Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[alpha180sx]

Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100612/us_time/08599199606400)


"Anchor babies" isn't a very endearing term, but in Arizona those are the words being used to tag children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants. While not new, the term is increasingly part of the local vernacular because the primary authors of the nation's toughest and most controversial immigration law are targeting these tots - the legal weights that anchor many undocumented aliens in the U.S. - for their next move.

Buoyed by recent public opinion polls suggesting they're on the right track with illegal immigration, Arizona Republicans will likely introduce legislation this fall that would deny birth certificates to children born in Arizona - and thus American citizens according to the U.S. Constitution - to parents who are not legal U.S. citizens. The law largely is the brainchild of state Sen. Russell Pearce, a Republican whose suburban district, Mesa, is considered the conservative bastion of the Phoenix political scene. He is a leading architect of the Arizona law that sparked outrage throughout the country: Senate Bill 1070, which allows law enforcement officers to ask about someone's immigration status during a traffic stop, detainment or arrest if reasonable suspicion exists - things like poor English skills, acting nervous or avoiding eye contact during a traffic stop. (See the battle for Arizona: will a border crackdown work?)

But the likely new bill is for the kids. While SB 1070 essentially requires of-age migrants to have the proper citizenship paperwork, the potential "anchor baby" bill blocks the next generation from ever being able to obtain it. The idea is to make the citizenship process so difficult that illegal immigrants pull up the "anchor" and leave. (See pictures of the Great Wall of America.)

The question is whether that would violate the U.S. Constitution. The 14th Amendment states that "all persons, born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." It was intended to provide citizenship for freed slaves and served as a final answer to the Dred Scott case, cementing the federal government's control over citizenship.

But that was 1868. Today, Pearce says the 14th Amendment has been "hijacked" by illegal immigrants. "They use it as a wedge," Pearce says. "This is an orchestrated effort by them to come here and have children to gain access to the great welfare state we've created." Pearce says he is aware of the constitutional issues involved with the bill and vows to introduce it nevertheless. "We will write it right." He and other Republicans in the red state Arizona point to popular sympathy: 58% of Americans polled by Rasmussen think illegal immigrants whose children are born here should not receive citizenship; support for that stance is 76% among Republicans.

Those who oppose the bill say it would lead to more discrimination and divide the community. Among them is Phoenix resident Susan Vie, who is leading a citizen group that's behind an opposing ballot initiative. She moved to the U.S. 30 years ago from Argentina, became a naturalized citizen and now works as a client-relations representative for a vaccine company. "I see a lot of hate and racism behind it," Vie says. "Consequently, I believe it will create - and it's creating it now - a separation in our society." She adds, "When people look at me, they will think, 'Is she legal or illegal?' I can already feel it right now." Vie's citizen initiative would prohibit SB 1070 from taking affect, place a three-year moratorium on all related laws - including the anchor baby bill - to buy more time for federal immigration reform. Her group is racing to collect 153,365 signatures by July 1 to qualify for the Nov. 2 general election.

Both sides expect the anchor baby bill to end up before the U.S. Supreme Court before it is enacted. "I think it would be struck down as facially unconstitutional. I can't imagine a federal judge saying this would be OK," says Dan Barr, a longtime Phoenix lawyer and constitutional litigator. Potentially joining the anchor baby bill at the Supreme Court may be SB 1070, which Arizona Republican Governor Jan Brewer signed into law in April. It is set to take effect July 29, but at least five courtroom challenges have been filed against it. Pearce says he will win them all.

[renegade_ewok]

Thats about the worst copy/paste ever.

[alpha180sx]

Thats about the worst copy/paste ever.


really? no one is perfect.

[kingkilburn]

This is going to get the government of Arizona removed. This is NOT a state's rights issue and they are pushing way to hard against the Federal government.


This is in the wrong section btw.

[ronmcdon]

the 'cut & paste' is just fine.
(if it isn't, at least be constructive enough to state the reasons why)

I do think a more appropriate forum would be Loud Noises.
Ppl are prob going to get riled up about this.

Have to think about this one, AZ has some interesting stuff going on these days.

[kingkilburn]

They are fascist at this point.

You have to have your papers for fear of deportation. Now they are denying papers to LEGAL citizens.

http://tenpercent.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/papers1.jpeg

[ranger240]

oh yeah compare things to the nazis..... magnitude doesn't matter when examining history



guess what? it was illegal for the mothers to be here... hence the kids shouldn't have legally been born here


other countries don't award birth certificates to non-citizen births, let alone ILLEGAL presence on their soil.


sure it sucks that your parents broke the law when you were born, but guess what? you were supposed to be in mexico or canada or ireland or wherever the hell your parents are citizens of..


will it be a disaster/mess to implement? ABSOLUTELY

does this law make perfect sense? ABSOLUTELY

do i care what kingkillburns or whoever's retort to mine will be? ABSOLUTELY NOT

hey guys we should go on the gold std. btw :wackit::wackit::wackit:

[ronmcdon]

Just a matter of time before those ne'er do wells in AZ set up concentration camps and attempt to summon the devil.

http://stevemccutchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/hitler-wolfenstein.jpg

[kingkilburn]

oh yeah compare things to the nazis..... magnitude doesn't matter when examining history



guess what? it was illegal for the mothers to be here... hence the kids shouldn't have legally been born here


other countries don't award birth certificates to non-citizen births, let alone ILLEGAL presence on their soil.


sure it sucks that your parents broke the law when you were born, but guess what? you were supposed to be in mexico or canada or ireland or wherever the hell your parents are citizens of..


will it be a disaster/mess to implement? ABSOLUTELY

does this law make perfect sense? ABSOLUTELY

do i care what kingkillburns or whoever's retort to mine will be? ABSOLUTELY NOT

hey guys we should go on the gold std. btw :wackit::wackit::wackit:


I have German citizenship for being born there so you are once again wrong.

The citizenship of the mother is irrelevant.



Comparing a little fascism to a lot is a fair and correct.

[Matej]

As a legal non-citizen US resident, I support what Arizona is doing.

[spools420a]

As a person living in AZ I support what AZ is doing,I'm ot much for immagrants trashing are land and economy leading to our biggest econimical disasters in hystory for arizona,Our land is being destroyed and our money is all being sent out to familys in forign countrys and were getting boycotted for trying to not fall into a depression?
http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/rants-politics-religion/184113-az-sonoran-desert-outside-tucson-az.html



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42v0X3DI/AAAAAAAAB3I/OMT8GN2zlnQ/s400/image_3.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42RfSWnI/AAAAAAAAB3A/20g1SKdT4Dc/s400/image+4.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z410ORIEI/AAAAAAAAB2w/Wv89tFMZ2YY/s400/image_6.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42_CR22I/AAAAAAAAB3Q/qZBcbiFoXhA/s400/image_2.jpg

this is one of a few immigrant trafficking highways from the mexican border to arizona in the senora desert.


And people think AZ's to strict about our immigration laws lol please,If they dont want to be so targeted by the community and being unwanted then maybe they should,..um maybe clean up after themselves for starters.

[cc4usmc]

I love it, way to set the example Arizona. Three cheers for Arizona!

[kingkilburn]

If this is what you guys want then get the law changed that makes the children citizens. I still wont agree with it but to deny them what is(currently) rightfully theirs is just wrong.

[HyperTek]

It will pass, then none-AZ residents will go over there and boycott, because they know whats right for AZ people when they do not live there.. lol


I support AZ in wanting to clean up, they are just protecting themselves.

[cc4usmc]

It will pass, then none-AZ residents will go over there and boycott, because they know whats right for AZ people when they do not live there.. lol

I think it's funny how thing in one state can be legal but in another it's not. We're all part of the same country yet we're divided in so many ways.

[kingkilburn]

This is a Federal law.

If you are born on American soil or to American parents you are American.

There is no interpretation to be made. No debate to be had.

If the problem is illegal immigration then heavily guard the ports and borders. Neither of those are Arizona's right or prerogative to do.

[cc4usmc]

There is no interpretation to be made. No debate to be had.


"Under Section 5 of the 14th Amendment, Congress has the power to prevent the children of illegals from automatically becoming citizens."

14th Amendment | LII / Legal Information Institute (http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv)


So this isn't one of those thing that can't be changed. I'm quoting the Heritage Guide to the Constitution, btw.

[ESmorz]

You're a Fascist!

No you're a Fascist!

Maybe we're all just a little Fascist

FascistFascistFascistFascistFascistFascistFascistF ascistFascistFascistFascist

[cc4usmc]

You're a Fascist!

No you're a Fascist!

Maybe we're all just a little Fascist

FascistFascistFascistFascistFascistFascistFascistF ascistFascistFascistFascist

It's all your fault.

[upsdude]

i love how california is drowning in debt and swirling the bowl, meanwhile its politicians are making resolutions to boycott another state...bunch of pandering whores.

[ericcastro]

other countries don't award birth certificates to non-citizen births, let alone ILLEGAL presence on their soil.

Dude, you are So wrong about that, lol.
fucking Christ you're off.

i love how california is drowning in debt and swirling the bowl, meanwhile its politicians are making resolutions to boycott another state...bunch of pandering whores.
California doesn't do anything smart.
A large part of the dept comes from letting other states take our film industry away for the last several years.
Entertainment is a 3rd of CA economy.

Dont expect CA to ever do anyting smart as far as government issues, lol








Yeah, shits crazy.
The dude leading this thing is actually tied into the KKK in his past.
Im not sure, but i would assume this is also involved with a big TEA PARTY following?
You hear about he mural on the school building the other day?
There were white children, latino and black children painted on the side of an elementary.
People kept driving by and yelling n****r and sp*c out their windows.
So the fucking school decides to paint all the people white!!!!

Are you fucking kidding me!!!!!!

As a mexican American of SEVERAL generations.
I would be so hurt and pissed if i got pulled over because of my race.

Kinda like,...."well, there was a robbery in the area so we are pulling over all black people and running their ID's"

Complete BS.
Unconstitutional.

And i dont know any white person in La that would take the 1 1/2 hour bus to Malibu, walk a few miles to work and be there at 6am to work 8 hours in the hot sun, then go home the same route for $10 an hour.
You cant get an mountain dew drinking obese white american to work a full time job as is, and you want them to go the extra mile?............

c'mon son.
just cause the economy is bad, doesn't mean we need a witch hunt AZ

[ranger240]

Dude, you are So wrong about that, lol.
fucking Christ you're off.



HAHAHA you're damn right i am
(edit: thats the case for germany, im sure there are ''other countries'' out there that dont have such laws, so until someone proves me wrong, that there are no countries with such laws, then i'm not 'expletive, christ off')

i was going to pull a rush limbaugh style move, you know, say something as fact then look up an example to support it after the fact. based on 130 whatever countries in the world i'm sure one or two have stupid laws like that. but do you know what? i got lazy.

this is a car forum and one thing is for certain, you can put all your effort into crafting perfect little zilvia essays on why your opinion is right (im guilty of having done such in the past), but that doesnt change the fact that doing so accomplishes little to nothing. its like we're all playing intelectual poker with full tilt-style play money. sure some people win but in the end we're all just wasting time. we SHOULD be calling our congressional representatives or whatnot, moving something in the direction we see fit however minute that move is. alas, we'd all rather accomplish nothing except beat down some anonymous online ideological objector like a bunch of asses.

damn i just wrote another worthless political quazi-essay on zilvia :sadwavey::sadwavey::sadwavey:

have fun accomplishing nothing guys

[kingkilburn]

"Under Section 5 of the 14th Amendment, Congress has the power to prevent the children of illegals from automatically becoming citizens."

14th Amendment | LII / Legal Information Institute (http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv)


So this isn't one of those thing that can't be changed. I'm quoting the Heritage Guide to the Constitution, btw.

Under section one:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States


Congress does have the ability. Arizona has no authority, not even an opinion on the matter.

Until the Constitution is amended or Federal law is changed Arizona is again breaking the law.

[kingkilburn]

ranger240

I love how even after being called out you are still pompous.

I would hope that you fact checked any and all of your public statements.

[lou's40sx]

My solution is to let all the illegals be legal, and make them pay heavier taxes to obtain their citizenship. Gather up all the illegals, let them build us new freeways and tracks, tax the heck out of them. Boost the economy, raise the living standards, we all win.

[Finchie]

God I love my state!

[spools420a]

Or we can just build a 200 ft wall all the way around mexico




















































































then fill it up with water

[Walperstyle]

From a Canadian perspective. It doesnt make sense to allow people to live and work in your country if many of them are not paying taxes, and taking that money back to their native land to support its economy.

This is not a Racist thing.

I'd just like to see your country get smart and stop giving money to China for building TV's, Iphones, Ipads, blue ray players, clothing, and also car parts. ...Just an Idea.

Cause for many years now, so many billions of dollars have been leaving your country. Then when you start a war on top of that all, ouch. bye bye money.

[Walperstyle]

...bringing up ww2 also has nothing to do with this. stupid kids.

[kingkilburn]

I'd just like to see your country get smart and stop giving money to China for building TV's, Iphones, Ipads, blue ray players, clothing, and also car parts.


You say that like the shit you buy doesn't come from the same place. . .


I agree with you though. Just saying.

[Walperstyle]

I'm also not 'normal'. I really don't have all that much for electronics. Clothing actually most of it is made in Canada. Cost a bunch, but I'm also not trying to make some stupid fashion statement either, lol.

I think even with cars some of us need to shift our thinking. Strut bars, suspension, wheels, turbochargers, intercoolers, and piping can all be made and purchased in America. Why does everyone fall into that JDM trend? In efforts to be cool?

Fact is, nothing is original anymore, and joe average welder can make a FMIC and piping, sometimes for a lot cheaper.

Don't get me started on the skill-set of this generation either. Its amazing how 'smart' people are when it comes to world issues, but have no idea how to live without the internet. AKA, basic tools, and how stuff works.

I get appalled at the tech section on this site (and many others) for the types of problems people ask, or the solutions they do.

anyway... i'm way off topic and its late, lol.

[kingkilburn]

(edit: thats the case for germany, im sure there are ''other countries'' out there that dont have such laws, so until someone proves me wrong, that there are no countries with such laws, then i'm not 'expletive, christ off')


OOOOO Ninja edit lol


Many countries have the same type of laws regarding natural born citizenship.
Jus soli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Specific_national_legislation)




A lot of people in this thread should read this before discussing the article IMHO. It just helps to know the laws and precedents before jumping to conclusions.
Birthright citizenship in the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_Ame rica#Current_controversy)

[handinpants]

excuse me, but i hate to burst your bubble
"Senate Bill 1070, which allows law enforcement officers to ask about someone's immigration status during a traffic stop, detainment or arrest if reasonable suspicion exists - things like poor English skills, acting nervous or avoiding eye contact during a traffic stop."

was already a federal law before Arizona passed this bill to uphold the federal law on a local state level.

secondly, "The question is whether that would violate the U.S. Constitution?
The 14th Amendment states that "all persons, born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

answer: no it would not be ruled unconstitutional because they are not legal citizens, they are not entitled to such rights.


thirdly. the fourteenth amendment in the constitution states "The Constitution has left to the States the determination what person, born within their respective limits, shall acquire by birth citizenship of the United States;"

lastly, if you are committing a crime, chances are you will be punished. if you trespass chances are, you will be removed from the place you are trespassing on. and to sit, bitch, and moan that your a victim, well that's just irresponsible.
these illegal immigrants came here illegally, they knew they should not be here, and they still went out of their way to establish a family here illegally. They made their bed, now they need to be accountable for their actions and lay in that bed

I feel that these illegal immigrants what ever color they may be, don't deserve to stay here, and consume our tax payer funded programs.

[kingkilburn]

My question is not whether the enforcement of the law is constitutional but if the law itself is.

I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.

[amdnivram]

i just think Arizona is becoming a ass backwards state. I can't even see this as protecting citizenship anymore, its just ridiculous. If people are so worried about their jobs they should get off their asses and get one. If they dont like the amount they get paid, they should get an education. IF they cant afford it they should expect to get screwed. You cant blame the economy on illegals.

[handinpants]

My question is not whether the enforcement of the law is constitutional but if the law itself is.

I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.
i think you need to read more about the birthright law of citizenship...
maybe they are citizens, but from what i read, they are not.

when i applied for food stamps, they offer that program to people in 27 different langauges other than american... why.

[andisan]

My solution is to let all the illegals be legal, and make them pay heavier taxes to obtain their citizenship. Gather up all the illegals, let them build us new freeways and tracks, tax the heck out of them. Boost the economy, raise the living standards, we all win.

I agree with you sir, imagine how much money will be produced from 12 million illegals we have now if we charge them $10,000-$20,000 for the fine and to process their papers. and then a yearly tax fee for obtainning a green card or a renewal fee for the green card every year. . . . . just an idea :)

[handinpants]

bump for racy topic

[kingkilburn]

i think you need to read more about the birthright law of citizenship...
maybe they are citizens, but from what i read, they are not.

when i applied for food stamps, they offer that program to people in 27 different langauges other than american... why.


They are citizens. That is not in question.


American isn't a language and English is not our official language. In fact we don't have one so most forms are capable of being given in multiple languages.
Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.

[handinpants]

They are citizens. That is not in question.


American isn't a language and English is not our official language. In fact we don't have one so most forms are capable of being given in multiple languages.
Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.


well our declaration of independance is not written in spanish, french, german, or any other langauge,

[kingkilburn]

It was very nearly written in German and Dutch but that is irrelevant.

Until we adopt an official language you will continue to see many different languages in America.


This has nothing to do with illegal immigration btw. Maybe you should start a "pro English as America's official language" thread.

[theicecreamdan]

well our declaration of independance is not written in spanish, french, german, or any other langauge,

But the author understood the importance of other languages.

Spanish Language - Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia (http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Spanish_Language)

[cc4usmc]

Congress does have the ability. Arizona has no authority, not even an opinion on the matter.

Until the Constitution is amended or Federal law is changed Arizona is again breaking the law.

I understand that. Just found this article..

Congress Mulls Bill to Revise 14th Amendment Birthright Citizenship - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Media/congress-mulls-bill-revise-14th-amendment-birthright-citizenship/story?id=10891360&page=)



I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.

So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?



Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.

Do you know why it isn't the official language? Is the gov just too afraid someone would claim they're discriminating if they pick English? lol.

[ESmorz]

Do other countries let you become a citizen if you plop a kid out on their soil?

Too lazy to look into it for a discussion here.

[ronmcdon]

^

Depends on which nation.
Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?


So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?


That was what interested me the most.
Not like we can afford bring up 4 million kids per year between Child Protective Services and adoption.
It's a financially & practically necessary step for AZ, assuming their earlier law remains.

Agreed with the revision to the 14th Amendment.
The context to which is was initially set up does seem to be irrelevant today and taken advantage of.
Interesting how Europe, and even India did away with Jus Soli.
It's not implausible they would have concerns about immigration not that different from our own (the US).

Now whether the law/amendment gets passed is another story.
(doubt that it will).

[HyperTek]

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw

[D.Adams]

I live in Arizona and I am for this.

My brothers wife use to work for CPS/DES (child protective services) she would get in an illegal Hispanic family every week or so filing for Arizona cash assistance. The Arizona cash assistance program gives any family that resides in Arizona $300 per child a month. So these illegal’s come over to Arizona pop out 4-5 kid make themselves legal then sit on our tax paying dollars and don’t work. Its funny people that don’t live here in Az don’t understand we are not like California and do not want the over population and our money going to another country. When I lived in California for college I worked construction to pay my bills. Every day there would be an illegal walking up to the job site looking for work wanting to take my job. I have lost 3 jobs to illegals because they work for less money. Lose your job to someone that is sending money back to another country can’t have a US SSC and doesn't care about making this country a better place then come talk to me. California can boycott Arizona all they want please do so I wont half to deal with all the dumb kids coming out here thinking they own the town I live in.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gvwUKgz5U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gvwUKgz5U)

[kingkilburn]

We don't have to understand.

If it is not Constitutional it is not constitutional.

It sounds like Arizona has a stupid welfare system and it's legislators need to focus on fixing it instead of screwing over US citizens young and old.


EDIT:
I agree with your video btw. If you are illegally working take a hike. If you are employing illegal people you can equally take a hike.

That all has more to do with enforcing labor laws than immigration and denying citizenship though.

[cc4usmc]

king, what im taking from your posts is that youre 100% behind the Constitution and everything it says. Im just curious to know if you think it's possible for something to be outdated or, not as clear as it should be.

[kingkilburn]

The current Constitution will only be outed when we adopt a new one. Until then it is the ultimate authority.

There are areas that are a little vague due to what we are trying to interpret for. They could not have know what kind of world we would be living in two centuries later. That however does not change the fact that it IS our constitution and we must follow it.











I am not against ratifying a new constitution but that is a very slippery slope and I have ZERO confidence that the current congress can do it. I also have little to no confidence in the average American's ability to understand the current Constitution or the impact writing a new one would have.

[ronmcdon]

Well I don't think you can rely on any document as the ultimate authority on anything.
What's important is how the Supreme court interprets existing law, whatever it is.

Constitution is VERY vague imo.
Thats the reason why ppl interpret it in different ways,
Which is why shit always goes to court.
Which is why law pretty much falls on supreme court's interpretation of any given issue.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the US Constitution at all, for it's purposes today.
The intentions are good and it was applicable at the time it was written.
It's intent for being open to revisions/amendments was awesome.

However, it's just a liability as far invitation to legal/political trouble goes b/c of it's ambiguous nature.
This is probably congress' fault throughout the years as to fail to update it more frequently.
(you cannot blame the founding father for this)
'Ultimate Authority' is more or less the supreme court imo.

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw

Give them to someone else?

How would you go about coordinating something like that realistically, with it being cost effective?
Come on man, USA or not, no parent should count on the state to take care of their kids.
It's unreasonable to expect any government to take that burden, regardless of whether or not the parents are citizens.

Remember, 4 million kids per year as per 2008 figures!

[kingkilburn]

I think you are mistaken. It IS the ultimate authority of law in this country. The Supreme Court must act according to what the Constitution says and Congress can not make any law those goes against it with out changing the Constitution itself.

[nismolvr]

The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.I mean ,if you leave your house unlocked ,who is at fault when thieves can walk right in and take your stuff?Yes the thief is at fault but whos job is it to secure the home?

Illegals do have a toll on our economy ,AND THEY ALSO HELP OUR ECONOMY. If the problem was addressed at the border ,stopping them from getting in in the first place,We wouldnt have this discussion .
Seems like every American President of the last 40yrs has looked the other way and spent money on something else rather than our borders.Our Government has money for Wars/space exploration and bailing Banks and Auto makers out of the red.What happened to all the ENRON ,Bank CEOs that robbed people out of their 401K retirements?There is more Money being Robbed by High standing White collar Corporate scumbags that think their above the law.I mean some of these guys Walked away with BILLIONS.I can go on and on about the home mortgage and loan bankers ..

I hate the media and how they censor and put a spin on things.Whats even worse is that alot of Americans are hood winked by it.They put attention on a certain subject to sway public opinion ,its a tool.

The Americans who had gravy jobs and lost them because of the bad economy are the ones complaining the loudest and If they are working now Im sure they are making less and its not behind a desk, I mean now they have to really work.They complain and see the Mexican building the Homes ,Schools ,harvesting produce and they say "They are taking our jobs!" Really?Government needs to go after Employers doing the hiring also.
I hope they take every illegal out (good luck),and see who claims their stolen jobs. And then we will see who White America can blame next.Americans are pissed off because times are hard ,who wouldnt be? Pointing fingers at illegals and making a racial witch hunt out of it,is wrong.

I am American Mexican and I get pulled over all the time for stupid shit ,I mean dumb stuff.I know the cops are profiling and play the numbers thinking I dont have a license or insurance or think Ive been drinking or have drugs or guns in my car or Im a gang member.I love it when ,they cant cite me for anything.I deal with it and I know not all Whites are Racists.There is good and Bad in Every Race .Some just think they are superior,Im sure that Hitler and his Nazis made up new laws as they went along during their campaign.

I think the real reason there doing this is because they fear that,in 20,30 + years in the future if Latinos keep growing in numbers ,we are going to be the ones Making up Laws as we see fit.......That scares the hell out of them........

[ericcastro]

So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?
Exactly


Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?

I wish so bad i had dual citizen ship with Canada.

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw
Agreed.
And if i lived in shitty blood bath corupt mexico, i would do the same if i had a child.
Much better opertunity here in the states.
But the amount of taxes one child going through foster families and all that shit cost is way mroe then the $300 a child they would get if they stayed.

I live in Arizona and I am for this.

My brothers wife use to work for CPS/DES (child protective services) she would get in an illegal Hispanic family every week or so filing for Arizona cash assistance. The Arizona cash assistance program gives any family that resides in Arizona $300 per child a month. So these illegal’s come over to Arizona pop out 4-5 kid make ......... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gvwUKgz5U)

Dude, what makes you think Legal US residents dont do that?
they do it all day long.
Thats been a problem since for ever.
People like my single mother of a mom will raise 3 kids, put herself through a university and work while getting government help and living in government assist housing, while our neighbors just sit and smoke weed and collect money.

Being illegal has nothing to do with it.
Just lazy people.
Illegals are also some of the hardest workers you will ever see.

The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.

Illegals do have a toll on our economy ,AND THEY ALSO HELP OUR ECONOMY. If the problem was addressed at the border ,stopping them from getting in in the first place,We wouldnt have this discussion .
Seems like every American President of the last 40yrs has looked the other way and spent money on .............bailing Banks and Auto makers out of the red.What happened to all the ENRON ,Bank CEOs that robbed people out of their 401K retirements?There is more Money being Robbed by High standing White collar Corporate scumbags that think their above the law.I mean some of these guys Walked away with BILLIONS.I can go on and on about the home mortgage and loan bankers ..

I hate the media and how they censor and put a spin on things.Whats even worse is that alot of Americans are hood winked by it.They put attention on a certain subject to sway public opinion ,its a tool.

The Americans who had gravy jobs and lost them because of the bad economy are the ones complaining the loudest and If they are working now Im sure they are making less and its not behind a desk, I mean now they have to really work.They complain and see the Mexican building the Homes ,Schools ,harvesting produce and they say "They are taking our jobs!" Really?
I hope they take every illegal out (good luck),and see who claims their stolen jobs. And then we will see who White America can blame next.
.
Mexican construction workers on ANY public building are probably union, not illegal.

People are really stupid and think working mexicans are illegals.
NO, they are just Mexicans.
Its fucking racist profiling.

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.
So now you have lazy americans saying illegals are taking the work while they sit on their ass and do nothing about getting a new job, and collect unemployment.



If you are pulled over for something, thats fine if they question you about stuff.
But pulling you over to see of your a citizen is BS.
Police now do not need cause to pull people over.
No more innocent until proven guilty.

[cc4usmc]

I also have little to no confidence in the average American's ability to understand the current Constitution.
So I take it you're not the average American? I'd just like to know where you're coming from and what your experience with the Constitution is.




-What's important is how the Supreme court interprets existing law, whatever it is.

-Thats the reason why ppl interpret it in different ways,

-Which is why law pretty much falls on supreme court's interpretation of any given issue.

-The intentions are good and it was applicable at the time it was written.


Knowing what the men who influenced and wrote the Constitution were about would make interpreting it much easier. And it wasn't written to last just a little while, it was written to be lasting. What has happened is we've been lead to believe that is has become "outdated" by the very people who continue to do all the stupid things they do while we sit around and say "wtf?" For instance, welfare... Never was supposed to be welfare, but there is.

"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." (Bergh, Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 10:342.)


That's just a quick and simple example of how things have become how they were never intended. I'm sure there's much more of that, but I'm not an expert in this field, that's just one of the things I happen to know.


The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.I mean ,if you leave your house unlocked ,who is at fault when thieves can walk right in and take your stuff?Yes the thief is at fault but whos job is it to secure the home?

So it's the Governments fault you didn't lock the door? I see what you did there though, and if anyone is to blame for our country's spiral downward, it is ourselves, first and foremost. Anyone who is just blaming illegals is retarded.



I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.


You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.


We're really getting off topic though. Someone should make a Constitution thread.

[nismolvr]

Exactly



People are really stupid and think working mexicans are illegals.
NO, they are just Mexicans.
Its fucking racist profiling.

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.
So now you have lazy americans saying illegals are taking the work while they sit on their ass and do nothing about getting a new job, and collect unemployment.



If you are pulled over for something, thats fine if they question you about stuff.
But pulling you over to see of your a citizen is BS.
Police now do not need cause to pull people over.
No more innocent until proven guilty.When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

[Walperstyle]

^

Depends on which nation.
Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?


Canada doesn't want you guys. Thanks.

[kingkilburn]

So I take it you're not the average American? I'd just like to know where you're coming from and what your experience with the Constitution is

I've read it many many times, read many of the essays and treatises that inspired it, and have spent a huge amount of time discussing/debating politics and history. I am actually considering studying constitutional law.


You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.

Farm labor is not regulated by the government. Strict records are not kept and there is not wage control in place. Most unskilled pickers make less than $2 an hour.


We're really getting off topic though. Someone should make a Constitution thread.
I think there is already one but if there isn't one should be started.

When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

If you removed illegals from the farming industry it would continue as normal and people would work just as before. Prices likely will fluctuate but as long as there are jobs people will work them. As I said before there is no wage control so American's will be making the same as the Honduran's and El Salvadorian's are making now.

[lou's40sx]

The question is, Do you like driving in your nice 240sx on the streets with non insured Illegal immigrants? Why the heck did I pay extra for "NON Insured motorists?" WTF. Let alone an illegal that has no right by law, to operate a motored vehhhhhhhicle.

The children should be deported back as well as the illegal parents. Being born in the U.S.A. Doesn't make you an American. Any women can poop you out, anywhere, I was born in the back seat of a Datsun, but does that make me a Legal Datsun citizen? If your mom pooped you on the Moon, are you a Moon person? No, you're a human. Can you moon walk? A heeeee heeee!

My point is that I am not saying you can't play with us, but "if you want to drift the tracks, pay the fees like everyone else and GET IN LINE with the rest of us!"

[ericcastro]

You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.
.
most of them make minimum wage, or just above.
But who can survive off that and will actually stick to a extremely hard job with that?
minimum wage is for highschoolers with fast food jobs and movie theater jobs.


When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

I meant it at everyone generaly when i said that prices would start to soar of we took all illegals out.
I mean shit, people should just think positive, and be happy we arent outsourcing the work to another country.
Yes, illegals pick our food, but at least american farmers keep the farms and we keep control of our food, lol.

Thats pretty crazy your union is SO laxed about that stuff.
But you also arent on the building side.
You are on the Demo side it sounds like.
still, thats pretty mind blowing a Union would take that kind of risk with its members.

[DALAZ_68]

***mexican hat dance music***

fuck you arizona...HA!...lol


Castro : its nothing new bro, doesnt matter if its demo or building, some union workers are still illegal even here in CA...all they need is a fake SSC #...will they be able to collect said SS money, no, but they can def make the money while there working and be under protection of the union and the company they work for...how? easy, the system is run by people, greedy people, who know some one that know someone that is illegal and needs a fucken job...so it happens


If you removed illegals from the farming industry it would continue as normal and people would work just as before. Prices likely will fluctuate but as long as there are jobs people will work them. As I said before there is no wage control so American's will be making the same as the Honduran's and El Salvadorian's are making now.



lol...that statement made my sides hurt...lol

[kingkilburn]

It's not like all of a sudden the cost of labor went up. If some American's broke ass wants a job and grape vineyard down the road is looking for pickers his ass is going to pick, and at what ever the farmer is willing to pay.


You guys seem to think that illegal farm labor is this set in stone thing. It has only existed since around WW1-2 when all the young able bodied men left for war. There are plenty of Americans willing to work.


It is the same bs with the factories. "American's just aren't going to want to work in a factory." As if manufacturing wasn't the backbone of the country for 150 years.


If there is a job some one will work it.



lou's40sx

You are just plain wrong and could not have read the thread. Go read the Constitution.

[ESmorz]

Canada doesn't want you guys. Thanks.

You should be so lucky, Canuck.

[I LUV MY S13]

I think it's funny how thing in one state can be legal but in another it's not. We're all part of the same country yet we're divided in so many ways.


its called federalism and it makes sense..i dont want the to be governed the same way someone 3,000 miles away is..

[DALAZ_68]

It's not like all of a sudden the cost of labor went up. If some American's broke ass wants a job and grape vineyard down the road is looking for pickers his ass is going to pick, and at what ever the farmer is willing to pay.


Fucking lies...not even going as far as to say a picker...but shit i hear it every fucking day how many people dont want to work said types of jobs because its "not worth it", my thoughts towards them is bitch its money in the pocket and food on the table, how is it not worth it...there response to that is "im not down for that"...tell most immigrants that theres work and no prerequisites of paper work, just money and work, theyll do that shit...with a fucken smile and blessing there god every fucken day...

but Lazyness is fucken universal, not just immigrants, you would be straight out blind to say it isnt so (not sayin you are b4 you go off on some tanjent(sp))

like how one of my X supervisor turned down a job because they were paying him 50k less than his old job...WTF!? so fucken what...a job is a job but ur being a nit picky bitch in a field thats draining daily!...

You guys seem to think that illegal farm labor is this set in stone thing. It has only existed since around WW1-2 when all the young able bodied men left for war. There are plenty of Americans willing to work.

yeah, most of those americans willign to work were previous immigrants who just got there papers to be legal...its rare to see an "american" doing a low paying "american job" does it happen? yes is it rare as fuck?yes...



It is the same bs with the factories. "American's just aren't going to want to work in a factory." As if manufacturing wasn't the backbone of the country for 150 years.


If there is a job some one will work it.


factories are different, they want to supply a product (whether of hi or low quality) with minimal cost to them...

whats easier, move to a third world country, pay less than minimum, put out a quality product, and not just save of materials but on labor, while gaining profit,

or deal with unions, OSHA, workers requesting benefits, labor cost, union cost, people who care about safety precautions etc etc...

it comes down to the all mighty dollar...i can bet that good company, that moved there factories to a different country, has already made up the cost for the move within 5 yrs...

[CleanAndLegit]

i just wanna say a few things
im not familiar with any of the bills or blah blah blah
im 18 yrs old im of mexican decent
i have a job working for my fathers company.

let me ask you all who say immigrants should be kicked out or whatever
where did your family originate from?
who founded this country?
were the parents of your parents and of there parents etc legal?

would you work in the sun for 8+ hrs picking fruits veggies etc for 5 bucks an hr?

who do you see laying on the side of the freeway exits with signs asking for money?

who do you see STANDING on the side of the freeway exits with flowers veggies fruits etc TRYING to make money TRYING to survive?

lmk. thanks

[kingkilburn]

Fucking lies...not even going as far as to say a picker...but shit i hear it every fucking day how many people dont want to work said types of jobs because its "not worth it", my thoughts towards them is bitch its money in the pocket and food on the table, how is it not worth it...there response to that is "im not down for that"...tell most immigrants that theres work and no prerequisites of paper work, just money and work, theyll do that shit...with a fucken smile and blessing there god every fucken day...

but Lazyness is fucken universal, not just immigrants, you would be straight out blind to say it isnt so (not sayin you are b4 you go off on some tanjent(sp))

like how one of my X supervisor turned down a job because they were paying him 50k less than his old job...WTF!? so fucken what...a job is a job but ur being a nit picky bitch in a field thats draining daily!...

People will work the best job they think they can get. If Mr. X thought he was worth that 50k then it is up to him to turn down the offer.

All these jackasses lazying about on welfare and bs disability claimed can go pick grapes for 2 bucks an hour. That is the value of their skills and it's no one's fault but their own.



yeah, most of those americans willign to work were previous immigrants who just got there papers to be legal...its rare to see an "american" doing a low paying "american job" does it happen? yes is it rare as fuck?yes...

First I don't get your point there ans second I disagree.



factories are different, they want to supply a product (whether of hi or low quality) with minimal cost to them...

whats easier, move to a third world country, pay less than minimum, put out a quality product, and not just save of materials but on labor, while gaining profit,

or deal with unions, OSHA, workers requesting benefits, labor cost, union cost, people who care about safety precautions etc etc...

it comes down to the all mighty dollar...i can bet that good company, that moved there factories to a different country, has already made up the cost for the move within 5 yrs...

You totally missed what I was saying with this one.

Go to the 4 minute mark.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cOI0V4kRCIQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cOI0V4kRCIQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Those people will work any where doing anything as long as it pays. Most of them would also tell you that the unions fucked them out of their dues, pay, and eventually jobs.




This is going to quickly turn into another thread jacking...

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

i just wanna say a few things
im not familiar with any of the bills or blah blah blah
im 18 yrs old im of mexican decent
i have a job working for my fathers company.

let me ask you all who say immigrants should be kicked out or whatever
where did your family originate from?
who founded this country?
were the parents of your parents and of there parents etc legal?

would you work in the sun for 8+ hrs picking fruits veggies etc for 5 bucks an hr?

who do you see laying on the side of the freeway exits with signs asking for money?

who do you see STANDING on the side of the freeway exits with flowers veggies fruits etc TRYING to make money TRYING to survive?

lmk. thanks
It's the bad Mexicans that are the problems, not the good ones. Just so happens that the bad ones ruin it for the good ones. There's a reason why 70% of the prison population if black or hispanic, for some reason their two cultures draw SOME to crime. Not saying that ALL Mexicans and Blacks are bad but that's just the way things are, facts of life. The horrible thing is that things aren't like that in Mexico, but it goes on like that in the US. The reason for that is because of the US benefits. Most Mexican immigrants come to the United States for a better life, some come here to mooch off the system.....again, that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take a look at Arizona. The state is nearly broke and they are tired of paying higher taxes and medical bills for undocumented Mexicans. Not being racist, but that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take you, assuming you were born in the US, for example. What if an undocumented Mexican steals your identity so he could work? Is it a big deal? FUCK YES. You now have to pay his taxes, since now you're making more money. So, what do you do? Easy, just file a claim, right? FUCK NO. They investigate the shit out of YOU to see if you're bullshitting and sometimes you have to hire a lawyer to clear your name out of your own pocket. Happened to 5 Mexican friends of mine and 2 of them got a "too bad so sad" when they tried to apply in law enforcement. Better hope you don't have a last name of Hernandez or something common because you could be fucked.

And you're talking about immigrants who may have immigrated over 100+ years ago for some of us. This is a different time and different world. To assume that the Polish or Italian immigrants who had to float here on a boat are the same as immigrants who walk here is wrong. You may disagree with what I say but it's because you have a dog in the fight. What if Koreans (for example) moved into MoVal, bought every house around you, tagged the shit out of your walls, cost you money in medical bills because most are unemployed with large families, living off the government, and to make things worst they refuse to learn the language. Wouldn't it piss you off? Well, Arizona's pissed, and they have a right to. Again, not racist, just being real.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

People will work the best job they think they can get. If Mr. X thought he was worth that 50k then it is up to him to turn down the offer.

All these jackasses lazying about on welfare and bs disability claimed can go pick grapes for 2 bucks an hour. That is the value of their skills and it's no one's fault but their own.





First I don't get your point there ans second I disagree.





You totally missed what I was saying with this one.

Go to the 4 minute mark.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cOI0V4kRCIQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cOI0V4kRCIQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Those people will work any where doing anything as long as it pays. Most of them would also tell you that the unions fucked them out of their dues, pay, and eventually jobs.




This is going to quickly turn into another thread jacking...
I don't think it's thread jacking. I think it has a valid point because most Mexicans think that Americans are too lazy to mow lawns, clean rooms, and pick fruit. The American way IS labor and for some to think that Americans can't do it is just being stupid. Sure, a 40 year old man won't be out picking strawberries making minimum wage most likely but a 18 year old looking for some money would.

[CleanAndLegit]

It's the bad Mexicans that are the problems, not the good ones. Just so happens that the bad ones ruin it for the good ones. There's a reason why 70% of the prison population if black or hispanic, for some reason their two cultures draw SOME to crime. Not saying that ALL Mexicans and Blacks are bad but that's just the way things are, facts of life. The horrible thing is that things aren't like that in Mexico, but it goes on like that in the US. The reason for that is because of the US benefits. Most Mexican immigrants come to the United States for a better life, some come here to mooch off the system.....again, that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take a look at Arizona. The state is nearly broke and they are tired of paying higher taxes and medical bills for undocumented Mexicans. Not being racist, but that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take you, assuming you were born in the US, for example. What if an undocumented Mexican steals your identity so he could work? Is it a big deal? FUCK YES. You now have to pay his taxes, since now you're making more money. So, what do you do? Easy, just file a claim, right? FUCK NO. They investigate the shit out of YOU to see if you're bullshitting and sometimes you have to hire a lawyer to clear your name out of your own pocket. Happened to 5 Mexican friends of mine and 2 of them got a "too bad so sad" when they tried to apply in law enforcement. Better hope you don't have a last name of Hernandez or something common because you could be fucked.

And you're talking about immigrants who may have immigrated over 100+ years ago for some of us. This is a different time and different world. To assume that the Polish or Italian immigrants who had to float here on a boat are the same as immigrants who walk here is wrong. You may disagree with what I say but it's because you have a dog in the fight. What if Koreans (for example) moved into MoVal, bought every house around you, tagged the shit out of your walls, cost you money in medical bills because most are unemployed with large families, living off the government, and to make things worst they refuse to learn the language. Wouldn't it piss you off? Well, Arizona's pissed, and they have a right to. Again, not racist, just being real.


i understand everything your saying and yes no racist just real

i am a u.s. citizen and yeah


what im just putting my .2cents about is well
that its not ONLY the HISPANICS
its everyfucking one which in fact you kinda pointed out.
i like your statements and cleared a few things up for me i thank you.
the thing about language is well that this country like stated above is universal there is no official language i speak 3 languages i speak SPANISH(SOME PEOPLE CALL THIS LANGUAGE MEXICAN) ENGLISH( SOME PEOPLE CALL THIS AMERICAN) FRENCH( SOME PEOPLE CALL THIS.....FRENCH)
lol

anyway
what i was saying about parents and founding fathers and stuff

is well its kind of in the same boat
with immigration not the mooching as ignorant fucks.
that goes for every race
anyway like i was saying

thats stupid because everyone who lives here legal or illegal immigrated here.
you may have not walked floated teleported or whatever the fuck you did to get here but they immigrated

[amdnivram]

Exactly


I wish so bad i had dual citizen ship with Canada.


Agreed.
And if i lived in shitty blood bath corupt mexico, i would do the same if i had a child.
Much better opertunity here in the states.
But the amount of taxes one child going through foster families and all that shit cost is way mroe then the $300 a child they would get if they stayed.



Dude, what makes you think Legal US residents dont do that?
they do it all day long.
Thats been a problem since for ever.
People like my single mother of a mom will raise 3 kids, put herself through a university and work while getting government help and living in government assist housing, while our neighbors just sit and smoke weed and collect money.

Being illegal has nothing to do with it.
Just lazy people.
Illegals are also some of the hardest workers you will ever see.


Mexican construction workers on ANY public building are probably union, not illegal.

People are really stupid and think working mexicans are illegals.
NO, they are just Mexicans.
Its fucking racist profiling.

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.
So now you have lazy americans saying illegals are taking the work while they sit on their ass and do nothing about getting a new job, and collect unemployment.



If you are pulled over for something, thats fine if they question you about stuff.
But pulling you over to see of your a citizen is BS.
Police now do not need cause to pull people over.
No more innocent until proven guilty.


I really dont know what to say. I completely agree with you. I see so many people blaming illegals when many citizens themselves do it. Shit with many of their logic, anyone who is lazy and on welfare should be abandoned by the government and kick off to some random rock. Just because people are Mexican and working doesnt mean they are here illegally. My parents were illegal up until a few years ago, they paid taxes every single year and got nothing back because it was just the right thing to do. My parents also agree with kicking the lazy illegal immigrants, but they can't see why anyone productive would have to leave. I mean really, no one is taking anyone's job. If an illegal immigrant can take your job, then all that is saying is that you were replaceable and not important to begin with. If your doing some menial job you shoulldnt expect great pay, go to school and learn something better.

[ericcastro]

It's the bad Mexicans that are the problems, not the good ones. Just so happens that the bad ones ruin it for the good ones. There's a reason why 70% of the prison population if black or hispanic, for some reason their two cultures draw SOME to crime. Not saying that ALL Mexicans and Blacks are bad but that's just the way things are, facts of life. The horrible thing is that things aren't like that in Mexico, but it goes on like that in the US. The reason for that is because of the US benefits. Most Mexican immigrants come to the United States for a better life, some come here to mooch off the system.....again, that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take a look at Arizona. The state is nearly broke and they are tired of paying higher taxes and medical bills for undocumented Mexicans. Not being racist, but that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take you, assuming you were born in the US, for example. What if an undocumented Mexican steals your identity so he could work? Is it a big deal? FUCK YES. You now have to pay his taxes, since now you're making more money. So, what do you do? Easy, just file a claim, right? FUCK NO. They investigate the shit out of YOU to see if you're bullshitting and sometimes you have to hire a lawyer to clear your name out of your own pocket. Happened to 5 Mexican friends of mine and 2 of them got a "too bad so sad" when they tried to apply in law enforcement. Better hope you don't have a last name of Hernandez or something common because you could be fucked.

And you're talking about immigrants who may have immigrated over 100+ years ago for some of us. This is a different time and different world. To assume that the Polish or Italian immigrants who had to float here on a boat are the same as immigrants who walk here is wrong. You may disagree with what I say but it's because you have a dog in the fight. What if Koreans (for example) moved into MoVal, bought every house around you, tagged the shit out of your walls, cost you money in medical bills because most are unemployed with large families, living off the government, and to make things worst they refuse to learn the language. Wouldn't it piss you off? Well, Arizona's pissed, and they have a right to. Again, not racist, just being real.

you seem off.

Blacks and Latino people in prison is more of a social issue then race.
Come to California.
Go into the projects.
people from there dont even get a chance.
for the most part, the government put them there.
And then they are exposed to drugs, violence, alchohol advertising every step..........people in those social areas are set up to lose.


And all the imigrants America has ever had have been look at as a problem.
You think NY wanted all those irish and shit?
Go watch Gangs of NY or something, lol
You remember 15 years ago when it was the Russian immigrants everyone hated.
And here in LA its now the Armanians.
Society likes to blame things like immigration for a fucked up government running our country on a fucking pyramid scam.

Babys being born in the United states has always made them a citizen.
And thats the way it is in most countries.
tis just mroe Racism from Arizona.

Remember 1991
When the Nazi's in AZ wanted to get rid of MLK day?
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[Mi Beardo es Loco]

you seem off.

Blacks and Latino people in prison is more of a social issue then race.
Come to California.
Go into the projects.
people from there dont even get a chance.
for the most part, the government put them there.
And then they are exposed to drugs, violence, alchohol advertising every step..........people in those social areas are set up to lose.


And all the imigrants America has ever had have been look at as a problem.
You think NY wanted all those irish and shit?
Go watch Gangs of NY or something, lol
You remember 15 years ago when it was the Russian immigrants everyone hated.
And here in LA its now the Armanians.
Society likes to blame things like immigration for a fucked up government running our country on a fucking pyramid scam.

Babys being born in the United states has always made them a citizen.
And thats the way it is in most countries.
tis just mroe Racism from Arizona.

Remember 1991
When the Nazi's in AZ wanted to get rid of MLK day?
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Born, raised, and currently living in Ca. Graduated from HS with 76% Hispanic. Ever heard of Rialto? where that's where I grew up my friend, and it's a little worst than Hollywood. I was exposed to the same shit that a lot of people were exposed to but I had proper parenting, and unfortunately there's not a lot of parenting going on in my area. More people are looking to be cool than doing the right thing. And yes, it is a social issue.
But like I said, there were problems that came from the Italians and Irish but they HAD to adapt. Their countries are overseas while Mexico is a hop, skip and a jump away. If an Italian rearended a person while drunk and put the victim in a wheelchair for their rest of their life they had no other choice but go to jail but a Mexican would cut tail and run the Mexico (which happened to my dad's best friends wife). And don't forget, we're dealing with a 3rd world country in Mexico, there's very minimal paperwork on people so locating a fugitive in Mexico is practically impossible.

[kingkilburn]

You want to deal with people mooching off the system. Fine. Fix the system. Then no one can mooch citizen or not.

You want to deal with illegal immigration. Secure the borders and ports(let the National Guard do their job). Make it easier for those that want to be legally to do so, whether that means citizenship or legal resident.

[I LUV MY S13]

It's the bad Mexicans that are the problems, not the good ones. Just so happens that the bad ones ruin it for the good ones. There's a reason why 70% of the prison population if black or hispanic, for some reason their two cultures draw SOME to crime. Not saying that ALL Mexicans and Blacks are bad but that's just the way things are, facts of life. The horrible thing is that things aren't like that in Mexico, but it goes on like that in the US. The reason for that is because of the US benefits. Most Mexican immigrants come to the United States for a better life, some come here to mooch off the system.....again, that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take a look at Arizona. The state is nearly broke and they are tired of paying higher taxes and medical bills for undocumented Mexicans. Not being racist, but that's just the way it is.
Now, lets take you, assuming you were born in the US, for example. What if an undocumented Mexican steals your identity so he could work? Is it a big deal? FUCK YES. You now have to pay his taxes, since now you're making more money. So, what do you do? Easy, just file a claim, right? FUCK NO. They investigate the shit out of YOU to see if you're bullshitting and sometimes you have to hire a lawyer to clear your name out of your own pocket. Happened to 5 Mexican friends of mine and 2 of them got a "too bad so sad" when they tried to apply in law enforcement. Better hope you don't have a last name of Hernandez or something common because you could be fucked.

And you're talking about immigrants who may have immigrated over 100+ years ago for some of us. This is a different time and different world. To assume that the Polish or Italian immigrants who had to float here on a boat are the same as immigrants who walk here is wrong. You may disagree with what I say but it's because you have a dog in the fight. What if Koreans (for example) moved into MoVal, bought every house around you, tagged the shit out of your walls, cost you money in medical bills because most are unemployed with large families, living off the government, and to make things worst they refuse to learn the language. Wouldn't it piss you off? Well, Arizona's pissed, and they have a right to. Again, not racist, just being real.


where did you get these statistics? whites hold the greatest population in the nation's prison system..it may certain areas where the minority are the majority, but definitely not overall

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

where did you get these statistics? whites hold the greatest population in the nation's prison system..it may certain areas where the minority are the majority, but definitely not overall
California’s Changing Prison Population: Larger, Older… And More Violent (PPIC Press Release) (http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?p=635)
The prison population is also marked by large racial/ethnic disparities. At 38 percent, Latino men now constitute the largest share of the state’s male prisoners (roughly comparable to their share of the adult population). At 27 percent, white men are underrepresented in prison; but at 29 percent, African American men are vastly overrepresented. African American men are 7 times as likely as white men and 4.5 times as likely as Latino men to be incarcerated. One out of every 12 African American men in California between the age of 25 and 29 is currently in state prison. There are also disparities by offense type, with African American and Latino prisoners (52% each) more likely than whites (44%) to be imprisoned for violent offenses.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

You want to deal with people mooching off the system. Fine. Fix the system. Then no one can mooch citizen or not.

You want to deal with illegal immigration. Secure the borders and ports(let the National Guard do their job). Make it easier for those that want to be legally to do so, whether that means citizenship or legal resident.
I 100% agree with you. Although, the system was put into place for a good cause and, again, the people who are chosing to take advantage turn a good thing into a bad thing.

As far as securing our borders, I agree. I would like to take it a step further. I think it should be easier to become a citizen legally but if you fuck up, you're done.

[I LUV MY S13]

yeah i thought that was more a state issue, from what i remember from my sociology class whites make up more than 50% of the national prison population..

[kingkilburn]

Generally Whites make up a larger section and are in for much more heinous crimes(rape, murder,arson). Usually ethnic minorities get put away for petty theft or minor drug stuff.

[cc4usmc]

I've read it many many times, read many of the essays and treatises that inspired it, and have spent a huge amount of time discussing/debating politics and history. I am actually considering studying constitutional law.

Have you read Common Sense by Thomas Paine? I've heard it's an awesome read, I have it around here somewhere but haven't got to it yet.

most of them make minimum wage, or just above.
But who can survive off that and will actually stick to a extremely hard job with that?
minimum wage is for highschoolers with fast food jobs and movie theater jobs.


How much would they be paid if they were still in Mexico?


its called federalism and it makes sense..i dont want the to be governed the same way someone 3,000 miles away is..

I was specifically referring to how the rights of people are treated, but I didn't make that specific so forgive me. For example, I shouldn't have to move out of California to a state such as Arizona so that I may enjoy my right to own firearms more freely.


let me ask you all who say immigrants should be kicked out or whatever


Who's breaking the law and who isn't?

And..

that its not ONLY the HISPANICS


I think everyone here is aware that Mexican illegal immigrants aren't the only problem, but, that's the topic of this thread. Well, the topic was the kids, but that only lasted a few posts.

[bb4_96]

This thread makes me happy. you could almost make a whole other thread exclusively about ethnic groups percieved work ethics.

It's not that all white people are lazy they've just lived on the accomplishments of previous generations so long that now every white person is entitled to the best life work or no work... It's just the way we've grown up. I'm college educated, I'm not going to pick fruit for $5. The problem is so many white folks feel this way even if they have no higher education or labor skills(skilled labor). They were born middle class they drop out and deserve lower class wages and expect the same middle class lifestyle. I know because I grew up with these guys.

There is alot of racial poverty in the big cities(where alot of the population lives). Minorities in these areas can always strive to escape poverty but alot of people don't want to. Why would you want to if you grew up that way and are okay with it. If you collect the checks and sling a little you can live pretty or excessively well in the city. I know because I grtew up with these guys too.

As far as the topic of necessity of illegal labor in the US. I don't know any legal individual personally of any ethicity who would work in a modern day slaughter house. Also, no one is going to want to pay for produce picked at $10/hr when they can have fruit picked for $5/hr. It's not that some people wouldn't pick for $5/hr but for a vast majority of people it's not worth it when the system can support you. Hence the necessity of illegal labor. If anyone believes the States can staff it's dirty work with legals and still afford the products then you live in lala land.

I'd actually like to manipulate produce firm's profit functions to see what increase in labor cost would do to retail on the stuff i buy.

[KA_MOCOING_YOU]

Fuckin dumb asses just grow the fuck up who gives a shit where we where born who the fuck are we to decide who lives where and how they chose to live it open ur fuckin eyes n look at what u think is right playing the role of god that's how u know ur going to hell by trying to be him

[Csomme]

LOL trying to be him? By protecting our citizens from ignorant under-educated scum?

I think not.


YOU have a distorted veiw of God if you think we're trying to be him by doing that.

[handinpants]

Finally, someone who speaks logically. I have been waitingfor this for a long time. As far as it being unconstitutional, well I find it funny the illegals understand the word unconstitutional, but they don't understand the word illegal

oh yeah compare things to the nazis..... magnitude doesn't matter when examining history



guess what? it was illegal for the mothers to be here... hence the kids shouldn't have legally been born here


other countries don't award birth certificates to non-citizen births, let alone ILLEGAL presence on their soil.


sure it sucks that your parents broke the law when you were born, but guess what? you were supposed to be in mexico or canada or ireland or wherever the hell your parents are citizens of..


will it be a disaster/mess to implement? ABSOLUTELY

does this law make perfect sense? ABSOLUTELY

do i care what kingkillburns or whoever's retort to mine will be? ABSOLUTELY NOT

hey guys we should go on the gold std. btw :wackit::wackit::wackit:

[handinpants]

Steve, using a fake ssn or someone elses ssn is considered fraud and identity theft. It could hurt other people

[Sam_Well.13]

immigrants does the dirty jobs in the US, but i dont think its fair for the people with no papers to take that away from them. People who come here with no education yet still able to come here legally are willing to do anything just to get by. then you got these illegal immigrants who take that away from them, not paying taxes....its all bullshit.

i think they should just all get rid of illegal immigrants. imagine how much U.S would be if everyone living here is paying their dues every pay-check like the average joe.

[Sam_Well.13]

Steve, using a fake ssn or someone elses ssn is considered fraud and identity theft. It could hurt other people

glad you brought that up.. i didnt get a job i wanted because apparently. i was already working in SAN JOSE, CA... when i actually live 8 hrs south...WTF!!!!!!

[Sam_Well.13]

back to topic.. children who are born here by illegal immigrants should be kicked out as well.. yes its not their fault, but what can you do. its a chain reaction.

[kingkilburn]

back to topic.. children who are born here by illegal immigrants should be kicked out as well.. yes its not their fault, but what can you do. its a chain reaction.

Until the law is changed they are US citizens. If we let them get kicked out we are opening the door for us to get kicked out.

[bb4_96]

Until the law is changed they are US citizens. If we let them get kicked out we are opening the door for us to get kicked out.

Agree/disagree: They are technically US citezens having been born on us soil. However kicking them out will not open the door for us to get kicked out. The opponents quarrel is that the parents aren't citizens so why should the child be. I don't think it will ever get so far as to effect children of legal citizen(s). Thats a bit of a stretch. I like how you try to get people fired up about being politically aware. We need more of this.

[kingkilburn]

If the government can justify kicking out one legal citizen they will justify kicking out any and every citizen they like.


When you are considering laws and government action like this you have to consider all possible motives and results.

When you look at this in conjunction with the new powers* proposed for the Secretary of State you get a scary picture.

*Should Hillary Have the Power to Strip You of Your Citizenship? | The Beacon (http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=5997)

[bb4_96]

If the government can justify kicking out one legal citizen they will justify kicking out any and every citizen they like.


When you are considering laws and government action like this you have to consider all possible motives and results.

When you look at this in conjunction with the new powers* proposed for the Secretary of State you get a scary picture.

*Should Hillary Have the Power to Strip You of Your Citizenship? | The Beacon (http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=5997)

A little radical maybe? I didn't read that article but as far as i know they only want to kick out a the anchor babies(that was the topic anyway) who are seen as a loophole in the system. Thats a far cry from them saying "people from northen illinois are worthless, pack your things." or "your a drain on the system, peace." Just because the federal government has the power to do something doesn't mean they will but thats obvious. Its only scary if you buy into the radical media and make very huge worst case scenario doomsday-esque assumptions.

[bb4_96]

I just read your article. The fact that your that worried about terrorists losing their citizenship frightens me. If someone is frequenting all the wrong circles and it looks like they intend harm against the US they had better lose their citizenship. Do you think that power to remove suspected terrorist's citizenship is going to sprial out of control until hundreds of thousands of average run of the mill mainstream american's are getting ousted for suspected terrorism?

As a side note I think losing citizensip should be a possible penalty for criminals. Do you want to feed them and pay for their college education in prison?

[kingkilburn]

When new laws are concerned I always think of the worst thing that can be done using them.

I don't believe that in all cases these worst case scenarios are the true intent of the law maker but often enough they are. Even when they aren't it does not mean that some one can't come along later and capitalize on it later.

[kingkilburn]

I just read your article. The fact that your that worried about terrorists losing their citizenship frightens me. If someone is frequenting all the wrong circles and it looks like they intend harm against the US they had better lose their citizenship. Do you think that power to remove suspected terrorist's citizenship is going to sprial out of control until hundreds of thousands of average run of the mill mainstream american's are getting ousted for suspected terrorism?

As a side note I think losing citizensip should be a possible penalty for criminals. Do you want to feed them and pay for their college education in prison?

All they have to do is claim you are a terrorist and it's over for you. You no longer have any rights or protections under the constitution.

I'm not worried about true terrorists losing their citizenship.

[theicecreamdan]

McCarthyism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)

McCarthyism is the political action of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

What are we going to do with a bunch of "terrorists" with revoked citizenship? Send them back where they came from? I'd rather see them stay here in a prison cell than be sent back where they can get back to work.

When you lose US citizenship, what do you become? What if some country we aren't getting along with decides they want our "ex citizens" that originally came from that place to do dirty work? Do they have a legitimate claim to take them back? Wouldn't it give us more authority over how they are handled if we let (force) them keep their citizenship?

[bb4_96]

This is getting too uber radical. I'd like to see this be more realistic. I highly doubt that people are going to lose their constitutional provisions for getting a slurpee at the 7-11. You have to be doing some shady stuff to get roped into that. And if anyones running too close to those circles maybe they ought to worry about this new legislature. But 99.99999999999% of america will never have to worry about anti-terrorism laws. I think the line of thinking is if your nose is clean why worry?

[bik]

I am mexican I live in mexico and trust me, i am with arizona...

most mexicans than go to mexico dont do a lot of good to the country, no taxes, only go for money, and try to get mos of the system.

If i see here in mexico a lot of guatemala people coming and making gangs and stuff, trust me i will be as rasist as hittler.

I love USA i have visit it many times and i think USA have his right to stop and take care if they land if they want-can... we dont live in a federation like star trek yet! >_<

[Csomme]

^ Love you man <3

[D.Adams]

lol i love it when people from California cry about our laws.

[BUBS]

man shit like this makes me wish the sun would explode already -_____-

i honestly don't get how people can be so ignorant and fucked up. I think the main problem is the police. they can't seem to catch the right people. i'm sure if they stopped all the immigrant criminals there would be a lot less people bitching about the illegal immigrants that come to make an honest living because they couldn't wherever they came from.
i mean the cops did a great job at arresting me cause of a warrant made to someone who clearly wasnt me, but have no chance finding the guy who shot my sister? great job pigs..

/rant

[kingkilburn]

The problem is that the Feds don't want to make a full comprehensive plan of action to deal with immigration in general, legal or otherwise.

[bb4_96]

^ Why would they. As soon as a politician says the word Illegal and immigrant in the same sentence he looses thousands upon thousands of votes.

[kingkilburn]

Who gives a crap about votes. They have a job and they need to do it. If they do it well they will get reelected.

[bb4_96]

But then there is reality. Best case scenario somebody pulls him on board with one of the immigration reform special interest bandwagons or he sees a majority of his constituants heavily opposed to one thing or another. Then he'd be stupid to pursue the hispanic votes(unless they were the majority lol).

[kingkilburn]

... or he sees a majority of his constituants heavily opposed to one thing or another. ...


That is the case for any and all issues. You can't please every one all of the time.

Either you sell out to the lobbyist and big business or you do what you think is the right thing.

[Walperstyle]

I think the true problem here is you guys have too many useless people that dont want to work hard for a dollar. I'm sure the ones that bring a company money, and pay taxes are the ones that will be safe. ...in any country.

second is too many of you expect the politicians to make the country work for you. Uh, JFK said you shouldnt be asking what your country should do for you, but what you should do for your country.

cheers

[bb4_96]

^can i stand on the border with a gun?

[kingkilburn]

1. You seem to be basing your ASSumption on a bs stereotype of Americans.

2. The government has all the authority on boarder security, I have none. What do you propose I do as a lone citizen to stop illegal immigration?

[bb4_96]

#2 ^ you can stand with me.

[Devius]

Having lived in california for 18 years. Immigrations something that ive gotten "used" to. And honestly. the main thing that bothers me is the fact that they migrate over. then we as native born americans, have to learn THEIR language. which is total BS to me. its not like we go over there and expect them to speak good english. Its sort of like a slap in the face. Our country is pretty much making it comfortable for illegals to immigrate over here. we may as well roll out the damn red carpet.

[theicecreamdan]

the main thing that bothers me is the fact that they migrate over. then we as native born americans, have to learn THEIR language.

No we don't .

[Walperstyle]

^can i stand on the border with a gun?

I don't know what you are getting at, but if you were to stand anywhere with a gun, I'd expect to get shot at. Just saying. :wiggle:

Having lived in california for 18 years. Immigrations something that ive gotten "used" to. And honestly. the main thing that bothers me is the fact that they migrate over. then we as native born americans, have to learn THEIR language. which is total BS to me. its not like we go over there and expect them to speak good english. Its sort of like a slap in the face. Our country is pretty much making it comfortable for illegals to immigrate over here. we may as well roll out the damn red carpet.

Try living in Moncton, New Brunswick Canada. Its 30% french, and somehow its mandatory now that to get a basic job, you need to speek both languages. Canada is way more f'd up then your country.

But really, I can relate to you. You dont 'have to learn the language' but if you wanted a job in San Diego, I'm pretty sure it helps to know it. Same goes for many places, spite English being the most learned language, other people are ignorant to push theirs.

I'm learning Japanese for when I make my 3 month vacation to Japan. Just like how many Japanese learn English to come to Canada.


1. You seem to be basing your ASSumption on a bs stereotype of Americans.

2. The government has all the authority on boarder security, I have none. What do you propose I do as a lone citizen to stop illegal immigration?

1) Thats not a question, so I cannot answer

2) How about you set the example and not hire Illegal Immigrants. That's what help set this in motion in the first place. People heard of a better life in America getting paid under the table.

See, I'm not putting the blame on anyone, but Capitalism is the root of the problem in the first place. 'hey, its cheaper to hire a Mexican and pay him under the table' worked just fine back when nobody was willing to do the labor jobs.

Now that the economy has turned around, middle class citizens need any job possible, that's what brought to light this problem that was brewing years ago. (and Unions made it impossible for the business man to turn a profit: see GM, Chrysler, Ford for example)

Same thing is even going on in Dubai. Most the workers are from other countries like Pakistan, where people are desperate for work.

Its really simple. No money = no food = these people will leave on their own. Keep your 'guns' for protecting whats yours, and the law should favor shooting someone trying to steal from your house :)

Its not going to be easy, but its the 'reset' that needs to happen.

Btw, if anyone is looking for a safe investment, food commodities are the best. As population increases, food reserves go up. Supply and Demand.

[Walperstyle]

what double post? nothing to see here

[ronmcdon]

No we don't .

agreed it's not mandatory, but it can be impractical depending on where you live & what interactions you have with the ppl around you.
living in Los Angeles & speaking for myself, honestly knowing a bit of Spanish and even Chinese, seems often insufficient.

[kingkilburn]

1) Thats not a question, so I cannot answer

No it's not a question but you surely have an opinion on the statement.


2) How about you set the example and not hire Illegal Immigrants. That's what help set this in motion in the first place. People heard of a better life in America getting paid under the table.

See, I'm not putting the blame on anyone, but Capitalism is the root of the problem in the first place. 'hey, its cheaper to hire a Mexican and pay him under the table' worked just fine back when nobody was willing to do the labor jobs.

Now that the economy has turned around, middle class citizens need any job possible, that's what brought to light this problem that was brewing years ago. (and Unions made it impossible for the business man to turn a profit: see GM, Chrysler, Ford for example)

Same thing is even going on in Dubai. Most the workers are from other countries like Pakistan, where people are desperate for work.

Its really simple. No money = no food = these people will leave on their own. Keep your 'guns' for protecting whats yours, and the law should favor shooting someone trying to steal from your house :)

Its not going to be easy, but its the 'reset' that needs to happen.

Btw, if anyone is looking for a safe investment, food commodities are the best. As population increases, food reserves go up. Supply and Demand.

Blaming businessmen for passively hiring illegals is skirting the problem. You don't see hotels smuggling in loads of illegals just for cheaper maids.

If both governments did their jobs in stopping people from crossing the boarder illegal labor would be a non-issue and the Mexican drug trade would all but dry up.

[Walperstyle]

Blaming businessmen for passively hiring illegals is skirting the problem. You don't see hotels smuggling in loads of illegals just for cheaper maids.

If both governments did their jobs in stopping people from crossing the boarder illegal labor would be a non-issue and the Mexican drug trade would all but dry up.

No, the hotels are not bringing people across, but they are gladly saying 'we need workers, greencard... what greencard, here is some money'.

My point was to stop expecting the government to solve the problem, and instead get the business owners to stop paying Illegals to work under them.

The problem will correct itself when there is no money to be made.

[raz0rbladez909]

No we don't .

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember that having to take at least 2 years of foreign language was part of the curriculum in high school?

[ronmcdon]

You don't have to learn the language of immigrants per say,
you just have to take a foreign language course.

I took french in high school,
and honestly I don't see a whole lot of french immigrants in CA.

[Touge Noob S13]

No, the hotels are not bringing people across, but they are gladly saying 'we need workers, greencard... what greencard, here is some money'.

My point was to stop expecting the government to solve the problem, and instead get the business owners to stop paying Illegals to work under them.

The problem will correct itself when there is no money to be made.

Technically some of the maids don't work for the hotel. Most of the maids are from "temp agencies" that pay under the table and find them work.

[TheWolf]

why not just get rid of the welfare state that supports the children? or welfare for that matter. What drove the middle class to work hard every day was driving past all the poor shit box people starving in the street. They knew if they screwed up, they would be there. Seems we've lost some of that motivation.

[bb4_96]

^^ agree

[Corbic]

oh yeah compare things to the nazis..... magnitude doesn't matter when examining history



guess what? it was illegal for the mothers to be here... hence the kids shouldn't have legally been born here


other countries don't award birth certificates to non-citizen births, let alone ILLEGAL presence on their soil.
:


Exactly. In the US, if your are born here, your an American. In any other country in the world, if you are born there... you are whatever your parents are.

So if your a Turk born in Germany, your still a Turk, even if your family has lived their since the Ottoman Empire invaded 300 years ago.

If your Dad was Korean, and his ancestors brought to Japan as slaves, and your born their... your still a Korean.

If Mexicans are so worried about "immigration rights" then why is Mexico so hard on its own illegal aliens from Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua. Why are they not instantly giving Citizenship, free health-care and college benefits once they cross the boarder? Are their Children instantly made Mexican citizens?

If you even actually been to real Meixco, and not a Cruise Resort, the check points, random searches and constant questioning by "Federal" police is beyond anything a common American can begin to understand.

First thing Google Pulls Up -

Michelle Malkin » Police state: How Mexico treats illegal aliens (http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/)

[Corbic]

why not just get rid of the welfare state that supports the children? or welfare for that matter. What drove the middle class to work hard every day was driving past all the poor shit box people starving in the street. They knew if they screwed up, they would be there. Seems we've lost some of that motivation.

That and Shame.

Our Great-Grandparents would have been ashamed if anyone knew they where poor, they would have died before asking for a handout or even a favor from anyone.

Today poor people are trashier then even, and DEMAND that you give them what you owe them!!

[kingkilburn]

Becoming a citizen by being born here has been the American custom since the colonial period.

If you don't like that maybe you all should be taking your asses back to western Europe to see if they will grant you citizenship based on your heritage.



Yes Mexico does have a double standard but until we secure our own boarder we are just complaining about someone else's problem.

[Corbic]

Becoming a citizen by being born here has been the American custom since the colonial period.

If you don't like that maybe you all should be taking your asses back to western Europe to see if they will grant you citizenship based on your heritage.



Yes Mexico does have a double standard but until we secure our own boarder we are just complaining about someone else's problem.

That's like saying "stop smoking and the cancer will go away".

Arizona can not control the NATIONAL BOARDERS, and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT does not appear to care at this time, rather they want to suck up to the illegals to get the "Latino vote".

Since your a constitutional expect you should be aware that there is an Amendment process and Birthright is actual the 14th Amendment, it was not even part of US law until 1868 and was in fact away to legitimize newly freed slaves as not only "free people" but also Americans with American rights.

The great untamed west is gone as is the desperate need for inexpensive labor to fuel the industrial age. We have over 300 million people in this country. Its time to end the swell of "new citizens" and begin taking care of the ones we have.

If everyone in America had a job, the education and life style they wanted and it was wonderful, then sure, bring on the worlds bullshit problems. But the fact that we have so many impoverished AMERICANS, unemployed, homeless and our own drug/gang/crime problems, we don't need to be some corrupt, incomplete countries "solution" to their own problem.

[kingkilburn]

I know it wasn't the law. That's why my post was worded the way it was.

[supervenom]

They are fascist at this point.

You have to have your papers for fear of deportation. Now they are denying papers to LEGAL citizens.

http://tenpercent.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/papers1.jpeg

Yup. This is America. The one place on Earth that this kind of stuff is not supposed to happen.
You have to remember, there is no "American Race". No DNA test will show anyone to be an "authentic American" as you would a Jew or a German.
It's a society which is composed of a global mix.
Even the very first humans who inhabited the western hemisphere migrated here from Asia via the Bearing Strait.
No one is native to this land. Not even the dinosaurs, lol.

As a person living in AZ I support what AZ is doing,I'm ot much for immagrants trashing are land and economy leading to our biggest econimical disasters in hystory for arizona,Our land is being destroyed and our money is all being sent out to familys in forign countrys and were getting boycotted for trying to not fall into a depression?
AZ Sonoran Desert, outside Tucson, AZ - BettorsChat (http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/rants-politics-religion/184113-az-sonoran-desert-outside-tucson-az.html)



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42v0X3DI/AAAAAAAAB3I/OMT8GN2zlnQ/s400/image_3.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42RfSWnI/AAAAAAAAB3A/20g1SKdT4Dc/s400/image+4.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z410ORIEI/AAAAAAAAB2w/Wv89tFMZ2YY/s400/image_6.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bj0fdAQOI98/S_Z42_CR22I/AAAAAAAAB3Q/qZBcbiFoXhA/s400/image_2.jpg

this is one of a few immigrant trafficking highways from the mexican border to arizona in the senora desert.


And people think AZ's to strict about our immigration laws lol please,If they dont want to be so targeted by the community and being unwanted then maybe they should,..um maybe clean up after themselves for starters.

Hmmm. looks like most of that cloth is bio-degradable....

Good luck working the fields for your cabbage and carrots, dumb ass, lol.