Sports car under $20,000

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

So I'm looking at getting a sports car and thought I'd ask what you guys would buy if you had 20,000 to spend.
Couple stipulations
No sedans, (I got one and it makes no sense to own 2 four door cars.)
No convertibles
Needs to be smog legal
Needs to be a reliable dd

Things I have been considering
Bmw e46 m3
Porsche 911 996
Acura NSX
Mazda Rx7 (ls1 swapped, yeah needs to be smog legal)

Your opinions?

[boobs13]

07-08 HR 350z

[xpertsnowcarver]

Damn, if you can find a NSX for $20k (without a ridiculous amount of miles or modified in some stupid way), please let me know.

The usual and cheapest I've seen is $30k. And that's only half way decent.

Honestly, your description sounds like an S2000, but with a hardtop. :p

[TravisSW]

Fork out another 5-6k and get a Genesis Coupe. :D
But since I'm now a Porsche/Euro guy. Get the 911/966.

What year btw?

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

The NSX I was looking at was a 1991 manual with 150k
Acura : NSX: eBay Motors (item 150467009549 end time Jul-19-10 20:27:10 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150467009549&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#v4-38)
I kinda wish I bought it. NSX under 20,000 is slim pickings let me tell you.

The suggestion about the s2000 is a great one, but I'm 6'3 and 235lbs. I have tried very hard fit and there is no possible way. No tilt wheel and no head room.

The 911 I am looking is a 2000 911 with 50k at 20,000 exactly

I don't really want a 350z because well my friend at one and am looking for something different.

Good suggestions so far. Keep them coming.

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

Oh yeah if I could just get to 25,000 I'd own the Elise below
[ 2005 Lotus Elise ] Gray/Black w/Complete 3rd party inspection (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/1889233071.html)
its freaking sweetness!

[xpertsnowcarver]

Oh my gosh!! Nooo! What a great deal!

Damn you're tall... Hmm.... I would have suggested a used lotus elise next. Lol!

I agree with Travis' recommendations.

Lotus Esprit? Eh... probably in the $25-30k range too depending on the year.. Not sure about reliability.

Edit: You beat me to my response. Talk to guy down... Worst he'll say is no.

[meteorite_flo]

Could you really find a E46 M3 under 20k?

[sw20>>s14]

2001 ZO6 hands down...although not the LS6, still a beast no doubt...

[ayuaddict]

You can easily find an E46 M3 for under $20,000, It's not hard to find one for under $15,000.

My vote is definitely for the NSX.

[simmode1]

RX8. The 06+ models are much more reliable than the 04/05's. For around $14k or so, you get a car lighter than a Z33, that performs on par with the S2000, but has a back seat. Plus, ppl are starting to do LSx swaps on these too...
http://motormavens.com/emAlbum/albums/Antonio%20Alvendia/Events/Wekfest-Weksos-Japantown-San-Francisco-2010/IMG_0141-Mazda-RX8-Japantown-San-Francisco-Wekfest-weksos-fatlace-hella-flush-copy.jpg
I mean, just look at how happy these asians look!

[Walperstyle]

I'd start with a crappier car, and put the money into the right places. I'd buy the porsche if the budget was $35000

[simmode1]

You can easily find an E46 M3 for under $20,000, It's not hard to find one for under $15,000.

:aw:Ooh ooh! Can I change my vote to this?! At about the same price, it stomps all over the RX8. I bet maintenance costs will be similar though...

[lucky7]

i'd get an M3. but keep in mind they are not the cheapest car to keep on the road. the same goes for a carrera. i like the NSX, but it's too damn old, IMO. i'd rather have an early viper for the same price.

[ayuaddict]

OH SNAP.

Totally forgot about Vipers.

Can you get a '96 GTS for $20,000 now??????

[TheWolf]

The Z06 beats all above. Easy to mod. Easy to fix. Fast and corners well.

The m3 is so capped from the factory and the HP is anemic. It's slow. once you drive a v8 bmw. you'll realize all that inline 6 jibba jabber was BS.

The NSX is just to old. Man that car is creeping up on being 20 years old. Alot of shit goes wrong with a 20 year old car that you don't realize. Every bit of rubber on that car is aged. Hoses. Door seals etc.

The porsche is a good idea if you are good at maintenance. If you can't diagnose it don't buy it. you'll die under repair bills.

The RX7 ls1 meh. To each their own. Some people like it. Some don't. I don't. To me the FD is beyond played out. If you've ever worked on a mazda it's like everything is engineered backwards. It annoys me.

You should really give up on this sports car BS and just get a bike and live with the 4 door.. I've got my 540i with a 6spd for hauling people and my k1200gt for myself.

[5pecialist]

Your opinions?
Excellent NEWER daily drivers with affordable maintenance (& maybe still have a warranty):


Nissan 350Z
Infiniti G35 coupe

Do eeeeet!

[aznpoopy]

RX8. The 06+ models are much more reliable than the 04/05's. For around $14k or so, you get a car lighter than a Z33, that performs on par with the S2000, but has a back seat. Plus, ppl are starting to do LSx swaps on these too...

i agree.

you can get a really mint rx8 with 14k. like 20k miles or less mint. they just do not hold their value well.

they are pretty damn reliable, contrary to popular opinion. and the engine warranty goes up to 8-year / 100k.

in other words, for 14k you'd have a almost 4 door FR car with another 3-4 years / 80,000 miles of warranty left on it.

really hard to beat if you're looking for something semi practical, used, sporty and not a project.

[GeneStarWindGSW]

you can always try gettin a mkiv supra.
2jz-gte has proved reliable and its got its pluses.
lots of aftermarket & cheap parts compared to your euro counterparts.

if your lookin for class higher then that, you can always try those nice audis or 1 series bmw.

maybe an evo?

[240sx123$]

SC300 2jzgte.

With 20k, you could potentially have 12k+ to spend on parts after buying a clean SC. Obeewon has one with like 55k on it for sale for 7,500.

But Im also partial to the e46.

What about an e39?

[jonnybonds84]

Porsche 944 Turbo or Turbo S.

This is a car that I've been looking to get. If you like to keep it a lil' old school you'll like this. Very responsive to mods and it's a Porsche (panty dropper.)

Cars for Sale: 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo S in Arlington Hts., IL 60005: Coupe Details - 282621515 - AutoTrader.com (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=282621515&dealer_id=65457271&car_year=1989&rdm=1281969067717&lastStartYear=1981&model=944&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=POR&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=1&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=92058&advanced=&end_year=2011&doors=&transmission=&max_price=999999999&cardist=1711&standard=false&rdpage=thumb)

[5pecialist]

Guys, he's in California. Crazy engine swaps are no go.

[ronmcdon]

You could probably get a higher mileage, around 80k, for C5 Z06 Corvette for 20k.
(25k would get a low 20-30k mileage model, which is the sweet spot imo).

It'd be reliable, save the interior falling apart.
Also don't think anything would have the overall stock performance of a Z06.
No need for LS swaps here.

I can't think of a better performance car value.
Probably be easier to get the bank to finance, vs. that of some 15+ yr old enthusiast car.

[shift_jin]

M3 ftw sir

[chris_240sx]

Could you really find a E46 M3 under 20k?

My friend recently picked up a nice one for 19,000. I've ridden in it several times and driven it twice, it's a really nice car. I like it alot. I wouldn't call it "slow", but then I drive a na ka s14 haha.

[240sx123$]

My friend recently picked up a nice one for 19,000. I've ridden in it several times and driven it twice, it's a really nice car. I like it alot. I wouldn't call it "slow", but then I drive a na ka s14 haha.

Its not slow, but definitely not "fast." I consider it "quick." Perfect for a DD. Id daily the shit out of an M3. An all around well rounded car. Perfect balance of luxury and performance.

[slideslidegnarslide]

^^^^^agreeed

[dtfdanyo]

I'd build a na-t or gte sc300 if I had 20k to spend.

[Rogue]

Damn, if you can find a NSX for $20k (without a ridiculous amount of miles or modified in some stupid way), please let me know.

The usual and cheapest I've seen is $30k. And that's only half way decent.

Honestly, your description sounds like an S2000, but with a hardtop. :p

I just searched for some today on autotrader. Some of them were very cheap.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

i'd say an e46 m3 or s2k. rx8 would probably be the worst decision ever if you aren't planning on doing some weird swap in it.

[VROOOM]

Terminator Cobra

[Rogue]

The e46 would be nice.. However at that price point/age a lot of things start to go wrong and or break.. ask me how I know... Also, unless you know how to do a valve adjustment on the car, inspections I and II can cost from 2k-4k.

[5pecialist]

unless you know how to do a valve adjustment
Not too difficult a task *however* the next buyer is going to pass on your car when he does a background check with the dealer (and it seems like ALL M3 buyers do this). Either way, you'd be out $4,000 (from paying the dealer to do the repair, or discounting your car at sale time because it has a hole in the service history).

[vvtisupra]

S2000 AP2

Probably the funnest car out of the bunch. I know you said no convertible. But FU

[atom]

Forget NSX. I'm your height and a lot skinnier and it's tight in there. As a track car it might be OK but you said you want to DD it some times. Forget the RX7 too, same problem. Shit, RX7 might be even worse than an NSX and S2000. It's been a while since I've sat in a FD, but I remember it being super cramped.

I'd pick M3. Or even a Z4 coupe. I was looking at E86 M coupes and you can find 2 year old ones for 28-30k all day. An older regular non-M coupe might be like 20-23k maybe?

[simmode1]

Or even a Z4 coupe.

Man, I hated the seat positioning in the Z4. It was way too low. But then again, I'm only 5'7. You tall guys might not have that problem.

[5pecialist]

240sx /thread

[raz0rbladez909]

07-08 HR 350z

If you want csc problems ;)
lol its funny cuz i'm actually debating this same question with my next car

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

Nice looking M3
2003 BMW 3 Series Coupe M3 2dr Cpe Coupe (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ctd/1899430183.html)

Nice looking 911
99 porsche 911 61k miles worth $22k blow out for (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1902297457.html)

Nice looking Z06
2002 Corvette Z06 (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1896715584.html)

Sadly my fav color for cars is white. Dam I want all three!
Good suggestions guys!
What car is worse on maintenance Porsche or BWM?

[TheWolf]

What car is worse on maintenance Porsche or BWM?

I've owned both so first hand experience here.

They're about the same. Porsche parts cost slightly more. Here's a quick rundown about some maintenance.

Build dates. Parts are queer and manytimes are peculiar to build dates. Like. A car was made between 97 and 2003. Sensor A works for all 3/98 and lower. Sensor B works for 4/98 to 5/00. Sensor C works from 5/00 to late. Now it's the same sensor but something like the plug, the thread pitch, or something queer will be different about it. Pay close attention before you order. Speaking of order. You will have to order every part for these cars. You've got a better chance of finding a caddilac at the bottom of a cracker jack box then finding a upper radiator hose in stock at the local napa. You'll also want to order everything because the dealers only objective is to rape you to death. Mountain of dicks style. I'll use my example of an upper radiator hose. From several BMW parts houses, bav auto etc. That hose prices at $17-$19. Not bad. At the dealer it's $64!! Same part, brand etc. AC compressors. I got one for my z28 camaro for $195 new. Not bad. I got a smoking deal on the one for my 540i at $355. Normally $449. Dealer price $1043 Seriously.

Both the porsche and the bmw have serious factory work manuals where they will show you everything step by step with illustrations about what needs to be done to do something like change a clutch. They make it so a monkey could do the job. They are extremely helpfull. Usually many forums will have bootleg copies floating around. Get them. They are an absolute must.

For instance a GM manual will say step 3 "Remove Transmission bellhousing bolts"
The bmw manual will show you an illustration of the bellhousing, showing the location of all bolts and say "Removed 10 T-10 Bellhousing bolts and 2 T-8 Bellhousing bolts located on diagram above"

So now you know what socket to carry under the car with you and how many there are so you don't miss one. Saves alot of aggervation. Speaking of aggervating bmw and porsche like to use torx. They feel it's better than hex sockets. Buy you some quality torx sockets. They also like special tools. Don't be surprised if like your transmission drain plug uses some kind of super queer socket. Like this. http://www.SamstagSales.com/images/hz2567-16.jpg

Germans love special tools. So when preparing to do a job on the car read the manual on it first. Locate any special tools, then do the job.

other things that you will find that are ridiculous. Brake pad wear sensors. Yes the brake pads have a sacrificial sensor in each wheel that eventually grinds through so your instrument cluster can tell you your brake pads are to thin. Handy yes. Instock. No. $30 a wheel. Yes. $80 each at the dealer Yes. So something like changing out pads and rotors can be a $2-3k event at the dealer.
Hrm What else. BMW Vanos. Your m3 will have two of these units. Surprise they start to rattle and die. BMW cheaped out and put crappy o-rings in them. You'll need to take the motor apart and install new seals in them. Besian Seals. The seals are $60 So it's not bad but it's the $400 special tool you need to do it. http://www.samstagsales.com/bmw/bmw90886116150.jpg

While your at it. Do a valve adjustment. You'll need it. Germans find no problem with taking the motor partially apart and making adjustments for wear to keep it in tip top shape. While intimidating to green mechanics, the manual tells you every step. Every torque etc.

Infact if your looking at either of these cars, budget the cost of a clutch, ac compressor, a radiator, all new hoses, two window regulators, and one ABS sensor. All of that will come due in maintenance in the next 30k. Price it out.

Another plus is there are tons of forums where people actually work on their cars and tons of FAQ's etc. It's not like zilvia where 70% of posts are "My sr swap won't start" "What turbo is good for 400hp" and the personal favorite "how can I fix my $300+ problem with duct tape, zipties, chewing gum and $40?"

So unless you have gobs of money, or don't mind turning your own wrenches, don't buy one of these. They will eat you alive. They are astonishingly well built cars and you could drive one into the ground. Everything is quite accessible and there is a procedure for everything. Germans love procedures. Ordnungspflicht is present in all their designs. Rough translation, Everything has it's place and there's a place for everything. It's a societal virtue.

Other things off the top of my head. Both cars take different amounts of oil. Like my 540i takes 9 quarts. I remember my 911 taking the same. 911s take a clutch about every 60-70k. They also had rear main seal leaking issues. Some porsches also had a intermediate shaft inside the motor that would spaz out and detonate the whole thing. Um.. oh yeah changing spark plugs on a 911 is fun. Don't plan anything else for the day when you start that. Small hands are better with 911's. Once you get to know either car and you maintain it, you'll enjoy the car. Get a feel for it. etc.

If you're financing one of these cars you're an idiot. Financing a used sports car is right up there mortgage backed securities in terms of good idea. I've seen friends do it. Don't do it. You end up with sky high payments and sky high repair bills. They won't run the 5 years the payments do. Not without some cost.

[5pecialist]

Don't forget to add that the M3 requires magical oil from the motherland, at $10 a quart.

[TheWolf]

Don't forget to add that the M3 requires magical oil from the motherland, at $10 a quart.

There are other oils that work.. but yes 10w-60 isn't going to be at your local store. The issue when those motors all spun rod bearings was defective bearing shells. Not thin oil as previously thought. mobil 1 says 0w-40 will work. 5w-40 will work as well. And yes no oil filters will be in stock either. Order those as well.

[DenkiMan!]

european cars are quite the complexity lol

[240sx123$]

TheWolf just killed my dream of owning an M3 anytime soon. :( :rofl:

[TheWolf]

european cars are quite the complexity lol

This is mostly porsche/bmw.. If you study germany you'll see regional differences between manufacturers and how it corresponds to their differences in the culture. bmw from the south. MB/porsche central. Audi in the chech west under VW from the north. Appreciation for an automobile is different than state side. If your car was dirty in germany. Someone may come by and write "I hope the owner will take better care of this car in the future" in the dust. Not to be an asshole but because they find a dirty automobile disrespectful. The farther north you get, the less "friendly" they are. Quite humorous. Nothing is complex about either car as I've said the manuals help sort out everything. Even how to rebuild the engine. If you look at all the stuff that people fix on their S13/S14 it's really not alot more complex. It's just a different way of approaching the problem. Sometimes they put to much effort into fixing things that don't exist. Neither has a cupholder worth a shit either.

[240sx123$]

This is mostly porsche/bmw.. If you study germany you'll see regional differences between manufacturers and how it corresponds to their differences in the culture. bmw from the south. MB/porsche central. Audi in the chech west under VW from the north. Appreciation for an automobile is different than state side. If your car was dirty in germany. Someone may come by and write "I hope the owner will take better care of this car in the future" in the dust. Not to be an asshole but because they find a dirty automobile disrespectful. The farther north you get, the less "friendly" they are. Quite humorous. Nothing is complex about either car as I've said the manuals help sort out everything. Even how to rebuild the engine. If you look at all the stuff that people fix on their S13/S14 it's really not alot more complex. It's just a different way of approaching the problem. Sometimes they put to much effort into fixing things that don't exist. Neither has a cupholder worth a shit either.

In Germany, your car wont pass inspection if it has any body damage! All of the cars on the road arent perfect, but overall.. it makes the US look like a trailer park. I was shocked to see how well kept their cars are, and their roads are.

[lucky7]

i will have an E30 M3, an E46 M3 and a 964 carrera 2 eventually. i can't think of any other cars i really want more. i think it's well worth the cost of ownership.

with 20k though, you could buy 20 E30's. :)

[TravisSW]

Little side note with the Porsche's.

When somebody says "what do you drive?" and you reply with "Porsche," people always get weird look on their face.

Even funnier for me because I'm 26, granted I'm driving a 1986 944T.

[mademedoit]

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass. If I were you I'd save a little money and get the regular vette, its about 150lbs heaver because it has a steel frame but I'd rather have the removable top.
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2741&stc=1&d=1247859665

The 20k porsche is cool because other than the headlights it looks just like the new 80k one. Not being able to see the engine though.... sucks, I would'nt recomend a porsche unless you have a lift in your garage! TheWolf is right about euro cars and thier special tools I bought a cheap Saab 9-5 for a daily driver and had to go to sears to get a reverse tork set (local auto parts stores/home depot/walmart only carry standard torx). The 9-5 has a 4 cam turbo v6 and to change the timming belt your suppost to buy two small plastic keyways to lock the cams. They come in a special $150 kit.! I got around buying this piece of plastic with cardboard and zipties wedged between the cams. Yes I am that ghetto. http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/99387_Graphic1_493.jpghttp://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImages/engine/BOM4145-L.gif

[T-FAST]

Forget NSX. I'm your height and a lot skinnier and it's tight in there. As a track car it might be OK but you said you want to DD it some times. Forget the RX7 too, same problem. Shit, RX7 might be even worse than an NSX and S2000. It's been a while since I've sat in a FD, but I remember it being super cramped.

I'd pick M3. Or even a Z4 coupe. I was looking at E86 M coupes and you can find 2 year old ones for 28-30k all day. An older regular non-M coupe might be like 20-23k maybe?

NSX isn't bad at all! I'm 6'4" and I fit into a first gen NSX perfectly! It's a little crammped regarding headroom but my head doesn't touch the roof and the legroom is great. S2000 doesn't work for me I sit way too high and the steering wheel is in my crotch. I have also been in a Rx7 and it was tight but not s2000 tight, I was pretty comfortable. Hope this helps!

[PhoPoweR]

Best bang for the buck car is an Evo even though its a 4 door

[simmode1]

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass. If I were you I'd save a little money and get the regular vette, its about 150lbs heaver because it has a steel frame but I'd rather have the removable top.

As great as the C5 was, I can't get past the looks. The C6 just looks sooooooo much better. Its the only Vette I'd want other than a C3...

[atom]

Agreed. C5's are just so blah compared to C6.

Same goes for Porsche. 996's are the worst. 964/993/997 are all so much better looking. Theres this one guy in my neighborhood that has a blue 993 Carrera S and it's totally the jam.

[240sx123$]

How about an Ariel Atom?

[ronmcdon]

As great as the C5 was, I can't get past the looks. The C6 just looks sooooooo much better. Its the only Vette I'd want other than a C3...

For me, it's the opposite.
Never could get past the looks of those C6 headlights.
Then, again I can't understand anyone getting a vette for looks

Also, good luck with getting a decent C6 under 20k.

Now if you have around 35k to blow (70k new?),
that would fetch you a great lower mileage C6 Zo6.

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

Thanks everyone for all the really helpful info.
To bad the m3 didn't come stock with the ls2...Then my decision would have been a whole lot easier.
I'm still on the fence...dam

[axiomatik]

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass.

It doesn't have "leaf springs", in the sense that a truck has leaf springs. It uses a transverse, composite leaf spring with double A-arms. It works just like the coil springs in the back of the 240, but is lighter and provides tighter packaging.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Leafs2.jpg

[boobs13]

If you want csc problems ;)
lol its funny cuz i'm actually debating this same question with my next car


Your still gonna miss your Z after you sell it man lol?

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

what about this guy?

Maserati : Coupe: eBay Motors (item 280549273208 end time Aug-22-10 11:34:51 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Cambiocorsa-Extra-clean-best-colors-/280549273208?pt=US_Cars_Trucks)

[mademedoit]

The corvettes have good stock suspension but the racing one's ditch the leaf springs and get coilovers like on most high performance cars.http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/319/4801/25797400024_large.jpg

[atom]

That's mostly for convenience sake, coil springs are universal while transverse leafs have to get custom made so it's more expensive to keep the leafs on a race car if you're chaging the rates often.

[h2v7]

dump the 20,000 into ur 240sx and ur really be in the sweet spot

[TheWolf]

what about this guy?

Maserati : Coupe: eBay Motors (item 280549273208 end time Aug-22-10 11:34:51 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Cambiocorsa-Extra-clean-best-colors-/280549273208?pt=US_Cars_Trucks)

my accountant is into ferrari's so thus I've learned about them. He fixes my taxes. I work on his car every now and again... that is a beautiful car and when new sold for a fortune. In the world of supercars on the cheap it is hard to beat that car. I try not to talk about them because if word got out people would jump on them. It's basically a front engined ferrari 360 except heavier. The engine was tuned up to 4.2L for the weight and I love it. By far it's an awesome car. If you've ever driven one it's amazing. The driving experience is AMAZING!! The interior is so nice.. the dash is amazing.. you could pull pussy all day with one.. just sitting in it, I start to sport wood.. I love it... a true 2 door 100% amazing car.. it's sexier than a triple throw down bad ass hooker...

If you don't have metric shit tons of money to spend on service or you wouldn't call yourself a "master mechanic" DON"T BUY IT!!!

As noted in the ebay advertisement "the clutch was tested recently with under 20% wear". This is important. Because the F1 ferrari gearbox is absolute unadulterated SHIT!!. Imagine the most hamfisted 13 year old trying to learn how to drive stick. That is what the F1 system does to clutches. It will engage and disengage the clutch no less than 45 times backing up out of a parking space. Inside the car it feels like an automatic. Outside listening to the revs and the clutch it sounds like your a moron who can't drive stick. No a moron would be a compliment. ITS SHIT. This car will go through a very expensive $1000 twin plate clutch every 15k miles. No really 15k miles if your lucky. That's because the F1 system relies on three things. The F1 Pump. and the clutch position sensor. Shitty italians programming stupid computers.

When you open your door, an electro hydraulic pump begins to pressurize fluid in your transmission. This is special fluid. F1 Fluid $40/liter at the dealer. Can only be changed at the dealer. It's made of unicorn tears and crushed dreams of affordable sports cars. Rumor has it, it's also saab PS fluid, the above may still apply after GM dropped them like a prom dress.

http://www.eurospares.co.uk/userImages/031/Medium/031_026.gif

That's what a F1 pump looks like for said Maserati. The electric motor spins the hydraulic system which actuates a lot of crap. Eventually the electric motor will quit spinning and like any italian hydraulic system they leak. I honestly don't believe you could buy a new one, drive it from california to florida without topping off some fluid or it just breaking down somewhere. It's that reliable. This hydraulic system uses computers to actuate a hydraulic throw out bearing on the clutch. If this fails, you will be unable to select a gear. Sometimes it will fail while you are in a gear, thus keeping you stuck in gear until you perform the cute ferrari dance using that center T handle and kick it into neutral.. so the tow truck driver can laugh at you. That stuck in gear part is awesome in traffic. Keep in mind. That pump goes out. You drive it till you stall it. No clutch pedal.

Clutch position sensor. It's this awesome device that was designed to operate in a sterile clean environment. So they shoved it into a bellhousing that eats clutches every 15k. Yeah no dust there. It tells the computer how thin the clutch is getting and how thin your wallet will be shortly. Occasionally it will get dusty. Then tell the computer "I don't know where the clutch went". Thus locking you into gear until you stall. This usually happens around less than 25% of clutch left. So what they mean when they say less than 20% wear. That means you've got 55-60% left because the last 20% is useless.

I don't know about you guys but sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck every 10-15k just doesn't get me horny for one. Needless I'll buy one and drive it only on sunny days when I'm not required to be in the office just incase it breaks down. Think of it like a bad ass hooker. Once you get a taste, you can't wait to go back.. as long as your wallet holds up.

[sw20>>s14]

my brother has two maseratis...a gt coupe and quattroporte...with first hand experience, i would have to agree with everything thewolf said; both good and bad...still the most underrated upper echelon manufacturer if you ask me...

[Walperstyle]

dump the 20,000 into ur 240sx and ur really be in the sweet spot

Yeah thats exactly what I'm doing. You put that kind of money into any S-Chassis, and you have a car that destroys everything mentioned in this thread.

Why pay more for a stock sports car when you can have a safe tuned 450hp s chassis. Thats what I'm doing. $800 rods, $700 pistons, $500 cams...etc

[5pecialist]

my accountant is into ferrari's so thus I've learned about them. He fixes my taxes. I work on his car every now and again... that is a beautiful car and when new sold for a fortune. In the world of supercars on the cheap it is hard to beat that car. I try not to talk about them because if word got out people would jump on them. It's basically a front engined ferrari 360 except heavier. The engine was tuned up to 4.2L for the weight and I love it. By far it's an awesome car. If you've ever driven one it's amazing. The driving experience is AMAZING!! The interior is so nice.. the dash is amazing.. you could pull pussy all day with one.. just sitting in it, I start to sport wood.. I love it... a true 2 door 100% amazing car.. it's sexier than a triple throw down bad ass hooker...

If you don't have metric shit tons of money to spend on service or you wouldn't call yourself a "master mechanic" DON"T BUY IT!!!

As noted in the ebay advertisement "the clutch was tested recently with under 20% wear". This is important. Because the F1 ferrari gearbox is absolute unadulterated SHIT!!. Imagine the most hamfisted 13 year old trying to learn how to drive stick. That is what the F1 system does to clutches. It will engage and disengage the clutch no less than 45 times backing up out of a parking space. Inside the car it feels like an automatic. Outside listening to the revs and the clutch it sounds like your a moron who can't drive stick. No a moron would be a compliment. ITS SHIT. This car will go through a very expensive $1000 twin plate clutch every 15k miles. No really 15k miles if your lucky. That's because the F1 system relies on three things. The F1 Pump. and the clutch position sensor. Shitty italians programming stupid computers.

When you open your door, an electro hydraulic pump begins to pressurize fluid in your transmission. This is special fluid. F1 Fluid $40/liter at the dealer. Can only be changed at the dealer. It's made of unicorn tears and crushed dreams of affordable sports cars. Rumor has it, it's also saab PS fluid, the above may still apply after GM dropped them like a prom dress.



That's what a F1 pump looks like for said Maserati. The electric motor spins the hydraulic system which actuates a lot of crap. Eventually the electric motor will quit spinning and like any italian hydraulic system they leak. I honestly don't believe you could buy a new one, drive it from california to florida without topping off some fluid or it just breaking down somewhere. It's that reliable. This hydraulic system uses computers to actuate a hydraulic throw out bearing on the clutch. If this fails, you will be unable to select a gear. Sometimes it will fail while you are in a gear, thus keeping you stuck in gear until you perform the cute ferrari dance using that center T handle and kick it into neutral.. so the tow truck driver can laugh at you. That stuck in gear part is awesome in traffic. Keep in mind. That pump goes out. You drive it till you stall it. No clutch pedal.

Clutch position sensor. It's this awesome device that was designed to operate in a sterile clean environment. So they shoved it into a bellhousing that eats clutches every 15k. Yeah no dust there. It tells the computer how thin the clutch is getting and how thin your wallet will be shortly. Occasionally it will get dusty. Then tell the computer "I don't know where the clutch went". Thus locking you into gear until you stall. This usually happens around less than 25% of clutch left. So what they mean when they say less than 20% wear. That means you've got 55-60% left because the last 20% is useless.

I don't know about you guys but sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck every 10-15k just doesn't get me horny for one. Needless I'll buy one and drive it only on sunny days when I'm not required to be in the office just incase it breaks down. Think of it like a bad ass hooker. Once you get a taste, you can't wait to go back.. as long as your wallet holds up.
What the heck are you talking about? Ferrari kicks ass & do not need anywhere near the repairs you make it sound like they need.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

why do I have to be the only one to say:
http://www.benlevy.com/auto/meet/illeuro20080314/dscf0125.jpg

[Walperstyle]

...or an Evo for that matter^

[mrflip69]

Couple stipulations
No sedans, (I got one and it makes no sense to own 2 four door cars.)
No convertibles
Needs to be smog legal
Needs to be a reliable dd


Reading FTL

[raz0rbladez909]

Your still gonna miss your Z after you sell it man lol?

Hah i will miss everything except the stupid continuous problem with the clutch and that stupid giant strut bar in the back, otherwise i loved that damn hr

[Silverbullet]

Damn, if you can find a NSX for $20k (without a ridiculous amount of miles or modified in some stupid way), please let me know.

The usual and cheapest I've seen is $30k. And that's only half way decent.

Honestly, your description sounds like an S2000, but with a hardtop. :p

20k NSX isn't common, but do come around. Condition will defently not be new, but NSX owners tend to not let their cars become shit boxes.

I had a friend who picked one up for 15k. Had its little quirks here and there, but was a good buy IMO.

[Bubbles]

If reliability was a concern I'd buy a used NSX or a S2k over the other options.


It's still a Honda.


Bmw, Porsche, Maserati are a whole different league.

[CrOW]

350z would be nice

[usafdarkhorse]

Good luck finding a truly decent NSX for under $20K. Expect to spend $5K once you have it. Just chalk up a little more cash and you can find a very nice one.

Superb vehicle though. And this "Honda" was the reason Ferrari developed the 355 and the 360 and was the benchmark for the McLaren F1.

[5pecialist]

And this "Honda" was the reason Ferrari developed the 355 and the 360 and was the benchmark for the McLaren F1.
Sorry but that's not true. The F355 was an evolution of the 348, not an attempt to recreate an NSX. The 360 was an evolution of the 355. About every 5 years they evolve their entry level street car.

[usafdarkhorse]

Sorry but that's not true. The F355 was an evolution of the 348, not an attempt to recreate an NSX. The 360 was an evolution of the 355. About every 5 years they evolve their entry level street car.

No, not an attempt to recreate an NSX ( in fact some assert the NSX was based off a 348, which is also untrue ), but Ferrari was genuinely anxious about the NSX on its release (Not like they should have been. People buy F cars regardless). Their entire quality control methods changed.

The 348 was one of the poorest made Ferraris.

[superbike81]

I vote the 996 911, and then start saving some money for maintaining it, and doing a 997 front end conversion, because the 996 front looks terrible. If you get one with good service records and that has been genuinely cared for, you can expect one of the most reliable true sports cars you can get. I know cars like the Z06 will be faster and probably more reliable, but it's just a car with RWD and a big ass engine, with the 911 you get the total package. Try to get an S model, as they have the 3.6L which is a little more responsive to bolt on mods. All you really need to do with it though is add a rear spoiler, as I think they look strange without one) and a decent exhaust to really show off the beautiful sound 911's make. Or you can add a turbo from TPC and get about 500hp for $10k. Then you will outrun, outhandle, AND OUTCLASS, all of those super awesome $20k 240's.

Don't waste your money building a $20k 240sx, because even though you'll have something that might outperform some of these cars, you are still stuck in 240sx. Speed and handling are great things, but they aren't everything.

[Mangudai]

RX8. The 06+ models are much more reliable than the 04/05's. For around $14k or so, you get a car lighter than a Z33, that performs on par with the S2000, but has a back seat. Plus, ppl are starting to do LSx swaps on these too...
http://motormavens.com/emAlbum/albums/Antonio%20Alvendia/Events/Wekfest-Weksos-Japantown-San-Francisco-2010/IMG_0141-Mazda-RX8-Japantown-San-Francisco-Wekfest-weksos-fatlace-hella-flush-copy.jpg
I mean, just look at how happy these asians look!


Are they reliable?



What the heck are you talking about? Ferrari kicks ass & do not need anywhere near the repairs you make it sound like they need.

He's referring to Maserati.

[BustedS13]

Porsche 944 Turbo or Turbo S.

This is a car that I've been looking to get. If you like to keep it a lil' old school you'll like this. Very responsive to mods and it's a Porsche (panty dropper.)



yeah, nothing gets 'em wet like a 30 year old non-911 Porsche hoopty.