Requests are off the hook!

[Bill Roberts]

Ok...During a thread, a few people picked up on something I did this weekend and I got so many requests that my PM got filled up so I am going to show and post it here..


Now...what we are dealing with is somthing that is marketed but it did not really get a huge response...and I said to myself..this is a great idea...but it could be done better...so without further ado...here it is...


Engine shock absorber. Not a rubber bushing in a small shaft but a true gas shock hand picked for compliance, very strong and relatively short and stocky. A shock witb a 2600 LB capability but short.

I found it. took a lot of time to find it.'

I rigged up a mounting system (not beautiful but very functional) and I installed it.

WHOA MULE...what an improvement!

When I start the car, instead of the shifter shaking about 1/2 inch side to side (engine, tranny etc) I get this super smooth startup.

The car now feels like an SC 400 in smoothness during startup and idle.


Damn I say..

Next, I get on the road and the head to strut tower vibration is not vibrating but emmiting this Lamborghini type sound that is sex to the ears. So I start up in first, move to second and lay into it at around 30MPH and I see the front fenders rising and being pushed back in the seat like not before..

Instead of power twisting on the driveline, it is going to the rear suspention. The shifter is hardly flexing and if you hit a gear, totally absorbed big time...tires come on line.

You know how the older 300Z's would squat down? Now my 240 Squats like this ...front raises up and total stability. In wet weather, I used to fishtail with the open diff. Now, strait line pull, stability. Both tires are spinning...level and deep pull.

Am I over hyping this?

NOT!!!!


You must do this and see for yourself. Best mod for the money..

I am working on a pretty mount but at this time, it works so well..I may keep it ghetto for a while.

Ok..picture time..

BTW, you can get this shock through me and zilvia will make a healthy percentage. I will make 3 dollars on it..and zilvia can make almost 20 or you can try to source it. It is the only one I have found that does the magic..so if you want to help zilvia..I want West to provide the zilvia stickers and lets make this one of our first products offered...and it works big time.

You think $50 for the whole mounting kit and shock would be too much?? This is for the KA24SOHC engine only at this point.

At this price, Ziliva is makeing some change that is worthy.

It is an awesome value. I make about 3 or 4 bucks...and you pay shipping. Zilvia can make 4/5 times what I make. Lets help the site pay for the new server and all...and your car will love it. Mine does...very nice mod.

You don't love it? I will buy it back. you pay to ship (6 bucks?)

DOHC and SR to follow and I will make killer mounts once I have the cars to measure.

You can go buy a gas shock...this one is really thought out for compliance. Worth something eh?


I cannot imagine driving my car again without it.

It works great.

[240Degrees]

good job. thats very interesting. I've pictures of these before and didn't really know what it was for. I'm interested in buying one :)

[Bill Roberts]

The ones that are out there for 79 to 99 bucks are clean...but they are simply a rod with some rubber bumpers inside. This is a full scale gas shock rated to 2600LBS. Very absorbant..and the engine is not resting on a "stop" of rubber so it is allowed to use other suspention points as needed...like motor mounts, transmission mounts and the rear suspention mounts...this takes all the shock away...where the rubber one creates shock at the frame and does not distribute the torque down the line.

This works big time. I can guarantee if someone gets it...they will love it.

Mounts are something that has to be worked out. I have a system that is ghetto (pic) but bolts up to a KA, SOHC....for other engines, DOHC and S14, and the SR, RB and CA, I will need pics to design something, otherwise, I would sell the shock for 40 and you are on your own..and I suppose anyone with half a brain could build a mount..I did with OTC parts for 8 bucks.
My car loves it...so much more expensive feeling...and a blast to get on it. Not hype, just rear tire bite...like none before.

[240Dave]

I'm going to shoot you a PM in a couple weeks probably to buy just the shock. I'll make my own mount. Did you use this same type of shock for your tranny to frame connection? I'm still curious exactly how that all went together.

…Appreciate all your efforts Bill :aw:

[Bill Roberts]

No...the tranny shock is the direct replacement part for a Nissan King cab 4X4 using the Z24 engine. it was noticeable...but not like this...at all.

A search for this tiny tranny shock is of no use. no one talks about them, Nissan does no longer have them and it is a fluke of nature that that thing even exists at all. What is staggering, it directly bolts up beside the torque mount that comes standard with our 240's.

It is only 6 inches long and had a 3/4 inch throw...but very stiff.


This completly overshoaws the tranny mount to the point that if I were to take the tranny shock off, I may not feel its absence.
This engine shock is RADICAL in its effects IMO.

The higher up it can be mounted to the engine, the better. If you have your hood up and crank your engine, I get less than 1/8th inch deflection, used to get more than an inch. And this is with the tranny shock.


The shock is so powerful that you have to compress it to mount it. It has tension. A monster shock (for an F350 ford) is about the same, only it is too long to be practical..this was research for about 1 year. That is worth something I hope.


Their is a thermodynamic character at play here too. The mount I started with overheated the shock and caused it to be uneffective. The Ghetto mount is actually a heat sinc. Painted black it is a keeper. I used a series of spring compressors (7/32 thick) for my head to shock mount. The shock must be level. It matters dynamically and statically (physics rule)

I want to offer at a profit for ziliva to pay for the server..it is about value actually.

It works...and it works great.

If I get 50 orders, the shocks go for 34 bucks, not 40...but if anyone sends me a request to buy (this is the first actual offer) I will get them in.


Thanks for the kind words.

[fastpace]

man Bill this item sounds unbelievable. I am really interested in this and am more then willing to help zilvia out in the process also. I have one question will this shock interfer with ka turbo cars?

[240Degrees]

I looked at my engine bay and the power steering fluid reservoir blocks the way if I were to mount the shock like you did. I'm not sure about the layout of KA24Es but did you have to relocate anything? The only way I see to mount it on the drivers side is by attaching it diagonally.

[Bill Roberts]

I dont see why not. It is far foward...but I do see a problem with the driver side PS fluid container.


Dynamically, the shock must be level. The side of the shock tower is thick...very robust. The mount I chose works ...but on an SR or a DOHC KA, the mount might not be there properly at the engine

The key is to have the shock level.

I toyied with doing it on the intake side and I just could not bring myself to mount it on the intake manifold or the plentium but since the force is absorbed, you could do a right side mounting and have the same benefit...because I went with a mount that was not good enough on the head for test..and no problem. I even reved to 8K and banged it good to the smell of rosting rubber, and the mount did not bend at all the bolt did not break and the shock did deflect about 1/8 inch. Normally I would have seen a full inch plus...and the shifter used to move almost an inch...did not jolt..just flexed about 3/32" so this thing kicks a$$ so far.


The sound transmitted from the head to the shock tower has to be heard to be believed, very deep and growly...pretty sexy. It was a freebee feature that I did not count on sounding good..not vibration (that is absorbed) just a growl. 3800 in 3rd is an intimidating sound. A resonant feature that is harmony to the ears. Of course you are over the speed limit already in most places.

The car is finally connected IMHO.


It feels good.

If I took it off, I would definitly know the car is "spounge mounted"

[Bill Roberts]

240D, I would reposition the PS container for this mod..

[240Degrees]

so mounting it like this wouldn't be a very good idea?

[Bill Roberts]

IF you can keep it level, and clear the hood, no problem. It is large, look at the pic of mine, big shock...the tower mount must be low enough.


Also, the engine moves side to side, you want as direct a link as possable. I do nmot think this shock is long enough to reach that far. I need to measure the reach.

Cant you move the PS resv??


All you want to do is hook the engine as high as can be to the shock tower (solid) then it will work.

Look at hood clearance big time. No fun it hitting your hood where you cant close it. The mounts, give another inch and a shade more for the shock body.

That shock is close to 3 inches round.


You are limited on length.


Late here 215AM, day job at 6Am, see ya in the morning..

[240Dave]

How one of these? Assuming stuff can be relocated.

[uiuc240]

Bill,

Can we discuss the need for a shock at all? The way I see it, with a compressive strenght of 2600 lbs, you might as well just stick a solid rod in there. I mean, let's run some numbers.

Let's say your motor cranks out 200 lb-ft of torque (for the sake of round numbers). Let's just say the distance from the center of the crank to that mounting point is 2 feet (again for ease of numbers). That means the most force you will EVER see at that point is 400 pounds. You have WAY more strength than needed. Now, obviously, if your engine is taller or you have more torque, things are different.

If you factor in the weight of the motor as a swinging mass, that adds to the mass being accelerated, but I haven't had a physics class in a LONG time and it's too early to start talking about that. Perhaps you can fill me in.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade...just discuss. I'm thinking that perhaps the BEST thing for transferring force would be a simple solid rod. This could be adjustable like a strut tower bar, and made to look quite sexy. You said you have access to a machine shop...:drool:

Eric

p.s. I can't imagine why a motor would NEED to move around. I'm thinking it's all just to keep the wussy passengers from complaining about vibrations.

[Bill Roberts]

I actually tried a solid link. I did not like it at all. It is nasty on a speedshift. transfeered all the jolt to the frame affecting the driveability and even the cornering.

You need some flexability to keep the shock of the engine from breaking things like U-joints, gears, axel spindles.

What this does is keep the motion less than 1/4 inch each way. the engine has freedom to move on short ocillations...it is radical shock that makes this thing work best.

I think the 2600 LB rating is to fully stroke this thing in one second. It is rather easy to move shorter strokes..but sudden movements are heavily damnped.

Lets compare driving with no shocks just rubber mounts (wheel suspention) VS a solid suspention (horrible, the tires would be the suspension) VS rubber (motormounts) plus shocks.

Transfer if energy is smooth, solid...but not jolty.

I think I simply got lucky on the dynamics of this thing. It seems just right. Cheap to try, full reversable if you dont like it.

Anyone want to PM me, I can source the shock for you...but I would like for the site to make some money on it.

Think of it as a donation to zilvia.

[crioten]

if you can make one for the dohc, ill buy one :)

or if you can walk me through it, ill just buy the shock...

but it sounds amazing....cant wait, you should see if it does anything on the dyno, hey ya never know...

[JRTurbo909]

well i got a ca18 but i am down to just by the shock. email me w details. [email protected]

[mbmbmb23]

Yes, make one for the DOHC and I'm in also.


Quick idea......any way to attach the shock to a strut tower stabilizer bar?




-M

[Bill Roberts]

I am drawing up various mounts as we speak. I spoke with West about zilvia getting profit from this and he is thumbs up.

Included, I will front West some money to get some zilvia stickers and put them on the unit...so consider that my donation toward the site and the other profits as well.

Here is the rundown:

Shock by itself with sticker $40 Plus 6 dollar shipping 48 states. Canada, Alaska, HI., and other places will be slightly extra.


Shock total 46 Dollars.

Shock with mounting hardware. You will need to drill the holes in it..as your set-up may vary some. The shock holes will be drilled. All you have to do is drill the holes to mount the unit to your car in the bracket. The first ones will require some ingenuity as we will be debugging it...so bare with me on the mounts...the SOHC mount is a no brainer. The DOHC may require moving the PS fluid container. As long as the shock does not touch the hood and mount as high as possable, no problem. The Strut tower mount will all be the same...and it will be ready for using with a strut bar on top..using one strut bolt or the side of the tower using two bolts (again you will need to drill this hole or holes.

A disclaimer that this is an off road device and Zilvia or myself or the manufacturer (gaberal) bears no responsability for its misuse , damage to your car or otherwise. in otherwords, something freaky happens, you are on your own. Lockwashers will be included. yo must check them from time to time as you do your lug nuts. I torqued to 16 ft lbs.

You will need to agree. Mounting it to the exhaust manifold is not permitted. The transfer of heat could cause an overpressure and blow the shock. So far, I have run the crap out of my car, no problems..Shock does not get too hot to touch at all.

50 With Brackets 56 Shipped 48 states.

Zilvia will make some money on this and you will love the results. I tracked the car today and it felt really good...especially forced downshifts and slides. Just much more predictable. You are no longer fighting the viscous motor and tranny mounts. It is a good thing. The beauty of this shock is that it is bi-directional, works equally good for accelleration and downshifting (deaccelleration)

Email me at [email protected] for the details. First shippment goes out on the 22nd of Aug.

If someone can come up with a better mounting system after I post the first ones...have at it...we are in this thing together. More shocks sold, a better zilvia. Remember, if you are a cheapskate and simply want to source the shock and buy it yourself...it does not fit an american made car, they are not that easy to get, and it does cost more than 20 dollars in lots of 12 units here. You could just get a 9.99 shock but the spirit of helping zilivia and this is the only place that you will see this...others will copy it I am sure once word gets out...but remember, this is for the Site. I will make enough to cover mailing them off and my time to get them shipped in here, and packaging...It is only fair since I found the damn thing.

[Jsquared]

I really want one as well (S13 SR in '92 coupe). I don't have any welding ability/knowledge so I don't think I could make my own bracket... what kind of stuff is involved in making the bracket? (you can PM if you'd like). I'm definately down with helping out Zilvia.net and the innovator of this product :D

[Bill Roberts]

No welding required! Everything will be ready to just bolt it on with bolts..You will need to get a drill press or just drill out one end of the bracket to mount to your car. The ends of the bracket that the shock mounts to will be prepared and bolted on and ready.

With no brackets...just some spare parts laying around, I was able to mount mine...ghetto...but it works!

Who knows, I might just keep it ghetto since it works so good.

I took parts from a spring compressor kit (8 clasps and 16 bolts) and made it work. (cost 8 bucks plus tax) All I had to do was drill 2 holes on the side of the strut tower and bolt it up.

I want the mounts to be very professional looking and ready to go.


Once we find out exactly how to drill them for other cars other than a SOHC, then I will do all the dirty work and even have an instuction manual.

[Jsquared]

for the welding stuff, i meant making my own brackets :doh: i'd love to help out with getting one made for an SR, but my fabrication skills are limited, even with all the DIY/rigged stuff i've done on my car :D I'll try to get some close-up pics in the engine bay if i can borrow a digital camera.

[fleaf]

i'd def. get one if you can fabricate a mount for dohc =)

[Bill Roberts]

Good news! I just finished a lenghty conversation with the mount fabricator. I am sending him out a sample shock and he has acsess to all the different engines that are put in 240SX's !!!

What this means is the prices I quoted may be exactly the same...but if I am subcontracting the fabrication of the mount, we must iron out the price. Depending on exactly what is needed depends on if a CA engine needs a different style of "to the engine" system VS an RB. Yes, SR DOHC SOHC, we are on.

I priced the mounts at ten bucks. One mount is the same for all cars, the other is special. he may charge 5 for the standard shock to frame mount but different engines may be different prices.

Shock to engine mounts may incorporate indivigual pricing so lets hold our horses and see what it will actually be. I wanted to sub this out anyway because a specialist in the fabrication of the mount would make this so clean and easy. If we go with level 3 hardware, tungsten steel mounts with heat sincs..of course it would cost a lot more. Right now, lets get the system on some cars and let folks talk about how they love it and the mounts will come..and soon.

Those that want just the shock, email me now at [email protected] and I will tell you where to send the 40 dollars. I just called in an order for 24 units so this will happen. I believe in this project because it WORKS!

Those who want hardware, do the 50 and it will be delivered on time...even if I have to make it. Once we get production mounts going, I will be happy to trade out if needed.

Remember, my Ghetto mount works fabulous because the shock is level and dynamically working properly. This means it is not in a bind..it is absorbing d shifts and U shifts equally.

[mbmbmb23]

Sounds like it's coming along well. Good to hear. I wonder if there will be any fitment versions available for a topmounted KA+T setup....
Take a look at this pic (Unstable Hybrids pic)
http://www.unstable-hybrids.com/images/DennisKA24DET_B.jpg

Any ideas??



-m

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by mbmbmb23
Sounds like it's coming along well. Good to hear. I wonder if there will be any fitment versions available for a topmounted KA+T setup....
Any ideas??


Mount the shock on the other side??? Engine wants to twist CCW i think.

[Bill Roberts]

Right shock tower amd thermostat housing looks good.

[Fastback180]

Hmmmmmm...This sounds like a nice little mod for the money. I'll be e-mailed you in the next week for an order Bill.

Btw...I have the SOHC.

[mbmbmb23]

So this gas shock will have EQUAL (2,600lbs both ways) dampening when being compressed AND pulled on?





-m

[Bill Roberts]

I don't have an accelerometer..but the rating is 2600 Lbs maximum.

Now...this is how it feels..

When you get it...it fully extends out. It does not take 2600 lbs to compress it at all. I believe the rating is it can handle loads to 2600 LBS..so this said, you cannot move it over a distance of say an inch...really fast. It takes about 4 seconds to compress it ...say about 80 LBS of pressure.

Does this make sense?

[240Dave]

It seems like people are making this too complicated. It's a shock just like attached to your suspension. Works exactly the same way, the faster you compress it, the more resistance it has. I don't think rebound is ever as hard as compression. If you put it on the passanger side, it'd have to be compressed a lot when attached to give it room to move...I don't think it would work as well.

"According to the experts at Gabriel Ride Control, shocks provide resistance by forcing hydraulic fluid (oil) through valves in the piston as it moves up and down. Because the oil cannot be compressed, only a certain amount of fluid can be forced through these valves, which creates resistance to the vehicle movement. Premium shocks and struts are superior to regular hydraulic shocks because air in the shock is replaced by pressurized nitrogen gas. This advancement in technology prevents bubbles from forming in the hydraulic fluid. These bubbles, called foaming, reduces the ability of shocks to provide resistance and prevent bounce. Gas shocks also quicken the response of a shock's movement thereby increasing comfort and control under all conditions."

I'm up for the dohc complete kit when its ready.

[TheSparo]

MAKE one for the SR!!!!!!!!! please? lol
bill check u'r mail and clean u'r pm box:p

[Maeda]

I second the notion for a KA-T shock! I might just buy one myself and try to ghetto fab one for top mount kids...

[240racer]

Bill you are just making a fool of yourself to all the other engineers that are on this forum. Do you know what a shock does? First of all they do not absorb shock, they transmit it very well. It's just a dumb name that has become really common, but also leads to a lot of misconceptions of how they work. Now, when you talk about this 2600lb load rating, I am sure that it means the maximum load that can be placed on the shock or it may break. It has nothing to do with it's damping (yes this is the correct spelling)rate. Also, every shock made to acompany a spring (which is pretty much every one) has much stiffer rebound damping then compression damping. One person that posted was correct in saying that a dampers force changes with velocity, this is how they calm (or damp) vibrations. Now I just want to know how did you "hand pick" the shock for this application and what calculations did you do? Did you determine the natural frequency of the engine at idle and then use the spring rate of the rubber mounts to determine an appropriate critical damping coeffecient. Then how in the world did you find a shock with these specs without the proper tools? you admited you didn't have an accelerameter. However what you need is simply a shaft velocity meter (also called a shock position sensor attached to software that can determine velocity) and a load cell on the end of the shock.

This stupid idea blows me away and further convinces me that you have no idea what you are talking about and I can't trust any of your ideas in the future.

[apexL8]

If you don't have something to add besides.. "it's poop" shutup -sykikchimp

[Bill Roberts]

Wrong, it does absorb shock. How come my engine does not move 1 inch when I speedshift anymore?

What do you call that, I call it absorbing the shock.

Start-ups are much smoother.

So you tried the thing? No, you have not.

Proof is to put one on. Period.

That is what is happening.

Maybe you are po'ed because you don't want to try one or did not think of it?

???

It works, plain and simple.

You will hear from others when they put theirs on.

I knew someone would be skeptic. Did you put one on?

It will be hilarious when others get theirs and your post will still stink and others will report correctly. Your engine is connected to your rear suspention. It helps rear wheel control too. More stabilization. You will hear others comments..and you have no idea what that gas shock was designed to go on at all or its dynamic capabilities.

I am sorry, it is you guessing now. I have one on my car. I will not take it off. I could not stand to think of driving without it now. PS, my motor mounts are fresh. 3 months old.

Remember, zilvia gets a donation as well...you want to try to shoot that down as well?

[MarvynDT]

I am concerned about the long term effects that this may have on the car. Yes, it may prove wonders now, but what about a few years down the road? Will it eventually weaken my shock tower welds and rip it out?

Several years ago, people were estatic about using an Integra Type R rear sway bar on a 1992-1995 Civic. What many didn't know immediately is that they needed to use a specific mounting plate to the subframe as quite a few were tearing the subframe apart.

I think that your project is great. And I think that your hard work and effort should continue into recording every type of measurement available to ensure the longevity of your product design.

[mbmbmb23]

I think it's great that people are trying new things...fabricating new parts for the 240sx (I'm currently developing an LED lit rear center panel for the s13 Hatchback). Don't worry about not knowing the correct terminology....you can still create something nice without it...but if you happen to misspeak know that someone on this board will point it out....like it or not. I've gotten used to it. As for the skeptics on here....well.....I'm afraid that people (including myself) have grown very leary of "internet tuners" due to being ripped off with group buys, people flaking and not sending you what you paid for, garbage mods for sale on ebay, and overall simple mis-information and myths regarding the 240sx.

I do believe a product like this can work, similar products are sold for the SR (torque dampeners for the engine). As far as the shock towers getting messed up like those civics......I'm no engineer or anything, but if you are worried about messing up the unibody, use the engine dampener with a strut tower bar which will transfer the added stress to both shock towers, AND dont mount the shock to the strut tower using ONE bolt hole, use a plate that attaches to all 3.


-m

[Bill Roberts]

Here you go MarvynDT

I am concerned about the long term effects that this may have on the car. Yes, it may prove wonders now, but what about a few years down the road? Will it eventually weaken my shock tower welds and rip it out?

After careful consideration of your question posted +13 hrs ago. I decided to perform a test...and use common sense. I also presented the only knowns I have to the math lab and asked for 400% overdesign tolerance.

The mounting thickness of the shock tower where I mounted it is 3/32. I used 3/8 inch cap screws (grade 3) and nuts. I used 2 of them and drilled through. I torqued them at 15 ft pounds and incorporated lock washers. The shock tower is quite robust there. I used 3/32 plate tool steel for the mount. Took 60+ seconds (with a questionable bit and milwakee 1HP drill) to get through there. I lubed it with zepreserve to aid cooling of the bit.

The maximum torque or push /pull on the mount is absorbed by the shock itself. If it were a solid link, the dynamics would exsert about 2.43X the maximum crank torque of the crankshaft at the distance from the crank (to head mount) with SOLID motor mounts. Since this is to be used with factory motor mounts that 90% of zilvia members are actually using, they absorb shock at 50% load max (220LBS based on testing old ones in a hydrolic press not being shocked with speedshifts) so you must divide this absorbtion and all other absorbtion of the tranny mounts and the rear suspention by an unknow figure. We know it will not equal a direct link of 100% (which even a direct link cannot achieve 100% due to dynamic and static plus frictional loses)

Worst case situation with no mounts. (Shock doing all the work)

Lets consider 100% (probably more like 60 at worst)


Now ****with mounts**** and an X8 formula..


More hyper extrapolation not in favor of this shock..

This means that even if you had 1000 HP, the shock tower would never exceed 120LBS of direct torque and accumulated pressure from a speedshift (lets excersize 8X for kicks and grins) would be with a direct link, no motor mounts, and no tranny mounts, and no rear suspention, would be 920 LB's of pressure...and direct torque is never a constant. Adding in the varables it would be far less than 50% of this and if you take into consideration of what would happen during a speedshift, the total duration of maximum time under maximum stress would be less than 0.2 seconds.

Their are many varables I am not even figuring in here and going to the worst case senerio on each.


Think of U joint flexing and losses in the transmission mounts and suspetion)

This said, the shear rating (to shear it off directly) of the screw I am using on my head is 330LB/ enertia moment at 1/16th (using 3/32). I used this undersized screw to see how the stress would affect the "system".

Since I have taken a basic 220Ft Lb engine and done everything humanly possable to break something..I find that since the vehicle is resting (1/4 to much more during 0.9G cornering/braking more varables) on said shock tower and I am using two bolts for it, not to mention the one to the head is 1/23RD as strong (almost 24 times weaker in shering strength)...and no problem there...the last thing you would have problems with would be the shock tower mount.

I would be much more concerned with the mount to the engine. You will need thermodynamic insulation (no exhaust manifold bolts) and you will need to have the unit secure.

My Mount Man is working out all the mounts and I am certain that each will provide the level of stability needed to have no problems of any type. Everything that has gone into this is engineered to 400% of 300HP and if someone has that much power, the car certainly is not streetable and needs to be solid mounted for track use only.

Email for more explaination if this is not clear.


Bottom line, the shock towers are one of the strongest points of the entire car. Seat belt bolts and mounts are also quite robust....but not needed for this application.


Also remember, this system is sold as is. After 30 days, you can return it if not totally delighted. I also bear no responsability for improper mounting or useage. Use common sense. If you dont have that...then get it...I am sure you do actually.


The dynamics of an automobile is 40% art and 60% science. Then you consider the indivgual driver.


It is safe. But please don't get one if you have any doubts. You either see that it works and then know it once you try it on the track or street, or you wholesale bash it as being a dumb move.

Hey, you don't like it, dont use it and send it back within 30 days...what is the loss?

I ask everyone that does not believe 100% in what I am telling you how it feels on my car to NOT buy it at all.

I do not do dealings with those who really cannot see an advancement.

IF you don't think it will work, I won't let you have it..and they all have stamped numbers on them coming in...so try to pull a fast one.

IF it is not numbered from my lot, I am NOT responsable.

PS, I reserve the right to REFUSE SALE to those..I feel want to try to start some crap. I know who would like to try it and who don't. Each is screened and if you have not received an email from me, sign up...if you have signed up here and no email, you are not signed up.

That simple.

Know what you are getting into.


This is viable, works and will be loved. Simple. Try it. Guaranteed.

[Bill Roberts]

First lot sold out!


Those that want to do this, email me privately through the link. I will send you an email to fill out and send it back.

Those on the first order have received my email. You know what to do.

[240Stilo]

Originally posted by 240racer
This stupid idea blows me away and further convinces me that you have no idea what you are talking about and I can't trust any of your ideas in the future.

There's nothing wrong with him wanting to try something new. Sure it might be pretty safe to say he doesn't have the exact know how and tools needed to find the most effiecient shock, but the essence of his idea is not that bad. Much respect for Bill and his guts to test something new on his car, but I sure won't be putting this on my 240.

[sykikchimp]

...couple concerns

1. it's much too large. There are smaller gas powered shocks that could offer the same effect.

2. I would not trust a mount in the SIDE of a strut tower. A mount that used ALL three of the top strut bolts would not only be easier to install, but stronger, and less ikely to cause a problem later down the road. Strut towers are meant to handle vertical loads in reference to the suspension below, and compression/tension loads B/W the strut towers focused at the TOP of the strut tower. Bolting something to the side of the strut tower that sees a sompression tension load at a very specific point, is using that metal for something it was never meant to be used for.

3. All gas dampers work on Velocity. At idle, the shock would be doing nothing at all b/c the velocity of the motion is very slow. When you "speed shift" this of course causes the engine to torque very violently at a high rate of speed. The damper reacts, and resists this quick movement. To know what Kind of damper you really actually need for this, you would need the tools 240racer descrbed above. Obviously you have non of this test data.

4. Not to be a dick, but this "The dynamics of an automobile is 40% art and 60% science. " Is simply BS. The dynamics of a vehicle are 100% physics. Your design process may be "40% art and 60% science" but that isn't how the real engineers in the Automotive world create things.

There is more but I think that sort of illustrates my point..

This is a fairly sound theory, and I'm sure it works on your car. But you simply don't have the expertise/engineering know how, or the test data to try to market these the way you are. Seems to me you are taking a big risk. If a kid buys one, installs it, and it rips the side of his strut tower out, then he CAN sue you for the damages.

I would rather spend $100 on something with some good solid R&D with test data, than $40 on something that you think is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think your on to a good idea here.. just needs more development. check out this
http://www.isaacdirect.com/

I know its a safety device, but it is a device using a damper in a nonconventional way. It may give you some good information, and insight into what is expected.

[gbaker]

So this is where all the hits are coming from.

Yup, shock force varies with velocity.

[240Stilo]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
...couple concerns

Seems to me you are taking a big risk. If a kid buys one, installs it, and it rips the side of his strut tower out, then he CAN sue you for the damages.


Now there you go giving people ideas. Bill needs a lawsuit like a hole in his head. :hammer: I wish him the best of luck though. :bow:

[Bill Roberts]

Well, I know what I know...I had some dynamics testing done and it is safe.

IF you want it, email me, if not, you will not know how great it is.


If a moderator feels this is not a good idea to involve zilvia, then I will just do this direct and you can save the zilvia donation of 12 bucks each.

Here are some points to ponder and I am NOT going to give out my data..I worked for it, I earned it. I got lucky because I did not have to try 20 different units. This one fit the situation.

http://www.lordmpd.com/docs/ia_engineering.pdf

I try to be simple on zilvia and not too technical. I can bump heads with any and all of the ones pushing the slide rule if need be. This thing, in its place will never exceed 20% (even with 400HP) of any of the mounting locations load limits or "the art" which is the driver.

Remember, what is called BS may not be. 60% Science and 40% art. Art is the driver. A car is a piece of junk without one.

[Bill Roberts]

To all those that know this is not BS, thanks!

I drifted hard with it today and I was able to introduce some serious sideslips that the marks were right on top the other for the rear tires. Certainly the engine to rear tires is vastly improved.


Enter into a turn at 15MPh and hit second at full lock and shower down and instill 180 to snap out of a fishtail at 5K rpm was killer...ususally I had to slip the clutch. I did not touch the clutch and the rear end just rocked.

Those who do not think it will work for them probably need not apply...as you will find fault somewhere...but it is getting better by the day..

I took it off for reference purposes and the car just is no longer hooked up to the tires than with it. I love it, I am keeping it/

It works.

[s0ldats]

i love new innovations and ideas.. let us know when the second batch is ready.

[docrice]

After everyone gets theirs on, i'm gonna do a 1-up on everyone...adjustable shocks (sarchasm)...but seriously, we could sell ricers this kinda stuff if it had an APC logo on it, or even try to sell them airbags or hydros for their engines...you can sell anything if you paint it bright colors and put it at pep boys....just my $0.02

[drift_newbie]

I've been reading this thread with great interest, and I'm somewhat interested in the damper. But, I've got to say this to those that aren't interested:

IF YOU DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, OR DON'T WANT IT, FINE. BUT QUIT PUMMELING THIS THREAD WITH REPLIES OF WHY IT SHOULDN'T/DOESN'T WORK, OR WHY IT ISN'T A GOOD IDEA.

Bill seems like a pretty decent guy from what I've seen here on Zilvia, and I think that he's just trying to give others the opportunity to experience what he feels is a truly great improvement for our cars. So, if you're not interested, great, QUIT REPLYING.

*Steps down from soapbox*

-Ben

[Bill Roberts]

http://www.bestjapancar.com/TOYOTAS/rszBR4.JPG

[DJ Machine]

Seems everyone has failed to realize that they sell these over at Project Silvia (http://www.projectsilvia.com)...they cost like $110, but theyre more compact and sexy green, they also dont require any drilling..

[Bill Roberts]

Well, to answer your post...their is a huge difference from a nitrogen filled shockabsorber and a pipe that has a rubber bump stop in it.

When someone actually gets one on their car, they will see what it is all about..until that time..all this is words.

I would bend the bump stop damper on my car in a speed shift. It has a very limited movement. Mine can move if needed but it moves very slowly and absorbs shock...rather than damp motion.

Don't flame me..I am just setting the record strait here.

[DJ Machine]

i dont know about either one, i just noticed that no one had mentioned that rod at Project silvia