Redtop SR20 Haltech platinum sport1000 no start

[misfitsfreak81]

hopefully someone can help out with this. my issue is that ive got a no start situation on my SR. its got spark, got fuel, just wont start. im running a haltech platinum sport 1000 trying to start it on the base s13 map that haltech provided.

ive checked that the cas is working, got low voltage though compared to what the fsm states. according to the fsm it should fluctuate from 0 to 5V while turning it by hand. it only geting .01 to .30 ive checked the timing like 5 times and am pretty sure that its spot on. continuity is there between cas and ecu. checked pretty much everything i can think of. any help would be great. thanks.

Mike

[misfitsfreak81]

ok so an update on this issue. today i pulled the valve cover and made absolutely sure that the timing is spot on. checked resistance on all of the coils and they tested fine. tested the ignitor as the fsm states and everything checked out till the last set of tests. the 1234 + yes - no
abcd - +


this is the continuity test. i got NO continuity with the positive lead of the multimeter conected to the 1,2,3,and 4 points and the negative lead to the a,b,c,and d points. i got continuity with the leads reversed. im wondering if this means that the ignitor is shot? or if the instructions in the fsm could be wrong. the ignitor has been sitting in a drawer of my tool box not doing shit, i dont see how this could have caused it to go bad.

please someone throw some input my way.

thanks in advance

mike

[imaboa]

When you say you checked the timing, did you use a timing light to verify that the Haltech's timing values match your actual timing values?

post the map you are using and I'll do what I can to help you out. I have tuned a number of Haltech powered SR20s.

- john

[misfitsfreak81]

no, i mean that i pulled the valve cover and inspected and reset the timing as per the fsm. i cant get the timing light to pickup at all, im showing rpm during cranking on the haltech. ive pulled the coil, put the plug in and grounded while cranking. its sparking, but doesnt look super strong.

im using the standard s13 base map that comes from haltech, changed injectors to high impedence, set it so it can read my wide band. thats all that i have changed.

tried to start it today after going through all of the coil and ignitor wiring to make sure it was good. while my friend was cranking i attempte to turn the cas to get it to fire, he stoped cranking unexpectedly, i told him to try it again and POP!! fried the 100amp fusible link. so yah. thats where im at.

[imaboa]

Sounds like typical car stuff: Buy new parts, and something else takes a crap.

[imaboa]

I'd still post your map. Lets make sure that the Fuel and Ignition are enabled.

Are you using the Inj time or VE Based Tables?

[misfitsfreak81]

PS1K_Nissan_S13_PnP_RevA is the map that im using. got it right from Haltech. changed the injector settings to high and thats the only change thats been made.

when trying to start it i have the fuel and ignition enabled. i know that im getting fuel and spark. just no start.

These are the settings in the haltech software

Main Setup
Main
Tuning Method: Injection Time
Engine Type: piston
Load Source: Map
Ignition Load Source: Map
Map Source: External
Max Cranking: 380rpm

Firing order: #1:1, #2:3, #3:4, #4:2

Trigger

Trigger Type: Nissan Optical
Trigger angle: 42.0
Trigger offset: 18
Trigger Edge: Falling
Home Edge: Falling
Trigger sensor type: hall effect
home sensor type: hall effect
trigger pullup: enabled
home pullup: enabled
home window: 16
trigger filter level: none
home filter level: none

Fuel
Injection mode: sequential
fuel pump prime time: 1sec
injector resistance: high

Ignition
Spark mode: direct fire
spark edge: falling
dwell mode: constant charge
dwell time: 1.9ms

hopefully someone can help. thanks.

mike

[greenman100]

Official Haltech Forums • View topic - need help bad...... s14 sr20det (http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5733)

[misfitsfreak81]

Official Haltech Forums • View topic - need help bad...... s14 sr20det (http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5733)

thanks, ive been to that already though. unfortunately it was no help.

[imaboa]

If you have spark and fuel the first thing youll need to do is verify that the ignition timing is correct.

Do the following:
- get a timing light
- In the ECU Manager Software:
1. Setup>Main Setup
- Click the tab that says "Fuel"
- Uncheck the box that says "Enable Injectors", this will turn OFF the injectors

2. Setup>Main Setup
- Click the tab that says "Ignition"
- Select the drop down item that says "Ignition Lock" > Enable this feature
- Set the Locked Timing Value to 0 Degrees

Now with the timing light have someone crank the motor over, and move the cam sensor until the timing light flashes at 0deg on the Crank pulley.

Once you have done this, go back and enable the injectors and try to start the vehicle.

There are a few other things that you'll need to check:
- TPS Voltage
- Coolant and Air Temp Sensor Readings
- Is the map set up to run VE or Injector PW Based Tuning?

There are TONS of reasons why the car may not fire right up, but this is a good place to start.

- john

[misfitsfreak81]

thanks John, i will try that. i just picked up a plugwire lead so i can check the timing easier. tps voltage is correct. that i set befor doing anything else. coolant and air temp readings are good, both reading the ambiant temp of my garage.

last night i atemped to move the cas while my buddy was cranking the motor and apparently it blew the 100amp fuseible link in the main fuse box under the hood. i just picked one up from the local parts store and installed it.

mike

[misfitsfreak81]

i also pulled apart the cas to check the internals. found that there was a good amount of oil in there. wondering if there is a good way to clean it. i was thinking of using crc maf cleaner. or maybe brake clean. got any ideas? thanks

[stricnynel0s]

how is progress on this

[jr_ss]

You need to set timing lock at 15 not 0. Also make sure your trigger type is Nissan Type 3 and Hall effect mode. Did you calibrate all your sensors? Change your FP prime time to 3-5sec. You may have to mess with the stepper motor controls if you are running an IACV.

Contact SteveShadows on here as he is a big time Haltech tuner.

BTW, my trigger angle is 48 and my tooth offset is 14.

[stricnynel0s]

out of curosity why use 15 and not 0 ?

[jr_ss]

out of curosity why use 15 and not 0 ?

Base timing is 15* BTDC not 0* BTDC...

[stricnynel0s]

i would imagine though that i am just forcing the haltech to only spark at 0 and i am using the light to make sure the forced 0 and the number on crank pulley are same value

[imaboa]

You need to set timing lock at 15 not 0. Also make sure your trigger type is Nissan Type 3 and Hall effect mode. Did you calibrate all your sensors? Change your FP prime time to 3-5sec. You may have to mess with the stepper motor controls if you are running an IACV.

Contact SteveShadows on here as he is a big time Haltech tuner.

BTW, my trigger angle is 48 and my tooth offset is 14.


It doesn't matter if you lock the timing at 15* or 0* or any other number you choose, so long as you get the timing offset correct.

The cars don't have stepper motors for Idle control, they are Duty Cycle driven BAC valves.

[imaboa]

i would imagine though that i am just forcing the haltech to only spark at 0 and i am using the light to make sure the forced 0 and the number on crank pulley are same value


You are correct

[misfitsfreak81]

just an update. my cas was fucked, so i got another one and fedex broke it in shipping, so now im waiting on the brand new one that i ordered from nissan.

i have contacted steve at shadow werks, he is building me a map so i can drive it to the dyno instead of having it towed. he was super helpful and seemed to know his shit.

i will update everyone again as soon as the new cas shows up.

[midnight_rex]

please do update. are u using the patch loom with the haltech PS1000? i have the same setup but havent quite finished my build to start the car. your info is helpful for me :) this will give me a heads up

[misfitsfreak81]

please do update. are u using the patch loom with the haltech PS1000? i have the same setup but havent quite finished my build to start the car. your info is helpful for me :) this will give me a heads up

yes im using the patch loom for the PS1000. im waiting to hear back from steve shadows about my map. will update again with any new developments.

mike

[midnight_rex]

yes im using the patch loom for the PS1000. im waiting to hear back from steve shadows about my map. will update again with any new developments.

mike
i also have a map made from steve. im gonna use it to break in the motor a lil and drive it to the dyno. hopefully i wont have any problems starting the engine up. ive been have this map ready and sitting in my computer for a week now. hope you get your engine started homie. keep up with the updates

[misfitsfreak81]

so i got the brand new cas installed and was still having tach signal problems. so i said fuck it and pulled the entire wire harness out of the car and totally deloomed it to go through it wire by wire. in the process i found a shitload of wires that had just been cut and not terminated or de-pinned from the harness when i had the harness conversion done a couple years ago. im surprised i havent had problems befor considering the shitty way the harness was converted. (s13sr harness to s14 chassis). wiring specialtys is the company that did it and im not impressed. ive spent the better part of 10 hours checking, de-pinning, replacing broke or cut wires and all sorts of other shit. needless to say the harness is curently a mess on my shop floor right now. my plan is to replug everything and then tuck/shorten any non needed length to clean things up and make it look better and easier to work on.

got the map from steve and hope to have it up and running tonight, i will update again when i can.

mike

[midnight_rex]

so i got the brand new cas installed and was still having tach signal problems. so i said fuck it and pulled the entire wire harness out of the car and totally deloomed it to go through it wire by wire. in the process i found a shitload of wires that had just been cut and not terminated or de-pinned from the harness when i had the harness conversion done a couple years ago. im surprised i havent had problems befor considering the shitty way the harness was converted. (s13sr harness to s14 chassis). wiring specialtys is the company that did it and im not impressed. ive spent the better part of 10 hours checking, de-pinning, replacing broke or cut wires and all sorts of other shit. needless to say the harness is curently a mess on my shop floor right now. my plan is to replug everything and then tuck/shorten any non needed length to clean things up and make it look better and easier to work on.

got the map from steve and hope to have it up and running tonight, i will update again when i can.

mike

i had the same exact problem with my wiring also. the person that did the wiring before had wires still loomed and revealed. ive already done the wire tuck and took the wires out completely that were not used. everything is organized and orientated to where they need to go.

[Om1kron]

wiring specialtys is the company that did it and im not impressed.

mike

This is the second negative thing I've read in my random encounters around zilvia... they're harness' are plug and play and are normally wrapped oem style yada ya. How long ago did you purchase this harness from them because phase2motortrend on top of wiringspecialties themselves sell these harnesses and it would be a good thing to have them perform some quality control on in the future.

[misfitsfreak81]

This is the second negative thing I've read in my random encounters around zilvia... they're harness' are plug and play and are normally wrapped oem style yada ya. How long ago did you purchase this harness from them because phase2motortrend on top of wiringspecialties themselves sell these harnesses and it would be a good thing to have them perform some quality control on in the future.

i orginally got my harness from them probly 4 years ago or so. i think it was pretty much right after they set up shop, not sure though. it took the better part of 3 days of going through wire by wire double checking shit and de-pinning like a shitload of wires that were either cut or just not needed and also shortening other wires that were excessivly long. its finally back together and tucked in the engine bay. going to run the map i got from steve in about 30 min or so and see where im at.

updates later today hopefully.

mike

[midnight_rex]

any update mike?

[misfitsfreak81]

here is a quick update.

last night got the motor fire ONLY when doing a clear flood start. ie holding the gas pedal all the way to the floor. it would run but only if i continued to give it gas and held it between 1500 and 2000 rpm. let off the gas and it dies imediately. for the time that it was running my wideband was showing like 7.5 ish.

i talked to steve at shadow werks and he sent me a new map that had a bunch of fuel pulled from it but im thinking that its still too rich or that the injection pulse width is too long. im gonna try to get intouch with steve again later today. anyone have any thoughts?

mike

[stricnynel0s]

so overall your problem was your CAS ?

[misfitsfreak81]

yes actually it was a bad cas and more importantly it was the wiring that goes into the harness conector. the two wires that are for the 1degreee signal were not making good contact. de-pinned them, spread the contact points in the female pins and all was golden. getting a rock solid rpm signal now. goes to show that you should check the easiest shit first no mater how positive you are that something is right.

mike

[stricnynel0s]

ok so now its an issue with the map ? what tuning method are you using ?

[misfitsfreak81]

tuning via map and load not ve. i think this answers your question.

i just updated to the new haltech software and firmware so that may have some affect on it maybe... gonna try it again in a few mins i guess.

[stricnynel0s]

i heard people had issues with the version 1.07 and its only good for platinum pro users you might want to stick with the older version. i just got my haltech running now, i was feeling lil sour now i am estatic

[midnight_rex]

yes actually it was a bad cas and more importantly it was the wiring that goes into the harness conector. the two wires that are for the 1degreee signal were not making good contact. de-pinned them, spread the contact points in the female pins and all was golden. getting a rock solid rpm signal now. goes to show that you should check the easiest shit first no mater how positive you are that something is right.

mike

wow so wiring was the main issue. i know there is more than one wire for the 1 degree signal. isnt there 2 more wires that are similar to it? i dont think i have the other 2 wires hooked up in the harness. i just took them out since they were never used. i only have the 1 degree signals wired up. i hope i dant have a issue.

good to hear you fix the problem mike. keep us updated!

[misfitsfreak81]

wow so wiring was the main issue. i know there is more than one wire for the 1 degree signal. isnt there 2 more wires that are similar to it? i dont think i have the other 2 wires hooked up in the harness. i just took them out since they were never used. i only have the 1 degree signals wired up. i hope i dant have a issue.

good to hear you fix the problem mike. keep us updated!

if you have an s13 motor than the wires you need hooked up are as follows
#30 ecu pin white cas180 degree signal wire
#31 ecu pin black cas1 degree signal
#22 ecu pin white cas180 degree signal
#40 ecu pin black cas1 degree signal

you HAVE to have these wired in correctly. there are 4 wires that are in the cas plug and six that go into the ecu. the black and white ones in the pins mentioned above are split about 6 inches from the blue ecu conector. hope this helps.

as a quick update, i just got a map back from haltech that eric modified for me so im going to try that in a bit.

mike

[midnight_rex]

if you have an s13 motor than the wires you need hooked up are as follows
#30 ecu pin white cas180 degree signal wire
#31 ecu pin black cas1 degree signal
#22 ecu pin white cas180 degree signal
#40 ecu pin black cas1 degree signal

you HAVE to have these wired in correctly. there are 4 wires that are in the cas plug and six that go into the ecu. the black and white ones in the pins mentioned above are split about 6 inches from the blue ecu conector. hope this helps.

as a quick update, i just got a map back from haltech that eric modified for me so im going to try that in a bit.

mike
im gonna go over this tonight and make sure. im pretty sure i dont have the 180 degree signals wired up. thanks mike for the info.

[misfitsfreak81]

yeah your welcome.

so update time
i just tried to start the motor on the map that i got from eric at haltech. it would not start. so i pulled the plugs to do a compression test(figured i would start at square one) and found the #1 and #4 plugs super fouled. anyone have any ideas?

[stricnynel0s]

i did my map with VE, check your injector MS, make a datalog with as much info as possible and post it up, i will try to see if i can help you

[midnight_rex]

would it not start with steves base map? sounds like your dumping a lot of fuel. hows your fuel pressure?

[misfitsfreak81]

would it not start with steves base map? sounds like your dumping a lot of fuel. hows your fuel pressure?

i got it to start on steves map but only by clearflood starting it. then it would only run if held at like 1500-2000 rpm. im pretty sure that it was only firing on #1 and #4 cylinders as those are the only ones that show color on my turbo manifold and those were also the only plugs that showed signs of combustion. so im workink on figureing out why the fuck only 1 and 4 are working now. this is really starting to piss me off.

[Om1kron]

did this car ever run before you purchased a haltech, or you just built the car and threw engine management on it? It just seems so weird that a plug and play ecu is having so many problems.

[stricnynel0s]

hmm could be the configuration of the map OR your dizzy or ignitor wiring

[misfitsfreak81]

yes the car ran for the better part of 3 years with the stock ecu and mild bolt ons. now that its got a fresh rebuild and a lot more bolt ons and internals its been a pain in my ass.
it sat for almost a year after the old turbo manifold that was on it cracked badly, so i just put it away to save for the build. i have to believe that its something stupid easy that im missing to cause it to not start. any suggestions are welcome.

mike

[misfitsfreak81]

hmm could be the configuration of the map OR your dizzy or ignitor wiring

yes it certainly could be the map configuration. the cas is brand new oem nissan, the ignitor wiring is good, ive checked the shit like 110 times now. im gonna try a different ignitor in a bit.

appriciate all the helpful comments, thanks people of zilvia

[midnight_rex]

mike,

i checked continuity for the 1 degree and 180 degree wires and only 2 of these wires are used on my haltech patch loom. it uses one of each signal wire. i for got why i didnt have the other 2 signal wires hooked up.

p.s. i confirmed that i did wire in a 180 degree signal and 1 degree signal in that right place. only 2 of these wires are used in the haltech. i wonder why? or do i have this incorrect?

[misfitsfreak81]

mike,

i checked continuity for the 1 degree and 180 degree wires and only 2 of these wires are used on my haltech patch loom. it uses one of each signal wire. i for got why i didnt have the other 2 signal wires hooked up.

p.s. i confirmed that i did wire in a 180 degree signal and 1 degree signal in that right place. only 2 of these wires are used in the haltech. i wonder why? or do i have this incorrect?

you are correct, the haltech harness only uses one of each wire. im not sure as to why that is, but you have it right.

so here is what ive got now. ive checked that the ignitor is good, the coil packs are all good. all associated wiring that has anything to do with ignition has been checked and is good. the firing order is correct. the timing is spot on both mechanically and synced with the haltech. checked the eccs and ignition relays and booth are working correctly. yet i still have no spark to #2 and #3 cylinders. ive litterally checked and rechecked everything multiple times. im starting to go crazy that this fucker wont start. please someone help me with some ideas or suggestions. thanks.

mike

[Om1kron]

time to send the harness to someone else to be repaired.

[midnight_rex]

ok lets lay it out for a minute...

1. ignitor wiring and ignitor module is OK
2. coil packs are OK
3. eccs and ignition relays are OK
4. firing order is OK
5. mechanical timing is OK
6. ignition timing is OK

now...you are getting fuel for sure because your plugs are fouled on #2 and #3 cylinders. but this necessarily doesnt mean that your injectors are working properly. sometimes this comes from injector pulses malfunctioning. make sure all your injectors are working properly. also remember when a spark plug does not get spark/power, the only thing that is transferring power to it is the coil. if you are seeing that #2 and #3 spark plugs are getting power VISUALLY BY YOUR OWN EYES, then has to be something wrong with the injectors. if you do not see spark then its got to be a bad coil pack.

this is just the way im seeing it right now. ive been thinking about your problem somtime durring this late night because i was at my shop with a friend discussing your problem while having quite a few beers :) it doesnt make sense if you have both spark and fuel but not starting unless your mechanical timing is WAAAAY off or your CAS is not set right.

[misfitsfreak81]

ok lets lay it out for a minute...

1. ignitor wiring and ignitor module is OK
2. coil packs are OK
3. eccs and ignition relays are OK
4. firing order is OK
5. mechanical timing is OK
6. ignition timing is OK

now...you are getting fuel for sure because your plugs are fouled on #2 and #3 cylinders. but this necessarily doesnt mean that your injectors are working properly. sometimes this comes from injector pulses malfunctioning. make sure all your injectors are working properly. also remember when a spark plug does not get spark/power, the only thing that is transferring power to it is the coil. if you are seeing that #2 and #3 spark plugs are getting power VISUALLY BY YOUR OWN EYES, then has to be something wrong with the injectors. if you do not see spark then its got to be a bad coil pack.

this is just the way im seeing it right now. ive been thinking about your problem somtime durring this late night because i was at my shop with a friend discussing your problem while having quite a few beers :) it doesnt make sense if you have both spark and fuel but not starting unless your mechanical timing is WAAAAY off or your CAS is not set right.

you are correct that everything that you listed above is good. im seeing fouling on #1 and #4 plugs, they are darkish black and smell heavily of gas. the #2 and #3 have no sign of even sparking and there is no heat coloring on #2 and #3 exhaust runners. that tells me that ignition events have not happened in #2 and #3. now im saying im getting fuel in those two chambers because when ive pulled the plugs there is fuel on the top of the piston still. and the plug is clean yet smells heavily of fuel.

5 min ago i did another visual check to see that the #2 and #3 coilpacks were indeed firing, which they are, at least in open air. im wondering if im running too cold of plugs. they are ngk iridiums in a coldness of 9. im going to try my old plugs wich were a 6 i believe and see if that helps matters any.

just to reafirm, this car ran untill a year ago, it ran well albeit on the lean side of things untill the turbo manifold cracked and it was put down for a bit.

thanks to everyone who has made suggestions, please continue to keep it up all help is welcome.

mike

[Om1kron]

WTF WHY ARE YOU RUNNING 9's lol 7 is the coldest you should be running unless it's constantly 160 degree's outside where you live which is barometrically impossible. Unless you live literally in butt fuck egypt.

[midnight_rex]

yea mike, u should be running 7 at the most. just get some copper plugs. throw out the iridium or just save them for something else.

none of this makes sense. it has to be something very simple. im wondering if you have to have all 4 signal wires from the CAS hooked to the haltech tho. have you asked haltech about that?

[Om1kron]

there is also a possibility that either the haltech unit itself has gone bad at this point. do you not have the stock ecu to see if it will at least get the car to fire up?

[misfitsfreak81]

well the plugs were purchased by looking at the enjuku website and they recomend 9s for 21+psi of boost. so maybe i fucked myself on that one. i have spare plugs though so ill try them.

yes all 4 wires from the cas are hooked properly to the haltech harness. i will double check this again in 5 min or so.

im kinda wondering if the haltech has taken a shit. i really hope not seeing as its brand new.

im going to go try it with the old plugs in it and see if there is any luck. back in a bit. thanks again.

mike

[Om1kron]

there is a huge possibility the ecu may have fried, and hopefully is under warranty or something (unless you bought it used.) hence why I am asking if you have a stock ecu to perform an experiment control with.

if the engine starts with the old ecu and not the haltech and you have a steve shadows and haltech basemap. it's obvious the ECU has bricked.

[midnight_rex]

yea try and get ahold of another ECU too. this can deffinately tell you that there is something wrong with the ECU

[misfitsfreak81]

yeah i still have the stock ecu sitting on the shelf in my garage. do you think it will start it though?? im running a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, greddy intake mani. i have no maf anymore due to the haltech running map. the haltech unit is brand new, bought from 240sxmotoring


so i just got it to start by doing a clear flood start with the haltech basemap. would not idle though, had to keep it at 1500-2000 rpm. pulled the plugs afterward and found that i still have no combustion on just #3 now. do you think if the map was still super rich that it would totally stop just one cylinder from firing? plugs 1,2 and 4 were sooty black this time. they iridium 5 heat range. thanks

mike

[midnight_rex]

no it would not start with the stock ecu. ur correct. do u have a fuel pressure regulator? what the pressure at? how do u have your iacv hooked up?

[midnight_rex]

im really running out of suggestions...seriously. did you have the timing setting on the haltech to be at 15*?

[stricnynel0s]

SEND US A DATALOG of you sitting with car set to ign on, you cranking, and maybe you running, where do you live ? do you live near NJ ?

i was honsetly fed up with my haltech, but all problems causing it not to run were caused me so i cannot be too mad in the long run, haltech doesent have best support channel thats why the end users need to stick togeather lol

[misfitsfreak81]

yes i have the timing set to 15 degrees in the haltech and thats what its firing at via timing light.

so yesterday i finally got it to run on three cylinders this time. i called eric at haltech and he talked with me for 20 min or so to help me tweek the map that he built and also trouble shoot anything else i had questions about. he was super helpfull and seemed to really know his shit. i will try to pull a datalog of it today. i will need email addresses to send it to people on here. thanks again to everybody whos helped with this.

mike

[midnight_rex]

its doesnt sound like a software problem anymore. its sounds more like a electrical component failing somehow. hope you get it fixed mike. how did u manage to get it running on 3 cylinders?

[misfitsfreak81]

i got it to run on three cylinders simply by switching plugs. doing a clearflood start and bam it would run if held at 1500-2000 rpm.
its still not firing on #3 though, im gonna try throwing the #1 coilpack on there to see if that makes any difference. right now the battery is on the charger cause shits drained from just cranking the motor over and over. back in a bit

[midnight_rex]

it should still idle on 3 cylinders. ive had my sr run on 3 cyl before and never had a problem starting up or idling, but idled like shit lol.

[misfitsfreak81]

yah i know it should idle on three cylinders. pm me your email and ill send you a copy of the map that im trying to start it on along with a mod list. ive gotta believe that theres just too much fuel still. plus im running deatschwerks 810cc injectors and have been told that they suck for idle? not sure, they are brand new and shouldnt suck for the price that they are

[midnight_rex]

i sent you a pm already. im running 740cc injectors on my setup. i think tonight im gonna try and start the car with the basemap steve made for me. hopefully it will fire right up on the first try :/ im so nervous about trying to start it.

[stricnynel0s]

if its your first start, make sure you do a dry start to pre oil engine. if you lived close to me i would give you a hand

[midnight_rex]

just an update on my car tonight...

i loaded up steveshadows base map and i had a no go. the fuel pump sounds like it never wants to shut off when i turn the ignition to on. when i try to turn the engine over the starter sounds like its not getting enough power to crank. it cranks very slow. i did do a dry start to get oil circulated in the engine. i had the plugs out while dry starting and it cranked over very well. when i put the plugs back in it would only turn over 3 times but very slow. i need to recharge my battery tomorrow and give it another shot. it was getting late so i didnt get to check for spark.

im concerned about my fuel pump tho. i was trying to prime the fuel system since it was empty. the pump will never turn off when priming. after a few times of turning the motor over a relay on the driver side kick panel kept clicking and making the fuel pump turn on and off constantly. i dont know what relay near the fuse box on the driver kick panel would cause this. well tomorrow is another day so hopefully i will get some progress done. any updates mike?

[Om1kron]

Just an fyi, you probably will need to replace your fuel pump eventually. I killed mine during testing and killed a battery with the constant recharging. If it's priming forever that means it's not building fuel pressure which means there is a fuel leak.

But it probably sounds like it's priming forever because it doesn't have enough power to operate properly with a dying battery.

[midnight_rex]

Just an fyi, you probably will need to replace your fuel pump eventually. I killed mine during testing and killed a battery with the constant recharging. If it's priming forever that means it's not building fuel pressure which means there is a fuel leak.

But it probably sounds like it's priming forever because it doesn't have enough power to operate properly with a dying battery.

there is no fuel leak. that was the first thing to look for when noticing the problem. my pressure gauge stays at 20 psi when the car is off and jumps to about 50psi when priming. im going to check it out again later on today.

[midnight_rex]

i forgot to mention that the fuel pump would click back off like normal sometimes. i think one of the relays in the driver side kick panel is causing it to click on and off. there is no leaks in the system. there are 3 relays that are on the fuse block on the driver side. one of the blue relays is keeps clicking on and off constantly. what relay is this? could this be a ignition relay of some sort? the fuel pump relay is not on the fuse block like the ones o mentioned.

[greenman100]

My Haltech started my SR20 no issues.

You need to get it running on stock EMS first, otherwise you're bothering Haltech support with issues they dont have experience solving, nor the responsibility of figuring out.

[midnight_rex]

My Haltech started my SR20 no issues.

You need to get it running on stock EMS first, otherwise you're bothering Haltech support with issues they dont have experience solving, nor the responsibility of figuring out.

yea im gonna load up the basemap haltech included and try to start it from there.

[greenman100]

yea im gonna load up the basemap haltech included and try to start it from there.

No, start with your STOCK EMS. This gets rid of as many variables as possible. Sometimes, basemaps have bad values for trigger window, etc.

Find a known good stock ECU. Plug it in. If it doesn't work, you know its a wiring or sensor issue.

[midnight_rex]

No, start with your STOCK EMS. This gets rid of as many variables as possible. Sometimes, basemaps have bad values for trigger window, etc.

Find a known good stock ECU. Plug it in. If it doesn't work, you know its a wiring or sensor issue.

im not running a MAF sensor anymore. im running a MAP sensor. it will not start with a stock ECU

[misfitsfreak81]

yeah once you go to the haltech the maf is eliminated and switch to run off of a map sensor. so it will never start with the stock ecu. end of story on that one.

so i got the some bitch to start and idle on its own juice tonight finally. it was a matter of getting the injector latency times from Deatschwerks for the injectors im running and popping that info into the haltech, made some adjustments to the duty cyle on the iacv and bam, bitch starts on the second revolution!! finally running on all 4 cylinders. then i adjusted the idle manualy on the iacv itself. got it to idle at about 1000rpm with a slight lope due to the cams.
the settings that eric had in the map he built me were just educated guesses as to the latency times. that shit appears to be super critical to get right. otherwise your injectors are on way too long and no matter how much fuel you pull out of the base map youll likely never get anywhere.

midnight rex, it sounds like you have a combo of shot battery and a sticking relay. i know that the eccs relay is on the pass side behind the factory ecu, if youre looking in the cavity its the one on the left. should be like 3 red wires and a black with white stripe wire. this is on a us s14, not sure what car you have but hopefully that helps. i believe that the ignition relay is in the fuse pannel driver side foot well. also sounds like your fuel pump relay could be sticking or the setting in the haltech for fuel pump prime duration is jacked.

thanks to everybody who chimed in on this issue. hope to have my car on the dyno by the middle of next week. ill try to post a dyno sheet when i get one. lets keep this alive in order to help others who may be having the same or similar issues to the ones above.

Mike

[midnight_rex]

I have a s14 with a fully built SR20.

well i got my car started tonight! it was a matter of having a fully charged battery and lots of cranking to build up compression lol. it fired up and sounded strong. im having the same problem as you mike. i cant get it to idle. i had to hold it at 2.5k rpm so it wouldnt die. tomorrow im getting a new battery and some new plugs for backups. the fuel pump relay situation is weird. somtimes it will cut off and then sometimes it will have the pump contantly priming. should i just get a new relay? i didnt have a extra relay to check it with.

[misfitsfreak81]

I have a s14 with a fully built SR20.

well i got my car started tonight! it was a matter of having a fully charged battery and lots of cranking to build up compression lol. it fired up and sounded strong. im having the same problem as you mike. i cant get it to idle. i had to hold it at 2.5k rpm so it wouldnt die. tomorrow im getting a new battery and some new plugs for backups. the fuel pump relay situation is weird. somtimes it will cut off and then sometimes it will have the pump contantly priming. should i just get a new relay? i didnt have a extra relay to check it with.

right on, my s14 is pretty much built too, only things left are aluminum drive shaft and body kit and paint. still rockin the stock old lady gold. i hate the color but oh well. gonna reapolster the interior within the month hopefully, got some Bride fabric at blowout price so i bought a shit load of it. and have special plans for the doors and headliner.

yeah id just pick up an extra relay or two, i think they are less than 10 bucks usually. i had a bunch laying around in extra harnesses so those are my backups. i pm'd you with extra info about getting your idle better. also as i side note i threw some cheapass ngk coppers in there to tune on then will likely go back to iridiums at the first oil change.

Mike

[GhostofAkina]

Glad to see you guys got your gremlins worked out! I bought a haltech ps1000 this winter and have yet to put it in. Mostly due to lazyness. Was wondering what ends up being done with the maf wires after the haltech is in and there is no need for them. I know I could probably just look at a pinout but figure I'd just ask. Also, did either of you use the base maps that came with the ecu? I've read that you have to import the E8 s13 sr map but not everything transfers over cleanly. I just recently E-mailed Claudio at haltech for the converted map but haven't heard back from him yet. Edit: I have the pnp kit

[misfitsfreak81]

have you heard back from claudio? hes usually kinda slow for what i can tell.

i went through my harness and de pinned everything that was no longer needed or used. it takes a while but makes everything easier and look better. i used map that i got from chris at haltech. it at least got it started. the biggest thing is to make sure you have the injector dead time or latency set correctly.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto and Fabrication

[steve shadows]

yah i know it should idle on three cylinders. pm me your email and ill send you a copy of the map that im trying to start it on along with a mod list. ive gotta believe that theres just too much fuel still. plus im running deatschwerks 810cc injectors and have been told that they suck for idle? not sure, they are brand new and shouldnt suck for the price that they are

Yes...Please move to Denso type injectors, any Tomei, SARD or Nismo will work.

I had lots of issues with my 810 D-werks, switched to SARDs and made a world of difference on my personal race car. Did this on some other customers cars also made a big difference.

[misfitsfreak81]

well the motor is down due to what i believe to be a malfunction in tuning. pretty sure that the motor will go boom when reving to 7500 @ 12psi with timing locked to 15degrees. someone correct me if im wrong or back me up if im right. pm me if you want more details.

crushed #4 rod bearing wich took out the other bearings in the bottom end, screwed the rod and the crank ect.... soooo its back to square one with another rebuild on the way. gonna go 87mm pistons, forged rods and possibly a stroker crank. block is going to the machine shop on sat to get punched and line honed and the head is getting a reworking that has nothing to due with the bearing letting go. ill keep this updated hopefully with pics when i can.

Mike

[greenman100]

well the motor is down due to what i believe to be a malfunction in tuning. pretty sure that the motor will go boom when reving to 7500 @ 12psi with timing locked to 15degrees. someone correct me if im wrong or back me up if im right. pm me if you want more details.

crushed #4 rod bearing wich took out the other bearings in the bottom end, screwed the rod and the crank ect.... soooo its back to square one with another rebuild on the way. gonna go 87mm pistons, forged rods and possibly a stroker crank. block is going to the machine shop on sat to get punched and line honed and the head is getting a reworking that has nothing to due with the bearing letting go. ill keep this updated hopefully with pics when i can.

Mike


15deg at 12psi is pretty conservative, actually.

something else is wrong. the only place you have less than 15deg timing at 12psi is <2000rpm....which you cant make that much boost at.

only thing i can think of is bad cas adj, bad assembly, bad bearings, bad lubricant

[misfitsfreak81]

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.

[Geno750]

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.

If you left the timing locked, the ecu will pretty much ignore your ignition map and just stick with whatever the lock value is set to.

[greenman100]

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.


no, no, no, no!

The more "advanced" the timing is, the earlier before TDC the spark plug fires.
The more "retarded" the timing is, the later it fires.

As you can probably imagine, under boost, you want to fire later - this minimizes stresses and potential for detonation. If you fire early, then the mixture is burning while the piston is still compressing, which makes for higher combustion temperatures and pressures.

These higher temperatures/pressures make for more power, but more stress on the engine as knocking develops.

Timing and AFR are for our purposes unrelated. AFR is dependent purely on injector pulse width. The fact that you're 8:1 on decel means that your high vac, high RPM portion of the map is too rich.

Might be a good idea to post your fuel and ignition maps up here in screenshot form.

As far as blowing the motor, if you were timing locked to 15deg, my bet is that your base timing was incorrect, meaning that in actuality you were locked to a value greater than 15deg.... or you had a boost spike.

[misfitsfreak81]

i will attempt to post a screen shot of the fuel map. the map is appears to be just fine. i was guessing that the 8.0 i was seeing on the wideband was due the the severe misfires that were happening on decel and that the ecu was just dumping fuel to stop the knock. this car ran fine for 2 weeks on the exact fuel map that it was running when it popped. the only variable was that the ignition was accidentaly locked at 15deg. that is the only change. so im relating the motor poping to the lock timing.

thanks for any more input

[greenman100]

i will attempt to post a screen shot of the fuel map. the map is appears to be just fine. i was guessing that the 8.0 i was seeing on the wideband was due the the severe misfires that were happening on decel and that the ecu was just dumping fuel to stop the knock. this car ran fine for 2 weeks on the exact fuel map that it was running when it popped. the only variable was that the ignition was accidentaly locked at 15deg. that is the only change. so im relating the motor poping to the lock timing.

thanks for any more input

Misfires result in lean readings, typically.

Misfire causing car to run lean and smell like fuel? - evolutionm.net (http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-engine-management-tuning-forums/428970-misfire-causing-car-run-lean-smell-like-fuel.html)

Haltechs don't have knock control.