KA24E No Start - Calling All Experts

[Gideon33w]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but have many car build under my belt. That's one of the reasons this KA is driving me nuts. Came home one day, turned it off, now it cranks but doesn't start. Now before you go telling me to check for easy stuff ...

1) Good battery
2) Good starter
3) Good grounds (from what I can check)
4) Mechanical timing is correct
5) Ignition timing is correct
6) Fuel system checks out fine
7) Have spark at all plugs, all gaped correctly
8) Oil is at proper level and viscosity
9) Head is operating correctly
10) Compression is good
11) Cranks freely

Basically, I've been through the fuel and ignition system 10x over and still have nothing. I'm thinking it has to be a sensor, a ground, or something KA specific that causes a no start condition. The fsm isn't very specific about what sensors will cause this condition. So I'm looking for those you are really in the know on KAs
I'm very open to input at this point. I only ask that you keep the basic stuff out of this thread. Might be my first KA but this isn't my first rodeo. Thanks!

[rob_g]

Just off the top of my head, I'd make sure the coolant temp sensor in good and an injector(s) are not stuck open.

[Gideon33w]

Just off the top of my head, I'd make sure the coolant temp sensor in good and an injector(s) are not stuck open.

Injectors are firing properly - I pulled the rail and watched them fire during crank

I've seen a few threads in my research where the coolant temp sensor causes bad running issues. Or a no start condition when hot. But I havent seen it cause no start while cold during my research. Confirmation on this? If it's shorted or open (I'll check soon) then I'd just swap a resistor in place temporarily as a proof on concept solution.

I know there could be several things causing a poor idle and run. But this is a no start which is confusing me. Fuel, air, spark, and compression all timed together should FORCE at least a bang. But I'm not even getting that :-/

[240sohc]

try the starter relay switch its located under the front passenger fender next to battery and windshield washer fluid tank.

[Gideon33w]

try the starter relay switch its located under the front passenger fender next to battery and windshield washer fluid tank.
Wouldnt that cause the starter not to engage at all? Therefor making for no cranking? Is it in the fuse/relay box by the battery or somewhere else?

[1jzjoey]

solution: get an sr

[240sohc]

Wouldnt that cause the starter not to engage at all? Therefor making for no cranking? Is it in the fuse/relay box by the battery or somewhere else?

yes, i had to push start my vehicle cause of this. and its NOT located in the fuse box.
heres a pic from nicoclub:
31906

try nicoclub for more info/tutorials/fsm if problem(s) persist, as well as check your clutch interlock relay(on clutch pedal) or ignition switch.

[Gideon33w]

yes, i had to push start my vehicle cause of this. and its NOT located in the fuse box.
heres a pic from nicoclub:
31906

try nicoclub for more info/tutorials/fsm if problem(s) persist, as well as check your clutch interlock relay(on clutch pedal) or ignition switch.

It cranks just fine. So there's no issue with the starter engaging. It turns with plenty of force too.
I already checked the clutch switch and bypassed just to be sure.
The ignition switch wouldn't allow for it to crank, correct?

Again, it cranks fine. It simply wont turn over.

[rob_g]

It cranks just fine. So there's no issue with the starter engaging. It turns with plenty of force too.
I already checked the clutch switch and bypassed just to be sure.
The ignition switch wouldn't allow for it to crank, correct?

Again, it cranks fine. It simply wont turn over.

You say it cranks, but won't turn over? Both are one and the same. In any case I assume everything seems fine but it's just not starting. If that's the case you should inspect the intake tube and boot. A leak there will keep your engine from starting.

[s13 @ fullboost]

Try using a little starting fluid in The throttle body if it starts for just a sec then most likely a fuel issue I know you said You had pulled the rail out And watched injectors fire but it wouldn't hurt to use a noid light on the harness side ohm each injector also. Sensors that could cause a no start, start with the crank sensor hope I have been of some assistance

[Gideon33w]

Sorry, yes turning over and cranking is the same thing I'm just frustrated with this car at the moment. It cranks fine but wont start.
Even with the intake and maf completely disconnected it should still start. It just wont stay running, haha. Either way, the complete intake path is unobstructed and sealed.
Already tried the starter fluid method to TB, with and without the fuel pump powered. Still got nothing. Also tried directing injecting the starter fluid into the chamber via the spark plug channels. Still a no-go :-/
I have completely ruled out the fuel system at this point. It has been checked in every way possible.

I'm currently leaning towards the coolant temp sensor causing the ecu to flood the motor. However, I've tried adding fuel manually with the fuel system bipassed and got nothing still.
It's really a mystery at this point.
Now, the dizzy has a notch in it to mate up to the oil pump so it cant be flipped around easily. However, if the gears below skipped then timing would be way off. The dizzy is aimed at 1 on the cyl 1 compression stroke so I dont think that could be the issue. Especially to happen spontaniously. But I'll still quadruple check tomorrow.

Other sensor possibilities ?

[rob_g]

So you have air, fuel, spark and still nothing. I see why you're frustrated.

[rcdad123]

are the plugs getting wet with fuel? how do the plugs look? how did it run last time you drove it?

[Gideon33w]

AND it's all timed together correctly. It's blowing my mind :-/
Plugs are wet with fuel when I pull them. They looked a little blackened when I first pulled them but I cleaned them up nicely. Ran awesome when it last ran, haha.

[rcdad123]

ok. try advancing the ignition/distributor timing one tooth. it may looked like it is too far advanced after you do this, but it worked for me. turn the crank pulley till you get to the first(advanced, not tdc) mark on the crank. make sure it is on compression stroke on the number 1 cyl. now look at the distributor rotor and make sure its pointing at number one cyl. pull the distributor out and rotate the shaft/rotor one tooth counter clockwise. this would make it advance mechanically. put everything back together, but don`t tighten the distributor hold down bolts yet. remove and dry the spark plugs and have somebody try to start the engine while you move the distributor till it starts. if the engine has a hard time cranking over, (ignition too far advanced), rotate the distributor clockwise a little bit. this method worked for me on a 1995 s14. good luck.

[waxball88]

Check your MAF for voltage with key on. I had this same issue and my ecu(tuned ecu) ceased grounding the EGI relay which sent no signal to the maf.
Try a different ecu or use a DMM to check

[Gideon33w]

Tried every distributor setting possible while someone was cranking the motor. All came back a no go.
Link to the maf pinout? I'd be surprised if it caused a no start but maybe.

[waxball88]

Consult the FSM should have a pinout or google.

[rob_g]

At this point I'd look for a loaner ecu.

[Mishkin_707]

Did you try looking at the fuse under the hood? Maybe that, the "eng cont" fuse, and in the KA24E it will not start if there is an intake air leak, I have a vid on YouTube showing this.

[Mishkin_707]

Here's the link, YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=-YowQqwi9ME) if the link doesn't work look up "intake tube, no start" and my screen name is armstec, I made that video awhile back for someone

[Gideon33w]

IAC is your Idle Air Control Valve. It's basically a throttle body bypass to allow air into the motor so she can start and run at idle. That was the first thing I went and checked. I really appreciate the help everyone but I've all but given up at this point honestly. I have too many other projects going to keep spending time on the 240. Posted it for sale on craigslist :-/

[Gideon33w]

Well, I have several people interested in the car. But last minute before I sell it ...
Is there ANYTHING else I can try or is there anything I can take pictures of for you KA experts to check out? I'd love to keep this car but not if I can't make it run :-/

[MurkyRiversS13]

This is probably gone, but this is also something that I am experiencing.

What I have done in the mean time to get the car running is before I try to start the car I press the throttle all the way to the floor then try to start it. It usually starts right away or will take a while cranking but will eventually start.

If that doesnt do it, then I pop the hood, unplug two injectors, crank it, she runs on two cylinders then I plug the other two injectors in.

What does all this mean? Well it means that you are not getting enough air or entirely to much fuel. I have replaced two injectors so far, and will more than likely replace the remaining two today to see how she does.


I have cleaned the Idle control valve, I have replaced coolant temp sensor, I have no boost leaks, no exhaust leaks, so Im at the last point and that is the injectors.


You probably had the same problem, sucks if you sold it.

[J90lude]

ok. try advancing the ignition/distributor timing one tooth. it may looked like it is too far advanced after you do this, but it worked for me. turn the crank pulley till you get to the first(advanced, not tdc) mark on the crank. make sure it is on compression stroke on the number 1 cyl. now look at the distributor rotor and make sure its pointing at number one cyl. pull the distributor out and rotate the shaft/rotor one tooth counter clockwise. this would make it advance mechanically. put everything back together, but don`t tighten the distributor hold down bolts yet. remove and dry the spark plugs and have somebody try to start the engine while you move the distributor till it starts. if the engine has a hard time cranking over, (ignition too far advanced), rotate the distributor clockwise a little bit. this method worked for me on a 1995 s14. good luck.

I've done this on my old prelude. It's def. worth a try. :D

[Gideon33w]

Ok guys here's the info:
The issue is spark
Proper setup is
43
21
But this gives me nothing no matter how much I advance or retard
When I set it to
31
42
I get the cylinders to light but she wont actually start
Advancing and retarding when set this way gets the exhaust huffing but she still wont start.
This is the only combination that gives me positive response. Every other possible setup has been tried and failed.
I made me think I was 180* out but when I set the wires 180* off she kicks out of the intake like it should when you're that far off.
The oil pump shaft is in the proper position when the motor is at TDC.

I just don't get it ... hahaha ...

[Gideon33w]

Oh, in response to a few of the comments ...
You cant advance or retard a single tooth on the sohc motors. The oil pump shaft is notched with a corresponding notch on the dizzy. They only fit together one way.

[sldwayz1]

I know you said you been through the fuel system but when u turn the key do you hear the fuel pump priming ? just a thought had mine do this ended up being the pump

[Gideon33w]

Yes the fuel pump primes. ALL systems check out fine besides spark.
If I pull the dizzy cap off and let it fire all crazy I get combustion but ofcourse it isn't controlled so it's just the 1 cyl that the dizzy cap happened to jump to at the right time.
ITS A SPARK ISSUE. Dont worry about anything else please.

[sldwayz1]

Sell the shit then kae's suck !

[Gideon33w]

I'll may sell the whole car as I might be getting laid off next week. Obviously the car is worth more running then not though. It would appear that no matter what I do for timing it's still off.

[sldwayz1]

Yeah that sucks!

[Gideon33w]

Ok, still the same crap but I found something odd. Didn't see it until now because it was so heavily caked with crap. These pictures are on the block below the header directly below cyl 3's exhaust port. It looks like a hole for SOMETHING that has nothing in it. So what the heck is this thing?
http://i.imgur.com/qYpDv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HMV7z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NyT2t.jpg

[Gideon33w]

Doing a bit of contortionism I was able to determine its a hole in the block :-(
Odd as it ran and drove nicely not very long ago. There's no fluids leaking from it despite the fact that all fluid levels are correct. There is no rod knock or anything so nothing smacked the side of the block. Yet another mystery :-/
I've sealed it up as best I can. If the block is junk then sealing it can't hurt anything.
Since it had RTV all over it I can assume the hole has been there a while with a craptastic attempt to seal it up.
Gotta wait until tomorrow to attempt another start. I'm thinking no fluid pressure or something of the like (due to the whole) is at least part of my issue.

[Gideon33w]

So it the other side of this a path for coolant or oil? Anyone know offhand?
I'm guessing it's a coolant path. Is there a sensor for monitoring coolant pressure on the KA24E? It can obviously run with that hole sealed up since it did before. Hopefully my fix is a bit better then a glob of rtv. :-/

[DadaG]

Thank you MurkyRiversS13! I had the same situation with my 95 240.

I unplugged two injectors and it started. Plugged the other two in an it runs and starts great!