Anyone used - STANCE subframe conversion bushing

[huffandpuff00]

Im getting a s14 subframe tomorrow and need to buy conversion bushing as the s14 SF is wider than the s13. I was looking at the SPL ones because i thought they were the only US company(easy to get) bushing for the conversion. then I came across these.

Stance Nissan 240SX Subframe Conversion Bushing Set (http://www.frsport.com/Stance-Nissan-240SX-Subframe-Conversion-Bushing-Set_p_21165.html)
For the price these seem to be the best deal, and through FRsport they are free shipping.They look to be press in, but maybe they epoxy in like PBM ones? also they raise the subframe 10mm, so good for roll center!

Anyone using these and like them/hate them?

Are they press-in, like the SPL?

Are they epoxy-in, like PBM?

Thanks,
Zac

[KaminaSan]

Im getting a s14 subframe tomorrow and need to buy conversion bushing as the s14 SF is wider than the s13. I was looking at the SPL ones because i thought they were the only US company(easy to get) bushing for the conversion. then I came across these.

Stance Nissan 240SX Subframe Conversion Bushing Set (http://www.frsport.com/Stance-Nissan-240SX-Subframe-Conversion-Bushing-Set_p_21165.html)
For the price these seem to be the best deal, and through FRsport they are free shipping.They look to be press in, but maybe they epoxy in like PBM ones? also they raise the subframe 10mm, so good for roll center!

Anyone using these and like them/hate them?

Are they press-in, like the SPL?

Are they epoxy-in, like PBM?

Thanks,
Zac

1.)Do you daily drive your car?
If Yes move on to question 2.

2.)Do you enjoy the feeling of having your ass pounded by the feeling of every single bump, crack rock on the road? If yes: BUY these. If no: Don't do it.

Solid Aluminium/Aluminum bushings are no joke. Imagine coilovers on full stiff all the time.

[towlie]

I have them. Nice quality product. Definatly sucks for daily driving haha

[huffandpuff00]

1.)Do you daily drive your car?
If Yes move on to question 2.

2.)Do you enjoy the feeling of having your ass pounded by the feeling of every single bump, crack rock on the road? If yes: BUY these. If no: Don't do it.

Solid Aluminium/Aluminum bushings are no joke. Imagine coilovers on full stiff all the time.

I daily my s13 with the PBM solid raisers, its not the matter of ride quality. I know solid bushing are rough, im was looking for the quality of the product and how they install.

I have them. Nice quality product. Definatly sucks for daily driving haha
thanks towlie, glad to hear they are good quality. can anyone tell me how they install?(press in, epoxy in)

and yes, I have searched them too

[slider2828]

There is a DIY thread in Tech for this so search....

But its burn out rubber bushings, cut and chisel out the casing, epoxy and slide them in....

you don't need to epoxy them if you have a friend helping you, its just a pain cause if you don't, those things will try to slide out and move around while you are pusshing up the subframe which is FRUSTRATING RAWR!!!

[fakts13]

1.)Do you daily drive your car?
If Yes move on to question 2.

2.)Do you enjoy the feeling of having your ass pounded by the feeling of every single bump, crack rock on the road? If yes: BUY these. If no: Don't do it.

Solid Aluminium/Aluminum bushings are no joke. Imagine coilovers on full stiff all the time.

solid bushings aren't THAT bad. i will admit, they do make a difference, but i wouldn't go as far as saying you'd feel every single bump, crack and rock on the road. but then again, when i daily drove mine, i was in my early 20's and was probably a lot more tolerant of things like that.

[mendozasport]

i wouldnt think that you epoxy them in , remember that these are to center the SF, so if you glue them in and they dont alighn your screwed,
what i did instaling PBM's is i drilled and welded a small nut on all 4 corners and put a bolt threw it so it would press the bushings while i reinstaled the SF.....
i have seen where some guys remove the second ring and the bushing wiggles around to much, that might need to be filled in with epoxy, other than that , washer a torque to spec and thats it
as far as the product in discucion i have not used it or know of anybody that has , but would like to get feed back if you use it, they may work for AE86 /s13 subframe

[olah.inc]

no poly conversion bushes?

[huffandpuff00]

no poly conversion bushes?

I dont thin there are any poly bushing for the conversion.

AND I know how to install solid bushings....I have installed normal SPL press-in ones and PBM epoxy-in ones before. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A DIY INSTALL ON SOLID SUBFRAME BUSHINGS.

I was looking for the style these install?

1. Press-in?

2. Epoxy-in?

im assuming these are press-in...but if they move the subframe up 10mm, that means there is around 2.6mm of wiggle room between the subframe and frame rails. And if the bushing loosens up then the subframe will move.

- OEM has about 1/2"(12.6) between subframe and frame rail.
- 12.6-10mm = 2.6 wiggle room
- STANCE bushing design dont have a top lip to keep subframe from moving up if it gets loose.

if I am wrong about anything let me know....

[e1_griego]

Well the spl ones come with extra spacers to take up the extra room.

I used SPL when putting s14 subframe in my s13 a couple months ago. Worked great.

[towlie]

There is a DIY thread in Tech for this so search....

But its burn out rubber bushings, cut and chisel out the casing, epoxy and slide them in....

you don't need to epoxy them if you have a friend helping you, its just a pain cause if you don't, those things will try to slide out and move around while you are pusshing up the subframe which is FRUSTRATING RAWR!!!

This.


Hey el gribro, has that made a noticable differance in handeling? The s14 subframe, I mean.

[huffandpuff00]

This.


Hey el gribro, has that made a noticable differance in handeling? The s14 subframe, I mean.

Supposed to increase grip in the rear because of the lower arm positions.

is it harder to get the rear end out?

[towlie]

Oh right, Alex is into that auto-x shit lol

[fakts13]

I dont thin there are any poly bushing for the conversion.

AND I know how to install solid bushings....I have installed normal SPL press-in ones and PBM epoxy-in ones before. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A DIY INSTALL ON SOLID SUBFRAME BUSHINGS.

I was looking for the style these install?

1. Press-in?

2. Epoxy-in?

im assuming these are press-in...but if they move the subframe up 10mm, that means there is around 2.6mm of wiggle room between the subframe and frame rails. And if the bushing loosens up then the subframe will move.

- OEM has about 1/2"(12.6) between subframe and frame rail.
- 12.6-10mm = 2.6 wiggle room
- STANCE bushing design dont have a top lip to keep subframe from moving up if it gets loose.

if I am wrong about anything let me know....

seems like they have some "slide-in shims" to adjust the height of of the sub-frame, which i would assume get sandwiched in there when the sub-frame nuts are tightened, locking everything in place. this is what i think, looking at pictures on the spl website and reading their description of the bushings. also, the website claims that their bushing will allow the subframe to go up to 1/2" higher.

edit: i'm sorry, i just remembered you're looking at the stance bushings, not the spl bushings

[e1_griego]

Oh right, Alex is into that auto-x shit lol

blah blah

This weekend is going to be the first (autox) event I make, but I've redone the whole suspension this winter so not sure I'll be able to pinpoint anything specifically. I run rs3s and star specs so I try not to burn those off as I can't afford frequent replacements.

Yes, the spl bushings have the shims. You have to pound out the car a bit to fit the s14 subframe, just as an fyi. The hammer work becomes obvious when you're trying to reinstall.

[huffandpuff00]

blah blah

This weekend is going to be the first (autox) event I make, but I've redone the whole suspension this winter so not sure I'll be able to pinpoint anything specifically. I run rs3s and star specs so I try not to burn those off as I can't afford frequent replacements.

Yes, the spl bushings have the shims. You have to pound out the car a bit to fit the s14 subframe, just as an fyi. The hammer work becomes obvious when you're trying to reinstall.

Do you mean where the subframe hump hits the floor of the car?

Also e1_griego are you planing on doing any of the PIR driving club classes this spring? Once I just this s14 subframe in and my driftwork knuckles show up ill be going to try a couple of those out and maybe the pats acres drift if they are still doing that.

[e1_griego]

Yeah, the s14 subframe at the front has a hump whereas the s13 subframe at the front is flat. You have to clearance the car to fit it.

I did the Cascade school @ PIR last year.

Sticking to autox this year (OR SCCA, PCA, NWAA, etc) because the mortgage has killed the budget :)

btw I think we met at the Tualatin meet a few months ago. Show up this week and chat.

[towlie]

You have to pound out the car a bit to fit the s14 subframe, just as an fyi. The hammer work becomes obvious when you're trying to reinstall.

wait a minute...

Translation:
I pounded the shit out of my subframe.

I am disappoint!

you didnt take it to a shop and have them re-engineer it with custom fabricated points on the s14 subframe to make it a one stop bolt in process?

tsk tsk.

:drama:

on a more serious note, please point me in the direction of this PIR driving school

[e1_griego]

No, you move the car to fit the subframe. Pay attention now.

Cascade Sports Car Club - Driver's Training (http://www.cascadesportscarclub.org/training.asp?page=home)

[huffandpuff00]

MotorsportReg.com : Online registration management tools for driving and social events (http://www.motorsportreg.com/)
you can see what dates they have the driving the class at PIR and the cost

[towlie]

So....

I chop my springs?

Lawlz

This PIR deal looks legit.

[huffandpuff00]

I called and talked with TF about the stance bushings and they said that the 10mm lift of the subframe from the bushings is a rough estimate and will put the SF up agaisnt the chassis just like the PBM ones. Also they told me that instead of having to hammer out the tranny tunnel so the s14 SF doesnt hit, they cut around a 1/2" of the hump and welded a flat steel plate in. I decided to take that approach but take about 3/4" just to be safe...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3gn8JXD4NQ0/TY12MRO2XwI/AAAAAAAAAoU/BswEVU0cjQ8/s1600/IMG_3277.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hWw6t1ppbUk/TY12MuWHMMI/AAAAAAAAAoc/WHdw90fsEHc/s1600/IMG_3279.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S9QNXuuFa0U/TY12MzD46GI/AAAAAAAAAok/SWiGgfqwq7k/s1600/IMG_3284.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uB7HgmjIW8U/TY12NXfFJmI/AAAAAAAAAos/qdMmbgkhudU/s1600/IMG_3283.JPG

[towlie]

Are you using s13 subframe bushings?

Also don't forget to hit it with some paint to prevent rust lol

[huffandpuff00]

Are you using s13 subframe bushings?

Also don't forget to hit it with some paint to prevent rust lol

already hit it with some ACE rust stop and nope i have the stance bushings on their way.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-khgmFZKdFY4/TY2L0Io9wpI/AAAAAAAAAo0/L0KYkJ9J-kc/s320/IMG_3287.JPG

[e1_griego]

That's awesome -- considered that mid-subframe-swap but hammering the car out took about 20sec haha.

[nieko]

You realize that wasn't even going to hit right -_____-

I've had PBM risers s13 subrame = No issue.

SPL s13>s14 conversion risers = No issue.

[Def]

It does hit the chassis even with stock bushings. It's not hard to bang/pry on the chassis though.

[nieko]

Maybe when I tightened the sub frame it just pushed it up then? It must be very minimal...

[huffandpuff00]

Yeah I dont know how much it has to move up...

Either way I was bored and still have to wait for bushings, knuckles and tie rods to show up, so why not play with the welder.

I also didn't want any extra noise coming from the subframe rubbing on the chassis, now im almost guaranteed its not going to hit.

[huffandpuff00]

Bushings showed up today, look alot like pbm raisers. Im going to press them in tomorrow and post up how easily they go in.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0FL3cAW8VJc/TZGCizx6ozI/AAAAAAAAAo8/w63mS3TY4Ew/s320/IMG_3298.JPG

[huffandpuff00]

The bushings went in just fine, but seem to be a little short in comparison with my old PBM bushings. They look to be 1-2mm too short, but I doubt this should effect anything.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W-i6j-AesZI/TZLKPgLE1PI/AAAAAAAAAp8/7YruU_VO6Lk/s1600/IMG_3304.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8sMxtBbei44/TZLKQLsbbiI/AAAAAAAAAqE/bdWhV1TN5Tw/s1600/IMG_3307.JPG

[ixfxi]

You realize that wasn't even going to hit right -_____-
I've had PBM risers s13 subrame = No issue.
SPL s13>s14 conversion risers = No issue.

i agree, i too had no issues when installing my s15 subframe into my s13.... i dont recall the front hump pressing onto the underside.

plus, what subframe is pictured above? it has vibration dampers and no gussets on the arm tabs. looks slightly different than the others ive worked on.


Im getting a s14 subframe tomorrow and need to buy conversion bushing as the s14 SF is wider than the s13. I was looking at the SPL ones because i thought they were the only US company(easy to get) bushing for the conversion. then I came across these.
For the price these seem to be the best deal, and through FRsport they are free shipping.They look to be press in, but maybe they epoxy in like PBM ones? also they raise the subframe 10mm, so good for roll center!
Anyone using these and like them/hate them?

yes, i purchased those TF piece of shit solid inserts (offset) before they were marketed as STANCE and anodized gold. you press them in.

my complaint is that they did not then, and still do not come with any spacers or rubber isolators, which is why i give props to SPL because they not only take the time to build their products, but build them right. when i called TF they blatantly told me they just copied some japanese company's design and they do not have the ability to cut spacer inserts. thanks guys, thanks for copying a product but not spending the extra 15 minutes of R&D to cut some simple spacers.

oh, and the SPL bushings were cheaper, and gave you more for your money. fuck, total bummer

ps: since my car doesnt work i cant say for sure, but i dont expect insane amounts of NVH with solid subframe inserts. I figure the front cross member is directly bolted onto the chassis, why not the rear subframe. the bushings isolate suspension but mostly diff noise, and I am running nismo hard rubber bushings for the diff. so i should have some isolation (wheras the s13 had the diff solid bolt on). either way, i dont expect insanity from a solid subframe setup. i think the main reason for OE using subframe rubber bushings is to allow the subframe to flex, giving the rear a softer and more compliant ride.

[Conrad 2NR]

i agree, i too had no issues when installing my s15 subframe into my s13.... i dont recall the front hump pressing onto the underside.

plus, what subframe is pictured above? it has vibration dampers and no gussets on the arm tabs. looks slightly different than the others ive worked on.




yes, i purchased those TF piece of shit solid inserts (offset) before they were marketed as STANCE and anodized gold. you press them in.

my complaint is that they did not then, and still do not come with any spacers or rubber isolators, which is why i give props to SPL because they not only take the time to build their products, but build them right. when i called TF they blatantly told me they just copied some japanese company's design and they do not have the ability to cut spacer inserts. thanks guys, thanks for copying a product but not spending the extra 15 minutes of R&D to cut some simple spacers.

oh, and the SPL bushings were cheaper, and gave you more for your money. fuck, total bummer

ps: since my car doesnt work i cant say for sure, but i dont expect insane amounts of NVH with solid subframe inserts. I figure the front cross member is directly bolted onto the chassis, why not the rear subframe. the bushings isolate suspension but mostly diff noise, and I am running nismo hard rubber bushings for the diff. so i should have some isolation (wheras the s13 had the diff solid bolt on). either way, i dont expect insanity from a solid subframe setup. i think the main reason for OE using subframe rubber bushings is to allow the subframe to flex, giving the rear a softer and more compliant ride.

I love this guy. Seriously, thank you.

[huffandpuff00]

^What are you thanking him for?

The subframe is s14 and where did you find SPL conversion bushing for cheaper? I paid $125 shipped for the Stance ones.

[Croustibat]

Solid Aluminium/Aluminum bushings are no joke. Imagine coilovers on full stiff all the time.

When you dont know about something, dont just repeat what you read on the internet; just shut up. Please.

Solid rear subframe bushing is ok, you just hear your diff whinning a bit more, nothing else...

It has nothing to do with ENGINE and box solid bushing, which makes the car shakes quite a lot.

[Conrad 2NR]

^What are you thanking him for?

A lil' off topic but...

Though he may appear arrogant at times his posts constantly suggest that he believes in quality and getting it right the first time...something I could appreciate since I'd like to avoid costly mistakes.



The subframe is s14 and where did you find SPL conversion bushing for cheaper? I paid $125 shipped for the Stance ones.

I believe his cheaper comment was in comparison to TF piece of shit solid inserts

[Om1kron]

A lil' off topic but...

Though he may appear arrogant at times his posts constantly suggest that he believes in quality and getting it right the first time...something I could appreciate since I'd like to avoid costly mistakes.

It's okay I was actually waiting for mike to flame him, which he most likely will still do granted it's been cleared up. In a nutshell What mike is saying is if you want to go solid bushing s14 to s13 conversion buy the SPL setup. It may be slightly more expensive.

BUT when you're pulling something like a subframe it's not like changing your oil filter, it's not something you want to pull off and put back on to get something right, and stance and ebay and all of those other shit copy products we get all elitist over are recommended for a reason.

The stance ones provide a solid mount but if you want to close the gasp they leave there are no stance shims to allow you to adjust the height of the subframe to your liking as the SPL kit does. So your problem with horizontal movement on the subframe may be gone, you will still have some vertical play without the shims. :duh:

Which kind of defeats the purpose of making the subframe SOLID back there.

[ixfxi]

the people that thank me are usually people that use their brain on a daily basis.

i think companies that just re-sell shit suck balls. the companies that have value are the ones that have the machines/manpower/knowledge to actually fabricate a product, and make immediate changes and improvements to their product. the fact, and absolute fact, that i was told over the phone by TF "sorry we copied some japanese companies design" is a joke, and when i asked "can you guys just manufacture some spacers to space the subframe" their answer was "no."

cool. great. awesome! its shit like this that holds back a project. my car is still unfinished and no, i am not putting the blame on that... because thats just one piece of my project's puzzle. but when you see that SPL comes out with a fully finished product AND that they have the ability to machine all this shit (probably in house), then my hat goes off to that company and i fully regret giving my money to the lesser company.

[huffandpuff00]

All i care about is that the stance ones worked out great for me and my conversion, while costing less. If it were more important parts like suspension arms I would agree with you, but this is a cylinder of aluminum. I don't care to fine tune my subframe. I just wanted it up as far as it could go.

@Om1kron. I don't have any vertical play at all. The subframe sits against the frame rails. I put a 1/4" steel spacer to spread the nuts pressure out and torqued the nut down.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vrqoQKdktvM/T5CLQbdHPxI/AAAAAAAABLk/axGg1O0M_-0/s1600/photo%2B1-796537.JPG

[VinceDude]

Do you guys know if the solid risers sold by pbm will work for a s14 SF conversion into an s13 chassis? I noticed the stance ones he got had an offset to them. I just ordered some pbm solid risers but i'm trying to do a subframe conversion. I was messaging someone from the company on fb and they told me I should get them??? On the pics they don't look to be offset. Will the damn bolts line up?!

[DJ-of-E]

solid bushings aren't THAT bad. i will admit, they do make a difference, but i wouldn't go as far as saying you'd feel every single bump, crack and rock on the road. but then again, when i daily drove mine, i was in my early 20's and was probably a lot more tolerant of things like that.

haha, when I was in my early 20s, it wasn't too bad. Now that I'm 30, I couldn't stand daily drying with it and track setup. Even an hour drive seems "exhausting" T_T Image my drivers to buttonwillow.

[NismoPlsr]

Do you guys know if the solid risers sold by pbm will work for a s14 SF conversion into an s13 chassis? I noticed the stance ones he got had an offset to them. I just ordered some pbm solid risers but i'm trying to do a subframe conversion. I was messaging someone from the company on fb and they told me I should get them??? On the pics they don't look to be offset. Will the damn bolts line up?!

You need the offset conversion bushings, PBM does NOT sell these. Some people get away with the conversion when using factory bushings because the rubber will deform enough to make the difference. You wont get the aluminum to do this.

[VinceDude]

You need the offset conversion bushings, PBM does NOT sell these. Some people get away with the conversion when using factory bushings because the rubber will deform enough to make the difference. You wont get the aluminum to do this.
i thought so. Thanks!

[s13suckadrift]

Did you have to cut the collar out of the subframe to put these in?

[huffandpuff00]

Yes.....!!!!!

[VinceDude]

has anyone tried taking these bushings out? I can press the front 2 easily but I can't mount up a set up to press the rear 2 out. I need to adjust them cause their offset isn't matching with my s13 chassis studs. I'm going to try heating them up and hammering them out and pressing them back in again.