NA KA24de build questions

[southernjake]

Ok so I am planning on going back to an NA KA-de. I have ka24de rods, ka24e pistons (.04 overbore) and clevite rod and main bearings. I have many questions about the world of NA KAing.

BTW I HAVE GOOGLED THIS AND JUST NEED MORE ORGANIZED INFO

1. what should i use to tune a non plenumed itb setup? will it work with the stock dizzy?

2. what kind of power am I looking at with just .40 overbore/high comp and hot cam swap? it will have EVERY bolt on including headers, crank pulley, 3" exhaust and so on... It also has BC valve springs and retainers.

3. If I do not go with an ITB setup, how would a godspeed intake manifold do? (I have one layin around the house)

4. will I have valve clearance issues with the SOHC pistons and the hotcam swap? (stock size headgasket)

5. What should I set my valve timing (mechanical) to?

6. What should I set my dizzy timing (spark) at?


also if anyone has a scrap KA, i could seriously use some bolts as I am building this engine 100% from scratch.

[southernjake]

Nobody knows?

[s34n]

It all depends on your set up and what you're trying to achieve. Check out Nicoclub. Tons of info there.

[Kingtal0n]

assuming 150 cubic inches and a 7,000rpm redline:

155x7000/3456 = 313CFM @ 100% Volumetric efficiency
Thats about 200~ brake horsepower or about 175 to the wheels.

Now, if you would just spend about $2500 you could have an OEM sr20det engine from 1991 installed, which will produce about 250 horsepower to the wheels with zero modifications, and get better fuel economy, and probably be more reliable since nobody is going into the engine. You could even use the stock exhaust system.

:sadwavey:

[southernjake]

I've had 2 srs. I don't like them. I don't like having to fix them constantly (with parts that aren't readily available or cheap).

That being said I'm not trying to set any records but have a unique, well performing car that's fun to drive.

Thanks for the help though. I'm aiming for 200 at the wheels.

[GroundPerformance]

I actually just finish a High Compression KA24DE build for someone and it was definitely a blast to drive and really waken up the KA.. Below are the specs.

- .50mm Overbored KA24DE
- Rebuild KA24DE Head
- KA24E Pistons 89.50mm
- ARP Head Studs
- Cometic Metal HG
- SR 370cc Injectors
- E85 Fuel
- Stock ECU and MAF.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431262_3299700057371_1413997181_33250809_542669143 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/429700_3331603574939_1413997181_33260595_622849801 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/426679_3331608335058_1413997181_33260600_71135960_ n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418087_3331613255181_1413997181_33260605_870157072 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420688_3334514687715_1413997181_33261543_953105617 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/399833_3346033895688_1413997181_33265539_213285509 2_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431318_3354512547649_1413997181_33268726_104259795 9_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431038_3354518507798_1413997181_33268729_192270203 6_n.jpg
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[nate1]

you should have put this in the na ka area, i would have found it sooner.
1 ok if u go itb there really is no way around this u have to do a stand alone its just that simple u cant cheap out on that part.
2 i would get a better cam than that, pdm racing makes a cam that i will be running soon. its built just for the na ka, as far as i know its the only one for an na. u can get other companys cams that are cheaper but they are an all around cam not made just for na. but u should be looking at around 180-200 wheel give or take.
3 god speed is junk (i like there cross bar but how can u fuck up a bar?) ive seen an intake man. in person and it looks like a cave on the inside, full of stalagmites and they leak like shit. if u spend some money cleaning them out and weldling them it should be ok but your better off geting the Xcessive Manufacturing's intake manifold its like 450 and it works.
4. u should be fine with the clearance i used shoc pistons with a steal head gasket and have no issues and your stock hg is thicker.
5. u need to pull some timing i would say 5-7 for the break in also u might want to run some race gas in it for the break in. i had det on 93 octane so i did a half and half c16 mix with 93. kas dont like high comp its not a honda.
if u need more info pm me
heres some fun web sites-:snoop:
200whp NA Dyno - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1958)
PDM Racing - Cam Corner (http://pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html)
KA24DEvelopment.com :: 240SX Dyno Charts (http://ka24development.com/dyno_charts.html)

[southernjake]

^thanks a ton!!!!

The only reason I asked about the Godspeed manifold was because I have one. It is like a cave in there but can be fixed. Leaking can be fixed too.

Itbs are kinda out of the question at this point due to the financial situation.

I will be getting it tuned with an safc and running SR injectors so I'm not worried about detonation or leaning out.

Also I have been told not to exceed 248 cams. Honestly I'd rather stick to oem parts.

Ground performance-- what kind of numbers did that ka put down? Was there a header on it? How bout head work? That looks exactly like everything I have. Lol

[nate1]

-like i said u can clean it up but i would just save the trouble and get the real intake man it will make more power to.

-going itb is a big undertaking as there is no direct bolt on kit out there.

-when i was talking about pulling timming i was talking about for your break in u will add timming when u tune it. u should run stock injectors for your break in so u will have less of a chance to wash a cycl.

-modified mag did a dyno test of those cams with a aem ems and the they made like 6 wheel hp with them or something like that i cant find the issue right now but wasnt really worth the time to install them, it moved the power band around a little and that was it. get better cams they are the biggest imporvement u can make on a n/a motor even above higher comp.

[sidewaysil80]

Now, if you would just spend about $2500 you could have an OEM sr20det engine from 1991 installed, which will produce about 250 horsepower to the wheels with zero modifications, and get better fuel economy, and probably be more reliable since nobody is going into the engine. You could even use the stock exhaust system.

:sadwavey:

you sure about that? pretty sure it's like high 190-210whp stock. not too mention you're buying an installing a motor with unknown mileage and wear. a rebuilt oem n/a ka would be far more reliable as well.

[nate1]

haha 250 wheel hp with a stock exhaust? the s15 motor only makes 260 crank not wheel :picardfp:


if u want to spend 3k for a 240 then spend another 4.5k for a motor and install + a few bolt ons (not junk ones) u could have just got a mustang and been way faster if all your looking for is hp why buy a 240?

[brizanden]

the god poop manifold is poop and the excessive is not better. if your going itb anyway the thing is useless. unless you just want it fro the runners then are gonna mock up your own stacks and shit.

[Matej]

If you want to make a KA more fun, the first things you should get are a lightweight flywheel and an aluminum driveshaft.

[Big Zee]

assuming 150 cubic inches and a 7,000rpm redline:

155x7000/3456 = 313CFM @ 100% Volumetric efficiency
Thats about 200~ brake horsepower or about 175 to the wheels.

Now, if you would just spend about $2500 you could have an OEM sr20det engine from 1991 installed, which will produce about 250 horsepower to the wheels with zero modifications, and get better fuel economy, and probably be more reliable since nobody is going into the engine. You could even use the stock exhaust system.

:sadwavey:

I'm sorry try again ? 250 at the wheels ? its rated 205 from the factory.
by the OP's sig it sounds like he has a Silvia with a SR installed so why would he buy another SR to swap in ? There has been a few local people in my area do a dyno day at Zensport ( at the time, now 5252 motorsports ) and one a lightly modded SR swapped 240 ( they had full exhaust and FMIC and intake, 255 pump ) they made 175-185 to the wheels on stock boost.

so where did you get 250 stock from a 91 ?

OP, the hybrid KA is a sweet build, but not necessarily needed in your case. A local girl around here has a KADE with 250xxx on it, pullies, full header and exhaust system and intake, and a very good tune and she made enough power to beat up on SR's at auto cross.
here is a link to the car
PDM Racing - STS N/A 240SX Pink Princess (http://pdm-racing.com/contact/features/court240.html)

Honestly I think you can get away with just the hot cam swap or a set of 256's and a solid tune on a rebuild KA and make enough power to get into and out of trouble all day long.

[southernjake]

Honestly I'm already set on the hybrid ka setup. I have all the parts minus an ecu and a couple of bolts.

How does the cast header hold up against a tubular one?

[southernjake]

haha 250 wheel hp with a stock exhaust? the s15 motor only makes 260 crank not wheel :picardfp:


if u want to spend 3k for a 240 then spend another 4.5k for a motor and install + a few bolt ons (not junk ones) u could have just got a mustang and been way faster if all your looking for is hp why buy a 240?

You're not getting it... I'm looking for the optimal NA power band.

If I wanted a mustang I would have bought one. I've seen an NA KA make close to 300. That would shit on a 450hp fox body any day.

My whole NA setup cost me about $2k less than an S15 SR swap (or any swap for that mattet) and if my calculations are correct it will make more than 260 crank.

[southernjake]

If you want to make a KA more fun, the first things you should get are a lightweight flywheel and an aluminum driveshaft.

This will be a full build- all the way from the block with ALL new parts. I'm not cutting any corners- literally everything will be done to this car. It will be pretty much a race/drift only car.

[PoorMans180SX]

I've seen an NA KA make close to 300.


No way. Greaser made 235 to the wheels. No private individual has made more than that in recorded history.

Check out this guys build, he's making 210whp.

200whp NA Dyno - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1958)

[southernjake]

I never said it was an individual. It wasn't in a 240 either. Nissan used kade motors in their Baja trucks...

[PoorMans180SX]

Ahhh yes the legenday baja trucks...

[project-D180]

...i would go with a custom set of pistons with valve reliefs in them so u have less chance of bending valves,12:0:1 would b nice ..i ran 11:0.1 on 93 n 92 oct n had no knock whats0ever..i made 183 with no real tune shitty rom tune from efi specialist,with basic bolt ons headers exhaust n intake with xcessive intake mani..if u go itb i would run them with a plenum on top for a sick response,i seen a couple of vids of sr guys doing that to get a waay better/crisper throttle response.talk to rs enthalpy if u wanna go with a rom tune,he'll take care of u

[project-D180]

also would look into gasket match your head n maybe a 3 or 5 angled valve job

[Dream240]

I have a quick rebuild question.

I am currently rebuilding a KADE to a stock spec with OEM pistons and .5mm overbore. I already have a cometic HG and ARP headstuds, planning a basic turbo setup in about a year or so.

My question is, should I buy ARP rod bolts and replace the old used ones? Or will the old factory ones hold up as long as they're torqued to spec? My turbo plans or no more than 8 psi on this engine. I just want to add enough power so that I can pass on the highways and 2 lane streets easily.

Sorry for the thread jack, but any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[rcdad123]

I have a quick rebuild question.

I am currently rebuilding a KADE to a stock spec with OEM pistons and .5mm overbore. I already have a cometic HG and ARP headstuds, planning a basic turbo setup in about a year or so.

My question is, should I buy ARP rod bolts and replace the old used ones? Or will the old factory ones hold up as long as they're torqued to spec? My turbo plans or no more than 8 psi on this engine. I just want to add enough power so that I can pass on the highways and 2 lane streets easily.

Sorry for the thread jack, but any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
you don`t need the arp rod bolts but since you`re in there already, might as well. i call it cheap insurance. boost does not stress rod bolts, rpm`s do. so if you keep it at or below redline, there should be no problems.

[Dream240]

Okay great. That's what I was hoping for. honestly I don't want to pay another 50 bucks since this rebuild is costing me more and more each month.

I don't plan on redlining this engine that much, if at all. Really after the rebuild and turbo later this year, this car will probably be sold within the next couple years.

This whole project started where I just felt 250k miles was enough out of this engine. Now I'm wishing I would have just put the money into a new car!!! lol.

Thanks!

[Jlrios18]

Do you guys think it is a good idea buying used valve springs/retainers with 35,000 miles?

[Dream240]

Depends, what kind of springs are they? You can get new OEM springs for cheap. Also 35K miles isn't really low IMO. Unless you're getting them for free, I'd say pass.

[Kingtal0n]

haha 250 wheel hp with a stock exhaust? the s15 motor only makes 260 crank not wheel :picardfp:


if u want to spend 3k for a 240 then spend another 4.5k for a motor and install + a few bolt ons (not junk ones) u could have just got a mustang and been way faster if all your looking for is hp why buy a 240?

Ok, this is exactly what I am talking about when I come into a thread about N/A KA engines and get gang banged over a few horsepower and the terminology I use. "stock boost" is a misnomer. On the Silvia there is often an OEM selenoid that bumps it up to around 10psi which is good for damn near 250RWHP on any SR20 ever made. The T-25 maximum is 250RWHP around 12psi and the S14-S15 turbo can reveal 290RWHP from personal experience at 15psi. yes with stock exhaust.

But none of that crap matters. Who cares if I said 200 horsepower or 300 horsepower. There are examples of any random 2.0L engine that can hit those numbers with OEM equipment from Mazda to Subaru. My main point was simply this:

Two engines are sitting on the ground in front of you. Both of them produce "about" 200 horsepower.
One of them is modified extensively, the other one is bone stock.

What do you prefer for your reliable fuel efficient daily driver?

Ok, I admit they can be hard to find in good condition, what with being 20 years old. I admit parts can be hard to find if you do not live right near a shop full of spare parts. I suppose I am spoiled with all the local japanese junk parts dealers, when something breaks I just limp a few miles and grab whatever I need. So, for some people, this is not ideal, it just so happens that maintaining an SR20 is cheaper and easier for ME, not for everybody.

But I will tell you, if an SR20 was hard to maintain and source parts for, and I wanted a powerful naturally aspirated engine, I would still go for an ALL OEM version of something, probably an LSX engine. I would not attempt to make any kind of reasonable power (300+ horsepower) with the KA engine. I do not feel that is what Nissan intended that engine for.
Cheers.

[Dream240]

Point well made.

I personally am going with the KA because it can be way easier to remove a turbo kit and put on a sotck exhaust when it comes time for a smog, than to swap engines back and forth.

I live in Cali and it's not too hard to get parts here either. It's the smog laws and Po-Po's that push us to be more honest.

As for my turbo plans, I'm looking at the Greddy kit just because it's complete and I don't have to source out all the different crap. I'm prolly not even gonna go Intercooler just because it's makes the car more, "Hey look at me!!" And it's simple enough that I can just swap exhaust mani and exhausts, put my AEM intake back on and the OEM ecu and I'm good to go for smog day.

[NoPistons!]

You build an na ka for the cool factor. not because it's cheap or easy or rational.


I had one for a short time. They're fun. Wanted to dive into it a bit more but just kinda swept ka's under the rug after my first let me down so easily.

Tip. Keep your cams mild and you wont feel as though you have a vtec engine. DEGREE and CHECK your valves before you put power to the starter...... Sohc pistons dont have valve pockets.

Thoughts?

You are better off investing time and money into a silvia sr20de block, sr20ve head, some gti-r throttles and some patience if you want a budget all motor nissan banger. They breathe easier. Port design, shorter stroke, lighter full assembly. This comes from a guy who does not like sr20det much. I know they are cool and run good and go fast and upgrade this but i cant make myself like putting boost down aluminum cylinders with aluminum pistons, wanting more boost, the urge to bounce limiter and risk rocker death constantly prodding at my soul....... No thanks.

Best of luck to you. If you really want it done, you'll be a cool guy and get it done.

[southernjake]

You build an na ka for the cool factor. not because it's cheap or easy or rational...
This. I want something not everyone has.

I've had 2 srs and they both broke at some point due to the bullshit that comes with having a SWAP. Sure a ka can break too, but it's less likely too because there's not a whole lot of stress from forced induction.

I'm not taking any shortcuts and building this engine from scrap. If it takes 6 months (hopefully not, lol), that's fine because I know it has been done right. It will be a 0 miles, fully PURPOSE built car. No it will not be a daily. No it won't set any land speed records. But it will be one of the most unique 240s around.

Ls1 is cheating.

[nate1]

hey i just found this http://zilvia.net/f/chat/422199-datsun-510-ka24de-heart.html guys got a n/a ka with itb only 130whp still with a power band like the ka its crazy fun to drive. ill post up my set up once i get someone to take some good pics of my car as well as the dyno chart