Sway bar opinions...

[Ryan of Velocity]

Just wanted to post and get some of your guys' opinions on sway bar sizing and materials. We're (Works Yamaguchi) are starting our own product line called D'Stage and the S13/S14/Z32 sway bars are going to be one of first releases. I don't want to violate any rules so I'm not going to turn this into an ad. lol.

Anywho right now the sizing on our test set is 31mm (front) and 23mm (rear). For comparison:

Front Rear

Stock 27.2mm 16mm

Sustec 27mm 20.6mm

Largus 31.5mm 27.5mm

Tanabe 30.4mm 22mm

Whiteline 27mm 22mm

D'Stage 31mm 23mm


From what I've gathered alot of people are intersted in Largus size sway bars so we decided to produce two types. One the sizes above and a larger Largus size set. 32mm front and 28mm rear.

I just wanted hear everyones opinion on sizing so we can put out the ideal set.

Also these are going to be available in either chromoly or sprung steel. Any opinions on materials? We are working with guys who have years of experience engineering components for the IRL, F1, etc.. but I wanted to know what you guys thought since you are the ones we are trying to sell these parts too. lol.

And admin, if this message violates any rules let me know. lol.

[Brian]

Brian's thoughts:

make these bars utilize stock endlinks.
paint them a ridiculous colour, sparkly green.
i like your "largus sizing".
chromoly seems like a good material.
do you happen to know Cusco's sizes for s14 off the top of your head? if you have to search for it, dont bother.

[Ryan of Velocity]

Not sure about the Cusco sizing. The sways are going to be powdercoated a "sparkly" purple. lol.

We're going to make a few versions. One being for use with the stock end-links. We're also working on our own adjustable endlinks as well.

[Dousan_PG]

my suggestion:

i love the LARGUS size idea. maybe wont sell as much but to the 'bigger is better' folks haha..if i can get my suspension up to match oh its freakin' on! :)

but anyways, i say something near largus and something LARGER then Whiteline
why? whiteline is so common a bit larger gives folks another option. :)

yes im all for the stock endlink style setup. i know pretty mcuh all japanese sway bars run taht style setup..works perfect

i like the test set sizing :)

[Cthulhu]

Brian, Cusco size for the s14 is 30mm front, 21mm rear. Also, for comparison's sake the tanabe s14 rear sway bar is 27.5mm, according to their website.

[ZodiacSR]

Correct, Cusco is F: 30mm and R: 21mm

If you make them F: 32mm and R: 28mm, I will buy a set. For color, I'm plain and simple... black for me.

Please offer new D bushings and D brackets to accomadate the larger size bar.

And yes, please allow them to be able to use factory endlinks.

Just my opinion

[BadMoJo]

I like the sound of the Largus sizes. And I like the idea of a crazy sparkly color. :cool:

As far as endlinks go... stock type or maybe a cool setup with heim joints like Don Nimi has on his whiteline bars.

[thx247]

sprung steel? Why not unobtainium?

[DSC]

BIGGER IS BETTER!


But really, I do have some questions.

You asked us what material we prefer but I don't know anything about them...price, weight, etc...
I say you and your engineers just pick one for us thats the best comprimise between price and performance.

My other question is about the different sizes.
How big is too big? Is there any "matching" that should happen with the rest of your suspension and the size of your sway bar? apex n1 vs stock springs and shocks...should they run the same bar size? I mean...is it possible to have a bar so big it will not allow the springs to really do their job while cornering or any other combinations that would have negative side effects?

I like the idea of being able to adjust the effective length of the bar. I think whiteline had a good idea but just implemented it poorly. Is your adjustable design going to use hiem joints/pillow balls? When will they be out? And any ideas HOW MUCH $? :) or would that make it an ad :p

[Steeles]

I think anything in the range of the "established" companies will be fine for the 240 crowd. especially if you offer them at a good price you give yourself the ability to say "we got largus sized bars at half/fraction/less price"

so that would give you front sizing from 27-32mm and rears from 17-23mm to offer.

[DSC]

16-28mm >:)

Hey, I have an ST front sway (any idea on the size of those?) should I match it with a 23mm or 28mm rear?

[kandyflip445]

I like the largus sizing. But I'm with DSC pick a material that works. I don't know anything about materials. For the color, I'd take black over anything else, but it's just preference. If it works I'll buy it.

[Steeles]

ST are 28.6mm front and 20.6mm rear

[DSC]

LOL, ST 28.6mm/f DS 28mm/r would be a sick setup :)

Anybody care to guess if this would be fun or not drivable stupid dangerous?

[Chernobyl]

Please allow the option to buy just the front or rear bar seperately as well. If you plan to supply front D brackets and urethane bushings with the kit, please please make sure they fit (unlike ST crap). Also, I agree on the stock endlink idea, but they could use some urethane bushings at the ends that mount to the suspension, so if you could provide those, that'd be great (although I'm sure these can be had from other companies if you choose not to provide them). And most importantly, I'd like to see thicker sway bars at a very competitive price, so "simpler is better" I think (as in, no funky adjustability and heim joints and all that). Less production costs for you and lower prices for us.

[CoasTek240]

big sway bars + damn decent prices= me being a happy camper, b/c i'm buying them asap.

[kuruptR]

Pricing.... $175.00 us :D

[Frappe]

This may well be a really stupid question,
but why doesn't anyone make aluminum sway bars?
No rust, lighter...is it a flexing issue? or a strength issue?

[TBreu007]

I'm going to disagree on not having heim joints. Heim joints offer the best for any suspension component...like Papa John says, "better ingredients make better pizza."
There's tons of sway bars out there; you can make sway bars like all the rest, or you can make the best. I don't see what is so intimidating about heim/spherical joints. Drive a car with spherical bearings in the suspension or sway bars, and you will understand why they are the best.

My suggestion:
How about a full race setup with spherical end links and adjustability to remove or add bar preload.
Straight NASCAR style splined bar and aluminum arms.
Spherical swaybar mounts.

In my race car, with Whiteline bars and 450/330 spring rates and race tires, the Whiteline rear bar was way overpowered, and the bent nature of the front bar and urethane mounts leaves much to be desired in the way of predictability. I'm in the market for some better bars...do you want a racer for some real R&D? :)

[JasonNagra]

I have been wating for well designed and cost effecive sways for my S13 for a while now! SWEET.

[West]

If you really want to set yourself above the rest design something like Porsche markets have for their cars. Like the sway bar below. Eliminate the bending and heat treating required when bending bars that can cause fatigue. You could also make these hallow to reduce weight. Of course, I doubt this is even possible with the design of our undercarriage.

http://www.tarett.com/images/Products/Sway_Bar.jpg

If you want something different, then consider a tubular design sway bar, to save weight. The thicker the outside diameter the better. They can perform almost as good as a bar that is solid and the same thickness. Also, it matters how they are made with tubular design. IIRC, rolled design is better then gun drilled, which you would only see a slight decrease in weight.

[lbcklik1486]

Damn.. this porsche ones look hot too..

[Ryan of Velocity]

I'm going to disagree on not having heim joints. Heim joints offer the best for any suspension component...like Papa John says, "better ingredients make better pizza."
There's tons of sway bars out there; you can make sway bars like all the rest, or you can make the best. I don't see what is so intimidating about heim/spherical joints. Drive a car with spherical bearings in the suspension or sway bars, and you will understand why they are the best.

My suggestion:
How about a full race setup with spherical end links and adjustability to remove or add bar preload.
Straight NASCAR style splined bar and aluminum arms.
Spherical swaybar mounts.

In my race car, with Whiteline bars and 450/330 spring rates and race tires, the Whiteline rear bar was way overpowered, and the bent nature of the front bar and urethane mounts leaves much to be desired in the way of predictability. I'm in the market for some better bars...do you want a racer for some real R&D? :)


Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Been running around like a mad man. Our goal is of course to have the best of what is out there BUT we also want to have an affordable alternative which is why we are releasing sway bar kits that utilize the stock endlinks first. Our own adjustable end-links are in-fact going to be spherical but they aren't ready for "production" as of yet.

[Soulja]

If we pick up the sways, are we going to be able to get the endlinks separately later when they are out? Or will they only be sold as a package with the bars?
Oh, and hurry up and get the bars in production and out for sale.

[sykikchimp]

Larger than whiteline bars with adjustability.

DSC - 28 F and rear? that would cause what Mark used to call, "tail out Jackassery!"

[Ryan of Velocity]

If we pick up the sways, are we going to be able to get the endlinks separately later when they are out? Or will they only be sold as a package with the bars?
Oh, and hurry up and get the bars in production and out for sale.


Sure can. We will definantly be selling the endlinks separately. Someone mentioned earlier about not buying a set but just a front or rear bar and that's fine as well. Like I mentioned on another thread as well, we'll be willing to do custom sizes if someone has something specific that they want. I threw the Largus size bars into the mix at Dousans behest. lol.

The s13/s14 bars should be released by the end of this month.

[Soulja]

Are these going to $175 each, or a pair? :naughty:

[Steeles]

Are these going to $175 each, or a pair? :naughty:


Ryan never said they would be 175. that was Kurupt REQUESTING that price for them

[Brian]

any updates of how these are turning out? i am most curious about them and will be getting a set after they are released.

[Var]

so was whiteline lying about having too large of a rear sway bar? or do you guys actually want to slide by the slightest steering inupt? I mean a 28mm rear bar would render your car useless for traction driving right?

[Steeles]

so was whiteline lying about having too large of a rear sway bar? or do you guys actually want to slide by the slightest steering inupt? I mean a 28mm rear bar would render your car useless for traction driving right?

probably not but Im guessing that they mean in relation to your front bar. I.E. small front bar + large rear bar = tail happy jackassery but large front + large Rear = more neutral feel (as far as tail happy jackassery is concerned)

[Red]

I like the ST sway bars... They fit fine on my car...

The only thing I want is lighter... Get me some Titanium... (light, springy)

[CoasTek240]

Ryan of velocity- hows the sway bars going btw...I want my purple sway bars! give us a lil info

[s0ldats]

largus sizing = i'm all for it. so how's this coming along? any ideas of the cost yet?

[Halz]

How are you going to go about testing these bars to be sure they're the best for the car?

Will they just be sized larger to satasfy the precognition that bigger/stiffer is better? Or will there actually be controlled tests where the car is timed around a circut and lateral acceleration is logged?

What spring rates will best compliment these humungus swaybars, since the two are dependent on one-another



TBreu007
Whats stopping you from converting the polyurethane endlinks to rod-ends/hemi-joints? (just follow the idea [email protected] has (http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspensionbars.html)) ...or are you asking for better mounts to replace the polyurethane bushings (that need to constantly be greased) that hold the bar to the chasis?

[BlackRyder]

so are you in full production of your bars yet cuzz im intrested 28mm adjustable rear cool

[nightwalker]

I am in the market for swaybars, and have already considered the Tanabes. But will definitely wait for these if you guys go Largus sizing. I have goals to eventually run Apex N1s.

[JRTurbo909]

Once the Largus sized ones are out, I am definately ready to buy them!!! Keep us updated.

[crazyikimasho]

for reference, Tanabe is:

s14: 30.4mm (front), 27.5mm (rear) drift spec
s13: 30.4mm (front), 22.0mm (rear)

[Wiisass]

It would be great if someone would calculate the different sizes of sway bars to use with different spring rates for different suspension setups. It's possible, it's just a lot of work. I'm considering it, once I get my car back down at school with me. It might end up being a project in my Advanced Land Vehicle Dynamics class. It would be based on some assumptions, but it would give people an idea on how to set up their car.

I mean how great would it be to know that a good track setup with (for example) 8/6 springs rates and 29/23 sway bars sizes would give a neutral feel to the car with slight oversteer at the limits. (I just made up those numbers, so don't take that for anything more than an example).

Maybe this is all wishful thinking, or maybe this has been done, but more than likely it's too much for most companies to spend all this time focusing on things like this, but i'm sure some people around here would be interested in having this information.

just an idea,
Tim

[Steeles]

It would be great if someone would calculate the different sizes of sway bars to use with different spring rates for different suspension setups. It's possible, it's just a lot of work. I'm considering it, once I get my car back down at school with me. It might end up being a project in my Advanced Land Vehicle Dynamics class. It would be based on some assumptions, but it would give people an idea on how to set up their car.

I mean how great would it be to know that a good track setup with (for example) 8/6 springs rates and 29/23 sway bars sizes would give a neutral feel to the car with slight oversteer at the limits. (I just made up those numbers, so don't take that for anything more than an example).

Maybe this is all wishful thinking, or maybe this has been done, but more than likely it's too much for most companies to spend all this time focusing on things like this, but i'm sure some people around here would be interested in having this information.

just an idea,
Tim

I hearby comission you to do that math Tim. :D

drift ass nation!

[Replicant_S14]

Maybe this is all wishful thinking, or maybe this has been done, but more than likely it's too much for most companies to spend all this time focusing on things like this, but i'm sure some people around here would be interested in having this information.

just an idea,
Tim

No, it's a great idea. I've looked around for info on how to relate spring rate to swaybar diameter/material. I can't really find any. Whiteline say's they sized theirs based on the springs they sell. I'd like to know if they had a mathmatical basis for it or if it was trial and error....or hell, it may all be BS.

[Wiisass]

The thing that sucks, is there is no easy way to relate sway bar diameter directly to spring rate. You have to make assumptions on wheel rates, ride frequencies and a whole lot of other stuff, that i don't really have the data for and don't know anyone that does. So anything I could do would be a rough approximation. Then I'd have to figure out roll rates and installation ratios for the suspension and the sway bars. And then a couple hours of calculations. It would be a project, but it's nothing I really have time for right now. I was hoping to focus more on this during the summer, but if someone else wants to do it, i'm all about helping.

Tim

[Steeles]

I'd offer to help but I suck at math :)

[pruto]

Oh, i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this. But irc Apexi N1 duals don't clear the whiteline sway bar. ST has the best clearance.

exhaust clearence might be an issue if you're going to design your own sway bar. but shouldn't be much of a problem.


I love SPL parts, i think it rocks. I totally support any company that makes aftermarket parts here in the us for our cars. JDM is nice, but pricey.

[crazyikimasho]

for reference.... comparison pic between stock s14 and Tanabe drift spec 27.5 mm rear:

http://up-speed.com/swaybar.jpg

Cusco and Tanabe both also have very good clearance for aftermarket Japanese exhausts.

[skatanic28]

think the cuscos would clear n1 duals?
im in the market for a set but i might need to get rid of my catback first, its too loud for me anyways so its fine by me

[crazyikimasho]

think the cuscos would clear n1 duals?
im in the market for a set but i might need to get rid of my catback first, its too loud for me anyways so its fine by me

Yes, both Tanabe and Cusco are designed to clear most Japanese exhausts. As long as your stock sway bar is clearing it now, it will clear.

[nismofeind]

This might be too late, but here is my opinion.

Bigger isn't always better in sway bars. Its actually worse for traction. If you need sway bars that big you need heavier spring rates and alot bigger tire too to keep the same amount of traction that you started with.

I have always thought that a medium sized sway bar is best and adjustable endlinks are the way to go. That way if you want a stiffer feeling bar you can just tune the sway bar to what you like. Also its mostly the ratio of the F to R bar size that changes the dynamics of the car due to sway bar not really the actual size, which determines sway.

My setup that I have is
Front - stock bar w/ stock endlinks.

Rear - HICAS bar w/JIC endlinks.

This works great especially with the adjustablity, but it could be better. Lighter bars for one, the stock bars are heavy compared to a chromoly or aluminum one (I think cusco uses Chromoly). Cheaper adjustable endlinks that work with stock. Poly D bushings for the HICAS 21mm bar.

[sykikchimp]

additional bar weight from solid bars doesn't add enough unsprung weight to make a big enough difference to matter, unless the car is a race car, and your looking for 100th's of a second.

[crazyikimasho]

The Tanabe chromoly and hollow, instead of solid steel. Definitely a lot more rigid, but lighter and does allow for some slight flex.

[sykikchimp]

also, hollow bars are technically more prone to fail than a solid bar would be, but I have honestly never heard of a sway bar failing.

[MikeFD3S]

( ^_^)b @ Chromoly. That stuff is real top notch-- a much more rigid and lighter alloy than standard steel-- they build roll cages out of the stuff

Chromoly is a lot stronger, that's why it can be hollow and still be more rigid that the standard fare steel...weight savings should be several pounds, maybe as many as 10

[95zilvia]

Bringing up an old thread. Did these sway bars ever come out!?
In the market for a rear sway bar because my bushings are wack, and endlinks are bent. Looking for a sway bar that has all new endlinks, and bushings as well as a D-Bracket. Closest thing I found was Whiteline, or do all aftermarket sway bars come with new end links?

[s13Dr1ft]

No they never came out...SHort after this, Ryan decided to screw alot of people. Do a search for that info. Me and Eric are currently working on new things. Aerostage didnt work becuse our finacial backer backed out. But now we have really good investors ( Wich we need. D'oh!) so give us a while and we should be up and operational.

JOrdan
DarkStar L.L.C

[Edgar]

This is Edgar part of Aerostage Developments, like Jordan said we are working on getting everything set up. Once we have everything running Zilvia members will have major discount and we will set up a group buy. If the admins can contact me via email at [email protected] I will greatly appreciated and sorry Zilvia that is have taken so long.

Thanks
Edgar

[CoasTek240]

wow, i'd like to see how this works out.

I need to see some more specs, and pictures of prototypes, but i'd be down....again

[s13Dr1ft]

yea once again. I appologize for the lateness of our things. We now have a much larger list of parts to deal out. This weekend were having a sit down and i will gather as much info as possible and let ya guys know on specs and when i can snap some pics i will, i just got a new camera.

Thank you guys once again and thank you for being patient with us as now were stonger and are moving forward very fast.

Questions/concerns contact me at DjHaze12000-AIM or PM's

Jordan

[phrozen]

i Want a set! as long as there not as expensive as largus =). keep us posted ive been waiting for some uber sway bars

[KiDyNomiTe]

yea once again. I appologize for the lateness of our things. We now have a much larger list of parts to deal out. This weekend were having a sit down and i will gather as much info as possible and let ya guys know on specs and when i can snap some pics i will, i just got a new camera.

Thank you guys once again and thank you for being patient with us as now were stonger and are moving forward very fast.

Questions/concerns contact me at DjHaze12000-AIM or PM's

Jordan

Are you coming to Chicago with Eric and all them? If so see you then.