Front splitter, canards, who's running what?

[Pstl_pete]

I'm looking to either make or purchase a front splitter for my brother's S14 since we are going to be tracking it more and more.

I've also contemplated doings side canards before a splitter but Im not even sure if anyone out there makes anything thats fits the kouki JDM front bumper. Suggestions?

Basically, so me what you're running and if it's been working for you.

[slider2828]

Seriously, most people make it out of 1/4 birch plywood with a PBM metal undertray that slots into it.... If you have some more money, you can go to a sign store and aluminite... Which is like corrugated aluminum that is light and strong.... extend 2"'s from the front and mount with hardware from McMasters......

[Karlitos]

Seriously, most people make it out of 1/4 birch plywood with a PBM metal undertray that slots into it.... If you have some more money, you can go to a sign store and aluminite... Which is like corrugated aluminum that is light and strong.... extend 2"'s from the front and mount with hardware from McMasters......

This. I thought about using other things, but using wood is the most cost effective.

Canards would be difficult to make and probably wont be making as much of a difference like a splitter. The next step would be a wing, like an APR-200 if youre actually interested in tracking. Or a diffuser for a fun project, but just the splitter will definitely help front end grip.

[Walperstyle]

Wood is also illegal in some places and classes of racing

[Promise Land]

Does APR made a carbon fiber splitter?

[ManoNegra]

Seriously, most people make it out of 1/4 birch plywood with a PBM metal undertray that slots into it.... If you have some more money, you can go to a sign store and aluminite... Which is like corrugated aluminum that is light and strong.... extend 2"'s from the front and mount with hardware from McMasters......

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mmdb/Misc/IMG_1023.jpg

[slider2828]

Wood is also illegal in some places and classes of racing

I agree.... but most classes here I think allow it.... just not weight effective... Cause like a sheet of 1/4" birch plywood up to the front arms is about 5-7 lbs.... Lot of weight on the front end that is shock tower forward....

Canards are worthless.... don't bother.... in most cars that are probably sub 500whp, it will end up causing more drag than anything....

[JDM SPUG]

Manonegra what kind of wing is that?

[CrimsonRockett]

Manonegra what kind of wing is that?

JDM Kouki S14 wing.

[JDM SPUG]

^ look at the sport it has a little flip in the back

[silviaguy240]

modified with a gurney flap

[Pstl_pete]

Wood is too heavy, I think the alumilite seems the way to go. APR is a sheet of carbon that flexes too much so Im staying away from it.

Are there any canard options that are universal (and worthwhile using?) or built for the s14?

[jacobzking]

anyone? anything anywhere/

[Johny5]

Wood isn't really THAT heavy. I use 1/2" plywood and have had more than 4 people stand on each design i've made at the same time...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/SDC10556.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/SDC10563.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/d84745b9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/d8597d66.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/3e4d3f01.jpg

Believe me, both of them can stop a freight train. No point in building aerodynamics that attach to a flimsy FRP bumper.

[smellslikecurry]

and just to clarify some things...^^^stew ^^^ weighs 300lbs by himself.

[Johny5]

-145lb <3 <3

[Royal_T]

hahaha love that pic..

I also Co-sign plywood..

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq139/Royal_T_album/IMG_3851.jpg

[slider2828]

How would you mount the splitter without a tubed crashbar/front end?

I am really more interesting on how to mount this thing correctly.

[Johny5]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/4dc83c92a929aa161f1f20aaa1a013d0.jpg

i can show you hell, my friend. i've seen it.

[godrifttoday]

Johny5 can u post pic from underneath? Where was this mounted to ? And u used 1/2 woos on all cars?

[Johny5]

Splitter Creation - Stewart Leask (http://www.stewartleask.com/build/splitter-creation)

that may help describe it a bit better!

[surge s14]

I also will be running a Leask splitter <3

[slider2828]

i can show you hell, my friend. i've seen it.


OMG That is gross.... wtf.....

So it looks like you did a wing looking structure to the crash bar bolt on... Hmm interesting...

What do you think about tabs in the crash bar with steel L brackets to the fram...

[Johny5]

I honestly think the oe crash bar is too high up to effectively hold a splitter which is why i split my bash bar into an upper and lower and utilized the lower bar. Using oem bolt holes allows the structure to fail and not take the frame rails with it as well.

Yay surge I am excited :D

[slider2828]

Wait does Leask sell this thing? If so that would save me a WHOLE ton of time! Cause I really don't have access to a pipe bender or a good welder....

[chiboy002]

Using oem bolt holes allows the structure to fail and not take the frame rails with it as well.
please elaborate, as i am on the same path you just took

[Johny5]

basically chiboy, either the pipes will bend and crunch or the bolts holding them on will shear the bolt/stud combo. Both should and will fail before they take the frame rails with them, which is what the structure must attach to. It's also why I don't bulkhead any bolt-on plates or anything RIGHT into the tip of my frame rails.

Slider, yes I do offer this as a service but its particularly different from car to car and tough to guess how it'll work for you given aero/fmic (y/n)/oil cooler configuration/tweaked chassis/etc. its all pretty exact to the specific car

[jacobzking]

basically chiboy, either the pipes will bend and crunch or the bolts holding them on will shear the bolt/stud combo. Both should and will fail before they take the frame rails with them, which is what the structure must attach to. It's also why I don't bulkhead any bolt-on plates or anything RIGHT into the tip of my frame rails.

Slider, yes I do offer this as a service but its particularly different from car to car and tough to guess how it'll work for you given aero/fmic (y/n)/oil cooler configuration/tweaked chassis/etc. its all pretty exact to the specific car

and lucky me, I'm in dallas :)

would you be interested in looking over my car and letting me know what I can do the help it on the track?

[Johny5]

Of course, that'd be just fine by me

[slider2828]

Definitely going to save your page..... Would you have any idea how much it would be for you to put together something like you did?

[Johny5]

honestly its tough to get it down to specific pricing. depends on obstacles, fitment, etc. its really something that should be done with the car in person but i can offer something i think is pretty close. as-is i have examples of my car on dmax3 with no fmic and an s13 with uras front bumper i can measure off of. my s14.5 is sold so i can no longer get dims off that.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I'm looking to either make or purchase a front splitter for my brother's S14 since we are going to be tracking it more and more.

I've also contemplated doings side canards before a splitter but Im not even sure if anyone out there makes anything thats fits the kouki JDM front bumper. Suggestions?

Basically, so me what you're running and if it's been working for you.

What tracks do you guys run?

What kind of suspension mods does your brother's S14 have?

What kind of coilovers are on your brother's S14?

What kind of tires does he run?

What kind of power is he putting down?

Let's get specifics before we jump into aero; there may be more effective ways of going faster.

[chiboy002]

basically chiboy, either the pipes will bend and crunch or the bolts holding them on will shear the bolt/stud combo. Both should and will fail before they take the frame rails with them, which is what the structure must attach to. It's also why I don't bulkhead any bolt-on plates or anything RIGHT into the tip of my frame rails.

oooh ok
i see
i had initially thought you had meant it would allow the bolt holes for the frame rails to break before the frame gets messed up, and thats what caused confusion

why did you opt for wood and not aluminium or something more durable?

[ManoNegra]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/4dc83c92a929aa161f1f20aaa1a013d0.jpg

i can show you hell, my friend. i've seen it.

OMG That is gross.... wtf.....


can someone explain why this is no bueno besides not being aesthetically pleasing?
I've seen this on several track cars with splitters.
Mostly diy-ers.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p257/skeetz_skeetz/Brains2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/om1kron/My%20Cars/1996%20240sx%20Kouki/exceed%20moat/moat2.jpg

[shaggy sr]

wow wood is a pos.

[Johny5]

you realize how fast that stuff will fold up in even a light tap or off-track excursion? haha it looks like its built with erector set. its as silly as people supporting splitters off bumpers that are hardly mounted well at all or made out of anything cheap FRP.

[s14unimog]

can someone explain why this is no bueno besides not being aesthetically pleasing? I've seen this on several track cars with splitters. Mostly diy-ers.

Surely they're arguing aesthetics. The assembly must obviously be capable of supporting weight but how much surely depends on how effectively it works, or how effectively the aero above it works (considering it'll be supporting it). I've noticed that most often times these splitters are almost perfectly horizontal.

I assume the best you can probably do is get the car up to your likely used max speed and see if damage occurs to the assembly. Outside that, I would want to see wind tunnel testing data before anyone can state, "that won't work"

Stew seems to only be using his as collision defense. That's technically not what a splitter is for; even though I'm sure it works well.

Edit:

you realize how fast that stuff will fold up in even a light tap or off-track excursion? haha it looks like its built with erector set. its as silly as people supporting splitters off bumpers that are hardly mounted well at all or made out of anything cheap FRP.

I agree that it's likely to fold up on an impact.

[Johny5]

I use mine for that purpose yes, but am also completely aware of the other side of the equation. Regardless whatever you run should stand up to what you may or may not put your car through, the worst case scenario. Those don't look like they'd do much, how do you know they don't deflect either? There's a lot of extension on that piece from erector set to end. Not arguing just offering different opinions.

[s14unimog]

I use mine for that purpose yes, but am also completely aware of the other side of the equation. Regardless whatever you run should stand up to what you may or may not put your car through, the worst case scenario. Those don't look like they'd do much, how do you know they don't deflect either? There's a lot of extension on that piece from erector set to end. Not arguing just offering different opinions.

I'm not doubting your understanding by any stretch; just stating the obvious. You have obviously built a much more elegant solution but it's strength is geared towards resisting an impact; you have no actual downforce data that drove you to the conclusion of your assembly.

But again, please don't confuse what I am saying. It is very nicely made.

[Johny5]

Ah, gotcha! And yeah I have zero data towards downforce or any proof of result of it after installation (though I wish I did). My car will be seeing some road racing this year, it'd be interesting to see the results with it both on and off.

[BOROSUN]

the longer the front splitter the more downforce (highpressure) it can generate. while the bottom creates a lower pressure redirected air.

http://superhachi.com/theory/downforce/typical.jpg


with a splitter
http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/MANGOLIAN_IAN2/typical.jpg

[ManoNegra]

Surely they're arguing aesthetics.

that was my guess
because the original example quoted is the splitter on the cream s14 I posted which is/was a privateer backed by a shop.
The second one is an older pic of one the Exceed Moat cars.

[Johny5]

the original quoted example was built by Maruta Goya which is far from a slum of a shop

[surge s14]

My car will be seeing some road racing this year, it'd be interesting to see the results with it both on and off.

In for roadracedriftcar data!

[KA24DESOneThree]

the longer the front splitter the more downforce (highpressure) it can generate.

Not really accurate. There's not much point to more than 4" of splitter extended from the front of the car as tested on a NASCAR. 90mm was the ideal length on a TA MCS. It kinda depends on how much drag the front end has; more drag means more pressure and less necessary length. Less drag and you can run one like FXMD does.

There's also aero balance and spring rates to think about. Running a functional splitter means one should run a functional rear wing to reduce oversteer at speed. One should also take into account the increase in downforce and its effect on the car's ride height at speed under heavy braking.

Also, dive planes/canards provide some additional downforce without much, if any, increase in drag and do increase splitter efficiency but will stall out around 15-20 degrees.

I still want answers to my above questions to allow us to help you guys get faster.

[rcl1221]

I'll be running a tegris splitter and 1700mm GT wing this season.


Sent from my Motorola STARtac using Tapatalk

[BOROSUN]

Not really accurate. There's not much point to more than 4" of splitter extended from the front of the car as tested on a NASCAR. 90mm was the ideal length on a TA MCS. It kinda depends on how much drag the front end has; more drag means more pressure and less necessary length. Less drag and you can run one like FXMD does.

There's also aero balance and spring rates to think about. Running a functional splitter means one should run a functional rear wing to reduce oversteer at speed. One should also take into account the increase in downforce and its effect on the car's ride height at speed under heavy braking.

Also, dive planes/canards provide some additional downforce without much, if any, increase in drag and do increase splitter efficiency but will stall out around 15-20 degrees.

I still want answers to my above questions to allow us to help you guys get faster.

ok that makes sense. yeah, iguess if i had a brick wall front end design, i would need less splitter because the of the massive drag is already creating.

[MidwestMyriad]

I like the idea of having a non visible splitter (follows the bumper edge), just so super low guys can scrape splitters and not bumpers. Might do something like this in the future. Would also hold bumper up (that way you don't have to ziptie the front bumper to the fender points), then you could just slide your bumper into place.

[godrifttoday]

would it be beneficial to get the the entire wood rounded off?

[slider2828]

I like the idea of having a non visible splitter (follows the bumper edge), just so super low guys can scrape splitters and not bumpers. Might do something like this in the future. Would also hold bumper up (that way you don't have to ziptie the front bumper to the fender points), then you could just slide your bumper into place.

If you want a non aero fender, but rather something to scrap then you can just go to ebay and get the Car of Tomorrow off the Nascar front splitter....

Cheap and durable.

[chiboy002]

I like the idea of having a non visible splitter (follows the bumper edge), just so super low guys can scrape splitters and not bumpers. Might do something like this in the future. Would also hold bumper up (that way you don't have to ziptie the front bumper to the fender points), then you could just slide your bumper into place.
yeah this was my intention too. something that just barely sticks out from under the bumper, say 1/2" to 1" at most, to protect it from nasty bumps.
If you want a non aero fender, but rather something to scrap then you can just go to ebay and get the Car of Tomorrow off the Nascar front splitter....

Cheap and durable.
the problem with this splitter is its cut to the shape of the bumper and looks like it attached to a nascar body

im looking at tegris, it would be nice to make it out of something like this rather than wood but shit its so expensive. 48"x80" is $1200 :naw:

[Johny5]

careful with those car of tomorrow splitters, they're often times sized short and not a feasible solution to most aftermarket kits even if you re-round them to contour to your bumper. that tegris splitter is something else, droolx100

[chiboy002]

that tegris splitter is something else, droolx100

that price though
omfg

tony, wanna group buy or something? im sure if we get a lot they can lower the price lol

[slider2828]

How about alumalite then?

[Johny5]

it seems so flimsy in any instance other than a perpendicular force, id say its a fine option just needs more support or bracing along its surface. it is light as hell though!

[chiboy002]

what about corrugated aluminum? someone said that would work?

i'm guessing if you use something like regular 1/4" aluminum then the bash bar's lower portion could run across it for rigidity.

[jacobzking]

How about alumalite then?

alumalite is a good option. pretty sturdy, especially when correctly supported. fairly cheap (about $120) and readily available.

[vehicle336]

Surely Peter Tarach can talk to someone in the industry and see about getting a prototype splitter made. Though it'd be nice to see another DIY project in Modified. I vote for alumilite with a matching flat bottom and matching rear diffuser. That'd be Hellaflush cool-kid style with an actual functional twist.

Also, I would hazard a guess that the canards found on your Evo project and even the stock Evo 8 bumper canards could be adjusted to fit that S13 bumper - though I can't imagine those having as much of an effect on front downforce unless they are attached with the splitter a la voltex and varis Evo front bumpers.

I'm interested to see what you come up with. Just make sure you take lots of pretty pictures.

[jacobzking]

problem is that every setup is different, mainly all the different bumpers; which would not only change shape, but possible conflicts with mounting points, etc.

[godrifttoday]

here my P.O.S i think i over did the front splitter ,made from 1/2 birtch wood... its all bolt on, not done yet, need to finish the other side and complete all the welds... also for anyone wondering, i dont have a tube bender, so i had to make some cuts, but i did reinforce them with additional 14 gauge metal at the joints. its rather stong how it currently sits..my friend and i can stand on it. over 400 pounds... so im sure i would be fine
http://i49.tinypic.com/rasp6x.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/1zwdqfo.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2qdapew.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2eykmcm.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/9gd9pe.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ch55i.jpg

[3AM]

plywood here also. strong as all hell. dont have pics of the mount but I used 4 x small diameter square tube, like 1/2", onto the chassis rail, with 1/4" bolts so they will shear if I hit something hard enough, gonna redo mounts when I make a bash bar.

have hammered ripple strips / been flat towed across the infield and it holds up fine.

http://hitandrundc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/HnRwall1.jpg

[godrifttoday]

does it protect your bumper well also? ever broke a fiber glass one?

[Beejis60]

does it protect your bumper well also? ever broke a fiber glass one?

It should protect it. I've never broke an fglass bumper to my knowledge.

3am- Love the look and color. Good job. I think it would probably look like shit if it stuck out much further with the silvia front.

[Bushido]

wow, 3am. Nice silvia, looks tough.

[K_style]

Wood isn't really THAT heavy. I use 1/2" plywood and have had more than 4 people stand on each design i've made at the same time...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/SDC10556.jpg


Wow, you got some sexy engine bay...

[godrifttoday]

finished my brace for the splitter, i still need to add some dzuz fastners for the bumper but other than that its good!

http://i47.tinypic.com/34ybf4y.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/6qjuxu.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/35hqxrn.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/35j9r8k.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/kyyc1.jpg

[C. Anderson]

http://hitandrundc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/HnRwall1.jpg

Did you make those headlights?

[Minz]

Think this might be of interest: Here. (http://super86.wordpress.com/2011/06/25/under-tray-part-1-front-splitter/)
http://super86.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/20110625-002418.jpg
http://super86.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/20110625-002138.jpg

[s13mikesr20]

anyone done this with pig nose yet

my set up is for entry lvl track racing

sr gt35r 500hp(soon....)
coils
sticky tires
17x9 wheels
gutted


wondering if i would be wasting my time useing the pig nose

[s13mikesr20]

sooooo no answer

[95s14silvia]

Xcessive manufacturing makes a pretty good one, not sure if they still have them but my friend bought one online and it worked good.