T25 KA24DET N60/370CC = no tune?

[StryfeS13]

Not doing this, but I just thought this was interesting. Would like to hear thoughts.

I was reading on KA-T.org, and Jordan Gladman posted this back in 2006. He said he was running a T25 at stock psi, with a N60 MAF and 370CC injectors. Apparently, the N60 MAF requires 30% more fuel than the stock MAF, and the 370's make up for that, and his car was running mint with no tuning.

Jordan Gladman: I had heard that running an N60 maf would require about %30 + more fuel than a stock maf, also the stock 370s run about 30 less, so the car runs mint with no management yet.

The stock SR injectors on a KA w/ a stock maf require a rough tune of about -29% across the board.

I've read about 3 times that the N60 maf requires a positive tune of almost exactly 30 on SR setups etc when installed in place of the stock maf, the 2 basically balance eachother out perfecftly.

The stock ECU uses an airflow number to determine amount of fuel to be added to motor, as boost increases, so does fuel and the mixture is maintained. The motor might be maintaining a slightly NA OEM kinda fuel mixture, just keep in mind, im running a 7psi intercooled kit w/ 94 octane pump gas.

Detonation was audible when running lower octane and noticeable innaudible w/ 94 octane. The tune might be a little lean but if it aint detonating and the car pulls hard, im happy. Its a stock high mileage KA, i could care less if it blows... i can have the SR guys hand me downs.

I dont think it will blow anytime soon thoughWhat do you guys think? Waste of money, considering that you're going to eventually want more power and upgrade to larger injectors, and a better maf? And even if you did get a tune for N60/370CC, you'd have to retune all over again if you got something like N62/550CC.

Here's a video of it running without a tune, t25, n60 maf, 370cc injectors.

KA24DET turbo - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://www.streetfire.net/video/ka24det-turbo_30286.htm)

And here's a link back to the 2006 prehistoric thread:

www.ka-t.org :: View topic - Cheap turbo kit... (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=t25&start=0)

[GroundPerformance]

I've tried this setup before while waiting for my tuned ecu. and it does work for temporary use only. I'd still do a tune to proper specs but If you need to drive around to get something then its not bad.

[StryfeS13]

It'd probably just be better to run an 8:1 FMU if you decided to go the cheap route, huh?

[GroundPerformance]

It'd probably just be better to run an 8:1 FMU if you decided to go the cheap route, huh?

You shouldn't really go in any route if you choose those cheap. Do it right the first time and it will be cheaper in the long run not trying to fix things you skimped on just save a few $$..

My advise.. Plan your build. Setup a target HP goal. Research the parts that will take you there reliably. Put a budget together and start looking for deals and you'll get it done. GL!!

[smelly240]

the problem with this - plain and simple.

The fuel might be right - but... the reason it is ok is because the maf is reading much less voltage therefore reading from a much lower load column - this is why the larger injectors are working out relatively well.

The ignition map is unfortunately doing the same thing. And at these lower loads the timing is increased from where the stock NA setup was... Now add boost... and it brings us to the high load side of the map where we were reading from @ 0psi on the stock NA setup. You're looking at 24-26 degrees of timing on the highest load column.

Now this is just entirely too much timing for a KA with anything more than a few pounds of boost.

The engine might be ok up over 5000rpm @ 5psi... but where the engine makes max torque (with a t25 like 4500rpm) - the car will have like 15 degrees of extra timing.

maybe you can take away distributor timing to make it not eat itself???

[jacobs13]

Can you do it with a z32 maf instead on an n60?

[vas570sx]

the problem with this - plain and simple.

The fuel might be right - but... the reason it is ok is because the maf is reading much less voltage therefore reading from a much lower load column - this is why the larger injectors are working out relatively well.

The ignition map is unfortunately doing the same thing. And at these lower loads the timing is increased from where the stock NA setup was... Now add boost... and it brings us to the high load side of the map where we were reading from @ 0psi on the stock NA setup. You're looking at 24-26 degrees of timing on the highest load column.

Now this is just entirely too much timing for a KA with anything more than a few pounds of boost.

The engine might be ok up over 5000rpm @ 5psi... but where the engine makes max torque (with a t25 like 4500rpm) - the car will have like 15 degrees of extra timing.

maybe you can take away distributor timing to make it not eat itself???

my thoughts exactly

[Tantwoforty]

I'm actually doing the same setup right now.
i know its the cheap route. but for now it fits in my budget and time frame.
I have a t25, n60 and 370's and a compleatley fresh KA i just built.
the ka has BC springs/retainers, acl main and rods and new everything.
i do however have a SAFC neo.
i would rather have a rom tuned ecu, but im not sure its worth buying a $450 ecu just for a t25 and 370's
so thats why im thinking safc untill a obtain a t3/t4 and like 550+

other than that im doing
walbro255
all custom welded
3 inch exuast turbo back
3 inch intercooler pipeing
4 inch turbo intake.
fendenza,
aem boost controller.
blah blah

so this is a super cheap turbo setup.

but like they said above my timing will still be off as ill only have fuel correction and thats still not really how you would want to tune and run the car.

the guy who sold me the turbo stuffs was running just the n60 and 370's and it ran pretty ok.
but its like a little bandaid.
safc being a big knee size bandaid.

so, its worth it if you dont cut corners and be safe about it.
wideband
something to watch knock with ect
but thats me.
sorry for the rambleing, im bored at work.
good luck with the choice :D
oh, and a pic for fun.http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs042.ash2/35456_483245949800_681149800_5440992_3309748_n.jpg

[s14canyoncity]

good reading .. didnt know you can run a n60/370cc with out any tuning.

i had this set up running for a week but with a tuned ecu good enough power for a DD, very fun to drive.

hate reading these thread, makes me wanna put together another kit.

[Tantwoforty]

you can, but its not necessarily safe to do so.
im not saying its going to blow right up, and if you take care of it and drive it right it should last a decent amount of time.
but considering most do it as a budget build, that means most dont buy a wide band, and that is 1000x more dangerous.
good thing im buying your ecu lol

[nismoman]

widebands are like $200 now for a basic one. Really no excuse anymore not to get one, especially for custom setups. I feel that should be the very first gauge you install. Innovate has a new MTX-L series that is super easy to install for $199

[Pandapants]

I remember that thread. There was a follow up post/thread about the guy he sold it to; he ended up blowing the motor. Still, an interesting theory.

[Carbomb]

my buddy has a kade
370cc inj
t25 sr
OEM maf
and nothing else
BANGS REV LIMITER like a nut! nasty burnouts, NO TUNE! over 2 years! hahah
he even has a safcII he just dont use it :P
i know like 4 people who have basic drift cars like this... works fine.
they run 93 oct and stock timing stock wastegate

[fckillerbee]

my buddy has a kade
370cc inj
t25 sr
OEM maf
and nothing else
BANGS REV LIMITER like a nut! nasty burnouts, NO TUNE! over 2 years! hahah
he even has a safcII he just dont use it :P
i know like 4 people who have basic drift cars like this... works fine.
they run 93 oct and stock timing stock wastegate


videos?

msglngth

[StryfeS13]

Yeah, I'm interested in videos as well.

[Tantwoforty]

i dont think it works with a stock maf.
the reason this kinda works is the n60 makes up for the injector diffrance.
but i havent tryed it.
and again, wideband. wideband. wideband.

[NissanEnthus]

2nd to that vids?

[SilviaSR20DET]

get it tuned... itll save you alot of headaches trust me.