95 ka swap problems. video included

[forcedfour1012]

YouTube - Ka24de swap problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IdsbwXK9k4)

I describe most of it in the beginning. idk if its gettin too much fuel? bad sensor? i took the egr out. idk watch the vid and help me plz :] its a 95 ka in a 90 piggy.

[buentellomma]

i watched the video, do you think that maybe the ka24de uses a different coil pack than the 24e? what about vacuum leaks?

[forcedfour1012]

its a dohc coil.

i dont think theres any vacuum leaks. i removed the egr and we capped off a tube that was still suckin air from underneath the throttle body. i think it went to the charcoal canister so that shouldnt be needed

[buentellomma]

to me in the video it almost sounded like your timing was off, is it running really rich? i think on the sr's there is a water temp sensor that will make them run really rich if it goes bad. you should hit up all the ka faq's and see if you can get some info out of that. you did swap in the right ecu for it right?

[forcedfour1012]

its an s13 dohc ecu. i think it is still running kinda rich but idk if its rich enough to cause it not to run right. i have a buddy who jus did this swap and he isnt using a safc. the timing is right. number was was hitting where it should be. pretty sure all the sensors are plugged in too except for the egr plugs. idk y any of them would be bad but hmm...

[irritatedmax]

to me in the video it almost sounded like your timing was off, is it running really rich? i think on the sr's there is a water temp sensor that will make them run really rich if it goes bad. you should hit up all the ka faq's and see if you can get some info out of that. you did swap in the right ecu for it right?

You are correct. There is a coolant temp sensor (~$17) on the KA. It is right next to the coolant temp probe on the intake manifold. If it is bad, it will cause a rich condition.

If the maf is wired wrong, it could be seeing too much voltage and as a result cause the car to think it is seeing a lot of air. This will then cause the ecu to dump more fuel (even at idle).

I had a KA firing on three cylinders and it sounded like a wrx. I got crap gas mileage, but drove it around like that for a bit until I was ready to rebuild the car. You may just have a bad KA. Pick up a compression tester (cheap at harbor freight or maybe you can rent one from an auto parts store) and get after it. It sounds like you have put a lot of "could be the problem" parts on. Time to start diagnosing.

All plugs look evenly dark/burned?

Keep us posted.

[forcedfour1012]

the maf is def wired right. I have no reason to believe that any of the sensors are bad.. and i don't rly wanna throw money at all the sensors that COULD b the problem, cuz thats a lot of sensors.

i have been meaning to do a compression test. that'll probably be my next step. even if they're all good, at least i can rule that out.

1, 2, and 4 plugs are black after a few runs. i wouldnt say burned.. mayb a tiny bit wet though. for some reason #3 always looks very clean. not black at all. VERY distinctive from the other 3.

hope that helps, ill get to work on a compression test probably tomm

[irritatedmax]

Pics of plugs? They can tell you a lot.

Have you let it get up to temp?

Let us know how the compression test turns out.

[forcedfour1012]

picked up a comp tester today from harbor freight. 20 bucks with multiple fittings! lol

anyways.. i have good comp! readings in psi from 1 to 4 go like this..
155 psi
140 (bleh)
144
154

so 2 could b better, but its not terrible. and all the readings were measure in 3-4 cranks. i didnt warm up the car before either.

and as for the plug picture.. anyone wanna explain to me how the fuck ppl put pics on here? i just tried for like 15 min and couldnt get it. i tried uploading right from my comp and from photobucket.

[D.Adams]

and as for the plug picture.. anyone wanna explain to me how the fuck ppl put pics on here? i just tried for like 15 min and couldnt get it. i tried uploading right from my comp and from photobucket.


photosucket it shit man




how you post flickr images

click on the pic then go to all sizes

then click medium

then go to step 2 at the bottom of the page ( Grab the photo's URL )

double click then right click and copy the URL

then your goung to want to paste it in the middle of this [img*] paste here [/img*] just without the stars

should look like this
[img*]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4255260004_ef610eb8cd_o.jpg[/img*]

make sure you take out the stars.

this also works for photosucket pictures

just right click the photo and copy and paist the property's in the same spot as explained witht he flickr pictures.

i hope that helps

[forcedfour1012]

ok so.. 2 things

one: i found out i wired the maf wrong ... i know im an idiot right? after fixin that, the car ran perfect, all four hitting all the time. it wouldnt rev up tho. i tried timing it and disconnecting the tps, reseting the ecu, and then it'll start but then wont stay running at all. it wont take any revs either at all.

two: when i did the pressure test i didnt notice that the fitting i was using stayed in one after i tested that one and proceeded to test the other three without a fitting lol cuz i didnt notice. basically, i dont think i have bad comp at all so its not a big deal. but when i went to go screw plug #1 in, i screwed it into the fitting and completely fucked the plug. so i had to buy new plugs again cuz i thought the older ones were causing the car not to stay running. but it didnt fix it.

keep the input coming :]

[irritatedmax]

Haha. Glad it was the MAF. Simple fix. They can be tricky to diagnose when wired wrong.

1) My car won't stay running either when I disconnect the TPS. Just check the voltage it is reading with the trottle body closed (probably need key on but car off). I believe it should be between .3-.7V. I have mine set at .46V. I used my Nistune to read the voltage but you should be able to do they same thing by sticking your multimeter probes into the plug. There is also an upper voltage reading (don't remember what it is) but again you should be able to open it with the key on and car off to see its reading.

2) I did the same thing. Total pain in the ass, but I got it out. It worked.

[forcedfour1012]

so your thinkin its the tps? cuz i tried runnin it with it connected and it wouldnt. the weird thing is that the car ran the first time i started it after fixing the maf (just wouldnt rev). it would also rev and run with the maf wired wrong. weird ass car.. lol

[irritatedmax]

No. I was confirming your situation of it not running with the TPS disconnected. Maybe I miss read your post.

Anyway, check the TPS voltage as I said. It works in the same-ish manner as the MAF. The ecu uses it to gauge the engine's current fuel/air needs. The TPS sends a voltage reading to the ECU depending on throttle position (WOT = higher voltage); just as the MAF voltage increases as more air passes the sensor. If it has way high voltage at idle as if it were WOT, then that is not good.

As for it not running, did you check the plugs? They foul quick and easy. I have done the same thing. It started ran and then wouldn't start. I was racking my brain, but then checked my plugs and that was the problem. Start simple then work on the possible larger problems.

How old is the gas?

[irritatedmax]

Double the excitement!

[forcedfour1012]

lol alright ill check the voltage on the tps plug. the spark plugs are all brand new and so is the gas.

[irritatedmax]

I know the plugs are new, but they can foul out after running in a car for two minutes. That's exactly what happened to me. I put new plugs in, started it, ran it at idle for a few minutes (sputtering, rich, junky), shut it off, then tried to restart it and it wouldn't.

It takes two seconds to check them, so - new or not - check them prior to starting again.

[forcedfour1012]

well i gues ill check but i only ran these new plugs after i fixed the maf so im pretty sure its not richer than a ka already is anymore

[forcedfour1012]

the plugs look good. i thought it was the battery cuz it was almost dead, so i hooked up my moms car to it and let it charge for a bit. tried startin it a few times with it still connected and with the other car still running. would not stay running. it starts and runs for a few seconds. it also wont take any revs. it jus wants to die out. :[

[forcedfour1012]

ok so today i found out the car will idle with the maf disconnected. i also got it to rev good once while the maf disconnected and after a few more tries of resetting the ecu and playing with the maf, i couldnt get it to rev up again, with or w/o the maf connected. wtf??

[irritatedmax]

Bad MAF? I am really not sure on that one. Do you have a voltmeter? It would be helpful to know what your MAF is seeing for voltage with just the key on and the engine not running. Can you borrow your buddies since he has the same swap?

[forcedfour1012]

ya i can check the volts. and hes more of a friend of a friend so i dont rly know how to get a hold of him and i think he lives kinda far lol ill do a voltometer test.

[forcedfour1012]

jus got done doin the voltage test. this is with the key in the on position aka "run" postition. i kept the ground on the neg terminal of the battery and measured the voltage on the plug. goes like this:

white wire - .012 V
black wire - .011 V
white/black wire - 11.79 V

[forcedfour1012]

ok so i did the test a lil wrong. that was with the plug unattached and i measured the pigtail. today i measured the pigtail while it was connected (duh) with the key on.

white - .144 V
black - .032
w/b - 11.72

[irritatedmax]

Those voltages are for the MAF, correct? In the FSM, it says to check the voltage of the wire at position "d". However, I am not sure which side of the clip it is on, but the wires are labeled in the clip diagram as "abcd" (in that order). So one of the wires on the outside of the clip is the "d" wire. If one of the voltages you got corresponds to the d position, it should be as follows:

key "on" engine "off" = less than 1V
idle when at operating temp = 1.3-1.7V
racing (idle - 4,000rpm) = 1.3-1.7---Approx. 4V

My guess is the d position wire is the white wire you measured, but double check to be sure. One more thing to check off the list.



Also, did you ever check your TPS voltage? The FSM says the ECU uses the TPS and Crank Angle Sensor to check how it corresponds to the MAF reading. You'll want to make sure your TPS is reading right. FSM "good" values for the TPS:

Key "on" pedal all the way released = .3-.7V
Key "on" pedal at WOT = approx. 4V

[forcedfour1012]

so the white wire is to one extreme on the plug. i havent tested it while running the car but a new maf is on its way now anyway.

the tps is def reading right.

[forcedfour1012]

new maf came in today. plugged it up and nothing changed. the other one i had tested good anyway. the tps seems to be reading good too. so what else? vacuum, injectors, plugs, wiring?

i pulled one of the plugs and it had a nice even black coating. i figure thats what they're supposed to look like after running right for a lil, but mayb not? they didnt look wet, jus black coated

[forcedfour1012]

old plugs were fuel fouled. some of them at least. new plugs made it idle fine. still no rev. soo bad wiring, comp, or injectors?

[irritatedmax]

new maf came in today. plugged it up and nothing changed. the other one i had tested good anyway. the tps seems to be reading good too. so what else? vacuum, injectors, plugs, wiring?

i pulled one of the plugs and it had a nice even black coating. i figure thats what they're supposed to look like after running right for a lil, but mayb not? they didnt look wet, jus black coated

Look for any major vacuum leaks. Anything where un-metered air can get sucked into the engine. Make sure all the electrical plugs are attached and clipped. Double check your wiring on everything? I am not sure how much you had to change to swap it.

A thick black coating on the plugs is indicative of a really rich condition.

old plugs were fuel fouled. some of them at least. new plugs made it idle fine. still no rev. soo bad wiring, comp, or injectors?

If only some were fouled, it might indicate certain injectors/cylinders are having issues. Have you replaced your injector o-rings? Or maybe you have a stuck one that is leaking WAY too much fuel? I don't know if that would cause it to die though.

At this point it is pretty hard to diagnose via the internet. Keep poking and prodding and report back. Good luck.

[forcedfour1012]

so i took the whole fuel rail assembly off today. all of the o-rings looks fine. none were cracked or corroded. jus a lil dirty. all the injectors looked to be in good shape as well.

considering everything.. i have to conclude that this is entirely electrical. i dont believe there r any major vacuum leaks/problems, and even if there were, it wouldnt cause injectors to fire too much fuel.

i HAVE gotten it to rev up and idle fine, but only when the maf was disconnected. sometimes ill die out from fouled plugs all the time, sometimes it'll idle. im very close to taking all the tape off of my harness and inspecting the entire thing. i may start looking for a harness that isnt in 5 dif pieces. mayb i have a bad comp too.

[forcedfour1012]

ok jus to put a conclusion to this thread so that others may benefit from it.

IT WAS MY ECU. either i had the wrong ecu or mine was bad, but i went and bought another one from a local junkyard this morning. i plugged it up and it worked great. thanks to everyone who helped me