Drift Techniques for a Newb

[Flybert]

So I finally went to my first event this weekend, DD10, and I had an instructor show me some things and it helped me a good deal but I still am struggling. Can someone give some good advice to a newb drifter like myself. Here is my info:

Car: 240sx coupe Base model or "the lightweight model"
Suspension: Apexi N1 PRO, Tein Tie Rods, SPL Parts T/C, SPL parts RUCA
Engine: Stock KA with no AC
Tires that I used this weekend: Front=Potenza RE950 (grippy all season) Rear=Potenza RE930 (shitty all season)

RE930's chunked like a mofo. I had to bail at 12:00 because of this. My GF's stock Accord wheels didn't fit because of backspacing so i was SOL. I have come to the conclusion that I spent way too much time on the skid pad. It was a good experience though but I wish I could have gone on the main course when it was my second turn around.

I'm going to buttonwillow this friday and I ordered 4 AVS ES 100's and my RE950's are still good. What would you recomend that I use on the back. Should I go ES100's all around or put the all season in the back.

Now to the real question. When I was out there, at first I was having trouble with countersteering quick enough until an instructor rode with me. I watched him and he would countersteer very quickly by chucking the wheel and catching it. That seemed to work pretty good for me and it was much smoother, allowing me to get more sideways. Do you more experienced guys do this too or is it more gradual? Another thing I had a problem with is that I kept my foot on the throttle too much because of my lack of experiece. Blipping it while in the turn helped to keep me steady but I would forget sometimes and spin out. I just need more experience. I didn't use the handbrake much because it didn't feel natural and I don't have a drift knob to ensure that my brake is all the way down when I'm done with it (that happened the 2 times that I used it).

As for initiating the drift, I would steer out and then back in while clutch kicking. I have an open diff right now but I'm not really sure how this affects my drift because I have no experience with anything else.

Can you guys give me some more tips? I pick up on things kind of quick and I wish I could have ridden with people a little more so as to further my edumacation in drift if you know what I'm sayin.

[holisticbeatz]

Oh yea, everything you're saying applies to me too. DD10 was my first event and I was soo lost. I let 2 instructors drive my car and they were freakin bad ass! So I figured if they could do it, then I could do it. But when I finally got behind the wheel with the instructors, I sucked! I understeered off course, spun out on numerous occasions and ran over every cone on left sweeper turn and on the skid pad.

It was so embarrassing. I stayed on the skidpad and the small course during my 2nd session. I kept practicing countersteering and connecting one slide to another. I eventually had to stop at around 4:00 pm when I blew out my a tire on my drift wheel. What a day! I have a lot to learn, but I'm definitely planning on going out again.

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/S14_flat.jpg

If a set of tires are balding with steel belts and cords showing or treadless, the drift session isn't over until those tires stop holding air.

[rancid240]

Yah DD11 will be my first event...so Ill be in your guys shoes soon.

I was a little apprehensive about registering, but now that I did I see that there are several novices so I wont be alone.

As far as tips go, Im sure most of the DD vets will tell you to practice more...time behind the wheel is most important to many of them.

[Flybert]

I don't see why you guys would feel embarassed about spinning out. It's natural when learning. You just wanna turn back around and get out of there as quickly as possible so you don't slow things down too much. Plus, there's lot's of people spinning out, even the good guys. In order to go bigger with your drifts, you need to try new things and different techniques.

Come on DOUSAN, give us some good advice here. I know you want to.

[Dousan_PG]

what i would do/suggset and this is just me on it
start at skidpad

do circles and go faster until rear end breaks loose
if it doesnt break, clutch in, ebrake clutch out
or clutch kick (not suggested unless you dont mind some car abuse)
shift weight (move steerign wheel in and out)

as it breaks, counter steer (fast or slow depending how rear end comes out

if you spin out probably too much counter or not fast enough.
too much gas?
too little gas (grips again)

dont be scared of higher RPM. KA is 5K + to keep it free easily.

once you get rera end out, counter and correct, counter left, right, shift the wheel back adn forth, keeping the car balance with steering and throttle control.



once you can do a few donuts successfully, try to move closer to cone and go around it same sized circle

or

try the J-turns

use the type of technique on the skidpad here to break it loose (car)

counter. it will be different because your nothing doing circles but 180s.

practice practice

for more 'advanced' drivers practice initation other ways (ebrake, clutch kick, feint, shift lock, front brakes, etc etc)



imho, clutch kick and e brake are 'easiest' to get the rear loose.


but its just practice, everyone has their own style.
too bad you couldnt ride w/ me Flybert. i was in dorifto's car all day (which sucked) but you could have seen another beginner driver doing donuts and all that stuff on the skidpad

i like:

come up to cone
go around it with nose of car (close to cone) a few times...then go BIG WIDE circles around cone, thn back to small circles

it helps me control car and the diameter of the donut. helps me on big track w/ lines.

going small to big to small to big to sorta small to really small to really big and all that as one big donut (no rear grip, just sliding) is good for practice.



most important on skidpad


WATCH YOUR WATER TEMPS!!!!!!!


once you get some initiation going and can hold the slide a bit, appl it on the bigger courses when you hit those. DONT think youll be the king just use what you learned

if you learned side brake to start, use that only on the big course. get the hang of it. get closer to perfect it. then try something new

ebrake is NOT a beginner technique!!

apply as many ways as you can until you can sucessfully start drifting and holding slides well. alos focus on lines and entry speeds/angles and such, and see if you can tweak them as if there was a 'object' in the road way. such as changing your line if coming in too hot or having a higher entry speed then exit or vise versa or going wide or hugging corner

just try new things, push the car, push yourself
when you learn something try it.

can you do it 4 times consistently??
then repeat and get better better and better

if the allowed passenger you could have hopped into the car i was using. next time. dd11 i SHOULD be doing (if all goes well)

[andrave]

I have the same problems... I have been working on chucking the wheel and catching it in the drift, thats usually how I do it...
I have to counter steer really quick or the back end comes around...

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by andrave
I have the same problems... I have been working on chucking the wheel and catching it in the drift, thats usually how I do it...
I have to counter steer really quick or the back end comes around...

my internet guess is

1) lay off the throttle more

or if you already are of the throttle,

2) use better rear tires, need more grip


oh i also forgot to put in my post

another VERY EASY and one of the most basic and simple techinques to induce oversteer: off throttle

turn in, off throttle, rear will come out. :) i like this one a lot, especially for skidpad action. :)

[Nismopu]

I purchased the "DRIFT KING's" Drift Bible and it has some really good stuff to practice! Like Dousan said and the same thing that the Drift King said E-brake is not a beginner technique! The biggest things he said to practice are 90 degree ebrakes without killing the car and 180 degree ebrakes without killing the car.

I guess this gives you a feel for pedal control and the rear end coming out quickly, plus it looks like alot of fun! My friends all made fun of me but that was until they tried it without killing the vehicle, harder than it looks assholes!

The braking drift doesnt look that hard but I am still more of a fan of coming in hot and letting the rear end come out, counter, gas, and power out.

The video also suggested practicing as much as you can in the rain and in the snow! It rains a ton up here in the northwest so everyday is pretty much a good day to practice.

Just my .02!

Good Luck!

KEIICHI "DRIFT KING" TSUCHIYA's "DRIFT BIBLE" can be purchased off of www.bestmotoringvideo.com

[Flybert]

Man I wish I could go to DD11 but I'll be short on funds because I'm going to an event this Friday and I need to save up for a KAAZ by Dec. 31st for the groupbuy going on.

Did any of the techniques you mentioned necessarily need an LSD to perform. It seems as though the off throttle sharp turn in would help with a 2 way or maybe a stiffer rear end. I really just think I need more seat time. I'll make another thread this weekend to give a little update and ask some more questions. I'm going to try to get as many rides as possible on Friday.

What kind of settings do you use with your coilovers in terms of adjustment with the front vs. rear? I messed around with it a little bit but I'm too shitty of a driver to take advantage of them right now. I am glad I have them though while I'm out there.

[Dousan_PG]

i dont like to post my settings beucase my car is not 'normal' to most haha..

anyways..just tinker with it and find what you like best and works best.

those all work w/o LSD but you cant do nice donuts w/o LSD for the most part.

learn on open diff and upgrade. when you get good on open diff people will think you have LSD :p hahaha

[S14TiNMAN]

ah, thanks for the reminder. gotta go on ebay to buy my copy of drift bible! haha. have you guys ever been caught or harassed by cops for practicing or drifting in open areas(industrial areas, empty parking lots....)??whats the punishment?

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by S14TiNMAN
ah, thanks for the reminder. gotta go on ebay to buy my copy of drift bible! haha. have you guys ever been caught or harassed by cops for practicing or drifting in open areas(industrial areas, empty parking lots....)??whats the punishment?

car impoundment
reckless driving
a night in county

[Flybert]

It's not worth it when all you have to pay is about $100 per event and you get a lot more experience than doing donuts in a parking lot.

The ticket for wreckless driving alone is about $500 plus your insurance will double coming out to about an extra $1300 per year until the points go away. You'll lose your license as well. Hell, I'll pay $100 for an event any day of the week to get out my aggression and have a shit load of fun.



The sucky thing about open diff is that you burn out tires on one side among other things. I'd rather burn em' out evenly and have two wheels pushing me through the turns.

[andrave]

I've done it on private property a few times and been chased out by security (mall security, plant security, whatever) but I wouldn't ever do it in a public place where people are around.
I have found if you are willing to wake up, early on sundays is the best time to go parking lot drifting.

[[email protected]]

flybert: 2 things u need right away... coilovers and lsd. learning will make a little easier. seat time and ask questions at the tracks.
words here will not make it easier for you to grasp because of lack of seat time. it's hard to project and imagine what they're trying to say until you keep going to the events and try and try.
spin out is good... it builds muscle memory and stabilizes your equilibrium. meaning, next time you go drifting you exactly know where you're facing and you exactly know where the car is pointing and how much angle and speed can the car take before it crosses the treshold and spin you out. this all will change when you keep jumping from tires to tires. right now it might not matter what tire you use... in the future it will. my suggestion, stop using shit tires and use same size on all 4 corners. perhaps like es100, fm901 or ziex if you have 15's. it's harder to initiate but easier to control and very predictable.

[Flybert]

Driftheaven, you have to give me a ride when we go to buttonwillow this friday.

I have the coilovers but I don't have the LSD. I'm going to try to jump in on the KAAZ groupbuy going on right now but not until the end of december.

I noticed that after DD10, my car is pulling to the right. My wheels with my tein tie rod and spacers kept slamming into my inner fender when I would spin out. I have to hammer the little ledge in there. I looked at the rods and they didn't look bent or anything. What do you think it could be? I just got an alignment at West End last week too. I'm going to give Darrin a call but I just want some suggestions as to what it could be.