My instructor on track day broke off my front bumper :(

[jacobzking]

so i was at track day for the 2nd time this past saturday, and on the very first lap out (it was a wet day) the instructor driving my car spun the car out and ripped off my front bumper. a bumper is going to cost me about $300 shipped to TX, plus I'll have to pay another $200+ to get it painted. so I'm about about $500. the track offered to give me 2 free track days (a $300 value) which was nice of them I think... and they suggested that the instructor pay the difference.

should I hit up the instructor for the other $200? he was the one that wrecked the car. but at the same time, it was an accident, and I know that he doesn't get paid to be there (just free track time).

FWIW... i recently bought this car and had it shipped all the way from Cali to TX because it was a good clean shell with a new paint job. yeah, its a track car, but I do take care of it, and until this happened, the exterior was PERFECT.

advice?

[SmokeCircle]

First off, your a little bitch.
Second, if you think your so good that you wont go off track and cause the same thing, then tell me why you had an instructor driving your car?
And Third, the fact that the track is offering you 2 free events is enough of a prize for your dumb ass. my two local tracks are closing down drifting, and one of them is closing completely because drifters cant bring as much money as other forms of racing.

you suck

[fckillerbee]

^^^ wtf?

Assuming it was the instructors fault, and not the cars malfucntion, I would ask for something.

But again, instructors are there to help learn....predicting control of a cars setup is the first thing I test out before going balls out. And even then..it's not my car...don't go balls out.

I think the two free track events was more than enough for the orginization. But at the same time...you aren't going to have a clean car if you are drifting...it's FACT.

[ma.jomaa]

I would say that you should ask the instructor to cover the remainig amount, its true he doesn't get paid to be there but none the less he know's the inherent risk associated with drifting somebody's car therefore he should be prepared to pay should an unfortunate incident like yours happens, at least that's what I would do if i were him.

[OutlawLui]

just take the 2 days

it was on a track anyway. stuff happens

[jacobzking]

none the less he know's the inherent risk associated with drifting somebody's car

just take the 2 days

it was on a track anyway. stuff happens

^^^ wtf?

Assuming it was the instructors fault, and not the cars malfucntion, I would ask for something.

But again, instructors are there to help learn....predicting control of a cars setup is the first thing I test out before going balls out. And even then..it's not my car...don't go balls out.

I think the two free track events was more than enough for the orginization. But at the same time...you aren't going to have a clean car if you are drifting...it's FACT.

it wasn't even drifting, it was a road course. drifting i could understand. drifting is just asking to bang up your car. but on a road course... too predictable. in fact, the chief instructor said that's never happened (instructor wrecking car) in the 19 years he's been instructing.

evilpanama, i agree. but at the same time, i've been to several track days and NEVER see cars get wrecked because there's only passing allowed on passing zones, and the lead car has to give the ok to pass. there's really no reason for cars to get banged up physically during track days... other than someone just being careless.

i may just ask him to pay me $150 which is what it would have cost him to drive on track day (since he gets to drive free as an instructor). that way.. he pays the same amount as if he just went to track day like anyone else. seem fair? andy the other $300 track credit will just about pay for the bumper and paint all together. $450 will be pretty close to my cost to repair.

I like the instructor, he's a cool guy and he felt really bad.

[KA-T_240]

I want to know where you can get a track day for $150???????? Everywhere up here is 275-400 for the day.

[jacobzking]

I want to know where you can get a track day for $150???????? Everywhere up here is 275-400 for the day.

damn! thats expensive. seems like they are usually $100-200. on the zilvia home page i always see the advertised for like $100-115. this place here is only $150 and MotorSport Ranch is about the same (also a really nice track).

some of the companies o 2 day events that are closer to the $300-400 range but thats usually only four 2 day events.

[blueshark123]

First off, your a little bitch.
Second, if you think your so good that you wont go off track and cause the same thing, then tell me why you had an instructor driving your car?
And Third, the fact that the track is offering you 2 free events is enough of a prize for your dumb ass. my two local tracks are closing down drifting, and one of them is closing completely because drifters cant bring as much money as other forms of racing.

you suck

Wow your a fucking dumb ass e-thug behind the computer. The first thing I was going to say was how the fuck you know he was drifting at all. Not every 240 fucking drifts.

I think instructor should pay fuck it. If i did it to someones car i would pay him cause i felt bad

[fckillerbee]

ahhh...track day.


yeah, i've seen dudes go off course in someone elses car. But damn...you just don't go balls out right off the bat. fuck. yeah...track day...dude should pay for it. Tell him not to lock up the brakes next time rookie ;D

[Fries]

IDK. Track car, track day. Shit happens. You basically got $300 for it. I'd get the bumper and paint it and enjoy.

You live you learn, you don't need an newb instructor fucking your shit.

[hOngsterr]

you let him drive your car, your fault, just like at track you crash your car there, you can't claim insurance either, going to track voids your insurance.
the people who hosted was nice enough to give you two track days.

[jacobzking]

you let him drive your car, your fault, just like at track you crash your car there, you can't claim insurance either, going to track voids your insurance.
the people who hosted was nice enough to give you two track days.

i don't think the expectation of an INSTRUCTOR is that they will crash your car. after removing the bumper I went out there and did about 20 laps and I didn't crash. i didn't hire the instructor, not did I provide the instructor, nor did I request that the instructor drive my car... the track coordinator did.

but yes, i am grateful that they gave me 2 track days for free, because that is $300 that would have been spent by me one way or another.

[speedracer5]

i say take the bumper suck it up dont paint it its for off road anyways who u tryen to impress ahhahaha

[jacobzking]

i say take the bumper suck it up dont paint it its for off road anyways who u tryen to impress ahhahaha

yeah... but I bought the car from 1100 miles away and paid to have it shipped here because it was a good clean shell with fresh paint and a well fit body kit. its no beater. if the car was torn up already, then fuck it. but it wasnt. it IS a track day car, and just about the only time I drive it is to the track and on the track... but I still want it to look nice. just like all the guys out there in there $50,000+ vettes and $100,000+ porsches that keep there cars in good shape, I want mine in just as good of shape cosmetically. there's no reason that when I do drive my 240 around town, I should have to do so without a front bumper, or without a painted bumper.

i'm the kind of person that takes extremely good care of my shit. whenever i sell a camera, or lens, or computer, or whatever... my shit always looks new. i work hard for my shit, so i take care of it.

I actually had someone there to get photos of me on the track.. it would have been nice if these photos had a bumper in them.

to those of you that actually DO participate in track days, you know that damage to cars is pretty rare. if it was an actual race event, it would be different. but it wasn't.

this is before and after. i literally just took this first photo right before going to the track:

[OutlawLui]

If the rules and regulations don't protect the instructors from any lyabiliity than he does have to pay but it's up to you if your going to make him. He can at least help u out wth some cash since those track days won't cost them anything.matching paint and a descent bumper are going to be pretty pricey

[jacobzking]

you don't need an newb instructor fucking your shit.

lol... the instructor was about 20 years younger than all the other instructors. most of the instructors were in the late 40s or 50s. this kid was probably in his late 20s... younger than me I'm sure.

i don't know how he could possibly have that much track time.

don't get me wrong, i like the guy and I like HOW he instructs... I just don't think he has a whole lot of experience, maybe not enough to be instructing.

thats also part of my complaint. the track charges me to go out there and drive on their track. i'm paying for 2 things; track usage and an instructor.

if the track is too cheap to pay instructors (maybe thats how it is every where) then they should be responsible for what their instructors do.

[speedracer5]

bllllahh shit give me 30 bucks ill fix it up real nice (zipties) lol jk jk i see ur point but if ur looking to track and try and keep it clean like the guys with the vettes. see theres ur prob they have the money for it and to not care. if u dont want it to get it faaaked up then dont put it on the track my 2 cents but as i can see u have gone this far with all other zilvia members just go ask the dude for the money u know its gonna end up like that. ur just gonna keep getting burned on here just saying

[jacobzking]

If the rules and regulations don't protect the instructors from any lyabiliity than he does have to pay but it's up to you if your going to make him. He can at least help u out wth some cash since those track days won't cost them anything.matching paint and a descent bumper are going to be pretty pricey

bumper plaus paint is around $500 if I'm lucky and get a bumper that doesn't need a load of work. the track is giving me $300 in track time so I'm only out about $200. if the instructor pays me $150 (what he would have had to pay for track time if he went as a non-instructor) then I'm at $450 and only out of pocket roughly $50-100.

seems fair to me.

also, knowing that the guy spent $20,000 rebuilding his porsche engine recently and lives in a swank part of town... I don't feel so bad hitting him up for $150.

[jacobzking]

see theres ur prob they have the money for it and to not care. if u dont want it to get it faaaked up then dont put it on the track

that would be true if other cars were regularly wrecking and getting banged up. but that doesn't happen on track day. like i said, i've driven that track 2 different times, over 40 laps on it and not once have i so much as even scraped my bumper.

doesn't matter if you're in a miata, 240, lambo, vette, porsche... if you're careful enough and a good driver... you won't destroy your car on track day.

the idea that just because you're on a track, you will wreck, is wrong.

i've been to track day as a spectator MANY times and I don't think I've ever seen a car sustain damage like that. sure, it happens. but not all the time and not to everyone.

[lude4life13]

LOL at zilvians always assuming a S-Chassis at a track is drifting..

[Breitling]

Take the two free days. thats it

[ghoti]

Reading all your replies to others people's comments makes it seem like you already made up your mind on what you want to do.

[hOngsterr]

well, imo, i wouldnt let anyone drive my car even though its an instructor at track, i'v also been reminded not to let any instructor drive your car since if they damage your car they can't be put liable for it insurance wise, thats why you let them drive their car and give you pointers on what lines to take etc. But crashes happen, cars get flipped pile ups etc, So hopefully you get everything settled.

[jacobzking]

Reading all your replies to others people's comments makes it seem like you already made up your mind on what you want to do.

for the most part, yes. but i'm open to suggestions. if the track would just give me 3 track days instead of 2, that would pretty much cover the bumper and paint. but they are pretty set on 2.

the instructor is offering to pay, its not that he doesn't want to, its that i feel bad asking him to because i'm sympathetic. but at the same time, i can't afford to fix it right away, and don't feel that i should have to out of my pocket.

[KwKouki]

if you feel bad then dont ask. its pretty cut and dry man. you let him drive your car, shit happens on the track. be glad it was just a bumper. the situation sucks yea but this is what you deal with being on the track.

either man up and ask for money from him. or be a cool guy and take the two free days that was awesome enough to be offered. a few tracks i know would have said fuck off and have a nice day.

[KJWinky]

ZIP TIE IT!!!!!!! take the free ones and call it a day

[jacobzking]

ZIP TIE IT!!!!!!! take the free ones and call it a day

you can't zip tie it when its broken in to pieces

[mantas]

An ex racecar mechanic at my work told me if you track your car and something happens you are on your own, and he has seen fights and crying happen left and right because someone didnt expect to be hit. Its a track day shit happens take the $300 track time, fix it and dont let anyone drive your car.

[jacobzking]

dont let anyone drive your car.

THE TRACK MANDATES THAT AN INSTRUCTOR DRIVE YOUR CAR AROUND FOR THE FIRST 1-2 LAPS.

I already knew the track and asked if we could skip before we got started and just let me drive, but the track made him drive it.

[KJWinky]

that sucks!!! If that be the case. then hell yeah get your money for your bumper from the guy and take the free session.... seems like the instructor just needed to test out your car to make sure you didnt have terrible suspension.... not if your car can handle 60mph around a hairpin turn.....

[KJWinky]

bullshit you cant ziptie stich it in pieces. thats why people do it....

[mantas]

THE TRACK MANDATES THAT AN INSTRUCTOR DRIVE YOUR CAR AROUND FOR THE FIRST 1-2 LAPS.

I already knew the track and asked if we could skip before we got started and just let me drive, but the track made him drive it.

If thats the case they need to pony up the other $200. Thats bullsheit!

[jacobzking]

that sucks!!! If that be the case. then hell yeah get your money for your bumper from the guy and take the free session.... seems like the instructor just needed to test out your car to make sure you didnt have terrible suspension.... not if your car can handle 60mph around a hairpin turn.....

when you go to track day, they split you in to 4 categories based on track experience, and based on your experience on that track. if you're in blue or green (first 2 levels), they have the instructor drive you around the track. its mandatory.

i was JUST on that exact same track just about 3 weeks prior. my car was the same. my instructor was the same. i knew the track since i had just been there... that's why i asked if i could just drive the whole time.

i even explained to him that the Star Spec tires are very poor tires for wet tracks about 30 seconds before he put the car in the grass.

he was just driving a car that he wasn't familiar with too aggressively. it wasn't a race; there was no reason for him to be driving that hard, on a car with that much torque and dry racing tires.

[Banana_Cute]

If it wasnt your choice to have an instructor, then they should cover it. I'd understand if you wanted an instructor.

After all, they are instructor, they should know the track like the back of their hands. then again, shit does happen. Maybe if you guys can go half on the cost.. or even 70-30 if that.

[jacobzking]

If it wasnt your choice to have an instructor, then they should cover it. I'd understand if you wanted an instructor.

After all, they are instructor, they should know the track like the back of their hands. then again, shit does happen. Maybe if you guys can go half on the cost.. or even 70-30 if that.

yeah, i just messaged the guy and told him i'd split the difference with him. i think thats more than fair. that way he's only out of pocket $150 and same for me... $150

[slider2828]

That is a dumbass track rule. It should be the instructor driving you in his own car. Then the instructor sits with you.... But whatever....

The instructor was stupid. I go to the track a lot and my seats are bolted straight down to the frame. It would be nice if he chipped in, but I wouldn't expect him to.

Like someone said its a trackday, track shit happens....

[jamg]

buy the bumper, and have your instructor get it painted.

and take those free track days.

[hOngsterr]

weird, usually when you have to follow instructors cars, not let them drive your car.

i guess TX and CA are different.

[andisan]

I dont think the instructor has to pay for anything, only because it sounds like he is an employe of the track, and an employe of a buisness should be covered by the buisness insurance, and the track giving you "track time" is a way of them telling you that they where at fault, so I would have them cover more than "track time".

I wouldnt let anyone drive my car anyways, i dont care if those are the rules, I dont trust anyone but me, that way if anything happens I blame myself, and skip all the BS

[jacobzking]

I dont think the instructor has to pay for anything, only because it sounds like he is an employe of the track, and an employe of a buisness should be covered by the buisness insurance, and the track giving you "track time" is a way of them telling you that they where at fault, so I would have them cover more than "track time".

I wouldnt let anyone drive my car anyways, i dont care if those are the rules, I dont trust anyone but me, that way if anything happens I blame myself, and skip all the BS

thats how i feel about it. but thats not the case. anyhow, i talked to the instructor last night and told him that the track was giving me the 2 free sessions that would cover the cost of the bumper by itself and that I'm out about $300 total. I offered to split the $300 and here's what he said:

"OK man that sounds pretty generous of you and of Maggie [the track coordinator] so if it's cool and it's your final decision let's do that
I will call Maggie and let her know what we decided on and she'll know that she should be expecting you for free twice"

I think that was the most fair resolve to everyone (short of the track just covering it since it was their policy and their instructor).

[S-Nation S13]

Eh? Why bring your trophy car to the track. Knowing your not pro shit is bound to happen. You instructor ripped the front bumper off he had "skill" as for you you might of just fucked more shit up other than the front bumper. Just take the track days, be balla as fuck in drifting.end of the fucking story. Why do people ask for advice on here like shit really matters. It's your fucking car deal with it, quick asking for opinions from others. That's like asking shit there a bomb ass chick right there should I smash or not..come on guys tell me what to do..

[jacobzking]

Eh? Why bring your trophy car to the track. Knowing your not pro shit is bound to happen. You instructor ripped the front bumper off he had "skill" as for you you might of just fucked more shit up other than the front bumper. Just take the track days, be balla as fuck in drifting.end of the fucking story. Why do people ask for advice on here like shit really matters. It's your fucking car deal with it, quick asking for opinions from others. That's like asking shit there a bomb ass chick right there should I smash or not..come on guys tell me what to do..

i bring my car to track days for exactly what it is on track day; high performance driving experience...not a race... not a drifting competition.

i was asking for other suggestions to see if anyone had other ideas or perspectives. and again, it wasn't a drifting event. READ THE THREAD i'm not saying i have more skill, because i definitely do not, but i managed 20 laps that day without a single spin out or loss of controlled grip. he wrecked on turn 5 out of 11 on the first lap (less than halfway through just one lap on the course).

[hOngsterr]

I dont think the instructor has to pay for anything, only because it sounds like he is an employe of the track, and an employe of a buisness should be covered by the buisness insurance, and the track giving you "track time" is a way of them telling you that they where at fault, so I would have them cover more than "track time".

I wouldnt let anyone drive my car anyways, i dont care if those are the rules, I dont trust anyone but me, that way if anything happens I blame myself, and skip all the BS

dude, instructors dont get paid, they just get noticed or they ask to be instructors and get the free track day, learn how to spell business too, jesus.

Track doesn't give you time, the person who host's the event at the track gives you the free event. Just by offering the free track events was nice enough.

I don't believe you have ever been in a event before to speak your mind, if you have i apologize.

to OP live and learn.
also your front bumpers fiberglass?

[jacobzking]

dTrack doesn't give you time, the person who host's the event at the track gives you the free event. Just by offering the free track events was nice enough.

to OP live and learn.
also your front bumpers fiberglass?

this track is a little different in that it actually IS the track that does the track day (not a 3rd party driving school) so that makes it a little easier on them to give me free track time since they own the track. so they're not out any money (other than giving up 1 spot for free).

yeah... fiberglass.

[hOngsterr]

y u no get jdm oem lol

[TrustS13]

Buy an OEM JDM kouki bumper that's plastic.. and the lip, and never break them again.

[S-Nation S13]

i bring my car to track days for exactly what it is on track day; high performance driving experience...not a race... not a drifting competition.

i was asking for other suggestions to see if anyone had other ideas or perspectives. and again, it wasn't a drifting event. READ THE THREAD i'm not saying i have more skill, because i definitely do not, but i managed 20 laps that day without a single spin out or loss of controlled grip. he wrecked on turn 5 out of 11 on the first lap (less than halfway through just one lap on the course).

Doesn't matter one way or the other .. Either your we're gonna fuck up or he was...it's bound to happen no one perfect.. Drifting or not you can still eff up your car.. What the fuck do you want to say.."so I went to track today guys, my teacher effed up my car, so what do I do guys ?" threads fucking stupid, this is exactly why zilvia's gone to shit, your a grown ass man do what you think is right. End of story. End of thread.

[jacobzking]

Doesn't matter one way or the other .. Either your we're gonna fuck up or he was...it's bound to happen no one perfect.. Drifting or not you can still eff up your car.. What the fuck do you want to say.."so I went to track today guys, my teacher effed up my car, so what do I do guys ?" threads fucking stupid, this is exactly why zilvia's gone to shit, your a grown ass man do what you think is right. End of story. End of thread.

its very narrow minded to think that i shouldn't explore all my options.

and just because i track the car, does NOT mean that I'm eventually going to destroy the bumper. i could have gone the rest of the year without destroying it. and maybe by then I'm ready to sell the car... so why should I have to sell it without a bumper?

i just came here to get opinions from other people with track experience.

its people like you that have no useful input on this thread, that just create posts to get bigger thread counts, that make forums go to shit.

[slammed04tsx]

Do what you think is right is what i gotta say if you want him to pay ask him if you don't thats your call noone is gonna hate you for doing it or not doing it all just a personal choice

[Matej]

Have your insurance company total the car.

[Jaketenpointo]

Its unrelated to the conversation, but I like the way it looks without the bumper.

That said, I think a couple track days is a reasonable exchange. Not saying that you don't take care of your car, but s*** happens at the track, and sometimes things break. BUT, if you feel like he was taking unnecessary risk with your car then maybe he should pay.

[Schwiegz]

you can't zip tie it when its broken in to pieces

You obviously havent driven a Nissan for long...

OP, its tough. Personally, Id take the 2 track days and call it a day. You can zip tie the hell outta the front bumper FOR NOW. While your in the process of disregarding females, and acquiring currency, you can drive it and enjoy the "battle" styled look lol. Than, when youve saved up the 500 bones, you can get the shit fixed no problem AND you got 2 free track days.

Sucks for the time being in your mind because it doesnt look clean, but I wouldnt mind it like that lol. Not to mention you've already waited to get the car. Couple more weeks couldnt possibly hurt ;)

[hOngsterr]

jacob this isnt a forum really for racing lol.

try nissanroadracing.com

[VNG704]

If you plan on going back to the track again after the two free days, just take the two days and be happy. If he offers to pay and you really want some cash from him, tell him it was an expensive accident but still just an accident so you'll let him decide how much to offer you. It'll be in your favor to not sound like a pissed off dick even though you're probably in the right to ask for compensation. Really though, you should expect accidents, even though you haven't had one at the track yet.

[Black R]

THE TRACK MANDATES THAT AN INSTRUCTOR DRIVE YOUR CAR AROUND FOR THE FIRST 1-2 LAPS.

I already knew the track and asked if we could skip before we got started and just let me drive, but the track made him drive it.


Then he should pay.

End of story.

[Davidmic747]

poop nuggets, next before you let someone else drive it tell them "you wreck it, you fix it"

[jacobzking]

You obviously havent driven a Nissan for long...


i did my first SR swap in 1999

[0wn3r]

This thread is full of "Zilvia" and I think the only logical poster besides the OP has been hOngsterr.

If you want real world advice: The track or club that you race with typically makes you sign a form that does not make them liable for any damage that happens while you're out there. By signing those forms and allowing the instructor to drive makes them liable for nothing (generally speaking). Not only is the instructor and track not liable, but this also applies to YOU coming into contact with SOMEONE ELSE and SOMEONE ELSE coming into contact with YOU.

At the club I've raced with, I've always preferred to drive myself and let them sit in the passenger seat after a lesson learned during auto-x where someone did not listen to me when I said the car does not have ABS and will lock up. That way I avoid any of this mess and if it's my fault then it's my fault.

I think 2 free track days is better than nothing, which I'm guessing would happen if it was a club instructor rather than a track-employed instructor. It's good that it seems like you emailed him without sounding like a raging Zilvia teenager. He could have said no to you in this situation and there would have obviously just been bad blood between you two. I'm actually very surprised he is splitting the difference with you and that's very generous of him. For that matter, even the track didn't need to give you anything...and $200 is fairly cheap. (Lowest I've seen by me is $425 for two days or $225 for one.)

From what I've read, Star Specs actually handle quite well in wet conditions.

[Rag]

ALL drivers that participate in motorsports MUST be well aware of the risks to you and your vehicle.

Suck it it because you need to pay to play in any motorsport.

[jacobzking]

ALL drivers that participate in motorsports MUST be well aware of the risks to you and your vehicle.

Suck it it because you need to pay to play in any motorsport.

lol, you must be 16. you're clearly missing the point that the track coordinator (who supplies the instructors) made me let the instructor drive my car. the instructor clearly doesn't have enough experience to be instructing on wet surfaces is he can't get my car around the track one time without taking it off the track. this didn't have to do with me or my driving.

its easy to use some stupid cliche about paying to play, but you've offered no real advice. i wasn't "playing," the instructor was.

[fatduece]

So if I wanted to get into hpd, I would have to let the instructor drive my car?Thats terrible. Its not like they driven every car in the world and know how they all react. If we have to let them drive our cars, could we at least tell them to take it easy? Though that will probably upset them, since they cant abuse a car they dont even own.

[jacobzking]

So if I wanted to get into hpd, I would have to let the instructor drive my car?Thats terrible. Its not like they driven every car in the world and know how they all react. If we have to let them drive our cars, could we at least tell them to take it easy? Though that will probably upset them, since they cant abuse a car they dont even own.

thats how it is out here. i wouldn't worry to much about it happening to you. like i said before, the chief instructor who has done HPDEs for 19 years has never in 19 years seen this happen... because it shouldn't. there's no real reason why the guy should have wrecked my car other than he was being careless.

so with that said, if you want to go do HPDEs... go do it and don't worry about this happening. it can, but its VERY unlikely.

as far as him not knowing how the car drives, that's really not an excuse. for the most car, FF cars drive like FF cars. FR cars drive like FR cars, MR cars drive like MR cars... for the most part.

normally instructors won't have any problem getting behind the wheel of just about anything with 4 wheels.

but I do like the advice someone here gave me... tell the instructor "you brake it, you buy it" up front so its not an issue. they may disagree right away though, and if its a track policy that they have to let the instructor drive... then make the decision whether or not to participate. they are their for their own personal gain: free track time, free experience, free hamburger. they should have some responsibility.

[0wn3r]

So if I wanted to get into hpd, I would have to let the instructor drive my car?Thats terrible. Its not like they driven every car in the world and know how they all react. If we have to let them drive our cars, could we at least tell them to take it easy? Though that will probably upset them, since they cant abuse a car they dont even own.

For HPDEs they shouldn't be abusing the car at all. The point is to drive the car and show you the line you can take with the general setup of your car. Some will even say they drive it only ~75%, but that's assuming he/she knows where it is in relation to the 100%. If you let them beat on it, then they will. If it's mandatory and you're not comfortable, say so. Say you want him/her to show you the line and take it easy.

Of course, there's other things besides the experience of the instructor that could have come into play that may have caused the accident as well (water, oil/fluids, car setup, tires, etc. etc.)

[codyace]

As they say in our drivers meetings 'Even Mario Andretti Crashes'


I know it sucks he went off with your car, but at the end of the day it's not (at least sounding) like he was being negligent with the car. Does it suck he banged a bumper up? Sure...but to be offered 2 free track days and *only* have it being a bumper...I'd consider that a 'small price to pay' after having seen many cars crash up big time on track, both on the instructor/HPDE level and race level.



I personally would not expect a dime from the instructor. I'd accept anything he may help put toward your car, in the grand scheme of things you knew the rules and accepted the potential risk. Again, it's not like he meant to loop it.

[jacobzking]

For HPDEs they shouldn't be abusing the car at all. The point is to drive the car and show you the line you can take with the general setup of your car. Some will even say they drive it only ~75%, but that's assuming he/she knows where it is in relation to the 100%.

i think that's how I feel. this wasn't a race, or even timing laps... he was simply supposed to be showing me the line and got carried away.


I know it sucks he went off with your car, but at the end of the day it's not (at least sounding) like he was being negligent with the car...

I personally would not expect a dime from the instructor. I'd accept anything he may help put toward your car, in the grand scheme of things you knew the rules and accepted the potential risk. Again, it's not like he meant to loop it.

Its been resolved. The track is basically paying for the actual bumper (in free track time), and the instructor and I are splitting the cost of getting it painted.

I think Own3r nailed it though. There was no reason for him to have crashed, no reason for him to be driving as aggressively as he was... on a wet track... on a car he wasn't familiar with... 30 seconds after I told him the tires were very slick on wet tracks... None of the other instructors OR drivers wrecked that day.

I'm just happy that I was able to work something out that he and I agreed on as being fair. I think he knew he made a mistake and offered to pay right away. I think that if I had asked him to pay the entire amount in cash, he would have. But I wouldn't have felt right about doing that.

[davidpham]

ziptie the bumper! and call it a day

[kikcaffine]

Maybe it would be more prudent next time to get a stock-ish looking bumper made of urethane incase something like this happens again to have as a "track" bumper.

[jacobzking]

Maybe it would be more prudent next time to get a stock-ish looking bumper made of urethane incase something like this happens again to have as a "track" bumper.

yeah. theres a guy locally selling the us oem bumper with lip for $300. i've also considered the JDM bumper/lip combo.

who else makes urethane bumpers?

[fckillerbee]

Maybe it would be more prudent next time to get a stock-ish looking bumper made of urethane incase something like this happens again to have as a "track" bumper.


why are people idiots.

this is a road course. not drift event. The chief instructor said it's never happened in 19 YEARS!.

I'm sure he wont expect it to happen again...:doh:

[shinhed]

The instructor did you a favor. Fuck fiberglass.

[jdm213]

honestly things happen and drifting isnt perfect and ur cryng for a bumper that i can find for you for like 60 bux right here on the forums and give it to a mexican so he can paint it for a 6 pack of corona .. there done deal

[jacobzking]

honestly things happen and drifting isnt perfect and ur cryng for a bumper that i can find for you for like 60 bux right here on the forums and give it to a mexican so he can paint it for a 6 pack of corona .. there done deal

you're a dumbass. its been mentioned about a dozen times or more that it was NOT drifting!!!

and if you can get a replacement bumper to me in TX for $60 then I'll take back the dumbass comment. but seeing how shipping is more than $60 by itself... i kind of doubt it.

[Csomme]

Holy shit people are retarded. I'm glad you got it sorted out. I kind of think that the thread was dumb, because a bumper isn't that big of a deal, but it was entertaining, and I agree with your POV Jacob.

[Def]

What club was this with?

It is common in TX to have instructors drive the car for a couple of laps at the beginning of the day at a low speed without helmets for green students. It should be at low speed, but that said, the old track at MSR-C (which it looks like the OP was driving on) is *HORRIBLE* in the wet. Think about the slickest surface you've ever driven around, then make it twice as slick. In the wet my lap times are 3-4x lower than in the dry (on some tracks that only goes up by about 0.2-0.4x).


Stuff like this is also why I'm a bit reluctant to instruct sometimes. It's an almost thankless job, and you work A LOT for the "free track time" that sometimes you don't even feel like "enjoying" after being slung around out there all weekend.


As for someone in their late 20's not having enough experience to instruct, I'm 30 and I've got more track experience than the vast majority of people I see at the track. If you thought his instruction was good, then I wouldn't read too much into his age.


It really sounds to me like you're trying to justify guilt tripping the instructor into giving you money even though you signed a liability waiver before ever driving into the paddock that weekend.

[jacobzking]

What club was this with?

It is common in TX to have instructors drive the car for a couple of laps at the beginning of the day at a low speed without helmets for green students. It should be at low speed...

As for someone in their late 20's not having enough experience to instruct, I'm 30 and I've got more track experience than the vast majority of people I see at the track. If you thought his instruction was good, then I wouldn't read too much into his age.

It really sounds to me like you're trying to justify guilt tripping the instructor into giving you money even though you signed a liability waiver before ever driving into the paddock that weekend.

it was at eagles canyon and like you said, he should have been driving at low speed.

the guy offered right off the bat to pay, but i was looking for alternatives which i have come up with one.

have you ever wrecked a students car?

[skyline084]

You break it, you buy it.

[codyace]

Stuff like this is also why I'm a bit reluctant to instruct sometimes. It's an almost thankless job, and you work A LOT for the "free track time" that sometimes you don't even feel like "enjoying" after being slung around out there all weekend.

Totally agreed. I'm very content staying in Red vs Going to Black (for now)


It really sounds to me like you're trying to justify guilt tripping the instructor into giving you money even though you signed a liability waiver before ever driving into the paddock that weekend.

And that's kinda what I think as well. I don't know Jacobzking and he may be a stand up guy, but I (personally) would never expect an instructor to pay anything (regardless of condition) unless it was so beyond his relm (which when would an instructor ever really do something like this)


I think of it this way...lets say it was in the dry, and the guy over estimated the tires/brakes/etc ec, and the car went off and tore the bumper off...would Jacobzking still be mad? Hard to say.

In the end I think it's a situation of expecting too much from the instructor. I'm in fact jealous that they even offered free track time, as heck I've had issues that kept me from running half a day with some groups and they didn't give 2 hoots.

it was at eagles canyon and like you said, he should have been driving at low speed.
...
have you ever wrecked a students car?

Low speed or high speed, it was an accident IMO, and I wasn't there.

YES my car was looped twice (granted both by friends), one time causing the lip to get annihilated. I didn't expect them to pay anything as truthfully if they didn't do it, I would have at one point (I was new, and didn't respect HP at that point)

[mr.nismo.]

i get where people come from on the whole you signed a waiver blah blah blah, BUT.... if your in a car you have NEVER driven before and is NOT yours, would you go balls out the first lap or get a feel of the car first?

[Def]

it was at eagles canyon and like you said, he should have been driving at low speed.

the guy offered right off the bat to pay, but i was looking for alternatives which i have come up with one.

have you ever wrecked a students car?

So was the guy actually going balls out? I highly doubt that on the 5th corner and showing you the line. It might have felt fast, but he was probably going pretty slow and likely just got into the throttle a bit much on corner exit. It's easy to do on a turbo car in the wet if you're not used to how it responds.

I've never wrecked a student's car, but I have spun some friends cars in the wet when I was not even close to the limit in my mind (and I wasn't on 99.999% of the rest of the lap). You probably didn't even realize it, but the grip level changes DRASTICALLY on a track in wet conditions, usually going from one extreme to another in the span of a foot or so.


If he offered to pay, fine; but IMO, it was going to happen sooner rather than later with a fiberglass bumper and a low ride height.

[Def]

i get where people come from on the whole you signed a waiver blah blah blah, BUT.... if your in a car you have NEVER driven before and is NOT yours, would you go balls out the first lap or get a feel of the car first?

Driving a car on a wet track is nothing at all like driving on the street in the wet. The surface is polished smooth on many areas, and you will have to cross those while driving the wet line. The track surface also dictates how much grip it provides vs. the level of water on it. Some keep providing tons of grip in heavy rain, others fall off a huge amount from damp to dry.

Now in the dry it's pretty inexcusable to drive a student's car fast enough to spin it, but in the wet sometimes you get caught out VERY quickly.


Maybe 4-5 people in this thread have any track experience, so it's pretty tough to get any real info from all the "opinions" that are being thrown out there.

[Beejis60]

bumper plaus paint is around $500 if I'm lucky and get a bumper that doesn't need a load of work. the track is giving me $300 in track time so I'm only out about $200. if the instructor pays me $150 (what he would have had to pay for track time if he went as a non-instructor) then I'm at $450 and only out of pocket roughly $50-100.

seems fair to me.

also, knowing that the guy spent $20,000 rebuilding his porsche engine recently and lives in a swank part of town... I don't feel so bad hitting him up for $150.

Fuck that. You break it, you buy it. He owes 5 bills not 2. The track really doesn't owe you shit so it's a cool gesture I suppose, but I would want my money from that assbag.

[0wn3r]

Fuck that. You break it, you buy it. He owes 5 bills not 2. The track really doesn't owe you shit so it's a cool gesture I suppose, but I would want my money from that assbag.

Exactly how many track waivers have you signed so far?

[Def]

Exactly how many track waivers have you signed so far?

Seriously...


I bet you guys would expect someone to pay full value for your car if they lost a brake caliper o-ring and went plowing into the back of you in a braking zone.



Don't ever take a car to the track you can't walk away from.

[codyace]

Exactly how many track waivers have you signed so far?

LOL :bowrofl:



As Def says, if you don't want to pay for it, or you can't afford to fix it, you shouldn't be there anyway. That applies to almost any situation in life.


With that said, I let almost 5 different people flog my car at the AutoX today. If they woulda looped it, it woulda been my fault, and I wouldn't expect anything.

[240zach]

you can't zip tie it when its broken in to pieces


bullshit you cant...watch that

Phat Sliggity :: Zipties (http://youtu.be/OveJ8AsJ8Lo)

[jacobzking]

lol... that is some mighty fine zip tying. but as it says at the very beginning of the video... that typically applies to DRIFTERS. I am not a drifter. I do not drift anymore. And that bumper will NOT pass safety inspection on the track.

[240zach]

you say typically..

the video applys to what to do when your bumper breaks. he was drifting, doesnt mean that you cant ziptie it because you where not drifting. regardless if your drifting or driving hard shits bound to happen.

[0wn3r]

As Def says, if you don't want to pay for it, or you can't afford to fix it, you shouldn't be there anyway. That applies to almost any situation in life.

That last line made me rethink ever stepping foot outside my house again lol :eek:

[jacobzking]

you say typically..

the video applys to what to do when your bumper breaks. he was drifting, doesnt mean that you cant ziptie it because you where not drifting. regardless if your drifting or driving hard shits bound to happen.

you can do whatever you want, but the bumper zip tied like that will not pass inspection and you will not be allowed on the track.

[240zach]

do you need to have a bumper on the track to pass a safety inspection? a bumper support or a bash bar would be understandable but what is a fiberglass bumper going to protect?

[jacobzking]

yes, a stock production vehicle must have all body panels correctly installed. they made an exception after the chief instructor looked at the car after I removed the bumper and gave me the "ok" to finish out the day.

the problem with panels held together by zip ties is that they create a hazard for other drivers.

[240zach]

well if there was no front bumper what would be the hazard for the other drivers?

[jacobzking]

well if there was no front bumper what would be the hazard for the other drivers?

ask people that build and manage race tracks. bumpers hide and protect wiring, bulbs, radiators, coolant bottles, oil coolers...

[240zach]

if its fiberglass its going to blow up on impact and not protect shit

[S-Nation S13]

ask people that build and manage race tracks. bumpers hide and protect wiring, bulbs, radiators, coolant bottles, oil coolers...

Won't save shit, if your going fast enough shits going to break. regardless with your answer it's all about cosmetic to you, just like how you bitched about your bumper, it's simple you could of said no. You agreed to have your instructor drive your car you assume that he won't fuck up.:smash:

Just to let you know bumpers main job isn't to hide coolant bottle and the other shit you list, it's main job is for aerodynamics get you shit straight.

if its fiberglass its going to blow up on impact and not protect shit

This fiber glass is weak shit ..

Can't believe this fucking thread is still alive, didn't you get your shit fixed and handled with..

[240zach]

This fiber glass is weak shit ..

Can't believe this fucking thread is still alive, didn't you get your shit fixed and handled with..


+1 +1 lol thank you for agreeing

[jacobzking]

Won't save shit, if your going fast enough shits going to break. regardless with your answer it's all about cosmetic to you, just like how you bitched about your bumper, it's simple you could of said no. You agreed to have your instructor drive your car you assume that he won't fuck up.:smash:

Just to let you know bumpers main job isn't to hide coolant bottle and the other shit you list, it's main job is for aerodynamics get you shit straight.



This fiber glass is weak shit ..

Can't believe this fucking thread is still alive, didn't you get your shit fixed and handled with..


up until about 60 seconds ago you were the last dumbass keeping it alive. why respond bitching about people responding? :smash: and I never said anything about a bumper's main job. good god you're fucking dumb.

[Beejis60]

Exactly how many track waivers have you signed so far?

Doesn't matter.
Unless I missed it, the OP makes it seem like the dude just walked away without offering any sort of condolence. I understand what def and cody say, but if he's off like an arrogant asshole, well, I shouldn't say what I would do.

[S-Nation S13]

up until about 60 seconds ago you were the last dumbass keeping it alive. why respond bitching about people responding? :smash: and I never said anything about a bumper's main job. good god you're fucking dumb.

The fuck, I'll keep this shit alive just bc you keep responding back. Take what's coming to you, first of all you come in here asking for other peoples opinion on what you should do (you got a brain fucking use it), then you come in and give us some knowledge about fiberglass, front bumper protection and all this bullshit and information that many of us already know (nothing in this fucking thread is useful and has nothing to do with motorsports and skilled driving )fucking post in the right section for example bc you cant read and follow simple rules. You should of posted in chat. This thread fucking died as soon as you hit new thread.

[jacobzking]

^^^ is dying to keep this thread alive

PS: Beejis... the instructor DID offer to pay. He wasn't an asshole about it.

[240zach]

bumpers hide and protect wiring, bulbs, radiators, coolant bottles, oil coolers...

gtfo here with your "i never said what a bumpers main purpose" bull shit.

you hella mad bro

[jacobzking]

why exactly would I be mad? dumb kids don't make me mad. lol, you do realize that "you hella mad bro" sounds extremely gay, right?

[240zach]

you do realize this whole thread is extremely dumb right?

[jacobzking]

yep, most of it is

[240zach]

i wonder who your guna blame once you put your new painted fiberglass front bumper on and hit a bump and it falls off and you run it over.

[jacobzking]

i wonder who your guna blame once you put your new painted fiberglass front bumper on and hit a bump and it falls off and you run it over.

myself if i was the one driving it. that was a dumb inquisition.

[240zach]

it was sarcasm

[S-Nation S13]

^^^ is dying to keep this thread alive

PS: Beejis... the instructor DID offer to pay. He wasn't an asshole about it.

And yet your lame ass is still replying..just shut the fuck up already..get your new bumper let someone else drive it, then report back here when something else happens to your trophy car, so I can come back here to fuck shit up again.

[ZAKU]

This might just be the worst thread.

[OutlawLui]

Is this bumper thread seriously still going on? Hahahahahah

[BoostSlideWayz]

Unfortunately since this happend at a track usually when you sign your name on that paper they hand you.. they and their employees arent held accountable for what happens to your car.. How ever i would try to atleast tell him how much i would help if he could just maybe help you pay for it.. But if he doesnt want to .. theres nothing you can do really..

Also..that car is really nice.. i would consider getting the front bumper fixed how ever you can.. and then just keeping it a nice car.. ill gurantee you that car at a track drifting... WILL trash your car and it will just end up being a piece of shit...

Save up for a car that you know you dont care if your rear bumper or front bumper slams into a barrier.

[JaysPerformance]

Your at the track, shit happens. Suck it up and get over it or stay off the track.

[OutlawLui]

Wtf kill this thread

[pacotaco345]

Wtf kill this thread

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/pacotaco345/25yuswsw28295.gif

[speedracer5]

Bwhahah it is still alive this thread smh replace it already and ill drive the beast at the track for u

[vvtisupra]

As an instructor, I wouldn't drive your car if you ask me to pay for it. If I had to instruct you and pay for any damages then i'll just drive really slow.


At the track accidents happen, if you spun and someone hit you are you going to pay for their damage?

[zaquanh]

where and when was this?

what instructor? certainly not complainint about FM are you? ps if you didnt want anything to happen to your car , you dont ship a drift car from cali to texas ,

go to a drift event , learning or not and expect something not to happen

and for the others , track days are cheap in texas ,

[greenwood]

i cant believe you made a thread about this bullshit.

[racepar1]

This is the bottom line. YOU chose to attend the trackday. YOU chose to ask for instruction. YOU chose to let the instructor drive the car. This is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, NOT the instructor's. Un-expected things happen on-track and it's in bad taste to ask others to pay for it. Now, I have experienced circumstances in which I thought that someone else should have paid for the damages to our Formula Atlantic car. BUT, yours is not one of them. The event organizers have already been more than fair with the two free trackdays, to ask for any more is just not right. Now, I'm not saying that the instructor isn't likely a dumbass. Really he should have been concentrating on showing you the line, rather than pushing the car. But it is all YOUR decisions that put you and him in that position.

Hell, I would let an instructor smash up my bumper for two free trackdays anytime.

[S14DB]

Yeah, this thread is 6months old. No need to beat a dead horse.