Would you "trade" your S14 for a '90 300zx???

[stevebsvs]

this is a spur of the moment thing. My 95 240sx is stock with minor upgrades:

2.5" catback powertech exhaust
intake
Denso Iridium spark plugs
OBX 10.5mm wires
brembo cross drilled, slotted rotors X 4
Strut tower brace
Battle Version Rear Upper Control Arms

pics of the car (last year) are here at http://stevebsvs.nismo.org

Would you trade my car in for a 1990 300ZX NA in clean clean condition (manual tranny, ttops)?????

I wanna prevent myself from making a spur of the moment decision, since my friend is the car salesman!!

[Dousan_PG]

absolutely NOT

TT...i'd consider it.

[stevebsvs]

I know...but I want a standard!! :( lol

and TTOPS

:(..

Is there something I should know bout 300's? are there flaws...my friend says they have some electrical issues.

[Dousan_PG]

electrical
engine work (have you seeen the engine of a Z? you lose tools in there and cant reach stuff. also its heavy. nto as heavy as a supra but still hefty

lack of power and decent mods on NA

that'swhy i say, a TT consider it. NA is junk, IMHO
ive driven a heavily modded TT..near 450 rwhp..love it. LOVE it.

NA..blaaaah.

its this car 2+2?

[stevebsvs]

I hear ya. Im going to find out more about the car. I heard about it from a friend of mine. Im going to talk to the used car guy, her brother and see what I can find out. I do love the lightness of the 240....

sorry for my ignorance, but what's 2+2 signify?

[Yoshi]

4 person seating, 2front, 2 rear

[OptionZero]

You should think about what you want your car for.

You won't be AutoXing or drifting a 300zx anytime soon. It's also not a drag car. The N/a suffers from a poor aftermarket.

So are you getting a car just to pimp in and drive around town? Were you planning to "finish" the 240?

I thought the 300zx weighed 3600lbs, to me, few cars can call themselves pure sports cars or be very entertaining when they are that heavy.

Meanwhilst, the 240 has like a swiss army knife- endless potential to battle anywhere, mountain, track, strip, autoX, drift, freeway.

Your car is a '95. The 3z is '90. Thats old.

[stevebsvs]

excellent point....I want more of a fast drag car...not too enthuzed bout autocrossing or drifting. I know I'd kill myself on the track/road.

I dont know, but I am alot less enthusiastic about the trade so far. Im gonna actually see the car tonight and will have made up my mind.

I love the quick feedback. Thanks guys!

[JasonNagra]

S13 and S14 (especially S13 IMO) is just much more fun to drive even with KA compared to n/a Z. Just me though.

[BadMoJo]

Dont do it. Just take one look under the hood at the engine, and from underneth... its a freaking nightmare to work on. I would never get one just for that reason alone.

[OptionZero]

Even the turbo 3Z isn't a good drag car! Its rear suspension geometry despises traction, so no way to launch it effectively. And, its TOO FREAKIN" HEAVY. A n/a 3z would be even stupid on the strip, its embarassing.
The 3z is an old man's GT car...you cruise on the street and pimp with it, but its not pure sports.

[Dousan_PG]

funny. i know of guys w/ turbo zs who run w/ stock turbos and a RELATIVELY stock setup that runs high 11s lows 12

its all about the driver!!

i believe a local so cali guy w/ a z32tt has 700ish rwhp on his z32tt. no its not like a supra but its also not a i-6. different kind of car.


i think your talking out of your ass.

btw, supras are HEAVIER then a z32tt! HAHA

[SimpleS14]

Simple Answer: NO

[Chernobyl]

Only way I'd trade my s14 for a z32 is if the z32 was 2 seater, NA, 5speed, NO t-tops (slicktop), charcoal gray, cloth non-power interior, and NO bose. That's just me though... I'm still looking for that perfect lightweight slicktop z32. Do what you want, take the Z for a spin, I think you'll be impressed, even with the NA. Porky car, but I never complained about mine, and it was a 2+2 auto:(

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by dousan36
i believe a local so cali guy w/ a z32tt has 700ish rwhp on his z32tt. no its not like a supra but its also not a i-6. different kind of car.


I've driven that car :eek:.

Before you call :bs:, it was while I worked at the stealership. I never got it above 10mph! hahaha
but i did go and pick the guy up from his house so he could drive it home. Really nice guy & super knowledgable. I LOOOVE his wheels... 3pc HREs... 17x10 in rear, iirc.. MKIV Supra front brakes... omg. his car was NICE. Interior looked stock, as did exterior, except for wheels. BAD ASS.

[russian]

unless you have access to a shop say bye-buy to working on the engine. i wouldnt take it unless its a TT:rolleyes:

[West]

Hard decision. I had a 93 2+2 NA with almost all the bolt-ons and I loved the thing. It handled great despite its weight and hauled ass for have what at the time was estimated 270hp at the crank. Working on the engine is a HUGE PITA. I swapped in Headers on mine and OMG, I might as well just pulled the whole engine. They are two totally different cars, both have their benefits and drawback. Think about what you love about the 240.. then the 300... then decide, should be simple.

[misnomer]

hehehe, I'm the only one who would consider it? I'd definitely do it if the Z wasn't a 2+2.

Very important: what kind of mileage and condition are both cars?

[Toso]

I've had a 98 S14 and a 90 Z32TT. I'd say its really up to you. They're differnt cars, with different strengths and weaknesses. And I'd like to point out for the 'Z expert' (OptionZero) that the Z32 and S14 have the same rear end 'issue' with traction. You just dont notice it in the S14 because the stock KA (what OptionZero has) there just isnt as much power to feel it as readily. Trust me, they do the exact same thing. Yes, they are hard to work on, but you get used to it. And after that car, not many things scare you. Test drive the car and see which you like better. But I would recommend going for a TT over an NA. But thats a no brainer.

[OptionZero]

FYI, i'm not 3Z expert. Just going from what i read and hear from guys who have 3Z. And on other forums.

I was unaware of the traction issue on 240sx's.

I just relaly like the versatility of the 240, potential in all aspects.

[Toso]

Originally posted by OptionZero
FYI, i'm not 3Z expert. Just going from what i read and hear from guys who have 3Z. And on other forums.

I was unaware of the traction issue on 240sx's.

I just relaly like the versatility of the 240, potential in all aspects.

You say you're not a Z32 expert but you make some pretty bold statements. Lets address them shall we...

Originally posted by OptionZero
You won't be AutoXing or drifting a 300zx anytime soon. It's also not a drag car.

The reason you dont see more of them at the track is because of the price. You see tons of civics and integras there. Does that mean they are the ultimate car? What does that say about cars you never see at the track? Does that mean that the Lotus Elise would be horrible for AutoX? I kinda doubt that. I'll admit that they cost more to upgrade than a lot of other cars but you get what you pay for.

Originally posted by OptionZero
The N/a suffers from a poor aftermarket.

No, it doesn't. It uses the exact same parts that the TT uses. Of course you wont be buying bov's and intercoolers for it. But thats because its NA.

Originally posted by OptionZero
I thought the 300zx weighed 3600lbs, to me, few cars can call themselves pure sports cars or be very entertaining when they are that heavy.

Haha, have you driven one? Not entertaining? I would be willing to bet that a stock Z32 handles better than your S14 with your mods. All that and almost twice the power stock. You're right, that doesnt sound entertaining does it?

Originally posted by OptionZero
Your car is a '95. The 3z is '90. Thats old.

Maybe its just me, but I think the condition of the car is a little more important than the age. There are plenty of older cars that I'd love to have.

Originally posted by OptionZero
Its rear suspension geometry despises traction, so no way to launch it effectively.

I'd love to hear you explanation as to why this is? Then we can both share a laugh because the S chassis cars share the same rear end design. And then we can talk about how you can deal with this issue. I'll be waiting for your explanation.

Originally posted by OptionZero
A n/a 3z would be even stupid on the strip, its embarassing.

I'll agree that they aren't blindingly fast. But I'd wager that its still faster than your car.

Originally posted by OptionZero
The 3z is an old man's GT car...you cruise on the street and pimp with it, but its not pure sports.

Thats hilarious. I think we should just take a moment to reflect on the vast amounts of information that you've given us to lead us all to that conclusion.... ok that's long enough. We're all entitled to our opinions, I just dont get how you could say this. Please explain.

Originally posted by OptionZero
I just relaly like the versatility of the 240, potential in all aspects.

So you're implying that the Z32 has no potential? Lets examine that. I would be willing to bet that given the same mods on an S14 and a Z32, the Z32 will make more power. We probably shouldn't even talk about the difference if we put the parts on a TT. Upgraded suspension will do about the same for each car. Have you ever thought it was interesting how a decent amount of stock Z32 parts are upgrades for S chassis cars?

I just want to hear your explanations for all of the 'facts' and 'opinions' you have shared with us.

I happen to like both cars. I just think your information is a bit off.

Looking forward to your reply.

[Dousan_PG]

:bite:
anxiously awaiting reply...


but i feel somebody's....

:Owned:

[Red]

Well... I would do a Z if it was TT and if the Insurance was as cheep as my 240 :)

Thats why I passed up a nice pearl TTZ for my 240... it was like 400$ a month ins at the time... the 240 was only 320.

But for ultra car... I'll stick with the 240... Much lighter and you can stick in a vast array of engines to beef it up to any want.

[Bluestick]

Hi!
lol, all i got to say is, don't trade!!! the 240 has alot more potential then the 3z.:confused:

[nrcooled]

240 fits [B]My driving style. That is most important. Find the one that fits your tastes. I personally don't like the feel of a Z just a hair too heavy and a bit sluggish around the corners (felt like it needed too much steering imput) But other then that it's not bad.

[russian]

Originally posted by Toso
You say you're not a Z32 expert but you make some pretty bold statements. Lets address them shall we...
The reason you dont see more of them at the track is because of the price.
Looking forward to your reply.


:Owned: :spank:

[stevebsvs]

Guys guys guys!!!!

This is why I love zilvia.net!!!

I took a look at the car last night. That particular car is ok...I wouldn't have paid more than $4,000 for it though. It's clean, but still could be cleaner. They want $6,500 and that's way too much for an NA z...

I thought about my car...and felt like I cheated on it! LOL... I love my car, the ride, the suspension, the lightweightedness and the sleek look of it. However the only thing I dont like is that it's a freakin automatic :(. I so yearn for the chance to swap my tranny.

I have two roads in front of me. The first is to put a couple grand into mine, and turbo'ing the KA, swapping the tranny, new rims, and a nismo or greddy kit. This will run me some cash and won't happen soon. The outcome will definitely be a tight, fast car, however I dont see myself at a track anytime soon. Maybe after I graduate in May, land the dream job, and manage my school loans.

The second road is to either invest in a 91+ 300ZX TT 2 seater, upgrade it and have the "ultimate z". I see myself spending almost the same in cash for upgrades and custom work. However, Im sure that the z will be more of a fast, drag car than the 240 with the same amount of cash thrown into it.

So, my conclusion is to keep my 240 unless I come across a TT that I cannot turn away from (perhaps modded with the cleanest interior and fairly low mileage, and a resonable price). I know Im dreaming, but that's what it's gonna take...

PS. I am looking forward to that guy's reply too!!!

[OptionZero]

I'm a man, i'll fess up:

I probably shouldn't have said what I did because i didn't know what i thought i did.

So you are probably correct.

That said:

Wouldn't it seem easier to make a 155hp, 2800lbs car fast t han to make a 220hp, 3600lbs car fast?


And as others have pointed out, the 3z engine bay is a pretty tight fit. Sure it has 3.0 liters to deal with, but also nearly half a ton more to move.

A 240 has an easy SR solution. 220hp, 2800s with a stock SR. nobody here needs me to tell them that. You tell me, is it easy to bring a n/a 3z to even a stock 3z's level of 300hp?

As for price, doesn't an early '90's turbo 3Z go for around 12G's or less? They have been around 6 years, '90-'96 if memory serves my correctly. A naturally aspirated 3Z would be under 10G's, the same as a very good condition 97-98 s14. So if you want one, you can likely find one. Obviously, insurance plays a big factor.

Rear anti-squat geometry?
Got that from this quote:
"Additionally, the suspension geometry in the rear discouraged any squat at drag starts; in fact, it could produce a bit of annoying wheel hop." - SCC, pg98 jun '03
Certainly, SCC is not the gospel, but in their own project car, they also had problems at the drag strip.
Yes, the S-chassis does share parts wiith the 3Z, but i simply have not read anyone on this forum talk about traction problems. Then also, in SCC's attempt to make Project 240 run 12's at the strip, they did not mention any similar problems with the rear suspension.

Again, i am not saying SCC is right, but i have taken neither a 3Z nor my 240 to a drag strip, so that is what i based my conclusion on.

As for a stock z32 vs. a 240...were you talking about a turbo 3z? Because at 220 hp, a 3z has no where near twice the power as a 155hp. And i dunno, has anyone seen a n/a z32 vs. 240 stock for stock battle on the track?

in another thread at FA, a few people reported some mid-high 15sec times at the strip. Is the n/a 3z any better?

As for why 3z parts are used on a 240, well, it doesn't seem THAT interesting to me. The 3Z began life as a $40,000 sports car, i'm sure nissan did their work designing it. Why are their parts so often found on a 240?

The stock 3z brakes were designed to stop a 3600lbs car. Seems to me that would be a pretty big upgrade on a car weighing around 2800lbs. Same braking force, less mass to stop.
Availablility also plays a big part. Six year production run, there's gonna be some junked 3z's obviously. then, top that off with 3z owners who have upgraded their brakes and no longer need their stock brake hardware, and you have yourself a good source of extra stopping power.

What other stuff? a 3z MAF? isn't that because the 3Z has a 3.0, and therefore would naturally have more air going into it? Apply that MAF to a 2.4L engine, and its an upgrade. Again, i do not have a 3Z MAF on my 240, but that is what i have gathered from my time here. Correct me if i am wrong, please.

What else from a 3Z goes on a 240?

So yeah, i really DO think you know more then 3Z's than me. And yes, i probably WAS talking out of my ass. I'd just like to see why my arguments were so wrong. Besides, most people came to the same conclusion, including dousan himself...they wouldn't trade the 240 for a n/a 3z.

And sorry, OT, but i was at school, so i didn't always get to check Zilvia. And my f#cking Giants had to blow Games 2 and 3, F#ckin jose cruz...

[ca18guy]

Just to clear something up that seems to be out of place in this thread.... a 1990 300ZX n/a only weighs 3219lbs! For comparison a 350Z perf. model weighs 3217lbs.

[zenkiDori]

never. just about the only car in the US that i would trade my S14 for and keep would be an FD3S.

[stevebsvs]

what kinda car is that? sorry for the ignorance
:wackit:

[Toso]

Originally posted by stevebsvs
what kinda car is that? sorry for the ignorance
:wackit:

RX7

[Sundi240]

Well you all know what Im gonna say, but I'll say it anyways. It seems this guy is more into just cruising and drag racing, so I recommend looking into the domestic market, because thats what they do best. Thats exactly why I bought my Mustang, I didn't care THAT much about AutoX, but I still wanted RWD and lots of power. Plus domestics are cheap as well as parts for them.

[ca18guy]

Originally posted by Sundi240
Well you all know what Im gonna say, but I'll say it anyways. It seems this guy is more into just cruising and drag racing, so I recommend looking into the domestic market, because thats what they do best. Thats exactly why I bought my Mustang, I didn't care THAT much about AutoX, but I still wanted RWD and lots of power. Plus domestics are cheap as well as parts for them.

:ugh:
That would be a great response if he asked us what car he should buy, but he didn't, he asked if he should trade his 240 for a 300 :bash:

[Toso]

Originally posted by OptionZero
I'm a man, i'll fess up:


Its all good. Just had to clear a few things up.

If both the NA Z32 and the S14 were in similar condition, I wouldnt trade for the Z32. I'm a bit biased though. I have a Z32 already. I've had both and driven Dousan's S13 on quite a few occasions. They are all nice cars. And like I said they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I loved my S14 and will hopefully be picking up another one as well as an S13. My problem isnt with anyone's opinions. Its with whats being passes off as fact. I'll agree that an NA Z32 doesnt make a huge amount of power for its weight, and against an S chassis with an SR, it feels even slower. I have seen my friend race his KA S13 with all the typical bolt ons race my friend in his Stage 3 auto NA. The NA was faster. Sadly, I dont remember the ET's so I cant say by how much. It wasnt a ton though.

Most of my knowledge is with the TT's. And I do have a problem with people saying that they have no potential. Since most people in this thread didnt differenciate between NA and TT when saying they have no potential, I felt the need to step in. I have yet to hear of an SR or KAT that is making any where near 650 RWHP on stock internals. I have seen it with VG30DETT's. One thing to keep in mind is that that is the stock motor so I never have to worry about getting pulled over and being caught with a motor swap or illegal turbo kit. In CA that can be a big deal. Yes, its a pain to work on, no way around that. You get used to it. I wouldnt let it stop me from getting a car I liked.

Pricing on Z's is a lot lower than that. My case is pretty rare, but I got my 90 TT for $4700 back in 97-98. It was in bad shape and I've been building it up ever since. You'd be suprised by how much the pricing on them has dropped since the Z33 came out. Sadly, its usually because people run them into the ground. One major problem with how hard they are to work on, they arent always maintained as well.

I'm suprised that SCC didnt mention the rear end issues with their 240. Its the same setup as the Z32. A set of subframe spacers go a long way towards fixing it, and full aluminum inserts gets rid of a bit more of the wheel hop. But both chassis's have the anti squating prolem.

I'm dont really have a problem with anything you said opinion wise. Like I said, just clearing up some facts.

[OptionZero]

So i'll put theall important "IHMO" next time

[old_s13]

Both cars are great, just depends what you want:

Z32 is a heavier and more stable car, its wider.. so its better for higher speeds.

240SX is a lighter chassis, better for certain smaller mountain roads.

As for drag, both have the same issues with traction.. nothing a solid rear end wont fix. :)

ps: Safety-wise, NHTSA showed that the S13 rated VERY well in head-on collision, then the S14, then the Z32. I had the links somewhere.. but its good to know the S13 is the safest of the bunch, amazingly enough (and no airbag too). WOW!

- Mike

[proj240sx]

i wouldnt even trade my s13 for one..i hate those cars..see them almost every day with something wrong with them at work =/

[Spec_v5150]

I have never driven a 300zx, but I would trade if I were in the situation. I was looking for a N/A 300zx. They had one at my local dealer and I fianlly begged enough to sell my S13 and get it and the damn car was gone. My plans were to....get the engine rebuilt to handle nitrous. I was going to do every bolt on/mod available for the N/A and then slap a 100 shot on it for weeked use. Or you can always do the TT conversion. There is a write up of a guy converting the n/A to TT for under 4000. Which isnt bad considering what is involved

[zenkiDori]

Originally posted by stevebsvs
what kinda car is that? sorry for the ignorance
:wackit:
late model RX7. 1993 and up.

[Id-]

funny. i know of guys w/ turbo zs who run w/ stock turbos and a RELATIVELY stock setup that runs high 11s lows 12

its all about the driver!!

i believe a local so cali guy w/ a z32tt has 700ish rwhp on his z32tt. no its not like a supra but its also not a i-6. different kind of car.


i think your talking out of your ass.

btw, supras are HEAVIER then a z32tt! HAHA

now who's talking out of their ass here?
stock turbo Z32s DONT run 11s OR 12s... you MIGHT see one run 12s on a good launch but for the most part they run 13s!!! I know; I've seen too many to count and I used to OWN one!!!
Z32TTs are unreliable in many ways, they are heavy and stiff which makes them FEEL like they handle well but they are relatively mediocre, the SupraTT and the RX-7 of the 93+ generation ran circles around them...

the 700rwhp Z prolly still runs high 12s... i remember Kyle Puckett a few years ago having some 650rwhp and running 10.60s at 144mph... pathetic, should have been in the mid 9s along with Ari and a few other cars at similar mph

Supras are NOT heavier than a Z32; they weigh just about the same... you shouldnt even compare the two cars in the same sentence...


The reason you dont see more of them at the track is because of the price. You see tons of civics and integras there. Does that mean they are the ultimate car? What does that say about cars you never see at the track? Does that mean that the Lotus Elise would be horrible for AutoX? I kinda doubt that. I'll admit that they cost more to upgrade than a lot of other cars but you get what you pay for.
no the reason you dont seem them at the track is because they suck at auto-x and they suck at drag racing... the Z is prolly good for roadracing, but there ARE better cars out there... there are auto-x guys out there with money; and guess what they race? miata's, WRXs, and RX-7s... not to mention DSRs and done-up C4s and C5s...


Z32 N/As have no aftermarket for being FAST is the world I think the guy meant to say... turbocharging their NA motor leads to many problems :)


Haha, have you driven one? Not entertaining? I would be willing to bet that a stock Z32 handles better than your S14 with your mods. All that and almost twice the power stock. You're right, that doesnt sound entertaining does it?
i SERIOUSLY doubt it; while the Z has loads of grip; the S14 with suspension mods would drive circles around it, its far lighter and nimble, tracks better, responds better, etc, etc, etc the list goes on... the ZX was never meant to be some big handling car; it was built as a grand tourer from the beginning... it does several things well; and some things not so well; its more of a jack of all trades



Maybe its just me, but I think the condition of the car is a little more important than the age. There are plenty of older cars that I'd love to have.
I hear you, I'd love to have a 240z or 280z with a L28ET swapped in just as a fun car (or better yet a RB25 :D)


I'll agree that they aren't blindingly fast. But I'd wager that its still faster than your car.
prolly the same speed; Z32 NAs run 15s with a decent driver



So you're implying that the Z32 has no potential? Lets examine that. I would be willing to bet that given the same mods on an S14 and a Z32, the Z32 will make more power. We probably shouldn't even talk about the difference if we put the parts on a TT. Upgraded suspension will do about the same for each car. Have you ever thought it was interesting how a decent amount of stock Z32 parts are upgrades for S chassis cars?

I seriously doubt it; the VG30 would probably explode or overheat or something, trust me I know from experience... upgraded suspension just makes the Z corner stiffer; it does nothing for its portly 3500lb curb weight and horrible anti-squat suspension (which doesnt help that its already heavy)...
its interesting that a lot of Z chassis parts are upgrades for S chassis because the Z IS SO FREAKING HEAVY.... the Z32TT brakes SUCK HARDCORE IN A Z... why are they better on a 240? because the 240 weighs 800lbs less... the car has bigger and stronger things on it because it HAS to... same reason you have monster brakes on dumptrucks to slow them down or really beefy rear-ends to handle the torque... same principle applies here

I dont hate the Z32, but I know exactly what it is after owning LOTS of BETTER cars... its a jack of all trades GT car meant for pimping around in and light performance driving (top speed runs come to mind with the .29 cd)... I do hate, however, Z32 owners that think they are the biggest shit in the world because they own the most powerful (and heavy) Z made... the Z could have been so much more but Nissan used a V6 instead of a I6, and it was far to heavy to be anymore than a grippy touring car...

your condescending attitude towards a 240sx owner is exactly what I cant tolerate; you act like the S14 is such a lower car than a Z32...

[Id-]

never. just about the only car in the US that i would trade my S14 for and keep would be an FD3S.

hope you wouldnt be trading your daily driver :D

[Phlip]

never. just about the only car in the US that i would trade my S14 for and keep would be an FD3S.
I would only trade my S14 for an FD because I FLIPPED my S14 last year... I wouldn't want the nightmare of having to work on or possibly having to replace the engine in the FD, does anyone know what drove that car from the US market?

[ca18guy]

About a year late on the reply there Id- and yes stock turbo Z32's are in the 11's