SAFC2+740cc Injectors on SR20DET (Anyone else doing it?)

[BlackZenkiS14]

I was just wondering if anyone else out there is running 740cc Injectors on their SR and tuning with an SAFC2?

I'm GT28RS+740cc injectors+Z32 MAF+BPU, and am going to start tuning it this week. I got it driveable and idling perfect yesterday.

Just wondering if anyone else is running this setup or similar?

[Sileighty_85]

Nah we love our engines enough to actually get a real tune when running a bigger turbo so we can actually adjust timing so they dont blow up

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well, seeing as I am on the Stock turbo for this motor, Im sure my timing will be just fine. (The pic in my sig is my old car/motor. I'm now on a S14SR with built bottom end)

When I do upgrade to a GT3071, I'll make sure to upgrade to a PFC as well. However, for the time being I cannot afford one, nor can I afford to pay someone to tune it. We can tune my car on a SAFC2 just fine with my in car wideband.

[Sileighty_85]

Isnt the GT28RS the "Disco Potato"?
Thats not the stock turbo.

Maybe you ment the GT28R?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Isnt the GT28RS the "Disco Potato"?
Thats not the stock turbo.

Maybe you ment the GT28R?

Oh, maybe your right. I just know its the OEM turbo on my S14 motor. I have a Kouki motor, and its a ball bearing turbo, so I thought that was the 28RS?

Either way, the important thing is that I have the stock turbo, and dont need to worry about timing too much yet.

[codyace]

SAFC wont' even control 740cc injectors.

[BlackZenkiS14]

SAFC wont' even control 740cc injectors.

how do you mean? I got my car idling between 14.5-15.5 AFR very solid. And drives around town on low throttle maps at the same AFR.

[ATLspeed]

SAFC wont' even control 740cc injectors.

370cc/740cc = 0.5 :: 0.5 - 1 = -.50 [-50%]

it can do it.

[BlackZenkiS14]

370cc/740cc = 0.5 :: 0.5 - 1 = -.50 [-50%]

it can do it.

Thanks, yea, I was able to make it idle damn near perfect at 14.7 and drive around under low throttle at 14.7 pretty damn well. No issues there really, sitting at -30% reduction on the low-throttle tuning map. So I still did have some room left if I needed (SAFC goes to -+50%).

[Aoshi112]

370cc/740cc = 0.5 :: 0.5 - 1 = -.50 [-50%]

it can do it.

Your math is wrong.

370cc = Original
740cc = New

Formula to calculate percentage increase is [(New - Original)/Original] x 100 = % increase.

[(740-370)/370] x100 = 100% increase, not 50%

Use this for easy way to calculate % increase. http://www.marshu.com/articles/calculate-percentage-increase-decrease-percent-calculator.php
50% increase of 370cc=555c.

[mikeroy420]

370cc/740cc = 0.5 :: 0.5 - 1 = -.50 [-50%]

it can do it.

Cody's hardly ever wrong. He knows his shit.

Cool you got it to work though, I was told and the formula shows safc wouldn't control 740cc injectors.

[Ariel305]

Yeah the highest for a safc2 are 550cc.

My setup is

Sr blacktop
T3t04e 56 trim 35mm wg
Z32 maf
Dwerks 550cc
Fmic
3" dualtip

And a safc2 i havent tuned it yet

[BlackZenkiS14]

So did I do something wrong? Because my car drives around and idles perfect lol

[Ariel305]

No u didnt do nothing wrong but if u want to tune with a safc u have to get 550cc thats the highest it will tune.

[BlackZenkiS14]

I know you guys keep saying that, but thus far, my shit works.

has anyone actually tried it, and been unsuccessful? We can all read stuff online and retell it.

[Ariel305]

Yes my buddy was had a ka tuned with a safc with 640cc i think and he was racing and when he trew 5 gear he blew up the engine cuz they could tuned it all the way. You do what you want and what you think is better for your engine i dont go with a rom tune right now cuz im broke right now but thats the best.

[jr_ss]

Tuning with an SAFC in itself is sketchy, but pushing the limits of the controller is worse. I'd keep a sharp eye on things if I were you. So far it's working, which is great. But I'd get a better system to control your fuel asap.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yes my buddy was had a ka tuned with a safc with 640cc i think and he was racing and when he trew 5 gear he blew up the engine cuz they could tuned it all the way.

That doesnt sound like anything that was caused by an SAFC lol, sounds like he overrevved 5th gear...wtf lol

Yea, I would like to get a PFC, but for now budgets are very limited. the limits of the SAFC2 controller arent being pushed at all under load or throttle, its at -30% for just LOW THROTTLE driving, normal driving to the store kinda stuff.

Nothing is being compromised under load at all. I might look at getting a ROM tune I guess too.

[jr_ss]

Look into Nistune software... There are plenty of examples out there with guys making really good power while still retaining all factory functions. It's cheaper than a PFC or a full standalone too. Goodluck either way man.

[Ariel305]

No they couldnt tuned him for 5th gear cuz of the injectors thats why he blow it.

[codyace]

Your math is wrong.
Formula to calculate percentage increase is [(New - Original)/Original] x 100 = % increase.

[(740-370)/370] x100 = 100% increase, not 50%

Thanks for posting for me haha. Yea I know first hand from a few years back about the limits of an SAFC and it's fuel control...we had a turbo Tiburon when they just came out with the body style before last...and at the point in time (was it 03 IIRC??) there asn't much out there for tuning. Well we had the SAFC working on big injectors however with logging it into boost, it just didn't keep up (or with rpm)...tha's when we learned how to determine the 50 difference.

I always took the factory percentage (370) and simply multiplied it by 1.50 to get 50 percent increase ontop of the 370 (555cc)

So did I do something wrong? Because my car drives around and idles perfect lol

It will idle just fine as the injectors are at such low cycle it makes no difference...same with out o fboost low rpm driving.

Honestly you'r best option would be to go with a JWT or Enthalpy ROM or tunable setup.

[waxball88]

No they couldnt tuned him for 5th gear cuz of the injectors thats why he blow it.
It sounds like your buddy thought the SAFC was an end all tuning device. It doesn't control timing and he detonated at high RPMs. With an SAFC, yeah you can "tune" a car but it is no substitute for a proper tune, and it will catch up to you. Hell my friend ran 15psi (to4e) on his built honda for 12k before he blew it up racing rev'ing to something like 8k( I was in the car, AEM wideband was spot on for afrs). Running an safc tune the whole time and 15psi the whole time.

At least with the SR it is an engine that comes from the factory with a turbo so it has some form of timing retarding so it isn't "as" dangerous as KA.

[Aoshi112]

Thanks for posting for me haha. Yea I know first hand from a few years back about the limits of an SAFC and it's fuel control...we had a turbo Tiburon when they just came out with the body style before last...and at the point in time (was it 03 IIRC??) there asn't much out there for tuning. Well we had the SAFC working on big injectors however with logging it into boost, it just didn't keep up (or with rpm)...tha's when we learned how to determine the 50 difference.

I always took the factory percentage (370) and simply multiplied it by 1.50 to get 50 percent increase ontop of the 370 (555cc)

.


I used to be a math tutor so seeing bad math just really annoys me. :wiggle:

[Kingtal0n]

when using the oem computer, there is a very low timing dip around peak torque, especially for s13 engines, and as you adjust the SAFC you move this timing dip to the wrong spot, now you've adjusted the airflow to make the computer think that instead of xxpsi you have far less, so now you have more timing than you should, even if fueling is correct.

most of the time, the knock sensor will not indicate a problem. instead, you begin finding flakes of aluminum on your spark plugs, and the HG may pop, but usually a ring fails first on the OEM sr20 engines.

Get that PFC, no sense in using a SAFC with a stock turbocharger- you are adding a level of complexity that is unnecessary. :drama:

[Garber]

your ecu will add timing because the safc2 will make it think it is running lean. bad idea. spend the $300 and get a rom tune

[nj-finest]

I know you guys keep saying that, but thus far, my shit works.

has anyone actually tried it, and been unsuccessful? We can all read stuff online and retell it.

Yo klye how did u tune it for ilde? I have an safc with 740cc n z32 maf with 3071 n ran fine but Ive change it a lot since n now it's all fcked up shah. Help!

[jr_ss]

Dude fried his motor running that piece if garbage, you'll do the same, just a matter of time. Quit being a cheap ass and buy a real tuneable engine management system...

[Def]

No way an S-AFC will push a set of 740 cc injectors anywhere above 50% duty cycle.

You'd be needing something like 12-14 degrees of timing and instead you'd have around 20+.

The stock timing maps are also complete garbage anyway. I had knock on track just running 8 psi on a T25 and a FMIC and 93 octane. It was HORRENDOUS on a SMIC. I can't imagine actually going MORE advanced at even more boost and airflow than stock and the engine holding together long.

Driving down to the grocery store to get some milk for your mom is completely different than laying into high boost for a while.

[s14fbs]

hahahah epic

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea. I hate to post this, but don't do it. In order to control teh 740's on the SAFC, it fucks with the timing and detonates it like crazy.

I lost a completely BUILT motor, about 4k worth of build, because I was too cheap to even get a JWT ECU. My fully built motor literally detonated itself to pieces to where the head was completely unuseable, and the block would need to be sleeved.

:(

I have learned alot in the past year. And there is much more to tuning than A/F ratio :( It only cost me 4k to figure it out.

[jr_ss]

Atleast you didn't give up and learned something rather than making the same mistake.

[GroundPerformance]

Wow. Built motor on SAFC and 740cc. You must have some crazy timing up top considering how much you have to decrease on the SAFC to compensate for such large injectors. Lesson learned here is simple. SAFC is ok for some small fine tuning and MAF changes. THe more you decrease the more ECU thinks that you have way less load and bumps up timing. This equals to KABOOMMmnn later on.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Wow. Built motor on SAFC and 740cc. You must have some crazy timing up top considering how much you have to decrease on the SAFC to compensate for such large injectors. Lesson learned here is simple. SAFC is ok for some small fine tuning and MAF changes. THe more you decrease the more ECU thinks that you have way less load and bumps up timing. This equals to KABOOMMmnn later on.

Yep. Exactly. :(