suspension **** : sways.

[russian]

ok my suspension is in the works, just ordered a bunch of ****, so far what im waiting on and whats sitting in the closet:

tein tie rods&ends

kazama tension rods

2 cusco strut bars F&R



now i need sways so i can put all the **** on at once. i cant deside between

a) suspension tecniques.... good price but,
b) Whitelines.
c) cusco. high dolla. umm expensive.

whats cons of those? experiences? i looked trough search all i found is clearance bull****. need advice yall! :D :rolleyes:



edit:
also wtf, i didnt think stillen made sways, but here (http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_detail.asp?cat=5&subcat=&id=1857&page=8)

[Chernobyl]

a) cons: unversal mounting brackets. The front bar is a bitch to mount using the washers they provide, and the holes on the brackets need to be drilled out farther from the center, as they tend to strip the bolts as one screws them in. Easy solution: use the ST bushings with the stock brackets and bolts, and throw the ST brackets away. Front endlinks are fine. Rear endlinks, on the other hand, run out of thread before they are fully tightened down. I solved this by putting a larger diameter nut between the nut you have to tighten down and the first bushing. Stacked up washers would work there too, but the nut does a better job. Definitely not the best product, but with a little bit of ingenuity (honestly, it doesnt take that much) they fit and work fine. Bonus points for the cheaper price too..

b cons: no first hand experience with these, but in addition to all the endlink hoopla that's been going around, I heard that the powdercoating chips off easily when hit with random road pebbles. You obviously know the adjustability deal, so I wont touch on that.

c cons: like you said, $$$$. Another problem is they are rarely in stock, so you'll be waiting around for them to come from the land of the rising sun. I have no other experience with these, other than I could not find anyone that had them in stock, so I passed.

All in all, I like the ST bars, just wish they were a bit lighter, but what do you expect with a piece of steel? I don't regret the purchase. Hope this helped somewhat.

[BadMoJo]

What about Ground Control sways???

Ground Control Sways (http://ground-control.com/gcnisscat.htm)

I saw these the other day and I have never heard anyone talk about them. Does anyone run these?

[russian]

zaebis, spasibo Chernobyl. ;) i still wanna find out about cusco and whiteline fitment. also stillen makes sway bars and now ground control also....:confused:

[Brian]

cusco - since i have them i can give some advice
yes the price is high but at least i know they are top quality. i bught front and rear bars from Enonvativ Force a while ago. the front bar comes with the bar, the bushings, and 2 little bracket things. the rear bar comes with the bar, and the bushings. i think the price of the set was like 450 or so. 250 for the front and 200 for the rear. i did have to wait a while for them to get here from japan but i think it was worth it.
i really like them because they mount using the stock endlinks. i had to buy the endlinks for the rear from my nissan dealer (which cost like $100) fitment was perfect as expected.
the front one is still in my room, brand new. i was going to use it but do to a certain incident with one of the mounting brackets on my car, i wa not able to put it on. so i have been trying to sell it for like 230 dollars but nobody wants to pay the price.
overall, i would highly recommend the cusco bars.
p.s. if you want to go ahead any buy mine off of me, i would be glad to see it go to somebody who could use it. :)

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by yeswepromise
cusco - since i have them i can give some advice


WHATEVER!! Your car is stock POS! :D :D :D :D :D
:coolugh:

[russian]

thanks for help on these. L:) now all is left is:

stillen sways

ground-control sways

[Dousan_PG]

LARGUS

[sykikchimp]

Whiteline bar fitment is perfect. And they are the ONLY bars that are adjustable for our cars. I would buy whitelines for that fact alone. even if they didn't come with endlinks.

The Stillen bars, are probably just S/T bars that Stillen is selling as thier own. they do that with a lot of stuff.

[240Dave]

Whiteline. Front endlink design is the suck, but rears are fine (just like stock but with better bushings). Find a place that sells heim joints and get one that will work with your front bar and you'll have a best possible setup.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/frontsuspension5.jpg
pic from pdm-racing.com

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by 240Dave
Whiteline. Front endlink design is the suck, but rears are fine (just like stock but with better bushings).

no, not like stock
whiteline adjustable is a "L" type shape bracket
stock is "I" type shape.

japanese sway bar companies (largus, cusco, tanabe, etc) are all "I" type shape like stock.

ive only seen Whiteline use these types of endlinks.

[Brian]

WHATEVER!! Your car is stock POS!
haha yes you are correct. my car is 100% stock.

LARGUS
come on aaron, who is gonna go through the trouble of getting these bars? maybe only a few people.

[240Dave]

Originally posted by dousan36
no, not like stock
whiteline adjustable is a "L" type shape bracket
stock is "I" type shape.

japanese sway bar companies (largus, cusco, tanabe, etc) are all "I" type shape like stock.

ive only seen Whiteline use these types of endlinks.

Rears are just like stock, fronts are the only ones that use the L type shape bracket.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by 240Dave
Rears are just like stock, fronts are the only ones that use the L type shape bracket.

no. on the NON adjustable ones, yes
on the adjustable ones..no

pics to prove (and i used to own them):

http://www.zilvia.net/installs/swaybarrear/whitelinerear2.jpg
http://www.worldwidechang.com/092802/DSC00025.JPG (pic from mav's site)

L shape

stock is "I" type shape:

http://www.planb-attack.com/jon/s14/swaylca.jpg
that is suspension techniques i believe. same type of setup as stock "I" shaped.

im sure we agree, just different ways to describe

[240Dave]

ehh, unforationately we didn't agree :p
I just remembered the rears being different.
Had to go look for myself, hehe :doh:

[sykikchimp]

when you say "L-bracket" that makes it confusing, because the fronts actually use an L type angle bracket.

The rear is just an eye-bolt with a bolt through the bushing.. there really isn't any "L-braket" to speak of.

I've never heard of anyone having issues with the rear bar. Always the front.

How else are you suppose to make an endlink for that type of adjustable bar?

Anyways, the front links are fine. I know plenty of people using these bars with no problems. Installation errors cause problems.

Also, if you run hiem joints, they wear quickly, and will start to rattle. Recommended for race use only, as they require a lot of maintenance, and will need replacement after a while.

--edited--

[Dousan_PG]

ya i dotn know how else to describe it..sorry. just looking at it, that's how it looks
the front is that lame figure 8 design :p blah

anyways..i dont know
the best adjustable sway is like RS*R and SARD.

that's! a top quality adjustable sway bar!!

uses stock endlinks style setup!! WOOT!

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
the best adjustable sway is like RS*R and SARD.


Haven't seen SARD, but I drool over the thought of a set of RS*R I-stabil 10-click adjustable sways

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally posted by yeswepromise

come on aaron, who is gonna go through the trouble of getting these bars? maybe only a few people.


http://www.tougefactory.com/shop/images/largus.jpg

$600 if anyone is really interested and really wants em pm me.

For you cali guys how much can you get em? Just wanna know?

[Dousan_PG]

that to me is a high quailty top notch sway bar. none of this move the links but rather adjust in cockpit. whiteline suckssss

i think RS*R is going to make a s13 model..ill have to ask my friend.

anyways, compared w/ whiteline, id wait for sure.

but the SARD is adjustable but not in cockpit. jack the car up and you turn the end of it or something..i dont remember exactly. i saw a writeup on it in Drift Tengoku a while back. they compared/tested the 2

also Apex'i makes the 'rs*r' styled sway bar for teh FD3s only. FD because Imamura has it on his D1GP/Apex'i Project FD3s

[Brian]

kidynomite - yummmm interesting. where did you get such items? s14 i am guessing?

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
i think RS*R is going to make a s13 model..ill have to ask my friend.


I agree whiteline sucks, but compared to what we have available right now, it's what I went with. It was really either S/T or Whiteline.. cause I'm not paying $400+ for non-adjustable sways.

I got the Whitelines for a deal too.

I WOULD however pay Cusco prices for NICE adjustable sways. Like the RS*R units.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally posted by yeswepromise
kidynomite - yummmm interesting. where did you get such items? s14 i am guessing?

Not mine, I know someone selling em. Good japanese connections I guess.

But ya 600 is just way to much for some sways, rather put that towards coilovers.

And they are for s13s IIRC

[russian]

Originally posted by sykikchimp

Also, if you run hiem joints, they wear quickly, and will start to rattle. Recommended for race use only, as they require a lot of maintenance, and will need replacement after a while.

--edited--

could you elaborate a lil ?:) is it for both s13 and s14? mine is zenki.:rolleyes:

[russian]

i just got my kazama rods in. holy ****in **** they are beeeefy cant wait to put em on tommorow. :boink: :boink:

[sykikchimp]

Heim joints are heim joints.. you can buy just the rod ends from just about anywhere. they are not car specific.

[zenkiDori]

i have only driven an S14 with cusco sways, i plan on getting them. also, look at the diameter each company offers.

[drift freaq]

heim joints on adjustable swaybars are what Quickor Engineering r.i.p. used to sell for 510's , 240z's,2002's etc... back in the 80's great setup. Though its real rough on your chassis because its solid metal.
Word Dousan, Whitelines do not suck.Used properly they are incrediable bang for the buck. They do the job better for a lot less than most the swaybars availible for our cars.
Ya , you guys can go get bent over paying exorbitant prices for JDM swaybars but thats a joke!! You can get JDM coilovers for a more cost effective price than what they charge for JDM sways.
When adjustable JDM bars can be affordable i.e. what a swaybar should cost $125-150 per bar and not some silly stupid price of $300 per bar then they will be worth it.
I would not pay bank for a non adjustable JDM bar either thats just to funny.
once again people are showing just how rediculous the JDM bandwagon has become.

[russian]

i thought whiteline used polyurethane or semi rubber helm joints. am i wrong?:confused:

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by drift freaq

Word Dousan, Whitelines do not suck.Used properly they are incrediable bang for the buck. They do the job better for a lot less than most the swaybars availible for our cars.
Ya , you guys can go get bent over paying exorbitant prices for JDM swaybars but thats a joke!! You can get JDM coilovers for a more cost effective price than what they charge for JDM sways.
When adjustable JDM bars can be affordable i.e. what a swaybar should cost $125-150 per bar and not some silly stupid price of $300 per bar then they will be worth it.
I would not pay bank for a non adjustable JDM bar either thats just to funny.
once again people are showing just how rediculous the JDM bandwagon has become.

WTF are you talking about
whiteline DOES suck. i had them and installed properly and all they were were sh*t in my opnion. sold them. blam back to stock

next up one day..LARGUS
front: 31.5mm
rear: 27.5mm
stock endlink style endlinks. used by many professional drivers (grip and drift)

compare that with whiteline:
front: 27mm
rear: 22mm


note: even PDM uses hiem endlinks..that should give some insite about whiteline ends

as far as your jdm bling
i think its funny because you sell so many SRs with cartune :p talk about jdm bling
hahaha

[russian]

well then cusco is perfect i think its 30mm front 27 rear. pricey tho:)



hey i was gonna get kazama rear arms. are they worth it? i can get project silvia cheaper since i live under 2 hours away from them.

[drift freaq]

quote...[WTF are you talking about
whiteline DOES suck. i had them and installed properly and all they were were sh*t in my opnion. sold them. blam back to stock

next up one day..LARGUS
front: 31.5mm
rear: 27.5mm
stock endlink style endlinks. used by many professional drivers (grip and drift)

compare that with whiteline:
front: 27mm
rear: 22mm


note: even PDM uses hiem endlinks..that should give some insite about whiteline ends

as far as your jdm bling
i think its funny because you sell so many SRs with cartune talk about jdm bling
hahaha]

ok fair is fair dousan we have our opinions, and ya Its fun to mess with you a little sometimes. I also know some guys in Norcal dousan that would challenge you wholeheartedly on your claim of whiteline sucking and they are running whitelines on their cars.
That aside, I am not!!! asscociated with Cartune!!!! and have not been for quite awhile. I have my own sources .
My comment about JDM bandwagon holds. I choose and sometimes sell SR's not because they are JDM but because they are great bang for the buck horsepower.
It has nothing to do with JDM .
If I did not like the engine I would not buy it .
The JDM bandwagon statement you missed the whole point of it.
That is if you go out and buy parts for your car just because its the JDM part. That is JDM bandwagon.
If I can get a killer suspension here for my car that is not going to be JDM I will buy it!! In fact I am!!
Most people would say to me, why buy that when you can get Tein or Cusco or some other Japanese brand ?
Its from Japan so its got to be better than anything we can get. That is JDM bandwagon jumping.
I buy parts not because they come from Japan I buy them based on how well they do the Job I need them to do .
Oh ya don't hit me with this well the Japanese part fits better bull****.
If its designed for the car and designed right it will work. Now if you criticize whiteline for their design you may or may not have a point in your eyes or in another person eyes. Thats fair argument.
But trying to call me a hypocrite for selling Japanese parts is a weak defense my friend. I sell what people buy. If thats being hypocritical in your eyes thats your opinion!
I am not on a JDM bandwagon. If I find a part that is not JDM and it works and does the Job I use it.
Hence my decision to check out Ground Controls with short stroke Koni's which I do not think I will be dissappointed with. Hence my friends decision to run DMS coilovers. Wanna know something ? His car with DMS coils and Whitelines kicks some serious ass on the autox cross course and in the mountains. maybe we should setup a little standoff between his car and yours dousan eh?

[zenkiDori]

so where would you get a largus bar?

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by drift freaq
ok fair is fair dousan we have our opinions, and ya Its fun to mess with you a little sometimes. I also know some guys in Norcal dousan that would challenge you wholeheartedly on your claim of whiteline sucking and they are running whitelines on their cars.
That aside, I am not!!! asscociated with Cartune!!!! and have not been for quite awhile. I have my own sources .
My comment about JDM bandwagon holds. I choose and sometimes sell SR's not because they are JDM but because they are great bang for the buck horsepower.
It has nothing to do with JDM .
If I did not like the engine I would not buy it .
The JDM bandwagon statement you missed the whole point of it.
That is if you go out and buy parts for your car just because its the JDM part. That is JDM bandwagon.
If I can get a killer suspension here for my car that is not going to be JDM I will buy it!! In fact I am!!
Most people would say to me, why buy that when you can get Tein or Cusco or some other Japanese brand ?
Its from Japan so its got to be better than anything we can get. That is JDM bandwagon jumping.
I buy parts not because they come from Japan I buy them based on how well they do the Job I need them to do .
Oh ya don't hit me with this well the Japanese part fits better bull****.
If its designed for the car and designed right it will work. Now if you criticize whiteline for their design you may or may not have a point in your eyes or in another person eyes. Thats fair argument.
But trying to call me a hypocrite for selling Japanese parts is a weak defense my friend. I sell what people buy. If thats being hypocritical in your eyes thats your opinion!
I am not on a JDM bandwagon. If I find a part that is not JDM and it works and does the Job I use it.
Hence my decision to check out Ground Controls with short stroke Koni's which I do not think I will be dissappointed with. Hence my friends decision to run DMS coilovers. Wanna know something ? His car with DMS coils and Whitelines kicks some serious ass on the autox cross course and in the mountains. maybe we should setup a little standoff between his car and yours dousan eh?


dave: your friend comment against me
my car isnt setup for that kind of stuff. c'mon you know that
and im not the kind of guy that you are 'dood, i challenge you..no wait i challenge my friend to challenge you'. c'mon man. does your buddy even know?

if you are so insecure to have to challenge me to prove your point, whatever you win. i got better things to do then talk internet tough 'im better then you' mentality. i HOPE to think you are more mature then that.



i drift because i love it. not because ithink my car or my skill is better then someone elses. im not out having my FRIENDS (not me) challenge someone. c'mon dave, are you 10 years old? please. grow up.

you should have more confidence in yourself and be out there because you love it, not because you are anti-jdm or whatever that is. blah

stop acting like a little kid.

[drift freaq]

quote dousan....[if you are so insecure to have to challenge me to prove your point, whatever you win. i got better things to do then talk internet tough 'im better then you' mentality. i HOPE to think you are more mature then that.



i drift because i love it. not because ithink my car or my skill is better then someone elses. im not out having my FRIENDS (not me) challenge someone. c'mon dave, are you 10 years old? please. grow up.

you should have more confidence in yourself and be out there because you love it, not because you are anti-jdm or whatever that is. blah

stop acting like a little kid.]

aaron, I am not insecure I was just throwing that in there because there is a difference of opinion and that is sometimes better tested in the real world than in discussion.
I was not trying to be I am better than you internet tough. I am only trying to bring balance to our world of performance.
If I had a car currently driveable I would be out there having fun and competeing for the sheer adrenaline charge of competition.
I am not so much anti JDM as I am anti bandwagon without knowledge.That is my main beef.

I choose the suspension I am trying based on a lot of research and thought.
Its also why I will be running Whitelines with heim joints. I happed to like the idea of adjustable roll stiffness. You know very well roll stiffness is very important in drifting.
I did single you out today for the sake of a lot of the time you talk very pro JDM.
Excuse me for making an example of you. maybe It was not fair to you. I apologize for that.
Aaron , I am in the music business besides cars.
If you think I lack confidence well then I should not even bother with the music business , hahahhahaha.
If you don't have confidence you cannot even be in the music business there is no room for people without confidence.
None the less, I have struggled over the last year to find and setup the car I want to run. I had the perfect car .It was totaled by a uninsured driver.
I thought I had the right car but it became to extensive a proposition so I was back to square one.
Right now I am putting together all the parts and looking for the chassis.
I will be out at events next year, believe me. Charlie and several other people have asked me to come out and participate. I wholeheartedly want to.
I am a person who does not like to do things part way. So when I do it will be the way I want it.

no hard feelings:bow:

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by drift freaq
aaron, I am not insecure I was just throwing that in there because there is a difference of opinion and that is sometimes better tested in the real world than in discussion.

funny because i already said i have FIRST HAND expirience with whiteline. for over 6 months. did you have first hand or did your friend? research and and real world. i had real world, did you?

Its also why I will be running Whitelines with heim joints. I happed to like the idea of adjustable roll stiffness. You know very well roll stiffness is very important in drifting.


yeah i have very good and adjustalbe roll stiffness with my current setup with STOCK SWAY BARS. go look at pics. not too many cars lift a wheel mid drift on coilovers and minor suspensoin bracing. talk about stiffness.


I did single you out today for the sake of a lot of the time you talk very pro JDM.



i talk because i know. i have friends and know people in japan who are good friends who give me info details and whatever else i want to know about a good setup. so it comes FIRST HAND knowledge. not posing


]Excuse me for making an example of you. maybe It was not fair to you. I apologize for that.
Aaron , I am in the music business besides cars.
If you think I lack confidence well then I should not even bother with the music business , hahahhahaha.
If you don't have confidence you cannot even be in the music business there is no room for people without confidence.
None the less, I have struggled over the last year to find and setup the car I want to run. I had the perfect car .It was totaled by a uninsured driver.
I thought I had the right car but it became to extensive a proposition so I was back to square one.
Right now I am putting together all the parts and looking for the chassis.
I will be out at events next year, believe me. Charlie and several other people have asked me to come out and participate. I wholeheartedly want to.
I am a person who does not like to do things part way. So when I do it will be the way I want it.

no hard feelings:bow:

good for you.
waiting for you to show at an event. you've otld me lots of drifting stories about touge and the mountain days so i hope it shows in the track that expirience because ill be the first in your car if you really are as good as you've told me

peace.

-aaron

[drift freaq]

quote dousan....[i talk because i know. i have friends and know people in japan who are good friends who give me info details and whatever else i want to know about a good setup. so it comes FIRST HAND knowledge. not posing]


I have never said you were posing aaron.
If I had known when I picked this handle for a screen name back in 2001 it was going to raise so much hassle from people I would have picked a different handle.
I do like drifting and I am a little crazy. hence the screen name.
If you think I don't have knowledge well thats your opinion.
If I did not know I would not talk. I have friends who give me info and details too aaron,besides my first hand experience with some setups.
Your experience with Whitelines for whatever reason does not make the definitive answer .
especially when I have talked to other peope that have ran them and spoke otherwise.
One mans opinion does not make a complete answer.
When 20 or more people come out and say whiteline sucks then your statement about Whiteline might hold more relavance.

As it is( from my point of view) it is one mans opinions against a lot of favorable opinions.
Now don't get offended over that.

I have first hand experience with Koni's. Which is why I am choosing them.
I offered a perfectly good explanation with an apology for using you as an example and you come back on the defensive. hmmm now who is being mature now aaron.
You did not need to make such a defensive response after my last post aaron . Yet you did come back that way even when I gave you your due.
I have done what I have done when it comes to driving and there are people out there that have been with me and seen. I am not proclaiming to be the greatest or even great.
There is always someone better out there. Plain and simple. I told you about that stuff because it was exciting for me and I wanted to share.
I am sure you share some of your experiences with people as well.
there is another person on this board who is very young and a good friend of yours that has been on a crusade to call people posers.He is even supposed to be a good drifter.
He does not know these people but he does it none the less .
Fact is you call people posers when you don't really know them you run the risk of seriously losing face. It is foolish and immature.
Please do not let yourself fall into the catagory he has reserved for himself.
You have never seen me call anyone a poser why ? Because I do not know these people well enough to call them a poser.
peace

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by drift freaq
I have never said you were posing aaron.

yeah i know you didnt, i never said you did. im just saying i have first hand, jus tnot talk, and im not saying you are just talk, i said i know firsth and about whiteline. that's it!!!


Your experience with Whitelines for whatever reason does not make the definitive answer .
especially when I have talked to other peope that have ran them and spoke otherwise.
One mans opinion does not make a complete answer.
When 20 or more people come out and say whiteline sucks then your statement about Whiteline might hold more relavance.



funny thing is.....LOTS of people agree with me. do some research.


I have first hand experience with Koni's. Which is why I am choosing them.



um..yah. good for you. but twhat does your koni setup have to do with sway bars???
wtf..stay on topic man!!



I offered a perfectly good explanation with an apology for using you as an example and you come back on the defensive. hmmm now who is being mature now aaron.
You did not need to make such a defensive response after my last post aaron . Yet you did come back that way even when I gave you your due.
I have done what I have done when it comes to driving and there are people out there that have been with me and seen. I am not proclaiming to be the greatest or even great.
There is always someone better out there. Plain and simple. I told you about that stuff because it was exciting for me and I wanted to share.


man, i NEVER insulted you. if you took as that, sorry! haha..chill man, you know me in person and we've met lots of times. you know im not like that. if i am, just dont talk with me. no worries man, i am super happy at meets with the people i talk with. im friends with alot of people and have a great time. if you feel im a prick, well no worries, just avoid me!


I am sure you share some of your experiences with people as well.
there is another person on this board who is very young and a good friend of yours that has been on a crusade to call people posers.He is even supposed to be a good drifter.
He does not know these people but he does it none the less .



if your talking about my good friend, lindsay (dorifto180sx) but dont have the BALLS to say it, fuck off man. you've never met him or know him in person. so i HOPE HOPE HOPE you arent talking about him becuase i hate pussy footers. say it or dont say it. if you dont have the guts to say the person's name and confront them you shouldnt say anything at all, ESPECIALLY if you've never met them.


Fact is you call people posers when you don't really know them you run the risk of seriously losing face. It is foolish and immature.
Please do not let yourself fall into the catagory he has reserved for himself.
You have never seen me call anyone a poser why ? Because I do not know these people well enough to call them a poser.
peace

i never called you a poser. or many people at all. so..i dont know what you are talking a bout. i hang out w/ lots of good folks, whether they really do whatever or not, its cool with me. so...i dont know what your deal is dave. really. but whatever works keep it going man.

the people i DO call poser are my good friends. and you know what, they laugh because they knows its true and they are my good friends. :) and we laugh and joke about it. why? because no hard feelings, its all good and part of life as friends.


keep smiling and chillin. see ya...well next meet i guess
good luck w/ the music stuff. i know you've been into it for quite some time.

peace,
aaron

[SimpleS14]

These are some very good post.....

[DoriftoSlut]

Meh, people who don't know me think that I am an asshole elitist or whatever. I don't really care. I know That you were talking about me Dave, but i don't care either. I don't even remember what i said or when i said it, but i do know i said something to piss you off. And you must have pissed me off to make me say that. But, funny how i don't JUDGE you by an internet forum, yet YOU hold a grudge over a discussion (it was about seats wasn't it) that happened months ago. Ah, im sure you can provide the exact date every time i called someone a poser or whatever.

Oh and the young comment? Pleeeeaase... I have been drifting before i had my license. IN FACT, i learned how to drift a FF car (through rallying) before i had a license. Don't make age an issue here just cause some people are older than others. Does Rubins Barrichello tell JPM that he doesn't know sh!t cause he is a younger driver? Ummm....

[Zemus]

The reason would rather buy stuff from here in the states is becuase of the suport, think if you **** up a JIC coilover, you are out of a coilover and need a new one (depending..). To bad im a freaking hipocrit, and im getting JIC :-D.

Here is my 2cents

If it's bomb, keep it on,
if it's crap, bring it back

[sykikchimp]

I have first hand TRACK experience with whitelines, and the endlinkse work fine. They do the job perfectly IMO. They could be better compliance wise, but it's a compromise.. Like buying a set of S14 seats instead of Race buckets. S14 seats are poly endlinks (whiteline), Racec buckets are Heim Joints.

Whiteline bars not made for drifting, and they aren't really made for cars with spring rates higher than what Whiteline would put on the car. Sway bar tuning is not really any different than spring tuning. There is no way you can buy a non-adjustable bar that will work perfectly with an aftermarket suspension setup unless it is made by the suspension manufacturer, and tuned for the suspension. Thats why having adjustable bars is absolutely neccesary IMO. I would assume the Largus bars are made for drifting with high spring rated coilovers, with heavy damping, being that friggin huge. Especially having such a larger rear bar. Car will oversteer like crazy with that setup.

Dousan - How do you have adjustable roll stiffness with non adjustable swaybars?

Russian - The whiteline endlinks are not like Heim joints (spherical rod ends.. same thing)
these are Adjustable Spherical rod end (heim joint) end links:
http://www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/mvc265.jpg (from Mazdatrix.. these would probably work fine.)

If you want to build them yourself:

http://www.bakerprecision.com

Part #
2ea. JMX6T - FK Chromoly Spherical rod end 3/8" bore, load 9500lbs, MALE 20.25
2ea. JFX6T - " " Female 20.25
2ea an316-6 - 3/8" JamNut ~$.50
(you may also need the little sleeves that protrude from the bearing as to allow for comlete range of motion of the bearing, but I forgot to get that part#..)
Pros.. Less slop and more predictable response, and Adjustability so that you can remove any preload from the sway bar for Corner weighting (this is THE #1 reason for these).
Cons: More maintanence (Teflon coating helps dramatically here), increased Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH)


MOD MODE - Take your bickering to PM's. I won't tolerate any more off topic BS in this thread.

[Dousan_PG]

mm i dnot know
but i have done quite a many grip events and i am beyond pleased w/ my car. it handles wonderfully in grip (no drift at all) and for my setup, i find it very neutral. there are a few things that need some fine tuning for grip but its not bad. going touge (no drift) is a lot of fun and the car handles really well. i cant complain. too bad your arent in cali, i'd let you drive it at the track and see what you think...

SHOULD be about same as your man, we have the same parts basically (suspension pieces and engine power). so if you say my setup sucks or isnt tuned right, you are saying the same to your car :p hahahaha

i hope to do some autox soon when i get a free weekend one day..(dreaming). i know ill get raped in my class but i just love to go drive.

[sykikchimp]

lol.. never said your setup sucks.. I had the stock sway bars with the JIC's, and it wasn't a bad setup. I needed a bit more roll stiffness though, as on certain turns, at certain tracks, I would get into the bumpstops in the rear of the car. Since I put the whitelines in, that solved the problem.

I can tune the car for oversteer or understeer using the endlinks positions, and I can tune the rate of the dampers to the track harshness. I will probably be buying a softer set of springs (7,5) pretty soon for more rough tracks. LMS was bit jittery in some spots b/c of giant patches in the track.

I was simply pointing out that you don't have adjustable roll stiffness with the stock bars. If you Preload the bar by shortening, or lengthening one side of the sway bars endlink, your car will have a higher roll stiffness in one direction making for eratic cornering characteristics. This CAN be a good thing if your on a track with corners in a single direction, but that is better adjusted with different spring rates to help with trasient roll response.

[Dousan_PG]

yeah i understand that.
but my person expirience, over 1 year with whiteline (installed properly and all that whoopla--after w/ it installed badly for a couple months) i was never pleased nor impressed. my friend drove my car both times as well (before and after) and felt the same.

ive been far happier with the stockers. the adjustability is nice but its not something that i am too concerned with.

bumpsteer in the rear issue will be corrected soon :)

ya the tracks here (not cone dodging) is quite technical. and not just one direction.

[HaLo]

Very interesting posts guys!!! Read up everything! :)

Now with my question, addressed to sykikchimp:

You were saying that Whiteline bars aren't good for high springrates cars. My current setup has 425/375 Ground Control Springs with KYB AGX and stock sways. Basically, if I wanted sway bars, Whiteline wouldn't last on my setup? What would be good, keeping in consideration that I compromised for s14 seats with a 3 point harness instead of a race bucket?

[Zemus]

Just a note: I just bought a stock hicaus sway bar, and going to put on new endlinds cuz im sure mine are crapy, whats your guy's 2cents on that?

[sykikchimp]

HaLo - 425/375 isn't really that high. The whiteline bars will work fine for that. I don't think they would help a whole lot if you had 600+ lb springs. I've NEVER heard of an anti-roll bar breaking, or failing. So I wouldn't worry about that with any setup.

The point of the above post was to point out that with adjustable roll bars, it doesn't really matter what spring rates you go with. You can get springs that allow for maximum traction on track A, and a different set on track B (b/c of different track conditions), and allow the roll bars to manage over/understeer by adjusting them.


Honestly with the rates I have on my car, 8K(447)/6K(335), It was hard to even notice the addition of the whiteline bars. I still have a bit of roll, but the car reaches it's static roll point sooner, which allows for better transient response for switchbacks. The additional roll stiffness also helps with having limited suspension travel in the rear. Now the swaybars maintain the static roll while allowing the springs to keep enough compression to avoid bottoming on track irregularites (while turning). With the Stock bars, I felt like the springs had to do a bit to much work maintinaing the static roll themselves, and didn't allow for enough travel to absorb those mid-corner bumps. All very subtle diffrences, but they make the car more predictable on the edge.

I hope that made sense...

edit - to "is" in the first paragraph

[HaLo]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
HaLo - 425/375 is really that high. The whiteline bars will work fine for that. I don't think they would help a whole lot if you had 600+ lb springs. I've NEVER heard of an anti-roll bar breaking, or failing. So I wouldn't worry about that with any setup.

The point of the above post was to point out that with adjustable roll bars, it doesn't really matter what spring rates you go with. You can get springs that allow for maximum traction on track A, and a different set on track B (b/c of different track conditions), and allow the roll bars to manage over/understeer by adjusting them.


Honestly with the rates I have on my car, 8K(447)/6K(335), It was hard to even notice the addition of the whiteline bars. I still have a bit of roll, but the car reaches it's static roll point sooner, which allows for better transient response for switchbacks. The additional roll stiffness also helps with having limited suspension travel in the rear. Now the swaybars maintain the static roll while allowing the springs to keep enough compression to avoid bottoming on track irregularites (while turning). With the Stock bars, I felt like the springs had to do a bit to much work maintinaing the static roll themselves, and didn't allow for enough travel to absorb those mid-corner bumps. All very subtle diffrences, but they make the car more predictable on the edge.

I hope that made sense...


That makes a whole lot of sense to me!! I just wanted to be sure to keep my options open. Do you use the HIEM endlinks?

[sykikchimp]

not yet.. I'm not going to deal with them, until I'm ready to corner weight the car. As you can see from the above post, I've already done the leg work on what parts are needed.

The only tricky thing about using Heim joints is how to mount them to the control arm. If you already bought the whiteline bars, you can use the supplied L-bracket, and bolts (why I chose 3/8" bore). If you don't have the whiteline endlinks, then you would have to fabricate some sort of mount to the control arm.

btw - this is ONLY for the front. The rear has adjustable pre-load as is. If you want to put heim joints there for the increased responsiveness, then you would have to fabricate a bracket for that would serve the same purpose as the front, just that it would mount underneath the arm instead of on top.