KA24DE ignition timing

[Dream240]

Okay I'm going to act like a noob right now because my brain isn't working.

For ignition timing adjustment, which way do you turn the dizzy to advance the timing?

I'm pretty sure it's

clockwise = retard timing.
counter-clockwise = advance timing.

Also, if I'm running at 29 BTDC, will my car produce more power? It's a stock NA motor, with only an exhaust and some drivetrain upgrades.

You can noob flame me if you're feeling frisky today, i dont mind.

[orion::S14]

You have it backwards - Clockwise to advance.

The rotor spins counter-clockwise, so if you turn the cap clockwise, it will fire each cylinder earlier.

And 29BTDC is too much advance. Did you check that with the engine warm, TPS unplugged, and idle at ~700rpm? If so, knock it back to ~22-23. A couple degrees advance is a good thing. 9 degrees...too much.

- Brian

[racepar1]

Just watch the timing with the timing light as you turn the distributor. You ought to be able to figure out which way to turn it...

As for the timing factory spec is 21* btdc.

To set it you don't need to un-plug the TPS or anything, the engine just needs to be fully warm.

[Dream240]

Okay thanks.

Actually I failed smog due to faulty EGR, and the print showed my timing at 29 BTDC. I'm not surprised since I have an Aluminum pulley and I set the timing back in the day by just trying to mark the dizzy mounting bolt.....

I have a timing light but with no timing marks on the crank pulley, I'm left to guessing. And I really don't want to swap the old pulley back on to adjust it exact. Maybe i'll just buy a digital timing light.....

Thanks man.

[Dream240]

Okay, now I'm curious.

Which type of timing do I need to buy to be able to set the timing without using the timing marks on the pulley?

I've found the following:

Equus 3551 - Inductive Timing Light | O'Reilly Auto Parts (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EQU0/3551.oap?keyword=timing+light&pt=N0665&ppt=C0103)

Equus 3555 - Advance Timing Light | O'Reilly Auto Parts (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EQU0/3555.oap?keyword=timing+light&pt=N0665&ppt=C0103)

Equus 3568 - Digital Timing Light | O'Reilly Auto Parts (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EQU0/3568.oap?keyword=timing+light&pt=N0665&ppt=C0103)

I'm thinking the digital one is what I need. But since I've owned anything more than the low end model, i'm wondering what's the difference. Is a digital one overkill?

Thanks for any input guys.

[racepar1]

You can't set the timing without a mark on the pulley unless you have a scan tool. I can read the ignition timing data with my scan tool and set the timing like that. My question is, how did the smog shop check the timing without any marks? I would advise you to re-install the factory pulley and sell that piece of crap aftermarket one. You're not gaining anything with that pulley...

[orion::S14]

As for the timing factory spec is 21* btdc.

To set it you don't need to un-plug the TPS or anything, the engine just needs to be fully warm.

What?

Check an FSM - It clearly states that to set the base timing, you need to have the ECU in "timing mode"...otherwise, the ECU will still play with the timing advance.

And the base timing for a KA24DE is 20*BTDC...+/- 2*. (EDIT: Splitting hairs on that point, I know...but still...)

FSM - EC-27, EC-28

- Brian

[racepar1]

What?

Check an FSM - It clearly states that to set the base timing, you need to have the ECU in "timing mode"...otherwise, the ECU will still play with the timing advance.

And the base timing for a KA24DE is 20*BTDC...+/- 2*. (EDIT: Splitting hairs on that point, I know...but still...)

FSM - EC-27, EC-28

- Brian

The ecu doesn't play with the advance at idle once the engine is warm. I know what the FSM says. I also know that as a mechanic in the field most times the FSM isn't worth it's weight in doggy poo... Besides mitchell doesn't say anything about un-plugging the TPS. The only time it mentions that is to set the idle.

[orion::S14]

Fair enough...

But I'll add, that as a long time enthusiast in the field...I've seen a KA show ~15 degrees (and bouncing around between 15 and 20) on a timing light, and go to ~20 (steady) as soon as the TPS was unplugged.

That's my dos centavos...YMMV.

- Brian

[Dream240]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'm going to swap the stock pulley back on and check the timing that way and see if my timing is really at 29 BTDC.

It's wierd because I marked the Dist. via the top mounting bolt position the very first time I serviced the timing. And I put the dist. right back to that point.

The same shop smogged me 2 years ago and the timing was at 20 deg.

hmmm.....I'm sure the stock pulley will solve my problems.

Thanks again.

[Bigsyke]

Timing mode needs to be after the cooling fan has stopped (203*f). I believe they say race the engine 3 times @ 2-3k rpms to get the engine temps up to around 203*f then set the timing.


However to thread jack, does anybody have any pictures of what the dizzy looks like @ 20*? My dizzy looks like its fully advanced but its not. All the pictures I see is the 2 bolts are directly in the middle of the dizzy slots.

[Dream240]

Well that's funny because that's where I had my top bolt (dead center) and I was supposedly at 29 deg.
I have moved mine about 1/2 inch to the left and my car seems to run smoother, and pulls better....according to my butt dyno.

[Bigsyke]

You have the dizzy off a tooth. I spent all day getting mine centered. It needs to be just like the picture in the FSM. However;

I have mine completely centered and aligned. During warm up (nismo t-stat) the timing is 20* with the dizzy is centered like in the FSM picture. After the engine is warm, the timing slowly falls to around 15*. This makes me believe there are more things that affect timing than the KS which is bypassed at the ECU.

I dont have any sensors, and I think the VSS, nuetral position switch. I think these might have something to do with the timing being pulled (or even code 105 for EGR solenoid). I have the move the distributor almost all the way advanced, which in turn distances the rotor from the dizzy cap pins, which causes corrosion and a weaker spark. The housing bolts need to be centered. If you pull the cap off and move the crank to 20* BTDC on cylinder 1, the rotor should point directly to plug 1 on the cap. This is 20*, however something is seriously retarding my timing, and its inconsistant at best.

Also, when I unplug the TPS, and start the engine the engine surges to about 2k rpms and stays there. To drop the idle I have to squease the IACV hose on the intake a few times.

Edit: when I touch the distributor cap around the ignition coil (s14)the timing changes completely. I was somewhere around 40* btdc. I retarded the timing back to where the distributor looked like in the FSM picture (read about 10* then on the light), and I touch the cap at a certain area and the timing jumped up to 20*

[Dream240]

Well, I thought that about the dizzy teeth, so I decided to put the stock pulley back on and recheck, the timing.....

Dead nuts at 20* without me touching it.

So here's my conclusion, the tech that smogged my car must have checked the timing, but the timing marks on the aftermarket pulley are not accurately placed. So he must have read the timing based on the wrong marks and said...."DAMN 29* advanced."

So I'm just going to re-smog the car, and get a UR pulley. They have timing marks already on them and I've owned one in the past and never had any problems.

Also FYI, the ebay pulleys (and maybe OBX too) leak at the front main seal. Something about the clearance on the center hole of the pulley being off. The UR pulleys have this problem addressed by resleeving, or something like that.

So here's another perfect example of the "Go cheap, get cheap" argument.

As for your problem, sounds like you have a faulty cap, or maybe a failing dizzy. Try swapping out the dizzy with another one and see if your timing problems persist. I've never heard of timing jumping just by touching it. Wierd.