sr problems

[Options13]

ok so, when i start my car cold, it mis-fires, and idles rich. It varies, it could be 10-13, sometimes its solid in the 13's, sometimes its even lower than that..

shit sometimes its at 14.7-15, i don't know what the fuck is going on..

under WOT my a/f reads around 10, and it starts to hesitate/mis-fire when it gets in the higher rpms...

heres my cam timing, at TDC, how's it look to you guys

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06098.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06101.jpg

heres my spark plugs (BKR6E) gapped at .033

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06104.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06105.jpg

[tacoboy]

Your cam timing is off. 10 oclock and 12 oclock.

[Options13]

wow, then its FUCKING off, how would it even start?

[KiLLeR2001]

I see 11 oclock and 1 oclock, which means you need to turn them counter-clockwise until 10oclock and 12oclock are achieved.

[Options13]

turn? by adjusting them on the cam gears?

or taking off the timing chain and repositioning the cams?

i was cranking the engine with a socket wrench, and there are 2 dark links on the timing chain, they matched right up to the marks on the cam gears...

[badicalradical]

Matching up or not looking at the dowels they are off. That just meant they're good in relation to each other but timing is still off for TDC.

Here's what they should look like http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf/CAMINSTALLINSTFORSR20.PDF

Just for reference look at the last picture.

[Options13]

maybe this is why my sr is running bad....

pretty much to re-install, i follow this procedure?

[badicalradical]

The marks might have matched up but both cams are off. The matching marks means they're on in relation to each other, but still obviously off in relation to the crank TDC.

Look at this for comparison http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf/CAMINSTALLINSTFORSR20.PDF

I would pull timing covers and start over. Best way to make sure its right this time. Download the FSM and double check the 10-12 when your done.

Oops thought my comp tripped out and I typed it again.

[Options13]

http://zilvia.net/f/archive-faqs/133219-how-replace-camshafts-approved.html


i just looked at this guide, and his chain links are at 11 and 1 o clock, hmm... looks the same as mine

[jspaeth]

Simply eyeing it up and saying 11 and 1 is NOT sufficient, you need to actually count links and shit man.


Plugs look good.

Here is a VERY helpful picture.

This is with the chain sitting on the crank sprocket, and everything rotated into position so the mating marks on the chain are on the cam sprocket dots, and with the engine at TDC:

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad316/golfertilltheend/Car%20Stuff/cams.jpg


You need to really stand at eye level to see it, because on the left side, the first tooth you count is just above level with the top of the head, and on the right hand side, the first tooth you count is just at or below the top of the head.


BTW Yours are sufficiently far off that you should really taken the chain off and put it back on....don't try to use the adjustable cam gears to correct it, bc then in the future, if you want to use them for their proper function, they are already way off to start.....

[slider2828]

Wow jspaeth, I love that guide... I never seen it so detailed! I am going to keep that... Thanks! Good info here...

[jspaeth]

Wow jspaeth, I love that guide... I never seen it so detailed! I am going to keep that... Thanks! Good info here...


When I did my head, I first set it to TDC and got the mating marks lined up....sure enough, I counted exactly as many teeth as in that picture.

When I put it back together, I made sure that it was identical, which it was.

[Options13]

hmm, im probably going to end up just buying a new timing chain then, so i feel more motivated..

if i take off my front cover, do i need to still replace my head gasket?

[jspaeth]

hmm, im probably going to end up just buying a new timing chain then, so i feel more motivated..

if i take off my front cover, do i need to still replace my head gasket?


No. Why buy a new timing chain? are you sure something is wrong with that one?

[Options13]

jspaeth, do you have aim or anything?

i always have the motto, "while there, may as well do it"

so if i take off the timing chain i may as well replace it with a new one right?
i may not, im really considering going back to stock cams and stock cam gears.

but i hope this is why my car is lacking so much power, with bigger cams isn't it supposed to fucking PULL after 3k rpms? mine bearly pulls, compared to my friends stock sr20det running 7lbs..

[jspaeth]

jspaeth, do you have aim or anything?

i always have the motto, "while there, may as well do it"

so if i take off the timing chain i may as well replace it with a new one right?
i may not, im really considering going back to stock cams and stock cam gears.

but i hope this is why my car is lacking so much power, with bigger cams isn't it supposed to fucking PULL after 3k rpms? mine bearly pulls, compared to my friends stock sr20det running 7lbs..

Mechanical timing being this far off can definitely be the major issue.

Keep the cam gears that are on there, and set them at 0 (default).

Also, just keep the cams you have (aftermarket).

Try resetting the timing chain and cams so that the timing is right, you will surely see a huge difference.

[Options13]

hmm ok, as of the moment, what if i just adjusted the cam gears to match that diagram, and see if anything improves, wouldn't that work?

[jspaeth]

hmm ok, as of the moment, what if i just adjusted the cam gears to match that diagram, and see if anything improves, wouldn't that work?

I don't think so....

The only good easy way to make sure mechanical timing is on is to count teeth from the mating marks down to the top of the head with the bottom end at TDC.

By using the cam gears to do this with the bottom end locked in at TDC, you are rotating the cams, but have no good way to measure when tjhey are in the right spot....because the cam gears will stay in place bc the chain is fixed since the bottom end is locked in at TDC.


You need to remove the cam caps and do this the right way....

[Options13]

i don't see how my car even runs with it this far off, lol

[slider2828]

It can run trust me.... also if you take off the front cover, just replace the oil pump....

[Options13]

ok well its either get a timing chain kit, or front cover/oil pump

i guess i'll go ahead and go with a new oil pump

[slider2828]

How about this... before you do anythig.... and pull anything apart....

Move both sprokets 1 chain link to th left (2 chain pins) rotate cams counter clock wise

just make sure the dot marks are 20 chain pins between each other....
and the dot on the cam sprockets should be always in the middle |O O| <= of the pins..

Start her up.... try it.... cause you have nothing to lose except pullin the whole thing apart...

I am willing to be that will fix your problem IF your picture is at TDC on the crank....

[Options13]

ok so your saying to actually use the adjustable aspect of my cam gears and fix them to match this diagram

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad316/golfertilltheend/Car%20Stuff/cams.jpg


because yeah, i still don't understand how the cams are off, i have 20 links between the dots, and if i crank it enough times the 2 dark chain links will line up to the dots on the cam gears...

[fliprayzin240sx]

Simply eyeing it up and saying 11 and 1 is NOT sufficient, you need to actually count links and shit man.


Plugs look good.

Here is a VERY helpful picture.

This is with the chain sitting on the crank sprocket, and everything rotated into position so the mating marks on the chain are on the cam sprocket dots, and with the engine at TDC:

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad316/golfertilltheend/Car%20Stuff/cams.jpg


You need to really stand at eye level to see it, because on the left side, the first tooth you count is just above level with the top of the head, and on the right hand side, the first tooth you count is just at or below the top of the head.


BTW Yours are sufficiently far off that you should really taken the chain off and put it back on....don't try to use the adjustable cam gears to correct it, bc then in the future, if you want to use them for their proper function, they are already way off to start.....


You should add that picture into the SR FAQs...

[jspaeth]

ok so your saying to actually use the adjustable aspect of my cam gears and fix them to match this diagram

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad316/golfertilltheend/Car%20Stuff/cams.jpg


because yeah, i still don't understand how the cams are off, i have 20 links between the dots, and if i crank it enough times the 2 dark chain links will line up to the dots on the cam gears...

No no no no no!

You are NOT going to use the adjustability of the cam gear to do this.

Zero the cam gears first.

Then, you have to take the tensioner out and CAS out.

Then you have to take off the cam caps, and you have to have someone hold the bottom end at exactly TDC, and then you have to rotate your cam/sprockets counter clockwise.

When they are in the right spot, you should be able to count the teeth to match the picture.

Also, there should be 20 "pins" as slider said BETWEEN the mating marks.

[slider2828]

Sorry my explanation just sucked.... but yeah what he said.... Nothing to lose.... so just try.... It was 11:30PM PST and I was watching star trek TNG, the final episode and eating and chatting....

[jspaeth]

And when I said "rotate the cams/sprockets", I meant keep tension on the chain so that it doesn't slip off the crank sprocket or rotate it, and rotate them into the proper position.

I would start with the exhaust side, since the intake side has the tensioner and there should initially be slack on that side.

1) Keep chain stationary....with bottom end at TDC

2) Rotate exhaust cam counterclockwise a bit..you should be able to loop the chain over it and when it's taut, you should count the same number of teeth as the picture.

3) Rotate the intake cam cc a bit, and again loop the chain over it starting from the right side, maintaining tension on the chain.

4) When you are done, you should be able to count the teeth as in the picture, as well as there being 20 pins in between the 2 mating marks.

5) The slack should end up on the intake side between the intake cam and crank sprocket (that's why there's a chain tensioner there.

6) Put in chain tensioner, and turn the crank whichever way (i forget) releases the latch.

7) Turn the crank the right direction a couple of times and make sure that it ends up back with how it's supposed to be

[slider2828]

^^Jspaeth, I think it took you longer to write about it than to actually do it.....

but rotate clockwise for the tensioner to snap in....

[Mazworx_Sales]

SR Cam Timing Tool (http://www.mazworx.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2851)

;)

[slider2828]

For 10 dollars wow!.... Worth it....

[spools420a]

make sure you wear both your shoes not just one when you eye ball the timing,This could throw it off.

[Options13]

ok so, once i adjust the cams, as long as there are 20 links between each mating mark, i should be golden right?

i just don't see how the 2 dark links on the timing chain will line up anymore after i adjust the cams, because they line up right now.

[slider2828]

if that was true, then the bottom jumped.... an you are jacked... but try it anyways, if that is how your tdc looked like in the picture you posted, that is totally not right

[jspaeth]

ok so, once i adjust the cams, as long as there are 20 links between each mating mark, i should be golden right?

i just don't see how the 2 dark links on the timing chain will line up anymore after i adjust the cams, because they line up right now.


They will. You have to keep turning and turning, or the bottom end jumped, but it doesn't matter, you can keep rotating and rotating and eventually the links will be in the right places.


Be careful.....20 PINS BETWEEN the dots. By pin, I mean the rod that goes through 2 neighboring chain links and hold them together. 20 of THOSE between the mating marks.

[Options13]

thanks for the help guys especially you jspaeth, i will have a video on Tuesday of the car RUNNING

gonna fix timing and put in a brand new wire harness, lets hope this is the end it all of problems..

[Options13]

ok so i removed the chain tensioner, and the upper chain guide, i managed to get the exhaust side to where it needs to be, but holy shit the intake side would not BUDGE, there just isn't enough room/slack on the intake side, so i just put the exhaust side back to how it was and adjusted my cam gears... i took her for a drive and a HUGE difference, my exhaust sounds a lot better, and no more SURGING

but yeah look, no room
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06136.jpg

but heres how it sits right now
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06132.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/timberlando/DSC06134.jpg

[slider2828]

Well told you that was the problem, but that is just a band aid adjusting your gear like that.... I would really suggest doing it right.... Remove the cam and the caps and rest the timing.... I really doubt you can adjust it like that and be spot on... Put a timing light on it....

[jspaeth]

ok so i removed the chain tensioner, and the upper chain guide, i managed to get the exhaust side to where it needs to be, but holy shit the intake side would not BUDGE, there just isn't enough room/slack on the intake side, so i just put the exhaust side back to how it was and adjusted my cam gears... i took her for a drive and a HUGE difference, my exhaust sounds a lot better, and no more SURGING

but yeah look, no room


Honestly, man, you didn't listen to us. We said to "zero" the adjustable cam sprockets, and do it the right way.....

I would need a picture from eye level with the top of the ehad to count the teeth.

Are you sure the first cylinder is at it's highest point (TDC). If so, it's porbably okay.

It would be good to keep cranking it by hand until the mating marks line up, just as a double check.

Well told you that was the problem, but that is just a band aid adjusting your gear like that.... I would really suggest doing it right.... Remove the cam and the caps and rest the timing.... I really doubt you can adjust it like that and be spot on... Put a timing light on it....

Timing light doesn't have anything to do with mechanical timing, only ignition timing and CAS-related stuff....

[slider2828]

^^ Oh really? Thats interesting, but yeah, he should really do it the right way.....

[Options13]

well, this is just a quick fix, like i said, i tried to unloop the timing chain off, that shit would NOT come off, i was able to set the exhaust side to 12 o clock, but holy shit, the intake side would not budge at all, there is no room at all for the chain to come off... so i would have to completely remove the timing chain, so im either going to just order a new front cover, or a new timing chain, so i have motivation to do this whole operation.

[slider2828]

Ghahaha Nice man! Yeah for there is 0 room for movement on the intake side.... You have to remove the caps for sure.... Its easiest if you have a buddy with you....