Ka24de VS starters ( Rnd 1 KA ) " OPINIONS PLEASE"

[Shouldahadav8]

Went to start my car after having injector issues and now my car cant turn over because of this
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae208/wilfuldisbelief/120415-210740.jpg

^This was starter #2 after swapping out the original one I've had running the last 6 months. After replacing my #3 injector I went to start the car and heard "CLANK" , the car didnt start. I took of the starter and reinstalled it and got the exact same results.
So I tried the second starter and got the same results again. At that point I had grabbed a breaker bar and 27mm and tried to see if the motor spun free, and obviously ripped a chunk of my starter off.

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae208/wilfuldisbelief/003.jpg
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae208/wilfuldisbelief/005.jpg
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae208/wilfuldisbelief/004.jpg



So please I would like other people opinions before i throw it all back together.

I drove the car on 3 cylinders home from work this one occasion and I've never had a problem with the starter/flywheel untill now . The flywheel honestly isnt damaged or bent, the motor spins freely and I've got the one more working starter, So I want to put it back together but I want experienced opinions first.

And I never had a shim on my starters before when it was working ,does anybody else have shims on their starters? And I didnt replace pilot bearing when i put the clutch on last time could this be the problem?

And BTW I pulled this motor out in one day by myslef IN DIRT.
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae208/wilfuldisbelief/002.jpg

[godrifttoday]

do it right once,

[Shouldahadav8]

Thats the reson I haven't put it all back together yet ..LOL

[godrifttoday]

Just fix it now

[Shouldahadav8]

Okay Maybe my description is too vague , I dont know what caused my starter to bind in the first place, I tried two starters both of them were binding. I can bolt the starter up with the transmission off and the clearances are all fine. I have not the slightest idea what is causing them to bind up. Im going to try to reinstall everything but I just dont want to have to pull it all back out for something I wont have any access to.

[Tantwoforty]

Injector issues like leaky injector?
Maybe your hydro locked or at least number 3 was full of fuel and stopped the piston and snapped the starter..
I had leaky injector issues for days and when it was super full of fuel it stopped the starter from moveing the engine and made a awful seizey/ dead batteryish noise, mine diddnt break like yours but it could have..
see if you can turn the engine with a wrench, if you cant pull out the spark plugs and try again..
i suggest once you but it back in take out all 4 spark pulugs and crank it with the injectors unpulgged. see if any fuel shoots out

theres not many things that will stop your engine from moveing like that, idk why you pulled the motor like that but meh lol

oh i missed where you said it spins freely. ive never shimmed a starter on my 240 though.

[Shouldahadav8]

I was under the impression that the injector was clogged, but there was gas in the intake manifold when I pulled it which tells me it was leaking. I thought the motor spun a bearing by the feel and noises it made so I just went ahead and started pulling it out. When i seperated the trans from the block the piece of starter feel out, thats when I knew the motor was still ok.

Honestly your probably right , but I pulled the spark plugs the day after it first happened and there wasnt any gas in the cylinders, it may have already leaked past the rings. I did notice the block was soaked with gas coming past the # 3 cylinder exhaust gasket so.... IDK we'll see when it goes back together, Im going to bench test the starter on the motor while still on the cherry picker to see if it binds up, if not maybe that was the problem. It sounds exactly like what you described.

[blueshark123]

Check for any bent valves

[Shouldahadav8]

I havent looked inside the cylinder again yet, but I found alot of gas in the intake manifold.....hmmm

I think the valves and motor are fine I think my motor did the same thing as his did but mine stressed the bendix shaft so hard a chunk of aluminum broke instead of the steel shaft. Its kind of begining to make sense, the chunk of aluminum fell to the bottom of my bell causing a bind at a certain point making me think it was locked up which is why I pulled the motor.

I had to pull the trans off to get to the metal chunk anyway so im glad I just pulled it all out , I remember it being harder to get the motor in last time with the trans off, I just put it back in with motor and trans together.

[Shouldahadav8]

Heres two videos I shot after the motor went back into the chasis.

I've now got eveything put back together and installed correctly but when I hit the key the first time it did the exact same thing..... I quickly grabbed my camera and took a video of the problem.

Ka starter issue 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aKZi9lx17g&feature=player_embedded)


Then .... I decided to make a better video of the noise it makes, and I thought it would be best to test the starter/flywheel engagement by itself with no spark or fuel. I pulled the coil wire and the (15w) fuel pump fuse so that i wouldnt have any gas in my cylinders again LOL and this happened

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YjzQ6SWMlA&feature=player_embedded

I tested the fuse and coil wire both on and off a couple times and its definitley the problem whenever they're installed, when I unplug them the car cranks great. Its getting dark outside today so untill tomorrow ...any ideas what would cause the coil wire or fuse to do this ???

[Shouldahadav8]

Update,

Its the (15w) fuel pump fuse being in which is causing my problem. Im not sure how that would have this effect on my motor but it spins freely while the coil is hooked up so it has to be that fuse... makes no sense to me :facepalm:

I havent had any fuel issues untill this all happened and Im honestly just trying to figure this stuff out so I can put on my 370cc's and Boost it so if its injectors thats fine, but im honestly confused and cant see why the fuse, my walbro, or an entire set of bad injectors would cause this to happen.

Anybody?

[maniac240sx_7]

the reason why your starter did that is because its on the exhaust stroke and the timing is off. its called kick back. thats why the starter is cracked takes all the force of the engine. just make sure your timing is on. good luck!

[maniac240sx_7]

^and are you sure you did that your self with the starter? i didnt read all of your post very well

[Shouldahadav8]

Honestly I'm going to check my timing tomorrow,

but yeah the starter probably cracked and then I binded it and forced it to break when I used the 27mm and breaker bar.

I'll try adjusting the timing but it would definitely be strange that it was running and skipped timing ( although it was already misfiring ) after I shut it off. But I've been suspecting timing, we'll know tomorrow.

[Shouldahadav8]

the reason why your starter did that is because its on the exhaust stroke and the timing is off. its called kick back. thats why the starter is cracked takes all the force of the engine. just make sure your timing is on. good luck!

KA24DE Timing - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Tl8EVfoxA)
heres my timing.

[Shouldahadav8]

Tested everything again today it only has trouble when it has spark and fuel pressure, but i still dont have any clue why its doing that, can anybody tell me what im missing?

[maniac240sx_7]

I would take a look at your FPR and test your fuel pump, and check your coil to see if that's why you have no spark

[AdamR]

It definitely looks like starter kickback. It is usually caused by high compression or the timing being too advanced during cranking.
BTW, if you are going to drive on 3 cylinders, make sure you unplug the injector for the cylinder that isn't firing.

[Shouldahadav8]

It was the injector I swapped in , the lower Oring was broke causing a bad seal which allow my walbro 255 to instantly fill my cylinder.

Thanks guys