Clutch Grinding Issue (S13)

[helladrifters]

Hey guys

Not too long ago I replaced the well worn clutch in my 240sx with a new OEM spec Excedy unit.
I had the Lightweight flywheel that was in the car resurfaced at the same time by a local machine shop.

I replaced the transmission fluid as well, something like a little less than 3 quarts.

So one thing I noticed when I pulled the old clutch was that the pressure plate from the previous unit (Spec Clutch setup) was taller when placed next to the Excedy unit that I bought.

Also, I just replaced the clutch slave cylinder and put a new SS clutch line in along with fresh fluid/bleed

Install was smooth enough but now I'm having this problem:

The transmission or clutch or something grinds pretty much everytime I put it into gear and inbetween upshifts. Also, sometimes during downshifts when I release the clutch it grinds right at the end of the release of the clutch.

I've adjusted the clutch both ways a couple times to see what is going on but I can't seem to figure out what is going on.

Any ideas what could be wrong?

[Duker]

possibly the throw out bearing

[helladrifters]

that would not be fun.

but wouldn't I notice that when the car is idling/driving in gear? My problem only occurs when I actually depress the clutch pedal. I hear you can tell if the throwout bearing is going bad when your foot is off the clutch

[Duker]

Well im suggesting it because i think your having the same prob im beginning to have..
sometimes in the a.m. as im releasing the clutch youll hear something not quite a grinding more like a hard spinning sound....

[JDMS1lv1a]

wow dude im having a similar problem that i just experienced today on my sr...new spec stage 2 setup,..i hear a grinding noise when i have the pedal pressed in,like the noise happens outta no where.and im almost positive it cant be the throw out bearing..very similar to how you described it,if not the same.. btw dont mean to thread jack

[helladrifters]

well its not just the noise, it like straight up will not going into gear because It is grinding, I have been stuck at green lights sometimes because i literally can't get it into gear (and I'm no stick shift noob or anything).

So also sometimes, I will be cruising in first gear or something coming to a stop. I put my foot on the clutch (still in gear) and it starts grinding bad (this happens quite a bit)

Although I can sometimes hear a grinding noise when I just push on the clutch and nothing else like you mentioned

I did not replace the throwout bearing when I did the clutch (stupid) but I feel like the problem would be a lot less serious than this. Its unbearable to drive atm

[Hstn Wytt]

Whats up, registered just to post this. lol. But anyways, me and my dad replaced the engine in my 90 240 with another ka24e and the first couple days it ran amazing, but than it started making this weird noise sometimes when i engaged the clutch and tried to switch gears, and sometimes when i pulled out of gear it would continue, same symtoms as you.
Had a transmission specialist look and drive it, and he said he had no clue what it was.

Anyways, we took the transmission out and we(my father lol) had forgot the pilot bearing. So today we slapped the pilot bearing in and it runs perfect once again, no griding, no weird noises.

Edit after I read your last post: Same exact symtoms. When I would go to put it in gear and it wouldnt go, I had to engage and disengage the clutch sometimes multiple times in order for the griding to stop.
I wanna say it was like a dollar and some change at autozone.

[helladrifters]

it got a fresh/new pilot bearing during the clutch install but thanks for the suggestion

[Hstn Wytt]

it got a fresh/new pilot bearing during the clutch install but thanks for the suggestion

Dang. Does the car still pull and have pretty much the same power?

[helladrifters]

Once its in gear, the car is fine, no noises etc unless you are going really slow

pulls normally (slow at 5000 feet :/ ) but yea feels normal otherwise

[helladrifters]

Hmm I'm hearing it could be the wrong transmission fluid? apparently there are 2 types (gl-4 and gl-5) and if you use the gl-5 one it can wear out the syncros.

Lets just say I had gl-5 in there for about 2 months roughly. could this do it?
(i don't know what went in)

[RyanS13]

Lets just say I had gl-5 in there for about 2 months roughly. could this do it?
(i don't know what went in)

Definitely could have messed up the synchros. After I replaced my motor we put some cheap ass gl-5 fluid the transmission. I took the car out for the first drive after we put the motor in and after about ~50 miles or so the 2nd gear would grind almost every time I put it in.

So I got online and read some stuff and picked up some of this
Redline 50304 MT-90 MT90 75W90 GL-4 - 1 quart (http://www.frsport.com/Redline-50304-MT-90-MT90-75W90-GL-4---1-quart_p_14787.html)

It's redline MT-90 GL4. After about a week of driving around with that in the transmission it stopped grinding completely. Stuff works really good. Give it a shot. It fixed my grinding issues.

[helladrifters]

I'll replace the tranny fluid this week/weekend and see how that goes

[helladrifters]

So I replaced the fluid with some Gl-4 synthetic transmission fluid. However the car is not any better, feels the same as it did before. :(


It's weird sometimes when I step on the clutch all the way it grinds even when the car is in neutral (?????)



Could this have anything to do with a Lightweight flywheel + stock clutch?

[SHIFTrl240]

Ah man, the TO bearing is so cheap, you should really always change it if you have the trans cracked open just to save yourself the hassle :)

It could be the springs in the pressure plate binding somehow.. I doubt it has to do with your flywheel if it was machined properly.

Is it just an annoyance, or is it causing some physical change in the way the clutch feels? If its just an annoying noise, and isn't getting worse, I would just try to ignore it.

[helladrifters]

Ah man, the TO bearing is so cheap, you should really always change it if you have the trans cracked open just to save yourself the hassle :)

It could be the springs in the pressure plate binding somehow.. I doubt it has to do with your flywheel if it was machined properly.

Is it just an annoyance, or is it causing some physical change in the way the clutch feels? If its just an annoying noise, and isn't getting worse, I would just try to ignore it.


I probably should have replaced the TO bearing but I don't feel like that would cause this serious of a problem.

At first it was merely an annoying but now its terrible, Its embarrassing to drive and sometimes I have to work/play with the clutch to actually get the car in gear. Its legitimately a problem :/

the flywheel was machined very well and the clutch has like 2k miles on it, probably less.

I don't know if its is the transmission itself or the clutch. I have never smelt burning clutch or anything. I really hope its no the transmission but I feel that maybe syncros are bad because of the fluid? I dunno thats the last thing I want to replace

[SHIFTrl240]

If you are idling, does the problem occur when you press the clutch in, or when you have the clutch pressed in, but put it into gear?

[helladrifters]

when the clutch is pushed in and when I try to put it in gear

[helladrifters]

Also, I was wrong about something. I did replace the throwout bushing but I did not put a new pilot bearing in

[Hstn Wytt]

Also, I was wrong about something. I did replace the throwout bushing but I did not put a new pilot bearing in

Damn. Dude I'm telllin ya. Do it on your next free day and reap the quiteness lol. It takes couple hours depending on how knowledgable you are in that area but its only a dollar and some change at autozone.

[helladrifters]

alright Ill work it in this weekend.

How do you get it out btw?

[Hstn Wytt]

alright Ill work it in this weekend.

How do you get it out btw?

I believe you just pull the trans, its on the end of the crank. Honestly, i dont know, my dad did it. I do hear autozone has a tool you can use. You will pay x amount for rent and you get it back when you return the tool.
Otherwise, a hammer, screwdriver and some elbow grease will do.

Ive heard the easiest way to do it is to pack it with grease and find a bar that fits snug into the hole and just hit with a hammer and it should pop out. Makes sense.

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2043/pilotbush.jpg

[SHIFTrl240]

If you are grinding only when you put it into gear, i really REALLY doubt that it is the pilot bushing.

If it is as bad as it sounds from your description, I would be looking into replacing your transmission, sounds like the gl-5 tore up your synchros.

Does every gear grind the exact same way, if you are idling with the clutch in?

[Hstn Wytt]

If you are grinding only when you put it into gear, i really REALLY doubt that it is the pilot bushing.

If it is as bad as it sounds from your description, I would be looking into replacing your transmission, sounds like the gl-5 tore up your synchros.

Does every gear grind the exact same way, if you are idling with the clutch in?

The sound is excruciating. I wouldnt even drive my car unless I absolutely had to be somewhere, such as work or school. On mine, it did it 80% of the time when i tried putting it into any gear. And it also did it when I just engaged the clutch. But my fix was as simple as the pilot bearing.

[helladrifters]

really? That sounds like the exact problem I am having. That would be super awesome if that is the answer to our problems.

I will give that a shot this weekend and see what happens.

But to answer your question, yes it grinds pretty much the exact same way every time including with the clutch depressed

[TheQ]

have you tried power shifting to see if it grinds in gear? if so you might have gotten a defected clutch and clutch spring popped out on you. Just a thought.

[helladrifters]

That I have tried, but no luck. I'm pulling the transmission today so I'll be able to look at everything

[helladrifters]

So here's what we have. I pulled the transmission and here is what I found.

The old pilot bearing is not sitting flush inside the end of the crank for some reason which is no good.
Also, the pilot bearing I bought today looks like it isn't the right part, its about half as thick in diameter and looks like it can fit inside the old pilot bearing, so thats cool :(. gotta go back to the store and pick one up i guess.

Also, one of the springs on the clutch is loose but all the rest are fine. Pressure plate looks good, same goes for the LW flywheel.

took some pictures here:

here is the clutch
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/240%20sx/pic11.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/240%20sx/pic15.jpg

pilot bearing poking out
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/240%20sx/pic14.jpg

the "new" pilot bearing
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/240%20sx/pic13.jpg

comparison
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/shankskank/240%20sx/pic16.jpg

[helladrifters]

I just realized a problem (possibly the problem)

The pilot bearing on there is for an A/T transmission. I completely forgot about that when I did the clutch

dammit

[Hstn Wytt]

I just realized a problem (possibly the problem)

The pilot bearing on there is for an A/T transmission. I completely forgot about that when I did the clutch

dammit

Nicely done lol.
Good luck.

Any update?