Alright, SR20DET Failed...again. Help please.

[BlackZenkiS14]

S14 Kouki SR20DET rebuilt 8 months ago with: CP Pistons, Bored .20 over, Apexi headgasket, ARP headstuds and main studs, new main/thust/rod bearings, polished crank, decked block, balanced drivetrain. Head was cleaned, but untouched otherwise. Mods are: OEM T28, Nismo 740cc injectors(flowtested/approved), Walbro 255, SAFC2, Greddy RSPL FMIC+other boltons etc...

Its been smoking a little bit lately, which I have kinda written off as being a rebuilt motor and possible smoke from turbo. However, this morning when I got home, it was smoking under light throttle and idling like a subaru, exact same symptoms as last summer.

Motor was installed rebuilt Last September, broke it in completely properly as instructed by the shop that built the motor. Everyone can attest for that. I have less than 5,000 miles on it probably, and only in the car for 9 months or so.

Rebuilt by a local shop. I've only driven it between August and Now, and of that whole time, only a few months I could actually drive the car (didnt drive it Dec/Jan/Feb AT ALL). Didnt do anything crazy, just drove home from the GF...'s house this morning, did about 90 all the way home, but didnt do anything weird.

Only been on 1.3BAR 18psi (tuned to 11.7-12.1 AFR) for about 1.5 months. Which is higher boost than stock, but I've kept a very close eye on the motor temp and AFR the whole time. All were completely within the range of safety specs. I've changed the oil 4 or 5 times since it's been back on the road last August. Motor has NEVER gotten hot, or anywhere close.

My injectors are Nismo 740cc injectors, that have been cleaned and flowtested within the past 300 miles. they all flow within 3cc of eachother.

well, Did a compression test tonight on a cold motor. compression numbers are as follows: (closed throttle/WOT)

#1) 120/123
#2) 135/135
#3) 128/130
#4) 130/130

Which doesnt tell me much, those are all bad compression numbers. Not terrible, but not good at all either. Something never seated right I would assume, but this also leads me to believe that the pistons are all probably in decent shape, going to do a leak down test tomorrow night after work to see whats going on further... :/ I am a bit surprised though, cause I was pretty confident I was going to find one of them was way low like last time...not sure what to think now.

Plugs show signs of detonation on #2 and #4, bad. :( I thought that as long as I had a safe AFR, I really couldnt do much damage on a stock turbo.

Here are my plugs in order 1,2,3,4:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/223369_10150574138815043_635255042_18508861_612891 3_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225600_10150574138955043_635255042_18508862_696099 8_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228756_10150574139005043_635255042_18508863_423963 7_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/225180_10150574139075043_635255042_18508864_495090 0_n.jpg

Someone help me out here. Apparently the SAFC2 doesnt work for this setup, besides a PFC, and a standalone, what can I do that will be more reliable and safer for tuning? Enthalpy/JWT+SAFC2? No one locally knows how to use the PFC, and I dont know how to use it, so I cant really go that route. I'll get more pics and info as I go.

[jr_ss]

They are low but not bad... They all seem pretty consistent and I'd rather have them all along the same numbers the. Way out on one.

Spend the money and get a real tune like you were told months ago in your SAFC thread and be done with it. I have a feeling you may have hurt the motor by running the shit SAFC. Atkeast this is something you can fix on your own. If you need too hone the cylinders and rering it yourself.

[BlackZenkiS14]

They are low but not bad... They all seem pretty consistent and I'd rather have them all along the same numbers the. Way out on one.

Spend the money and get a real tune like you were told months ago in your SAFC thread and be done with it. I have a feeling you may have hurt the motor by running the shit SAFC. Atkeast this is something you can fix on your own. If you need too hone the cylinders and rering it yourself.

I hate to say it, but your exactly right :(

Im trying to figure out what to do now. I cant really go with a PFC, because no one locall knows how to tune with them, and I dont trust myself learning it.

What about a pretuned ecu (JWT/Enthalpy) along with my SAFC? Would that be safe?

[jr_ss]

I think the JWT/Enthalpy tunes would be your best options. If you have to, data log it and send it back for fine tuning but get rid of the damn SAFC completely.

I wasn't trying to be a dick, but you were warned about it then. Hopefully it's nothing "major" in your motor and catch a break.

Just because you have "safe" AFR's doesn't mean you can't run lean in parts of your tune, especially with a piggy back. Tuning isn't about just getting good AFR's, you have to take into account timing as well. There are other aspects than just a good fuel mixture that contribute to a healthy running and performaning engine. Hopefully you didn't learn it the "hard" way so to speak. Good luck man

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea, I am learning it now. When I was doing tuning, all I was taking into consideration was the AFR :(

I dont think Im gonna try to even make this motor work again soon, I'm just gonna buy a full new motor swap, and get it back on the road, and take my time rebuilding my current motor, and make sure its done right, and save for real tuning options in the meantime.

[boost addict]

sorry to hear that man. you should look into nistune, im sure youve heard of it. thats what im getting mine tuned with and for the price you cant beat it

[BlackZenkiS14]

sorry to hear that man. you should look into nistune, im sure youve heard of it. thats what im getting mine tuned with and for the price you cant beat it

I just started to look into that, but dont know much about it yet. Does the chip come with the software and everything needed to make adjustments with it on a laptop? or what?

[boost addict]

yea you send your ecu to the dealer and they install the chip, you get the software, license, cable. everything you need then go get it tuned

[mct3351]

Are you running a stock maf? With 740cc injectors and a stock maf I imagine the corrections the safc is making may be putting you in much more advanced portions of the stock ignition map than ideal.

edit: At 18psi I'd hope not. The safc will still put you in more advanced regions of the stock ign map with 740's and z32 maf. Is base timing set properly?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Base is set, but yea I was Z32+740cc

[BlackZenkiS14]

Wonder if I had detonation problems at all....FML :(

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215102_10150721340975043_635255042_19845735_357876 8_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/254772_10150721341095043_635255042_19845739_587357 4_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285324_10150721341370043_635255042_19845745_364095 5_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282540_10150721341455043_635255042_19845748_764921 5_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/281895_10150721341535043_635255042_19845749_424755 0_n.jpg

[fliprayzin240sx]

How'd you managed to run a SAFC with 740cc injectors to begin with? Looking at that engine, detonation issues for sure. Hot enough to melt aftermarket forged pistons and block. I'm surprised you didnt get rod knocks first before anything else.

[[email protected]]

See, SAFC's kill motors. Bad...

[BlackZenkiS14]

surprisingly the bearings and everything look immaculate lol

[BiG MiKE86]

Wow that sucks... Goodluck on your next build... stay the eff away from SAFC's!

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea, S13 Blacktop in the works now. Gonna go with a JWT ECU, and just be done with it. I dont care about peak power at all, I just want reliability.

[jr_ss]

My question is, how did you not hear that motor pinging away? I bet that thing sounded like a sparkler crackling inside your motor.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well, the rest of the car is pretty loud, lack of sound deadening, no mufflers, etc...and it wasnt a sound I was familiar with. Looking back now, I can remember hearing it, but didnt know what it was, or even that I should be concerned with it. Im learning.

[jr_ss]

Sometimes it doesn't sound like a knock. It sounds like a sizzling or crackling so to speak. I heard it a few times on my last motor, before I knew exactly what it was... Now I know exactly what detonation sounds like. Just hope I never hear it again

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yep. thats the sound I remember too :(

[s14unimog]

wow man that sucks... You and I have very similar builds but I'm running a Nistune system. I hate that you lost those pistons but hey, look at it this way, you've got nifty looking ash trays now (I know that's not funny). I gave away my last pistons as presents; lol.

GL on your next build. Something was up for sure. Did you just try and compensate for the injectors and MAFS with the SAFC? Has it not been on the dyno? Its one of those things you HAVE to do when building up an SR. Otherwise you risk throwing parts away...

[Chrischeezer]

Do another compression check with a cap full of oil in each cylinder.

this is fill in any missing "ring" and the compression will jump up.. if it stays the same.. your rings are good..

[bookoo]

How about the 4months you didn't drive it...sounds like the rings did not get seated very well.

[bb4_96]

Unless the safc was free a tuned ecu would probably been cheaper.

[bookoo]

And I agree do another comp test...but if your trying to see if you can get good numbers...use just some generic automatic transmission fluid...best way to do a comp wet test

[BlackZenkiS14]

LOL you guys didnt see the updated pictures I posted apparently..Its detonated to fuck.

[Chrischeezer]

Omg.. didn't realize you were talking about the SAME engine ...

oh shit.. sorry

[Datspar]

IMO 11.7-12 is not a 'safe' A/F ratio... more like 11.5 and lower...

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea. Im still learning I guess.

I'm throwing in the towel on this S14 motor though, and Parting it out (http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/399953-s14-sr20det-parts-alt-water-pump-block-head-cas-ign-coils-etc.html)

[mct3351]

Dont lose hope. I've killed 2 motors (looked exactly like yours) from detonation before i figured out what i was doing with timing tuning... Learning experiences.

[PoorMans180SX]

Yeah ignition timing is big in tuning.

Also, make sure you're running the proper heat range spark plugs.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well I decided that it was in my best interest to not try to sleeve/rebuild my other motor, 2 failures in a year tell me that there is some voodoo beyond my reasoning that wont allow it to run...lol. So here I have started with a new "fresh off the boat" S13 SR20DET. It is going to be a fairly stock swap at first. I've replaced every gasket I've removed/touched, put a new intake manifold on, powdercoated the valve cover, got new belts, and put on my old T28 turbo setup. Im only going to run like 10psi on it with stock fuel system for now.

Once I am confident in the motor, I will send off my ECU to Jim Wolf Tech and have them flash it for my Z32 MAF, 740cc injectors, and increased boost up to 18psi. That setup should be good for around actual 300whp. Im just now getting the motor together up at the shop. Its taking a while, because I am doing it right, replacing gaskets, and making sure everything is clean before installing. I got all the wiring finished, and should have the motor totally done within a day or two. Here is the progress so far on the motor, I will keep this thread updated until it is back on the road! Thanks for looking, cant wait to fucking get back in my car!!!

S13 Blacktop (ignore the valve cover...and turbo, it never ran with that turbo, it was just the motor he bolted it to once it was imported to show off the turbo kit, so he could sell it)
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/283907_10150726855425043_635255042_19916374_132756 2_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/281226_10150726855715043_635255042_19916377_399406 5_n.jpg

Cleaned it up a bit:
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262832_10150735169605043_635255042_20035547_390224 1_n.jpg

Stripped the VC for powdercoat:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/250060_10150726599005043_635255042_19913787_238261 6_n.jpg

Got a new intake:
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283406_10150737410555043_635255042_20060270_717454 3_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228995_10150737743255043_635255042_20064014_158759 9_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228956_10150737918560043_635255042_20065941_883830 _n.jpg

Installed my turbo:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216732_10150742240155043_635255042_20124801_507633 8_n.jpg

Almost there!

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299208_10150752646300043_635255042_20261360_657275 6_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/291893_10150752646330043_635255042_20261361_609888 0_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292864_10150752646410043_635255042_20261363_498945 2_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299721_10150752646470043_635255042_20261364_272926 7_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297798_10150752646530043_635255042_20261369_423949 3_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297992_10150752646595043_635255042_20261370_483130 4_n.jpg

[boost addict]

looks good man, hope everything goes well this time

[Bbsalexaz]

stop getting it chipped. thats going to be a rich tune that won't really get anything done for ya. I would recommend buying nistune, and the board required to tune the ecu. then take the car to a tuning shop.

[BlackZenkiS14]

stop getting it chipped. thats going to be a rich tune that won't really get anything done for ya. I would recommend buying nistune, and the board required to tune the ecu. then take the car to a tuning shop.

You find me a competent tuning shop within 250miles of my house, and I'll do it.

I dont care about peak power, I need dead solid reliability.

[Datspar]

Nice motor, and I'll take the girly :D

[boost addict]

Bbsalexaz is right, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned nistune to you before. I just got mine and for the 300 bucks it's a great price for what it does. I think if you have to go 250 miles then do it, it'll be worth it

[Toi]

You find me a competent tuning shop within 250miles of my house, and I'll do it.

I dont care about peak power, I need dead solid reliability.


If that is what your looking for, go get a proper tune. Any reputable shop can tune the car to run in a reliable manner without pushing the envelope.

Even if you have to take a trip, in the long run it will be worth it!

[BlackZenkiS14]

If that is what your looking for, go get a proper tune. Any reputable shop can tune the car to run in a reliable manner without pushing the envelope.

Even if you have to take a trip, in the long run it will be worth it!

Thats what Im saying is that there are no reputable shops anywhere near our town thaT I trust to tune it.

I've talked to enough people to feel confident in my decision to go JWT.

[EJ8 944]

Have you thought about flying in someone to tune your car? Long as you can find a shop you could rent some dyno time from.

[BlackZenkiS14]

That is serious money. Like nearing 1k, plus the cost of the tuning software, and plus the cost of the dyno time.

This is a street driven, stock block car, on a T28 lol, I dont think all of that is necessary to achieve a safe solid tune!

[BlackZenkiS14]

Got it in, and it runs!
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318480_10150759070660043_635255042_20330694_122868 2_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296409_10150759434080043_635255042_20335287_278282 9_n.jpg

[codyace]

IMO 11.7-12 is not a 'safe' A/F ratio... more like 11.5 and lower...

Without a doubt 11.5 and lower is 'more safe' but 11.7-12.0 on a stockish setup is plenty fine.


stop getting it chipped. thats going to be a rich tune that won't really get anything done for ya. I would recommend buying nistune, and the board required to tune the ecu. then take the car to a tuning shop.

Sure Nistune is capable of tuning it, but if the end tuner is an idiot, or incapable, it's no better than the SAFC in regard to being safe (not in comparison).

Bbsalexaz is right, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned nistune to you before. I just got mine and for the 300 bucks it's a great price for what it does. I think if you have to go 250 miles then do it, it'll be worth it


The thing is, is it that much better than a JWT or Enthalpy tune? Hard to say...the JWT and Enthalpy tunes work great, and are proven to be more than safe most 'streetable' power levels....not to mention turn key/oem like functionality. Can't beat that. Don't relate random reburnt 'tunes' to a one off tune from either JWT or Enthalpy.


If that is what your looking for, go get a proper tune. Any reputable shop can tune the car to run in a reliable manner without pushing the envelope.
Even if you have to take a trip, in the long run it will be worth it!

What's to say the 'tuner' is any better than a JWT setup? If anything there are COUNTLESS cars on here with 'custom tunes' that make less power and drive shittier than a quality rom rune. Very few tuners are worth their weight....and that's across the board/all brands.

Have you thought about flying in someone to tune your car? Long as you can find a shop you could rent some dyno time from.

Yes, since his stock engine needs a 1000 dollar tune :facepalm:

[codyace]

Got it in, and it runs!

Nice stuff man!

[BlackZenkiS14]

Nice stuff man!

Yep! Thanks for the support Cody. I’m really taking as much of your experienced advice to heart as I can with this new build.

I am currently just on the S14 T28, with the Isis intake, stock fuel, stock ecu, and stock MAF. I’ll get some more pics of everything tonight. Gonna work out some of the finer kinks tonight at the shop I hope, and have it on the road solidly. I plan on running it like this for a month or so, to make sure everything else is trouble free.
I have my Z32 MAF, and 740CC injectors sitting in my room just waiting to get funds together for my JWT ecu. And then hopefully upgrade to the .64 2871 in the spring time!

All I hope for is reliability, streetability, and 325whp. In the meantime, once I get the 740cc injectors and Z32 MAF on with the JWT, how much boost can I safely run on that setup with the S14 T28?

[fliprayzin240sx]

With your current track record...leave it at stock boost. No need to crank up the boost till you get a tune. Last thing you need is cranking it up and that shit starts knocking.

[BlackZenkiS14]

With your current track record...leave it at stock boost. No need to crank up the boost till you get a tune. Last thing you need is cranking it up and that shit starts knocking.

Thats the plan. I wont touch a single thing until I have my JWT.

Although, this motor might be bad, so I might be a while off from anything at this point :(