E85 thread

[slideslidegnarslide]

This should be strictly e85 talk. If you are considering e85 post your questions here. I know there's alot of good info to be found and I have a few questions my self.



Any way, it's a good inexpensive alternative to race fuel and also green! Discuss.




Couple questions I have.

How to size injectors? I'm aiming for 500 hp maybe a little less on an online six? And I also read that it is not corrosive to rubber? Can any one clear that up?

[Dj Ryderz]

I also planing the switch to e85 on my sr20. I was looking at Injector dynamics 1000cc but I wonder if they can hold 400whp ???

[zoomswimmer]

At our shop, sell injector dynamics and most of the cars we tune are running E85.

On our Mustang Dyne, we see Subarus hit high 300 horsepower (to the wheels) with 1000cc injectors and E85.

[Def]

You need 25% more injector for the same air fuel ratio at the same air as with E10. That's all you need to know for injector sizing.

[Bbsalexaz]

You need 25% more injector for the same air fuel ratio at the same air as with E10. That's all you need to know for injector sizing.


Thats a little different then what I've seen... I've always seen people go 40% larger.


Heres the formula....
Horsepower to injector size, so for 100whp you need 270cc injectors(hypothetical). So when converting to ethanol, you need 40% more inector. So take injector size(x) and multiply it by 1.4(140%). That will give you the size injector you need to make sure your covered.


In this instance:

270 X 1.4 = 378.

So 370cc's would be be a tad short for 140%... about 3% off.

For a 300zx the injector sizing is nearly proportional to whp. 370cc injectors are good till 350whp.

So ethanol on a TTZ with annodized rails(crucial) pushing 350whp.

370 X 1.4 = 490cc. So nismo 555 injectors would suffice.




More to it that just this, the main reason for the fuel consumtion is because of timing you can throw at the motor and force the car to make more power due to better maps.



Hope this helps.

[s13 loverr]

I was searching into e85 and there hasn't been a thread like this in a bit. A lot of the threads were from years ago and there was/is? lots of controversy with e85. So, are there any long term affects to the engine? and how much higher compression can you run efficiently? With the sleeves being iron correct me if I'm wrong wouldn't the e85 corrode away the sleeves?

[s15specR]

I also planing the switch to e85 on my sr20. I was looking at Injector dynamics 1000cc but I wonder if they can hold 400whp ???

I'm right at 600whp and using the ID1000's on E85.


Fuel Setup:
Injector Dynamics ID-1000cc
Greddy Fuel Rail
Aeromotive FPR
Intank Walbro Pump
Inline Bosch 044
Aeromotive Inline Filter
All Stainless Lines from tank.



I was searching into e85 and there hasn't been a thread like this in a bit. A lot of the threads were from years ago and there was/is? lots of controversy with e85. So, are there any long term affects to the engine? and how much higher compression can you run efficiently? With the sleeves being iron correct me if I'm wrong wouldn't the e85 corrode away the sleeves?

There's a lot of myths out there, for some accurate answers PM 4x4le, he's been using it for years with no problems.

[Dj Ryderz]

I'm right at 600whp and using the ID1000's on E85.


Fuel Setup:
Injector Dynamics ID-1000cc
Greddy Fuel Rail
Aeromotive FPR
Intank Walbro Pump
Inline Bosch 044
Aeromotive Inline Filter
All Stainless Lines from tank.


Hoo sweet thanks for the info. I Know the ID's flow 1000cc at 3bar. Are you running higher pressure for getting that 600whp?

[slow92]

I'm right at 600whp and using the ID1000's on E85.


Fuel Setup:
Injector Dynamics ID-1000cc
Greddy Fuel Rail
Aeromotive FPR
Intank Walbro Pump
Inline Bosch 044
Aeromotive Inline Filter
All Stainless Lines from tank.





There's a lot of myths out there, for some accurate answers PM 4x4le, he's been using it for years with no problems.

I am curious too. What is your injector duty cylce? Is there room to grow?

[|BOOST|]

I'm right at 600whp and using the ID1000's on E85.


Fuel Setup:
Injector Dynamics ID-1000cc
Greddy Fuel Rail
Aeromotive FPR
Intank Walbro Pump
Inline Bosch 044
Aeromotive Inline Filter
All Stainless Lines from tank.



DAMN. SR20DET? built bottom end? how much boost are you running and on what turbo?.. thanks for the info!

[Captain!]

E85 is awesome. One of the cars I helped build is using 1000 cc rc engineering injectors on a ka-t and is putting down 436 whp with lots of room to grow. The best part about this fuel is it realtive cool burn meaning you can run a much leaner mixture.

A good estimation for injector sizing is to add a third. This comes from the fact that e85 has about 3/4 the energy density as normal gas. So if you are using 600cc injectors you will need 800cc injectors to supply the necessary fuel. Most common injector size is 1000cc just because they are easy to find.

Rc engineering has some great injectors and due to their design allow you to keep a realatively low idle rpm.

Just my 2 cents.

[anfitch2k5]

s15specr, what size in tank walbro pump are you runnin?

[slideslidegnarslide]

Is it actually corossive to rubber?

[onehundredoctane]

I'm right at 600whp and using the ID1000's on E85.


Fuel Setup:
Injector Dynamics ID-1000cc
Greddy Fuel Rail
Aeromotive FPR
Intank Walbro Pump
Inline Bosch 044
Aeromotive Inline Filter
All Stainless Lines from tank.


Pics of this set up? Sounds like my set up minus the stainless lines.

[Def]

Thats a little different then what I've seen... I've always seen people go 40% larger.


Heres the formula....
Horsepower to injector size, so for 100whp you need 270cc injectors(hypothetical). So when converting to ethanol, you need 40% more inector. So take injector size(x) and multiply it by 1.4(140%). That will give you the size injector you need to make sure your covered.


In this instance:

270 X 1.4 = 378.

So 370cc's would be be a tad short for 140%... about 3% off.

For a 300zx the injector sizing is nearly proportional to whp. 370cc injectors are good till 350whp.

So ethanol on a TTZ with annodized rails(crucial) pushing 350whp.

370 X 1.4 = 490cc. So nismo 555 injectors would suffice.




More to it that just this, the main reason for the fuel consumtion is because of timing you can throw at the motor and force the car to make more power due to better maps.



Hope this helps.

I've tuned my car on E85 with a wideband for hours and hours - it's 25%. That gave EXACTLY the same lambda with the same fuel map.

[Brentbohn]

Are there any how to's for a stock ka24de and if there is any potential in doing so?

[s15specR]

Pics of this set up? Sounds like my set up minus the stainless lines.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/engine2_web.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/IMG_2587.jpg

[|BOOST|]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/engine2_web.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/IMG_2587.jpg

ZOMG:wackit:.

[UNITEDMASTER]

Is it actually corossive to rubber?

Yes it will eventually kill rubber.

Any of you dudes runing straight ethonol,or brewing your own

From my research 1000cc inj is a good/decent start piont ,but there is way to many variables from set up to set up to be specific. But I would let duty cycle VS AFR be the judge.

[surfpac]

..The best part about this fuel is it realtive cool burn meaning you can run a much leaner mixture.

Why? you need to run it richer in boost. Much richer so you get more energy density. If you're just cruising, yes, but not when you boosting.

Stoichiometric ratio for regular unleaded gasoline is 14.7:1, while 9.7:1 for E85

So when you run a richer ratio for E85 you get more energy, hence more power, but you use more fuel. Methanol you use even more fuel but you cram even more energy, hence even more fuel.

[4x4le]

hey Subash, thanks for throwing me out there. Someone pm'd me and directed me to this thread and Im greatfull of every discussion we have on any forum about e85.
Im subscribing as I will be hopefully be posting in this thread some but I just dont have the time right now.

I never noticed how similar our bays are, and will be soon very similar when I go topmount and get it back together.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/Mobile%20Uploads/9477eb39.jpg




I would also like to add that the internals of this engine that were run on e85 for almost their entire life are pictured in the link in my sig. There is a description of them ect and why they are out of the engine. Im not bringing this up to advertise them, but to show you how clean e85 can keep your engine inside and Im sure all of you can realize how much this can help the performance and longitivity of your engines (as long as your oil system dont take a dump on you).

Oh well, bigger and better things are panning out for my sr.

[NinjamasterRigo]

So my question is what size injectors will I need doing 800hp on a 300zx if I want to run two maps one for e85 and another for pump gas when I can't get to an e85 station what about fuel rail and pump?

[UNITEDMASTER]

Why? you need to run it richer in boost. Much richer so you get more energy density. If you're just cruising, yes, but not when you boosting.

Stoichiometric ratio for regular unleaded gasoline is 14.7:1, while 9.7:1 for E85

So when you run a richer ratio for E85 you get more energy, hence more power, but you use more fuel. Methanol you use even more fuel but you cram even more energy, hence even more fuel.

Based on the cool burning statement.
I wold like to add ,that e85 allows you to throw a bit more timing at the motor also,with all other factors being the same across the board.

[4x4le]

Why? you need to run it richer in boost. Much richer so you get more energy density. If you're just cruising, yes, but not when you boosting.

Stoichiometric ratio for regular unleaded gasoline is 14.7:1, while 9.7:1 for E85

So when you run a richer ratio for E85 you get more energy, hence more power, but you use more fuel. Methanol you use even more fuel but you cram even more energy, hence even more fuel.

Im not sure wether i agree totally with you or disagree with you because of the way you said it.

You in fact can run and should run a leaner mixture with e85 than you would gas. Lets not go get confused with how they have different stoich afrs, lets just look at lambida. Youll run a leaner lambida with e85 than you would gas.

Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk

[NinjamasterRigo]

This is a noob question but why upgrade injectors if u r gona run a leaner mixture on e85

[4x4le]

This is a noob question but why upgrade injectors if u r gona run a leaner mixture on e85
Because your still using more fuel. Im on my phone so i cant provide much as far as linking you somewhere, but look up afrs vs lambidia for different fuels and it will hopefully paint a picture for you.


Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk

[surfpac]

Im not sure wether i agree totally with you or disagree with you because of the way you said it.

You in fact can run and should run a leaner mixture with e85 than you would gas. Lets not go get confused with how they have different stoich afrs, lets just look at lambida. Youll run a leaner lambida with e85 than you would gas.

Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk

K, I may have said it wrong but you have to run more fuel when running alcohol (E85, methanol) even much more for nitro methane. Really, AFR's doesn't have anything to do with it? Sure it does, you need to pack in more fuel to get a larger energy density, hence more power.

[surfpac]

Hey, now that I think about it more you're correct ,the lambda value would be slightly leaner but the AFR's with E85 are much denser than petrol gas.

[slideslidegnarslide]

Stoich on e85 is like 9:1

[4x4le]

Really, AFR's doesn't have anything to do with it? Sure it does, you.......

I have a major problem with this. You quote my post and reply with this, but your arguing against a statement I never made.
I never said afrs dont have anything to do with it, its just more aproperate to look at lambida when dealing with e85. And untill you understand this statement you have no business tuning anything, let alone an engine running e85.

Is 10:1 rich or lean? Well it depends if your talking about gas or e85. Most people wouldnt run a gas engine that rich at full boost. At the same time that would be a little lean for e85 to even idle allthough it can idle at that air fuel ratio.
14.7:1=1 lambida for gas and 9.67:1=1 lambida for e85
But it isnt aproprate to call the e85 mixture more rich because they are both stoich.



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[4x4le]

Hey, now that I think about it more you're correct ,the lambda value would be slightly leaner but the AFR's with E85 are much denser than petrol gas.

Yes. I didnt see this post until i replied to the last one. Your running a ton more fuel. And everyone needs to remember that after stoich, none of the other fuel even burns because there isnt any oxygen to burn it. It is there for internal cooling wether its gas, e85, or lpg.

If you leave your wideband calabrated for gas (which allot of people do when running e85 because allot of the gauges have trouble reading out in the 10:1-6:1 range and because lambida your dealing with such small numbers that at a glance are hard to take in) i usually try to target around a 12.5:1 on the gauge although that is not really the afr.

Im sure this will cause more confusion with other people but we go through this everytime an e85 thread comes around.

Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk

[slideslidegnarslide]

i understand.but the information thats in this thread is based on a lot of what people "heard" half the people dont know what they are talking about. I wouldn't mind if this thread stayed educational. questions should be posted, of course. They should be answered by either people who have tuned with e85 and or run e85 in their car. Guy above me your spot on. I understand what your are talking about.

[SuicidnS13]

so what would I need for a basic 400whp fuel setup. Also are the top feed injectors recommended over the typical sidefeeds?

walbro, 750's and a power fc plus stainless feed and return lines?

[4x4le]

so what would I need for a basic 400whp fuel setup. Also are the top feed injectors recommended over the typical sidefeeds?

walbro, 750's and a power fc plus stainless feed and return lines?

Rubber lines are fine really. Im going to go into more detail when i have time to concentrate on this topic but just an in tank walbro is not going to be enough usually, as well 750cc injectors are too small for that much power unless you run a 4bar setup which i highly recommend. 4bar setup deems your in tank pump no good alone.

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[DreEzed]

What kind of fuel setups are you guys running?

Also whats the best fuel pump to use and FPR?

[surfpac]

Yes. I didnt see this post until i replied to the last one. Your running a ton more fuel. And everyone needs to remember that after stoich, none of the other fuel even burns because there isnt any oxygen to burn it. It is there for internal cooling wether its gas, e85, or lpg.

If you leave your wideband calabrated for gas (which allot of people do when running e85 because allot of the gauges have trouble reading out in the 10:1-6:1 range and because lambida your dealing with such small numbers that at a glance are hard to take in) i usually try to target around a 12.5:1 on the gauge although that is not really the afr.

Im sure this will cause more confusion with other people but we go through this everytime an e85 thread comes around.



Hey, no problem dude, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers and I can definitely use some pointers from an E85 expert, as yourself.

[dj_hype]

I've been running E85 in my RB25 for almost 3 years now. Never had any issues. Made 477 at the wheels with the following setup.

Walbro
RC 750cc
JGY Top Feed
3076R
FReddy Intake Manifold
Q45 TB
Pump E85
MAP ECU

Dropped the boost down and sitting happy now at 410 because I didn't trust the boost levels I was running for 477 on a 17 year old motor.

[slideslidegnarslide]

^^^^ exactly what i was looking for

[4x4le]

So here is some things I can think of right now.


I prefer a 4 bar fuel setup with e85. Since your running so much more fuel having higher pressure behind it allows it to atomize better. I feel that it atomizes great regardless on a hot engine but that isnt going to help you when you cant get it started or to stay running on a cold day. Another great thing about a 4 bar setup is it will make your injectors just about the right percentage bigger that e85 requires in fuel demand to stay at the proper ratios vs gas. This means that your gas tune should "run" your engine on e85 although not everything will be perfect and a tune needs to be in order. This also will help you with deciding on what injector size you need.
While were on the subject of injectors there are 2 I like. I have been running msd top feeds. 72lb/hr or 756cc ones to be exact. They are fine and I already had them and have not had any issues with them so no complaints here but If I had to purchase some for whatever reason I would go with bosch topfeeds just to to their performance specs and their well known to work great with e85.
Now for a 4 bar fuel setup to work you cannot rely on your in tank walbro 255lph pump. I wont get into the details right now but just take my word on it for now. Instead of linking you to another forum I have explained all of this and described my fueling setup I will carry the information over here sometime today or tomorrow. I am running a 255lph in tank and a 255lph hp inline after the fuel filter and this yeilds enough pressure and flow for my setup. I dont know exactly where it would start to not be enough but you could always use a similar setup with a walbro 290lph or a bosch 044.

Now I want to stress that a big NO NO is atmospheric pcv. PLEASE re rout your valve cover breather back to your turbo inlet or intake if your n/a. If you really cannot do this for whatever reason see about PROPERLY routing it to your exhaust stream or even routing it out of your cowl or hood or fender vents. The reason behind this is your crank case gasses will be highly flammable when running e85 (ask me how I know). One benefit to routing it back to your intake instead of through the exhaust or whatever is your wasting less fuel because it is being re consumed by your engine and you dont have to tune extra fuel in. The reason the crank case vapor is flammable is due to blow by (which every engine has and why you have pcv). E85 has a very low boiling point so as soon as it leaves your injector and hits your hot intake manifold, head, valve and combustion chamber it is a vapor full of energy (steam). It mixes with the air better than a wet gas vapor. When the piston comes up some of the vapors slip past the rings and enter the crank case. Now gas does this too but gas stays in your oil, e85 stays a vapor and is expelled through your pcv.
A suggestion on re routing it back to your intake is I believe it can cause you trouble if your using a blow through maf. You will be re meetering air already meetered air. You will most likely be able to over come this with tuning but it could max out your maf earlier so just keep it in mind.
One side note is if your dipstick fits loosely you may want to replace it or replace the oring.

[4x4le]

Now this is a writeup I did on a dual pump install on a s13. My reason behind it was for my e85 needs but I worded things in a way that it will be familiar for anyone still using gas or a 3 bar setup. Just keep this in mind when reading it.

This is good for anyone running more than 16.5 lbs on a 3 bar fuel setup with a walbro 255lph pump or a 4 bar setup.

Many people think they will be just fine with the in tank version of the walbro 255lph pump. The truth is if your running stock 3.0 bar fuel pressure and anything more than 16.5 lbs of boost you should start considering running dual pump as well.
If your running a 4.0 setup don't even think about doing that on a walbro in tank pump. The reasoning behind this is because the in-tank walbro 255lph pump has a safety crack pressure starting at 60psi, and then it strikes again even worse at 80psi. If you were to look at pump dynos for the 2 pumps its clear to tell the in-line pump is more of a hoss than the in tank.


Here is a picture of some of the items you will need.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/00.jpg

You will need a relay that can handle at least 20A. You will need wire. You will need 2 fuses, one a 20A and you can get away with a 5-10A. You ill also need the pump and the install kit. Some fuel line is a good idea too. Instead of just reusing the old lines, just replace them. I had replaced the line to my pump and from my pump to the fuel pressure sending unit and the line I didn't even touch the line coming off my fuel pressure sensor going into the rail and I discovered a leak in that line from just moving that line around after installing the extra pump so I then replaced that too.




First:
Run a wire from under your hood all the way back to your trunk or hatch.
You will need to go through your fire wall. You may already have a place you use to run wires through (as I did) or you will need to make a new spot.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/1.jpg

I have very limited interior in my car and I didn't want a wire exposed that can get damaged so I found places to hide the wire all the way back. You can pull back your carpet and hide it under there or pull it back even further and run it through the rail along your door as I did. The holes that are punched along it will allow you to stick your fingers in there to guide the wire back.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/2.jpg

The wire will come out behind your passenger seat. There is a small hole that is taped up right under your speaker partial shelf that you can feed the wire through.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/3.jpg

Here it is coming into my trunk.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/4.jpg

Dont just leave it loose because items in your trunk can damage the wire and cause your second pump to shut off or for the wire to short. Rout the wire into the hole along your trunk.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/5.jpg

You will be able to easily grab it and pull it out through here. Take this time to throw an in-line fuse on it here. 5-10A will be best here.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/6.jpg

A simple Y wire connector will be suitable here because of the ease of them and since your not carrying much current through this wire. Your just going to be using it as a switch to turn on a relay. The wires that run down to your pump will need to be accessed. You will want to check out which wire turns on when your pump is on. Get a test light or multimeter and find out which wires turn on with the key, but more specifically find out which wire turns the pump on. Have someone turn the key, you will hear the pump prime. When you find the wire that shuts the light off when the pump is done priming you have your wire. On my 91 S13 it is the black wire with the yellow stripe.
Now before you crimp the Y connector to the pump wire, start the engine and then pull the 10A fuel pump fuse under the hood and let the car die. This will cause the engine to run out of fuel reducing the pressure in the lines so you don't get sprayed when you un-clamp the first line. Set that fuse aside so no power is going to the pump while you work. Crimp the wire on.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/7.jpg


Your wire is ran now. Time to move onto the next step.

Second:
Now its time to partially assemble your pump if necessary. Since I'm using a walbro 255lph HP pump I will go through those steps. Slip the insulator over the pump. Put the feed and output fittings on the pump. Make sure to use the brass seal between the pump and the fittings. The size wrench you need to use on the fittings is 5/8".
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/8.jpg

Next take wire and crimp the terminals on the ends. Place those on the terminals on the top of the pump. The size wrench I used on those nuts was an 8mm. I'm sure it was most likely a standard size but 8mm worked perfect and I have a limited amount of standard tools.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/9.jpg

Third:
Its time to start planning whats going on under the hood. Where your going to run wires and where your going to mount components.
Try to find a suitable location for the pump. I found a spot on the passenger side strut tower that was already threaded. I used a M6-1.0x16mm bolt and it was the perfect length. I also ended up finding that was was a good ground and that allowed for a short ground wire so I used that location as a ground later on. Just cut the wire on the ground side of your pump long enough to reach that mounting location and crimp on a terminal eye.
Now pay attention that the pumps mounting bracket is not closed up properly yet. Until your done with the project you may need to take the pump out to make putting the lines on easier along with other things. When using this location I would recommend having the positive terminal on the pump always stick up, it will make it less likely to ground out. I'm later on going to come up with something better than electric tape to protect the positive terminal from grounding out.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/10.jpg

Now find somewhere for your relay. I found a great spot by the coolant overflow tank, between it and the battery tray.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/11.jpg

Fourth step:
Now you need to replace your fuel lines. Take the line off of the output of your fuel filter and take the line off your rail. Put the new line on the back of your rail and plug it into the output of your new pump. Make sure there are no kinks in the line and that they wont occur easily from small movements and vibrations. Use clamps to secure those lines. Do the same from your fuel filter to the input on your new pump. Here are some (dark) pictures to show but this is pretty self explanatory.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/12.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/13.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/14.jpg


Step five:
Complete your wiring. As I have mentioned before I used the pump mounting location as the pump ground. You still need to wire up your relay in order to get everything to come alive.
Take a 20A in-line fuse and crimp a terminal eye on one end of it and a insulated female connector on the other end. Connect the eye terminal to the + post on the battery and plug the other end on the relay in the location that is supposed to accept full time power. Now take a section of wire and crimp a terminal eye on one end and a insulated female connector on the other. Plug the female connector to the relays ground and find a ground close to the relay. In my case the battery ground was the closest and easiest ground to use therefore I did. Now take the wire you ran from under the hood all the way back to the the fuel pump wire in the trunk and crimp a insulated female connector on that as well. Plug it into the switch post on the relay. Lastly crimp a insulated female connector on the + wire from the new fuel pump and plug that on the output spot on the relay.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/140.jpg

Step six:
Put the 10A fuel pump fuse back in the fuse box.
Now everything should be fully operational. Have someone get in and prime the pumps with the key while you watch for leaks. You should hear both pumps running and you will also probably hear air being pushed out of the lines. Have the person keep turning the key and then shutting the key off after the pumps shut off and then turn it back on until you no longer hear the air going back and fourth. Your job while looking under the hood is checking for leaks.

Step seven:
Have the person in the car start it. You need to keep checking for leaks but with the car running now you need to adjust your fuel pressure. The extra flow is going to have raised your fuel pressure some. If you were previously running a stock 3.0 bar setup you need to bring it back down to 3.0 bar.
The way you go about this is let the car idle, then take the vaccume line off the fuel pressure regulator. You need to set it back at 3.0 bar. Leave the vac line off the FPR while you use the locking nut to finilase your adjustment and double check that you didn't alter the fuel pressure by locking it down. Now put the vac line back on the FPR and race the engine a few times in order to get any extra fuel out of the cylinders that may have got in them from running slightly rich while setting the FPR.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/15.jpg

Step eight:
If you haven't already, clamp the pump mounting bracket down properly. You don't need to be able to easily remove it anymore. Also clean up your wiring with zip ties (they are not just for holding your bumpers on, go figure). Do this under the hood, in the back seat area and in the trunk.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/16.jpg

Here are some pump dynos. This setup is listed. Not the biggest and baddest but it is consistent and practical for most people.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/fuelpumpgraph-3.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/fuelpumpgraph2.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/dual%20pumps/fuelpumpgraph-2.jpg

[DreEzed]

Thanks for the info it will help when i go E85. Also I was going to use ID1000's any issues with Injector dynamics?

[4x4le]

correct me if Im wrong but arnt they bosch injectors?

[surfpac]

Not sure if they're modified Bosch injectors but these are supposed to be some awesome injectors. They even have 2000cc ones. These ain't cheap for sure.
The 1000cc (high impedence) as a set are reasonably priced from Amazon. (not trying to promote any supplier..)
Amazon.com: Injector Dynamics Plug-n-Play 1000cc Fuel Injector Set 2000-2005 Honda S2000: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Injector-Dynamics-Plug-n-Play-1000cc-2000-2005/dp/B003VW83KS)



"I'm later on going to come up with something better than electric tape to protect the positive terminal from grounding out."

Try liquid electrical tape.

Amazon.com: Permatex 85120 Liquid Electrical Tape - 4 oz: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-85120-Liquid-Electrical-Tape/dp/B003ERU04W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1298584978&sr=1-3)

[Dark_02wrx]

I know its a totally diffrent car but it has alot of e85 information regardless

The E85 Army Thread - NASIOC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1729586)

Ive been running E85 for awhile now. AWESOME cleaning propertys (switch out fuel filter like 4 times if your running it in an older car). Great octane!! I try to always get it from the same stations due the fluctuation of octanes at different stations (not enough to really fuck to much shit up but still a good habit). And the fact that you can push the tune a shit tune harder with E85. Just dont run to rich with it.......get tuned professionally if running E85.

Idk bout 240s but in wrx's the only thing that would fail due to e85 is the oem fuel pump seals and the oem injector o-rings.

[|BOOST|]

here is some good info:
Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com - View Single Post - Everything you need to know about E85 (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/3016598-post4.html)

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/3016597-post3.html

[[email protected]]

wow lots and lots of things getting thrown around without any forst hand knowledge.

E85 is a drug and you will not want to run anything else after crossing over.

My EVO8 on 91 pump makes 328whp
and on e85 makes 410whp with only a 3 psi bump

RC1000 injectors @ 75% duty cycle with a walbro 255 intank

my SR isnt done yet but she consist of FIC 1650's DW 301 intank will be a few months till shes done but she will be on E85 100% of the time

[4x4le]

Yea, i get so tired when you hear the comments that it takes X% more to produce the same power ect. Sure it takes a little more fuel than gas but not almost 2x as much, not even close. Every pump ive seen it at it is 30% cheaper than low grade gas and sometimes close to 1$/gal cheaper than premium.

I run it for the power as i think its better for me than race fuel and it is far cheaper than race fuel.

Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk

[aNskY]

closest e85 pump is 1.5 hours away from me :(

[[email protected]]

i do it for the power the station is 20 miles each way for me and i top off the tank and fill up three 5 gal jugs and im happy

[Kingtal0n]

I know a guy running E85 on his:
2jz-gte, 1600cc injectors, TH400, BC 272, 950RWHP, 35psi


not sure on the compression ratio though. it goes 8.5's

[aNskY]

^ lots of supra guys are running e85 and putting down BIG power

[TEALSQUEAL]

I've been running e85 for two years, I tune it with a standalone system -Autronic Fuel and Autronic 500r Ignition.

I'll definitely say being diligent with your fuel filter changes after you do the switch is very important. I did mine after the first two tanks of fuel and again at 1000 miles and the next oil change. The deposits that develop of the many years of use while using regular pump gas begin to quickly breakdown and travel downstream into your fuel filter when you start using e85. This is why it's so important to keep up with your fuel filter changes at first.

The other thing to be very diligent with, that I have seen mentioned, is to keep up with your catch-can. Emptying that will help your oil longevity in a big way while running e85. Your first two oil changes after switching to e85 should be done in half the time you are doing while using Pump gas. This is because once again the deposits and other gunk in your engine that has been collecting will start to break up and go into your oil. Also the conditioning of your seals and other internal delicates will take to the different level of moisture and acidity in your oil better if it is in a lower amount over a longer time.

Do not be alarmed by your first oil change after switching to e85, IT WILL SMELL HORRIBLE!!! also the amount of "gunk" in your Catch-can will be alarming if you don't empty your setup often. Also once you have a good sealing PCV system as it was mentioned bring it under vacuum so it can do its job.

For fueling I have ran a 255lph HP in-tank pump, with a Paxton FPR, 740cc injectors at 3 bar. I am well into the duty cycle of my injectors under boost, thus i am adding the system i have in the garage- A swirl-pot fed by the 255, that is then drawn on by an Aeromotive Eliminator. I will be running a a pump controller on the Eliminator such that while cruising it will be half voltage, then above 75% throttle it will return to full voltage and full capacity.

I will elaborate more if anyone has any questions. I have a service call to go on. Have a great day and goodluck!

[misfitsfreak81]

ready to run my fully built 2.2liter sr20 on E85. have all supporting mods for fuel system, just wondering if the injector latency times differ for e85 as opposed to premium gas. running haltech ps1000. hopefully someone knows the answer to this. thanks

Mike

[4x4le]

There is no reason it should be different.

sent from my rooted thunderbolt

[lewisfk]

I was wondering if anyone was running e85 with reflashed ecu, and if u are what tune are u using. Jwt etc.

[godrifttoday]

Methanol > e85 .... Unless u are one of the lucky few who live by the 3 Socal e85 stations I would go with methanol... Can be found any where! Target - Walmart !

But that's just me...

http://tapatalk.com/mu/c6e4d020-e2fd-8bff.jpg

[4x4le]

I was wondering if anyone was running e85 with reflashed ecu, and if u are what tune are u using. Jwt etc.

I am using nistune and have tuned a few e85 cars with it. I know some people that have used tuner pro to tune it.

Methanol > e85 .... Unless u are one of the lucky few who live by the 3 Socal e85 stations I would go with methanol... Can be found any where! Target - Walmart !

But that's just me...

http://tapatalk.com/mu/c6e4d020-e2fd-8bff.jpg

Its going to take more than the fact that you can spend $4 qt of heet at wallmart to fill your tank with to make meth better. $16 a gal is kinda expensive and inconvient to fill your tank using 40 bottles.

List ways its better and show more power being made on the same engine meth vs eth

GO

[godrifttoday]

The only reason

"Here is where you can buy meth
7-11*
AAFES
Ace Hardware*
Advance Auto Parts
Albertsons ***
Amazon.com ***
Auto Value Stores ***
AutoZone ***
Blain's Farm & Fleet ***
BP Gas Stations ***
Bumper to Bumper ***
Canadian Tire* ***
CarQuest* ***
Checker Auto Supply ***
Circle K ***
CVS ***
Dollar General ***
Do-it-Best* ***
Fred Meyer ***
Fred's ***
Grainger* ***
HEB ******
Holiday Stationstore ******
Jewel *** ***
Kmart ***
Kragen Auto Supply ***
Kwik Trip
Meijer ***
Menards
Mills Fleet Farm ***
Murray's Discount Auto ***
NAPA* ***
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Osco ***
Pep Boys ***
Quick Trip ***
Road Ranger ***
Sam's Club ***
Sheetz ***
Schucks Auto Supply ***
ShopKo ***
Speedway SuperAmerica ***
Stewart's Shops ***
Target ***
Tractor Supply Company ***
True Value Hardware* ***
VIP Parts, Tires & Service ***
Walgreens ***
Wal-Mart ***
YardPartsExpresa

[4x4le]

cool, then go make your own thread about meth...

[godrifttoday]

Lol ... Ok I'm just saying

[BoostSlideWayz]

I was almost going to post a thread on how much better e85 is better for your engine except the o2 sensors.. but other than that this fuel is better for your engine and less oil changes a year and longer lasting engine... its like the best fuel ever but my issue is i dont have a station near me so i cant use it.

[Def]

E85 kills oil. You need MORE frequent oil changes running it.

[4x4le]

I was almost going to post a thread on how much better e85 is better for your engine except the o2 sensors.. but other than that this fuel is better for your engine and less oil changes a year and longer lasting engine... its like the best fuel ever but my issue is i dont have a station near me so i cant use it.

I havent noticed this myself as far as the 02 sensors go. It may be true but have been able to get a few years out of mine and its still good. The oil I agree with you though.

E85 kills oil. You need MORE frequent oil changes running it.

This is completely false. Any blow by you have containing gas stays in your oil.

When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.

[s13 loverr]

When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.[/QUOTE]

This brings a new question to me. In another thread people discussed extrude honing and it's benefits but also questioned them. The question of it being too smooth and not getting a proper mix was asked and debated. With gasoline boiling point is 100-400˚F or 250˚C or 121˚C, so the gas would be liquid, but ethanol has a boiling point of 78˚C as mentioned above it would be completely evaporated so would extrude honings benefits be even more exaggerated? Also and I don't know if this is true, so feel free to correct me, but since so much more fuel is put in wouldn't there be more gas for the turbo and thus more power.

Then there is also compression, with ethanol I think stoich ratio is 9:1 and I'm fairly new to this part of the subject with stoich and such, but then gas is 14.6:1 giving ethanol more compression than gas vehicles, but is it better for low or high compression with e85? With high compression our engines could burn the ethanol easily. Although with lower compression the fuel would be less efficient, but have more exhaust gas temperature, in turn spooling the turbo. My question being what is the better trade off?

[4x4le]

you can get away with more compression with e85, and higher compression will spool quicker.

Also e85 creates more exhaust gasses which helps spool.

[smelly240]

I'm at almost 10:1 with E85 on my sr/ve - shit loves it... smells like crappy old drunk people tho. As for the oil - if you're running enough power that you need to go over to E85 - you'll be changing your oil every few hundred miles anyways.

on e85 @ 35psi on a billet 6262 - in a regularly driven street car - its enough to scare a man.

[Def]

This is completely false. Any blow by you have containing gas stays in your oil.

When its e85, well 85% of it will evaporate off and evacuate through your pcv system thus contaminating your oil much less. You see your oil temps are over the e85s boiling point, and its not going in as a liquid either as it evaporates the moment its sprayed from the injector.

Support your point or I dont buy it.

Ethanol releated bearing failure. (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/85310355421/xsl/print_topic)

This was one of the first links. Don't have time to find any more info, but it's pretty well documented it washes down bores more readily (since you're injecting 25-30% more than E10).

It tends to break down the viscosity of oil way faster than regular gas.

[s13 loverr]

Ethanol releated bearing failure. (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/85310355421/xsl/print_topic)

This was one of the first links. Don't have time to find any more info, but it's pretty well documented it washes down bores more readily (since you're injecting 25-30% more than E10).

It tends to break down the viscosity of oil way faster than regular gas.

That link is actually saying it does not. The OP was looking toward e85 as the culprit, but everyone else didn't have any other problems.

[/QUOTEyou can get away with more compression with e85, and higher compression will spool quicker.[/QUOTE

As for my question, I think I should reword, I was asking which one would be better, I understand the higher and lower compression with e85, but what would be better? The ability to burn fuel efficiently and easily or low compression with high EGT's which in turn would help the turbo and unefficent fuel burning.

[4x4le]

Im saying that high compression would be better. Higher compression will spool up a turbo better.



and yes that link is nothing conclusive. If I google search about alien abductions I will find all kinds of claims there but no real proof. Im inclined to believe that is just hearsay as well.

[Def]

Im saying that high compression would be better. Higher compression will spool up a turbo better.



and yes that link is nothing conclusive. If I google search about alien abductions I will find all kinds of claims there but no real proof. Im inclined to believe that is just hearsay as well.

The talk of "ethanol turning oil into a milkshake" is a good indicator it has lost its important lubrication properties.

I've seen lots of talk of E85 vehicles needing oils that are designed to work with ethanol. It definitely combines with any water and forms acetic acid, so maybe it has to do with acid neutralizers.



So far I haven't seen shit from you guys that E85 is no problem at all on oil, so come up with some links if you're going to keep playing the "don't believe it at all game." Put up or shut up.

[Rk3]

Is anyone running it on a z32 tt?

[4x4le]

The talk of "ethanol turning oil into a milkshake" is a good indicator it has lost its important lubrication properties.

I've seen lots of talk of E85 vehicles needing oils that are designed to work with ethanol. It definitely combines with any water and forms acetic acid, so maybe it has to do with acid neutralizers.



So far I haven't seen shit from you guys that E85 is no problem at all on oil, so come up with some links if you're going to keep playing the "don't believe it at all game." Put up or shut up.


You bringing this up is the first I have ever heard about it. I have never seen it personally and with the abundance of e85 stations in my area there are allot of cars running it around here.
Now you provided only one link that appeared to be a dumbass asking a question, a few people telling him that wasnt the problem, and then a few people that got confused and think methanol and e85 have anything in common.

You see Im not playing your game. From my personal experiance I have seen no oil contamination, or at least none worse than when using gas. I feel that it contaminates it less.
There is nothing in e85 that would cause a milkshake look to your oil that isnt in gas. Your talking about water and the acid that e85 creates when water gets drawn in......... But I say have a proper fuel tank that works, with a good fuel cap and get your fuel from a quality station.
Who knows what that acid and water will do when it gets in your oil, Im guessing make that milkshake oil stuff. I wouldnt know because I dont have a ghetto fuel system and i dont fill up at the ghetto e85 station.

[Def]

Water is a byproduct of combustion, and that's what most of blowby gasses are. Hence forming acid and needing acid neutralizers in your oil. There's more than a bit of evidence suggesting that this should be carefully looked after in an E85 vehicle such as manufacturers suggesting different oils that can handle it.

I noticed E85 thinned down the viscosity of my oil much sooner than using just gas.


There is information about this on bobistheoilguy, and most of those guys know lots about automotive oils.

[4x4le]

waters a byproduct of gas too.

in all fairness the only oil I have used since going to e85 is rotellla t 5w40 and maybe it has what it takes

[[email protected]]

waters a byproduct of gas too.

in all fairness the only oil I have used since going to e85 is rotellla t 5w40 and maybe it has what it takes


used the same thing in my old Evo on E85 never any issues with it , motor saw 28psi and drove cross country.

got my new pump for my E85 Silvia as well :goyou:

[TEALSQUEAL]

I have been on amsoil for years now, I can't say I know what is the longevity of oil changes on e85 cars simply because my car barely ticks 3k a year.

My fuel setup is:

Fuelab prodigy pump 1000hp w/hobbs switch high activation or manual FP 2 switch High activation

Fuelab FPR 565 series 2 -10 in 1 -10 out
SS -10 send and return lines
Aeromotive 100 micron SS inlet filter and 60 micron outlet Filter
RC 1000cc injectors
Custom -10 Fuel rail
Jaz 16 Gallon Fuel cell, foam filled, 90ohm sending unit
Deleted stock fuel tank, custom trunk frame mounted fuel cell setup.

As for tuning timing what differences have people seen on just general driving? What plug heat range are people running? I have bumped all of my timing for just general drivability by 2 degrees, my plug heat range are currently 8's but I plan to switch back to a triple strap Mazda style 7 heat range plug. I have no idea what my setup makes, I have a FP big 28 and it is huffed out to say the least.

[onehundredoctane]

Initially I was told by Full Race that with my engine set up the optimum injector size would be 750cc. Since I didn't want the injectors to be maxed out upon duty cycle I decided to go with 1000cc injectors. Soooo, if decided to switch over to E85, would my 1000cc's be ample enough?

[Robb]

Didn't look to see if this was posted, but: Senate vote marks start of end for ethanol subsidies - Yahoo! News (http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_usa_senate_ethanol)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Thursday to eliminate billions of dollars in support for the U.S. ethanol industry, sending a strong message that the era of big taxpayer support for biofuels is ending.

[TEALSQUEAL]

get that garbage out of here.

[TEALSQUEAL]

Initially I was told by Full Race that with my engine set up the optimum injector size would be 750cc. Since I didn't want the injectors to be maxed out upon duty cycle I decided to go with 1000cc injectors. Soooo, if decided to switch over to E85, would my 1000cc's be ample enough?

And yes; 1000cc injectors will flow around 500whp on e85 without being over duty cycled.

[4x4le]

A good rule of thumb is get injectors that would be sized right for gas and run them on e85 with a 4 bar setup (4bar setups work better than 3 bar with e85 anyways as long as your pump setup is good for your demands). This also allows you to start out with your fuel map as you would if it were on gas and make minor global changes to get it right.

[TEALSQUEAL]

A good rule of thumb is get injectors that would be sized right for gas and run them on e85 with a 4 bar setup (4bar setups work better than 3 bar with e85 anyways as long as your pump setup is good for your demands). This also allows you to start out with your fuel map as you would if it were on gas and make minor global changes to get it right.

I understand what you are saying here, but wouldnt this decrease the lifespan of the injector due to being under greater pintle pressure constantly. Also the fuel system is at a great load constantly. I personally prefer running the larger injectors, and adjusting the global fuel table by the ratio of old injector to new. For instance, you go to 1000's from 740's all you have to do is multiply your global table by .74 and you should be in the ballpark and then minor adjustments. There isn't increased stress on your fuel system, and you gave yourself the duty cycle/longevity that running stock pressure will maintain. Especially if you plan to run a fair amount of boost. Starting at 60 and then running 25lbs of boost will put you at 85psi fuel pressure. That is moving into a territory where a lot of pumps get very weak and could starve your system up top.

[onehundredoctane]

And yes; 1000cc injectors will flow around 500whp on e85 without being over duty cycled.

Thanks! Now I'm curious about how much more power my car will make on E85 vs 93 octane pump gas. GT3071R is rated to 480 iirc, but my Z32 maf is 450-500 from what I've read.

Eh, hell with it, I haven't even cranked it up for the first time yet.

[4x4le]

I understand what you are saying here, but wouldnt this decrease the lifespan of the injector due to being under greater pintle pressure constantly. Also the fuel system is at a great load constantly. I personally prefer running the larger injectors, and adjusting the global fuel table by the ratio of old injector to new. For instance, you go to 1000's from 740's all you have to do is multiply your global table by .74 and you should be in the ballpark and then minor adjustments. There isn't increased stress on your fuel system, and you gave yourself the duty cycle/longevity that running stock pressure will maintain. Especially if you plan to run a fair amount of boost. Starting at 60 and then running 25lbs of boost will put you at 85psi fuel pressure. That is moving into a territory where a lot of pumps get very weak and could starve your system up top.

Well, just make sure you dont have detchworks and you have a good brand of injectors and pumps, msd and bosch come to mind. E85 will work better on a 4bar setup ans should be ran on a 4bar setup.

Making 400whp stresses out our 4cyl engines too so i dont like that argument, besides you should see what drifting does to my tires!

sent from my rooted thunderbolt

[Dj Ryderz]

I just finished my new setup with E85 and wow this is the shit !!!!!! The engine run so much better. No more heat problem, barely no carbon emission and smell great hahaha. The sr20det now run [email protected] & [email protected] (mustang dyno).

The setup is:

1000cc ID
A1000 Pump
Gt3071r @22lbs
Tomei Cam (260in 270ex)
Aem Ems4
.....And all the usual stuff.

[TEALSQUEAL]

Thanks! Now I'm curious about how much more power my car will make on E85 vs 93 octane pump gas. GT3071R is rated to 480 iirc, but my Z32 maf is 450-500 from what I've read.

Eh, hell with it, I haven't even cranked it up for the first time yet.

It's the timing and slight leaner condition you can run that is the real benefit of e85. Maf shouldn't make the difference. Can you control your timing? What are you tuning with

[onehundredoctane]

Nistune Type 3 board

[xpertsnowcarver]

This is my comparison of 100 octane vs E85
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/xpertsnowcarver3/DYNOCOMP1jpg.jpg

There is some benefit for NA engines, especially if you are high compression. But, it makes a huge difference for FI engines.

Engine is an Autech S15 SR20DE
11.7:1 CR
444CC OEM S14 SR20DET (Originally 280CC)
Walbro 255
300ZX Fuel Filter
Tomei S-Type FPR

I've been using E85 on this engine for well over a year. The first year was track use only. For the last six months, I've probably put 5000 miles on the engine for regular driving.

No, you do not require more frequent oil changes. I drove 4000 miles (using Motul 300V 5W-30 oil), and the oil looked and felt like any other time I changed the oil. If you're oil is getting broken down by E85, you're piston rings must be letting too much E85 through and/or your crankcase ventilation sucks. Somehow condensing E85 in the crankcase and getting stuck in the oil? Not possible. E85 (like gasoline) has a natural tendency to evaporate at atmospheric pressure. So, E85 would have to be leaking through to the oil.

The only down side to using E85 (to me anyway) is that you don't get any of the additives that promote lubrication in the combustion chamber. So engine wear is going to be a bit higher.

There is a limit to how much compression you can do. I can still manage to get a high knock count on the track with E85. (Side note... I'd assume you'd HAVE TO use race fuel to use the Tomei 2.2L 13.1:1 Stroker Kit). With 91, I was knocking at idle. I'm not going to pay $8.50+/gal of 100 octane... So, if you're turbocharged and want to increase your compression ratio because you're using E85, I wouldn't recommend going any higher than 9.5:1. Maybe 10:1 if you think you're engine is bullet proof.

[TEALSQUEAL]

Nice numbers NA. High compression would benefit from the higher octane rating of e85, but the real difference between FI and NA benefit of e85 is in boosted application from reduction of mixture temperatures entering the cylinder. This also helps the knock on boosted applications. I always love seeing tunes of taking the timing past mbt and then backing it off a few degrees and not worrying about knock. (all on the dyno)

I personally would love a 9.5 compression boosted application. I'll never forget my buddies 11:1 b18 w/3076, it had power everywhere and would easily do 60+mph burnouts w/quaife LSD and 225's

This is my comparison of 100 octane vs E85
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/xpertsnowcarver3/DYNOCOMP1jpg.jpg

There is some benefit for NA engines, especially if you are high compression. But, it makes a huge difference for FI engines.

Engine is an Autech S15 SR20DE
11.7:1 CR
444CC OEM S14 SR20DET (Originally 280CC)
Walbro 255
300ZX Fuel Filter
Tomei S-Type FPR

I've been using E85 on this engine for well over a year. The first year was track use only. For the last six months, I've probably put 5000 miles on the engine for regular driving.

No, you do not require more frequent oil changes. I drove 4000 miles (using Motul 300V 5W-30 oil), and the oil looked and felt like any other time I changed the oil. If you're oil is getting broken down by E85, you're piston rings must be letting too much E85 through and/or your crankcase ventilation sucks. Somehow condensing E85 in the crankcase and getting stuck in the oil? Not possible. E85 (like gasoline) has a natural tendency to evaporate at atmospheric pressure. So, E85 would have to be leaking through to the oil.

The only down side to using E85 (to me anyway) is that you don't get any of the additives that promote lubrication in the combustion chamber. So engine wear is going to be a bit higher.

There is a limit to how much compression you can do. I can still manage to get a high knock count on the track with E85. (Side note... I'd assume you'd HAVE TO use race fuel to use the Tomei 2.2L 13.1:1 Stroker Kit). With 91, I was knocking at idle. I'm not going to pay $8.50+/gal of 100 octane... So, if you're turbocharged and want to increase your compression ratio because you're using E85, I wouldn't recommend going any higher than 9.5:1. Maybe 10:1 if you think you're engine is bullet proof.

[smelly240]

On a evo we changed over a few weeks ago - we picked up 15hp switching over to E85 on 2 less psi of boost- BUT


It picked up over 65TQ. things at 404Tq at like 4000rpms... Another IX we picked up like 40hp and 45tq without increasing boost.

Oil should be changed more frequently - but if you arent driving a racecar that milkshakes the oil (this shouldnt happen on a street car) - its not that noticeable and 2500-3000 miles shouldnt be too bad on hte oil.

neither of those cars ever have odd looking or smelling oil - neither does my own car. All run 1600cc injectors.

[anton1o]

E85 is becoming hugely popular, altho we get alot of variance between petrol stations with fuel so you dont mind many street cars running it at all, but in terms of Drift/Drag/Circuit its getting massive.

In regards to the injector choices.
550cc side feed = 220-230kw
740cc side feed = 250-260kw
850cc side feed = 260-270kw
1000cc top feed = 290-300kw
2000cc top feed = 350kw +

I was going to put my street car on E85 since i would only do about 1tank a week so it would be ok, but decided against it and would rather just look at doing NOS or other extra's to give that power jump, but it definetly has its rewards if it suits what your trying to achive :)

[nomma]

im really interested in this but i have one major question. since e85 is a more corrosive fuel how do the pistons rings and walls hold up? im a ford tech and in our alternative fuel classes we were taught that the e85 can score pit and cause abnormal wear to the pistons rings and cylinder walls? anyone noticed this? or are yo only recommending running this with completely built and forged internals?

[xpertsnowcarver]

While the engine is in use, E85 doesn't necessarily cause any additional engine wear. It's merely the lack of additives that can be put in E85 to lubricate the combustion chamber. If gasoline didn't have its additives, you would get the same kind of engine wear. The piston rings and walls should be fine during operation.

However, the problem could come from between engine uses. Once the engine is shut off, some E85 may still be sitting in the valves. If the engine is sitting for a good period of time, you can expect the surface of iron sleeves, iron rings, or spark plugs to be prone to rusting. The best way to avoid this would be to "purge" the combustion chamber by cranking the starter, while the ECU is kept off so as not to continue injecting more fuel.

Neither of my engines have been rebuilt or have forged internals. After 5000 miles of use in the last six months, the engine performance and compression tests have been exceptional. The only thing I have had to replace in the last year were my spark plugs. Ever since I wired a switch directly to the starter to "purge" the engine, the spark plugs haven't been rusting.

[260sexways]

Ethonal gas is hygroscopic (will absorb water) and can absorb 50 times more water than conventional non-alcohol gas. The shelf life of e85 is dramatically shorter than regular gas.There is also no known product to retract the water from the fuel.

[TEALSQUEAL]

I run Lucas e85 additive in every tank I run. All fuel absorbs water; heet isn't an absolute fix. All the naysayers that pop in never have ran the fuel. Can we get someone to speak up who has run it and had a million problems? I can personally say that after years of running it, the worst thing I have seen is a few more cranks during extremely cold startups...

[STR8E180]

sr20vet using E85
YouTube - ‪Tuning the S13's new setup‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg-4hTqNBX0&feature=player_embedded)

[4x4le]

There is also no known product to retract the water from the fuel.

Humm, thats odd because producing e85 creates lots of water, and there is a test you can do to see how much water is in it, and then from that figure there is a product that removes the water.

I cant remember the names of the products because Im not going to register with the atf to make my own but I did look into it and you statement is false.

[TEALSQUEAL]

It's sad these threads die so fast. Anyone tried different heat range plugs to see if helps their cold start? I have tried both protruded and recessed tips. The recessed tips have definitely always worked better.

[xpertsnowcarver]

What's the model number is your spark plug? I've been meaning to try a recessed tip plug.

I'm currently using NGK Iridium IX HR 7. If the temperature is above 24C, then it'll start the first time.

http://www.beastpower.com/products/ngk/ngk-iridium-ix-prod.gif

[TEALSQUEAL]

I have to run denso iridium power's they are a 8 heat range. I have to use them for my coils (CBR929rr) they have a removable tip. I am thinking of going back to 7's though; my car starts within a few cranks above 60 F

[jvega]

can i just put E85 on my sr20det with the stock ecu and maf but i do have a t28 and 555cc injectors?
Can i just mix some E85 at least with my setup??

[4x4le]

Its not smart to do stuff like this half assed. Read this thread and others so you can get a proper pump and regulator setup, verify your pcv system will work right and not be a fire hazard and tune properly for your mods.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[Johnny_K]

So i know this is an old thread but figure it would be a good place to ask.

WHP goals is around 230-250 on a stock block ka24 with a garrett t25 and front mount IC

Will a walbro 255 suffice?
i currently have 370cc injectors, what size would i need for my HP range?
I plan on upgrading to an adjustable FPR, is that and injectors all i need to upgrade?

As for my ecu I planned on getting a nistune and getting with 4x4 LE on the tune.

[Croustibat]

I have been using e85 for some years in a CA18DET now. Using nistune to set it, walbro 255, T28R, S14 maf and 510cc mistu injectors. Also running a 3bar sr20det FPR (ca18 is 2.5)

What can i say?

1/ 510cc are maxed at 1bar (15psi) boost. I think i will be installing ID1000. Yet it is producing around 300hp.

2/ never had a problem, but you need to monitor AFR all the time and be ready to remap on the fly. Dont worry about converting 14.7:1 to 9:1, your wideband does it for you : it is measuring lambda then converting, so will always show 14.7 when stoeich, wether you use e85 or regular fuel. This being said, you run 10:1 with regular fuel at WOT, but 12:1 is well enough with e85 (again, i am talking about the reading. I know it is not 12:1, i guess it is near 7 or 8:1, but your gauge WILL SHOW 12:1)

3/ DONT use e85 without a proper remap. Fuel is one thing, timing is another. You can add tons of ignition advance before and after peak VE efficiency, but not there. Which means you cant just turn the distributor cap, or align the CAS on 18° instead of 15. That wont work. It really needs proper timing, otherwise performance will be poo and the car may overheat.

3.5/ for the exact same reason, DONT make your e85 mix. And there is another one : regular pump fuel and e85 do not really mix together, they are bonded by additives in e85 fuel. Mixing means you may run pump alternatively pump fuel, and ethanol at another time.

You will answer "people do it and they have no problem", which is somewhat right. They do it, and dont have knock, EGT nor AFR sensors so dont see the problem. Which is different. Or they really dont have the problem, but dont have performance engines. TBH i use a 40% mix in my daily car. But then i bought if for 100€, so i dont care if it breaks.

4/ i have not seen problems on rubber, except a set of injector gaskets. I had "green ones", which died fast. Got "black ones", no problem.

5/ go high compression ... i never heard a CA running e85 knock. Never. Even when running standard comp pistons, 1.2mm headgasket (which is standard), skimmed bloc and head, and 2bar boost (30psi).


I am venting my catch can to atmosphere, and it did not catch fire either. Maybe i am just lucky ... will double check that though.


considering johnny_K question, i dont know the KA setup ... but i know 370cc are the oem size for a ca18det, and that it is maxed at regular pump with 15psi of boost.

bit of personal advice there, dont get an adjustable FPR, most are shitty unaccurate parts, unless you pay 80+$ for them. Just get bigger injectors from a known manufacturer. No "modified or redrilled" ones (might as well dump your money in a bin).

[Johnny_K]

^ thxs man.

So being that your 510's are maxed out and your at 300HP. you think 510's will suffice for 250 or would you recommend i go bigger?

I'm not sure i like that fact that i have to montior AF all the time and may have to adjust. I would tune it one time and leave it as is.

I never plan on mixing e85 with reg gas. If i go e85 it will be strait e85.

So no adjustable FPR? I thought i needed one to get raise the fuel pressure to 4 bar

[Croustibat]

Yes, you need a FPR to raise the fuel pressure to 4bar. However you dont need to raise the fuel pressure to 4bar, and TBH it creates more problems than it solves them.

Remember your fuel pump has to deliver fuel to FPR setting + boost, and the more pressure, the less flow... most pumps wont flow a lot past 4.5bar. Injectors are also made for 3bar base pressure, so they wont atomize correctly and will heat more with 4bar fuel pressure. that and gaskets will suffer ... Not worth the trouble imho, just get the correct sized injectors.

I dont know the KA24, they did not sell it in France. I am using the CA18DET. They come with 370cc injectors as standard and run around 170HP. They are maxed with 1bar fuel pressure on regular pump gas, which translates into approx 220hp.

If you get a nistune, adjusting will be easy and fast to do. There can be a 1-2 AFR variation between 2 e85 tank, so it just is a matter of seconds. The fuel map itself does not need any correction, you just need to change the K value a little bit ( although it is a bit more complicated as you have to change the TP scale and crank value too. But nistune can do it for you, you just need to use the "resize injector button" , put the old K value in the "new injector size", the wanted K value in the "old injector size", and nistune will do all the complicated things for you. You just need an AFR gauge and sensor)

As for injector size, it all depends on what you plan for your engine. Will you stay to 250hp ? Will you want more ? Just dont buy crappy redrilled ones :D i think i'll go with 1000cc, so i get a nice margin for future upgrade.

[Johnny_K]

^ k, your kinda losing me here. The first sentence says i need to raise to 4 bar but the 2nd sentence says that i dont need to. What does TBH stand for?

Thxs for the info on the nistune, not sure what all that means but i will ask the guy tuning my car.

[Johnny_K]

E85 is becoming hugely popular, altho we get alot of variance between petrol stations with fuel so you dont mind many street cars running it at all, but in terms of Drift/Drag/Circuit its getting massive.

In regards to the injector choices.
550cc side feed = 220-230kw
740cc side feed = 250-260kw
850cc side feed = 260-270kw
1000cc top feed = 290-300kw
2000cc top feed = 350kw +

I was going to put my street car on E85 since i would only do about 1tank a week so it would be ok, but decided against it and would rather just look at doing NOS or other extra's to give that power jump, but it definetly has its rewards if it suits what your trying to achive :)

Can anyone validate the injector info above.

Using the calcuator here:
Calculators: Horsepower/Kilowatt Conversions (http://www.americanmachinist.com/Calculators/HorseToKilo.aspx)

550CC will suffice for a 250 HP goal.

[dudewutup]

I just skimmed through but ka guys can convert to e85 with just stock 370cc injectors from sr, 300zx, q45...ect.. I've been on e85 since 08 no supporting mods.

sent from my cell phone. its a old beat up one held together with rubber bands. im ghetto...

[Johnny_K]

^ what fuel pump are u using? how many WHP are you putting down? Do you still like being on e85?

[Croustibat]

^ k, your kinda losing me here. The first sentence says i need to raise to 4 bar but the 2nd sentence says that i dont need to. What does TBH stand for?

Thxs for the info on the nistune, not sure what all that means but i will ask the guy tuning my car.

The first sentence says you need an adjustable FPR to adjust pressure. the second one says you dont have to adjust pressure, so dont get and adjustable FPR.

TBH > to be honest

More pressure = more fuel, but also = problem. You can get more fuel with bigger injectors and you need bigger injectors anyway so just get bigger injectors with the correct sizing. going from 3 to 4bar base pressure gives around 15 to 20% fueling capacity increase (no, it is not linear)

dudewutup > see previous post, point 3 and 3.5. There is a special write up for you just after the 3.5 : do not assume you have no problem when you have no way to monitor if you do or not.

if you just installed bigger injectors, your fueling is out in most places (i highly double latency is the same, and you just dumped more fuel everywhere). That and your timing is now way out. Which is not what you can call "all right". Do as you please, but please refrain from advising people when you cant check wether what you do is correct or not.

[Johnny_K]

^ gotcha, make sense now.

I appreicate your help.

[VegasTiff]

I have some subaru yellow sidefeed 500cc injectors that i will be installing soon...i was planning on running 16lbs of boost on 91, but do you guys think that i can pass 12lbs of boost or more on e85 and getting nearly the same power?

Right now im running a stock block s14SR20det, s15t28, FMIC, walbro255, PowerFC, z32 maf(not installed yet), and my 370cc injectors are maxed at 12psi on my 91 pump gas.

[nieko]

I'd just like an opinion. I am redoing my Turbo and fuel setup, I'm going to be running a VE head with a 3076 and I am very interested in running E85. I have an AEM and all the neccesary blah blah blah.

Right now I have a Denso Supra fuel pump, think seems to pump like a champ but will it be enough for what I need? I was thinking of possibly running a bosch 044 in line, is that necessary? And also, what size injectors should I run, I am down for overkill. I dont want to run my injectors at like 95% duty cycle and shit.

Any info would be great.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

I'd just like an opinion. I am redoing my Turbo and fuel setup, I'm going to be running a VE head with a 3076 and I am very interested in running E85. I have an AEM and all the neccesary blah blah blah.

Right now I have a Denso Supra fuel pump, think seems to pump like a champ but will it be enough for what I need? I was thinking of possibly running a bosch 044 in line, is that necessary? And also, what size injectors should I run, I am down for overkill. I dont want to run my injectors at like 95% duty cycle and shit.

Any info would be great.

Aeromotive*|*11101 - A1000 Fuel Pump (http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/fuel-pumps/11101-a1000-fuel-pump/)

^^ that and a set of 1200cc injectors will be perfect for your setup, you'll never have fuel problems and have plenty of Injector to play with

Also make sure you have a GREAT tuner because E85 doesn't knock, It just goes KABOOM! It has very little knock IF any

[Croustibat]

yup, no knock on e85. EGTs and cylinder pressure skyrockets,and then your pistons melt / the block or head crack.

I dont know the engine you use. I know a GT3071 on a CA18DET and a 9000rpm head requires 1200-1600cc injectors to get 2bar pressure (but then the turbo dies as it overspins) with e85. Dual fuel pump setup could be useful too, not sure it is needed. It also needs a true peak & hold injector driver if your injectors are low impedance, the oem saturated driver cant open injectors that big correctly, and you wont be able to map them correctly. You can adapt a megasquirt driver for that, it does not cost a lot, around 60$ i believe. Injector size also depends on your redline, i think 1200cc would be enough on that CA if the redline was at 7500 or 8000.

If it is on a sr or a KA ... i dont know, but i dont think it will need smaller injectors.

[turbo2nr]

Ive been skimming through this thread but i didnt see this mentioned.

What is gas mileage like running straight e85, with my pump tune im getting around 20-23mph. How much worse is it going to be?

[[email protected]]

Ive been skimming through this thread but i didnt see this mentioned.

What is gas mileage like running straight e85, with my pump tune im getting around 20-23mph. How much worse is it going to be?

Well e85 uses ~30% more fuel, so I'd say your mileage would drop to about 15-17mpg

[Croustibat]

Fuel consumption goes up by around 15-20% on a CA18DET. It also comes with a free power upgrade (around 10-15%), as it allows perfect ignition timing. It also allows to keep oem compression ratio, even at higher boost, which means a more responsive engine.

I went from 9L/100km (26.14mpg) to 11l/100km (21.38mpg) with a somewhat stage 1 setup (performance upgrades: freeflow filter,FMIC, 1bar boost on stock T25, own remap) on a CA18DET. I cant remember how much hp that was, but there was about 20-25HP gain.

Now i am doing 13-14L/100 (~17.5mpg) with a T28 running 1bar boost and remap (and all supporting mods including exhaust). It makes around 300hp at that pressure, but injectors are maxed so i guess i could achieve a bit better mileage and power with bigger injectors. My CA eats a lot of fuel though. Much more than it is supposed to.

[ultimateirving]

Ive been skimming through this thread but i didnt see this mentioned.

What is gas mileage like running straight e85, with my pump tune im getting around 20-23mph. How much worse is it going to be?

I went from 24-28 before e85. Now I always get 15mpg. Whether I baby it or floor it. I'm putting down 300hp at 15 psi

[ebayDM]

Can anyone validate the injector info above.

Using the calcuator here:
Calculators: Horsepower/Kilowatt Conversions (http://www.americanmachinist.com/Calculators/HorseToKilo.aspx)

550CC will suffice for a 250 HP goal.

It's based a little low from what I have experienced, but my motor might make a little more power than a stock SR.

I have S14 SR20 with pretty much ARP and balanced everything, with CP 10.5-1 pistons. stock rebuilt head.
- Pwr FC D-jetro
- 2871r with Garrett 44mm tial external Exhaust side ( really cool) stock manifold with heat shield !! sleeper unless you really look.
- walbro

with 550 detchworks i maxed out at 287whp at 13lb with 95% injector duty

now I have 850cc Subaru side feeds.. forgot company and I make 380whp on 22lbs with around 70ish% injector duty

The chart is a good ballpark estimator.

[VegasTiff]

I know it's different with each engine, but how much timing did you guys end up adding to the map? Im having trouble with my tuner...i dont know if i fully trust what hes doing....so i have been researching a bunch and im thinking of tackling fixing the tune myself instead of taking it to someone else.

My setup is: s14SR20det, 520cc injectors, t28, powerFC, z32maf, FMIC, E85, hbc pro, aem wideband.

Now before my change over to e85 boost was kicking in around 2500rpm and pulling hard at 12psi the whole way. Ever since I have changed over, my boost hits 5psi at 2krpm and slowly creeps up as the rpm's rise and hits max of 15psi at about 5500rpm...it sucks. I have checked for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Could this be an ignition timing problem? Maybe not enough timing? Here's a screen shot of my current timing map, please tell me what you guys think....i really need to get my car back on the track, im dying to tear it up : / Also at idle my wideband reads around 15.5-16.5, WOT is 11.0-12.0, cruising 16.5-17+ (super lean?) Highest engine knock I have seen under full load has been 25.

PS: The car has only been street tuned, we have not tuned on the dyno yet. From what i read when tuning timing you just keep adding it so long as your power keeps increasing and your not knocking a bunch?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/friedhouse/1221.png

[Croustibat]

timing wise, with e85 : add timing unless you dont get more power (real power, not "seat feel power") or your EGTs are too high. You should never get knock or det. Remember changing timing affect AFR too ...And i think you are too lean on cruise. I usually set it at 15:1 (i did not change the fuel type setting on my wideband gauge, so it means just a bit leaner than stoeich). I did add timing everywhere, but i increased it less at peak VE than everywhere else. I cant say how much i added as i was using a custom map before, so you cant really compare to a chip tune.

Turbo going that badly on boost is a problem, it usually starts to spool a bit later (like 100rpm later) but it pulls stronger so you get your full boost at the same time, if not sooner.

I think your injectors are maxed though, my 510cc are maxed with a t28r and a 1.8L engine so yours should be too.

[slow92]

I have read through this thread and it is very intersting. The thing I am most concerned with is the size of fuel lines needed. I remember a thread a while back on here that talked about the return fuel being too hot if you used fuel lines that are too large. I am looking at making 700+hp and using e85 for the most part. So should I go with -8 feed and -6 return or -10 feed and -8 return. There is a pretty good thread on evolutionm.net discussing e85 fuel set ups and they suggest running -6 feed and return. Just wanted to see what you guys think.

Thanks

[VegasTiff]

timing wise, with e85 : add timing unless you dont get more power (real power, not "seat feel power") or your EGTs are too high. You should never get knock or det. Remember changing timing affect AFR too ...And i think you are too lean on cruise. I usually set it at 15:1 (i did not change the fuel type setting on my wideband gauge, so it means just a bit leaner than stoeich). I did add timing everywhere, but i increased it less at peak VE than everywhere else. I cant say how much i added as i was using a custom map before, so you cant really compare to a chip tune.

Turbo going that badly on boost is a problem, it usually starts to spool a bit later (like 100rpm later) but it pulls stronger so you get your full boost at the same time, if not sooner.

I think your injectors are maxed though, my 510cc are maxed with a t28r and a 1.8L engine so yours should be too.

Ok, we figured out the problem, did a boost test under air pressure and found that something was whistling on top of the intake manifold...turned out the vacuum source for the FPR was T'd off with nothing hooked up to the other side of the T! That fixed my problem...boost kicks in nice and early as it should now. We retuned on the street, and will being finishing with a dyno tune in the next month or so for getting the most out of my timing.

As far as my injectors being maxed out, yes they are, but i have a reason why i went with these injectors. I didn't want to get into a big build yet (want to enjoy my car for at least a full track season) so i figured the best bang for my buck would be to get some Subaru STI injectors and max them out on e85 at 15psi (didnt want to throw more boost that that on the t28). My thoughts are I will have a super reliable setup at 300whp. My injectors cost me $40 off someone on craigslist, had them cleaned and flow tested at $10 a piece, and got some subaru injector clips off some random legacy in the junk yard for like $2....so 50-60hp increase for under $100 is OK in my book :)

Another big plus...my wife doesn't complain of the smell of gas in the garage anymore! Just the smell of sweet sweet E85.

Now i'm about 300miles in since the fuel change, when should i start thinking of changing out my fuel filter? If i need to at all...

[Pinggg]

E-85 FTW!
F**k 93 and $4.00 a gallon.
E-85 is $2.12 by house.
And we all love the smell of E-85.
Sounds like a win win to me. except for the gas mileage. lol

[Croustibat]

Ok, we figured out the problem, did a boost test under air pressure and found that something was whistling on top of the intake manifold...turned out the vacuum source for the FPR was T'd off with nothing hooked up to the other side of the T! That fixed my problem...boost kicks in nice and early as it should now. We retuned on the street, and will being finishing with a dyno tune in the next month or so for getting the most out of my timing.

As far as my injectors being maxed out, yes they are, but i have a reason why i went with these injectors. I didn't want to get into a big build yet (want to enjoy my car for at least a full track season) so i figured the best bang for my buck would be to get some Subaru STI injectors and max them out on e85 at 15psi (didnt want to throw more boost that that on the t28). My thoughts are I will have a super reliable setup at 300whp. My injectors cost me $40 off someone on craigslist, had them cleaned and flow tested at $10 a piece, and got some subaru injector clips off some random legacy in the junk yard for like $2....so 50-60hp increase for under $100 is OK in my book :)

Another big plus...my wife doesn't complain of the smell of gas in the garage anymore! Just the smell of sweet sweet E85.

Now i'm about 300miles in since the fuel change, when should i start thinking of changing out my fuel filter? If i need to at all...

Maxed injectors tend to overheat and end up dying. It takes some times though... I know why you did that, i went the same route with mitsu evo injectors. Straight fit on a CA, same plug, same gaskets, just a bit shorter which makes them even easier to fit. Latency is around 800µs which is high for 500cc but still acceptable. Got them for 80£ at the time ... Still I think i will get hIgh Z 1050 FICs or ID1000 soon for peace of mind. It should also give better fuel mileage due to better fuel spray and shorter openings (meaning the fuel will be sent in the engine, and not on a closed valve most of the time). I think they are around 400-450$ .

fuel filter : You seem to have an AFR gauge, so check it. When it starts to go lean on boost, or stutters, time to change it.

I had to change mine twice (was completely clogged) at 1000km intervals, but the car is old and must have been sitting a lot. E85 cleans your fuel system, so everything goes to the filter; if it is already clean, it wont be much blocked.

[Imarvin240]

only problem I have with E85 is that not many places around me carry it...

[Croustibat]

only problem I have with E85 is that not many places around me carry it...

If you want the best of both worlds, get a nistune and switch to a regular pump gas mapping when there is no e85 near you. You will still have a bit of e85 in your fuel tank, which means you may have to richen it a bit. I did that some years ago, when e85 was just starting and pump stations were out of e85 for months.

[2muchboost]

I would also recommend looking at Pro-Efi standalone with E-85. If you look at the 2jz/supra based community, they rave about the amazing ability that the EFI system presents.

I may be wrong but most people who I have spoken to and run E-85 recommend 1200 cc injectors at a minimum if your looking to make any kind of "serious" power. Would make sense because of the fuel consumption increase. Cant wait to try this in my new set up.

[Croustibat]

There is a reason: you cant mod a toyota ECU.

While a nistune or a similar system costs between 300$ and 500$ .

You dont need 1200cc injectors unless going for 500+ HP on a CA or a SR. i am getting 300HP out of 510cc injectors, will be switching to 1000s for peace of mind, room for future upgrades (i hit 100% duty at 1bar, and i plan running 1.2), and the fact new 1000ccs have better latency than older 700-800cc (which would be what i need).

injector wise, make sure you get high Z injectors and bin the dropping resistor box. SR and CA ECUs use a saturated injector driver, which fits high Z injectors. Using peak and hold injectors with a dropping resistor works.. for small injectors. Getting above 750/800 creates troubles.

[revcyanide]

Sorry if this has been covered.

What are the benefits to running e85 N/A?

I am seriously thinking of converting my 240 over to e85 when I swap my VQ in, would be easy enough since I have done almost all the supporting mods already.

Everything I see in here is referring to boosted cars. The injector + sizing should be the same correct? (+25% basically)

It seems like this would be something really easy to tune NA, as you don't have to worry about being too rich or too lean in boost.


It will be a mildish build, My VQ is fresh with 0 miles forged internals rebuild with stock compression. I will be adding JWT s1 cams, and after that just basic bolt ones (I already have a lightweight flywheel, intake, 3 " single exhaust, planning on fabbing up some long tube headers, solid driveshaft etc etc blah blah blah)

I am really hoping I can break the 300 whp mark with a mild street build, a great tune, and e85, if this even feasible? should I just stick to pump gas?


Tuning is my weak point with cars, so any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



*edit, I live in CO, EVERY gas stationed has an E85 pump here, and it is actually a LOT cheaper than 91 pump gas. it is just a track car, I have a DD.


*edit edit, also should a 255 lph in tank Walbro be enough for this mild of a build?

[Pinggg]

If you want the best of both worlds, get a nistune and switch to a regular pump gas mapping when there is no e85 near you. You will still have a bit of e85 in your fuel tank, which means you may have to richen it a bit. I did that some years ago, when e85 was just starting and pump stations were out of e85 for months.

Martin @ R.S Enthalpy has the dual tune too!
Whichever combo of gases you want he can do.

[2muchboost]

Correct....Supra/Toyota ECU's are a pain to work with. But if your going to go Standalone it may be worth a while to look at the EFI's as an option...just my 2 cents.

Correct #2 :) .....I agree that the 1200's would only be needed for +500hp goals. 1000's would be more than enough for most but some of us who are looking at bigger power goals should look at 1200's as a starting point.

Great minds think alike :)

[Croustibat]

Sorry if this has been covered.

What are the benefits to running e85 N/A?

I am seriously thinking of converting my 240 over to e85 when I swap my VQ in, would be easy enough since I have done almost all the supporting mods already.

Everything I see in here is referring to boosted cars. The injector + sizing should be the same correct? (+25% basically)

It seems like this would be something really easy to tune NA, as you don't have to worry about being too rich or too lean in boost.


It will be a mildish build, My VQ is fresh with 0 miles forged internals rebuild with stock compression. I will be adding JWT s1 cams, and after that just basic bolt ones (I already have a lightweight flywheel, intake, 3 " single exhaust, planning on fabbing up some long tube headers, solid driveshaft etc etc blah blah blah)

I am really hoping I can break the 300 whp mark with a mild street build, a great tune, and e85, if this even feasible? should I just stick to pump gas?


Tuning is my weak point with cars, so any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.



*edit, I live in CO, EVERY gas stationed has an E85 pump here, and it is actually a LOT cheaper than 91 pump gas. it is just a track car, I have a DD.


*edit edit, also should a 255 lph in tank Walbro be enough for this mild of a build?

dialing AFRs is not hard. Dialing timing is hard and time consuming, and the power gain (or loss, or death of engine) is there.

Benefits are low on an N/A, a bit crispier response, a bit more power.

It works wonder on charged engines because it can use more boost. e85 is just a very high octane fuel. If you plan on driving ALWAYS on e85, install high compression pistons or get the head grinded with a thin headgasket. I think you could go as high as 14 / 15:1 compression ratio. THAT will give you an insanely reactive engine, and some power too ... if the bearings, crank and pistons can take it.

The whole point of e85 is "high octane". It is around 104. Which means higher compression, wether by using a bigger turbo, or high compression engines.

I dont know the VQ , but seeing how i get 300hp with a 1.8L boosted at 1bar, i cant see a VQ not doing that.

[Croustibat]

Correct....Supra/Toyota ECU's are a pain to work with. But if your going to go Standalone it may be worth a while to look at the EFI's as an option...just my 2 cents.

Correct #2 :) .....I agree that the 1200's would only be needed for +500hp goals. 1000's would be more than enough for most but some of us who are looking at bigger power goals should look at 1200's as a starting point.

Great minds think alike :)

i know that mostly because i owned a 7MGTE supra before, and i know a 500bhp CA18DET running on e85 ;)

800 would be enough, but there are no new tech 800ccs. Better use 1000ccs that open as fast as old 600cc !

[2stepGoesPowPow]

not positive if this answer has been answer'd or not but, does E85 burn faster/slower then 93 octane pump gas? any noticeable difference for anyone?

[Croustibat]

Chemically wise it burns a bit faster. But as there is more fuel, it takes longer to burn.

[2stepGoesPowPow]

I'm about to buy my fuel setup for my gt2871 and just started looking into e85, I'm thinking of switching to it. theres a e85 station a half mile from my house :)

[Imarvin240]

if you run E85, would it still be benificial to run water/meth?

[STR8E180]

we use E85 in almost all our workshops cars and have developed this for the S chassis nissans

basically it allows u to fit 2 fuel pumps inside the standard tank then run twin fuel feed lines to the fuel rail so u can be feeding fuel into each end of the fuel rail

http://powertune.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/1/s13_complete.jpg

http://powertune.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/1/s13_front.jpg

[nate1]

^ thats kick ass how much?

[Superaison]

^^ YEA lol how much

[Croustibat]

I think that is quite overkill for anything under 400-450hp, and it does not solve the surge issue. If you do an external bolt on system with surge tank, i might be interested though. I hate when i cant use a quarter of my tank on tracks because it surges in corners.

[2stepGoesPowPow]

if you run E85, would it still be benificial to run water/meth?

good question, i saw someone saying they were selling there meth kit because they switched to e85, also i believe its stated in this thread e85 doesn't burn as hot as gas

[STR8E180]

^ thats kick ass how much?


Powertune - By Brand - Products (http://powertune.com.au/products/by-brand/powertune.html)

[STR8E180]

I think that is quite overkill for anything under 400-450hp, and it does not solve the surge issue. If you do an external bolt on system with surge tank, i might be interested though. I hate when i cant use a quarter of my tank on tracks because it surges in corners.

we find that on street cars we dont have any surge issues which is what we designed the twin pump for, people who want a big fuel system for the street with out having to put up with a surge tank and external fuel pump

if its a track car then we would recommend a surge tank and external pump setup

we offer this bolt on kit skylines
basically its an under car surge tank and external pump bolt on kit

[sil14zenki]

guys running with the switch on the ecu. is it as simple as letting your fuel get low, filling up on e85, flipping the switch and your good to go?
i have enthalpy tune
2871r,dw810inj,255fuel pump,nismofpr,tomei poncams,hks ras,z32 maf
any suggestions? steel fuel lines? and obviously sending out my ecu to get re-tuned

[HKSalex]

i run e85 on my evo. i have ID 1000s and make 480awhp. on a dyno pack. on a stock evo 9 turbo, and stock block, just a few bolt ons, walboro 255, and just cams, and a tune...

[sil14zenki]

i run e85 on my evo. i have ID 1000s and make 480awhp. on a dyno pack. on a stock evo 9 turbo, and stock block, just a few bolt ons, walboro 255, and just cams, and a tune...

no head gasket or studs.... thats impressive

[HKSalex]

no head gasket or studs.... thats impressive

no sir, none of that. i on my 91 map im making 400ish awhp @ 26psi and on e85 im making 480ish awhp at 30psi. but arp head bolts are on order

[s13 loverr]

Does anyone know where to buy drums of e85?

[LuckyX2]

So instead of making my own topic I figured I'd just post here.

I'm looking at an injector/turbo upgrade and a switch to E85 soon after I build my bottom end. I plan on going 10:1 compression, either a GTX2867 or EFR6758, ID1000cc's and an Aeromotive 340lph in-tank pump.

Will this be good for 500whp or so? I'm not worried about the turbos being able to make that power since with 10:1 compression and E85 they should have no problem. What I am concerned about is if the ID1000cc's and 340lph pump will provide enough fuel. The next size up from ID is 2000cc's which I'm concerned I'll have idle problems with so I'd like to stay with the 1000's if I can.

Thoughts?

[LuckyX2]

You guys may also be interested to see that there's finally an E85 pump from Walbro now too...

New E85 Compatible Walbro 485 Fuel Pump! – Dynosty (http://www.dynosty.com/2012/04/new-e85-compatible-walbro-485-fuel-pump/)

[Croustibat]

So instead of making my own topic I figured I'd just post here.

I'm looking at an injector/turbo upgrade and a switch to E85 soon after I build my bottom end. I plan on going 10:1 compression, either a GTX2867 or EFR6758, ID1000cc's and an Aeromotive 340lph in-tank pump.

Will this be good for 500whp or so? I'm not worried about the turbos being able to make that power since with 10:1 compression and E85 they should have no problem. What I am concerned about is if the ID1000cc's and 340lph pump will provide enough fuel. The next size up from ID is 2000cc's which I'm concerned I'll have idle problems with so I'd like to stay with the 1000's if I can.

Thoughts?

I thought IDs also had 1200 and 1600cc injectors ?

1000cc may be a bit limiting, but it depends on the injector duty you aim for, engine and revs you are planning to run. On a CA18DET I would be more concerned about the ecu/injector driver system being unable to drive big low Z injectors.

Fuel pump should do OK.


You guys may also be interested to see that there's finally an E85 pump from Walbro now too...

New E85 Compatible Walbro 485 Fuel Pump! – Dynosty (http://www.dynosty.com/2012/04/new-e85-compatible-walbro-485-fuel-pump/)

I have been using the standard walbro 255 LPH for years now, and it is still working fine.

The major problem with fuel pumps is keeping the fuel pressure high when @ WOT, but it also is a fuel pipe diameter problem more than a fuel pump problem.

[LuckyX2]

I thought IDs also had 1200 and 1600cc injectors ?

1000cc may be a bit limiting, but it depends on the injector duty you aim for, engine and revs you are planning to run. On a CA18DET I would be more concerned about the ecu/injector driver system being unable to drive big low Z injectors.

Fuel pump should do OK.




I have been using the standard walbro 255 LPH for years now, and it is still working fine.

The major problem with fuel pumps is keeping the fuel pressure high when @ WOT, but it also is a fuel pipe diameter problem more than a fuel pump problem.


Nah, they discontinued their 1600's (not sure if they ever had 1200's). So it's either 1000cc or go all out on 2000cc's. And another thing to note is that they're not even really 1000cc since they're 1000cc at 4bar and not 3bar like most other injectors are rated at. I'll be running at 4bar anyway but I'd rather buy a 3bar 1000cc injector and get about 1150cc out of it at 4bar than get the ID's and only have 1000cc at 4bar. ID's are quality pieces tho...

What about these injectors?
120LB 120 LB 1200CC LUCAS DELPHI BOSCH FUEL INJECTOR E85 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/120LB-120-LB-1200CC-LUCAS-DELPHI-BOSCH-FUEL-INJECTOR-E85-/290612006451?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a9d34e33&vxp=mtr)

1225cc @ 3bar should more than satisfy my fuel needs, especially when I turn it up to 4bar. They're cheap at only $65 a piece and name brand, not some shitty redrills. My concern is if they'll fit in the fuel rail and intake manifold though. I'm not too sure of the different types of injectors but these seem to be the same style as the RC Engineering ones marketed for sr20's. I'm assuming just the generic SR top mount rail would work on these?

And as for the fuel pump, I wasn't too concerned about the whole E85 resistant thing. I'm just more excited about having 400lph+ in-tank pumps finally. The walbro 400 and 485 are basically the same but the 485 is "E85 approved" and costs like $80 more ha. I might just throw in the Walbro 400lph since I haven't really read a whole lot about E85 ruining pumps and I'm not too worried about it. Perhaps I shouldn't take that risk on something as important as the fuel system tho... Are there any fitment issues with the 400/485? It looks like they're a little bigger than the traditional 255.

[Vetal]

I think those "LUCAS DELPHI BOSCH" are on the cheap side.
I would really advise to get injectors from Fuel Injector Connection (http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/), I've got set of ~1000cc for V8 from them and they were very equal in flow, unlike set of ~1000cc that I've got from Ebay (on my CA18DET now). Especially since price is almost the same

[LuckyX2]

I think those "LUCAS DELPHI BOSCH" are on the cheap side.
I would really advise to get injectors from Fuel Injector Connection (http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/), I've got set of ~1000cc for V8 from them and they were very equal in flow, unlike set of ~1000cc that I've got from Ebay (on my CA18DET now). Especially since price is almost the same

Why would I buy rebuilt instead of new? I know it's eBay but Lucas/Delphi/Bosch are good OEM names regardless of where you buy them.

My bigger question is if they'll even fit... How do you go about determining the right style injector? I feel like there are a lot of differences out there between various top feed injectors.

[sdrmiami]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/engine2_web.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii319/tripleJs15/Car/IMG_2587.jpg



looking good .. how you been?

[sdrmiami]

i been running e85 for a long time 800whp with 1600cc..

[Pinggg]

Also running E-85 on 1000cc Deatschwerks sidefeed injectors on my fully built 400hp SR.

[LuckyX2]

What pressures are you two running your injectors at?

Also, s15specR, how'd you manage to do 600whp with just the ID1000's? You must have had them at some crazy pressure...

[sdrmiami]

What pressures are you two running your injectors at?

Also, s15specR, how'd you manage to do 600whp with just the ID1000's? You must have had them at some crazy pressure...


Im running mine at 45psi off vacume. my DS on the injectors are around 86ms i am currently doing the vvl swap on my sr and doing a 2.2 (90mm bore) (was 2.1) shooting for 1000whp behind a auto c4 transmission (realisticly 950) and got a custom set or billet 235cc injectors from mike @ moran motorsports. i will keep you guys posted.

[LuckyX2]

Im running mine at 45psi off vacume. my DS on the injectors are around 86ms i am currently doing the vvl swap on my sr and doing a 2.2 (90mm bore) (was 2.1) shooting for 1000whp behind a auto c4 transmission (realisticly 950) and got a custom set or billet 235cc injectors from mike @ moran motorsports. i will keep you guys posted.

When you say off vacuum, do you mean at idle (around 20 mm hg) or when the car is off (0 mm hg)? And that was with your 1600cc injectors right?

[[email protected]]

470whp 398ft lbs @16psi on a base map
Built SR20
Precision 6266
Aem ems
Once I direct wire the fuel pump and replace the return fuel line 30 psi tune will come

[ultimateirving]

470whp 398ft lbs @16psi on a base map
Built SR20
Precision 6266
Aem ems
Once I direct wire the fuel pump and replace the return fuel line 30 psi tune will come

these are awesome numbers for low boost!
i put down 300hp with e85 15psi and a stock sr20 with t28, so thats sweet ur getting almost 500!

[[email protected]]

these are awesome numbers for low boost!
i put down 300hp with e85 15psi and a stock sr20 with t28, so thats sweet ur getting almost 500!

Ya I was surprised well being a base map and all. Timing wasnt messed with it was still in the mid teens and fuel was way rich but knowing it made that power do easier is good to know.
Once I wrap up the return line issue we will hit the dyno again 30psi!!!!!!

[[email protected]]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/snoflake95/Snapbucket/E225B0BC.jpg

[inopsey]

94 octane E10 blended premium looks almost as good as E85 when compared using the mon and aki systems for fuel properties.

im talking about this fuel from petro canada ultra94 it has a mon rating of 101.5. meaning that in japan this would be 101.5 octane gas. compared to non blended v power 93-94 aki with only 98 mon rating. when compared to E85 102-105 mon with a aki of 94-96 it looks very close to a bad batch of E85 performance wise without the negative effects of running E85.
i found this data very interesting with all the debate of ethanol blended gasoline and a decrease in performance due to its lower energy content.


FAQs — Questions, Answers, Octane, Gasoline Basics — Petro-Canada is octane?

Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this chart lists the octane ratings of common fuels and octane boosters used around the world.
http://ethanolrfa.3cdn.net/dd9e74ce1..._rbm6bdgh3.pdf

[LuckyX2]

94 octane E10 blended premium looks almost as good as E85 when compared using the mon and aki systems for fuel properties.

im talking about this fuel from petro canada ultra94 it has a mon rating of 101.5. meaning that in japan this would be 101.5 octane gas. compared to non blended v power 93-94 aki with only 98 mon rating. when compared to E85 102-105 mon with a aki of 94-96 it looks very close to a bad batch of E85 performance wise without the negative effects of running E85.
i found this data very interesting with all the debate of ethanol blended gasoline and a decrease in performance due to its lower energy content.


FAQs — Questions, Answers, Octane, Gasoline Basics — Petro-Canada is octane?

Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this chart lists the octane ratings of common fuels and octane boosters used around the world.
http://ethanolrfa.3cdn.net/dd9e74ce1..._rbm6bdgh3.pdf

Sure it has less energy per gram but when you're burning 25-30% more of it...

You're also not considering the evaporative cooling effects which means that a gasoline based fuel with the same octane rating as E85 would not be able to take as much ignition timing even though they are the same octane.

[inopsey]

Sure it has less energy per gram but when you're burning 25-30% more of it...

You're also not considering the evaporative cooling effects which means that a gasoline based fuel with the same octane rating as E85 would not be able to take as much ignition timing even though they are the same octane.

my fuel economy doesent change more than 10% using e10. (600vs 650km a tank)



when taking about octane there is standardized rating systems (mon ron aki) that are reproducible by anyone using the same conditions for a reason. these ratings are done operating an engine under strict conditions. a mon rating of 105 octane has the same anti knock characteristics weather it is an alcohol based fuel or a petro.

btw i have found when tuning that i have backed off the timing and gained power (afr tuned the same) with this type of fuel indicating that max ve was reached and additional timing had no increase in power.

[Vetal]

Ya I was surprised well being a base map and all. Timing wasnt messed with it was still in the mid teens and fuel was way rich but knowing it made that power do easier is good to know.
Once I wrap up the return line issue we will hit the dyno again 30psi!!!!!!Truly great numbers! What displacement is yours? Is it great turbo that produces such power at such low boost? Or that's not the main reason?

[4x4le]

detonation is caused by hotspots, hot spots can be caused too early ignition timing (which is why people associate detenation with too much timing) or by too lean of a mixture or a combination of both, high egt's in general.

E85 is pretty much fully vaporized by the time the piston is on its compression stroke, it does not light off as quick and has a slower burn. Gas and e85 burn at different temperatures and also take not that the auto ignition temp of gas is MUCH lower than e85.

Comparing these 2 different fuels by their octane rating is like comparing your shit to a tv dinner based on how much corn they contain.

[[email protected]]

my fuel economy doesent change more than 10% using e10. (600vs 650km a tank)



when taking about octane there is standardized rating systems (mon ron aki) that are reproducible by anyone using the same conditions for a reason. these ratings are done operating an engine under strict conditions. a mon rating of 105 octane has the same anti knock characteristics weather it is an alcohol based fuel or a petro.

btw i have found when tuning that i have backed off the timing and gained power (afr tuned the same) with this type of fuel indicating that max ve was reached and additional timing had no increase in power.

both have balls different sport all together, E85 is in its own realm compared to gasoline. the characteristics of it tuning wise are far more in the perforance side. I am seeing 35 degrees on spool up and 30 up top and that you would do with C16 fuel which is 114-116oct and my E85 is only 100-105oct so how does that work in your comparision? it doesnt like 4x4 said vaporization and the timing factor come into play

[[email protected]]

Truly great numbers! What displacement is yours? Is it great turbo that produces such power at such low boost? Or that's not the main reason?

im at 86.5mm bore stock sleeves.
the Precision turbos are leading the way with their line of turbos and are pushing the #'s on many engine combos

[LuckyX2]

Comparing these 2 different fuels by their octane rating is like comparing your shit to a tv dinner based on how much corn they contain.

Lol, well that's one way of putting it...

But seriously, I don't think there's any way pump gas can come close to the power E85 can make. Like [email protected] said, he's running the same timing he'd be running on 115 octane. Congrats on those numbers btw, [email protected] (you need an easier name to type tho haha)

my fuel economy doesent change more than 10% using e10. (600vs 650km a tank)

I was talking about using E85. You have to use up to 30% more fuel for that. MPG doesn't take a full 30% hit however because more power is made and you can cruise at the same speed with less throttle/load.

[inopsey]

detonation is caused by hotspots, hot spots can be caused too early ignition timing (which is why people associate detenation with too much timing) or by too lean of a mixture or a combination of both, high egt's in general.

E85 is pretty much fully vaporized by the time the piston is on its compression stroke, it does not light off as quick and has a slower burn. Gas and e85 burn at different temperatures and also take not that the auto ignition temp of gas is MUCH lower than e85.

Comparing these 2 different fuels by their octane rating is like comparing your shit to a tv dinner based on how much corn they contain.

i see your point when talking turbo engines since lower egt equals lower charge temp, allowing the fuel to further resist knocking/allowing it to act as a higher octane fuel. i am willing to bet that e10 93/94 will out preform non e10 premium fuel since even at e10 there is a cooling effect on the charge on a turbo engine.

in a na engine i want to assume you would not see this variation in knock resistance with a small amount of octane difference since that is the type of engine used for the standard mon ron tests.

[[email protected]]

Lol, well that's one way of putting it...

But seriously, I don't think there's any way pump gas can come close to the power E85 can make. Like [email protected] said, he's running the same timing he'd be running on 115 octane. Congrats on those numbers btw, [email protected] (you need an easier name to type tho haha)



I was talking about using E85. You have to use up to 30% more fuel for that. MPG doesn't take a full 30% hit however because more power is made and you can cruise at the same speed with less throttle/load.

Thanx but it is my name just using @ for A and 0 for o lol

as far as MPG goes it does go down but it also depends on how you drive.
My old Evo had a dual map tune on it 91/E85. on 91 i would average 250-260 a tank and 210-230 on E85.
others with dual map tunes were getting 210-230 on 91 and 150-180 on E85.

driving habits play a huge part in fuel comsumption but thats a different topic lol.

i used half a tank during my tuning session and that was like 25+ pulls and @ 3.67 a gallon thats perfectly fine with me

i see your point when talking turbo engines since lower egt equals lower charge temp, allowing the fuel to further resist knocking/allowing it to act as a higher octane fuel. i am willing to bet that e10 93/94 will out preform non e10 premium fuel since even at e10 there is a cooling effect on the charge on a turbo engine.

in a na engine i want to assume you would not see this variation in knock resistance with a small amount of octane difference since that is the type of engine used for the standard mon ron tests.

it would be pointless IMO with this E10 stuff as you fuel will be drastically different everytime you fill up less so when just going with E85. Yes E85 varies from station but so will your E10 and since its roughly 90% gasoline you wont have the benefits as we do going E85.
Say its E70 on 1 tank and your is E5 on 1 tank. you will be no different then you would have been on a regular gas tune yet I will still be a ton above power wise even with E70 verus the gas tune, make sense?

[LuckyX2]

$3.67 in Cali for E85? Damn. That's the price of 91 here in Rochester currently. And then E85 is like a dollar cheaper...

[[email protected]]

$3.67 in Cali for E85? Damn. That's the price of 91 here in Rochester currently. And then E85 is like a dollar cheaper...

91 is like $4.30 ish right now here

[turbociv910]

e85 is garbage compared to proprietary solvent 200 proof mixed with toulene.(sp)

and its only about a dollar more a gallon, and twice as good. But most people cant buy it in large quantities without some sort of back ground check.

[Croustibat]

Cool story bro.

But this thread is about fuel you can easily get at any pump, that wont need a background check, nor a specific storage area or a specific fuelling system.

[Inabj2]

I been using E85 for three years and it is the reason why my bone stock sr20det with the exception of cams and an oil pan makes (and turbo and fuel obviously) 455.89 rwhp with no issues for 2+ years. (1 year with built motor where my new oil pump turned out defective, I just went back to stock.)

I have 2 walbro fuel pumps, 850 cc injectors, stock, rail stock lines (although I had to replace them recently for other stock lines.) T3/T04r 57 trim turbo set to 20.6 psi of boost, a good road tune (runs a bit rich after 7000 rpms) And other obvious support mods, but E85 related wise, all that was necessary were bigger injectors and an extra fuel pump (I leaned out on one walbro).

The hardest part of the conversion is the tune, parts wise it is stupid simple to convert.


Also when you are tuning for E85 most sensors assume you are running gas. So you do not have to convert the ratios in your head between E85 and Gas. If you are running an actual 10:1 ratio the O2 sensor will read 15:1 ratio (or close to this.) If your sensor is reading 11.5-11.7 to 1 I am actually running somewhere around 7.5 to 1.

Also in 110 degree weather in phoenix my coolant temperature is 165 Fahrenheit, even if I give it a few 450+ whp blasts. 150 in mild winter.

The only drawbacks is that you have to shut off the fuel pump to the car off first, before turning off ignition when parking it. If you do not unburned E85 will seat on the combustion chamber, and if left over night it will slowly seep through the piston rings and contaminate your oil ruining it. I check my oil for consistency before each time I run it. I use 5-40w Diesel oil synthetic from Mobil 1 as this is what works best for the car in my 3+ years.

And this has been my E85 experience with a stock long block sr20det. And after I get a few things ironed out (suspension, transmission), I am hoping to turn output up to 500 rwhp, as I stand I am less then 45 hp away from this.

Looking at Santos dyno, (I had a load based dyno vs inertia type) I believe there is room for me to get more power by advancing timing even more. Hmm.

[4x4le]

Ive never had to deal with turning pumps off prior to ignition. The oil should be warm enough to vape off any e85 in the oil, if not right away surely on the next startup. Water condensates as engines cool down and gets in the oil but evoperates upon warm up as well.

[[email protected]]

Draw back IMO with e85 is the harder cold starts other then that I loved it in my Evo and live it in my SR

[LuckyX2]

Draw back IMO with e85 is the harder cold starts other then that I loved it in my Evo and live it in my SR

Related fact: some (all?) flex fuel vehicles come with a little reservoir for gasoline used in cold starts.

And is there any way people know of to help this issue? More or less of timing or fuel when cranking?

[[email protected]]

Related fact: some (all?) flex fuel vehicles come with a little reservoir for gasoline used in cold starts.

And is there any way people know of to help this issue? More or less of timing or fuel when cranking?

Little more trouble then it's worth to have a start up tank.
I have my timin advanced and fuel is bumped up too still playing with the cold start on the SR the Evo needed 3-4 crank attempts an started up

[Croustibat]

Related fact: some (all?) flex fuel vehicles come with a little reservoir for gasoline used in cold starts.

And is there any way people know of to help this issue? More or less of timing or fuel when cranking?

Not much to do i am afraid.
I found out that cranking a second or two, then stopping, then cranking again starts the car easily. It starts faster than keeping on cranking.

[LuckyX2]

Not much to do i am afraid.
I found out that cranking a second or two, then stopping, then cranking again starts the car easily. It starts faster than keeping on cranking.

I did a google search for "E85 cold start" and came across quite a few people having success with it.

This guy here: E85 Cold Start Issues addressed. - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/open-source-tuning/209908-e85-cold-start-issues-addressed.html) was able to get it to cold start reliably with 3% more fuel at 68F, 30% more at -40F and linear in between. This would be on top of the already 20-30% more E85 map I believe.

[[email protected]]

I did a google search for "E85 cold start" and came across quite a few people having success with it.

This guy here: E85 Cold Start Issues addressed. - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/open-source-tuning/209908-e85-cold-start-issues-addressed.html) was able to get it to cold start reliably with 3% more fuel at 68F, 30% more at -40F and linear in between. This would be on top of the already 20-30% more E85 map I believe.

every set up will vary because the characteristics of the motor compression, motor is tight or loose etc. just have to play with it i havent given it any time really just a 1 time guess mark and it takes me 1-2mins to crank her up but i start her up every 2-3 days lol

[LuckyX2]

every set up will vary because the characteristics of the motor compression, motor is tight or loose etc. just have to play with it i havent given it any time really just a 1 time guess mark and it takes me 1-2mins to crank her up but i start her up every 2-3 days lol

Agreed. I was basically just trying to say that it's gonna take a lot more fuel at start up and that it is possible to get E85 to start up well in the cold. It's definitely going to vary from motor to motor tho.

[[email protected]]

Ya once dialed in its fine I took 2-3 cranks with the Evo cold starts and that was in the winter

[LuckyX2]

Ya once dialed in its fine I took 2-3 cranks with the Evo cold starts and that was in the winter

My SR doesn't even do that on gas lol.

Probably my crappy injectors. I have some ID1000's on the way for when I'm going E85 tho. 10:1 compression ceramic coated JE pistons, GTX2867/EFR6758 and a healthy serving of E85 is gonna make for one hell of a car. So excited...

[[email protected]]

My SR doesn't even do that on gas lol.

Probably my crappy injectors. I have some ID1000's on the way for when I'm going E85 tho. 10:1 compression ceramic coated JE pistons, GTX2867/EFR6758 and a healthy serving of E85 is gonna make for one hell of a car. So excited...


I had rc1000 and she started right up. The sr has 1680's my next block will be 11:1 I didn't do it this time because I already had the pistons

[LuckyX2]

I had rc1000 and she started right up. The sr has 1680's my next block will be 11:1 I didn't do it this time because I already had the pistons

1680's, damn haha. 11:1 would be awesome too. Not too many people around here do higher compression but with E85 it makes lots of sense. 11:1 is what I wanted to do but only Wiseco has that in an off the shelf part. I have heard of some bad experiences with Wiseco so I went with JE. Highest they have available is 10:1 and I didn't have the time (or the money really) to wait on a custom 11:1 piston from JE.

[[email protected]]

We have ran wiseco and arias for a long time.

[LuckyX2]

Perhaps it's more on their motorcycle pistons then? Or maybe just unluckiness?

It was an older motorcycle mechanic who's been in the business for years that cautioned me against Wiseco. Said he's seen a lot of them seize if I remember correctly.

[[email protected]]

Never had a issue in fact wiseco is what's in my sr right now

[LOVERboy]

Okay. My question is, do I have to change the stock runner line or anything like that to run E85?

For the dual map, can I run the car til the other gas is like super super low and just fill it with E85?

Anyone in SoCal know a good E85 tuner?


Sunny D.-

[LuckyX2]

Okay. My question is, do I have to change the stock runner line or anything like that to run E85?

For the dual map, can I run the car til the other gas is like super super low and just fill it with E85?

Anyone in SoCal know a good E85 tuner?


Sunny D.-

Unless you're going for ridiculous power, the stock lines are fine. And yeah, that's a fine way of doing it but the "perfect" way would be to wire in a flex fuel sensor and have an adaptive trim setup based on that. I'll just be going with the run it dry and fill up with the other fuel method haha.

[[email protected]]

Okay. My question is, do I have to change the stock runner line or anything like that to run E85?

For the dual map, can I run the car til the other gas is like super super low and just fill it with E85?

Anyone in SoCal know a good E85 tuner?


Sunny D.-

How much power you want push? Return line can be use but will limit you. I found at 470whp I was pushing it passed its max at 16psi on my 6266. This is with a -8 feed. I would tell you to change the return as its the same amount of work and will only take you a few mins longer since you can route and connect both at the same time.
I did make 560whp on stock lines but that was with c16

Dual map you can run the 91 as low as possible like 40miles once your low light comes on then change over to the e85 map then once half way fill again with e85.
I'll tell you this much I was always on e85 and only went to my 91 map as a back up for emergencies.

Hit up Reggie at OSR in Fontana he tuned mine tell him I sent ya

[slow92]

^^^^
What size line are you using for your return line ?? Do you think that the -8 feed lines are plenty or do you think that you will go larger in the future if you start making more power. I am looking at making over 700hp and I am trying to decide between -10 or -8 feed and a -6 return.

Thanks

[[email protected]]

I'll go 10 if it calls for it but I think I'm fine with my 8 there and back. When I go double pumper I'll bump my feed.
I'm only at 65% duty cycle n base pressure is at 45 psi

[LOVERboy]

Oh I mean rubber hose. Stocks are okay?


Sunny D.-

[LuckyX2]

Oh I mean rubber hose. Stocks are okay?


Sunny D.-

I haven't heard of people having issues with the stock rubber. Just be prepared to change out your fuel filter since E85 is going to clean up a lot of gunk in the tank/lines.

[LOVERboy]

Cool :) sounds good. Thanks :)


Sunny D.-

[Croustibat]

Perhaps it's more on their motorcycle pistons then? Or maybe just unluckiness?

It was an older motorcycle mechanic who's been in the business for years that cautioned me against Wiseco. Said he's seen a lot of them seize if I remember correctly.

Of course he has seen a lot of them seize ... because they were nearly the only ones sold !

A piston is a piston, it seizes when it is not adjusted properly to the block, when the oil squiters are removed, and/or when the tune is wrong, wether they are named wiseco, CP and all.

[STR8E180]

recently setup this fuel system for E85

fuel system consist of

POWERTUNE twin pump fuel kit
this is design to mount 2 walbro 500 hp fuel pumps
as u can see the top of the billet mounting bracket is design so that each pump can have its own fuel line



http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/578154_458329594194415_1417929810_n.jpg

POWERTUNE top feed twin entry rail kit using I.D 2000cc injectors and TURBOSMART fuel reg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/545939_10150870282195520_1236435236_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/294908_454324721261569_1797558530_n.jpg

all the standard fuel lines are replaced with aeroflow fuel lines
each fuel pump runs its own fuel line into each end of the fuel rail
return line is taken from the center of the rail
2 fuel feed lines
1 fuel return line
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/578218_454190507941657_103606457_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/540550_10150992832785520_461643476_n.jpg

[LuckyX2]

Of course he has seen a lot of them seize ... because they were nearly the only ones sold !

A piston is a piston, it seizes when it is not adjusted properly to the block, when the oil squiters are removed, and/or when the tune is wrong, wether they are named wiseco, CP and all.

It's possible that one manufacturer will seize more than another if their documentation is not good. Some pistons expand more than others depending on what they are made of. One piston might need 0.004" clearance but if the documentation is incorrect and says 0.003" then you're at a higher risk of seizing. Perhaps the Wiseco's expand more than other pistons on average and thus are more sensitive to proper clearances?

I'm just guessing here, all I know is that a well respected mechanic who has been around for years and worked for my dad for 8 of those suggested that I stay away from Wiseco. Besides, I was able to get the JE's for not much more than the Wiseco's


STR8E180, that looks like one badass fuel setup there! You'll never be struggling for fuel with that...

Semi off-topic: I had a dream last night that I was filling up with E85 for the first time lol. I really need to lay off this car stuff...
It was $1.81 in my dream and smelled like a sweet menthol/spearmint haha, I wish that was the case! I have heard that E85 can have a bit of a sweet smell to it tho. Maybe that's where my mind came up with the smell seeing how I've never smelled it in person yet.

[Croustibat]

It's possible that one manufacturer will seize more than another if their documentation is not good. Some pistons expand more than others depending on what they are made of. One piston might need 0.004" clearance but if the documentation is incorrect and says 0.003" then you're at a higher risk of seizing. Perhaps the Wiseco's expand more than other pistons on average and thus are more sensitive to proper clearances?

I'm just guessing here, all I know is that a well respected mechanic who has been around for years and worked for my dad for 8 of those suggested that I stay away from Wiseco. Besides, I was able to get the JE's for not much more than the Wiseco's


STR8E180, that looks like one badass fuel setup there! You'll never be struggling for fuel with that...

Semi off-topic: I had a dream last night that I was filling up with E85 for the first time lol. I really need to lay off this car stuff...
It was $1.81 in my dream and smelled like a sweet menthol/spearmint haha, I wish that was the case! I have heard that E85 can have a bit of a sweet smell to it tho. Maybe that's where my mind came up with the smell seeing how I've never smelled it in person yet.

I know a lot of old tuners saying how fuel injection is crap and how carbs are better. Is it ? Of course not. Old, "respected mechanics" often fail at evolving, they have great knowledge on things that became useless and will just say the techs or tools they dont know are shit. Everyone does that actually. People also tend to reject their faults on something else, and it is way easier to accuse a distant piston maker than question your own abilities, or your friends machining job. That is how you get that kind of nonsense from "experienced people". The less you know, the more you are prone to believing them.

Same goes for most of horror stories... the truth is simple, as long as an item sells a lot, it will also fail a lot more than its competitor in volume, but %failure will still be the same.

Wiseco makes good pistons, same can be told from CP and most piston makers.

[4x4le]

recently setup this fuel system for E85

fuel system consist of

POWERTUNE twin pump fuel kit
this is design to mount 2 walbro 500 hp fuel pumps
as u can see the top of the billet mounting bracket is design so that each pump can have its own fuel line



http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/578154_458329594194415_1417929810_n.jpg

POWERTUNE top feed twin entry rail kit using I.D 2000cc injectors and TURBOSMART fuel reg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/545939_10150870282195520_1236435236_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/294908_454324721261569_1797558530_n.jpg

all the standard fuel lines are replaced with aeroflow fuel lines
each fuel pump runs its own fuel line into each end of the fuel rail
return line is taken from the center of the rail
2 fuel feed lines
1 fuel return line
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/578218_454190507941657_103606457_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/540550_10150992832785520_461643476_n.jpg
I love that rail and washer combo. Did those come with the rail? Or are they custom? Im considering switching mine out to that setup now. Are those tophats for the injectors from powertune or id? I dont like the stupid things i had to do to my greddy rail/ manifold to make it ok with id's
I know a lot of old tuners saying how fuel injection is crap and how carbs are better. Is it ? Of course not. Old, "respected mechanics" often fail at evolving, they have great knowledge on things that became useless and will just say the techs or tools they dont know are shit. Everyone does that actually. People also tend to reject their faults on something else, and it is way easier to accuse a distant piston maker than question your own abilities, or your friends machining job. That is how you get that kind of nonsense from "experienced people". The less you know, the more you are prone to believing them.

Same goes for most of horror stories... the truth is simple, as long as an item sells a lot, it will also fail a lot more than its competitor in volume, but %failure will still be the same.

Wiseco makes good pistons, same can be told from CP and most piston makers.
Well said

[s14-365]

Evo Im using e85 with rc1000 injectors

[LuckyX2]

I know a lot of old tuners saying how fuel injection is crap and how carbs are better. Is it ? Of course not. Old, "respected mechanics" often fail at evolving, they have great knowledge on things that became useless and will just say the techs or tools they dont know are shit. Everyone does that actually. People also tend to reject their faults on something else, and it is way easier to accuse a distant piston maker than question your own abilities, or your friends machining job. That is how you get that kind of nonsense from "experienced people". The less you know, the more you are prone to believing them.

Same goes for most of horror stories... the truth is simple, as long as an item sells a lot, it will also fail a lot more than its competitor in volume, but %failure will still be the same.

Wiseco makes good pistons, same can be told from CP and most piston makers.

I understand that but I trust this guy and went with his word. Not to mention I was able to get the JE's which are normally $150-$200 more for the same price. That made the decision a lot easier haha. I'm sure Wiseco's are fine or else they wouldn't still be around but I wanted to go with the JE's. I was just explaining to [email protected] how I wound up with the piston I did; I wasn't trying to start an argument about which piston is better.

Back to E85 now? :)

[JFoxx]

my race motor is getting converted to E85 with tuned down rci 2000cc injectors..... cant wait to get this beast on the track.......

and for those of you talking about water as a product of E85 vs gas, water is a product of any combustion reaction, chemistry basics.....

[LuckyX2]

my race motor is getting converted to E85 with tuned down rci 2000cc injectors..... cant wait to get this beast on the track.......

and for those of you talking about water as a product of E85 vs gas, water is a product of any combustion reaction, chemistry basics.....

I think they're talking about water absorption in the fuel, not water as a combustion byproduct.

SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum - View Single Post - Formic acid? (http://www.srtforums.com/forums/5071949-post1.html)

Details on your motor?

[JFoxx]

Details on your motor?

stroker sr22, darton sleeves, je pistons, bc rods, bc crank, pretty much all hks valvetrain, right now hks gtrs turbo, im going to see how much i can make with that, but most likely ill be switching that with my gt35r twinscroll. looking to make 550ish with that turbo on E85.. (just about everything that can be done to the motor has been done, i just dont feel like listing all the mods.....)

[LuckyX2]

stroker sr22, darton sleeves, je pistons, bc rods, bc crank, pretty much all hks valvetrain, right now hks gtrs turbo, im going to see how much i can make with that, but most likely ill be switching that with my gt35r twinscroll. looking to make 550ish with that turbo on E85.. (just about everything that can be done to the motor has been done, i just dont feel like listing all the mods.....)

Awesome build. May I make a suggestion though? Why not go for a GTX3071 instead of a GT35? Between your extra .2L and E85, the GTX3071 ought to get you to 550whp just fine but will be a lot more responsive. Even a regular GT3071 should be able to do close to 550whp on a 2.2L with E85.

[4x4le]

3071 is kinda mismatched, its like a flip flop of how the 2871 is mismatched. I like (and wish I would have went with) the 3076

[LuckyX2]

3071 is kinda mismatched, its like a flip flop of how the 2871 is mismatched. I like (and wish I would have went with) the 3076

Forgot about the 3076, that'd work too. Basically I just think a GT35 is too large for 550whp on a 2.2L and E85 and he'll be sacrificing a good bit of response. Hell, I'll be shooting for 500whp hopefully with a GTX2867 or EFR6758 on a 10:1 2L with E85. If I can do that (and I believe I can) then a GTX30XX should have no problem getting to 550whp on a 2.2L (8.5:1?)

[[email protected]]

Nope the 35r on e85 will respond well and will make 550 very easy

[4x4le]

I wouldnt count on 500 from the 2867 and Im unfamiliar with the 6758 but it sounds like a similar sized turbo with a slightly larger turbine?


I wish I would have started a build thread on zilvia like i did on the other forums. I dont know If I listed any of the specs of the new engine I working on right now. I wish I would have sold off my 2871 and went to the 3076 and I may later on.....
I went with a t3 divided housing for my 2871R with a UNDIVIDED maxworks manifold and a sound performance quick spool valve. Engine is darton sleeved and bored to 90mm and stroked to 92mm with K1 full counterbalanced crank. 10:1 compression custom made weisco pistons (mofos took 3 months to get designed and made). Oil squirters had to go. Cosworth head gasket. Tial mvs wastegate. Greddy intercooler, greddy IM, greddy fuel rail, aem fpr, in tank walbro feeding inline walbro, 4 bar base fuel pressure, ID1000s. Spitfire coils, highport se-r intake cam, gtir exhaust cam.
Wanted to go for crazy spool/tq from a sr to be able to make good low end tq and didnt want to give up any hp from my last engine setup which was just a 9:1 2.0 with t2 2871r on e85. I was happy with the hp and didnt want to give any of that up, but wanted more power down low so didnt want huge cams, didnt want a bigger or smaller turbo, didnt want to budge on hardly anything so I made the engine bigger, higher compression, and quick spool valve

[4x4le]

Nope the 35r on e85 will respond well and will make 550 very easy

Yea, I know a guy that was making like 630 on his sr with a 35r at a little over 30lbs on 116. He did however have to tear into the engine too often. Just bad luck, dropped valve, lifted the head ect.

I made 488whp on a rb25 at 22-24 psi with a 35r on pump. The customer only allowed me to rev to 7k due to the block being stock, stock oil pump and no oiling mods. Its hp was climbing strait up till the limiter and I know at the same boost level it probably could have made 550 on pump easy, that just isnt what I was paid to do though... That turbo had decent low end response (I know rb and sr is apples to oranges). Even though it didnt "kick in" until later on in the rpms, the power was still stronger that some of the smaller turbo combos I have seen people run.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/Dyno/rb2535rifitweredj.jpg

He was still making 240whp at 4k I would have loved to seen this thing with a built block on e85 on about 30lbs

edit:
On the street, this car felt like its acceleration was very lenier, it didnt get "faster" when the power came on because it just blew the 275s off at all speeds I felt comfortable being a passenger (100mph)

Which brings me to a question for yall doing well over 600, are you running drag radials at all times? My car is a drift car so 600 isnt necessary to me, but it seems that it would be difficult to put down much more than that in our cars without some healthy tires.

[LuckyX2]

Nope the 35r on e85 will respond well and will make 550 very easy

I agree that it will make 550whp and respond well but my point is that a GTX30xx could get to 550whp also and do it with much better response. A GT3071 would come up a little short but the GTX ought to do it and a GTX3076 for sure. It would be more work, but it's not impossible to squeeze 550whp out of a 2.2L on E85 with a GTX30XX.


I wouldnt count on 500 from the 2867 and Im unfamiliar with the 6758 but it sounds like a similar sized turbo with a slightly larger turbine?


I wish I would have started a build thread on zilvia like i did on the other forums. I dont know If I listed any of the specs of the new engine I working on right now. I wish I would have sold off my 2871 and went to the 3076 and I may later on.....
I went with a t3 divided housing for my 2871R with a UNDIVIDED maxworks manifold and a sound performance quick spool valve. Engine is darton sleeved and bored to 90mm and stroked to 92mm with K1 full counterbalanced crank. 10:1 compression custom made weisco pistons (mofos took 3 months to get designed and made). Oil squirters had to go. Cosworth head gasket. Tial mvs wastegate. Greddy intercooler, greddy IM, greddy fuel rail, aem fpr, in tank walbro feeding inline walbro, 4 bar base fuel pressure, ID1000s. Spitfire coils, highport se-r intake cam, gtir exhaust cam.
Wanted to go for crazy spool/tq from a sr to be able to make good low end tq and didnt want to give up any hp from my last engine setup which was just a 9:1 2.0 with t2 2871r on e85. I was happy with the hp and didnt want to give any of that up, but wanted more power down low so didnt want huge cams, didnt want a bigger or smaller turbo, didnt want to budge on hardly anything so I made the engine bigger, higher compression, and quick spool valve


My example build would be Enjuku Racing's 480whp 11:1 E85 SR20 with a GT2871. A GTX2867 with it's extra flow should do better.

Nice build by the way and I believe I've seen your build on another forum (forget which). My biggest curiosity is that spool valve. Did you see any benefit from it? And why do you want to go to a larger turbo after you built your engine trying to keep as much power down low as possible?

[LuckyX2]

Yea, I know a guy that was making like 630 on his sr with a 35r at a little over 30lbs on 116.

This is my point exactly. If there are people making 630hp with the GT35 on an SR (2L?) then he should probably downsize the turbo if he's going for almost 100hp less on a 2.2L.

[JFoxx]

my only thoughts were that i would rather have my setup tuned modestly to make 550 then have my setup maxed out to make it. and im talking RWHP if that makes a difference....

plus i would like to have some +/- play because im trying to match my cars handling with power, and how i like it. because yes there is such a thing as too much power....

[LuckyX2]

my only thoughts were that i would rather have my setup tuned modestly to make 550 then have my setup maxed out to make it. and im talking RWHP if that makes a difference....

plus i would like to have some +/- play because im trying to match my cars handling with power, and how i like it. because yes there is such a thing as too much power....

Makes sense. In that case, perhaps the GT35 is good for you. You wouldn't have to struggle to get to 550whp as much as you would with a GTX30. You'll reach the same power with less psi and ignition advance making it more reliable but as the expense of losing some power down low.

Not the way I'd build my engine but I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of reliability. Personal preference really.

[[email protected]]

Which brings me to a question for yall doing well over 600, are you running drag radials at all times? My car is a drift car so 600 isnt necessary to me, but it seems that it would be difficult to put down much more than that in our cars without some healthy tires.

cars with power will need to run tires with the grip otherwise they are asking for trouble, not saying it has to be a drag radial as the soft sidewall isnt nice in the turns but there are others that arent as bad and even in drifting you need traction in the rear as hard as it may be to believe :ddog:

i personalyl want a little more low end which is why im going 4.6 Gear ratio LOL. then soon ill be building another motor for whenever mine gives up but it will be a 11:1 motor :bite:


sure the 30xx can do it but it will work harder, and put more wear on the turbo as well as the motor. plus depending on what you want too much low end will hurt you as your traction will be down to 3rd and up etc

[4x4le]

Oh, i know traction is indeed good for drifting and my car has good traction and stability in corners however it is easy to overcome the traction limits with the right foot.

As far as why i wish i would have went with a larger turbo, i hardly dout there would be much if any low end performance difference on my setup and i would have a higher top end potential. The turbine housing was 500 for me to put on my used 2871 too. Could have sold the 2871 and took that money and the housing money and got a new 3076. My new engine is not yet running still.

[inopsey]

I went with a t3 divided housing for my 2871R with a UNDIVIDED maxworks manifold and a sound performance quick spool valve. Engine is darton sleeved and bored to 90mm and stroked to 92mm with K1 full counterbalanced crank. 10:1 compression custom made weisco pistons (mofos took 3 months to get designed and made). Oil squirters had to go. Cosworth head gasket. Tial mvs wastegate. Greddy intercooler, greddy IM, greddy fuel rail, aem fpr, in tank walbro feeding inline walbro, 4 bar base fuel pressure, ID1000s. Spitfire coils, highport se-r intake cam, gtir exhaust cam.
Wanted to go for crazy spool/tq from a sr to be able to make good low end tq and didnt want to give up any hp from my last engine setup which was just a 9:1 2.0 with t2 2871r on e85. I was happy with the hp and didnt want to give any of that up, but wanted more power down low so didnt want huge cams, didnt want a bigger or smaller turbo, didnt want to budge on hardly anything so I made the engine bigger, higher compression, and quick spool valve

do you have a dyno graph of this setup? how much power did it put down?

[LuckyX2]

do you have a dyno graph of this setup? how much power did it put down?

My new engine is not yet running still.

I don't think he does...

[4x4le]

do you have a dyno graph of this setup? how much power did it put down?


My new engine is not going yet. The last one I deleted my file of the graph because shortly after tuning it we found that the new dyno needed some calabration and its readings were possibly wrong. The numbers were exaggerated by up to 10% and I made 437rwhp. It was a dyno dynamics. I had the oil pickup go bad and spun a bearing. I never redynoed.

Im sure I have the graph somewhere still but I know I dont have the scan of it and I dont have it hosted anymore

[STR8E180]

I love that rail and washer combo. Did those come with the rail? Or are they custom? Im considering switching mine out to that setup now. Are those tophats for the injectors from powertune or id? I dont like the stupid things i had to do to my greddy rail/ manifold to make it ok with id's

Well said
this is what comes in the rail kit
http://powertune.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/u/fuel_rail_s13-180.jpg


if you buy the injector and rail kit u will get this

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/545939_10150870282195520_1236435236_n.jpg

[STR8E180]

for those people wondering how much power u can make with a standard sr20 bottom end on E85

modifications

Brain Crower 272 intake and exhaust cams
Brain Crower valve spring and retainers
Brain Crower Adjustable cam gear ( exhaust side only )
ARP head studs
Tomei head gasket

completely STANDARD BOTTOM END!!!!!

POWERTUNE steam pipe manifold
Precision 5557 ( .63 exhaust housing )
Tial MVS external gate

fuel system consist of
powertune twin pump kit
powertune top feed rail ( standard inlet manifold )

head bolts starts stretching at 510hp at the rear wheels which is why we upgraded to the ARP items
http://i54.tinypic.com/2m4ympj.jpg

after upgrading the head bolts and head gasket
The result was 525hp at the wheels with a 35psi spike which fell down to a stable 33psi.
http://i53.tinypic.com/rlexjs.jpg

[JDM SPUG]

Just ordered all my Teflon coated lines.

[nickgbmx]

i have a 1991 sentra with a Avenir SR20DET current has 550CC injector and with a GT28RS did 311WHP at 15PSI. looking to hit the 360WHP mark what injectors would everyone reccommend, JWT said use factory R35 injector which i have seen to be flow tested at roughly 560cc not being much of an upgrade. i already have top feed fuel rail walbro 255 etc so only upgrade needed is injectors and a tune. im looking at 750cc low impedance top feed RC does that sound right?

[[email protected]]

i have a 1991 sentra with a Avenir SR20DET current has 550CC injector and with a GT28RS did 311WHP at 15PSI. looking to hit the 360WHP mark what injectors would everyone reccommend, JWT said use factory R35 injector which i have seen to be flow tested at roughly 560cc not being much of an upgrade. i already have top feed fuel rail walbro 255 etc so only upgrade needed is injectors and a tune. im looking at 750cc low impedance top feed RC does that sound right?

550's should support 360 on E85.
i have some 850's for sell if interested only ran on C16.

[turbociv910]

i had 750s in there and was at 90% at 350 on E

[[email protected]]

i had 750s in there and was at 90% at 350 on E
at what base pressure?
with 1000's on 38psi base pressure with 410awhp i was at like 60%

[turbo2nr]

need opinion on re-doing my fuel setup,

motor built ka-t
turbo gt3582r 1.06 divided t3
power goal : 600whp e85

plans for fuel setup:
id1000cc
ams top feed rail
aeromotive fpr
-8feed/-6 return
255 intank
surge/swirl pot
(2) 044 external
(1) fuel filter external
-6 to surge and external pumps
-8 to fuel rail.

think i can get away with only one 044 and id1000cc and make 600whp on that setup?

[bardabe]

need opinion on re-doing my fuel setup,

motor built ka-t
turbo gt3582r 1.06 divided t3
power goal : 600whp e85

plans for fuel setup:
id1000cc
ams top feed rail
aeromotive fpr
-8feed/-6 return
255 intank
surge/swirl pot
(2) 044 external
(1) fuel filter external
-6 to surge and external pumps
-8 to fuel rail.

think i can get away with only one 044 and id1000cc and make 600whp on that setup?
you might wanna go bigger on the injectors, I'd say 1200cc or so.

[[email protected]]

need opinion on re-doing my fuel setup,

motor built ka-t
turbo gt3582r 1.06 divided t3
power goal : 600whp e85

plans for fuel setup:
id1000cc
ams top feed rail
aeromotive fpr
-8feed/-6 return
255 intank
surge/swirl pot
(2) 044 external
(1) fuel filter external
-6 to surge and external pumps
-8 to fuel rail.

think i can get away with only one 044 and id1000cc and make 600whp on that setup?

go double pumper 255's or 1 inline 044.
or get rid of both and run 1 Deatchwerkz or aeromotive intank 300+ pump

i have a DW intank and i have plently of headroom on my set up

[turbo2nr]

but from what i gather when runing a surge thank the 255 in tank becomes useless as it only feeds the surge, so your dependent on the in line pump(s) to get fuel to the rail. with that being said isnt the limit of a singe 044 around 600-700whp? so running 2 044 should be able to handle all the power i would ever want to make ? correct?

also i dont like the overdrive small pumps like aeromotive340 and other small framed pumps, they are prone to overheating and dropping fuel pressure.

[[email protected]]

but from what i gather when runing a surge thank the 255 in tank becomes useless as it only feeds the surge, so your dependent on the in line pump(s) to get fuel to the rail. with that being said isnt the limit of a singe 044 around 600-700whp? so running 2 044 should be able to handle all the power i would ever want to make ? correct?

also i dont like the overdrive small pumps like aeromotive340 and other small framed pumps, they are prone to overheating and dropping fuel pressure.

surge tank i missed but is this for a road course car?
i you feel fine buying 3 pumps thats on you, but it isnt needed then you have to wire in all 3 etc. Im just telling you from personal experiance on 2 E85 set ups i have owned and currently my DW is working like a champ with fuel and there are tons of daily cars running 500 plus with this pump
single DW pump can support over 600
mine is only on 12 volts direct feeding -8 feed line to a -10 rail and 1680 injectors @43 psi FPR. if i add a boost a pump to see 14-16 volts i can push her more which is what i plan to do when i make more power

[240jake]

so what if im looking for a max of 350whp on e85 will my walbro 255 be sufficient, do you think 740cc injectors would do or should i bump up to 850 or 1000cc?

going with an enthalpy e85 tune after i get the supporting parts, thanks.

[Croustibat]

so what if im looking for a max of 350whp on e85 will my walbro 255 be sufficient, do you think 740cc injectors would do or should i bump up to 850 or 1000cc?

going with an enthalpy e85 tune after i get the supporting parts, thanks.

Depends on the engine... For your power goal, on a CA18 or SR20 i can say a walbro and 740cc are enough. If it is a KA-T i dont know.

I am currently getting 1000cc highZ on my CA, but it is so i get some headroom for future plans while keeping injector duty under 80%.

[240jake]

thanks, yeah this is on an s13 sr20, i havent picked up the larger injectors yet so ima go with some 850s for the leg room.

[2stepGoesPowPow]

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[[email protected]]

so what if im looking for a max of 350whp on e85 will my walbro 255 be sufficient, do you think 740cc injectors would do or should i bump up to 850 or 1000cc?

going with an enthalpy e85 tune after i get the supporting parts, thanks.

thats plently, on 1000cc's @410whp with 255 walbro i was only at 65% duty cycle

[smoked240]

Just converted my Rb25 to E85. My setup is.
Aem ems series 2
Aem Wideband
HKS fuel rail
Injector dynamics 1000cc injectors.
Aeromotive FPR
Walboro 255lph

Currently in the process of getting it to run perfect before I bring it to have it tuned this winter. Only problem is I had to downgrade my firmware on the AEM to get it running with a base map someone had.
I think I have it where I can drive it but it's by no means ready to rock.
So far from getting the AEM and learning what little I have already, I am impressed by it.

[rabbit05]

Need some help here, looking for 800hp on e85.

Have:
AEM EMS
Built/Stroked RB25
Precision 6765
Need???
2000cc injectors
Aeromotive eliminator
New Aeromotive fuel regulator
-? Feed/ -? Return
And I'd like to stay on the stock fuel tank.