan who already are famous for manufacturing parts for the sr20. [/QUOTE]

yes

[Gold Zenki]

i freaking lovee my ka!!! most people that dissagree with them, give up on them simply because they cant build one worth a crap so rather go with something thats already put together.. also may i add, do u like torque? i have yet to ride in anything SR powered that pulls like a KA

[illvialuver]

yes but the difference between being an illigal ka-t and an illegal sr is that with the ka, you simply swap the manifolds/ put on your stock exhuast system and injectors and ecu and you can pass inspection, you dont have to pull the whole motor. plus the sr doesnt look like the stock motor, the ka does.

[Okinawandrifter87]

Now I don't know if your at liberty to discuss or even shed light on this OP however, when your talking about KA24det parts are you just referring to engine parts alone or does that include tuning parts?

[AdamR]

Why would I want overpriced JDM garbage for my KA?

[Okinawandrifter87]

^^ AdamR , seriously? If you have nothing productive to add to this thread or on topic, then get out. If you want parts for your KA then say something along those lines. If you don't want any overpriced items but want stuff for the KA then figure out how to use your adult big boy words and re word it like " Yeah I would love Ka-t parts however I just don't want the jdm fan boi pricetag with it" So that way the OP knows there is a market out there but just due to pricing it may vary. If not then do not bother wasting your time posting in the thread if you have nothing useful.

[oscarsx]

^^ AdamR , seriously? If you have nothing productive to add to this thread or on topic, then get out. If you want parts for your KA then say something along those lines. If you don't want any overpriced items but want stuff for the KA then figure out how to use your adult big boy words and re word it like " Yeah I would love Ka-t parts however I just don't want the jdm fan boi pricetag with it" So that way the OP knows there is a market out there but just due to pricing it may vary. If not then do not bother wasting your time posting in the thread if you have nothing useful.

welcome to public forums.

Sent from my DROID X2

[illvialuver]

engine internals/ pulleys/ valve train/turbo kits, head gaskets, manifolds, oil pans,ect.

[AdamR]

^^ AdamR , seriously? If you have nothing productive to add to this thread or on topic, then get out. If you want parts for your KA then say something along those lines. If you don't want any overpriced items but want stuff for the KA then figure out how to use your adult big boy words and re word it like " Yeah I would love Ka-t parts however I just don't want the jdm fan boi pricetag with it" So that way the OP knows there is a market out there but just due to pricing it may vary. If not then do not bother wasting your time posting in the thread if you have nothing useful.

What lack of parts? There are plenty of folks over on KA-T.org running many different setups. You may have to pay more for a bespoke manifold that matches what you want, but that's the nature of going with a less popular option.
Either way, a poll on Zilvia isn't going to get some JDM companies to make parts for a fringe group that is primarily cheap asses (me included.)

[hotlavaflow]

I love my KA-T I would only swap in a VH or LS IF I had to swap it out. I have a VH sitting my garage and I'm enjoying my KA-T too much to bother with it right now.

easy to work on
comes free with the car
no rewiring
blow it up and get a new one for free to $250
get parts local
TORQUE
people with KA-T's tend to be more knowledgeable than SR people. I run into someone with a KA-T we can have an in depth conversation about motors, set-up etc. When I run into SR guys it's "that's how I got it" or "yeah I pulled the the K and dropped in this SR..... crickets" I'm not saying there aren't SR guys out there with a solid understanding of what's going on under their hood I just don't see many KA-T fanboys.

[illvialuver]

AdamR, you never know. By never I mean like right now. Polls are part of research, and that is exactly what I am doing. The more people that use the ka-t the more demand for parts there are for it. Simple law of supply and demand, I am just trying to gauge the demand for these products.

[GeneralTso]

i think jap companies dont give two shits about the KA. they never had the motor so they aren't concerned with it when a stock 240sx/180sx/silvia, etc. comes with an sr20 or they have multiple swap options that have plenty o' options. But back on topic, had a ka, building an sr, would like to build and drive a ka-t, though. got an sr and some cash on a trade from my other s14.

[illvialuver]

Well your not a Japanese company.

Here is the reasoning.

If about half the people would like to build a ka-t, and the majority of japanese aftermarket parts are sold to the us market, then it would be viable for them to offer parts for the ka.

Yoshio factory actually imported a s13 with a ka and was building it for competition but didn't have enough time to complete the modifications and fabrications.


It would be the equivalent of a restaurant only selling meat and not selling salad, if you sell both , you increase the possibility of your profits, it is just casting the net wider.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's input.

[usdm180sx]

Take a ka and add a t25 with 370cc injectors and enthalpy tune boosting 7lbs vs a stock sr boosting 7 lbs and the ka-t will be more fun. I prefer sr's because they run smoother. but i have love for ka-t's

[illvialuver]

the only reason they run smoother is they have a fully balance rotating assembly, give that to a ka and you have your smoothness.

[usdm180sx]

Well that's Nissan's fault then lol

[Scope240sx]

I have owned 2 240sx, one rs13 and currently own a s13. Both motors came with the ka24de & I love it! With very few aftermarket products you can really make the KA come alive! However the KA does fall flat after 5500 rpm, but has so much low end grunt! Bottom line if Tomei/trust/hks released parts strictly for KA-T, I would buy them & I would go KA-T, why not?

[KendallH]

Never had luck with KAs. As long as I have a 240 it will be SR powered.

[illvialuver]

Its funny, that most people that have issues with the ka, are simply doing it wrong. They will buy a reflash tuned ecu like nistun, romtun, entralpy whatever, then crank up the boost, on an engine that had 150k miles on it before they even decided to turbo it.

Or you will get some guys who just learned to change oil but want to take on the responsibility of changing a head gasket, and then they blow a head gasket and want to call the motor junk.

[hotlavaflow]

the only reason they run smoother is they have a fully balance rotating assembly, give that to a ka and you have your smoothness.

My rotating assembly is fully balanced and I say again, I love my KA-T. Hey I went through 3 motors before I got it right. 1 my fault (oil weight too light = spun bearing) 2 failures that added experience (snapped tensioner, popped wastegate line) but try going through 3 SR's, I'd feel sorry for your pockets.

[illvialuver]

^exactly^ the only reason guys in japan use sr20s is because it is cheaper to do so, because the damn thing comes with it.

[makinthatdough]

I love my kade i am going to turbo it soon once i get the funds i would love to have a reliable source for parts for the ka. honestly its stupid to put a illegal motor in your car if your gonna be daily driving it. especially the fact the ka has more torque and .4 more liters. thus can produce more power with equal upgrades. If japan started sourcing parts for the ka to america i think 240 owners would be very happy and we would see alot more turbo powered ka's around

[Nicelyphe]

Honestly, I prefer the SR for a few reasons.

The car was originally designed for it.
Two of my KA's have blown, not turbo'd..just stock, never drifted, just daily driven.
The SR does get more views in the aftermarket world I believe, but KA has a good share as well.
I prefer individual coilpacks rather than the distributer cap and coil setup.
The SR looks better.

[silnv]

I prefer the SR as well. Im lucky enough to live in an area with no inspections, smog, and all that other garbage that a lot of other people have to deal with.

If I were to live in California or another similar state, I would rather go KA.

[illvialuver]

I currently know 3 people who have just bought 2 or more sr20 swaps from "reputable shops" and had them seize blow up or die, so much money, that is close to 5k each person for a stock s13 sr.

Long block sr20s are going for more than a grand now, money could be better spent getting off that JDM bandwagon and getting a ka-t setup. A proper one at that.

[sil80takashi]

illvialuver, I know you from you know where lol

btw I went through x3 SR's on my Sil80 when I had it,
just went with the swap since it was KA24e single cam and leaking rear main seal.

initially got and Redtop front clip, chucked the rod out the side of the block,
so I ordered a Blacktop long block, it cam with a leaky valve train, smoked like hell.
So had it replaced with another one, and it was good but I sold the car by then.

later along I owned a S14 with S14 SR, it blew a headgasket, so I replaced it,
and couple months later it started to leak again... so I got tired of SRs and sold the car.

Now I don't have an S-Chassis, but if I were to go back (which I will prolly do),
I'd be interested in building an all motor KA24DE with mild cams.

So I'll go ahead to vote for second choice
see ya around :)

[illvialuver]

I would like to add that the current price for a s13 sr long block is 13-1600 dollars.

Seriously? Talk about absurd. All the more reason to build ka24de to turbo status

[illvialuver]

I would like to have 20 more votes or so.

[illvialuver]

i think jap companies dont give two shits about the KA. they never had the motor so they aren't concerned with it when a stock 240sx/180sx/silvia, etc. comes with an sr20 or they have multiple swap options that have plenty o' options. But back on topic, had a ka, building an sr, would like to build and drive a ka-t, though. got an sr and some cash on a trade from my other s14.

btw they have the ka in japan as well. It is just in a truck.

[usdm180sx]

At least they got it right in Japan lol

[Guitar Nut]

No lie, I would really like to turbo my KA. why? because I already have the engine. I have gotten many for free or under $100. I dont have to worry about trying to find another one in merica since most people get rid of them cheap to get an sr. I would be happy to buy a complete kit only if its at a good price not the super anal rape jdm tyte yo price. Not trying to spend an arm n leg on an engine that I am not going to fully build, but something I can go to the track on the weekends and still be able to daily drive around. Hope your poll goes well sir.

[illvialuver]

thanks.
I appreciate the feedback.

[illvialuver]

Eight more votes and I will have a nice even number to work with.

[usdm180sx]

Why do you need other people's opinions to make a choice that you can make on your own? Ride on one of each. Pick what you like more. Done

[illvialuver]

Because like I said before it is not my decision complety and bigger companies dont want to take a risk ( even though to me, it is no greater risk than making sr20 parts). What I am up to will help the community, and give us more options. Thanks again to everyone for their feedback, it is appreciated.

[Driftwire]

I plan going KA-T this year. I wish there was a wider supply of AFTERMARKET support for them. big ups on the poll and actually giving a shit! To all the people posting irrelevant shit... get the fuck out.

Im sure with proper aftermarket support and quality products and engine components you will see more and more KA / Ka-T out at local events and on the courses. Their easy to obtain and Require no modifications to the car itself.

Thanks again for caring about the Ka crowd

[jpbpoway]

yes but the difference between being an illigal ka-t and an illegal sr is that with the ka, you simply swap the manifolds/ put on your stock exhuast system and injectors and ecu and you can pass inspection, you dont have to pull the whole motor. plus the sr doesnt look like the stock motor, the ka does.

As a resident in CA this is exactly what I had in mind when it came time to smog. Now I'm currently in the middle of gathering parts for my turbo build after spending a year to rebuild the block itself with forged pistons, rods, and new valvetrain. Don't see what the fuss is about aftermarket availability between sr and ka, I found plenty of options with the ka. Maybe it's just the timing of when I got into the ka-t game that availability of parts is better than it was say 5 years ago >.>

[illvialuver]

yeah it has gotten better, but could still be better.

[silsx13]

KA all the way!

I have been racing in SCCA Solo2 events for the past 10 years along with doing drift events as well AND I have stuck with the KA for all that time.

My KA went through its various stages of mods where it was just stock to bolt-ons to Full NA build and now where it sits currently as a fully built KA-T motor.

The SR has its merits but for the types of racing I do, cost vs return ratio, power & torque numbers, powerband delivery, etc. the KA has fit the bill totally.

[theboy]

KA all the way!

I have been racing in SCCA Solo2 events for the past 10 years along with doing drift events as well AND I have stuck with the KA for all that time.

My KA went through its various stages of mods where it was just stock to bolt-ons to Full NA build and now where it sits currently as a fully built KA-T motor.

The SR has its merits but for the types of racing I do, cost vs return ratio, power & torque numbers, powerband delivery, etc. the KA has fit the bill totally.

You obviously have never driven or purchased an sr if this is how you feel. Stock ka vs stock sr, sr is the better choice. Stock ka with t25 or t28 vs stock sr, sr still is better. Built ka vs mildly built sr, sr still is the better decision. The amount you spend a ka-t could be spent on an sr swap. With a much better return on investment. Stock sr's can handle a hell of a lot more than a ka. Plus its lighter, plus the aftermarket is bigger, plus its a shit ton more reliable.


After having a stock ka24e, then a ka24de, then ka24det, then built ka24det. My mildly built sr (head work, valves, lifters, cams, 2871r) was the best decision i have ever made. I saved $1000's going the sr route.

Oh and yes i autoX and drift the car. I also run high speed time attack and door to door. And with an sr i lost enough points to drop me into a class the car is competitive in, and not a bunch of fully built lotus elise's.

[silsx13]

You obviously have never driven or purchased an sr if this is how you feel. Stock ka vs stock sr, sr is the better choice. Stock ka with t25 or t28 vs stock sr, sr still is better. Built ka vs mildly built sr, sr still is the better decision. The amount you spend a ka-t could be spent on an sr swap. With a much better return on investment. Stock sr's can handle a hell of a lot more than a ka. Plus its lighter, plus the aftermarket is bigger, plus its a shit ton more reliable.


After having a stock ka24e, then a ka24de, then ka24det, then built ka24det. My mildly built sr (head work, valves, lifters, cams, 2871r) was the best decision i have ever made. I saved $1000's going the sr route.

Oh and yes i autoX and drift the car. I also run high speed time attack and door to door. And with an sr i lost enough points to drop me into a class the car is competitive in, and not a bunch of fully built lotus elise's.


Yes I have driven a 240sx with an SR swap (buddy's car, redtop w/upgraded S14 T28) and drove it in Autox, Drift and on track AND, I can say I liked it BUT not as much as how the power delivery is with the KA.

Guess you can say that I'm like any American: I like torque over high revving stuff haha.

SR is a good engine but I just prefer the KA more.

[DenkiMan!]

ive actually been thinking about the benefits of each route. i know that turbocharging any motor will pretty much cut its life in half, unless its a damn clean build, nothing was really cheaped out and you or the shop thats building it really knows what going on...and thats obviously pricier than just buying a turbo'd motor. personally i wouldnt trust dding a ka-t for the long run just because of things that could go wrong with turboing a motor that wasnt initially built for it.

things that go wrong with ka-t's are like what others have said, people who dont know what they're doing, cheaping out on parts and hitting boost everywhere you go lol. as for sr longblocks being expensive, 1500 for an sr longblock is outrageous, im seeing deals way cheaper than that in the fs section.

you wait for the right deal, getting a good sr isnt that much of a hassle.

ive driven (not hard) and been in sr powered cars and yea the smoothness is definitely a separating factor from ka-t's, but that obviously comes from the fact that they were built for it. ive been in a fairly built ka-t drift car and damn it was fast and looked really responsive, but for the long run, i'd prefer to go the sr route

[LBK S13]

Ka aftermarket parts don't have the selection that srs do but I love my ka and had ran it on stock internals up to ten lbs for years and pulled on srs all day I upgraded my bottom end just for added reliability and wouldn't change it. But I would like better big name companies to produce more parts. I have a good friend who's been running the exact same kat setup for 7 years daily driven and no major problems. Plus if you buy a ka from a vehicle that was wrecked with low mileage for say 250$ as I did and spend another 1200 on turbo parts for the same money you will have a better more reliable engine then having to do a swap and all the stuff that comes with it. KA24DET is tha shit!

[onewicked750]

This is a hard one for me, I've never had an S-Chassis that had a KA24 in it. However, I'm helping my friend put one together at the moment and I am impressed by the stoutness of the motor in stock-ish form let alone when he turbo's it. It is a bigger engine and with the right head and bottom end prep it would undoubtedly be better than an SR. On the other hand that is a TON of work to get the KA up to par with a performance oriented engine like the SR which as people have said has tried and true aftermarket support and can reliably put down 3~400 HP relatively cheaply. Also I personally think that SR feels better, and by that I mean it has smoother power delivery and doesn't sound like its gonna explode at high RPM. At the end of the day though it's really a personal choice, and I'll have to agree with Biggamehit on this one. If I didn't already have a few SR's from my time in Japan, I wouldn't bother with one here in the US... That said I DO have some SR's already so why not put them to use lol. Oh and @ Biggamehit, has Mickslippy thrashed my old 180 or is it still kickin out at MSP lol.

And for the OP as far as I know, the KA has a ton of support here already but you do have to do your homework like with anything else unless you drop a lot of money and just get bolt in kits for things.

[illvialuver]

Nice to see this is still continuing. As I suspected, wanted to say thanks for all the responses and feedback.

[zeitgeist]

I wasnt impressed when i drove an sr. This was after a driving a ka24e

The car just feels like its missing its balls without the torque

[illvialuver]

um Tomei sent a usdm ka powered s14 to Japan for the engineers to work on, saw it on their face book. Super exciting

[badbob2121]

I wasnt impressed when i drove an sr. This was after a driving a ka24e

The car just feels like its missing its balls without the torque

Totally bro, the KA24e is much more stout than any SR20...

Just look at the comparison on this chart..

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy317/badbob2121/822.jpg

:ddog:

[illvialuver]

Did anyone notice that Tomei sent their usdm KA24de powered s14 to Japan. I just wonder what they could be up to.

[Slims]

Tomei already put an official statement out saying that they were doing RnD on the KA24de for better aftermarket parts. they're a little late to the game, but im sure with the money they make, they can bring something new to the engine.

[illvialuver]

Dont think they are too late. I think it is good that they are not giving up on our cars, also most of their stuff is great quality, more options cant hurt when building a ka.

[RBX28DETT]

SR all the way for me..take care of it and it will keep the excitement coming.. mine goin on 4 years plenty of drift events under its belt and daily drive.. ASB2012 here to come (another one for the record)

[Slims]

I agree about having more options open. The KA has had a great amount of aftermaket support for years though. If Tomei wants to brake into the scene, they're going to have to put out more then some H and I beam rods. Something that's not common for the KA or small problems that other companies don't seem to adress. like functional adjustable cam sprockets, Not the Jim Wolf drilled "upgrades" I'm sure they will though, they never seem to disappoint. I'm just stating the facts.

[BossHogg]

Well technically, ka-t is illegal too because it won't be able to pass smog. It would be cool to have the kat parts more readily available and at a more affordable price though. I think people would really enjoy building their own engine themself rather than swapping a motor. Its just the experience is pretty cool, you know. What i'm trying to say is that people would be less intimidated to go with the kat route.:hsdance:

not all places have smog. Especially if your car is OBD 1 or older. So that shit doesn't matter at all. s14 guys might have a problem depending on your area of living.

[mmmS13]

Ka-T for me. I've ridden in 2 SR'd cars and driven 1. They are really smooth throughout the powerband, but I love the tq of my KA. Parts aren't too expensive and there are so many people that have gone SR that KA blocks go pretty cheap. Also, my KA has 230k miles on it and im making around 300whp. Its not really that fast but it is reliable power, hell I drove it 3k miles on a road trip.

[MadScientist]

I have built several engines, and as for 4 baggers go, the 4G63 is a beast! The only engine that comes close to it is the SR2?DET!

SR2?DET v:s KA2?DET
Yeah the KA has that butt dyno feel, but its not reliable, not built to hold boost, Long Stroke, Distributor, Truck Transmission, etc...and it will cost alot to fix these issues. Its also ugly, design and engineering wise! The SR is so much easier to play with and responds well to small bolt ons. Its easier to build a SR close to 400hp than a KA!!

Yes you will need to drop 2-3k on a SR to start, where you will also need to drop 2-3k on building a KAs internals. Its a toss up, and personal preference. Most people will start with KA(s), and quickly learn SRs are easier. Yes the SR is harder (more expensive) to get than KA, but its alot less likely to blow up. Yes you can blow up any engine and buying used engines from Japan is just as much a coin toss as buying an engine from any junk yard.

If your going to push limits, build it past those limits.
My SR is build and capable of supporting 1000hp, however the the supporting parts are set to the HP goal I want.
Start with Mantinance mods before getting into power mods always!!
Its sad how many people blow engines and didn't do a single supporting or mantinance mod.

[Pandadub92]

I personally was stuck between both set ups, in my opinion i love the idea of building either engine and if im honest i think the SR looks a lot cooler than a KA lol, but then again that wouldn't exactly be a deciding factor. I just look at what I've seen and felt. I think if you're going for raw power and looking for the underdog feel of surpassing an SR then go on and build your KA-T but if youre looking into being more of a performance based engine as far as time attack or a serious built race car then i dont see why you wouldnt go SR. but then again i see alot of people having an SR just to have an SR and same with the KA-T

[AJZax]

I can't vote. I like both of them a lot. lol

I just built 500whp SR, but part of me wishes I did the KA-T
But the SR naturally has a better flowing head, so build for displacement of KA and BAM best of both worlds. But costs 6 arms and 3 legs,.. I only have 2 of each.

If I didn't already have an SR wired in and stuff in my car when it blew up, I probably would've done KA-T, I almost switched wiring back to KA anyway!

If I were to start over.... I'd probably do a KA-T. The few pounds extra the KA weighs I think are worth it.

Just balance and forge rotating assembly, build the valve train a little (NO ROCKER ARM FAILURES WHAT?!?!?! MAGIC... freaking SR..... -_- ) KA-T aftermarket support is even getting better! If you're going to BUILD I'd say KA-T... if your'e going to do a mild 300whp... SR is hard to beat for reliability and cost effectiveness, 300whp is almost stock with a tune haha.

[illvialuver]

I dont think the sr head flows better. I want to see some kind of test proving this. Just saying. plus ka has a better valve train. I think its almost like oranges to tangerins, not apples to oranges. The biggest issue is probably the legality if it is your street car, with the ka you just throw your stock stuff back on, with the sr, you have to store a ka in your yard/ garage/ bedroom wherever just incase you get popped.

[240boi115]

I dont think the sr head flows better. I want to see some kind of test proving this. Just saying. plus ka has a better valve train. I think its almost like oranges to tangerins, not apples to oranges. The biggest issue is probably the legality if it is your street car, with the ka you just throw your stock stuff back on, with the sr, you have to store a ka in your yard/ garage/ bedroom wherever just incase you get popped.

i dont think thats completely true due to the fact that sr20de's were made and with that being na and having as much power as a ka they both are pretty equal.. the only REAL legality issue is the fact that the sr20 is a "swap" and the ka is already in the bay of your car.... as for better flow.. yeah i need proof. i have a ka now and id like to take the ka-t route. its different and being a previous sr20 owner id like to see the difference in feel and power/ torque.

[Kingtal0n]

Has anybody seen a KA-T with 400 horsepower go 100k+ Miles?
Just wondering if it's ever happened. Built or not. Or even 50k+ miles for that matter.

most of the build KA-T engines you see are freshly rebuilt, people selling them with 6k or 13k and such.

IF I was going to turbo the KA, I would turbo a STOCK bottom end KA, with a small oil-less rear-mount at about 7PSI using some 370-440CC injectors and a SAFC. No intercooler. Simple, low boost, elegant.

[240boi115]

Has anybody seen a KA-T with 400 horsepower go 100k+ Miles?
Just wondering if it's ever happened. Built or not. Or even 50k+ miles for that matter.

most of the build KA-T engines you see are freshly rebuilt, people selling them with 6k or 13k and such.

IF I was going to turbo the KA, I would turbo a STOCK bottom end KA, with a small oil-less rear-mount at about 7PSI using some 370-440CC injectors and a SAFC. No intercooler. Simple, low boost, elegant.

a rear mount on a 240sx? that just doesnt even sound elegant to me...

[Kingtal0n]

a rear mount on a 240sx? that just doesnt even sound elegant to me...

You pop the hood and see... nothing. "hey bro wheres your air filter?"

Clean install city. Spools faster than a t-25 on an SR20. No intercooler to display. SAFC in the glove box. Paint the injectors red.

Pretty damn elegant if you ask me.
use an automatic trans for best results (Surprise Mother Fu#&@rs!!)

[240boi115]

You pop the hood and see... nothing. "hey bro wheres your air filter?"

Clean install city. Spools faster than a t-25 on an SR20. No intercooler to display. SAFC in the glove box. Paint the injectors red.

Pretty damn elegant if you ask me.
use an automatic trans for best results (Surprise Mother Fu#&@rs!!)

sneaky, sly, and ninja as fuck yes... elegant eh. I picture elegant as being clean and perfectly engineered. and being seen. but i get what your going at.

Id be happy with a 300hp ka-t which doesnt seem too hard to achieve if done right.

[Kingtal0n]

"clean and perfectly engineered"- well, nothing is perfect. But the "clean" and "engineered" portion is up to the installer, fabricator, aka car owner. If it comes out poorly designed and implemented there is no one to blame except the owner.

Urban definition:
elegant "Engineer slang for a very clean or innovative way of solving a problem."

Problem: How to add 80 reliable horses to a stock KA engine while simultaneously removing more parts from the engine bay than you are adding.

[240boi115]

"clean and perfectly engineered"- well, nothing is perfect. But the "clean" and "engineered" portion is up to the installer, fabricator, aka car owner. If it comes out poorly designed and implemented there is no one to blame except the owner.

Urban definition:
elegant "Engineer slang for a very clean or innovative way of solving a problem."

Problem: How to add 80 reliable horses to a stock KA engine while simultaneously removing more parts from the engine bay than you are adding.

like i said i can see where you're coming from. i agree with you that its a good solution especially for people in cali. im just old fashioned i guess lol i like seeing the components in the engine bay where they should be xD
that being said though would you say the exhaust sound would be louder or more calm with the turbo being at the exhaust?

[Kingtal0n]

like i said i can see where you're coming from. i agree with you that its a good solution especially for people in cali. im just old fashioned i guess lol i like seeing the components in the engine bay where they should be xD
that being said though would you say the exhaust sound would be louder or more calm with the turbo being at the exhaust?

use the OEM muffler and it should be as quiet as stock. No need to go larger, oem exhaust can handle 300~ horsepower.

that said, if you wanted to be "seen" then just remove the muffler. I assume you thought the turbo would terminate at the tail- it does not have to. You can install the turbocharger anywhere in the plumbing that you can find room. I would actually prefer it to stay away from the oem plastic fuel tank, but that doesnt matter because you can always fabricate a nice shield. lots of options.

I feel that it would still be fairly quiet without a muffler as turbochargers have a slight muffler effect. but there is only one way to find out. It depends largely on whether you keep the oem exhaust plumbing that leads up to the turbocharger as well. My idea of a simple, reversible, clean install would probably use the oem muffler's flange, such that I could hang the turbocharger on the oem exhaust hangers that used to hang the muffler. I could easily remove the turbocharger by unbolting it from the OE (muffler's) location, and re-install the OEM muffler if I wanted to. I've never done an rear mount before so I am not sure it would work or is even feasible however.

[Kingtal0n]

the turbo I would use
CT2-4447
Comp Turbo - CT2 4447 Billet (http://www.compturbo.com/products/ct2billet/ct2_4447)
Its about $1800. The complete install would then likely cost $3000~ so you might as well do an SR swap if possible in your area.
For $4500~ you can install an S15 sr with a six speed including a fresh 3.4x differential with low mileage subframe arms/bushings etc... That would be my favored idea.
Use the OEM exhaust and an OEM sidemount- same effect, car looks stock ("ninja"). And theres your 280rwhp daily reliable for 150,000 miles.


Thus why I said, "if" I was going to turbo a KA.

[illvialuver]

i dont think thats completely true due to the fact that sr20de's were made and with that being na and having as much power as a ka they both are pretty equal...

Key word is think.
Do you think for one second that an sr20de ever came in any us 240sx?

NO. not ever, never legal in CA.

Plus look at the stock horse power and torque numbers of the ka24de and sr20de, furthermore if you were to chop the flanges on the exhuast runners of each the ka and the sr, and bolted the stock srturbo and injectors and side mount, the result would be the same.

ka= more power and more torque as long as the conditions are the same. same turbo same injectors, same engine management the ka wins na or turbo.

the only time when you have any real argument with the sr is when you consider the expensive ve head swap.

[Kingtal0n]

Key word is think.
Do you think for one second that an sr20de ever came in any us 240sx?




The SR20DE comes in many USA cars, such as nissan sentra. Its been produced since the 1989~ (you can google the exact dates) and is a very reliable daily driver engine for USA cars. That means it is OBD2 at some point and could realistically be installed into a 240sx and be EPA/DOT legal (unlike the sr20det), iirc thats all it needs. Just like an R33 skyline could be legally imported and EPA legal with the 350Z engine installed and working OBD2.

The KA engine has a displacement advantage, but that is it. Everything else about it is non-performance oriented and tends to stay that way regardless of what you do it. Any engine can be forced to breath airflow via turbocharger but it is clear that the SR20 was designed to do that and the KA was not from the longevity perspective.

[mmmS13]

Has anybody seen a KA-T with 400 horsepower go 100k+ Miles?
Just wondering if it's ever happened. Built or not. Or even 50k+ miles for that matter.

most of the build KA-T engines you see are freshly rebuilt, people selling them with 6k or 13k and such.



My stock block has 230k miles on it making around 400hp (crank hp should be around 350whp) Never dyno'd so I guess technically my guesstimate numbers don't count. Ive got maybe 3 oil changes under its belt and its holding fine, did you mean like 50k turbo'd or 50k on the engine with a turbo on it?

[kawitwofiddy]

When I first was sucked into the 240 world I thought like any other noob. And that was sr all the way. I was too dumb to realize that sr's were only "better" because they came stock turbo'd. I've learned over the past year of project 240's and reading on forums that a KA is the all around better choice. In the next month or so I will be putting a t25 on my stock KA. Patience is the key to the limited supply of A/M KA parts(which has grown since this thread started.) I picked up my internally wastegated t25 with a b/m KA manifold and sr turbo elbow for $175 shipped from the f/s section on here. Im going with the Megasquirt2 DIYPNP as a tune, and I don't plan to spend much more than a grand for all my turbo parts, not cutting any corners. I feel the reliability of both motors lies in the tune mainly. The SR20 comes stock with an almost perfectly tuned ecu, as the ecu's used for the KA-T are mostly reflashed and tuned to perfection. Your motor that is being turbo'd needs to be checked and have a few tests ran if you are expecting top reliability. Sorry for ranting but after reading four pages of comments I needed to share my .02 cents.

Bottom Line: I would love to see more aftermarket parts available to the KA world, and i'e noticed cxracing to be impressive on their more moderate parts- intercoolers, radiators, hoses etc. I feel along with more support for ka-t aftermarket product, will come more KA-Ters an will eliminate the price that I love oh so much for them. I also oppose the support of a/m parts because i love the d.i.y. custom style that rides with many KA's. It shows one of two things- someones got money, or someone know their shit. Theres my two cents for ya

[AJZax]

I just built an s13 SR for 500whp for pro-am. Next season looking at hitting 550whp with response with different turbo setup. Right now, Complete tomei valvetrain with ferrea oversized valves, all the headwork to support it, twin scroll 3076 setup, blended and port matched intake and exhaust manifolds, CP 87mm 9:1 comp, eagle rods, cosworth, acl, arp everywhere.......

NOW I feel as if I should've built a KAT -_- I ALMOST did but I was scared.

KA advantages
-no rocker arms
-high flowing head (flows more like a VE head, and with headwork even more)
-super low starting costs (you can score KAs for free sometimes.. lolll literally)

SR advantages
-more options for aftermarket support
-out of the box reliability and performance
-stock SR can push out as much as the tranny can reliably. perfect. Slap on fuel and bigger turbo tune it and get some seat time

If you're going all out build I'd say KA is way to go. It's a little heavier than an SR, buuuut I think it's worth the few lbs lol.

KA needs:
-rotating assembly balanced
-cheezy rods replaced
-forced induction friendly pistons (not comrpession ratio, ring land to piston face distance)
-bigger head studs lol (for 700whp etc) (rb26 ones fit with machining from what I've seen)

Anyone wanna buy my SR so I can build a KA? :p lolol
I haven't even broken it in yet! haha It's got like 30 miles on it.

How much you think a built SR would sell for with xcessive z32 conversion for s14? (just curious)


BTW guy above me, I'd recommend RS-Enthalpy. KA-T guys here have great luck with them, RS-Enthalpy tunes are spot on and super cost effective. We have a guy here with a GT35 setup with lots of custom fab and he's currently switching from JWT to Enthalpy. Even had a guy switch from series 2 AEM to enthalpy. Just food for thought.

[kawitwofiddy]

BTW guy above me, I'd recommend RS-Enthalpy. KA-T guys here have great luck with them, RS-Enthalpy tunes are spot on and super cost effective. We have a guy here with a GT35 setup with lots of custom fab and he's currently switching from JWT to Enthalpy. Even had a guy switch from series 2 AEM to enthalpy. Just food for thought.

im kinda in favor of eliminating the whole maf sensor idea plus I will be paying three hundred dollars and learning how to tune my own car. I am completely DIY crazy so why the fuck not? haha

[Tht1ae86]

Sr20det hands down

[Mikester]

I prefer the SR- not because I think it's any better; but because it's the only motor I really know anything about (not all that much- but enough to be dangerous lol).

[illvialuver]

When my set up gets going ( picking up the spare ka to build this weekend) it will have forged internals, whatever I can get from Tomei headwise, turbo wise, and with the money invested I will not even think of reflashing a ecu, I am just going to pick up an AEM standalone unit, and pay for the tuning.

[bc.]

all I care about is the DET part.

[miamiman323]

I've had a stock sr and then a stock block ka-t. After getting the ka I pretty much decided ill never go sr again. I love the torque of the ka and I never really was into revving the shit out of a motor anyway so the ka was perfect for me. Now I have a built KA with an HX35 for this summer and can't wait to do some driving. Hopefully it won't be too laggy or else ill go back to the t3t4 I had before.

I think it all comes down to whether you like a motor with low end torque or a motor that screams up top. All comes down to preference and driving style.

[spools420a]

I have a sr20 but would prefer the ka24 for the same reason when i turbocharged my non turbo talon,you can go to the junk yard and get a shortblock for as cheap as $40 on half price day or a longblock for not much more and have your blown motor up and running for cheap.iy=ts very ideal especially for learning curve.

[240taylen]

I prefer the Sr over the ka because it's more power to start off with and could get a substantial amount more with a few mods. I have a s13 sr black top owned for a couple months now. I traded an s14 with a ka with a rebuilt head and my jeep for it. Anywho. I'm not much of a trader and I loved my s14 but I rode in the s13 at track for a day. On 13pounds stock setup. No problems the thing was a blast. But in all honesty it probably won't be too long until I buy another ka and hopefully boost it because there so plentiful here in the states and originally learning to drift with a ka it's a great motor! IV heard people boosting them all stock and being reliable as hell! Putting down Lil over 200.. on second thought that's about a stock Sr lol

[wussmonster]

SR all the way for me. As far as legality or smog goes, I just throw the stock cat on and drive to deq. Car passes every time.

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