S13 road racing. Brakes?

[USAFs13]

Im planning on daily driving/road racing and still trying to get my car put together.....slow process due to getting married($$$) but I'm wondering for someone just getting into the sport will a full z32 brake swap be worth it or kind of overkill. I see lots of people just swap the fronts. Only asking because Im at the point now where I need to do some brake work (rears are clunking and banging when in reverse and the front rotors have grooves etc).

[whiterps13]

I think youll be fine with Z32 fronts and good pads on the rear to be honest.

If you feel like doing the whole swap, just remember that Z32's used a drum e-brake assembly which can be kind of a pain in the ass. Its not just as easy as swapping rears and calling it a day.

[herbieS13]

depending on how much youre looking to spend and how serious you are, you can get away with stock brakes with SS lines and some really good pads, oh btw i have cross drilled rotors for stock brakes if you wanna go that route :)

[USAFs13]

I was thinking if I do end up doing the rear brakes I will have Z1Motorsports do the install on the rear brakes because from everywhere I have looked people say the rear is a pain to do because of the e-brake.

[cured13]

instead of paying for who knows how many times rebuild z32 used brakes, lines,cables, pads, rotors and all hardware you should really consider Wilwood kits. Much better brakes, brand new and no headaches.

[Sleepy_Steve]

On my '95 240 that I use mostly for HPDE track weekends, I run stock sized cheapo blank rotors, ATE supper blue fluid, hawk blue pads, and use the stock lines. I do have some 3'' brake ducting up front which is very helpful, and I've removed the factory dust shields.

Its a very effective setup assuming you're not making a ton of HP, and also very affordable in terms of pad / rotor cost. If you have more HP, just run a Carbotech XP10 pad and you'll still come out ahead of the consumable cost of the Willwood setups.

[Silverbullet]

z32 brake swap

in case your looking, i have a pair of brand new Z32 28mm Brembo rotors I'd like to sell.

[!Zar!]

On my '95 240 that I use mostly for HPDE track weekends, I run stock sized cheapo blank rotors, ATE supper blue fluid, hawk blue pads, and use the stock lines. I do have some 3'' brake ducting up front which is very helpful, and I've removed the factory dust shields.

Its a very effective setup assuming you're not making a ton of HP, and also very affordable in terms of pad / rotor cost. If you have more HP, just run a Carbotech XP10 pad and you'll still come out ahead of the consumable cost of the Willwood setups.

This, everything, yes!

[hOngsterr]

you can use stock brakes, upgrade brake fluid to ATE Super Blue or Motul RBF600
then buy poterfield pads & new cheap rotors. cheap and good upgrade.

EDIT, i didnt read steves post, but i'd recommend poterfields, bite harder then hawks.

[codyace]

Steve nailed it. The big thing is to just run the cheapest rotors your local parts store has.

I ran a Z32 with Carbotech XP12 setup for a while (and on a 13" rotor towards the end) without any complaint at all at beginner level. It wasn't until I moved up in groups and speed that I needed to goto a larger setup.

[Sleepy_Steve]

Yeah, I found that I can get a whole set of 4 rotors from rockauto for under $100 shipped to my door assuming you know where to find the 5% off online discount codes.

[BNASTYs13]

get the z32 conversion with some nice rotors and invest in some racing fluid that has a super high boiling point. maybe even get one of those megan racing heat shields and some gold heat shield tape

[Def]

Stock calipers (which includes Z32s) are horrible for consumables once you actually go fast. Who cares about how cheap rotors are when you're smoking $150+ race pads in a few weekends?


I've already paid for my DefSport brake kit with the reduced pad cost and the fact that they last over twice as long as the same pads on Z32 calipers.

[OLDSCHOOLRICE]

+1 for the Defsport brakes.

Great quality set-up and great feel, with properly engineered components that bolt on properly.

They have held up to a couple of track days at Streets of Willow, and I easily have 5+ track days left on the pads including the daily driving between track days.

Rotor replacements only cost $42!!!

[!Zar!]

Q45 calipers!

[Def]

Q45 calipers!

Pad selection is horrible on them, plus it's hard to get decent F/R brake bias with any Nissan MC.

[codyace]

Pad selection is horrible on them, plus it's hard to get decent F/R brake bias with any Nissan MC.

Without a doubt, I'd sooner put better brake pads on the stock setup than going with Q45:D

[codyace]

Stock calipers (which includes Z32s) are horrible for consumables once you actually go fast. Who cares about how cheap rotors are when you're smoking $150+ race pads in a few weekends?


(for Zilvia, not for Jacob :D )

I'll be the first to admit to everyone that I wasn't sure about upgrading, but man I am VERY glad that I did after the track. Excellent bite, no fade, and general badassery from the setup.

The pads themselves are the best part..look how thick they are! That's twice if not 2.5x the thickness of new Z32 pads stock! Atop of that, the pads are bigger, and cost much less! (Z32 Carbotech XP12 pads = $205 SuperLite XP12 pads = 185) And you'd go through 2 set of Z32 pads over the life, so you'r elooking at over 400 dollars vs 185 for the same time.

http://www.codyace.com/albums/album434/install1.sized.jpg
The rotors (after buying the kit) are a steal at 42 dollars a piece. Thick, properly vented, and cheap = win:

Granted the Carbotechs don't tear up the rotors bad, but some do! With that said, some do. If you run a aggressive pad that eats the rotor, now you're spending more money for rotors again, atop of more money for pads.

http://www.codyace.com/albums/album434/brakes5.sized.jpg




Overall: http://www.codyace.com/albums/album434/install2.sized.jpg





So in the end, is it worthwhile? THink of it this way:
Defsport kit:
400 bucks for Defsport Kit
185 pads
84 Rotors
60 for lines? (I forget)
Calipers = 300
Total: 1029

Z32 Setup:
200 for Iron Calipers (which are heavy as sin, I'd try and find aluminum)
200 for pads
60 for lines
60 for rotors
Total: 520 bucks
Total after a year of good usage: 780-800+

(Or if anyone with a Z32 setup is running them on Cobra/G35 13" rotors, which most track forward people are, are as the stock Z32 rotors suck)
Z32/Cobra Rotor Setup:
200 for Iron Calipers (which are heavy as sin, I'd try and find aluminum)
200 for pads
60 for lines
150 for conversion brackets
120 for rotors
Total: 730
Total after a year of good usage: 1000+

After 3 decent track events on Z32, you're going to need new pads, and I always like using new rotors with new pads (just me)
So every 'year' persay you're going to spend another 300 dollars on Pads and rotors...so after the first year of track stuff it really costs you close to 1100 dollars to run a Z32 setup/1250 for Cobra Rotor for a track car...heck for a couple hundred more initially step up to the WilWood setup, have BETTER brakes, less weight, and cheaper operating costs?

If you're into track days/AutoX/HPDE/etc, you're probably going to have your car for more than a year or 2 (lets face it, track guys typically keep their cars longer), going with Defsport kit is the ONLY way to fly. In the end, is the DefKit awesome? Yes. Is it for everyone? Certainly not. If you're only taking the car out for one hpde a year, it may not be worthwhile for you, as you're probably not running a super agressive pad, and you're on the street...in which Z32 setup works, but if you're banging on the car as it shoul dbe, don't even waste time with Z32.


Cliffs for Morons who have the attention span of a fly
-You'll spend more running a Z32 setup after a year of good track days than a Defsport kit. Don't waste your time with Z32 setup if you're a track guy
-If you're a street car, then Z32 setup is decent bang for buck and will work.

[josephin510]

Pad selection is horrible on them, plus it's hard to get decent F/R brake bias with any Nissan MC.

Without a doubt, I'd sooner put better brake pads on the stock setup than going with Q45:D

Ouch I thought I was ontop of the world.

[OLDSCHOOLRICE]

Defsport kit:[/B]
400 bucks for Defsport Kit
185 pads
84 Rotors
60 for lines? (I forget)
Calipers = 600
Total: 1329
I think you doubled the price on the calipers.

I went with Hawk HP+ pads ($85) although I wish I would have picked something something a little more aggressive. The HP+ feel great on the street and canyons, but they lack good feedback when up to temp.

So in short I got my Defsport setup for about $929.

[S14DB]

Z32 Setup:
300 for Used Aluminum 30mm Calipers
120 bucks for Rebuild kit and Shims
200 for pads
60 for lines
100 for rotors
Total: 780 bucks

I think your prices are a little high.
$55x2=$110 for rebuilt Aluminum 30mm Calipers
$20x2=$40 for rotors

[codyace]

I think your prices are a little high.
$55x2=$110 for rebuilt Aluminum 30mm Calipers
$20x2=$40 for rotors

Curious at this I looked them up
Z32 Rotors
Carquest: 56.40 list, 36.52 my cost. So rotors would really be closer to 73 a set before Tax at my cost. THis is the midrange rotor, they don't offer the cheap one anymore

Rock Auto's Cheapest Rotor is 27.99 so that would be 56 dollars before shipping. Using my own zip for shipping, it's 17 dollars to ship them both, putting the total to (Oddly) 73 dollars

Advance Auto: (Wearever/cheap grade) Is 31 dollars a rotor, 62 total before tax

Cobra Rotors:
Carquest: Mid Grade-- 94 after tax my cost/142 list after tax
RockAuto: 120 shipped

Calipers

Carquest: Iron and Aluminum same cost
List, 129.78 My cost $79.87 CORE CHARGE:$55.00
Got the right cores: YOu're looking at 260 bucks List/160 dollars my cost. However, who's going to have the right cores? Pretty much nobody, that is why they are buying them. Tack 55 on there
Caliper Each: 135 at my cost (270 before tax for 2) 370 before tax list

Rock Auto Only offers Iron (and limited amounts at that)
105 dollars (core included), 210 total, 220 shipped.

Advance: Same pricing as Rock Auto, sans tax.


So I'll subtract money from the totals, I overshot them for sure

[Def]

Yea, a pair of Superlites is $300, not $600 Cody. :D


Z32 calipers from any parts store are super expensive, especially when you're paying that much more for the iron ones.

The 12.2" Defsport brakes are about 20 lbs LIGHTER than aluminum 30 mm Z32 brakes, and 27 lbs lighter than iron 30mm Z32 brakes. The difference is immediately apparent if you're doing anything but hard parking.

[codyace]

Yea, a pair of Superlites is $300, not $600 Cody. :D


Z32 calipers from any parts store are super expensive, especially when you're paying that much more for the iron ones.

The 12.2" Defsport brakes are about 20 lbs LIGHTER than aluminum 30 mm Z32 brakes, and 27 lbs lighter than iron 30mm Z32 brakes. The difference is immediately apparent if you're doing anything but hard parking.

Edited again. Damn I'm loosing it anymore.

Bottom line is, after one year your Kit is cheaper and MUCH more effective than a 13" rotor kit with the Z32 caliper. Anyone looking into proper braking should not even look at a big Z32 setup.

[nighthawk48]

If you feel like doing the whole swap, just remember that Z32's used a drum e-brake assembly which can be kind of a pain in the ass. Its not just as easy as swapping rears and calling it a day.

How about superlites in the front and dual z32s in the back set up? just curious, despite the loss of "parking brake"

[S14DB]

Curious at this I looked them up
Z32 Rotors
Carquest: 56.40 list, 36.52 my cost. So rotors would really be closer to 73 a set before Tax at my cost. THis is the midrange rotor, they don't offer the cheap one anymore

Rock Auto's Cheapest Rotor is 27.99 so that would be 56 dollars before shipping. Using my own zip for shipping, it's 17 dollars to ship them both, putting the total to (Oddly) 73 dollars

Advance Auto: (Wearever/cheap grade) Is 31 dollars a rotor, 62 total before tax

Cobra Rotors:
Carquest: Mid Grade-- 94 after tax my cost/142 list after tax
RockAuto: 120 shipped

Calipers

Carquest: Iron and Aluminum same cost
List, 129.78 My cost $79.87 CORE CHARGE:$55.00
Got the right cores: YOu're looking at 260 bucks List/160 dollars my cost. However, who's going to have the right cores? Pretty much nobody, that is why they are buying them. Tack 55 on there
Caliper Each: 135 at my cost (270 before tax for 2) 370 before tax list

Rock Auto Only offers Iron (and limited amounts at that)
105 dollars (core included), 210 total, 220 shipped.

Advance: Same pricing as Rock Auto, sans tax.


So I'll subtract money from the totals, I overshot them for sure
Yeah, it's $66.49 for the Iron(C9027/6) for me. But, The Aluminum(C8300/1) is only $55.09. The cores they just check that there is a caliper in the box.
The Wearever(YH141536) Rotors were $18.18 each and the duralast(31126) $20.53.

The Aluminum's are getting harder to find. Would Def's setup be overkill for the street?

[Def]

It drops a ton of unsprung weight and pads are dirt cheap and will last until the 14th rapture on the street since they're a 1/4" thicker and slightly larger in plan view than Z32 pads.

10 lbs of unsprung weight per wheel is like going from the heaviest Rota to a magnesium centerlock BBS wheel - you can REALLY feel it in how your suspension responds better. IMO, the performance advantage is pretty cheap for the upfront price, and the components used are dirt cheap for 2 pc rotors and a forged aluminum caliper with stainless steel pads.


The Wilwood kit for our car uses ~$190/ea replacement rotors, so you're going to get destroyed money wise if you ever wear the rotors out (they subsidize the kit price below MSRP of all parts not even including the brackets).



The larger rotor size up front really gives the brakes a "premium" feel to copy a Best Motoring term. Basically, with a larger diameter rotor you get a much easier to modulate braking system since you're not having to go to super high braking line pressures to get the desired torque which tends to bind things up. If you want an example of what I'm talking about, go drive a modern BMW with big brakes - it feels a lot more like with respect to modulation.

My car brakes great on the street except for the loudest squealing brake pads ever known to man and the sparks shooting out of the wheels (Hawk DTC-60 pads).

[codyace]

Yeah, it's $66.49 for the Iron(C9027/6) for me. But, The Aluminum(C8300/1) is only $55.09. The cores they just check that there is a caliper in the box

The Wearever(YH141536) Rotors were $18.18 each and the duralast(31126) $20.53.

Who are your accounts through? That's rediculous in cost, but then again we tend to stay away form the cheapest bullshit, as it always come back with issues.

PS: Shame on your store for not checking cores, that ruins the market. I'd sooner buy godspeed than do that.



The Aluminum's are getting harder to find. Would Def's setup be overkill for the street?

Yea, because guys like you throw Chevy 1500 calipers in the box for cores! LOL!!!!! Overkill is a funny term. As I typed at the end, yes it's overkill for the street. It however is a great street setup too :D

It drops a ton of unsprung weight and pads are dirt cheap and will last until the 14th rapture on the street since they're a 1/4" thicker and slightly larger in plan view than Z32 pads.

I honestly would rate the difference closer to 1/2" thicker.


My car brakes great on the street except for the loudest squealing brake pads ever known to man and the sparks shooting out of the wheels (Hawk DTC-60 pads).

I'm thankful the Carbotechs are relatively quiet :D

[Sleepy_Steve]

Price brake down for stock calipers and stock rotors:

Initial cost:
Supper blue fluid = $30 for two cans that will last a couple years.
Calipers = $0
Rotors = $100 (for all 4 shipped from rock auto)
Pads = $220 (for front and rear Hawk blues)

Total initial cost = $350

Running cost = 3 events before the front pads and rotors need to be replaced ($160) and probably 5 or 6 events before the rear pads and rotors need to be replaced (another $160).

And yes, I'll probably need to go to an XP10 or XP12 pad all around when I move to r-comps, and that will bring my running cost up to between $200 and $235 per axle depending on which axle and pad choice.

The up front cost of def's brakes were a big part of what scared me away from finishing the setup. An extra grand or more AFTER buying the hats / brackets / hardware kit, and increasing the consumable cost of the rear axle over stock in a big way (Z32 rears) were things that needed serious consideration. The deal breaker for me wasn't the cost of the brakes, but the cost of getting new wheels and tires if the calipers didn't clear my 16'' RPF1's which I have 2 sets of tires for. It may not sound like a lot to some of you guys with 5-10 sets of tires sitting around, but not having to buy new tires for the next year or so is just as important to my racing budget as not having to spend a grand or more on brakes when I can get by spending less than $400 which was covered by selling off my DefSport BB Brake kit to another guy on NRR.


Def's brakes are a great setup, especially compared to the cost of running a Z32 setup. It would be the stuff to have if you're competing and/or have "real power", but I'm not either of those, and so is from my understanding the guy who started the thread.

[S14DB]

Supper blue fluid = $30 for two cans that will last a couple years.
Once you open a can of Brake Fluid it starts absorbing water. Not something you can hang onto.

If you are tracking your car I would change the fluid out every season. The proper way is to run the Blue one season. Then next season switch to gold to make sure you get all the old stuff out. Then back to blue the 3rd season.

[Def]

Once you open a can of Brake Fluid it starts absorbing water. Not something you can hang onto.

If you are tracking your car I would change the fluid out every season. The proper way is to run the Blue one season. Then next season switch to gold to make sure you get all the old stuff out. Then back to blue the 3rd season.

I'd run Motul RBF600 at a minimum if you're going to run fluid for a season. Ate Typ200/Superblue doesn't have a high enough boiling point.

[hOngsterr]

so the def sport bbk have a rear caliper also or is it just the fronts?

[Sleepy_Steve]

Just the fronts.

[codyace]

I'd run Motul RBF600 at a minimum if you're going to run fluid for a season. Ate Typ200/Superblue doesn't have a high enough boiling point.

Withotu a doubt the Motul stuff lasts longer, but for most people Running Blue / Yellow for 1-2-3 days a year isn't going to hurt them.

so the def sport bbk have a rear caliper also or is it just the fronts?

Just fronts. You can upgrade to an Altima rotor for the rear for another 1" diameter of rotor.

[Briou]

If you do end up going with the z32 rears here is a link for the whole swap...including the 5lug swap onto a s13...but you really don't have to change the hubs over if you don't want/need to....
S13 300ZX Rear Brake Install & 5-Lug Swap - Nissan 240SX Forums (http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/resource-center/103183-s13-300zx-rear-brake-install-5-lug-swap.html)