Engine Build List, almost done.

[weirdstyles.net]

So I found a "super cool" engine shop today. Its actually within walking distance from my house! I've known about the shop, but I didnt know they played with 4cyls! As I walked in, he was just finishing witha SR20DET block, sent in from SKR (assholes)!! Long story short, turns out I reunited the owner and my Dad who were best friends when they were about 18, and found out they need a site. So a lil exchange of services and I should be in the business. Ok, I have Lisa at Fonse Performance asked me to find these parts for my DOHC, coming soon, to build the fauker. I think I have done good so far, been two hours already and only two sites have really helped me. RaceEng.com and ImportPerformanceParts.com, let me know what you think and if you can help me complete the list:


Not Found
Cam Bearings
Camshaft
Oil Pump Screen
Timing Chain Guide
Rod Bolts
Rod Nuts
Head Bolt Set
Keeper Set?
Push Rods
Rocker Arm Kit
Poly locks
Intake Guide/Liners
Exhuast Guide/Liners
Valve Stem Seals
Guide Plates
Valve Spring Shims


Found @ RaceEng.com
Connecting Rods - CR-B93774B CROWER BILLET ROD:NISSAN KA24 $665
Retainers - FR-E11021 TI RETAINERS:NISSAN KA24DE $12.43 EA
Pistons - XT-554P895 NISSAN 2.4(KA24DE):89.5mm/9:1 $409 SET
Piston Ring Set - RA-RS8950 1x1.2x2.8mm RING SET:89.50mm-STD $96 SET


Found @ ImportPerformanceParts.com
Rod Bearings - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - RBD30-HP $59
Main Bearings - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - MBD30-HP $75
Lifters - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - LIFD31 $13.00
Intake Valves - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - IVD31 - $9.00
Exhaust Valves - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - EVD31 - $12.00
Crank Shaft - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - CSD28L - $249.00
Freeze Plug Set - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - EPSD15 - $7.00
Complete Gasket Set - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") -CGSD31L - $130.00
High Vol Oil Pump - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - OPD-31-HV - $199.99
Titanium Retainers - See: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/ferrea-titanretainers.html -E11021 - $199
Valve Springs - See: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/ferrea_vsnissan.html - S10043 - $242.00
Timing Chain Kit - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - CTKD31 - $229.00


Found these, decided to list for reference
Complete Engine - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - CED31 - $1832.00
Short Block - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - SBD31 - $817.00
Cyl Head w/ Valves - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - CHVD31 - $460.00
Comp. Head w/Cam - 240SX KA24DE 2389cc(145.7") 1991-94 16 VALVE; DOHC 4; F.INJ. 89mm(3.504") 96mm(3.78") - CCHD31 - $723.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes: Valves also found by Manley
Valve Springs also found at RaceEng.com

[weirdstyles.net]

omg, no one?

Can someone atleast let me know about importPerformanceParts.com's reputation. Anyone bought from there, any thing I can look for?

Do you know of other companies, or have had expereince? What would you like to do? Come now, I know my engines, but when it comes to building them, im a little in the dark. Just a lil help?

[Andy5]

uh, you have a real big pocket and should send some of it my way :D Talk about a high HP KA motor :\ man you aren't leaving any bit stock are you......

[240Dave]

What are your plans for the motor? With all that, you may as well get even lower compression pistons and slap a huge turbo on...

[weirdstyles.net]

Leave something stock? Not if I can help it. The prices listed are totalling near 3k and I havnt finished. But remember, this is retail price, hopefully the shop can get the parts for cost.

Lower comp, big turbo. Yes and Kinda. Cant go TO big! The pistons listed there are bull****, I mean the exist, but they are there for financial guestimation. I will have valley pistons to lower the compression. We are discussing the C/R ratio and other bull**** tommarow morning.

I think the following


Rocker Arm Kit - See Camshaft answer...

intake guide/liners - Stock i guess?

exhuast guide/liners - Stock i guess?

Valve Stem Seals - Stock i guess?

Guide Plates - WTF are these?

valve spring shims - Arent these universal?


Along with all the other head/valve bullsh*t would be easier/simpilar to order as a complete head, and just swap the shaft and springs? No/yes?

[FRpilot]

wasn't there a thread somewhere discussing camshafts. go with the $600 jwt ones. those seem like the best but expensive.

[weirdstyles.net]

sh*t thats RIGHT, thank FRpilot... way to save the day

oh, my dreams of this motor are mainly auto-x, but I understand I will be eliminated due to the ammount of work going into the engine, i guess. But I will be turbo-charging, roughly one year after completeion of the engine build.

Question, if/when the compression is lowered, if the vehicle remains N/A (for that year) will I notice a huge loss in power?

and how could i forget PDM?1

[240Dave]

If it runs, use 87 oct fuel (heh), yes you will likely loose a lot of power. Can't go halfassed on something like this :p

[weirdstyles.net]

shizzle...I wanna get this **** done, but its steps. Motor first, buy the car second, turbo charge third.

You see its all a project, I still have my SOHC. What it looks like now is Engine Build, Turbo (probably Nsport Stage I) then purchase the car. A year+ project, at least.

edit: financal planning, looks like 4 months of budgetting for the engine alone... but it oh so worth it. And with luck, working closely with the shop and all the prices should drop dramtically...

[kandyflip445]

http://www.ka24de.com/

They have the head bolt set, keepers(retainers on the site). The valve stem seals should be fine OEM. The timing chain guide should be OEM too. Push rods???? I wasn't aware our cars had them....:wtf:

Could you elaborate on the intake guide/liner and exhaust guide/liner? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[kandyflip445]

Crower says the connecting rods come with rod bolts.

[kandyflip445]

If you are gonna put this much work into the engine you should go with lower comp. pistons when you build it up. You will feel it be a little more sluggish but as long as you aren't racing it really shouldn't matter that much. The power loss won't be HUGE but it will be noticable.

Sorry about the multiple posts. I forgot about the edit button and I'm too lazy to fix it now....:D

[240Dave]

Actually, I'm a pretty dumb guy...
Just run 87 oct and (the part I forgot) change your timing and it shouldn't run too bad. I can't remember what stock compression is but I think it is 9.5:1 right? If you go to 8.5:1 (what psi240sx ran on his 400+ hp s14) I think it should still work with ****ty fuel and retarded timing right???

[weirdstyles.net]

im pretty sure we DONT have push rods, she handed me a generic list of bull****.

Yes for got to take the rod bolts out, crower does supply them.

Thanks for the site

I dont think the lack of power should kill me too much.

Have no clue what the guides are, once again, a generic list of shizzle. I didnt get to meet with her, she is preparing for Huricane Isable, which I probably should too! But we will see....

word

ps. thanks for the site

[weirdstyles.net]

Going to upgrade to the pistons, rods, valves, springs, retainers from KA24DE. They atleast offer description and specs regarding the parts.

Sub Total (retail) - 3112.68

The parts should take about four months of saving. As far as I know, the labor will be completely covered, but we are still in negotiations. I am also, whether or not there will be a discout, going to carry Fonse Performance as my main sponsor. They are looking to advertise for Imports, so I figured me slapping a viynal on my car wont tear it up. The plans thus far.

October '03- Purchase used engine, preferably with under 80k

Feburary '04 - Purchase Engine Build parts, send it all over to Fonse

June '04 - Purchse 92/93 Five speed 240SX, Insert engine here. Start driving the damn thing...finally!

December '04 - (With gutted engine bay) Send car for Paint w/ GP Sport Full kit (either Onyx Black or a Dk Green Pearl or Electron Blue Pearl)

April '05 - Stuff as much air in that biatch with a heaping dose of FI

So hopefully, within a year and three months, my new project should be rolling nicely. That is the main line of my project, supposing all goes well. This may be expidited with some "crash cash", which is money I earn from websites, may shorten the time by 3 to 4 months depending on circumstances. After all this its on to wheels and tires, then save a bunch for a coil over kit and some suspension goodies. Then its all play time, with random bullsh*t here and there.

edit: here Excel doc, to make things easier"
http://home.comcast.net/~Weird240Styles/engine.xls

[andrave]

if you don't mind regrinded cams pdm racing's have a significant economic advantage over the other brands.

As for engine parts, I've been looking at pistons myself. You have 9:1 listed, where can you find 8.5:1 and if I'm looking at like a 400 hp or more engine... I want 8.5:1.

I'm hoping that crower will come out with econo billets for tha ka, rods are so expensive....

Also I didn't see an upgraded headgasket in your list either, you will probably want an aftermarket one to hold some boost.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by andrave
if you don't mind regrinded cams pdm racing's have a significant economic advantage over the other brands.

As for engine parts, I've been looking at pistons myself. You have 9:1 listed, where can you find 8.5:1 and if I'm looking at like a 400 hp or more engine... I want 8.5:1.

I'm hoping that crower will come out with econo billets for tha ka, rods are so expensive....

Also I didn't see an upgraded headgasket in your list either, you will probably want an aftermarket one to hold some boost.

The 8.5:1, I have change my list, are listed at KA24DE.COM. As for the head gasket, Im looking for one of the 2mm metal head gaskets, but only found em for theSR20...Ill end up with copper probably...

Ill probably go with custom cams, gives me flexibility and what have you...

*bling*

[andrave]

I emailed raceeng.com, they have some .43 inch aftermarket headgaskets for the KA that are advertised for use with turbo charged engines, so I'm gonna find out about that.
Copper headgasket would be a bad idea for a street car.

[240Dave]

"Copper headgasket would be a bad idea for a street car."

This is probably a dumb question, but...why would it be bad for a street car?

[kandyflip445]

From what I've read generally KA-T ppl stick with the OEM gasket. Obviously of very good quality.

[GlacierFreeze]

If you're buying all new stuff for the engine, why get one with under 80k? Buy one for reeeeal cheap with 150k+ miles from a junk yard, put the pistons, rods, and everything else you're buying new in it and you've got yourself a brand new built engine for a little less.

Oh yeah bore the cylinders .020 over and get the pistons that much oversized.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by GlacierFreeze
If you're buying all new stuff for the engine, why get one with under 80k? Buy one for reeeeal cheap with 150k+ miles from a junk yard, put the pistons, rods, and everything else you're buying new in it and you've got yourself a brand new built engine for a little less.

Oh yeah bore the cylinders .020 over and get the pistons that much oversized.

I totaly understand your concept but this is sort of a one shot deal. Money is hella tight, if I purchase a 130k engine, and find out the head's ****ed or the block was overheated beyond repair, I cant exactly show up at the sellers house with a box of parts! :D Also I dont want to have to get close the the 20 over mark. My feelings, which are shared by the shop, being that this block wasnt built for 400-500HP, we want to keep the walls as thick as possible. This means, hopefully finding a block that is in great shape and only needs a minor shavin...

I talked to Lisa yesterday, she is going to help me source a motor. Before we start building anything we are going have which ever block we buy, checked. Have all the spec.s measured out to make sure she is the best block for the build.

Headgasket - Copper bad? Why is that? What material are raceeng.com's gaskets made out of?

[s14slide]

from what I've read, copper haed gaskets tend to leak coolant. Outside of the engine and into the cylinders when the engine's not running, which if you haven't figured out yet would be bad for a street engine.

[240Dave]

Hrm, sounds like it's just poorly made. Unless that particular material expands and contracts a lot causing the leaking when the engine is cool...

[weirdstyles.net]

hmmm....looks like copper out of the question. How about Marshmellow? Would that work... he he he...

anywho. Looks like either the raceeng.com gasket or the stocker...

[andrave]

yea copper gaskets leak coolant, the only way to get them to stop is to seal them, and even then the sealant car burn out or can get in your coolant.
Anyway, they are a bad idea for cars with different heat expansion properties too (iron block and alloy head, for example).
I haven't heard back from the guy at raceeng about the composition of the cometic headgaskets.
ka24de.com also has high performance fel pro's.

[FRpilot]

maybe mr gasket or whoever makes those gaskets you see in the import mag ads for built engine parts. ka24de has everything. i love their site and their support for the ka engine.

anyways, i would love to see your monster ka. why dont you get even lower compression? say 8:1. i heard ppl going 7.5:1 also. and then slap on a t3/t4 hybrid and boost 25+ psi?

[kapower]

Your list does not cantian essentials of a performance rebuild. Balancing the rotating assembly, knife egding the crank, micro polishing the crank journals, If you switch to aftermarket pistons, & rods you should balance the rotating assembly, since the new components are lighter. lightened flywheel, light wieght under drive pullys, aftemarket clutch, nismo, or solid engine and tranny mounts, new vacume lines, new heater/radiater hoses, hose clamps, zip ties, all kinds of little items that will really nickel and dime you to death. Good luck though, keep us updated, this should turn out to be very interesting.

[kapower]

ARP makes a head bolt set for the KA24DE, www.240sx.org has a link to purchase them. I don't think the cam uses bearings, but it could be. The timing chain guide(s) should come with the timing chain kit. I don't think it is necassary to replace the stock/factory crank in your used engine, just use the origanal crank and have it turned and do the works to it.

[andrave]

if you buy pistons/rods that are well matched you aren't going to have to balance too much, though it is a good idea.
As far as lightening the crank, I wouldn't... I've seen a couple before/after tests and lightening the crank actually slows your car down off the line.

[andrave]

cometic's are multilayer steel headgasket, which could or could not be a good thing. The only guy I know who is running one just lost all his compression (hasn't figured out why yet) and a lot of people are telling him he should have gone with a stock HG because they hold up fine and if you have problems its the first thing to go (and its cheap and easy to replace compared with things like piston rings).
This is all over on nico so if you wanna check it out, look up their ka24det forum.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by kapower
Your list does not cantian essentials of a performance rebuild. Balancing the rotating assembly, knife egding the crank, micro polishing the crank journals, If you switch to aftermarket pistons, & rods you should balance the rotating assembly, since the new components are lighter. lightened flywheel, light wieght under drive pullys, aftemarket clutch, nismo, or solid engine and tranny mounts, new vacume lines, new heater/radiater hoses, hose clamps, zip ties, all kinds of little items that will really nickel and dime you to death. Good luck though, keep us updated, this should turn out to be very interesting.

note that what I listed was a PARTS list. All the labor is being handled, I will be the new webmaster for FonsePerformance.com for a while...

Already started laying out the design...its gangsta

[weirdstyles.net]

:repost:

If I drop as low as 7.5:1, if I turn the boost as far down as possible, do we have any clue as to

a) how loud the turbo would be (spooling)
b) what the drive would be like
c) what HP i should be hovering around

[andrave]

dude, what? I think thats too low.

[kandyflip445]

I've never heard of anyone doing 7.5 comp. 8.5 is fine. Especially since you said you're gonna be driving it around N/A for awhile. LOL. Knife-edging your crank is also not required. I wouldn't do it. Just a waste of money on a street car. Balancing would be a good thing for reliability but like someone said, with well matched components they should balance out well anyways. I would recommend you have them port your head(or you get a already prepped one;) ). Did you ever mention getting new motor mounts?

[kandyflip445]

Oh, and another thing for reliability. Have your block magnafluxed and all that other good stuff. Here is a site for cryoytreating (http://www.percryo.com/lead_page.htm) stuff. I don't think it would be good to treat bearings though....not really sure but they have multiple layers of metal for a reason.

[kandyflip445]

Oh, and since it's a one shot thing, replace all the stuff that could be detrimental if they mess up. FPR, Fuel pump, Injectors(which you will need when you turbocharge to 400hp), Water pump, etc. Cause you don't really want to mess it up from lack of detail in the things you think SHOULD have been right!:D

[FRpilot]

um.. theres an edit button.. ;)

[andrave]

LOL... post whore!:D
anyway keep us up to date on what you find, I'm planning on building up a DE "T" myself soon.

[weirdstyles.net]

candyf*cker i mean flipper, I will look into the head i promise.

I was actually talking to a buncah old heads today, and I am thinking of going as low as 7.5:1 with custom pistons. If I do that I WILL wait for the turbo setup before the engine hits the road.

I will kep an update, I will also look into those treatments.

About teh FPR and yada yada, beleive me its ALL good. That will ALL be on the detailed list of bullschitt..

[andrave]

Why would you want to go 7.5:1? dude, research this first.. that is crazy low compression, like... you could run 80 octane on 15psi crazy.
Your car is gonna make no power.

[weirdstyles.net]

Low compression/high boost. I was talking to my serivce manager and the crew at work about the project, my SM was at 7.25:1 on his Nova with X amount of boost from a SC. If he can drop to 7.25 I should be able to handle 7.5:1 or 8:1. This research is coming from three decades of street racing, from one man alone. Albeit we are talking domestic vs import the priciples stay parallel. Lower compression for a higher level of boost.

BUT, mi amigo, being that as a daily driverI may hover around the 8 or 8.25:1 c/r to retain the drivability. I am currently coonfused with:

If I have a 7.5:1 c/r and the boost turned to the lowest setting, will I notice any huge drivability concerns. I doubt this due to the simple rule of fuel+air=hp. As long as I keep a decent a/f ratio and enough in therel I should be able to retaing the drivability, right?

I just feel that 8.5:1 may still be a bit high. Remember, I would like this to go from daily driver to holy **** by the press of a few buttons.

(Labtop controlled ECM Mark told me about)


Lemme know your comments concerns and major malojustments. (sp?)

[weirdstyles.net]

update: Found a shweet carbon fiber driveshaft to keep things nice and weight free! 6LBS as oppsed to 20+ will keep me a little lighter, while reducing the rotational mass, thereby making my engine work less to turn more. Also, with 4/450HP I dont think the old one will agree with me... :D

Also, will be sticking with the stock cam. Old head explained it to me:

A camshaft (aftermarket) is used to increase the duration of lift, this is used to increase the ammount of air in and out of each cyl per rotation for combustion. When you have Forced induction, your cramming the **** in there, and shouldnt need an aftermarket cam, expecially for a daily driver.

[andrave]

so you are basing everything on the opinion of one guy even when books on the topic and a lot of other people's experience suggest otherwise?

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by andrave
so you are basing everything on the opinion of one guy even when books on the topic and a lot of other people's experience suggest otherwise?

I dont mean any offence to anyone, and I value you all of your input, expecially you andrave. But this guy has been in racing for decades and knows more about engines and automobiles than ANYONE I have ever met. I am looking for longevity for this motor, and the fear is if I run 8.5:1, this motor will last me like 6-12,000 miles.

[andrave]

I'm just saying do your homework, read about other ka24dets.. its a fairly pop. swap now and a lot of people are in to it, so there are a lot of experiences online.
I would also caution that while many things to transition from one style of car building to another, some things don't. Go to a bookstore and order corky bell's maximum boost. If your local books a million is like mine, it has 5 or 6 books on building engines and prepping them for boost.
It may help you make an informed decision.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by andrave
I'm just saying do your homework, read about other ka24dets.. its a fairly pop. swap now and a lot of people are in to it, so there are a lot of experiences online.
I would also caution that while many things to transition from one style of car building to another, some things don't. Go to a bookstore and order corky bell's maximum boost. If your local books a million is like mine, it has 5 or 6 books on building engines and prepping them for boost.
It may help you make an informed decision.

becuase I trust you and I am assured you would never steer me wrong, I will purchase that book this friday...bling

[driftstyre]

Why are you building a KA24? Buy an SR for 2K, put cams, 1.2mm headgasket, springs, 550 injectors, Z32 MAF, AFC and you still spend less than you would building a motor that will make less than 200 initial hp on a good day.
Also, full copper head gaskets are used on some of the most highly turbocharged motors in motorsports. The TAG/Mclaren Turbo 1.5 1300hp motor used copper gaskets and most WRCars use copper head gaskets for close to 2.5 bar of boost.

[weirdstyles.net]

Can someone tell me why this guy just jacked my thread like he knows somebody?

Why do morons like this assume I dont know the SR exist and that I am some niaeve a**hole?

If I am willing to put 3k in parts alone in to this motor, dont you THINK <~ key word ~> I may have some allegance to this motor?

Maybe this JDM TyTeness isnt my thing, maybe I wanna show that a "USDM" motor can hang with the big boys. Now get outta my thread.

[andrave]

if you are building a turbo engine you should get this book. trust me, its good car guy reading.

oh god I feel like I'm on "reading rainbow."

EDIT: ignore the dumbass. The logic is simple. When you are turboing for big power you have to replace the internals anyway, and with the KA you get an extra .4 liters. you get US support. A big bonus is the fact that if I blow my ka up I can go get another for 100 bucks, and if you blow your SR... **** you are gonna be searching for months and you will pay 500 for a block.
Also, KA is streetlegal.
I'd tell you where to shove your SR but I know you are talking out your ass and driving your grandma's old pinto.

EDIT #2:
Yes copper gaskets are for RACE ONLY ENGINES dumbass, thats what we said already.
Jesus its like talking to a brick. :bash:

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by andrave
if you are building a turbo engine you should get this book. trust me, its good car guy reading.

oh god I feel like I'm on "reading rainbow."


:rofl:

G'damn, I remeber that crap...

Anywho, I am going to do this research, I think I should keep in midh what you said about what transfers over from domestic to import and the changes and yada yada...

Does make sense and all...

[andrave]

oh things transfer, plenty does. But I just wouldn't base everything on this one guy. And a dohc engine is a lot different than pushrod V-8's in many ways.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by andrave
oh things transfer, plenty does. But I just wouldn't base everything on this one guy. And a dohc engine is a lot different than pushrod V-8's in many ways.

Well the reason I base this on him is pure experience, and the fact that he built and operated four of the local Mitsubishi dealerships. This guy knows so much it is ungoldy disgusting. Like he can tell you anything from anything. He as Mitchell schit memorized, he knows so damn much its scary. Like retarded **** too...

anywho. Yea, the whole old school v8 to import 4cyl is a jump. Basics stay the same, but I assume that the differences are enough to change the build process. I will pick up a few books, Ill let you know what I learn..

*bling*

[driftstyre]

I asked why you were building a KA motor.

THis is the f-ing response I get.

"Can someone tell me why this guy just jacked my thread like he knows somebody?
Why do morons like this assume I dont know the SR exist and that I am some niaeve a**hole?
If I am willing to put 3k in parts alone in to this motor, dont you THINK <~ key word ~> I may have some allegance to this motor?
Maybe this JDM TyTeness isnt my thing, maybe I wanna show that a "USDM" motor can hang with the big boys. Now get outta my thread."

You don't have a car or a motor yet. Get off your f-ing highhorse and answer my question like an adult. Reading f-ing rainbow.

The next response.
"ignore the dumbass. The logic is simple. Jesus its like talking to a brick."

I'm talking out of my ass and driving my grandma's pinto. Thats me.

[weirdstyles.net]

Dude, im not sure whats up with you and talking to masonry but I think you might just wanna take a few deep breathes, and hold the last one till I give a god damn.

edit: Oh my god damn are you a fu(king moron. I dont have a car yet? Read the sig ya damn boner! Cause you know, right, projects happen over night ya dick. Read ^ the thread, when am I suppose to be done with this project? When do projects ever really end?

Respond like an adult, yada yada yada god damn yada. What is with all this adulthood bull**** I keep reading about? Why is maturity stressed so much on a message board and in general life?! Does anyone here seriously want to grow up? (i.e., kids, mortgage, bills, divorces, taxes, politics, imprisoning jobs) Who really wants to be put through all that ****. So yes sir I am 15 years old, I like APC and Erebuni Corp. I sit at home and cut pictures of Supras and GTR34s out of Import Tuner all day and paste them, while eating the paste, to my school books. Next to the big heart drawing that lovingly dictate I (heart) 240SX... can someone else tell this moron to stfu.

[Your Boss]

And I'll be willing to bet it doesn't.

Here are my reasons.

You're setting off to do a very expensive project, clicking away on the internet while thinking that you're discovering "new things" that no one else has found. You're throwing them in your cerebral shopping cart and losing sight of the best way to go about things.

First- 7.5 compression? Are you kidding?! What the hell is this, the 70's? Dude, Saab's run almost 10:1 and they have production engines making 17psi STOCK. They last over 100k miles, easy. No one uses 7.5.

That actually has nothing to do with the budget, and I digress. Someone here with more experience than a 15 year old on his new project chimes in with a SR20 suggestion, which by the way is a great suggestion, and you shut it down cause you're offended.

Is the 2.4 block an open deck? Does it have oil squirters? I can't see why bother with it, especially when you're going to have to drop at least a grand on engine management to operate some hob-knob project engine that has no real engineering behind it. So, the choice is either 2K for the cleanest 2 liter with tranny and ecu, or 3K for an untested and completely experimental project that's going to take a year in labor costs to build (and when "money's tight" as you said) how's it going to get done. I don't see it happening. No one's hyjacking your thread. People are offering sensible advice. Carbon fiber driveshaft? Are you kidding me? Projects always run way over budget. I just finished one and I spent almost $300 on HOSES! Think I planned on that? Hell no.

Some stuff you didn't mention that you'll need:

Intercooler
Fuel Pump
IC hoses and Pipes
Braided oil lines
Engine management
Injectors
Limited slip diff
Puck clutch

That alone is over 3000, more like 4. So add that to your budget.

Bottom line, I think you can do this project but you're completely bored surfing the net in some idealistic dreamland hoping to have some magical NA motor that makes 700hp for 3K and lasts forever with "no money"

Seriously, (like I've been kidding) get the 2.0. Run the stock turbo and save money to build it up over time. Trust me. Many here haven't finished projects like this from running out of money.

Good luck. When you're done I'll buy you a case of beer. By then you'll be old enough.

-Your boss.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by Your Boss
And I'll be willing to bet it doesn't.

Here are my reasons.

You're setting off to do a very expensive project, clicking away on the internet while thinking that you're discovering "new things" that no one else has found. You're throwing them in your cerebral shopping cart and losing sight of the best way to go about things.

No, no shopping cart. And deffinitly no new things. What have a quoted as "new"?

First- 7.5 compression? Are you kidding?! What the hell is this, the 70's? Dude, Saab's run almost 10:1 and they have production engines making 17psi STOCK. They last over 100k miles, easy. No one uses 7.5.

As you should have read, boss, I am indecision on the compression issue, as I have no experience in building engines. This is my first TURBO charged project. I just ordered a few peices of literature on the subject, with the hopes I wont be so in the dark on the topics. And on the note of SAAB, I didnt know their compression or psi, which is very impressive. You seem to have intellegence, why hold someone elses back?

That actually has nothing to do with the budget, and I digress. Someone here with more experience than a 15 year old on his new project chimes in with a SR20 suggestion, which by the way is a great suggestion, and you shut it down cause you're offended.

Oh 15, right. Im sorry I forgot to add the quotes. Im totally off key. Regardless, I am not 15. I am twenty and have been learning about cars since 15. Proper and basic engine principals are all covered, yet I am still learning the internals and different theories and ideas.

Is the 2.4 block an open deck? Does it have oil squirters? I can't see why bother with it, especially when you're going to have to drop at least a grand on engine management to operate some hob-knob project engine that has no real engineering behind it. So, the choice is either 2K for the cleanest 2 liter with tranny and ecu, or 3K for an untested and completely experimental project that's going to take a year in labor costs to build (and when "money's tight" as you said) how's it going to get done. I don't see it happening. No one's hyjacking your thread. People are offering sensible advice. Carbon fiber driveshaft? Are you kidding me? Projects always run way over budget. I just finished one and I spent almost $300 on HOSES! Think I planned on that? Hell no.

Untested and experimental? DO you suppose engines just magically appear in Top Fuel dragsters? R&D is a key market in the world industries. Test and Tune is the only way to really learn the capabilities of anything, especially the engine. Yes I am aware of the SR motor and all of their capabilites. If I wanted the highest HP I would shoot for the SR, or hell the RB25/26. I am aware of everything you have mentioned thus far, its "nothing new".

Some stuff you didn't mention that you'll need:

Intercooler
Fuel Pump
IC hoses and Pipes
Braided oil lines
Engine management
Injectors
Limited slip diff
Puck clutch

you must have failed to realize the list, which started this thread, is based soley on the engine.

That alone is over 3000, more like 4. So add that to your budget.

Projects dont happen overnight champ and they take money. Have I shot for any seriously redicioulous or impossible goals? No, I havnt.

Bottom line, I think you can do this project but you're completely bored surfing the net in some idealistic dreamland hoping to have some magical NA motor that makes 700hp for 3K and lasts forever with "no money"

N/A motor? WTF are you talking about? 700Hp, you must not have read this throughly, which is going to end up biting you in the ass.

Seriously, (like I've been kidding) get the 2.0. Run the stock turbo and save money to build it up over time. Trust me. Many here haven't finished projects like this from running out of money.

Do you know that guy, the one who sits in his driveway tweaking at the Z28 or the good ole H-Body? Why would he do that? Its do this, do that and keep paying to race. Because its a step above a hobby. It's dedication and commitment to a goal and a huge learning experience. Your throwing all this at me like its "something new" and its all rather old. The Ka vs SR debate has been done, clich the lil red button and find out. I am well aware of the build of each motor and their potential and you are seriously wasting your time. Your pretty much like everyone elses boss, 'cept mine. You bitch and complain and ramble on and on till finally we all just block you out and nod and smile.

Good luck. When you're done I'll buy you a case of beer. By then you'll be old enough.
Thanks Dad?
-Your boss.

For your first post youve gotten off to a wonderful start. And from the way you defend your "homie" I am pretty sure either a) You are him, and he is you or B)Your HIS boss, and not mine. I fail to realize how you could conclude, without knowing him, that he has a reasonable knowledge about the SR. He told me to slap a few bolt on's and be uber cool.

This is all a personal project/mission. This doesnt concern the people who feel the SR has all the angles and will always be the best engine. Just let it go. This was a great thread, peaking 40 post, then you and the kid over there had to hop in like you own Nissan. Now kindly sit back and read other threads, doubt it; I am pretty sure his mission in life was to scoop up this thread only.

So back to the topic at hand. Andrave; I bought that book you told me about. Its on order right now! I cant start it till Im done with this god damn MySQL/PHP book and this CSS: Designing with out tables shiat. Oh the woahs of the freelance developers. I started workin on their site, threw together some nice ****. She reviewed it and was all ohhh ahhh about it. She, Lisa, will start getting the lower prices for all the parts tommarow morning. I am gonna swing buy the shop to help her out with it. I think I am getting Black240SX's old DOHC. Told em if I had her measured out and it was abused, Im sending it back with a flaming bag of dog shizzle.

[Your Boss]

Weird styles writes:

"You seem to have intellegence, why hold someone elses back?"

And then two posts before that he writes:

"edit: Oh my god damn are you a fu(king moron. I dont have a car yet? Read the sig ya damn boner! Cause you know, right, projects happen over night ya dick. Read ^ the thread, when am I suppose to be done with this project? When do projects ever really end?"

Okay, who's insulting who? I can't remember. Sorry if I thought you were 15. After reading that I had just cause.

Top fuel engines are the product of MILLIONS of dollars of development so don't venture there. My experience with SR20 is very limited as you suggest. I won't lie to you but my experience with projects and cars is pretty good. That's why I wrote what I did.

I still think that you should do what driftstyre suggested. There's merit in using an engine for which parts are available and that's been tuned to many levels of performance rather than starting from zero. Listen now.. or not and pay later.

Sincerely,
Your boss

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by Your Boss

"You seem to have intellegence, why hold someone elses back?"

And then two posts before that he writes:

"edit: Oh my god damn are you a fu(king moron. I dont have a car yet? Read the sig ya damn boner! Cause you know, right, projects happen over night ya dick. Read ^ the thread, when am I suppose to be done with this project? When do projects ever really end?"

Okay, who's insulting who? I can't remember. Sorry if I thought you were 15. After reading that I had just cause.

Okay, so I was a little hard on the kid, whats your point. Its a message board, not preschool. Maybe I was a tad out of line, but this guy walked on my table, kicked me in the face, then pissed in my Cheerios. Thats no way to say, "Hi guys".



Top fuel engines are the product of MILLIONS of dollars of development so don't venture there. My experience with SR20 is very limited as you suggest. I won't lie to you but my experience with projects and cars is pretty good. That's why I wrote what I did.


How many KA engines have you built thus far, as well as SR? I am not implying any skill on my behalf, but how can you demote an engine you have yet to worked on yourself?


I still think that you should do what driftstyre suggested. There's merit in using an engine for which parts are available and that's been tuned to many levels of performance rather than starting from zero. Listen now.. or not and pay later.


You make this sound like you are the all powerful boss, and this is going to happen. How do/could you know? With your lack in experience with the KA and the wonderful fact that NO ONE, even the boss, can not tell the future. Like I said, you seem to know your tech, but you should use if for good, and not the forces of evil. What would have been so much nicer would look like this, "I personally wouldnt have went with the KA, the SR is superior because....

BUT if you are going to build it, you should probably look into...."

*word*

Sincerely,
Your boss

Tiredly(?)
Not Your Employee :D

[Bill Roberts]

WS, it is so funny..

I suppose someone could post what a N/A KA24E *CAN* do just for good measure...but I won't give that info out easily..especially since I am not done with it.

Your KA24DE project to KA24DET project will pump serious iron. You just get to hit second a little earlier and let the torque blow the competition away. I guess that is what "folks" are scared of. Did someone mention of seriously threatening the SR market??

http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/other/1059606209/1059606209ss.htm

Mid 300HP N/A for this one. I called when it was available.

hummmmm

Lots of agendas I see these days....Investments to protect perhaps.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by Bill Roberts
WS, it is so funny..

I suppose someone could post what a N/A KA24E *CAN* do just for good measure...but I won't give that info out easily..especially since I am not done with it.

Your KA24DE project to KA24DET project will pump serious iron. You just get to hit second a little earlier and let the torque blow the competition away. I guess that is what "folks" are scared of. Did someone mention of seriously threatening the SR market??

http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/other/1059606209/1059606209ss.htm

Mid 300HP N/A for this one. I called when it was available.

hummmmm

Lots of agendas I see these days....Investments to protect perhaps.

see, no if Bill Roberts said it, you know its true.

How ya hold up there Bill? I was hopping you would join us for this one, I always value your input greatly. Not to say I dont value your andrave. ****, hope andrave isnt a woman, I know they would take that the wrong way....

:D

[kandyflip445]

Ok, PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T MAKE THIS A SR VS KA DEBATE!!!! Now, lets get back on track.


I really don't think that going to 7.5cr will give you any benifits to justify the higher price of custom pistons. 8.5cr with proper fuel upgrades and engine management has been proven to be a good setup for being daily driven and still be realiable. As long as the tuning is what it should be. Oh, and cams with a turbo aren't needed.....well....they aren't NEEDED, but they make a huge difference. You know that on a NA engine it makes power because it keeps open for a longer period of time so the cyl fills more completely. Well, think on how that works on a turbo engine. The cams let the turbo cram more air in the cyl. just like a NA engine but there is more air. So, basically if you want you could just omit that and keep it for later when you get beat by someone and feel like you need more without turning up the boost too high. The thing is, if you do that you will need to have your engine management tuned to compensate for the changes. Like you said you want to get it done right the first time. Also I don't know if you mentioned it but ignition upgrades would be a good idea too. Anything to make the spark more powerfull throughout the ENTIRE powerband. Especially the higher RPMs. Look for a coil with a low rise time. The more dwell a coil has the stronger the spark. On a 4cyl. engine getting over 3000-4000 cuts the power to the spark plugs by about 1/3 and it looses more and more the higher you go in RPMs.


Oh, and on a side note. BOTH of you have flaws in your arguements so please just stay on topic.

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by kandyflip445
Ok, PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T MAKE THIS A SR VS KA DEBATE!!!! Now, lets get back on track.


I really don't think that going to 7.5cr will give you any benifits to justify the higher price of custom pistons. 8.5cr with proper fuel upgrades and engine management has been proven to be a good setup for being daily driven and still be realiable. As long as the tuning is what it should be.

It seems like everyone is pretty persistant with 7.5 being a bad idea. I will hold off the decision, of course, until I have throughly read over the situation. But I think your making more and more sense, much like andrave.[/b]

Oh, and cams with a turbo aren't needed.....well....they aren't NEEDED, but they make a huge difference. You know that on a NA engine it makes power because it keeps open for a longer period of time so the cyl fills more completely. Well, think on how that works on a turbo engine. The cams let the turbo cram more air in the cyl. just like a NA engine but there is more air.

Also a good point, thats what I figured when he said that to me, it didnt really make sense. No matter how much boost you have, it seems that with a longer lift duration you should get more air in/out of the cyl.

So, basically if you want you could just omit that and keep it for later when you get beat by someone and feel like you need more without turning up the boost too high. The thing is, if you do that you will need to have your engine management tuned to compensate for the changes.

West showed me a labtop controlled ecm which I am very interested in. Expensive I am assuming, but right the first time has been my motto.

Like you said you want to get it done right the first time.

Wow...isnt that a coinsidence...

Also I don't know if you mentioned it but ignition upgrades would be a good idea too. Anything to make the spark more powerfull throughout the ENTIRE powerband. Especially the higher RPMs. Look for a coil with a low rise time. The more dwell a coil has the stronger the spark. On a 4cyl. engine getting over 3000-4000 cuts the power to the spark plugs by about 1/3 and it looses more and more the higher you go in RPMs.

Ignition upgrades are something I am rather lost on as well, and I hope when that stage is up I can turn to Zilvia and Google for some help. I understand the ignition cycle and process, how a more effecient spark better ignitites fuel and prevents knock; but when you get into rise times and dwel you got me lost in ways you couldnt imagine.


Oh, and on a side note. BOTH of you have flaws in your arguements so please just stay on topic.
Thank you daddy. :D j/k

[kandyflip445]

The point of a coil is to step up the voltage so it can overcome the resistance found at the sparkplug. It uses induction to do this. Basically the coil makes a magnetic field and when it collapses it passes through another coil causing a higher voltage to be induced into it. The more complete the magnetic field develops the more voltage it will have to overcome the resistance. The time the magnetic field has to develop is called dwell. How much it does develop is called it's rise. Electromotive (http://www.electromotive-inc.com/index.html) has a really good ignition system(in terms of multiple coils and such). I haven't used one though. There is a guy on FA that has one of their systems on his KA-T, I think. Jeff should know, he's the one that told be about that guy when I was talking to him about ignition. But that was a LONG time ago.

[andrave]

Yeah regardless of the other things going on in the forum:
You will start to need ignition upgrades once you start to go past a certain boost. Depending on your management strategy there are a couple different options, mainly an MSD box with timing control that retards timing when the engine is under boost.
Of course if you were going, say, standalone, you wouldn't have to worry about the management and stick with high powered coils, and such.
I'm building up a ka24de and I plan on using 9:1 pistons, actually, because I don't want the engine to be so sluggish off boost and I'm fairly certain that if I run higher octane I can turn the boost up plenty. I want to use total seal piston rings, and the rings and ring lands are one of the weakest points in a turbo'd stock bottom end KAde....

Anyway the fighting is silly, if you want an sr20 then this thread isn't about you, so stay off of it. If you are building turbo ka24de and have good questions/comments, chime in.
Obviously we all justify our own engine choices, and we must all do it differently since there are so many different engines under the hoods of 240s.

My one little piece that I want to throw in is that someone said you would spend 3k on a ka24de when you could build a sr20 to the same power for 2k, and then said "don't forget hoses, I spent 300 on hoses."
Ok, lets see, which would take more fabrication and extras, an engine already in the car or a motorset from another country? Also, if you could get a 300 or 400 HP sr20det for 2k everyone would do it. Fact is 2k will get you a beat on clip that will put down 160 hp to the rear wheels. 2k invested in a ka24de turbo will do closer to 250, at least it has done time and time again for turbo'd ka24de motors. If you want that much power, you are going to build the motors. Engine parts are approx the same from one engine to another. Block cost for the ka24 is cheaper.
Thats all I'm saying bout that.

[weirdstyles.net]

So I went to Barnes and Noble last night to pick up Maximum Boost, they didnt have it in stock, they called another local BN and they didnt have it. So I picked up High Performance Suspension by Dan Somethingerother and ordered the book. 29$ shipped to my door step.

Not bad.

[ryan hagen]

Push Rods
Rocker Arm Kit
Poly locks


these things are not found in a ka24de, all the kade has is (valve spring, valves, valve seals, retainers, keeper, shim bucket, shim, and cams) you dont want shims before the motor is built cause you wont know what thickness you need unless some one like pdm does your cams you give them your old thickness and they make you new ones. but if you get a vlave job do it before you get tehm cams so you only have to get shims once. also i wouldnt use the stock cams, if you do your power will drop off at around 5500 rpm, i suggest pdm stage2, its what i run. s14 cams will be milder and i dont think have the power loss that the s13 cam does but it also doesnt make as much low end as the s13 cams. i recomend 8.5:1 cause you will ahve osme monster lag with anyhting lower than 8. id almsot say even at 8:1 to have nitrous to spool it.


thanks for listing the parts though i needed to find a upgade oil pump and copuldnt find one.

[BeatJunky]

Ive been online for near damn 16 hrs already and Im not about to read these three pages...:wtc:

So is there a finished rebuild list yet?

Shoot, if there's three pages of debate here then there must be an ultimate rebuild list by now.

Someone let me know!:aw:

Im off to sleep!PEACE!:bowdown:

[weirdstyles.net]

Originally posted by BeatJunky
Ive been online for near damn 16 hrs already and Im not about to read these three pages...:wtc:

So is there a finished rebuild list yet?

Shoot, if there's three pages of debate here then there must be an ultimate rebuild list by now.

Someone let me know!:aw:

Im off to sleep!PEACE!:bowdown:

No, no build. The engine shop bent me over and shafted me Big Shirley style. Dont ask. I will be rebuilding a DOHC, but it will be to a milder spec. 8.5:1 with new pistons, rings, rods, bearing, head gasket, head job (not that kind) and cams. Might through a little extra in there, I dunno. But yea...

[BeatJunky]

Bummer :(

[LanceS13]

There is one pretty big thing you need to watch out for with running aftermarket cams on a turbo engine...overlap. N/A aftermarket cams usually have more overlap than stock cams. On an n/a engine with a good header/exhaust system that creates good exhaust scavenging, more overlap will allow the exiting exhaust gases to help suck fresh air into the intake valves before the piston even begins the intake stroke. However, on a turbo engine, the air doesn't need help getting into the chamber b/c of the high pressure. If the exhaust valves are still open like they would be with a good n/a cam with higher overlap, some of the air would escape directly to the exhaust system. A cam with more lift but not much more duration (and resulting overlap) would probably be a good turbo cam.