Welcome to the New America

[RJF]

:picardfp:

Standard & Poor’s has downgraded the United States credit rating to AA+ from the top-notch AAA. Read the press release:

United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To ‘AA+’ Due To Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative

We have lowered our long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to ‘AA+’ from ‘AAA’ and affirmed the ‘A-1+’ short-term rating.
We have also removed both the short- and long-term ratings from CreditWatch negative.
The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics.
More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.
Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government’s debt dynamics any time soon.
The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to ‘AA’ within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

[Gnnr]

Fucking tea party....

[ESmorz]

We're all fucked, and it's only going to get worse before there is even a possibility it can get better.

Better get your kicks before the whole shit house goes up in flames.

[rc1honda]

The beginning of the birth pangs. Everything is coming to head but it's really not to late.

But it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because it is easier to start from scratch then fix our financial institution. If the country goes broke then there is a legitimate reason for no more pensions, no welfare, no free heathcare and financial aid for illegal immigrants, no social security, no medicare or medicade. No more reserve banking and Fiat currency. Start from scratch, the bankers and politicians already got what they wanted.

It's a scapegoat. The most eloquent scam ever enacted on a populous, perpetrated by world banks and powerful men. We gave our country to the banks almost 100 years ago. Now we pay for it. While politicians and bankers and investing companies got obscenely rich, the American people were subjected to the biggest illusion in civilized history. That our country was to big, rich, and powerful to fail. While the powers that be protected their well being and that of their families, the average American was bled dry and enslaved.

This really is like looking in a ancient mirror that reflects the fall of the Roman empire and many since. Financial irresponsibility.

[TheWolf]

Fucking tea party....

Fucking Giants Amounts of Debt....

[BustedS13]

RJF, can you give me some insight on how this is entirely the democrats' fault?

[Gnnr]

RJF, can you give me some insight on how this is entirely the democrats' fault?

http://genchan.org/b/src/131052127521.gif

[rc1honda]

World leaders to confer on debt crises this weekend - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/China-flays-US-over-credit-rb-3974888722.html?x=0)

Well the ish just hit the fan. China says it will no longer borrow to the US. Also, the Chinese are calling for a new standard currency that's more stable.

Now i don't know if most people know this, but that statement it pretty much a act of war. If the US dollar is no longer the standard currency, the money in every Americans pockets wont be worth the paper it printed on literally.

If the standard currency is no longer the dollar, oil will no longer be traded in dollars and gas prices will go to 10 or 15 if not more dollars a gallon. The start of the economic and social collapse of American infrastructure. If the standard currency changes, life as American will change drastically in the span of 24 hours.

I don't think most people know the gravity of the this situation. For the US as a nation to continue as has the imperative for the US dollar to remain the standard currency.

[Corbic]

World leaders to confer on debt crises this weekend - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/China-flays-US-over-credit-rb-3974888722.html?x=0)

I don't think most people know the gravity of the this situation. For the US as a nation to continue as has the imperative for the US dollar to remain the standard currency.

Exactly. This has been going on behind the scenes for a while. Middle Eastern Countries, China, India, Japan and Russia have all be talking about building their own new world currency.

The Euro is actually a failed attempt at this prior, but the idea is once all commodities are exchanged and bought in said currency, everyone else is at the mercy of that value.

So lets call it the "Dalie", if the Dalie goes up in straight, we all pay more, while the Chinese et al would just be getting more for their Dalie. You also then have to pay all the exchange fees, but also when you bid on a commodity, and actually pay for it are at two separate times.

So, I buy 5 million barrels of oil at the rate of 50 Dalies a barrel. The current exchange rate is $2 per barrel, so I spent 5,000 million USD to get these, however, in the following two weeks, the Chinese prime-minister says something stupid and the Dalie falls and its now 62 Dalies to the barrel, and 1.90 to the dalie.... and did i lose or make money cause i also have to pay .34% to convert my funds?

The other problem with all of this is that American is still one of the most violent and harden nations in the world. Look at our track records, we just can't stay out of a fight. (BTW its Democrats start more wars than Republicans, this isn't a party thing, but a cultural one).

This coupled with the fact that the rest of the world is still 15-20 years behind our Military in technological capability, 50 years behind it in experience and exercise and almost 70 years behind us in power project leaves a very grim out look for how the next hundred years will unfold.


It won't be a surprise when a nationalist party takes over blaming both Republicans and Democrats. There is already strong anxiety in from the middle and upper classes that the system is fucking them, their is already anger and anxiety about illegal immigration and the degradation of American values and culture in the wake of "tolerance" foreigners who openly spit on our ways (radical islam).

Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...

http://boxofmystery.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazi_rally.jpg/227474144/nazi_rally.jpg

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-NaziPartyDay_1934c.jpg

http://www.wired.com/underwire/wp-content/gallery/iron-sky-set/iron-sky-cast-better-660.jpg

[Freddy]

here an article explaining why there a down grade:

United States loses prized AAA credit rating from S&P | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/06/us-usa-debt-downgrade-idUSTRE7746VF20110806)

Here the report

http://www.standardandpoors.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobheadername3=MDT-Type&blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3DUS_Downgrade d_AA%2B.pdf&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobheadername1=content-type&blobwhere=1243942957443&blobheadervalue3=UTF-8


Here's summary of S&P's reasoning and link to the report:

Using the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip was a bad idea:

"The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy."

Medicare and Social Security must be reformed:

"the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability."

S&P doesn't care if the "balance" comes from more revenue (taxes) or more cuts:
"Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.'s finances on a sustainable footing."

The downgrade was due, in part, to a belief that the Bush tax cuts will remain. Previous projections treated them as expiring:

"Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act."


PS I didn't write this just thing that help me understand the situation

[Matej]

http://boxofmystery.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazi_rally.jpg/227474144/nazi_rally.jpg
Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

[lewisfk]

Ten years of no revenue, plus two wars unpaid for. O ya, the senior citizen prescription bill. Thats the Bush era shit, then the new healthcare bill. Most of the healthcare bill doesnt kick in yet. The biggest reason web are fallimg is the uneducated tea party , with the republicans who signed the berquiest bill. Whats ever that fuckers name is. No revenue, no jobs, no credit. Ya small government.

[slowvia]

You know what, I actually agree with you Corbic. In fact they have already proposed a new American currency that will replace the American and Canadian dollar, as well as the Peso, its called the Amero (sp?).
This is definitely scary times for the country and 99% of the population, who knows what can happen?

[Gnnr]

Exactly. This has been going on behind the scenes for a while. Middle Eastern Countries, China, India, Japan and Russia have all be talking about building their own new world currency.

The Euro is actually a failed attempt at this prior, but the idea is once all commodities are exchanged and bought in said currency, everyone else is at the mercy of that value.

So lets call it the "Dalie", if the Dalie goes up in straight, we all pay more, while the Chinese et al would just be getting more for their Dalie. You also then have to pay all the exchange fees, but also when you bid on a commodity, and actually pay for it are at two separate times.

So, I buy 5 million barrels of oil at the rate of 50 Dalies a barrel. The current exchange rate is $2 per barrel, so I spent 5,000 million USD to get these, however, in the following two weeks, the Chinese prime-minister says something stupid and the Dalie falls and its now 62 Dalies to the barrel, and 1.90 to the dalie.... and did i lose or make money cause i also have to pay .34% to convert my funds?

The other problem with all of this is that American is still one of the most violent and harden nations in the world. Look at our track records, we just can't stay out of a fight. (BTW its Democrats start more wars than Republicans, this isn't a party thing, but a cultural one).

This coupled with the fact that the rest of the world is still 15-20 years behind our Military in technological capability, 50 years behind it in experience and exercise and almost 70 years behind us in power project leaves a very grim out look for how the next hundred years will unfold.


It won't be a surprise when a nationalist party takes over blaming both Republicans and Democrats. There is already strong anxiety in from the middle and upper classes that the system is fucking them, their is already anger and anxiety about illegal immigration and the degradation of American values and culture in the wake of "tolerance" foreigners who openly spit on our ways (radical islam).

Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...

I see where your going but I highly doubt it. History repeats itself, and America's history is very very cyclical. Just study the period right after WWI to Great Depression.

If anything it will go into a period of deep isolationism just as it did in that time. Just like then people where tired of War, tired of intervening in the world, and had to deal with the crap economy. Even with trade and things like oil we could close ourselves off from the world if we really wanted to.

There is no strong push to go towards any extreme on the political scale at the moment like Communism vs Facism at the time (Tea party pressure etc is a joke compared to the pressure to go to those extremes at the time) but the US did find its happy medium then, and will again. The US does actually get up off its ass and deals with its problems when shit totally hits the fan.

Also, the funniest about party labels is that they are constantly exchanged between the ideologies of both parties. You can go back in history and see that the Deomocrats of now had the ideals pretty damn close to the Republicans and that Republicans had ideals pretty damn close to what Democrats had (we're talking decades here though). They just get tweaked and modified a bit here and there.

[tgd89]

...
Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...





Godwin's Law.

[Corbic]

Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

What makes me cringe is the self-proclaimed intellectuals that love to make smug comments about how everyone else is dumb but then actually contribute nothing nor make an attempt to explain why they THINK everyone is dumb and what they THINK is the "RIGHT" answer or explanation.

[Corbic]

Ten years of no revenue, plus two wars unpaid for. O ya, the senior citizen prescription bill. Thats the Bush era shit, then the new healthcare bill. Most of the healthcare bill doesnt kick in yet. The biggest reason web are fallimg is the uneducated tea party , with the republicans who signed the berquiest bill. Whats ever that fuckers name is. No revenue, no jobs, no credit. Ya small government.


If only Clinton took international terrorism serious and stopped Osama back in the 90's :duh:


The two wars are the response to 9/11, people have a short memory. Right or Wrong America wanted to punch someone, and guess who stuck their heads out? Even Kerry voted for the war... before he voted against it... I guess? Its a shame Obama wasn't in office at the time, It would have made an interesting voting record.

Also, the 2004 election almost had nothing to do with spending, neither side cared, it was who was a bigger war hero, the "i stubbed my toe and protested Vietnam" Kerry or the "My dads rich and I flew jets in texas in between dui's" Bush.

I seem to recall Democrats taking over the congress in 2006 as well... no? They've also done nothing to curb the spending but just slammed the pedal to the metal since they dominated all facets of the government for the last few years.


What is done is done. Stop bitching about the previous administration. I don't recall Bush crying about inheriting a lame duck intelligence agency and a overlooked global war on terrorism that spent 20 years festering before knocking down the world trade center.

[SimpleS14]

The pieces are falling together to create the opportunity to push a new currency and financial policy on a global scale. :/

[Corbic]

There is no strong push to go towards any extreme on the political scale at the moment like Communism vs Facism at the time (Tea party pressure etc is a joke compared to the pressure to go to those extremes at the time) but the US did find its happy medium then, and will again. The US does actually get up off its ass and deals with its problems when shit totally hits the fan.


I'm not arguing about a Communistic or Fascist take over. Remember, those are styles of Government. I don't think we'll take a radical change in governmental structure, just a radical change in both domestic and foreign policy, outlook and politics. Good example, today you can say your a Communist and even enter presidential appointed positions. In 1950's you would have been put in jail.


Also, the funniest about party labels is that they are constantly exchanged between the ideologies of both parties. You can go back in history and see that the Democrats of now had the ideals pretty damn close to the Republicans and that Republicans had ideals pretty damn close to what Democrats had (we're talking decades here though). They just get tweaked and modified a bit here and there.

Try a few hundred years. Republicans where once radicals and Democrats, who are seen today as champions of minorities and a massive Federal Government, started a Civil War over states rights and slavery (pro).

Demarcates also dragged us into both World Wars and two wars against communists as well as recognized Israeli as a state. Many today (right or wrong) would argue many Dem's resemble communists/socialists and are anti-Israel as well.

This is straying off topic, but all I'm saying is People are just animals at the end of the day, and when you push an animal in a corner, they show their teeth.

[BustedS13]

Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

makes me cringe when people from middle america weigh in on any topic ever. peasant

have you ever even had animal fries?

[shiftdrift]

just checking in, seemed like a premie party. then i saw busted....and realized it was a fairy party...shit

[BustedS13]

just checking in, seemed like a premie party. then i saw busted....and realized it was a fairy party...shit

when they got rid of the rep system, the circlejerk was over. being premie is so 2008; Welcome to the New Zilvia

[HalveBlue]

This is pathetic.

The current economic situation supersedes party lines and was decades in the making.

This isn't the Democrats' or Republicans' shit pile. It's America's.

The ramifications of this issue effect every American and, unless we fix it, will continue to do so for generations to come.

But instead of Americans working together to find a solution to an issue that affects us all, we'd much rather go off on tangents and blame the other guy.

Whatever...fuck it...ignorance is bliss...

[Gnnr]

This is straying off topic, but all I'm saying is People are just animals at the end of the day, and when you push an animal in a corner, they show their teeth.

Yeah, I just don't think we're even that disciplined enough to turn into some systematic army of citizens a la WWII Germany, Russia, Japan, China etc.

[Corbic]

This is pathetic.

The current economic situation supersedes party lines and was decades in the making.

This isn't the Democrats' or Republicans' shit pile. It's America's.

The ramifications of this issue effect every American and, unless we fix it, will continue to do so for generations to come.

But instead of Americans working together to find a solution to an issue that affects us all, we'd much rather go off on tangents and blame the other guy.

Whatever...fuck it...ignorance is bliss...

The problem is democracy. When everyone's vote is equal, but in actuality everyone is far from equal in education, income, earning potential and "amount of give a shit" when have a problem.

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

[Gnnr]

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

Thats nothing special. If the lending bubble showed us anything is that lots of morons bought property. Eitherway, statistically the lower the education level attained the lower the voter turnout anyway.....

[ineedone]

This is just S&P. Last time I checked they were so awesome that they completely missed the financial meltdown last time around (and carry no real legitimacy to anyone except politicos). Please get your heads out of the doomsday machines. It means nothing, half of Europe is still AAA with S&P and I can guarantee you NO ONE is running to put their money in that cluster... Other than creating great bumper stickers for the half-wit tea party idiots who hate the government but love their non government medicare (get it?) nothing has changed.

[ineedone]

The problem is democracy. When everyone's vote is equal, but in actuality everyone is far from equal in education, income, earning potential and "amount of give a shit" when have a problem.

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

Yeah that worked great... I mean labor is cheap when it is slave labor too... lets get back to that.

[Gnnr]

This is just S&P. Last time I checked they were so awesome that they completely missed the financial meltdown last time around (and carry no real legitimacy to anyone except politicos). Please get your heads out of the doomsday machines. It means nothing, half of Europe is still AAA with S&P and I can guarantee you NO ONE is running to put their money in that cluster... Other than creating great bumper stickers for the half-wit tea party idiots who hate the government but love their non government medicare (get it?) nothing has changed.

Oh BTW, the CEO of the S&P (McGraw) is Republican....

[Corbic]

Thats nothing special. If the lending bubble showed us anything is that lots of morons bought property. Eitherway, statistically the lower the education level attained the lower the voter turnout anyway.....

Its not that "smart" people own property, but simply if you own property you are paying taxes and have a vested interest.

Its easy to scream for more benefits when you contribute nothing and have nothing to lose if taxes are raised, companies go out of business and the middle and upper class collapse.

[RJF]

Fucking tea party....

It's not the Tea Party's fault, it's the Democrats and the Asshat in the White House that won't reduce spending. Tea Party wanted a $4Trillion cut that would have averted the downgrade.

[Corbic]

Yeah that worked great... I mean labor is cheap when it is slave labor too... lets get back to that.

When did, its called "Neo Slavery"... see you just go to countries where you pay workers nothing and force them to work 60-70 hours a week living in barracks to make your products which you then put into mega chains stores. Oh the wonders of Walmart.

‪China "automated" stamping plant chinese factory‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YnaHNcISw)

Why the fuck is it acceptable to sell products made in the fashion in America? If that plant was in the US there would be trials and lawsuits up the ass for paying those guys $5 a day to sit in a progressive die working 10-12 days, 6-7 days a week, no over time, no benefits. Shit, its not here, so who care.

In 100 years people will look back at outsourced labor in the same way we look at Slavery from the 19th Century.

[RJF]

RJF, can you give me some insight on how this is entirely the democrats' fault?

http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/8FF53B0C25F739A5B496DFCA7F00636A.jpg

Who controlled Congress from 2006 to 2011?

[Corbic]

Fucking tea party....

Yes cause the Tea Party was in control of Congress for the last 4 years and the Presidency for the 3. Not to mention the Treasury. :down:

[ineedone]

Its not that "smart" people own property, but simply if you own property you are paying taxes and have a vested interest.

A lot of the military does not own property, they rent it from the government... do they get to vote? Do they contribute? A vested interest? How about being a citizen of the country is the only "vested" interest that is required. If you have a job you are paying taxes... if you buy goods you are paying taxes... If you interact with the economy in any way, you are paying taxes...

Its easy to scream for more benefits when you contribute nothing and have nothing to lose if taxes are raised, companies go out of business and the middle and upper class collapse.

It is also easy to make stupid arguments.... The middle class is being consumed by the top 1% (ish). The gap between the middle working class and the upper class has astronomically increased, so the upper class is definitely not collapsing.

Government will never be perfect, will never be 100% efficient but the idea is to make government work better not to completely get rid of it. Oh, and last time I checked tax rates under Clinton did not ruin the economy, tax rates under Regan did not ruin the economy. I hope the Kool-aid over there on drudge or whatever right wing propagandist website you get your info from is not to strong.

[ineedone]

http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/8FF53B0C25F739A5B496DFCA7F00636A.jpg

Who controlled Congress from 2006 to 2011?

Heritage, where the truth is well... out there?

[RJF]

Yes cause the Tea Party was in control of Congress for the last 4 years and the Presidency for the 3. Not to mention the Treasury. :down:

Nice that you just make up lies.

The Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006 and the Republicans only took control of the House in January of this year.

Meanwhile, the DEMOCRAT Controlled Senate has not passed or even submitted a budget for over 820 days.

[Gnnr]

I think you missed the sarcasm RJF...

[ineedone]

It's not the Tea Party's fault, it's the Democrats and the Asshat in the White House that won't reduce spending. Tea Party wanted a $4Trillion cut that would have averted the downgrade.

No... the downgrade was coming no matter what from S&P. What would have worked was a clean bill months ago... But Barry apparently is a Jedi who has to have made some sort of political calculation on letting the Republicans and Tea Party look like complete fools.

Just cuts would kill the already lagging economy, EVERY real economist has said that (on both sides). The gang of six deal that had 3 trillion in cuts and 1 trillion in revenue would have been a good step.

The Tea-Party wanted default, which would have be swell...

[RJF]

Just cuts would kill the already lagging economy, EVERY real economist has said that (on both sides). The gang of six deal that had 3 trillion in cuts and 1 trillion in revenue would have been a good step.

The Tea-Party wanted default, which would have be swell...

Yeah, cuts would have killed the economy even more. 9.2% unemployment, 0.4% GDP growth this past quarter.

That's a roaring economy!

Go read some history and see what economic policies Ronald Reagan enacted when he took office in 1981 and how quickly that economy started recovering. Obama has done the complete opposite and unemployment has never been this high this long and he has enacted policies and regulations that are crippling business, such as the oil drilling moratorium, to name just one.

[ineedone]

Yeah, cuts would have killed the economy even more. 9.2% unemployment, 0.4% GDP growth this past quarter.

That's a roaring economy!

I said lagging but hey, who really reads anymore? I am going to just go ahead and assume you are note that caught up with what the economist have said. Do some research. Krugman to Will to whoever else you need. Seriously, all of them said 4 trillion in just cuts would have been... well... plain stupid. You will find that same sentiment from Bloomberg to NYT to the WSJ.

Go read some history and see what economic policies Ronald Reagan enacted when he took office in 1981 and how quickly that economy started recovering. Obama has done the complete opposite and unemployment has never been this high this long and he has enacted policies and regulations that are crippling business, such as the oil drilling moratorium, to name just one.

PolitiFact | Barack Obama says taxes are lower today than under Reagan, Eisenhower (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/sep/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-taxes-are-lower-today-under-reag/)

That has to hurt... Reagan helped the economy by increasing defense spending by extraordinary levels, which led to more jobs around the board (mainly in manufacturing). We could argue that he was reaping the benefits of the policies that were in place before hand (and an overall improving economy within the region) but I would think his major government stimulus into defense and other parts of industry were the major factors. How about you go re-read history... not from Fox though... and have fun learning your hero Reagan was more a progressive/liberal than Obama... seriously it will burn, but just at first. It gets easier with time. Tootles!

[Bushido]

Go read some history and see what economic policies Ronald Reagan enacted when he took office in 1981 and how quickly that economy started recovering. Obama has done the complete opposite and unemployment has never been this high this long and he has enacted policies and regulations that are crippling business, such as the oil drilling moratorium, to name just one.

For seven of Reagan’s eight years in office, the top tax rate was higher (http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html) than the current 35 percent. In six of those years, it was 50 percent or more (http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html). And every year that Regan was in office, the bottom tax bracket was higher (http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html) than the current ten percent. For a family of four, the “average income tax rate under Reagan in 1983 was 11.06 percent (http://www.rgj.com/article/20110421/NEWS20/110421053/Fact-checker-taxes-lower-under-Obama-than-under-Reagan-Clinton-). Under Clinton in 1992, it was 9.18 percent. And under Obama in 2010, it was 4.68 percent.” During Reagan’s time, income tax revenue ranged from 7.8 to 9.4 percent of GDP (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals). Last year, it was 6.2 percent (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals) and is not projected to climb back to 9 percent until 2016. In fact, in 2009, Americans paid their lowest taxes in 60 years (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm).
Republicans are very fond of saying that the U.S. has “a spending problem, not a revenue problem (http://camp.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=236418).” But the truth is that revenue has plunged due to the recession and to continued misguided tax cuts (http://www.offthechartsblog.org/what%E2%80%99s-driving-projected-debt/), and revenue needs to be raised to eventually bring the budget into balance. And Reagan knew that taxes were an important part of the budget equation. After all, he “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/05/142288/reagan-centennial/),” including four times in just two years.

[Toi]

Stop outsourcing, stop buying substandard death trap stuff from China, let the rest of the world solve their own problems.

I know this wouldn't solve much but it is a step in the right direction!

[dudermagee]

It's not the Tea Party's fault, it's the Democrats and the Asshat in the White House that won't reduce spending. Tea Party wanted a $4Trillion cut that would have averted the downgrade.


Yeah and alot of that was at the expense of social security and medicare.
No thanks I paid into that, I want it. In the end they did about 2 trillion in tax cuts, at least they were willing to negotiate. However the GOP refused to even look at getting rid of the Bush era tax cuts for the wealthy.


Sorry but the tax cuts need to go away for EVERYONE, its actually backfiring.
I can afford to give mine up, I'm sure the wealthy can as well.

This trickle down economic BS is not working.

[enkei2k]

This whole shit has been orchestrated by the Illuminatiand the New World Order. They knew that downgrading the US would have negative impact on EVERYTHING (including psychologically), but they did it anyway just to screw with us. It's all a conspiracy theory!!!!!!

[bb4_96]

Stop outsourcing, stop buying substandard death trap stuff from China, let the rest of the world solve their own problems.

I know this wouldn't solve much but it is a step in the right direction!

It would solve much more than not much

[40daws]

This sums up most of what I would say to those that say the Replublicans are the Uncanny X-men and the Democrats are the Morlocks.

Link: Bill Maher: New Rule: Americans Must Realize What Makes NFL Football So Great: Socialism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-football-sociali_b_815673.html)

New Rule: With the Super Bowl only a week away, Americans must realize what makes NFL football so great: socialism. That's right, for all the F-15 flyovers and flag waving, football is our most successful sport because the NFL takes money from the rich teams and gives it to the poor teams... just like President Obama wants to do with his secret army of ACORN volunteers. Green Bay, Wisconsin has a population of 100,000. Yet this sleepy little town on the banks of the Fuck-if-I-know River has just as much of a chance of making it to the Super Bowl as the New York Jets - who next year need to just shut the hell up and play.

Now, me personally, I haven't watched a Super Bowl since 2004, when Janet Jackson's nipple popped out during half time, and that split-second glimpse of an unrestrained black titty burned my eyes and offended me as a Christian. But I get it - who doesn't love the spectacle of juiced-up millionaires giving each other brain damage on a giant flat-screen TV with a picture so realistic it feels like Ben Roethlisberger is in your living room, grabbing your sister?

It's no surprise that some 100 million Americans will watch the Super Bowl next week - that's 40 million more than go to church on Christmas - suck on that, Jesus! It's also 85 million more than watched the last game of the World Series, and in that is an economic lesson for America. Because football is built on an economic model of fairness and opportunity, and baseball is built on a model where the rich almost always win and the poor usually have no chance. The World Series is like Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You have to be a rich bitch just to play. The Super Bowl is like Tila Tequila. Anyone can get in.

Or to put it another way, football is more like the Democratic philosophy. Democrats don't want to eliminate capitalism or competition, but they'd like it if some kids didn't have to go to a crummy school in a rotten neighborhood while others get to go to a great school and their Dad gets them into Harvard. Because when that happens "achieving the American dream" is easy for some, and just a fantasy for others.

That's why the NFL runs itself in a way that would fit nicely on Glenn Beck's chalkboard - they literally share the wealth, through salary caps and revenue sharing - TV is their biggest source of revenue, and they put all of it in a big commie pot and split it 32 ways. Because they don't want anyone to fall too far behind. That's why the team that wins the Super Bowl picks last in the next draft. Or what the Republicans would call "punishing success."

Baseball, on the other hand, is exactly like the Republicans, and I don't just mean it's incredibly boring. I mean their economic theory is every man for himself. The small market Pittsburgh Steelers go to the Super Bowl more than anybody - but the Pittsburgh Pirates? Levi Johnston has sperm that will not grow up and live long enough to see the Pirates in a World Series. Their payroll is about $40 million, and the Yankees is $206 million. They have about as much chance at getting in the playoffs as a poor black teenager from Newark has of becoming the CEO of Halliburton. That's why people stop going to Pirate games in May, because if you're not in the game, you become indifferent to the fate of the game, and maybe even get bitter - that's what's happening to the middle class in America. It's also how Marie Antoinette lost her head.

So, you kind of have to laugh - the same angry white males who hate Obama because he's "redistributing wealth" just love football, a sport that succeeds economically because it does exactly that. To them, the NFL is as American as hot dogs, Chevrolet, apple pie, and a second, giant helping of apple pie. But then again, they think they're macho because their sport is football, when honestly - is there anything gayer than wearing another man's shirt?

[Corbic]

This sums up most of what I would say to those that say the Replublicans are the Uncanny X-men and the Democrats are the Morlocks.

So, you kind of have to laugh - the same angry white males who hate Obama because he's "redistributing wealth" just love football, ?

Although the fact the article was posted on the huffington post should be more than enough evidence that it's a load of shit... He closing statement just highlights his level of integrity, intelligence and honesty..

S&P announced it was the inability to work together that caused the downgrade. Nothing like the race card and name calling to bring people together and agree on an idea.


Since Left/Dems love to call Right/Rep "Angry Rich White Men"... can the right now call the left just a bunch of "whinny uneducated coloreds?"

[Gnnr]

The man who caught S&P's $2 trillion error - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/treasury-2-trillion-man-020900153.html)

It was quick thinking by a little-known Treasury functionary that nearly saved the U.S. credit rating on Friday—but didn’t quite.

After Standard and Poor's informed the government of its intention to downgrade the national rating from a pristine AAA to AA+, Treasury officials in Washington huddled to look over the ratings agency’s draft press release. It was reportedly John Bellows who noticed within minutes that S&P had made a glaring error that placed its calculations about the U.S. deficit off by about $2.1 trillion.

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner quickly pushed back at S&P, pointing to the error. The agency acknowledged its mistake, then said it was charging ahead with the ratings change anyway. Later that evening, it officially downgraded American debt.

S&P is now a corrupt Republican puppet...

[Corbic]

The man who caught S&P's $2 trillion error - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/treasury-2-trillion-man-020900153.html)



S&P is now a corrupt Republican puppet...

Only if Obama is a corrupt Chinese Puppet.

[Gnnr]

Sure. I think both sides are full of shit. I'm Independent. I have no loyalty to any political party, only to this country.

[bb4_96]

The only reason this thread will reach 10,928 pages is because there are just as many people who feel one way as there are people who feel the other. I side with both parties on the debt debate. Dems want too much aid and GOP wants to hang hobos out to dry. Never going to find a happy medium with extremist left and right.

[RJF]

YouTube - Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR)

cMnSp4qEXNM&NR

[bb4_96]

^and their legislation to prevent the fallout was....

[HYPNOTIK]

The problem is democracy. When everyone's vote is equal, but in actuality everyone is far from equal in education, income, earning potential and "amount of give a shit" when have a problem.

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

I'm in the Air Force and have been overseas for the last 4 years and will be for another 3 1/2. I don't own any property...

I understand what you're saying about everyone being equally educated, blah, blah. But, is something as minuscule as owning a patch of dirt the benchmark for being "educated" and able to make intelligent decisions concerning who/how our country is governed?:mepoke:

[bb4_96]

I'm in the Air Force and have been overseas for the last 4 years and will be for another 3 1/2. I don't own any property...

I understand what you're saying about everyone being equally educated, blah, blah. But, is something as minuscule as owning a patch of dirt the benchmark for being "educated" and able to make intelligent decisions concerning who/how our country is governed?:mepoke:

+1 Everyone should vote. The purpose of representatives are to be the buffer anyway.

[ineedone]

Only if Obama is a corrupt Chinese Puppet.

I thought he was a Kenyan Alien Moooslim :hahano:

I am not sure if you know how this democracy of ours works, but the President does not make laws (or the budget for that matter). That is the congress's job, and yes they are corrupt puppets, but not to the Chinese... only to big business and corporate interest.

[Karlitos]

YouTube - Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR)

cMnSp4qEXNM&NR

Fox, the typical republican television program. I'm over this stupid choose your party thing, people need to stop being greedy f*ckers and come together for our dying economy. So many people on both parties seemed to have failed Econ 101. More spending boosts economy. More taxes, boost economy. America charges chump change for personal taxes yet is asking for all the corporations to leave. I hate citing wiki but File:Income Taxes By Country.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg). I'd rather pay taxes than pay for healthcare, education, police, etc., all individually. Collect taxes and that way I don't have to worry about crap, government just redistributes.

And what's with all this gov' regulation on EVERYTHING? Aren't we supposed to be free? Gov' needs to get out of the economic sector and need to privatize as much as possible. Why isn't weed legalized yet? I mean we would save how much money from people in jails? We could collect how much tax percentage? If only the gov' would just stop being such a babysitter and stop treating us like we don't know jacksh*t we would be in a much better place.

Like stated above, this discussion will never end because current politics are way to extremist. We no longer have what made America strong. A middle(of everything, class, politics, etc). The economic gaps are at some of the highest they've been. And its not for the better, the middle is declining and that hurts. We no longer have people that can agree, everything has become to left wing or to right wing to agree on. No more bi-partisan, no more middle class, and a dying sense of unity.

Then again I'm only 18 and getting brainwashed by the public education system (which is a joke) so what do I know?

[word sux]

eh its been far to long since the last world war


LETS GIT IT ON!

[word sux]

the fact that any of you still try and say this is a demicrats, republicans issue. your ignorance astounds me. Demicans, republicrats who gives a shit. they are two sides of the same coin. washington is like a big soap opera that they put on for us peasents, to keep us quiet and thinking that our "voice" is till heard.

[Corbic]

the fact that any of you still try and say this is a demicrats, republicans issue. your ignorance astounds me. Demicans, republicrats who gives a shit. they are two sides of the same coin. washington is like a big soap opera that they put on for us peasents, to keep us quiet and thinking that our "voice" is till heard.

Bring back King George III!