Ron Paul or Obama?

[BustedS13]

if it comes down to Ron Paul or Obama, who would get your vote?

please refrain from making these posts in this thread:
-"i'm voting third party bro"
-"i'm not voting, lesser of two evils bro"
-"i'm 16 so my opinion doesn't mean shit but here it is anyway"
-"here is a talk show host's incendiary opinion on (political candidate) and/or conspiracy theories"

anyway, i feel betrayed by the Obama administration, so voting republican might be a real option this time around.

[GeneralLee562]

RP all the way.

[MikeisNissan]

RP pro marijuana.

[godzillarb]

RP all the way, bruh.

[ronmcdon]

Between the two, Obama.
But let's be realistic here, chances of RP winning the Republican Primaries will be close to nil.

You might want to elaborate on why you feel betrayed by Obama,
that could be interpreted in endless ways.

[[email protected]]

RP, but I doubt he will ever come close to winning.

[theronin]

RP, but I doubt he will ever come close to winning.

pretty much this.

[gearhead55]

I was so frustrated after watching that first republican debate. Ron Paul said all of this economically conservative stuff that made SO MUCH SENSE while that Caine guy just spouted some fucking regurgitated republican rhetoric, then afterwards Fox news interviews all of these idiots saying "OH EM GEE Caine won my vote for sure!".

jesus fucking christ.

as for me i'm not sure which way i'm going to go yet. I like a lot of what Paul says, but i'm worried that he might lean too far on the side of low regulation of business and banking, and we all know the situation that that has put us in.

[BustedS13]

Between the two, Obama.
But let's be realistic here, chances of RP winning the Republican Primaries will be close to nil.

You might want to elaborate on why you feel betrayed by Obama,
that could be interpreted in endless ways.

bombing Libya, not closing Guantanamo, administration completely reversing its stance on medical marijuana. this was definitely the better choice for '08, but maybe not for '12.

if you had to guess, who would you say has the best shot at being the republican presidential candidate?

[ronmcdon]

It's really hard at this point to guess.
there's a lot of possible candidates, but not a whole lot that have committed.
Let's see, for those who have committed to run, today, 2012 & are have somewhat strong publicity, you have Mitt Romney, Newt Gingricht (again not realistic), and Ron Paul.
I think by fall '11 we should have a better idea with who are committed to run.

I'd probably guess Romney, if I had to guess right now.
(not whom I would personally endorse, but who I think has the most chance succeeding right now)
However, I'm also skeptical b/c I think his professed healthcare plan isn't going to make him too popular within the R primaries, or just conservatives in general.

There's going to be a lot of changes into the R-primaries & it's just way too early for any meaningful speculation at this point imo.

[sr20sean]

RP definitely

[lewisfk]

no RP! He approves on over turning civil rights laws!

[gearhead55]

There's going to be a lot of changes into the R-primaries & it's just way too early for any meaningful speculation at this point imo.

+1

no RP! He approves on over turning civil rights laws!

what are you talking about? explain.

[lewisfk]

+1



what are you talking about? explain.

RP was asked to comment during his last tea party debate about his son's remarks about over turning civil rights laws in the state of Kentucky. He said he stands by his sons remarks. If u like YouTube his interview with Rachel Meadow show, he is question about his views. The big one is his take on segregation.

[lok]

I think he was trying to say that the Govt. should not have the right to tell private business that they cannot have the right to refuse service to people of there choosing.

I don't think it really matters because the color of money is still green and no "for profit" business is going to exclude people that are willing to spend there money for the business's service.

I think that Paul is just for getting Govt. out of the business of trying to run every little thing in peoples lives.

[BustedS13]

RP was asked to comment during his last tea party debate about his son's remarks about over turning civil rights laws in the state of Kentucky. He said he stands by his sons remarks. If u like YouTube his interview with Rachel Meadow show, he is question about his views. The big one is his take on segregation.
i think you're talking about his take on desegregation, which i agree with.

Paul wrote of his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964):
It "not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society. Federal bureaucrats and judges cannot read minds to see if actions are motivated by racism. Therefore, the only way the federal government could ensure an employer was not violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was to ensure that the racial composition of a business's workforce matched the racial composition of a bureaucrat or judge's defined body of potential employees. Thus, bureaucrats began forcing employers to hire by racial quota. Racial quotas have not contributed to racial harmony or advanced the goal of a color-blind society. Instead, these quotas encouraged racial balkanization, and fostered racial strife."

if i'm reading this right, he's saying forced diversity is bullshit, and i completely agree.

sauce: Political positions of Ron Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Civil_Rights_Act_o f_1964)

from what i'm reading his son says similar things.

[ESone3]

I think people should have rights to do what they want with there body, free to marry whoever they want, and free healthcare.

OBAMA FOE YO MAMMA!

[LimeLite Racing]

I'm either voting third party or I'm not voting at all. Lesser of two evils bro. But my opinion doesn't mean shit here anyways because I'm only 16. I really like the Jimmy Falon show. He brings in some decent bands on occasion.

[BustedS13]

I think people should have rights to do what they want with there body
so Obama wouldn't be your first choice, got it

[lewisfk]

Hey guys right know to be honest your going to have two chooses a democrat or teaparty guy! The republicans don't bring anything to the table. Check all the hate and discontent they started at the state level in Wisconsin. There targeting unions police,nurses,and firefighters. RP can when if he goes against the republican brand.

[ronmcdon]

the tea party is one of the main reasons why i no longer identify with Republicans.
If the Republican primary is one by a teaparty fav or anyone on the far right, their chance of winning the prez election will be lower.
Courting the moderates & indie voters will be key imo.

Honestly I think Obama will most likely win another term,
unless something really bad happens, like the economy tanking even further.

[ronmcdon]

I think he was trying to say that the Govt. should not have the right to tell private business that they cannot have the right to refuse service to people of there choosing.

I don't think it really matters because the color of money is still green and no "for profit" business is going to exclude people that are willing to spend there money for the business's service.

I think that Paul is just for getting Govt. out of the business of trying to run every little thing in peoples lives.

Great interpretation. I also agree with RP 100%

[redline racer510]

How bout Baron Obaula with bio-engineering anything is possible,lol JP. I honestly can put my hand on my heart and say I don't want to vote anymore it's depressing. The U.S. government is a very shady underground organization more than any of us would like to think.

[kingkilburn]

You know what would kick ass?

RP - president
Colin Powell - secstate
Hilary - vp
Anthony Weiner - speaker of the house
Petraeus - secdef

[gearhead55]

You know what would kick ass?

Anthony Weiner - speaker of the house


I fucking love watching that guy debate people. He's awesome.

[lflkajfj12123]

Ron Paullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[FaLKoN240]

I don't trust anyone with first names as their first and last name.

[Matej]

Ron Paul seems like a really nice man, but I just cannot see him as president.
He just is not arrogant and shady enough to ever get voted in.

Also, the sillies who only attach themselves to him because of marijuana and are responsible for Ron Paul now automatically being associated with it are not adding to his image. They are just as bad as everyone who took the Obama 'Change' hype way too far and embarrassed all the other Obama voters.

[rps13drift]

Ron Paul!!! Dude is a true patriot!

[axiomatik]

I know that a lot of Ron Paul's speeches sound great, and sound like common sense. But the reality is that trying to implement his image of America would be disastrous. Not only that, but it is completely unrealistic. It can't be done. The president is a powerful position, but the president only heads one branch of the government. It is congress that actually writes and passes laws. The president can only do so much to influence what congress passes.

Getting back to what I said about implementing his ideas. People complain and complain about the size of the federal budget. But you know what? Most of it is Social Security and Medicare, programs that we pay into when we are working, and take advantage of when we retire. Social Security is nothing more than a nation-wide retirement plan. You pay now, and when you retire, you get a monthly check. Who wants to go and tell their grandmother that they want to take away her monthly Social Security check that she depends on to pay her monthly bills? And how are we going to replace Medicare? If we take away Medicare, where are the elderly going to get medical insurance? They certainly need it. If we did not have Medicare, either the elderly would have to go without insurance, or working children would have to add their elderly parents to their own insurance, which would be hugely expensive.

The third biggest budget item is the military. Frankly, with operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, there isn't a whole lot we can do about the defense budget right now. But as those operations scale back, I think military spending needs to be scaled back as well.

The 4th big budget item is interest on the national debt. Not a whole lot we can do about that. We borrowed that money in the past, now we have to pay interest on it.

That leaves all other spending. And you know what? It only represents about 1/4 of the government budget. All other spending, roads, research, HUD, everything else only makes up 1/4 of the budget, but that 1/4 is all people ever talk and rant and scream about.

Here's a couple pie charts, they differ here and there, but you can get the general picture:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n-njTteDnPw/SGZNx1RNqkI/AAAAAAAACm0/W3NFk43nTrA/s400/PieChart.jpg

http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/03/2/0/8/57947631856917206.png

http://thefalconpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Budget-Pie-Chart.jpg

[kingkilburn]

Social Security is a ponzi scheme.

Medicare/aide are completely miss managed and inefficient.

Military spending is beyond logic. It's like communism. There might be a number on that price tag but it's completely meaningless.

That last 1/4 of the budget can still be cut in half.

[ronmcdon]

Any reasonable speculations are to what will happen with Social Security in the next few decades? The thought of that is just horrifying.
We could, and really should, should cut back on military spending.
That is where I agree with RP & Libertarians the most, is on an isolationist's stance, at least with military interventions.

Obama mentioned in the news the other day, that he intends to have the US gov't help middle eastern countries (egypt, libya, etc) rebuild themselves.
Seems to me this is just Obama appeasing corporate interests again.
That isn't going to go so well with voters.

With the way things are going, the republicans are going to have a chance unless some ultra-right candidate like Palin wins the R-primaries.

[imotion s14]

Any reasonable speculations are to what will happen with Social Security in the next few decades? The thought of that is just horrifying.

Anyone on this forum who counts on SS being there when we hit retirement age is going to be eating cat food in the future, so I'd suggest they get use to the taste of it.

Yeah it's going to be hard times if entitlements get axed, but the consequences of kicking the can down the road is complete economic ruination for everyone.

The government will fulfill it's promise of cutting your grandpa/grandma a check. They're going to get the money they are promised. They're going to go cash it. They'd going to take cash and then go buy some food or pay bills but then they'll find out that they got their money but it doesn't buy anything. Their purchasing power has been significantly reduced. But it's not just grandma and grandpa, it's going to be the entire country.

We could, and really should, should cut back on military spending.
That is where I agree with RP & Libertarians the most, is on an isolationist's stance, at least with military interventions.

RP is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist, but people use these terms almost interchangeably when they're not even remotely similar.

Also RP is my congressional rep, so of course he has my vote.

[T chop]

I wouldn't vote for a bible thumping,anti abortion,75 year old-ish republican..... so I wouldn't vote for RP

[Csomme]

But you'd vote for a liar and a cheat, someone who supports killing unborn children who already have a heartbeat, someone who has raised the US debt exponentially, who takes vacations every 2 weeks with my hard earned money, who would love to cut ties with Israel, someone who has an addiction for trying to rebuild other countries with the US's money, etc.

[kingkilburn]

You mean you don't want him to vote for any president since Truman. lol

[Mr Miyagi]

Im 16 so my opinion doesnt matter but here it is anyways, id vote 3rd party bro!


But in all seriousness, Obama killed Osama, clearly hes better.

[T chop]

But you'd vote for a liar and a cheat, someone who supports killing unborn children who already have a heartbeat, someone who has raised the US debt exponentially, who takes vacations every 2 weeks with my hard earned money, who would love to cut ties with Israel, someone who has an addiction for trying to rebuild other countries with the US's money, etc.

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

[Mr Miyagi]

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

[Csomme]

I'm sure if Bush was able to run again you would probably vote for him.

-Obama is a Muslim
-He was born in Africa
-Osama isn't dead it's a conspiracy
-His birth certificate was forged
-He goes on vacations every week
-He is a puppet controlled by corporations
-The world is flat
-The bible is real

You probably believe all of that.

No, I wouldn't vote for bush, but I just don't understand why the fuck you want more government. That's just plain stupid.

And no, but I do believe in the Bible, which teaches responsibility, punishment for wrongdoing, etc.

[Csomme]

But in all seriousness, Obama killed Osama, clearly hes better.


So how did Obama kill Osama? He shot that guy? I could have sworn Seal Squad 6 killed Obama. Shit, thanks for letting me know that he trained for months to complete a mission like that. I could've sworn he just sat on his ass and took credit for it. My B.

[kingkilburn]

Get trolled why don't you.


I think it's high time America wises up to the super duo that is Mike Huckabee and Ross Perot.

[Csomme]

Get trolled why don't you.



Happens every fucking time, I feel like I'm 16 again, I have to comment on everything.

Huckabee is the man.

[Mr Miyagi]

Happens every fucking time, I feel like I'm 16 again, I have to comment on everything.

Huckabee is the man.

Dont take ANYTHING I say seriously :bigok:


Lets all vote for Jackson!

[Bobafreak]

Donald trump!

[thrax]

Not American but if i were RP. Just purely on wanting to reform the fed and banking system in general. Hopefully he would put in prison all the schemers from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. and sieze their assets (which would be hundreds of billions at least). Credit default swaps and the way they insure themselves is pure fraud. New laws can be passed to prevent the problems the fractional banking system has as well.
On top of that RP would probably crack down on lobbyists. Both foreign and corporate. It doesn't hurt that he is a long time medical doctor too.

[axiomatik]

As a liberal, I disagree with many of Ron Paul's views. However, I do respect his honesty. He seems to be one of the last true conservatives in modern America (the Republican party having been taken over by big-government neocons).

Anyway, today I read this article that I thought was pretty good. And the comments section seemed to be filled with intelligent comments instead of the partisan demagoguery that you usually see on political sites.

Reaction to Ron Paul shows some Americans are exceptionally stupid | NJ.com (http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2011/09/reaction_to_ron_paul_shows_som.html)

[Corbic]

I'll vote for anyone but Obama, hell maybe Hillary will challenge is lame ass.

Obama, worst president since Linden Johnson. (yes, he's worse then Carter, Carter actually believed his own BS).

[fliprayzin240sx]

Honestly, you can't really blame Obama for everything. The last 4 yrs has been shit due to the bi-partisan bullshit/circus between the White House and Congress. Instead of working together, they fucking wanted to rip into each other to one up each other.

[drift freaq]

Not American but if i were RP. Just purely on wanting to reform the fed and banking system in general. Hopefully he would put in prison all the schemers from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. and sieze their assets (which would be hundreds of billions at least). Credit default swaps and the way they insure themselves is pure fraud. New laws can be passed to prevent the problems the fractional banking system has as well.
On top of that RP would probably crack down on lobbyists. Both foreign and corporate. It doesn't hurt that he is a long time medical doctor too.

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

[T chop]

Ron Paul will never even get the republican vote, he has zero chance of getting elected. Not saying I would vote for him but a lot of what he says makes sense and then there's the ideas that are "out there" and turn off too many voters.

I can't realistically see anybody but Romney or Perry going up against Obama. Those two kind of remind of Coke and Pepsi keeping everyone else down. I think it's going to end up Obama and Romney.

The thing that bothers me about American politics is that there is too much campaigning blah blah blah, when they could be using that time to work on issues. It seems like the day a person gets elected their next campaign starts. The election is next November? And they have already had a few solid months of campaigning that is wasted. The campaigning and advertising etc should start maybe a few months before an election not years.

[Wake]

Im voting "socialist".

[rc1honda]

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

I think we are missing the bigger picture of what RP was really saying when he talks about bank reform. I am American and have done a fair amount of research on this.

I have strong feelings about the banking systems in our country. You go so far as to blame the American people for the insolvency of our major banks in 08. This was allowed to happen through the greed of these large banks and their predatory lending tactics enacted on the American people. Naive people, but normal Americans just the same. American's were very enthusiastically sold a dream. The banks would of made billions in interest and still own the collateral through the debtors default. These are powerful and dangerous financial tactics used to make untold wealth. The only reason it didn't work it because everyone seemed to go broke and default at the same time. Then when the markets got wind of the tactics used against the general public everyone saw it for what it was. A elaborate scheme. The banks actually wanted the debtors to default, this way the get the interest and the collateral. It's was a absolutely brilliant, and nefarious scam. And it almost worked.

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone. They should have failed, and the bailout was a huge mistake. If only for the reason the it left the very people the brought the global economic platform crumbling down in less then a decade, still in charge. And let me remind this was just one of the incompetent and predatory tactics used by these banks to generate extreme wealth on the backs of other companies and Americans.

Now RP has some ideas that were not so foreign to Americans 200 years ago when we signed the Declaration of Independence, and ratified our Constitution. That's the free market and trade will rule the financial markets and set interest, and that the government will regulate and distribute currency, not some Ultimate bank.

RP wants to go so far as to abolish the FED completely. And for this reason alone he should have every Americans vote who don't have ties with a large financial institution. Fact is, fiat currency is the way of world as i believe it should be. But, we do not have to borrow it a base interest. The government can mint and distribute currency independently. This alone would save John Q tax payer thousands of dollars in useless income tax that goes to pay down the debt.

The second reason why anyone with any worry of Americas future should vote for RP is that he wants to overturn the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act that was heralded as the greatest way to protect us from scary terrorists, is actually the greatest act of terrorism ever enacted on the American people in and of itself. It completely and utterly undermines every single one of yours and mine personal liberties and rights that our forefathers deemed unalienable.

These 2 reasons alone are enough for me to put up with any of his pro-life bullshit, or any other thing that he may be to conservative on. These 2 things are of the most dire importance to the American people right now at this present day in history.

Vote RP and let him get the these 2 things accomplished. After that go ahead and vote for any big business, green treehugger, war monger moron, tax loving hippy you want. Everything else is arbitrary until these 2 things get accomplished.

[MasonBarnard]

i have to say i prob wont vote, And its more based on the conspiracys and shit honestly. Regardless of who we pick for president, the president doesnt do to much, more like a puppet. But thats why id have to say ron paul, cause if that was the case, then Ron seems like he might be able to change that. Im very very paranoid about our government, and find myself researching to much...and getting scared hahaha

[Wake]

Its not paranoia.

Our government is shady as fuck. Americans know this and care to do absolutely squat about it.
We are dumb and fat and want the most opulent luxury we can have for the least amount of work, as long as it doesnt require thinking for ourselves.
Its more and more obvious everyday right here on zilvia

We are the Rome of the new world.

[Corbic]

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone.

Yes, but AIG does not make loans out to individuals.

They loan money to your local bank who then loans it to you... and they do this because the loan officer gets a bonus for every $1,000 they loan out.

Why are we not raising torches to throw all of the loan offers in jail? They are the foot soliders and are in the best position to see if you can afford the loan, or if the house you are buying is worth it.

The other scumbags out there are realtors. They get 6% of the selling price, its in there best intrest to make the house sell for as much as possible. They are constantly talking people into spending more money. I went through two Realtors before finally being fucked over. All of them wanted to show me houses that where clearly more then I was looking to spend and told them I was going to spend.

Just watch HGTV any of the house buying shows. Couple has $50,000 saved up, they get approved for $250,000.... so? To me this means you look at 200-250,000, you put 50g down and now you have a mortgage of 150-200k.

But, the Realtor always goes "Great! Lets start looking at 300-350k!!" with 50k down that brings you close to your 250k cap and a bank will work with you if your at 270k or so!!"

[Corbic]

Its not paranoia.

Our government is shady as fuck. Americans know this and care to do absolutely squat about it.
We are dumb and fat and want the most opulent luxury we can have for the least amount of work, as long as it doesnt require thinking for ourselves.
Its more and more obvious everyday right here on zilvia

We are the Rome of the new world.

Europe is further along.

The problem is that its overwhelming. What can you, WakeBHR personally do that will cause any change or improvement?

The answer? Nothing.

To actually see a drastic shift in politics you need party reform or some form of term limits.

Party reform is not going to happen. The Tea Party tried to do this. Whether your agree with their views or not is irrelevant. They did not see either party offering the solutions they wanted and tried to unit to get their idea of "change" into effect. Both partys and the media shit all over them to ensure the status quo remained the same.

With no viable third party, its a "yes/no" vote every time. Do you want Obamacare - yes or no? Do you want to go to war in Libia, yes or no? Do you want Gay Marriage, yes or no?

The parties even try and boil down complex issues int simple gut reaction yes and noes, just like gay marriage, abortion, gun rights, immigration... this way a heavy pro-gay district will always vote the democrate in no matter how incompetent or corrupt they are. This is how we get Ted Kennedys and Nancy Pelosies for 30 years straight despite their stupidity and corruption.


Term limits sound great - except the very people it will put in the street are the ones you have to persuade to vote for it... good luck.

[thrax]

I think we are missing the bigger picture of what RP was really saying when he talks about bank reform. I am American and have done a fair amount of research on this.

I have strong feelings about the banking systems in our country. You go so far as to blame the American people for the insolvency of our major banks in 08. This was allowed to happen through the greed of these large banks and their predatory lending tactics enacted on the American people. Naive people, but normal Americans just the same. American's were very enthusiastically sold a dream. The banks would of made billions in interest and still own the collateral through the debtors default. These are powerful and dangerous financial tactics used to make untold wealth. The only reason it didn't work it because everyone seemed to go broke and default at the same time. Then when the markets got wind of the tactics used against the general public everyone saw it for what it was. A elaborate scheme. The banks actually wanted the debtors to default, this way the get the interest and the collateral. It's was a absolutely brilliant, and nefarious scam. And it almost worked.

The people who applied for the loans should not have received them period bottom line. The banks saw a opportunity to make billions on interest alone on the back of underemployed and under-saved Americans and gave them loans they shouldn't have. The ultimate responsibility of the insolvency lies with the banks alone. They should have failed, and the bailout was a huge mistake. If only for the reason the it left the very people the brought the global economic platform crumbling down in less then a decade, still in charge. And let me remind this was just one of the incompetent and predatory tactics used by these banks to generate extreme wealth on the backs of other companies and Americans.

Now RP has some ideas that were not so foreign to Americans 200 years ago when we signed the Declaration of Independence, and ratified our Constitution. That's the free market and trade will rule the financial markets and set interest, and that the government will regulate and distribute currency, not some Ultimate bank.

RP wants to go so far as to abolish the FED completely. And for this reason alone he should have every Americans vote who don't have ties with a large financial institution. Fact is, fiat currency is the way of world as i believe it should be. But, we do not have to borrow it a base interest. The government can mint and distribute currency independently. This alone would save John Q tax payer thousands of dollars in useless income tax that goes to pay down the debt.

The second reason why anyone with any worry of Americas future should vote for RP is that he wants to overturn the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act that was heralded as the greatest way to protect us from scary terrorists, is actually the greatest act of terrorism ever enacted on the American people in and of itself. It completely and utterly undermines every single one of yours and mine personal liberties and rights that our forefathers deemed unalienable.

These 2 reasons alone are enough for me to put up with any of his pro-life bullshit, or any other thing that he may be to conservative on. These 2 things are of the most dire importance to the American people right now at this present day in history.

Vote RP and let him get the these 2 things accomplished. After that go ahead and vote for any big business, green treehugger, war monger moron, tax loving hippy you want. Everything else is arbitrary until these 2 things get accomplished.

well said.

[duffman1278]

My vote is for Ron Paul, no doubt about it. The man is the only candidate that isn't full of BS and says things for how they are. He has a plan, he knows what he needs to do and where to get the resources and he doesn't let anyone get in his way and is sick and tired of the big corporation and government working together.

I agree with rc1honda, these banks have completely abused their powers and are getting worst. Sad part is they arn't even done yet. And as of now they write our laws and control our politicians. They've hurt millions of people and nothings happened to them.

I'm pissed that FOX actually took down their poll on "who do you think won the republican debate" when Ron Paul won by a landslide.

[thrax]

If you are not American should you even be discussing this? I mean seriously you speak from pretty simplistic views above. All of the banks that were bailed out not only paid back their bailout money but also paid interest on it as well. In fact the America did well on the bailout.
Its not so simple to just say lets put in prison all the executives from these banks.
Not all are guilty of wrongdoing and until you have facts which you do not, you know not of what speak of.

New laws have been enacted and its not as easy as it was. Trying to blame people at this stage of the situation does not help the economy. In fact the administration just did that and it put fear in the American consumer thereby stalling the growth we were starting to have.
Its funny that the FHA decided to sue the banks at this stage of the situation as well because they run Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae two of the biggest contributors to the whole mortgage mess. Two contributors that have not paid the U.S. back for their own financial mess up.

There is no one entity that was responsible for this in the end either. Everyone participated. Did you take advantage of easy credit? If so you participated. Did you take advantage of getting a home loan with no down payment or stated income? If so you participated.
Fact is everyone got drunk on cheap and easy credit and in turn got greedy. Did you take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage for a new car or a vacation? If so that was greddy. Did you sign a the dotted line on a loan knowing you would not be able to afford it over time but counting on the value of the house going up to make you money and then refinance or flip it? If so that was greedy.

The list goes on and on and no one I repeat no one is immune.
We all participated and its time we all accept responsibility and stop pointing fingers and get on with correcting things.

Oh and Ron Paul quite possibly would do a better job at that. Oh and cracking down on lobbyists would be good, except its and entrenched system that neither party wants to get rid of.

P.S. I was a registered Democrat, I no longer agree with any of the current parties. The Democrats are to far to the left and the current Republican party is to far to the right. Neither side is willing to cooperate they just want to lay blame like you do and you are not even a citizen.

harsh realities but truth.

What you do in America affects other parts of the world, especially when they are all linked. That's why non-Americans are interested. Most of what Goldman Sachs did is a form of fraud and they new it was. Blaming the victims is something American media is doing, now that is simplistic in the cases of fraud. The mortgages fraud is just one of many things these guys were up to. They also do the accounting for foreign governments. Of course they won't get prosecuted. Many of the people in Obama's and Bush's admin were Goldman Sach Alumni.
Between RP and Obama, RP will do something about the FED he's been talking about it for years.

[axiomatik]

Nice to see some educated posts concerning the housing bubble, and not the usual "Barney Frank made banks give loans to poor people" BS.


The Giant Pool of Money | This American Life (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/355/the-giant-pool-of-money)

This is the best explanation I've ever heard on the housing bubble. It's definitely worth listening to if you have the time. But this is the basics:

US Treasuries have been the gold standard when it comes to safe investments going back for decades. However, for most of the 2000's, the Fed's interest rates have been very low. So investors from all across the globe started looking for other safe investments that gave better returns. US Mortgages were also a very safe investment, and so globabl investors started investing in the commoditized mortgages from US banks.

However, before long, demand outstripped supply. Banks didn't have enough mortgages to sell. Too many investors wanted to buy in. So banks started lowering the requirements for getting a mortgage. Local loan officers searched for customers. They got a bonus for originating a loan, and then the local banks sold it to the big banks who sold it to investors. As more and more investors got into the game, banks got more and more desperate for mortgages, and kept lowering the requirements.

For a while, everything was going fine. People were signing up for mortgages that they couldn't really afford, but with the bubble raising home values, it didn't matter for a while. The house was worth hundreds of thousands more just a year later, value that you could tap into to help pay your bills. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, but because the value kept going up, they weren't getting delinquent. It was a precarious situation, but it was self-sustaining for a while. However, when gas prices rose and cut into people's budgets, and foreclosures started to rise. Pretty soon the bad news popped the bubble and home prices started falling.

It was a system-wide failure, with blame falling on millions of people. People who bought homes they couldn't really afford. Loan officers that wrote those loans. Some loan officers falsified the applications to get them approved. Local banks didn't care, because they just packaged up the loans and sold them to bigger banks. Big banks were watching for foreclosures, but while home values rose, it wasn't a problem, they were making money right now selling them to investors.

[duffman1278]

Europe is further along.

The problem is that its overwhelming. What can you, WakeBHR personally do that will cause any change or improvement?

The answer? Nothing.

To actually see a drastic shift in politics you need party reform or some form of term limits.

Party reform is not going to happen. The Tea Party tried to do this. Whether your agree with their views or not is irrelevant. They did not see either party offering the solutions they wanted and tried to unit to get their idea of "change" into effect. Both partys and the media shit all over them to ensure the status quo remained the same.

With no viable third party, its a "yes/no" vote every time. Do you want Obamacare - yes or no? Do you want to go to war in Libia, yes or no? Do you want Gay Marriage, yes or no?

The parties even try and boil down complex issues int simple gut reaction yes and noes, just like gay marriage, abortion, gun rights, immigration... this way a heavy pro-gay district will always vote the democrate in no matter how incompetent or corrupt they are. This is how we get Ted Kennedys and Nancy Pelosies for 30 years straight despite their stupidity and corruption.


Term limits sound great - except the very people it will put in the street are the ones you have to persuade to vote for it... good luck.

How can you just sit there and say there is nothing you can do about it? That mentality is exactly what these big bankers want you to think. But I do agree with you that the media is trying ever so hard to keep the status quo but until a lot of people stand up and realize this crap needs to end now will they be forced to pay attention.

There's protest in NY, by wall street going on already for the past 8 days and none of the big media corporations here in the US have put much attention on it. The only ones actually covering the story are independent news channels and out of the country stations.

These people protesting are fighting for change and still people say "what a bunch of hippies they won't get anywhere" or "they're wasting their time" etc. We can and should be doing something, not just letting these crooks get away with this crap. So far it seems like Ron Paul is the only politician with sense and actually supports the people.

[RidgeRoamin]

Obamas entire presidential campaign has been a joke so far. For the people who truly felt he was going to initiate change, you're all idiots, he's merely dismantled the nations economy. The hole he has dug is absurd and I honestly feel sorry for whoever wins the next election. But hell, I wouldn't be surprised if all the idiots re-elect Obama, it would just show how moronic our country is becoming.

RP all the way.

[illvialuver]

ronpaul, i dont care if it doesnt look like he will win, the point is to vote who YOU want to be president, NOT who do you think will win.

[imotion s14]

Nice to see some educated posts concerning the housing bubble, and not the usual "Barney Frank made banks give loans to poor people" BS.


The Giant Pool of Money | This American Life (http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/355/the-giant-pool-of-money)

This is the best explanation I've ever heard on the housing bubble. It's definitely worth listening to if you have the time. But this is the basics:

US Treasuries have been the gold standard when it comes to safe investments going back for decades. However, for most of the 2000's, the Fed's interest rates have been very low. So investors from all across the globe started looking for other safe investments that gave better returns. US Mortgages were also a very safe investment, and so globabl investors started investing in the commoditized mortgages from US banks.

However, before long, demand outstripped supply. Banks didn't have enough mortgages to sell. Too many investors wanted to buy in. So banks started lowering the requirements for getting a mortgage. Local loan officers searched for customers. They got a bonus for originating a loan, and then the local banks sold it to the big banks who sold it to investors. As more and more investors got into the game, banks got more and more desperate for mortgages, and kept lowering the requirements.

For a while, everything was going fine. People were signing up for mortgages that they couldn't really afford, but with the bubble raising home values, it didn't matter for a while. The house was worth hundreds of thousands more just a year later, value that you could tap into to help pay your bills. People were buying houses they couldn't afford, but because the value kept going up, they weren't getting delinquent. It was a precarious situation, but it was self-sustaining for a while. However, when gas prices rose and cut into people's budgets, and foreclosures started to rise. Pretty soon the bad news popped the bubble and home prices started falling.

It was a system-wide failure, with blame falling on millions of people. People who bought homes they couldn't really afford. Loan officers that wrote those loans. Some loan officers falsified the applications to get them approved. Local banks didn't care, because they just packaged up the loans and sold them to bigger banks. Big banks were watching for foreclosures, but while home values rose, it wasn't a problem, they were making money right now selling them to investors.

I like how they talk about Greenspan's interest rate drop and completely fail to factor in it's relevance to pumping up the housing bubble. Hell they don't even mention WHY it happened.

Here's a better explanation of WHY it was going to crash.. before it crashed.

Peter Schiff Mortgage Bankers Speech Nov/13/06 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k)

and it wasn't because of gas prices.. lol

[Jtuned_andy]

the only reason i registered to vote, and vote as republican....is to vote for Ron Paul

[axiomatik]

I like how they talk about Greenspan's interest rate drop and completely fail to factor in it's relevance to pumping up the housing bubble. Hell they don't even mention WHY it happened.

Here's a better explanation of WHY it was going to crash.. before it crashed.

Peter Schiff Mortgage Bankers Speech Nov/13/06 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k)

and it wasn't because of gas prices.. lol

Gas prices where the "straw that broke the camel's back", so-to-speak. Things were humming along under the grand delusion until gas prices raised the specter of an economic slowdown. Once people started worrying about the economy, it snowballed from there. On top of that, high gas prices cut into people's budgets. And those that were teetering on the edge, barely getting by with their house they couldn't really afford, were pushed over the edge when gas prices took a couple hundred dollars out of their monthly budget.

That's the problem with recessions, they are largely the product of a psychological shift among the population. The media starts talking about a potential recession. People hear the news and decide to be a little more cautious with their money. They buy fewer things. Companies see a drop in demand, and start cutting back a little, and the cycle reinforces itself.

[kingkilburn]

And that is why I tell people to completely ignore the stock market unless they actually own stock.

[imotion s14]

Gas prices where the "straw that broke the camel's back", so-to-speak. Things were humming along under the grand delusion until gas prices raised the specter of an economic slowdown. Once people started worrying about the economy, it snowballed from there. On top of that, high gas prices cut into people's budgets. And those that were teetering on the edge, barely getting by with their house they couldn't really afford, were pushed over the edge when gas prices took a couple hundred dollars out of their monthly budget.

What broke the camel's back was people who got ARM loans and got caught at the top as their ARMs reset and the interest rates increase and their mortgage payments ballooned. When their mortgage consumes nearly 50% of their income at a low rate. What happens when the rates increases?

Your theory doesn't even fit the time line. Home prices had hit the top and started to decline as foreclosures had an upward swing in early Q1 2007. Oil had a sharp drop in Q1 2007 and didn't pick up until late 2007 to Q3 2008. Well after the wave of record foreclosures started earlier that year.

That's the problem with recessions, they are largely the product of a psychological shift among the population. The media starts talking about a potential recession. People hear the news and decide to be a little more cautious with their money. They buy fewer things. Companies see a drop in demand, and start cutting back a little, and the cycle reinforces itself.

So what's your solution? Pump people up with happy pills?

Our trade deficits, that's a psychological problem.

Our negative savings rate? Psychological.

Disintegration of our industrial capacity?

Capital flight off American shores. Obviously psychological.

There is absolutely no technical reasons for a recession. Booms are sustainable if only everyone was happy. :keke:

The imaginary value of our homes might have been psychological. But the debt we accumulated against the imaginary value of our homes to buy all stuff we have is as real as the flat screen TVs hanging over the fireplace of some Poor Schmuck's McMansion.

[Kingbaby]

McCain....

[redline racer510]

At this point I would much rather vote for Elmo(yes the sesame street character) rather than voting for any of the other presidential candidates.

[illvialuver]

I like how everyone who is against RP is for big bailouts, not being accountable for your actions, and against sound money.

Ron Paul has it right on so many counts, that unless your biased by some sort of belief or idioligy other than common sense, than you would vote for him.

[kingkilburn]

And to think the republicans pushed him out of the last election for McCain of all people.

[axiomatik]

I like how everyone who is against RP is for big bailouts, not being accountable for your actions, and against sound money.

Ron Paul has it right on so many counts, that unless your biased by some sort of belief or idioligy other than common sense, than you would vote for him.

That's a finely nuanced argument you have there.

[word sux]

ron paul will never win because the entire system is against him and the electoral vote is there as a backup just incase..

[KA24DESOneThree]

The vote is going to be between a douche bag and a turd sandwich (thanks, South Park). Neither will do anything to stop the destruction of this country. I don't care if RP wins; he'll be powerless and the rest of the world will consider us backwoods bumpkins for actually giving a shit about libertarian ideals.

I've come to grips with it: we the people are becoming more and more powerless against a stronger and stronger government. The hilarious thing is that it's ok with us; we've got too many mouths to feed and too many bills to pay to give a shit. As long as most of us have jobs and the rest have welfare, we're all too preoccupied in our own lives to consider for one moment that we're ensuring the enslavement of our future selves.

Meanwhile, I'll be lying and dodging to remain free.

[RJF]

Ron Paul not only a kook on national defense, but also a racist:

“Order was only restored in LA when it came time for the blacks to collect their welfare checks. The ‘poor’ lined up at the Post Office to get their handouts (since there were no deliveries) — and then complained about slow service.” - June 1992

[kingkilburn]

1. I fail to see the racism.

2. Even if he was his libertarianism would prevent him form forcing his views on others.

[RJF]

http://patdollard.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/122807-ron_paul_stormfront.jpg
Ron Paul hanging out, smiling with white supremacist Stormfront.org founder Don Black

[RJF]

“Incredibly Honest” Former Staffer Reveals Ron Paul “Hates Israel”

The Five: “Incredibly Honest” Former Staffer Reveals Ron Paul “Hates Israel” at Pat Dollard (http://patdollard.com/2011/12/the-five-incredibly-honest-former-staffer-reveals-ron-paul-hates-israel/)

[deolio]

the only reason ron paul has a chance is because of his "different" ideas and claim that he will change the system.

i'm pretty sure obama has proven over the last few years that such a thing isn't possible.

might as well continue making the rest of the world think that america is a tolerant place for four more years until we vote in another old white guy.

[kingkilburn]

How has RP voted and what bills has he authored or cosigned? You can't act like he is rank and file unless you are in complete denial or blind.

The picture doesn't prove anything other than they were in the same place at the same time.

Why shouldn't he hate Israel? Do you have a any idea how much of our money and political clout is funneled to that country? Backing Israel is one of the most dangerous things we do as a nation. Also the idea that our government had something to do with 9/11 is generally considered the more prevalent theory in America.


EDIT
The kicker for that video is the notion that Gingrich is the best candidate.

[ronmcdon]

The picture doesn't prove anything other than they were in the same place at the same time.

EDIT
The kicker for that video is the notion that Gingrich is the best candidate

Even if RP posed with the dude and smiled it doesn't prove anything imo.
It's not like the said white supremacist is some famous media figure that everyone knows about.
Dude probably came up to RP to ask for a photo, autograph & RP complied.

[anthonyr sil8ty]

I know one thing, I wont vote for obama's bitch ass.

[duffman1278]

Even if RP posed with the dude and smiled it doesn't prove anything imo.
It's not like the said white supremacist is some famous media figure that everyone knows about.
Dude probably came up to RP to ask for a photo, autograph & RP complied.

Exactly what I was thinking. He figured this must be just another supporter no harm in taking a picture. It's more than likely that not many people will see that picture and identify who the dude really is.

[imotion s14]

Who cares about Israel? I'm not fucking Israeli. So why the fuck should any American give two-shits about Israel's interest?

They're big boys and more than capable of taking care of their potential enemies in the region.

I remember a Israeli spy ring was busted and the story got buried due to 9/11.

I remember when they stole nuclear secrets from the US and sold it to the USSR.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

[STEVES14]

Ron paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[s13 @ fullboost]

America is controlled by Israel anyways I would vote for RP

[upsdude]

ugh if these are my 2 choices i'd rather not vote :P

[kingkilburn]

If you don't vote Newt could win. If that happens every one but him and his accountant loses.

[GSXRJJordan]

Wrote in Ron Paul in 2008.

Would def vote for him in the 2012 general. As a small biz owner, I can't see anyone else having my best interests in mind.

[kingkilburn]

Wrote in Ron Paul in 2008.

. . . I can't see anyone else having my best interests in mind.

Hear hear.

[ronmcdon]

i'm going to vote for RP thanks to RJF.
(whatever RJF says, just do the opposite, lol)

honestly I'm not too crazy about any of the rep candidates.
RP will always be RP, not a fan but prob the most reasonable in the group.
Obama will most likely take it in '12 imo.

[kingkilburn]

RP has an answer for everything Obama has done wrong and it wont be smoke and mirrors either.

[Jonathong]

Ron Paul Ftw!

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

[ronmcdon]

realistically, who do you guys see taking the rep primaries at this point?
(not saying who you'd pick, just who has the most chance of winning)

whomever that is, do you prefer that person over Obama?

[kingkilburn]

Every choice but ron paul is varying degrees of sameness with Newt being the farthest from the rest.

Romney is spending a shit ton of money to keep his spot at second but continues to open his mouth and sound just as stupid as Perry and Bachman.


If young people actually go out and vote this year it's RP all the way.

[sr20sean]

no RP! He approves on over turning civil rights laws!

i lol'd at this. its from the beginning of the thread i know but i find it funny since obama is agreeing to sign the national defense authorization act.

[kingkilburn]

I'd love to see the source for him doing that. lol

[bardabe]

Wrote in Ron Paul in 2008.

Would def vote for him in the 2012 general. As a small biz owner, I can't see anyone else having my best interests in mind.

This


msglngth

[anthonyr sil8ty]

i lol'd at this. its from the beginning of the thread i know but i find it funny since obama is agreeing to sign the national defense authorization act.


lol, obama actually doing something he said he will do?

[K_style]

Shouldn't we add Poll to this thread ?

I'd say RP..

[s13 @ fullboost]

Poll ftw! !!!

[bb4_96]

Undecided. So dissapointed with presidents of my lifetime. Not sure it's worth voting between a turd and a giant douche. Either one will face the same problems with actually getting anything done, and recieve all the blame.

read this and it's all i foresee for the presidency in the near future
California and Bust | Business | Vanity Fair (http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111)

[imotion s14]

(http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323&Itemid=60)Government Mortgage Schemes Distort the Housing Market (http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323&Itemid=60)

Government Mortgage Schemes Distort the Housing Market
Congressman Ron Paul U.S. House of Representatives July 16, 2002

Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act. This legislation restores a free market in housing by repealing special privileges for housing-related government sponsored enterprises (GSEs). These entities are the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie), the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie), and the National Home Loan Bank Board (HLBB). According to the Congressional Budget Office, the housing-related GSEs received $13.6 billion worth of indirect federal subsidies in fiscal year 2000 alone.

One of the major government privileges granted these GSEs is a line of credit to the United States Treasury. According to some estimates, the line of credit may be worth over $2 billion. This explicit promise by the Treasury to bail out these GSEs in times of economic difficulty helps them attract investors who are willing to settle for lower yields than they would demand in the absence of the subsidy. Thus, the line of credit distorts the allocation of capital. More importantly, the line of credit is a promise on behalf of the government to engage in a massive unconstitutional and immoral income transfer from working Americans to holders of GSE debt.
The Free Housing Market Enhancement Act also repeals the explicit grant of legal authority given to the Federal Reserve to purchase the debt of housing-related GSEs. GSEs are the only institutions besides the United States Treasury granted explicit statutory authority to monetize their debt through the Federal Reserve. This provision gives the GSEs a source of liquidity unavailable to their competitors.

Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges of Fannie, Freddie, and HLBB have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

However, despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policies of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.

Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts.

No less an authority than Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has expressed concern that government subsidies provided to the GSEs make investors underestimate the risk of investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for Congress to act to remove taxpayer support from the housing GSEs before the bubble bursts and taxpayers are once again forced to bail out investors misled by foolish government interference in the market. I therefore hope my colleagues will stand up for American taxpayers and investors by cosponsoring the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act.

The only logical choice is Ron Paul.

[freeagent3117]

RP all the way!
Why does everybody think he doesnt have a chance?

Is SOOOO frustrating hearing everybody say this. If you all went and voted for him he would have a chance. 76% of people with political opinions dont vote. Its sad

:eek3:

[rb20240sx]

RP ftw it's good to see the media actually acknowledge him now days. And glad to see so many people saying there voting for him. Also what kind of dumbass would vote the obama back in office?

[Michaelwinne]

RP all the way!
Why does everybody think he doesnt have a chance?

Is SOOOO frustrating hearing everybody say this. If you all went and voted for him he would have a chance. 76% of people with political opinions dont vote. Its sad

:eek3:

Ever asked certain ppl why they voted for Obama? Oh by the way we're in the military we're not allowed to have opinions..:hide:

[kingkilburn]

I hate that. Questioning the domestic decisions the PRESIDENT has made is not questioning the leadership of the COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

[sileight_04]

Ron Paul. While i agree with almost all of his plans, especially as a small business owner, I do disagree with his plan to cut medicare and Social Security but he is the overall proper vote for me.

No candidate will ever be perfect on all topics, they may say all of the right things but there is no way to make it all happen..... too many people bought into this regarding Obama, now look where we are.

[kingkilburn]

He can want to cut them all day and all night but that is a matter for congress no the president.

[BC S14]

NO NO NO! I can't believe all of you people. Last time I posted on here about an election all you retards would'nt shut up about super cool badass obama and obama is my homeboy and FLAMED the sh!t out of me for trying to convince all of you other wise. I swear it was 3-5 pages of almost everyone on here swingin from obamas nuts. NOW!,, you all want to use your brain? I seriously can't believe this is happening. It makes me sick to my stomache to think people who voted for obama are able to vote at all. I think I deserve a big fvcking sorry from each retard on here. People talked soo much sh!t on me, now you want to vote for the canadate I suggested IN 2008? Are you serious? Heres something I promised the last time I posted in a political thread on here. I FVCKING TOLD YOU SO...YOU [email protected] Enjoy.:madfawk:
Man it feels good to be right, when the majority sheeple are so damn wrong.

[Grenade180sx]

heres the problem with all politicians.

The Right is Wrong and the left is stupid.

so either way you vote its not gonna fix anything.

but Ron paul for me.

I love my guns way to much.

[godrifttoday]

Ron Paul! He knows the issues... Less government ! How he would resolve them are eeeehhh but he knows what's up... Have any of u seen the you tube video of him closing a reporter

[ralphandthequeen]

neither.. put Chuck Norris in office.. bitches love Chuck.

[kingkilburn]

Hey, I registered republican so I could vote for RP in the primary.

[Gnnr]

I'm not a Ron Paul supporter per se, but I will say I can see how the media hates him and is portraying an unfair image. Too bad, I think he would have made it more interesting had he won Iowa.

[rb20240sx]

Ya watching the Iowa Caucasus. Fox news sucks at speaking the truth, just their twisted spin on it. Registered today myself.

[S-Nation S13]

Don't give a fuck ..just fixed this damn country..put the green back in my pocket..

[codyace]

The only thing, is that I hope Ron Paul isn't a modern day Ross Perot. I don't Mind RP's opinion, and have re considered many of my previous opinions on him, but there is no doubt that unless he wins, that he could draw the votes from the 'lesser' of the major 2 candidates, and potentially cause the 'most evil' to win.

[TheWolf]

The only thing, is that I hope Ron Paul isn't a modern day Ross Perot. I don't Mind RP's opinion, and have re considered many of my previous opinions on him, but there is no doubt that unless he wins, that he could draw the votes from the 'lesser' of the major 2 candidates, and potentially cause the 'most evil' to win.

There are two main things that must be addressed.

entitlements

and borrowing

If ron paul doesn't win, neither of those items will be addressed for another 4 years.. neither side wants to say "no" to their own group.. so if obama wins again.. who cares.. it'll just quicken the showdown between the haves and the have nots.. come get your "economic justice" at 200 yards... piss on them..

[20 til 3]

we just need a support for ron paul thread on here


but btw, i'm sure everyone saw CNN cutting off the military's support for ron paul... well dr. paul brought the young man on stage to redeem his speech and this is now what cnn has to say about the military vet.

Army soldier rallying for Paul violated military ban on political activity – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/04/army-soldier-rallying-for-paul-violated-military-ban-on-political-activity/)

shiots getting ridiculous... i shouldn't be stressing about who's getting elected, but i feel that if dr. paul isn't elected... life is basically over for everyone who isn't part of the game

[jvsc91talon]

RJF claiming that Ron Paul is a racist and hates Israel is the 2 most ignorant things said in this thread and possibly on this forum.

1. Libertarians are incapable of being racist.
2. Ron Paul took a BLACK man and his white wife in his care as a physician to deliver
their baby when no other doctor would. The baby was stillborn and because Ron Paul
felt bad for the couple Ron Paul took care of the bill.
3. Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate who brings up the issue that the war on drugs, the courts, and the death penalty are all biased towards minorities. Even says he will pardon all non violent drug offenders.

Now on Israel...
1. Anyone remember back in 1981 when Israel bombed an Iraq nuclear plant and everyone in congress, the U.N. and the Reagan administration disapproved it? Guess who stood up for Israel stating they have every right to defend themselves, thats right Ron Paul.
2. Ron Paul states that Israel has become too dependent on us and we should let them take care of themselves. Seems kinda Anti Israel right??? Well maybe we should listen to the Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu himself who stated and i quote " You (America) dont need to be nation building in Israel, were already built. You dont need to export democracy to Israel, we already got it. And you dont need to send American troops to Israel, WE DEFEND OURSELVES!!!"

[kingkilburn]

RJF claiming that Ron Paul is a racist and hates Israel is the 2 most ignorant things said in this thread and possibly on this forum.

THANK YOU

It's as if no one has ever payed attention to our nations recent history. They all just go off what the nightly news says.

[bb4_96]

we just need a support for ron paul thread on here

but btw, i'm sure everyone saw CNN cutting off the military's support for ron paul... well dr. paul brought the young man on stage to redeem his speech and this is now what cnn has to say about the military vet.

Army soldier rallying for Paul violated military ban on political activity – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/04/army-soldier-rallying-for-paul-violated-military-ban-on-political-activity/)

shiots getting ridiculous... i shouldn't be stressing about who's getting elected, but i feel that if dr. paul isn't elected... life is basically over for everyone who isn't part of the game

If he had done it as a civilian he'd be fine. Everybody knows the score when they pick up that rifle. Don't know how this came as such a surprise.

[bb4_96]

I agree with most of Ron Paul's points.

I don't agree with his stand on health care reform. As a doctor he would want to take the liability off the docotor and put it back on the individual. I don't think malpractice as it stands is right but I don't want it the other way either.

I don't agree with his stand on education reform either. Tax credits for kids to go to any school is bullshit. I pay for my kids to go to private school to get them away from public school riff raff, the tax credits for kids to go to any school would undermind the whole concept of private school. Thats what i interpretted anyway.

I just like his whole feel. Do whatever the fuck you want so long as you aren't infringing on others civil liberties.

love with his immigration reform

Hate his stand on foreign policy. Nobody is gonna play fair when it comes to trade and our mindless self indulgence is gonna bury this country if it hasn't already.

[bb4_96]

Ever asked certain ppl why they voted for Obama? Oh by the way we're in the military we're not allowed to have opinions..:hide:

Little tired of the Obama voter bashing. Hindsight is a bitch. If he had turned things around all the non Obama voters would be the stupid-asses. Point is nobody knows how it'll turn out, all we can do is speculate. Obama voters were so hungry for change, that is why.

I hate that. Questioning the domestic decisions the PRESIDENT has made is not questioning the leadership of the COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

Military can voice their opinion so long as they don't make the association. The whole idea is to prevent it looking like the military as a whole backs a candidate. Like that jackass did the other night. Had he been in civilian clothes he'd have more than likely been fine.

That and it's a conflict of interest between your views and those of the commander in cheif. How can you follow someone's leadership wholeheartedly when you don't support his viewpoint in lieu of anothers.

[Grenade180sx]

no matter who you vote for, these politcians once voted into office ALWAYS seem to go assbackward and do NOTHING they say they will do, if voted for.. Politicans only do what is in there best interest $$ wise and to keep a seat.

look at Obama, Just before reelection time and now"all the troops are coming home" and we killed osama bin laden.

hes a "make the people feel good kinda guy"

and im sick of these dudes always deciding to change there minds if money is thrown at them. He AND CONGRESS are damn criminals

[kingkilburn]

How can you follow someone's leadership wholeheartedly when you don't support his viewpoint in lieu of anothers.

Simple. The Office of President and Commander in Chief are two separate offices held by one man. In many other countries the leader of the executive branch is not the Commander in Chief.

You can question Obama not pushing hard enough on his stimulus plan while not questioning whether or not he should step in on the indefinite curfew for soldiers in Korea.

[bb4_96]

Simple. The Office of President and Commander in Chief are two separate offices held by one man. In many other countries the leader of the executive branch is not the Commander in Chief.

You can question Obama not pushing hard enough on his stimulus plan while not questioning whether or not he should step in on the indefinite curfew for soldiers in Korea.

Of course you can. But that's not the ideology behind the legislation.

[EDacIouSX]

I'm not too up on RP but I know I really dislike Obama. Guy plays more golf than bush did in his 8 years and spends more than bush did in his entire term, except he did it in under 2-3 years. Not to mention he is always dissin America along with his ugly wife.

HEY IRANZ, CAN WE HAS OUR UAV BACK PWEASE? lol what an idiot.

[kingkilburn]

Blindly following leadership is about as unAmerican as it gets. No legislation is going to change that.

[Renzin]

So when you say "Ron Paul or Obama", what you mean is "Mitt Romney or Obama", right?

Let's all stop pretending that Ron Paul has a chance in hell on winning the primary. Because you know it's not going to happen.

So, Obama.

If there were some miraculous event that took place and Ron Paul made it, then Ron Paul.

[GSXRJJordan]

So when you say "Ron Paul or Obama", what you mean is "Mitt Romney or Obama", right?

Let's all stop pretending that Ron Paul has a chance in hell on winning the primary. Because you know it's not going to happen.

So, Obama.

If there were some miraculous event that took place and Ron Paul made it, then Ron Paul.

That's OK, myself and a few hundred thousand others were faced with a similar, but slightly more palatable decision in 2008 (while you were in high school) with McCain vs Obama, and wrote in Ron Paul.

I'll do it again.

This thread is very telling, because although the "majority" out "there" tend to think Ron Paul is unelectable, no one really knows what would happen in a General against Obama. I tend to think he'd have at least as good a shot as Romney against Obama ~ so in my (hopeful) opinion, if he can continue to gain momentum against Romney he has a real shot of getting on the General ballot...

... and that's a victory for small government folks everywhere :)

[kingkilburn]

I'd rather have Obama again if it came down to Romney v Obama. His Bush era status quo bs is better than the crap the republicans have been spewing since his inauguration.



The only reason for RP not to win the primaries is peoples' assumption that he can't win. Don't vote based on the candidate's likelihood of winning, vote based on whether or not you want them to hold that office.

[ineedone]

That's OK, myself and a few hundred thousand others were faced with a similar, but slightly more palatable decision in 2008 (while you were in high school) with McCain vs Obama, and wrote in Ron Paul.

I'll do it again.

This thread is very telling, because although the "majority" out "there" tend to think Ron Paul is unelectable, no one really knows what would happen in a General against Obama. I tend to think he'd have at least as good a shot as Romney against Obama ~ so in my (hopeful) opinion, if he can continue to gain momentum against Romney he has a real shot of getting on the General ballot...

... and that's a victory for small government folks everywhere :)

RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - General Election: Paul vs. Obama (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_paul_vs_obama-1750.html)

Paul gets dominated. Sure some of his views seem really awesome... but in totality the dude is a phony. Everyone in Washington knows it, and anyone who is a wonky politico knows it. The only reason he is running for president this time around is so that he can set up his son Rand to have a nice career in politics. I can almost guarantee he does not run as an independent, which he would already be doing instead of wasting money running in the republican primary. For a guy who hates the federal government and government spending, he sure does bring home some hefty government money. Sure he votes against it, but only because his pork projects get attached to bills that are all but certain to pass. Seriously, Ron Paul is just as big of a liar/hypocrite as any other politician.

[GSXRJJordan]

Seriously, Ron Paul is just as big of a liar/hypocrite as any other politician.

The point - you're missing it. You disappoint me.

He's a dissenting voice in a chorus of non-conservative republicans, who tend to change their stance on important as well as trivial issues regularly.


You're right that he won't run as an independent, and you're right that his campaign is not just about winning in 2012. Even if he doesn't make the general, the fact that he's a solid second is amazing. No one would have imagined he'd resonate like this 4 years ago... except those of us who wrote him in :)

[kingkilburn]

Phony? Proof or stfu.

His voting record is consistent throughout his entire political career and his opinions on the economy have always been on point.

[bb4_96]

Phony? Proof or stfu.

His voting record is consistent throughout his entire political career and his opinions on the economy have always been on point.

Is his economic opinions being on point your opinion or can you substantiate that? I don't know anything about his thoughts on the economy.

[Kingbaby]

*good healthy discussion*

[ineedone]

Phony? Proof or stfu.

His voting record is consistent throughout his entire political career and his opinions on the economy have always been on point.

Here, this is recent. His super fun newsletters "Old News"? "Rehashed for Over a Decade"? (http://reason.com/blog/2008/01/11/old-news-rehashed-for-over-a-d)

Ron Paul clearly knew about the newsletters. He clearly justified the content. Ron Paul profited off of this racist content.

And on the Earmark double talk he does Ron Paul on 'Meet the Press' - NYTimes.com (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/ron-paul-on-meet-the-press/)

and here Ron Paul defends seeking funds for Texas district - Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/default/article/Ron-Paul-defends-seeking-funds-for-Texas-district-1534438.php)

Do you want more proof?

[ineedone]

The point - you're missing it. You disappoint me.

He's a dissenting voice in a chorus of non-conservative republicans, who tend to change their stance on important as well as trivial issues regularly.


You're right that he won't run as an independent, and you're right that his campaign is not just about winning in 2012. Even if he doesn't make the general, the fact that he's a solid second is amazing. No one would have imagined he'd resonate like this 4 years ago... except those of us who wrote him in :)

I think you are being hoodwinked. The guy could care less about what he actually says. What he is worried about is his money. He figured out a formula that would keep him in the Congress and allow him to raise lots of money by saying some ridiculous things or making impossible promises to members of the military.

If his campaign is not about winning the primary then what is it about? Being a solid second, which is highly doubtful, does not say much when you look at who he is running against. What is he resonating? It has been the same story for him for the last 20 some odd years, it is always the same thing. Young people get excited because he says some kinda true kinda crazy populous things. Than they find out he is just a fake and move on.

One of his number one beliefs was on term limits for members of congress... well, that is except for himself. I could keep going but it is easier to just sit back and watch it all happen. Be ready to feel let down real soon.

[Renzin]

That's OK, myself and a few hundred thousand others were faced with a similar, but slightly more palatable decision in 2008 (while you were in high school) with McCain vs Obama, and wrote in Ron Paul.

I'll do it again.



And now you actually think he has a chance to win the primary?

Mitt Romney, despite being a total fucking two-faced douchecanoe is going to win it.

Ron Paul will fade away shortly after.

And Obama is going to beat Romney in the election.

And lets be honest, Clinton is probably going to win after that.

And then maybe a Republican when people are sick of the lack of actual "change".

And then it starts again.

By this time, we will probably have been finished or be in war with Iran and some other random ME country. More NDAA/Patriot act things will have been signed, economy will still be shit, etc.

Etc, etc.


There's your forecast for the next 8 years :[

[rb20240sx]

And I'm back to believing a good percent of people are just plain dumb.. :loco:
RP FTW.

[kingkilburn]

Is his economic opinions being on point your opinion or can you substantiate that? I don't know anything about his thoughts on the economy.

He called the crash of the .com bubble and said it would lead to a housing bubble if not taken car of. How's that for a start?

[bb4_96]

He called the crash of the .com bubble and said it would lead to a housing bubble if not taken car of. How's that for a start?

Nice. Was not aware of any of that.

[mantas]

I rock a Ron Paul sticker on my 240. I've gotten some dirty looks from Obama lovers, I've even been cut off by a prius. I'll stick by Ron Paul as I did last time because he is the only candidate that seems to give two shits about this country. Either way since the Electoral College decides the outcome of our election, there is no way Ron will win. So let's enjoy another 4.5 years of unemployment and inflation.

[axiomatik]

I rock a Ron Paul sticker on my 240. I've gotten some dirty looks from Obama lovers, I've even been cut off by a prius. I'll stick by Ron Paul as I did last time because he is the only candidate that seems to give two shits about this country. Either way since the Electoral College decides the outcome of our election, there is no way Ron will win. So let's enjoy another 4.5 years of unemployment and inflation.

Really? You think there would be some sort of subversive plot to throw the election if Ron Paul won? :tinhat:

[SR240DET]

Look who contributed to their campaign. Ron paul doesn't have the right people on his side to make it into office, he hasn't been bought out, so he is clearly not going to make it.

[Walperstyle]

how to get the youth vote 101: legalize marijuana

Kids, smoking anything is bad. Instead of legalizing mary jane, why not make cigs illegal? lol, /troll post

[90white240]

Ron Paul all the way!!!!

[foxystyle]

jungle fever bro, OBAMA.