Feelings on "Rebel" flag

[kingkilburn]

How do you guys feel about the "Rebel" flag?

Personally whenever I see one I feel an urge to punch some one in the face. It annoys me to no end to see idiot rednecks with the shit plastered all over the cars and even tattooed on their bodies when either they A) don't understand what it really means or B) know full well what it means and choose to make known publicly how they feel.


I drove past a house today with a MONSTER rebel flag flying higher than the stars and stripes. I'm fighting every urge in my body not to burn a cross in their front yard tonight.

[tsx1racer04]

Calm down man, its just part of their Southern "Heritage". I mean, they could express themselves anyway they want to as long as they don't physically hurt someone or break the law. But if they chose to wave the Confederate Flag around let them do so.

Just don't concern yourself over useless matters like this. Instead, do something productive.

[kingkilburn]

I can't accept that even in the south. It annoyed me when I lived in Georgia and it pisses me of here and now.

[Jtuned_andy]

This is America, land of the free...home of the brave

untwist your panties and deal with it

[dert420sx]

the only car it ever looked cool on was the General from the Dukes of Hazard.

everyone else who sports it proudly is showing the world that they're racist, imo.

[soreballz]

What, so it's wrong to be proud of your heritage? It's not even a racist thing. Yes, some people who fly those flags are racist, but not all.

Fuck off, crybabies.

[hOngsterr]

last time i saw a azn guy with a lifted truck with the confederate flag as his front plates lol

[ronmcdon]

How do you guys feel about the "Rebel" flag?

Personally whenever I see one I feel an urge to punch some one in the face. It annoys me to no end to see idiot rednecks with the shit plastered all over the cars and even tattooed on their bodies when either they A) don't understand what it really means or B) know full well what it means and choose to make known publicly how they feel.


you might want to elaborate your presumptions there.

[Mister.E]

the only car it ever looked cool on was the General from the Dukes of Hazard.

everyone else who sports it proudly is showing the world that they're racist, imo.

the flag does not represent racism or slavery. the flag represents the South. yes they flew the flag at a time when slavery was acceptable but that is clearly not what it is all about. Yes, some who fly the flag are racists, so what? Everybody has exhibited some sort of racism in their life at one time or another so dont act like you are some golden child.

and WTF would burning a cross in their front yard prove? OP, you are retarded

[kingkilburn]

Very few people that fly the rebel flag are waving it as a banner of free economics and trade. Even fewer wave it as a martyr for state's rights.

A lot wave it because they are racist. More wave it because they are ignorant. I can't forgive either.

Claiming heritage is a cop out. I'm proud to say that I'm from Georgia but I would NEVER fly that flag.




I am not nor have ever been racist in my life.

The rebel flag stopped being a symbol of the south when they were brought back into the Union.

The cross burning in their front yard would be me saying "If you want some of the rebel get all of it"

[way2fastforu]

if they arent doin anythin to you leave them be
its none of your business wat flag they have flyin outside their house/property.
an to burn a cross in front of their house is plain stupid an imature

[kingkilburn]

It just kills me that the freedom that lets them fly the flag is at odds with what the flag means.

Every time I see the flag it's like a big "fuck you you're black". It should not be aloud and yet it must be at the same time.

[ms!3]

white power y'all.

[soreballz]

Every time I see the flag it's like a big "fuck you you're black". It should not be aloud and yet it must be at the same time.
Seriously, you're fucking stupid.

[kingkilburn]

Ok. Fuck you too.



EDIt
If no one wants to debate with out bs fallacies or share some kind of support for either position I guess this will just get locked.

[ThatGuy]

Without BS fallacies?

You're the one trying to state that the flag means NOTHING but racism, and that you want to burn a cross in their front yard. You can't throw stones, than try to hide in your glass house.

If you want to have an actual DISCUSSION about the flag and it's meaning(s), then I suggest you approach the topic with a bit more of a level head.

If you want an ACTUAL point to discuss: Why were these ignorant individuals flying ANY flag higher than the flag of the United States of America, on American soil?

[Mister.E]

I suggest you approach the topic with a bit more of a level head

this will not happen. he is too focused on what he believes and it seems as if he knows nothing else about the flag or it's heritage.

i am not for or against the flag personally, but this guy is just stupid.

[kingkilburn]

If you want an ACTUAL point to discuss: Why were these ignorant individuals flying ANY flag higher than the flag of the United States of America, on American soil?

That is a big part of what made me so mad about it. This flag was massive, something like 40-50 feet long with the puny flag below it.

That isn't simply making a personal statement; it is inciting a response as big as the flag itself.

[Agamemnon]

If you want an ACTUAL point to discuss: Why were these ignorant individuals flying ANY flag higher than the flag of the United States of America, on American soil?

BINGO!

If there is any reason to get your panties in a bind, it's that Stars and Stripes aren't on the top of the mast.

OP- what exactly are you mad about? Are you in the camp of people that view the Southern Cross as a symbol of racism and Jim Crow laws. Or are you pissed that someone was trying to express that the values of the old confederacy are more important than the USA?

[kingkilburn]

A little of both mixed with the fact that a lot of people don't understand any of the history behind it whether they be for or against it.

[Mister.E]

the fact that a lot of people don't understand any of the history behind it

clearly you also fall into this group of people because you havent brought one good point to the table.

Barry makes a good point too. it reminds me a lot of this video:

nONjlZ8YMkA

[ericcastro]

I feel that shit is racist too.

But some feel its part of "southern pride".

And then it is used as a racist banner by arians.

So its a toughy.

Personally, if I lived next to someone that flew that shit, and they refused to remove it after I explained the way it made me feel, then im sure there would be problems.

just like if I had something in my front yard that made someone uncomfortable, I would remove it.
But thats just me.

Holidays and Parades are great for flags.
But I also am annoyed at Mexicans and Salvy's that have that shit on their car.
Im Mexican, we used to own CA, but I dont need to fly that shit.

I live in the here and now.
It is what it is.
Grow up and deal with it.
Stop living in the past with that shit.

just sayin my personal view.

[kingkilburn]

clearly you also fall into this group of people because you havent brought one good point to the table.


Clearly I must. Right, because you have brought such irrefutable data to show why I should feel otherwise.


Would you like me to tell you the history and historical significance of the flag? Maybe the different designs it's had up to the end of the civil war. How about its social history and continued impact on modern America?

[lewisfk]

I don't fuck with anyone who flies the rebel flag that includes people in the military!! I don't care what reason u have for it, its still a symbol of hatred, fear, and yes people still are being killed with that piece of shit flag waving in the background.

[murda-c]

It woulda been funny as shit to see some mexican dude deck that old guy for the flag lol.

[Mister.E]

why?

no other nation's flag should ever be flown over the Stars & Stripes on our home turf.

[BustedS13]

What, so it's wrong to be proud of your heritage? It's not even a racist thing. Yes, some people who fly those flags are racist, but not all.

Fuck off, crybabies.

ding ding

it's hoosier as fuck to put it on anything or fly the flag or whatever, but it's not the end of the world.

[boosted98gst]

Its getting warmer in ohio soon enough the kkk ralley's in front of small town court houses will be up

[kingkilburn]

I would love to see the FBI take them out like they did the Black Panthers.


Off topic but I'm just saying.

[mrmephistopheles]

MANY YEARS LATER EDIT: FUCK CONFEDERATE FLAGS AND THE TRAITORS THEY REPRESENT. There's no reason to perpetuate that nonsense.

Original post follows:


There's a reason I don't post much in LOUD NOISES, and this thread is one of them.

kingkilburn, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

You're equating 'Confederate flag' with 'Racist asshole'. That's an ignorant presumption! You're essentially saying that southern people (IE those who come from states that were part of the Confederacy) have NO RIGHT to celebrate their heritage?

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

In fact, in your way of thinking, we shouldn't even be permitted to fly the American flag, seeing as how a few hundred years ago we used to permit slavery.

An ignorant statement is untenable, and is maddening to argue against, simply because the person spouting is is typically incapable of understanding logic. I'm hoping that's not the case here, but I won't be surprised if it is.

Yes, the Confederacy did want to maintain slavery. Could that POSSIBLY be due to the fact that a majority of the GDP of the Confederacy was based on agriculture, which needed a very large labor force, and that instantly altering the costs of that labor force would crush the South's economy (which it did)?
Does that mean that your average Joe Kentucky wishes he had a few slaves to mow his grass and clean his gutters? I doubt it.

I think more than anything, you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Freedom of speech is one of our most important rights, and while it's not always pretty or enjoyable, it is a NECESSITY. It shouldn't matter what your viewpoint on a matter is, so long as it doesn't injure someone else, you should be permitted to share it. If that means flying a 150 year old flag for a 'country' which no longer exists, so be it. If it means tattooing swastikas on your forehead, go for it! Maybe you're buddhist, maybe you're a neo-nazi - it doesn't matter, your freedom of speech is what is important.

I'm not above being annoyed by stupid people's choices. Guys wearing baggy pants so low that they barely came to the bottom of his boxers look stupid and I want to slap their heads so hard their ballcaps spin around to the front. Bros with 'Monster', 'Fox', 'Tapout', 'No Fear', etc etc etc stickers on their trucks make me seethe with annoyance at their idiot affinity for brandnames.

At the end of the day, do I want to stop them from expressing themselves? NO.

I want the dude to pull up his pants so that there's no underwear showing (it's called underwear for a reason).
I want the Bro to stop being a brand-whore and advertising the shit he buys to the world.

Also, PROTIP - when attempting to associate a flag with racism, it's best not to wish to perform an act associated with said racism (burning a cross on their lawn).
That sort of thing is akin to saying 'I hate Illinois Nazis so much I want to put them into concentration camps and gas them to death!'.

Best to be like Jake Blues.
"I hate Illinois Nazis." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes)

[Mister.E]

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

truth, the Japanese kanji for the word temple is a "swastika"

[kingkilburn]

There's a reason I don't post much in LOUD NOISES, and this thread is one of them.

kingkilburn, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

You're equating 'Confederate flag' with 'Racist asshole'. That's an ignorant presumption! You're essentially saying that southern people (IE those who come from states that were part of the Confederacy) have NO RIGHT to celebrate their heritage?

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

In fact, in your way of thinking, we shouldn't even be permitted to fly the American flag, seeing as how a few hundred years ago we used to permit slavery.

An ignorant statement is untenable, and is maddening to argue against, simply because the person spouting is is typically incapable of understanding logic. I'm hoping that's not the case here, but I won't be surprised if it is.

Yes, the Confederacy did want to maintain slavery. Could that POSSIBLY be due to the fact that a majority of the GDP of the Confederacy was based on agriculture, which needed a very large labor force, and that instantly altering the costs of that labor force would crush the South's economy (which it did)?
Does that mean that your average Joe Kentucky wishes he had a few slaves to mow his grass and clean his gutters? I doubt it.

I think more than anything, you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Freedom of speech is one of our most important rights, and while it's not always pretty or enjoyable, it is a NECESSITY. It shouldn't matter what your viewpoint on a matter is, so long as it doesn't injure someone else, you should be permitted to share it. If that means flying a 150 year old flag for a 'country' which no longer exists, so be it. If it means tattooing swastikas on your forehead, go for it! Maybe you're buddhist, maybe you're a neo-nazi - it doesn't matter, your freedom of speech is what is important.

I'm not above being annoyed by stupid people's choices. Guys wearing baggy pants so low that they barely came to the bottom of his boxers look stupid and I want to slap their heads so hard their ballcaps spin around to the front. Bros with 'Monster', 'Fox', 'Tapout', 'No Fear', etc etc etc stickers on their trucks make me seethe with annoyance at their idiot affinity for brandnames.

At the end of the day, do I want to stop them from expressing themselves? NO.

I want the dude to pull up his pants so that there's no underwear showing (it's called underwear for a reason).
I want the Bro to stop being a brand-whore and advertising the shit he buys to the world.

Also, PROTIP - when attempting to associate a flag with racism, it's best not to wish to perform an act associated with said racism (burning a cross on their lawn).
That sort of thing is akin to saying 'I hate Illinois Nazis so much I want to put them into concentration camps and gas them to death!'.

Best to be like Jake Blues.
"I hate Illinois Nazis." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes)



Some of that I can accept and some I can not. You are putting a lot of words in my mouth.

I will say firstly that a swastika alone is fine, it is what is done with it that can make it bad. Swastikas have been around longer than the German language.

Secondly, what exactly is the heritage of the flag? It is a symbol, not of a country who had slavery but of one who sent its sons to die to keep it. Even when it was no longer necessary economically. Since that time had has been used as a purely a symbol of the south, but that fell out of favor in the early days of WW2.

After that it was used as a rallying point for southern Dixie-crats to be "rebels" while remaining inside the government. The only thing this has caused is more racism and bigotry than before. This showed it's ugly face in Mississippi not ratifying the 13th amendment until 1995.

After this time period the only thing I can find that is positively associated with a Confederate flag is the General Lee.


Now, you tell me how I am supposed to feel. As for Mr. Joe Kentucky there is a very rich history and heritage outside of southern succession. Why would you boil your own heritage down to the one moment of major defeat as a state or even a region?


As for your protip, that is EXACTLY what I want. Lets see if any one empathizes with those poor neo-nazis after they die in gas chambers.

[ryguy]

OP, relax. Just sit back and try to realize that the Civil War was not about slavery. That should help you realize what the flag means to some people. That doesn't mean its not sometimes a racist thing, but in my experience most times it's not.


it's hoosier as fuck to put it on anything or fly the flag or whatever, but it's not the end of the world.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

[Matej]

This thread reminds of that episode of South Park, where people are interviewed about an offensive flag. "I think it is history, I think it is racist."


Personally, flying any kind of a flag or displaying something so everyone has to see what group I belong to/pride/how different I am is tacky to me. For example, I am European, and while I really love Europe and embrace my heritage, I have never felt the need to go around shoving my home country's flag in everyone's face. It just does not seem very polite to me.
At the same time, I do not really take offense to any such minor nonsense, people can fly whatever flag they want for all I care. In the end, it just says, "Hey, look at how much of an attention-craving weenie I am," so the joke is on them, and they do not even realize it.

[kingkilburn]

OP, relax. Just sit back and try to realize that the Civil War was not about slavery. That should help you realize what the flag means to some people. That doesn't mean its not sometimes a racist thing, but in my experience most times it's not.



What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

The flag has little to nothing to do with the Civil war in this modern context. It has more to do with the Dixie-crats and rednecks showing there ass than a war fought by some of our great great great great grand fathers.

The Civil war was about state's rights and economic freedom. What rights to protect their economic freedom do you think they(the leaders, not soldiers) were fighting for?

[ronmcdon]

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.


actually the Nazi swatika & the Buddhist arent the same.
the direction of the forks are different.

otherwise I agree with you completely there.

to the OP's credit though,
(if indeed he does live in Fresno, CA)
that part of CA does earn it's notoriety somewhat in being popular with white supremacy types.
The flag is probably an easy target for his resentment.

Under those particular circumstances,
I'd probably be a bit frustrated.
However I would also respect freedom of speech.
And yes, I'm inclined to believe it's not always meant to express racism.

Back to history though,
yeah I certainly agree the Union's intentions weren't always exactly noble.
but that's another HUGE can of worms.

This thread reminds of that episode of South Park, where people are interviewed about an offensive flag. "I think it is history, I think it is racist."


Personally, flying any kind of a flag or displaying something so everyone has to see what group I belong to/pride/how different I am is tacky to me. For example, I am European, and while I really love Europe and embrace my heritage, I have never felt the need to go around shoving my home country's flag in everyone's face. It just does not seem very polite to me.
At the same time, I do not really take offense to any such minor nonsense, people can fly whatever flag they want for all I care. In the end, it just says, "Hey, look at how much of an attention-craving weenie I am," so the joke is on them, and they do not even realize it.

Lol, well said!
My sentiments exactly.
Bar the US flag, I just see the flag waving as more funny than offensive though.
(as if our conviction to our nation and/or state is compromised otherwise, lol)

[mrmephistopheles]

MANY YEARS LATER EDIT: FUCK CONFEDERATE FLAGS AND THE TRAITORS THEY REPRESENT. There's no reason to perpetuate that nonsense.

Original post follows:


Secondly, what exactly is the heritage of the flag? It is a symbol, not of a country who had slavery but of one who sent its sons to die to keep it.

After this time period the only thing I can find that is positively associated with a Confederate flag is the General Lee.

Now, you tell me how I am supposed to feel. As for Mr. Joe Kentucky there is a very rich history and heritage outside of southern succession. Why would you boil your own heritage down to the one moment of major defeat as a state or even a region?


As for your protip, that is EXACTLY what I want. Lets see if any one empathizes with those poor neo-nazis after they die in gas chambers.

I'm going to try to keep this brief, as internet discussions about stupid things isn't high on my priority list.

The heritage of the flag is exactly what you said it is - a symbol of a country. Should Texans be ostracized for having pride in their 'Republic of Texas'?

As far as the only positive association you've found for it is the use in Dukes of Hazzard on the General Lee... way to completely not capture the point. It's a show about Southern boys living in the South getting into trouble. Having a Confederate flag on their roof didn't make them racist ANY MORE than Joe Kentucky having it on the bumper of his truck.

Any perception that Confederate flag = racism is pure speculation on your own part. Furthermore, if a person who takes pride in the Confederate flag happens to be racist, it's not BECAUSE he's taking pride in the Confederate flag, it's because he's retarded.

You see, correlation does not imply causation. That is, the mere presence of a confederate flag doesn't not mean the person is racist any more than the presence of a pedobear sticker meaning a person is a pedophile.

Now for your rebuttal to my protip - thank you for conceding the point via sheer ignorance. What you're telling us is that you want to be able to permitted to do horrible things to horrible people. Tell me, does that solve the problem via the high road, or is that debasing one's self to the terrible behavior of the people who've provoked your ire?

Sure, the Nazis did terrible things to people, but what does it make us if we were to do those terrible things right back to them? This isn't ancient Babylon 3800 years ago - eye for an eye isn't really appropriate anymore.




What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

He's saying it's a bumpkin sort of thing to do.

actually the Nazi swatika & the Buddhist arent the same.
the direction of the forks are different.

otherwise I agree with you completely there.


Buddhism isn't the only religion which utilizes the swastika as a symbol.

[kingkilburn]

I'm going to try to keep this brief, as internet discussions about stupid things isn't high on my priority list.

The heritage of the flag is exactly what you said it is - a symbol of a country. Should Texans be ostracized for having pride in their 'Republic of Texas'?

As far as the only positive association you've found for it is the use in Dukes of Hazzard on the General Lee... way to completely not capture the point. It's a show about Southern boys living in the South getting into trouble. Having a Confederate flag on their roof didn't make them racist ANY MORE than Joe Kentucky having it on the bumper of his truck.

Any perception that Confederate flag = racism is pure speculation on your own part. Furthermore, if a person who takes pride in the Confederate flag happens to be racist, it's not BECAUSE he's taking pride in the Confederate flag, it's because he's retarded.

You see, correlation does not imply causation. That is, the mere presence of a confederate flag doesn't not mean the person is racist any more than the presence of a pedobear sticker meaning a person is a pedophile.

Now for your rebuttal to my protip - thank you for conceding the point via sheer ignorance. What you're telling us is that you want to be able to permitted to do horrible things to horrible people. Tell me, does that solve the problem via the high road, or is that debasing one's self to the terrible behavior of the people who've provoked your ire?

Sure, the Nazis did terrible things to people, but what does it make us if we were to do those terrible things right back to them? This isn't ancient Babylon 3800 years ago - eye for an eye isn't really appropriate anymore.





He's saying it's a bumpkin sort of thing to do.

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations that I am aware of and further more it was never a banner for the spread of hate and refusal of rights.

There is no speculation on my part. I speak from my own experiences.

The difference between the flag and pedobear is that pedobear is meant as a joke generally. I personally would be suspicious either way.

The gas chamber comment was meant as an example. Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber? I'm not asking if it would be wrong or saying that those who did it shouldn't be punished.

[ESmorz]

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations

When the Republic of Texas was founded officially they stripped all of the free African Americans of their rights as citizens and were "deported" or thrown into slavery. Texans were fuckers too, but if someone wants to fly their Lonestar flag all the power to them. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to me.

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.

Just let it go.

[MandTPhotography]

I live in southern NC, so I see this shit all the time.

If you fly the flag in most neighborhoods, they will make you take it down.

90% of people here fly it on their straight piped trucks just to celebrate redneckism.

[Matej]

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.
Man, those are so terrible, I cannot stand them.
Not because I care about who killed who or what is offensive, they are just awfully cheesy.

Wonder if Native Americans get offended by the US flag.

[ESmorz]

Man, those are so terrible, I cannot stand them.
Not because I care about who killed who or what is offensive, they are just awfully cheesy.

Indeed they are.

It's a piece of cloth or vinyl. Unless it becomes something more than that, then it is what it is. Freedom of Speech lends this to be a case by case problem. If you are flying the Feddy colors and are heading a lynch mob, then it's a problem and it should be dealt with accordingly. If it's just a stupid redneck who has fake balls on their truck, and a stupid flag who really gives a flying fuck?

ibthesouthshouldjustbewalledoff

SHNmn5lzaCY

[mrmephistopheles]

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations that I am aware of and further more it was never a banner for the spread of hate and refusal of rights.

There is no speculation on my part. I speak from my own experiences.

The difference between the flag and pedobear is that pedobear is meant as a joke generally. I personally would be suspicious either way.

The gas chamber comment was meant as an example. Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber? I'm not asking if it would be wrong or saying that those who did it shouldn't be punished.

...and it's at this point that I bow out of this thread.

Thank you for failing to grasp many of the points I've presented. I feel vindicated in my initial assessment of your intellect.



I've found another opponent that has a better capacity for rational thought and application of logic:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8642/brickwallp.jpg

[SR240DET]

only 2-6% of southerns were wealthy enough to even own/need slaves during that time. Tell me why 94-98% of the rest of the confederate soldiers (including free black men) would fight a war, raise a flag, and support an institution that did them no good, nor were they able to afford? The flag doesn't represent hate, it represents the fight against the national government taking away from state rights.

[DxZoo]

truth, the Japanese kanji for the word temple is a "swastika"

this is untrue, the symbol isnt kanji, its Sanskrit. The direction of the points are also the opposite direction of a swastika and its angled different. However it is a common symbol for buddhist temples in japan. It is funny when you're looking at a jap car navi and at first glance makes it seem like theres nazi encampments everywhere lol.

[Agamemnon]

Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber?
Absolutely!
What kind of question is that?!
Last time I checked, Neo-Nazis are protected by the bill of rights in this country. Just because they dont have the same beliefs as you do, doesn't mean you can strip their rights away.
Just remember, in America you dont have the right to be offended.

[revat619]

Kevin, while i do agree with you, i will say this, I've lived in east county San Diego for the last 10 years and every, yes EVERY, person i've come across that's flown that flag in one way or another has indeed been a racist. This was apparent by either their words/actions directed at me or my observations of their words/actions toward another.

It's one thing to be proud of your "heritage" (which when displayed in SoCal is debatable in itself) but if john c. dumb ass was born and raised in santee/el cajon/ramona/alpine/fallbrook/hemet (i say these cities because this is by far where its seen the most and coincidentally the most racist cities in SD county. minus hemet) and he's got these flags all over the place and his actions toward non whites is questionable at best, i have a hard time believing he's flying that flag for reasons other than its association to slavery (i.e. white supremacy)

Is that to say that EVERYONE in America who chooses to fly this flag is racist? No. BUT, given my personal history with such individuals, it does raise my suspicions when i see it.

Kevin edit: While it sucks that you've experienced what you have, this is a good reason for stereotypes to exist. Racist idiots tend to do things similarly (including brandishing the Conf. flag), so the sight of one leading you to suspect a racist isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's a stereotype you've learned and have had enforced. Also, I recall Santee being referred to as Klantee more than once while we lived in San Diego.

[VNG704]

The buddhist swastica-like symbol is different. It is drawn in the opposite direction. Not the same thing.

The confederate flag isn't the flag for racism but the idea of racism is attached to the flag. Lived in NC for 10+ yrs, I care very little what flag someone has, but you guys can't tell me that if you was one in that group of people and your ancestors didn't want to abolish slavery, you'd honor their flag? Yea, it's not all about slavery, just some of it so it's okay. Right... :shifty: But this is america, it's legal.

Related question: At work, where race harrassment is not tollerated, would a confederate flag be okay?

[kingkilburn]

Let me make this VERY CLEAR.

This is your heritage:
http://www.leverguns.com/desktop/Stars_and_Bars-1862.jpg

This is racism:
http://a.abcnews.com/images/TheLaw/ht_kkk_070726_ms.jpg



You are arguing based on either a lie or your own ignorance. The flag of the Army of Tennessee hasn't been used for much good since WW2 and seldom before that.

I really don't understand how the banner flown to oppose civil rights can be used for any type of good.

[spooled240]

I think those racist/nazi guys just use that flag because of the slavery issue at the time..i mean come on, how can you put a swastika and a confederate flag on the same banner? Hitler committed huge crimes of genocide and killed americans during WWII, the south during the civil war wanted to keep slavery for economic reasons(slavery is what brought this country up from a 3rd world country btw) Slavery although thought of as a crazy ass idea nowadays was the norm over 200 years ago.

I personally don't care, I think it's great to show pride for you heritage but I also think that the confederate flag is misinterpreted and flown not only for heritage pride obviously w/ the KKK/racists. One of my buddies has some confederate flag things like belt buckles and whatnot and he's cool as fuck, not racist.

[BustedS13]

hey, remember how this country used to have like eleventy billion "injuns"
good thing we took care of that, fly the American flag proudly boys

BUT NOT THE STINKY REBEL FLAG

[spooled240]

^ i was just gonna say that, america in general has had a pretty rough past, kickin out all the indians or killing them if they didn't..this country was pretty damn racist in the beginning lol

[BustedS13]

^ still is. ever seen a tea party rally?

[HalveBlue]

This thread begs the question, what exactly is this Southern heritage that it supposedly embodied by the flag of the Army of Tennessee?

In my personal opinion, every individual has the right to fly whatever flag they feel like.

However, the Southern Cross refers to an act of sedition. An act that cost the lives of over half-a-million Americans, the deadliest war in American history.

As such I cannot for the life of me understand why that flag is incorporated in many state flags. Or, as in the case of South Carolina, why the flag is being flown over the state capitol.

It's basically nothing more than a big "Fuck You" to the United States of America.

Also, as far as the swastika is concerned, the symbol has been found all over the world. It's prominently featured in Hindu, Buddhist, Norse, and Native American cultures.

In fact, until the 1930's, the US Army's 45th Infantry Division's unit patch looked like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/USA_-_45_INF_DIV_Swastika.png

The patch was changed after the NSDAP seized power in Germany and usurped the swastika.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

[Matej]

Swastikas are offensive in the western world, unless in context with cultural symbolism/history.
Does not matter what they mean in Japanese/Buddhism/whatever.

It is what people make offensive. Most offensive symbols/gestures/words started as non-offensive. Arguing that they are not offensive because they are not offensive in another culture or that they used to not be offensive is pointless.

If you go to certain countries and show people a thumbs up, you will possibly get beat up. Have fun explaining to them that in some country somewhere it is not offensive.


I personally am not offended by swastikas or the the rebel flag or anything, I am just saying, be careful. Lots of people love to get offended.

[HyperTek]

to the OP, theres alot of BS out there, even on this forum, the views can sometimes appear single sided, you just gotta ignore it dude, dont let it get to you because it can drive you crazy. From the stereotypical redneck stuff ive seen from those southern states on the net, sometimes Im glad i dont live out there or have any business, id probably go insane.

[Agamemnon]

However, the Southern Cross refers to an act of sedition. An act that cost the lives of over half-a-million Americans, the deadliest war in American history.
I think the anwser is found within this statement. Many Americans died for what that flag represented. They died for the lands that "raised" them. Some people see the Southern Cross as a symbol of their sacrifice. To scorn such a symbol is considered by many southerners blasphemy and it spits in the eyes of those who gave their lives for the south.

[XnTroubleX]

Before someone gets pissed off by the flag, they need to take the time to read and research the history behind the flag.

""The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment.
The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861.

Its usually those who havent taken the time to do so are the ones who are offended by the flag.

How about the Obama shirts that have racially intended statements plastered on them. I get pissed everytime I see a worthless, crack whore or crack dealer wearing one. If that person wants change so bad, They should change themselves and get a effin job and stop waiting on reparations that they feel they deserve. If these people want change so bad why dont they change and start collecting a paycheck instead of a effin welfare check!!

[Csomme]

^ still is. ever seen a tea party rally?

I've been to 3 of them, including one in DC. Never seen any racist happenings there buddy. In fact, in DC we hung out with a younger black couple most of the weekend.

All my friends who raise the Confed. flag are somewhat racist, just like every other person on the planet, but for them it mainly means they are proud to be born and raised in the South, and the thought of a time/want of a time with less government. THAT was also a deciding factor in the Civil war. Really surprised no one has brought that up yet.

[kingkilburn]

Would it not be better to honor the memory of the Confederacy with the flag they chose to represent themselves and not the flag of the Army of Tennessee?

http://unitedstatesamericanflags.com/images/stars_and_bars_800x600.gif

If you want to represent state's rights why not use a flag that represents the success of that endeavor?
Gadsden Flag

http://countrypatriots.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/gadsden.jpg

Or if you want to represent the south at the same time you could use the flag of the Culpeper Minute men.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Culpeper_flag.png

[Siphter]

http://www.jessejoyce.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/black_confederates.jpg

I see no problem with it, why would anyone care? besides white pride forum avatars and seeing a few white people display a sticker of said flag have you seen such a person perform a racist act while displaying said flag? curb stomping? cross burning? eat small brown children while wrapped in a rebel loincloth? it's just fabric.

[theicecreamdan]

I'm proud to be American, there are things in our history that are not something to be proud of. The ideals of "the south" as represented by the rebel flag are nothing to be proud of IMO.

I can appreciate standing up against something. But I think the using the confederate flag as your symbol blows any credibility out of the water.

Have your free speech, but I'm going to put anybody with a confederate flag into the dipshit category until they prove they are worthy of anything else.

[jspeedm]

do you guys realize that

90% of the people that display that flag don't know what it means
90% of people who have tribal tatoos don't know what they mean
90% of people who have a tatoo that says "power" in an aisan language, don't
know that it says "dick"
90% of statistics are made up

The fact is that most poeple display it because they saw it on a car and thought it was cool, and have no idea what it means. which in my mind is just stupid.

The only thing that pisses me off is the order of the flags.

THE AMERICAN FLAG IS ALWAYS THE HIGHEST!!!!

But remember, without all the other flags that have been flown over this soil throughout history, the american flag wouldn't mean what it does.

[FaLKoN240]

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.


This used to drive my half Japanese ex-gf crazy when she'd see it at carshows or on cars in general. Especially if the person wasn't Japanese, and had no idea what it meant.

It represents imperialist Japan and they did a lot of fucked up shit. I'm sure if you saw a Japanese homie in Japan repping that flag some Japanese people would be pretty offended.

Repping it on an American car is the same thing, without knowing what it means to some people and just rocking it because it "looks cool" still makes you:

IGNORANT.

To fly a flag without knowing what it means, or failure to acknowledge that it is offensive to people is ignorant as well.

[boosted98gst]

This used to drive my half Japanese ex-gf crazy when she'd see it at carshows or on cars in general. Especially if the person wasn't Japanese, and had no idea what it meant.

It represents imperialist Japan and they did a lot of fucked up shit. I'm sure if you saw a Japanese homie in Japan repping that flag some Japanese people would be pretty offended.

Repping it on an American car is the same thing, without knowing what it means to some people and just rocking it because it "looks cool" still makes you:

IGNORANT.

To fly a flag without knowing what it means, or failure to acknowledge that it is offensive to people is ignorant as well.


We fly imperial flags and japanese flags all the time at my home in japan.

[BustedS13]

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.

Just let it go.

wish i was premie so i could fit this quote in my sig.

[TNathe]

...............

[kingkilburn]

I don't know how I missed ESmorz post but I feel the same about that as I do the flag in question.

Why would you choose that of all symbols to represent yourself?

[BustedS13]

related to the rising sun comment

aby2Twmf3Tg