SR20DET not starting; Prepare to be Stumped!!!

[c130turboprop]

ok guys, i have searched and searched, asked and asked, and i am completely stumped on my car right now... so have registered here to ask you guys now for any help you may have to give. the car is a 89 240sx with a sr20det motor with AEM EMS tuned off of MAP, not MAF. the problem - i have no spark in any cylinder but i do have injector pulse/fuel preussure....

i bought the car back in september. ever since i bought it, it has acted kinda funky. like when you start it, it wouldnt start right the first try, it would run on like 2 or 3 cylinders then i would turn the car off and right back on and it would be fine. then thats when it happened, about 3 weeks after ibought the car, i was going down the road and it just shut off and it has not started since then, so its been around 3 months now and no start.

heres everything i have done. i first changed the CAS, then i changed the igniter chip, all the spark plugs, all four coil packs, checked and checked wiring/fuses/grounds, added 2 more ground wires to the motor/transmission. then after fighting with AEM to check my EMS, they finally did and they found nothing wrong with it. i am completely frustrated right now with it, lol... no one has an answer for me anywhere and i have changed all the parts in the system. i did buy a used igniter chip, u think maybe i got another bad one? is there any way to ohm it out? i have the top ripped off the one i bought and nothing is burned up inside and connected all the way across. i feel like an idiot because i go to work everyday and fix million dollar jet engines for the air force, but i cant figure out why my motor doesnt have spark, lol... so please, let me know what you guys got, think, know, or anything. let me know if you need more info. thanks a lot!!!!

~~James

p.s. i do have power to the coils....

[ballinnmiami240sx]

Do you have a good ground to the coils? Do you have a copy of the FSM?

[c130turboprop]

i checked that ground and it used to go just to the back of the head, and i made an extra piece that goes from that spot to the firewall... and no i dont have a fsm... its a redtop sr20 btw... u know where i can find one??? i've been looking for that too....

[nismoman]

Here you are sir. You should be able to track it down with this.

Nissan Factory Service Manual (FSM) (http://www.phase2motortrend.com/nifasemaf.html)

[c130turboprop]

aaahhhh, thank you, that will help out a lot... even though i probably looked at everything this thing tells me to, but i'll give it a look over... so, any experienced help though or ideas???

[Sileighty_85]

are you getting power to the ECU?

Check this plug out.
Worth a Shot
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/327189-attenion-pfc-users-w-eccs-problems.html

[c130turboprop]

ok, cool, thanks... i'll check it out... thats not the one the coil pack harness plugs into is it or is this a different plug? and ya, i do have power to the ems, i have power to everything....

[Sileighty_85]

ok, cool, thanks... i'll check it out... thats not the one the coil pack harness plugs into is it or is this a different plug? and ya, i do have power to the ems, i have power to everything....

Thats the ECCS power wire plug. but if ya got power.....

Doesnt EMS need that special CAS wheel? Or needed a different one than supplied?

Who did the harness?

I dont know much on the EMS system, So im tapped out on ideas

[c130turboprop]

you dont necessarily need the AEM CAS wheel... thats only if you problems at high rpms, which this car never did. the harness was made by hybrid dynamics in pittsburgh, pa...

[c130turboprop]

anymore help anyone???

[codyace]

As noted above, follow the FSM EC section and the electrical diagnosis/troubleshoot will lay it out pretty well for you. We recently had a car that stumped my normal process, but the FSM diagnostic section saved the day...ended up being a faulty pin in an s13 fuse box.

[c130turboprop]

i have been looking at the FSM, a lot, lol... i got it narrowed down to either my igniter chip or wiring going with the FSM... so i have a brand spankin new one on order and if thats not it, i guess its wiring... but i do have a question... will the motor only fire if number one fires first???

[codyace]

It's going to run regardless of which one fires first,all depends on what stroke the engine is on and on what cylinder.

Ignitors are known issues to go faulty on SR setups, I know for a fact that you can test the ignitor resistance across pins to see if it's good or not.

[c130turboprop]

yap yap, u can ohm it out, but i just bought a new just to have from advance auto, its gotta lifetime warrantee, i see that being used a lot, haha.... anyways, i was just wondering about the #1 cyl firing first, thought maybe a wiring connecter on just #1 went bad.... i just cant see it being a wiring problem since i have no spark in all four cylinders (unless is a ground problem), so its gotta be the igniter.... so i guess time will tell.... wish it wasnt so freakin cold outside here in northeast ohio so i could have ambition to go work on it, lol.....

[Couped_up'd]

Try a factory sr ecu. see if it starts.

[c130turboprop]

well, i dont know anyone around me with another sr motor.... secondly i cant do that cause i dont have a MAF sensor and stock O2 sensor, cause i use MAP, IAT, and a AEM wideband for O2.... but then again, maybe it would be enough to check for spark... but i'm not gonna spend money on a stock ecu.... by the way, would the ignition switch cause me to just have a no spark condition, thats something i havent replaces yet...

[c130turboprop]

alright everyone.... i have had my ecu checked by aem, they replaced the board for me, and i still have the same problem, along with putting a brand new 95 q45 ignitor chip from the parts store... what else could i be missing????

[nissansrdub]

did the bolts to your CAS happen to come loose and make the CAS move? happened to me. plus the CAS clip was broken and the plug wiggled off. something come unplugged?

[Slidin' Sam]

Did the CAS stab correctly when you installed it? The turn a little bit when you install them...check it out in the fsm. I would check you wiring to ECU/entire wiring harness. You say you have power to the coilpacks, just nothing coming out of them? Bad coilpacks (I know you replaced them, but did you replace them with faulty ones) Did all your spark plugs take a shit at the same time? Just trying to think of stupid stuff at this point...but right now my bet is on your CAS being off.

[KiLLeR2001]

Yeah, I'm betting the CAS is off. Try setting it back.

Here's how:

How To Set Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) Timing on the SR20DET Engine (http://www.frsport.com/How-To-Set-Crank-Angle-Sensor--CAS--Timing-on-the-SR20DET-Engine_t_25.html)

[c130turboprop]

yes it is timed correctly, i had the valve cover off and everything lined up where it should of at TDC on the crank... but even if the cas is off by however many teeth, i should still have spark shouldnt i??? it would just be at the wrong time, right?? and if i have it out and spin it by hand, the injectors fire, but i dont have any spark at any cylinder.... i know my CAS is working cause when i called AEM about it after i have gotten it back from them, since i get STAT SYNC when its cranking, that means the CAS is working properly. i get continuity through the ignitor to coil wiring, and i have three sets of spark plugs and the coil packs are brand new from nissan.... actually, the ignitor chip, CAS, all four coils, are brand new and the EMS is now checked by AEM and passed all of it testing, but they did go ahead and replace the board for the ignition side of things just to change it, and i still have the exact same problem... NO SPARK, lol... but thanks for the replys and trying to help out.... please keep trying, lol

[c130turboprop]

another thing AEM told me to do is to use an oscilloscope and test for signal after the ecu, then compare it after the igniter chip.... but, i dont have an oscilloscope and dont know anyone with one.... any other ideas on how to check this.... i have a multimeter but dont know what setting to use to check the trigger side of the coils and wiring

[holemilk00]

Are you hooked into the EMS while you are trying this? Do you have the software to do so? EMS is pretty intricate and there are several settings within AEM EMS that can cause your problem. I know I can turn the entire ignition system on and off on my KA-T with a click of the mouse and when my EMS was first installed it was off and had to be turned on before the car would start, along with several other options within the system. I only say this because it sounds like you've covered a lot of your bases on the physical side of it.

[c130turboprop]

ya, i have the software and whatnot.... i dont its anything like that cause i have been talkin with AEM and the havent said anything about anything like that. another reason i dont think its this type of problem is that when this originally happened, i was driving down the road with no computer hooked up to it and it just shut off on its own like i turned the key off.... no wierd noise or anything, just quit running... but i can double check the cal to make sure... also, i do get stat sync and with that, that means ignition should be on... which tabs is this on/off switch at just so i can make sure???

[holemilk00]

It is on your timing screen. But if it cut off while running, that's not it. I would say you have a wiring issue somewhere if it stopped while running.

[c130turboprop]

ya, thats what i'm thinking now... i think i'm gonna buy a brand new coil subharness since they arent to expensive and then run 4 new wires out to the subharness from the igniter chip... is there a pin out of the subharness connector in the fsm?? i cant find one for it... i just wanna know what the black wire is thats on that connector cause on mine it just comes out of the connector then loops back in... so anyone know what the pinout is for the whole coil subharness connector??? thanks again everyone

[OkiDori17]

sounds like a wiring issure to me too

but...i say build your own harness...when i did my swap my harness was crap and after hours and hours checking wires and testing everything i just made a new one...theres actually a few "how to" threads on it, just search around

[240sex420]

ok so after reading through this thread i was curious about what exactly happens when you do turn your key now. i had a problem a few months ago with my car wich is also a redtop sr20 where i was driving and the car just shut off. it turned out to be that my ecu wich was a completley stock ecu just burnt out at one of the pins. when i turned the key the car cranked but i wasnt getting any fuel because the fuel pump wouldnt turn on due to the burnout. after replacing the ecu it burnt out again because i neglected to check why the burnout occured after researching i was led to my mass air flow sensor wiring that was actually three sections of wire held together by quick disconnect tabs that was shorting out my ecu that was left that way by the person i bought the car from. point being its most likley a wiring problem and i know i saw someone say before that you should try running another ecu. i would try that before anything else because from what you said aem was giving you a hard time wich could mean they didnt do anything to the ecu so i would try another ecu to be sure if its the ecu or a wiring problem. you can find an ecu for cheap on ebay or craigslist but your best bet would be to find someone you know with a redtop ecu and just test it.

[c130turboprop]

i cant use another ecu cause i am MAP/IAT based tuned.... AEM did go ahead and change out the board that the coil drivers are on.... i have been talkin to them a lot now and i dont believe its the ecu nor do they.... but a wiring problem.... ya, i do think thats what is happening.... and right now when i turn the key, it cranks just fine, injectors pulse with fuel, but i do not have spark.... thats always been my problem since the start.....

[Slidin' Sam]

...wiring...

[nrg]

are you sure you set the CAS to TDC? there are two notchs on the CAS. one is for TDC and the other one is to set the TDC when you slide the CAS into gear. it moves the gear 1/8 of a turn to the TDC mark. hope that make sense.

If you set it at the wrong notch, it will not start up at all.

[c130turboprop]

yes, i am sure, i did it with the fsm and with the valve cover off.... yes i understand that it will probably not start at all, but even if the cas is off 180 degrees, i should still have spark, it just wouldnt be at the right time...

[STEVES14]

Any up dates with this issue? was it solved ?

[drewr4411]

I'm am going through the exact same problem and have the exact same ems. I'm guess the issues was the wiring harness