Z32 or Silvia?

[vshourt]

Well, I'm in the market for a new car. I currently own a non-turbo Z32, so naturally I want to move up to a turbo. On the other hand, I have recently developed a strong interest in Silvias, because of their lower weight and cost. The only downside I see to silvias is their less intimidating styling and nature. Z32 TTs always sort of give me a "running with the big boys" impression, since they are up their with Supras, 3000GTs, Camaros and such. It seems like Silvias are much more fun though. So all of this debating has led to:
A) Lots of indecision and
B) My friends yelling at me to shut up about Silvia's and Z's.
So anyway...I just wanted to ask the Zilvia.net public about their opinions on Z's and Silvia/240sx/180sxs. Which way is the best way to go? Also, how does the performance of SR20DET powered cars compare to those of VG30DE and VG30DETT powered cars? Like in the real world...not just a bunch of numbers.
-Van
PS-
God I hope someone has any idea what I'm talking about...lol. Sorry for the long post, but I am just so thirsty for knowledge in this area that it's driving me crazy. Thanks for reading this whole thing...

[DJ Machine]

300ZX's are just a whole other class of car, like apples and oranges.

There's the top japanese sports class, where youve got the supra's, 3000GT's, skylines, etc.

Then theres the 4 cylinder level below that, which is primarily 2.0 Turbo (MR2, eclipse, 240sx (with sr20, duh) and silvia.

[ca18guy]

I currently own a 300ZXtt and used to own a Euro 200SX (a S13 with a ca18det engine) here is my take on the two...

The Z is EXPENSIVE, if you are low on cash allready to buy the car you might want to hold off. My car is in awesome shape and it still costs me mucho money in random repairs, not to mention most aftermarket parts cost more for Z's and you will want to modify a TT. Whenever I say I'm done buying for it, I break down in a week :-/

The good thing about the TT is its fast right out of the box, and can be made really fast with just a few mods. The S13 was fast but no where in the same league as my Z now. The interiors are perfect to me in a Z (you own a N/A so you should know that too :) ) It blows away either a S13 or S14 IMHO. The chassis on my car has 100k miles and is 12 years old and I have pretty much no sqeeks or sounds coming from in interior, I couldn't say the same for my S13 which had fewer miles or even my friends 2001 Corvette which all made annoying sqeeks and rattling when going over rough roads. They obviosly built the Z tough, but because they built it so tough its not as tossable as an S13. I had more fun throwing my S13 into a corner but part the reason I don't do that in my Z is cause there is just too much power so either I'm going to fast or I'm not as confident in my rear wheels holding when I power out of a corner, so thats partly my inexperience with the Z so far. But that also shows how easy it is to pick up on the handling charahteristics(sp) of a 240SX. People that say the Z is a big car are right and wrong. It is big on paper but actually driving one it doesn't feel like that, the stiffer chassis and more power probably effect my view on that.

Despite that the S13 felt lighter but that has its downfalls, in the S13 I felt like if a semi hit me I was dead, in the Z I fell alot more confident and safer (not saying I'm gonna find out what happens if a semi hits me) The S13 I would rag on it cause I could it was cheap and cops didn't notice it as much, I can't do that to the Z. One it costs alot so I try to baby my car, and second its just too fast when you push it to its limits to play around on the streets, I like actually being able to drive to work with a license :) The looks of the cars is subjective you have to decide that, you really won't go wrong with either car, I loved them both, just my Z more :o

[davidX]

i'm having the same debate

[mrmephistopheles]

wow, what a thoughtful, informed and intelligent reply.

"Me too."


ugh.

[sykikchimp]

I've often thought about having a 300zxtt for a Daily Driver/pimp mobile, and my s13 as my track toy. I could care less if I slid my s13 into a wall.. I think I'd cry if I ran a TT into a wall.

[Red]

Having a "Big Boy" car would be fun as hell... Like the 300zxtt or a supra. But for the cost of the "Big Boy" cars IE: Insurance, Repairs, Mods, and Price of Car. To me thats a waste of cash.

Look at the 240sx. Cheep Mods, Low Insurance (kinda), Cheep Repairs.

I always use to drool on 300zxtt's. But now that I have done much research the 240 is a much better choice. The 300zx is cool and all. But in the end. Not worth the cash.

BTW you can always look into a skyline.

http://omegaskylines.com/

They have a 92 GTR-TT there.

[s14falcon]

As for the two engines, i've heard that the VG in the z32 is extremely cramped and can be a bitch to work on and service. Also, from a performance standpoint, i've heard that the VG isn't as good as the SR, but when you consider the car around the motor, it really comes down to what you can afford.

[S13Nismo]

It all depends on what you want.

Big sports car, which has its ups and downs, or Sport Compact, which also has its ups and downs.

Z32 TT Ups:
-Its pimp lookin'
-Its fast, stock
-ALOT of mods
-did I say pimp lookin'?

Z32 TT Downs:
-It weighs over 3000 pounds
-It won't handle as well as small cars
-UNDERSTEER!!!
-Unstable if tuned

vs.

Silvia Ups:
-Its light and has a reliable engine
-Its also sweet lookin'
-Its a head turner
-HANDLE BEAST

Silvia Downs:
-It may be unstable if tuned
-Its parts have to imported, so big $$$
-Not many mods for you $$$'s

So my reply,
Get a S13 Silvia w/Z32 TT engine

Simple??

[SilviaDriver]

i think people who have owned both or test drove both should answer this thread. for example CA18guy.

[vshourt]

Yeah, I was really hoping for posts from people who have experience with both. I don't know what people are thinking suggesting a skyline, though. A Z32 TT is a financial stretch for me :cry: . Though I can't really speak for the TT engine, I can say that my NA is pretty packed in there, but that's nothing compared to my friends TT Dodge Stealth (same as 3000gt VR4 for anyone who doesn't know that). That thing is hella cramped and expensive to work on. That's one of the reasons I want a S13...much simpler and much more open engine bay. If I bought a turbo Z, I wouldn't do much upgrading. Just intake, exhaust, boost controller, etc. The basics to get it up to about 400 hp. If I get a silvia though, I'm thinking SR20DET with upgraded turbo, bottom end, fuel system, exhaust...basically whatever I can throw at it to despirately shoot for 400hp (is that very feasible/reliable?). The funny thing is I've calculated that it would be cheaper to get a silvia with an SR20 to 400hp than a Z to 400hp (including the motor swap...correct me if I'm wrong...). This is assuming that the Z has less than 80,000 miles, of course. Buying a turbo Z in the 100,000 mile range has to be a maintenance nightmare...

[NZO]

One downside to wanting a silvia is that you dont live in japan :rolleyes:

[Jsquared]

yeah, it's not a Silvia here, just a 240SX with an engine swap, or with a front end conversion if you have that kinda dough :D

the 300ZXtt is easily more expensive and a LOT heavier. a LOT. my S13 weighs about 2700 lbs stock and a ttZ will weight about 3500.

and yes, you can get 400HP easy on a Ztt, but if you swap an SR you can get 400HP on stock internals, at the wheels. it's been done, there are like 5 guys at least on FreshAlloy putting down that much with T3/T4 hybrid turbos. a T28 with supporting mods will get you into some pretty freaking serious HP-to-weight territory. and never rule out KA-T if you get a 240SX with good compression on it's KA. You can run a T3/T4-ish turbo at low boost and get good power and torque, or build the bottom end for a beast. and think about it this way: it'll take more effort to get this kinda power out of the SR or KA-T than it would the VG, but it'll be in a car weighing 800 lbs less :eek: and swapping or turboing a 240SX will still probably cost less than a good-shape 300ZXtt. of course, the interiors of the Z are much nicer, and the Z is just so badass lookin :D

[vshourt]

Well, the z32s I was looking at are in the $15,000 range (ie PRISTINE with less than 80k miles). I figure I can get a functional 240sx (yes, all of you hardcore techies, I know it's not really a silvia :( ) for around $1000 to $2000 on ebay. I know that's kind of risky, but I figure I will be swapping out most of the expensive stuff anyway. I was thinking about alloting a $10,000 dollar budget to the 240 if I bought one. I figured that would buy me an upgraded turbo, fuel system, bottom end internals, etc. Also an S13 silvia front end conversion and light weight rims, externally (got to have some style ;) ). Maybe some racing seats/harnesses. I don't know much about the cost of the swap, however. Any figures?

[SimpleS14]

Get a 240SX....


S13 Coupe to be exact.

[rrobe99999]

I sold my NA Z32 and am thinking about getting an S14. I think the 240SX will be fun to drive, but cost less money than the Z32 did. I test drove one and they are peppy. A little bit slower then the Z32 but felt much lighter. With a turbo upgrade it will be faster than the NA Z32. One concern that I had was there wasn't much headroom, and I'm only 5'8". The problem I'm having is that I want a 97-98, which is rare, so the prices are jacked up to the same price of a Z32. So when I start thinking hard about dropping $10K on a 240SX, its hard to justify getting that instead of a Z32. I try to study depriciation curves and maintenance costs, and think the S14 will be a better value than another Z32.

[nrcooled]

This has always killed me...what's up with the 400hp figure? A reliable 400hp 240sx doesn't exist. A daily driver 400hp 240sx doesn't exist (unless you drive it like a pu$$y)
Why do I say this? Because changing lanes on the freeway with 400hp in a a$$ happy car, i.e. 240sx, could be quite interesting. And any 4 banger under that much stress will break regularly whether it's chassis or engine things will go wrong.
but I digress.

The 240sx is a great car and I have always wanted a z32TT but could never afford it so I desided to build my 240. Swapped with all the bolt-ons, she is fast enough to run with my friends:
'94 z28, '96 mustang GT, '95 VR-4 (all I can beat in corners and straights) N/A z32 is a joke compared to my 240.

I have driven a number of z32s now that my wife is insistant on getting one (trying to talk her into the STi). Finding a clean one for a reasonable price is the problem and she also finds herself disapointed in the performance compared to my car. I still love the styling and overall its a great GT car for dd duties but I am diehard s chassis fan.

[old_s13]

Stop running in circles, the answers are quite simple:

Z32 = Highway car
S13 = Canyon car

A turbo Z is an expensive car to own, it is also extremely difficult to work on -- the word "cramped" is an understatement! If you have a mechanic, EVERYTHING on the Z32-TT will cost $1000 to repair, from tires to fuel or water leaks. If you live in SoCal, there are specialists within the Z community who are more cost-effective AND reliable in terms of work, for instance: Greg Dupri. I have met the man and his work is good, plus he knows how to build Z32's if you ever need power enhancements, he's a great person to know.. very knowledgeable.

Think about it, the heaver 3.0L turbo adds plenty of power with the expense of weight. I have seen Z32's in Japan remove their VG's for SR's, single exhaust.. I didnt know why at first, then I realized they do it for the same reason Supra owners swap thier JZ motors for the 3S-GTE -- makes the car lighter, better balancing, better handling.

The S13 has always been an unstable chassis that at the same time, is bliss to drive. As quirky as it is, I love the amount of fun you can get out of our cars. With certain modifications, you can definately increase the responsiveness, stability, and performance of the chassis. You can definately dump more money into building a turbo motor (either SR or KA), just expect to pay a lot of money.. like any motor you upgrade. I wouldnt say the motor wont "last" or take the abuse, you would seriously have to talk to an engine builder to know for sure. However, it should be known that when you SQUEEZE power out of a small motor that is being stressed (turbo), I think its safe to say the motor wont last as long. But, thats not to say that its impossible.. there are a lot of turbo KA and SR owners putting down very respectable figures. When you look at how long some of these cars have been running, you have to be impressed.. its awesome.

Besides, lets not forget how much lighter the S13 is from the Z32.. that right there is an advantage -- all that weight hurts performance, so..

- Mike

[Red]

The only reason I said Skyline is you said Silvia. Meaning you are looking at importing one. (Why would you do that tho?)

If you are talking about a S13 240sx with an SR engine.. thats not a Silvia. that's a 240sx with a SR engine. Close... But still NOT a Silvia.

Anyways,

The 92 GTR-TT is AWD and does 0-60 in 4.7. Its also only 13k.

And if I diddent have a car payment and was not starting school next month. It would be in my driveway.

[vshourt]

If you can tell me where I can get a skyline GTR of any year for $13k, I'll have it in my driveway as soon as possible...but I don't think it's possible. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG! Just point me to where I can get it :)

[Anubis]

get a 240Z, best years for the Z and they don't have to pass smog!

[Red]

http://omegaskylines.com/

I already posted this once.

13k shipped.

[SimpleS14]

Originally posted by Red
http://omegaskylines.com/

That is one ugly website. :-/

[FriscoMgM2]

I have a Z32 TT and an s13 coupe.

Minor Z negatives:

-no backseat
-spare tire has to be INFLATED b/c it is tiny(i keep a 17 inch spare in the 240 no problem)
-z brakes aren't so great if the car weighs 3500 lbs

As old_s13 mentioned, do not buy a Z32 TT unless you know a seriously good Z mechanic and have a hookup on parts. All your 240 friends who have SR's will look at the engine bay and just cringe. Everything for the Z is expensive. Evenually...you'll have to replace the following:

Injectors $$$
Turbos $$$$$$$$
60K service package (timing belt, water pump, etc) $$
Super Hicas system is PITA $

For the price of replacing all of the above, you could have bought an s13 from a junkyard and swapped in an SR.

The Z32 TT is expensive to maintain and own. My insurance is triple what it is on the 240, and the Z is a serious PITA in the AZ heat...koyo is mandatory, along with water wetter and an upgraded thermostat. With A/C on, in 120 degree weather, stop and go on AZ freeways, ya....it puts a serious heat strain on the seriously cramped engine bay...

If you do everything right on the Z, $4000 later you could have a beast....JWT ECU, Sport 500's, HKS Carbon Ti, Dual pop chargers, Nismo injectors, etc etc....400+ to the wheels; tremendous power albeit at tremendous cost.

Positives for the Z32 TT:

Looks - no expl. needed
Grips like a mofo (IE will not drift, but powerslides easily)
Fatty wheels fit under those fenders
Interior is far superior to 240sx (esp. the seats lol)

Most importantly: Even the factory twins pull like a mofo. There are some high hp beastlike 240's running around AZ, and the Z32 TT still feels very impressive when boosting. Although I have yet to ride in Mike Lee's 504 rwhp s13. :-P

s13:

Easy to toss around, if you hit a mountain (like I did), who cares buy another shell swap everything over.

Parts are cheap, labor is cheap, everything is cheap relative to the Z32.

Stock 240's are not lookers in the opinion of some, but as we ALL know, 240's can be made to look stunning. (My silvia aero bumper w/jdm factory fogs is patiently awaiting installation)

SR/RB/CA/KAT powerplant swaps = all awesome

Lots and lots of other details to go around, but right now the Z32 TT has me in a bit over my head. I was very used to getting relatively cheap parts for the 240 and found out very quickly that this is just not the case in the Z. Plus...I baby the Z a lot more and thrashed the s13, obviously you would not want to even attempt drifting a Z unless you have seriously deep pockets. In addition, be prepared to shell out lots cash for parts (and labor if you are not a DIY kinda guy).

Okay, I'm tired...nuff said.

[nrcooled]

Originally posted by Red
http://omegaskylines.com/

I already posted this once.

13k shipped.

Shipped but not leagal! Add in 20k for legalization and you don't have such a bargin anymore:wtc:

[vshourt]

Yeah, shipped to Canada, but not street legal. Oh well, time to start networking some connections in the DMV ;)

[g81981]

I owned a 1990 300zx twin turbo (Stage 3) and 89 240sx (sold it and kept the Z) a few years back at the same time. The Z is expensive to keep up and there seems to be problems arising every now and then. Upgrades are expensive. It's heavy and the engine bay is cramped. Don't think about doing anything in there. It's quite powerful. I have always liked my 240sx because of it's nimble feeling, cheap parts, ease to work on and potential. Eventually I sold the Z and purchased a 91 240sx (missed it too much). Flash forward to the present--->Currently have the SR20DET with basics and never have been happier. I can say that even though it was not as torquey as the VG30DETT, it is way faster. The cost for speed on the SR20DET is below the cost of upgrading VG30DETT.