mexican immigration thread

[BustedS13]

i totally don't give a shit, they can all come over if they want.

[DataXUnknown]

Are you talking about ILLEGAL or LEGAL immigration?

Legal, yeah they can all come over too I don't mind.

Illegal however, I would shoot every single one that tried. Taking advatage of all our shit costing the taxpayers millions

[BustedS13]

plenty of stupid things cost taxpayers millions, but mexicans seem to be the only one everyone would like to murder.
really don't see why somebody looking for freedom and opportunity should be murdered.

[ronmcdon]

idk who the hell would want to come over,
esp with the economy in the shitter these days.

well maybe texas aint so bad.
unemployment was like 12.6% last i read.

[DataXUnknown]

Well I agree, there are plenty of stupid things that cost taxpayers millions. There are debates for those as well, this is specifically a debate on mexican immigration. Someone looking for freedom and opportunity, sneaking and getting free shit while others have to pay is not freedom and opportunity.

If a sandwich shop gave out free sandwiches to those whom are mexican, and you had to pay for one (not being of mexican decent) wouldn't you be pretty ticked off? Just because they are looking for freedom and opportunity doesn't mean they should get free healthcare and social security and drivers licenses and all that financial aiding.

Whatever happened to equality?

[dOMEmE]

Are you talking about ILLEGAL or LEGAL immigration?

Legal, yeah they can all come over too I don't mind.

Illegal however, I would shoot every single one that tried. Taking advatage of all our shit costing the taxpayers millions


......ever poked your head in the drive thrue window of your favorite fast food spot? well odds are there ILLEGAL immigrants making your food...people stocking food at supermarkets, yup them too....they all work with illegal papers but make no doubt about it they also pay taxes...so i guess you can say there paying double taxes right? they probably work harder than you and make less...all they want is to make a living to support there family...if you have any mexican friends go and shoot there parents then! odds are there parents are hella illegal.

[dOMEmE]

trust me RONMCDON its shittier over there.

[BustedS13]

what are all these free things illegal immigrants are getting?

[dOMEmE]

what are all these free things illegal immigrants are getting?

haha! yea i want to know too.....reperations???

[DataXUnknown]

......ever poked your head in the drive thrue window of your favorite fast food spot? well odds are there ILLEGAL immigrants making your food...people stocking food at supermarkets, yup them too....they all work with illegal papers but make no doubt about it they also pay taxes...so i guess you can say there paying double taxes right? they probably work harder than you and make less...all they want is to make a living to support there family...if you have any mexican friends go and shoot there parents then! odds are there parents are hella illegal.

Just to make this clear I'm not going to shoot anyone, I was just useing that term to get a point across.

A lot of the illegal immigrants do not pay taxes at all though, and thats what makes people very angry.

Working harder than me? I've worked in a warehouse in Santa Ana, CA where 90% of the workers there were of mexican decent, and I'm sure almost all of them were illegal. I worked just as much as the hardest mexican working there (100+ hours for 2 weeks).

I'm sure I have some friends parents that are illegal, or their grandparents

[PinkPanther]

food and shelter in our jails, courtesy of you and me.

[BustedS13]

food and shelter in our jails, courtesy of you and me.

there are quite a few people in jail for no reason that i do not care to pay for. people in jail for simple possession/use of marijuana come to mind. i'd wager there are more people serving time for marijuana-related "crimes" than illegal immigrants in jail.

[dOMEmE]

food and shelter in our jails, courtesy of you and me.


you do know that the prison population is like 60% black right? then mexican then white...and the other % is "other"...

and shelter!? wtf...like 20 people live under one roof in a mexican household...shelter here in LA is mostly for black people and the cracked out white people...SKIDROW in la, you should visit it sometime...

[PinkPanther]

there are quite a few people in jail for no reason that i do not care to pay for. people in jail for simple possession/use of marijuana come to mind. i'd wager there are more people serving time for marijuana-related "crimes" than illegal immigrants in jail.
Agreed. Maybe we need to stop buying so many goods from China and have them produced in jails.

[dOMEmE]

Just to make this clear I'm not going to shoot anyone, I was just useing that term to get a point across.

A lot of the illegal immigrants do not pay taxes at all though, and thats what makes people very angry.

Working harder than me? I've worked in a warehouse in Santa Ana, CA where 90% of the workers there were of mexican decent, and I'm sure almost all of them were illegal. I worked just as much as the hardest mexican working there (100+ hours for 2 weeks).

I'm sure I have some friends parents that are illegal, or their grandparents

i did say probably, im a warehouse worker too......and honestly i doubt its alot of immigrants that dont pay taxes....most of them got smart and got fake papers to work and pay taxes to get there tax returns....

[cc4usmc]

Whatever happened to equality?

It was never supposed to be about equality of things, just rights. Everyone has equal right to get what everyone else has, they've just got to work for it. That goes for people of all colors, races etc. Supporting people who needed help was never meant to go higher then it needed, but we can all see how that has turned out.

[Killa_D]

i did say probably, im a warehouse worker too......and honestly i doubt its alot of immigrants that dont pay taxes....most of them got smart and got fake papers to work and pay taxes to get there tax returns....
Even then most illegals don't even do tax returns so ever wonder where all that money goes? Why do you think the government doesn't give a shit about illegal people? Do you seriously think the government doesn't know where illegal people work/live? hell yeah they do they just benefit way to much. What happens when an illegal gets into trouble you may ask, (crimes, DUI, and other shit) their asses get sent back to where ever they come from. Most people are just way too ignorant and don't know better.

[spooled240]

I understand they are just seeking a better life but I think they should at least pay taxes like everyone else since they enjoy all the benefits of the welfare system, food stamps, etc. especially since america is going bankrupt lol

then again there's a lot of lazy ass americans and their welfare fraud...at least a lot of the illegal immigrants are hard workers.

[RB24_S14]

Everyone is a immigrant if you think about it. It doesnt matter who moves here or in any other place, aslong as they respect the laws of the countries they immigrate to. Every race has crimminals, the poorer their surroundings are then the more chances they have to become crimials.

[dOMEmE]

Even then most illegals don't even do tax returns so ever wonder where all that money goes? Why do you think the government doesn't give a shit about illegal people? Do you seriously think the government doesn't know where illegal people work/live? hell yeah they do they just benefit way to much. What happens when an illegal gets into trouble you may ask, (crimes, DUI, and other shit) their asses get sent back to where ever they come from. Most people are just way too ignorant and don't know better.

i bet you a hundreed bucks that legal people do more crimes than illegal people.....

[PinkPanther]

LOL them being here illegally is a felony within itself. But youre right

[JayDee M Rolly]

i would like to trade the ones that where born here and raised corrupt to the ones that want a good life and do good.

[Touge Noob S13]

trust me RONMCDON its shittier over there.


Its shitty over there if you are poor. Otherwise if you have money you live a life similer or better than the US....

[RB24_S14]

i bet you a hundreed bucks that legal people do more crimes than illegal people.....

I agree because Illegal people are careful and they do not want to get deported.

[PinkPanther]

Its shitty over there if you are poor. Otherwise if you have money you live a life similer or better than the US....
Untill you are kidnapped and murdered.

[dOMEmE]

Its shitty over there if you are poor. Otherwise if you have money you live a life similer or better than the US....

92% of mexico is poor......

Untill you are kidnapped and murdered.

and yes you are right on this one...lol..tourist get there ass kidnapped and they dont live there, imagine how scared the rich natives are. if i was rich in another country i would not live in fear everyday of my life,ill just move my happy rich ass to the US...and by doing that its making there country of origin even poorer...

[dOMEmE]

LOL them being here illegally is a felony within itself. But youre right


LOL..true on that..but you got what i ment...

[RB24_S14]

LOL them being here illegally is a felony within itself. But youre right

Thats what I mean. If they come here then the best way is to legally. But if life in their country becomes too hard then I understand. I dont mind Illegal people because I know most come here for a better life. Just like every single one of your ancestors did. USA is made from immigration.

[BustedS13]

Thats what I mean. If they come here then the best way is to legally. But if life in their country becomes too hard then I understand. I dont mind Illegal people because I know most come here for a better life. Just like every single one of your ancestors did. USA is made from immigration.

correctomundo

that's the extent of my spanish, but i'll probably learn more in my lifetime. it's a pretty hot language honestly.

[RB24_S14]

92% of mexico is poor......



and yes you are right on this one...lol..tourist get there ass kidnapped and they dont live there, imagine how scared the rich natives are. if i was rich in another country i would not live in fear everyday of my life,ill just move my happy rich ass to the US...and by doing that its making there country of origin even poorer...


lol. Trust me it isnt that way. Im Ecuadorian and I lived there for 8 years and the people are wayyyyy nicer then here. They respect you and they wont kidnap you unless you wave a big stack of $100 bills at them and flick them off..lol. Seriously.

[dOMEmE]

lol. Trust me it isnt that way. Im Ecuadorian and I lived there for 8 years and the people are wayyyyy nicer then here. They respect you and they wont kidnap you unless you wave a big stack of $100 bills at them and flick them off..lol. Seriously.


eh eh buddy...all depends on location....thats like comparing downtown LA to some sub-urban city (dont know any off the top of my head) , but ya

[amdnivram]

i think your just focusing on the small groups or exceptions because i have no idea what free stuff your talking about. I do see alot of them selling stuff on freeway exits and getting arrested/ getting all their stuff taken away for trying to make a living. Now if your using small examples that are messing up then you can also point out other things that waste the governments money. THere are other groups of illegal immigrants that can also be pointed out. I cant think of anything that is exclusively free to immigrants that isnt to others.

[SR240DET]

I think my only complaint with any illegal immigrant is when they drive. You get hit by one and that is it. All you can really do is lay them out before the cops get there.

[dOMEmE]

I think my only complaint with any illegal immigrant is when they drive. You get hit by one and that is it. All you can really do is lay them out before the cops get there.

lol....well your still gunna get payed, just not in the short time it takes thru insurance but it will happen.

[Touge Noob S13]

Untill you are kidnapped and murdered.

Watched Man on Fire too many times I see.
92% of mexico is poor......

and yes you are right on this one...lol..tourist get there ass kidnapped and they dont live there, imagine how scared the rich natives are. if i was rich in another country i would not live in fear everyday of my life,ill just move my happy rich ass to the US...and by doing that its making there country of origin even poorer...


Just reading that tells me you don't know a thing about Mexico.

[Matej]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

By the way, not saying all Mexicans are like that, and that Mexico is crappy, because there are really awesome parts of Mexico. It's just that most of the Mexicans who immigrate here tend to come from the crappy parts, and give all of Mexico a poor image.

[dOMEmE]

Just reading that tells me you don't know a thing about Mexico.

and how or why is that? and i was refering to other countries as well.

[cc4usmc]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

No trolling on this thread? jk

I agree.

[dOMEmE]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

its not like NOT learning the language is them wanting to be like the place they left...they didnt come over to learn a new language,they could have learned english over there, they came to work and live better than where they came from...

[Touge Noob S13]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

By the way, not saying all Mexicans are like that, and that Mexico is crappy, because there are really awesome parts of Mexico. It's just that most of the Mexicans who immigrate here tend to come from the crappy parts, and give all of Mexico a poor image.

+1111111 If only more people would think like you.

and how or why is that? and i was refering to other countries as well.

You say that rich people from Mexico and other countries should just come here because they live in fear. How can you prove this?

[cc4usmc]

they didnt come over to learn a new language

It's all a part of the assimilation process. If you want to become a productive member of a society and take advantage of everything it has to offer, you should at least have to decency to learn the language. How far do you think a non-English speaking immigrant is going to get? They might get out of Mexico, but they're only going to end up in the ghetto in the States.

[ronmcdon]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

By the way, not saying all Mexicans are like that, and that Mexico is crappy, because there are really awesome parts of Mexico. It's just that most of the Mexicans who immigrate here tend to come from the crappy parts, and give all of Mexico a poor image.

Waving the flag, I guess it's more about being proud of heritage.
I REALLY doubt they are proud with the way their country's political & economic sphere
(otherwise, chances are they wouldn't even be here).

I'll agree with you on those immigrants who don't make an effort to assimilate.
(legal or illegal, doesn't matter where from).
At least have the common courtesy and respect for your new home.
Then again, our government has to share some degree of responsibility.
It's not difficult to get by without speaking English,
and technically there is no official language in the US.

Idk if it would be fair to say that most who immigrate come from the crappy parts.
Perhaps more rural, but I would be hesistant to call it crap.
I can see how some Americans would be annoyed by the paisa culture.

[amdnivram]

It's all a part of the assimilation process. If you want to become a productive member of a society and take advantage of everything it has to offer, you should at least have to decency to learn the language. How far do you think a non-English speaking immigrant is going to get? They might get out of Mexico, but they're only going to end up in the ghetto in the States.
im going to disagree with you there, my friends parents are both illegal immigrants and they own a +500k house in a good neighborhood. They may not be the norm, but it shows you that language and assimilating aren't necessarily the only variables to success.

[ronmcdon]

its not like NOT learning the language is them wanting to be like the place they left...they didnt come over to learn a new language,they could have learned english over there, they came to work and live better than where they came from...

Well if you really came over here with the sole intention to 'live better' & get work,
it really makes no sense at all not to learn the English language.

[cc4usmc]

----



I was going to respond to your post, #42, where you attempted to defend immigrants not having to learn English, only to see your next post where you make a comment in the opposite direction. I don't respond to in-betweens.



im going to disagree with you there, my friends parents are both illegal immigrants and they own a +500k house in a good neighborhood. They may not be the norm, but it shows you that language and assimilating aren't necessarily the only variables to success.

Care to tell us how your parents managed to such success? It really does no good to post circumstances not of the norm, because the norm is the problem. If it was the other way around, and most illegal immigrants were like your parents, then there wouldn't be a problem. Or, at least this problem.

[dOMEmE]

+1111111 If only more people would think like you.



You say that rich people from Mexico and other countries should just come here because they live in fear. How can you prove this?


i cant prove it, but heres some videos that can help me prove my point...found like hundreds of these....over in mexico gangs dont sell drugs and act all big and bad in the streets like here... over there there main goal isnt how many 7/11's they can rob its how many people with money they can kidnapp to make make money them selves...

there in spanish so you probably wont get it..lol

YouTube - Silvia Vargas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAe59VFprI&feature=related)

Daughter of famous sport person ^^^

YouTube - Caen secuestradores en Estado de México (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V70Fm1MrNB4)

YouTube - SECUESTRADORES DE EDOMEX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96moXuHm5pU&feature=related)





It's all a part of the assimilation process. If you want to become a productive member of a society and take advantage of everything it has to offer, you should at least have to decency to learn the language. How far do you think a non-English speaking immigrant is going to get? They might get out of Mexico, but they're only going to end up in the ghetto in the States.

i get what your getting at but what im trying to say is that thats not there MAIN reason to come...but yea no doubt they should learn it.

[cc4usmc]

i get what your getting at but what im trying to say is that thats not there MAIN reason to come...but yea no doubt they should learn it.

Ok, I want to start at the top. So, tell me what you think their main reason is for coming.

[ronmcdon]

I was going to respond to your post, #42, where you attempted to defend immigrants not having to learn English, only to see your next post where you make a comment in the opposite direction. I don't respond to in-betweens.


I never did defend immigrants not having to learn English.
Only stated why it's easy to get away with it.

[cc4usmc]

I never did defend immigrants not having to learn English.
Only stated why it's easy to get away with it.

Sorry, I read this


and technically there is no official language in the US.

and thought... "Well, anyone who steps out of their home knows that an overwhelming majority of things are done in English."

The reason why English hasn't been officially made the official language is because someone would complain that it's not politically correct to designate an "official" language in a country with so many non-English speaking people.

But I'm not an expert in official language business at all, so that's just my opinion.

Then again...there was a Coke commercial at the movies about a month ago that was 100% Spanish, so who knows.

[dOMEmE]

Ok, I want to start at the top. So, tell me what you think their main reason is for coming.

there main reason is to work to provide food and shelter for there families and in general live a better life than they did in their country, and dont tell me that they NEED to learn english to live here and get a job and blah blah......im not saying they shouldnt though, im just saying its not the main reason they came over.

[OptionZero]

The end solution is for Mexico to become a country that one would want to live in.

You can't do that when your own country (USA) is hurting.

One of the things that hurts is illegal immigration - flooding the job market with cheap labor, uninsured drivers, more students that need schools, etc.

There is no way to win without pain.

The most practical solution is to stop all illegal immigration, hell limit immigration even legally, stop blowing money on illegal immigrants. Reinvest all the resources into education our own, legal population and putting the unemployed into work.

When our kids can spell again and the economy picks up and we pay off a little bit of debt even, then we go out and help mexico become less corrupt, improve the health of its cities, build infrastructure, restore faith in the government, and generally become someplace you'd want to stay. Healthy neighbors is a good goal in the big picture.

This is will never happen because:

1) it is not politically expedient
2) lots of current immigrants would be hurt (related to #1)
3) it presumes our education systems and bureaucracy can be fixed at all
4) even if USA can be improved, it won't happen soon (related to all of the above)

Instead, we'll probably mortage our future by borrowing money and making poor short term spending decisions to try and fix all the problems (more freebies to everyone) and end up doing nothing but fucking up the future and the present more.


we could just put a few smart people in charge, fuck democracy, and get shit done
but that also presumes there are smart people out there, that we can find them, and that those smart people are also trustworthy

which is alot of presumptions

in otherwords

no win

[Touge Noob S13]

i cant prove it, but heres some videos that can help me prove my point...found like hundreds of these....over in mexico gangs dont sell drugs and act all big and bad in the streets like here... over there there main goal isnt how many 7/11's they can rob its how many people with money they can kidnapp to make make money them selves...

there in spanish so you probably wont get it..lol
YouTube - Silvia Vargas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAe59VFprI&feature=related)
Daughter of famous sport person ^^^
YouTube - Caen secuestradores en Estado de México (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V70Fm1MrNB4)
YouTube - SECUESTRADORES DE EDOMEX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96moXuHm5pU&feature=related) i get what your getting at but what im trying to say is that thats not there MAIN reason to come...but yea no doubt they should learn it.

Facepalm// I too am Mexican. I can speak, read, and write in Spanish probrably better than you.

[dOMEmE]

The end solution is for Mexico to become a country that one would want to live in.

You can't do that when your own country (USA) is hurting.

One of the things that hurts is illegal immigration - flooding the job market with cheap labor, uninsured drivers, more students that need schools, etc.

There is no way to win without pain.

The most practical solution is to stop all illegal immigration, hell limit immigration even legally, stop blowing money on illegal immigrants. Reinvest all the resources into education our own, legal population and putting the unemployed into work.

When our kids can spell again and the economy picks up and we pay off a little bit of debt even, then we go out and help mexico become less corrupt, improve the health of its cities, build infrastructure, restore faith in the government, and generally become someplace you'd want to stay. Healthy neighbors is a good goal in the big picture.

This is will never happen because:

1) it is not politically expedient
2) lots of current immigrants would be hurt (related to #1)
3) it presumes our education systems and bureaucracy can be fixed at all
4) even if USA can be improved, it won't happen soon (related to all of the above)

Instead, we'll probably mortage our future by borrowing money and making poor short term spending decisions to try and fix all the problems (more freebies to everyone) and end up doing nothing but fucking up the future and the present more.


we could just put a few smart people in charge, fuck democracy, and get shit done
but that also presumes there are smart people out there, that we can find them, and that those smart people are also trustworthy

which is alot of presumptions

in otherwords

no win


this country was/is built on immigration..... and about the job market thing, there only taking jobs that most people dont want anyway...

Facepalm// I too am Mexican. I can speak, read, and write in Spanish probrably better than you.


why facepalm...i didnt say you didnt, i said you probably didnt..well ya theres my point....and i go to mexico twice to thrice a year so i know whats going on over there, and the big thing is to kidnapp people.

[cc4usmc]

there main reason is to work to provide food and shelter for there families and in general live a better life than they did in their country, and dont tell me that they NEED to learn english to live here and get a job and blah blah......im not saying they shouldnt though, im just saying its not the main reason they came over.

Do you really think they're that better off then they are in Mexico? Honestly, think about it. Tell me what's better. There are Americans who can barely get anywhere, there's only so far you can get.

OptionZero's post is awesome. The US is doing exactly what it does with every other major issue, it finds ways to get around it instead of taking care of it.

[Touge Noob S13]

why facepalm...i didnt say you didnt, i said you probably didnt..well ya theres my point....and i go to mexico twice to thrice a year so i know whats going on over there, and the big thing is to kidnapp people.

You said that I wouldn't get any of that because it was in Spanish. I also noticed that the videos you posted all said secuestros de EL ESTADO DE MEXICO not all of Mexico EL ESTADO DE MEXICO! A qual estado vas tu dOMEmE porque se oihe que tu vas al estado mas meirda de toda la republica Mexicana.

[dOMEmE]

Do you really think they're that better off then they are in Mexico? Honestly, think about it. Tell me what's better. There are Americans who can barely get anywhere, there's only so far you can get.

OptionZero's post is awesome. The US is doing exactly what it does with every other major issue, it finds ways to get around it instead of taking care of it.

honestly all of those people that say, why is it better... its too much to explain....the only way you will ever fully understand is to live out there and see first hand...i did and its straight up wild wild west....you thought the cops here are corrupt..HA!...housing, food, money issues over there beat the US "problems" by a long shot. and the americans that can barely get anywhere is because there not trying hard enough...

perfect example... on the freeway off ramps, the mexican people at least try to make money selling your oranges or fruits or flowers...dam lazy ass white people just hold a sign that says 'please help need money' ...its because they have no initiative or motivation like most immigrants...they even have the upper hand they were fucking born here!!!! there legel!!! they can easily fucken get a job!!!!!!

[dOMEmE]

You said that I wouldn't get any of that because it was in Spanish. I also noticed that the videos you posted all said secuestros de EL ESTADO DE MEXICO not all of Mexico EL ESTADO DE MEXICO! A qual estado vas tu dOMEmE porque se oihe que tu vas al estado mas meirda de toda la republica Mexicana.

neta que eres baboso, llo en nigun momento dije que era de ayi. los videos son de ayi..pero si quieres te encuentro videos de otros estados donde si no son secuestros, son narcos, oh politicos que les vale puro verga la jente i nada mas quieren dinero en su bolsa... de una manera o otra el punto es que la vida es cien veses mas mejor aqui que aya. craneale vato neta.

[Touge Noob S13]

neta que eres baboso, llo en nigun momento dije que era de ayi. los videos son de ayi..pero si quieres te encuentro videos de otros estados donde si no son secuestros, son narcos, oh politicos que les vale puro verga la jente i nada mas quieren dinero en su bolsa... de una manera o otra el punto es que la vida es cien veses mas mejor aqui que aya. craneale vato neta.


So do you want a response in English or Spanish because I will gladly give it to you in both languages. Since the main language of this forum is English I will respond in English so no one gets lost. Look the drug lords (narcos) fight amongst themselves mostly and the police on occasions. Most of the people affected are people involved in that business. Corrupt politicians aren't anything new there are some here in the US believe it or not. Mexico isn't perfect yes but no way does it deserve to dragged in the dirt. I do take some pride in being Mexican even if my own people deny it to me (because I don't look like a typical Mexican)

[dOMEmE]

I do take some pride in being Mexican even if my own people deny it to me (because I don't look like a typical Mexican)

or think like one. funny how you said some pride....its either you do or dont buddy cant in between....your location says everything i need to know about you...

[Touge Noob S13]

or think like one. funny how you said some pride....its either you do or dont buddy cant in between....your location says everything i need to know about you...

I say some because the people that usually have pride come off as being pro Mexico, all white people are bad, America sucks types. While the ones with no pride are hateful of Mexico for no apparent reason, are ashamed of their heritage, and can't speak Spanish. I love America and Mexico. My parents came to this country in the early eighties looking for a better life and thanks to Ronald Regan they recieved amensty. After that they used their new rights the best they could to achieve their dreams of a good life for them and their children. Dome, you can say what you want about me, I'm pretty used to it for the most part.

[dOMEmE]

you can say what you want about me, I'm pretty used to it for the most part.

good as long as were on the same page...

[sidedrifts13]

pointless thread

[zeitgeist]

^pointless post

only reason i have a problem with illegal immigration because it is so fucking difficult for others to get in the USA legally and illegals just walk right in whenever.
But on the other hand id do the same exact thing had i been put in their situation. Gotta feed your family somehow when there arent jobs in your country

[OptionZero]

this country was/is built on immigration..... and about the job market thing, there only taking jobs that most people dont want anyway...



Does the country have to choke on immigration as well? You fill a flower pot with soil, but you don't water it with dirt.

I do not believe that the country has reached the maximum capacity it can *ever* hold, but I do believe the country has exceeded the maximum capacity it can sustain in its current state. A four bedroom house can probably hold 8 people, but when three of its rooms are busted up and in need of repair maybe it's better to put up a no vacancy sign and patch the roof, replace the plumbing, paint the walls before you let new tenants in to add to the wear and tear. Nobody sits on a toilet while the plumber tries to do his work.

But again, like I said. No one wants to take the hit while a real solution is done. Like putting off surgery and using a bandage over a bullet wound while you slowly die from internal damage and bleeding.

As for the jobs thing, I'm sure Americans don't want to take menial jobs and they haven't . . . in the short term. The problem is with illegal immigration, we can no longer see how that plays out over some time. Illegal immigrants are much faster to snap up lower paying jobs than "ordinary" Americans, and the argument you just made comes up. An important but never accounted for factor in the labor market is time. An unemployed person does not immediately move to the best available job because he is human and there are always factors like pride, logistics, family, what not. A large supply of illegal immigrants will distort that market by filling in the "cracks" in available jobs before the rest of the market adjusts to unemployment.

That's my take - I'd probably take a crappy job if i had to, but i wouldn't be happy about it and it would take me a bit to get around to it.

[ESmorz]

As long as the ""titos stay open 24 hours I don't care, doesn't much matter anyways... 2012 brah.

[cc4usmc]

Does the country have to choke on immigration as well? You fill a flower pot with soil, but you don't water it with dirt.

As I was laying in bed last night I thought of the perfect example to use to try and help him understand.

You can't be that person in a movie who only has limited supplies or limited room in your car but can't resist from bringing in a few more people. It always backfires. And it's backfiring, hell it's been backfiring for a long time.

Oh, and that wasn't the example I was thinking about lol.

[BustedS13]

.....the United States is not overpopulated. California and NYC may be, but the rest of the country has plenty of room.

[Brian]

If anybody wants to come over, great.

but, PLEASE.... PLEASE FUCKING DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, ASSHOLES.

[DALAZ_68]

If anybody wants to come over, great.

but, PLEASE.... PLEASE FUCKING DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, ASSHOLES.

see...now that statement gets to me...not because my parents came here illegally (which now they are U.S. citizens), but doing it the "right way" to get here Legally from the get go takes $$$

$$$ that most low income families couldnt even consider to afford, let alone lower incomes from like say mexico...

for example...my cuzin (fathers sister's daughter), for a while we tried to get her over here for her to continue her studies (to go to college)...she has blood relatives here (which is one of the requirements) and weve been here since mid 80's (blood relatives had to be in the US minimum 10 yrs or so)...10k payed, and about 8 months later...we were denied her approval by the US, to come here...she was 19 at the time, no record or priors, top grades of her school.

my father is also an honest living man, so it wasnt that it was because he had any sort of record or priors, we were just sent a notice saying we denied...did we get our money back, no...

the easiest way to do it was to get here first, and then become a citizen.

there are 2 types of immigrants, those who come to expose the market of labor and give nothing back to the country that they arrived in...

and then there are people like my father who came here...busted his ass like any immigrant can, got his citizen ship, and now has a pretty respectable job, pays taxes and everything...

and be4 you even consider thinking he came from a rich town, he's originally from Oaxaca (pronounce : Wa-ha-ka), Mexico... from a little poor town named Tlalixtac.

in my opinion, i honest to fucken god don't care how you got here...legal or not, just do the right thing, get ur citizen ship, and give back to the country thats adopted you...

[BustedS13]

in my opinion, i honest to fucken god don't care how you got here...legal or not, just do the right thing, get ur citizen ship, and give back to the country thats adopted you...

this is how i feel. if your life in your current country sucks THAT MUCH, just jump the fence and get a job, and in a few months start working on getting legal.

[dOMEmE]

.....the United States is not overpopulated. California and NYC may be, but the rest of the country has plenty of room.

this is one of the best statements so far..

this is how i feel. if your life in your current country sucks THAT MUCH, just jump the fence and get a job, and in a few months start working on getting legal.

yup yup....

[I LUV MY S13]

Are you talking about ILLEGAL or LEGAL immigration?

Legal, yeah they can all come over too I don't mind.

Illegal however, I would shoot every single one that tried. Taking advatage of all our shit costing the taxpayers millions


Really??

well im illegal and tag all over thee streets..

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I was very liberal on the immigration issue until my friend, who is Mexican, was rear ended by a Mexican man who tested a .16. The guy was the definition of a person who does not belong in this country, and he bounced his ass right back to Mexico after breaking my friends back. For those who say that it's all cool for them to be here has never had something like this happened to them.
With that being said, I think the ability to become an American citizen should be a bit easier and not take so long, that way we could at least have papers on these people. A lot of people come to this country to escape their Mexican families or, worst, because they were wanted in Mexico for a serious crime. We need to get a paper trail on some of these guys and spend the type of money we're WASTING overseas and bring it here to protect OUR borders from the bad ones. It's not the hard workers that are giving the problems, it's the murderers, rapist, drug dealers, etc that is giving the US problems. If it comes down to blocking everyone out to keep the small percentage out, then so be it.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Really??

well im illegal and tag all over thee streets..
I really hope you're kidding.

[RB24_S14]

see...now that statement gets to me...not because my parents came here illegally (which now they are u.s. Citizens), but doing it the "right way" to get here legally from the get go takes $$$

$$$ that most low income families couldnt even consider to afford, let alone lower incomes from like say mexico...

For example...my cuzin (fathers sister's daughter), for a while we tried to get her over here for her to continue her studies (to go to college)...she has blood relatives here (which is one of the requirements) and weve been here since mid 80's (blood relatives had to be in the us minimum 10 yrs or so)...10k payed, and about 8 months later...we were denied her approval by the us, to come here...she was 19 at the time, no record or priors, top grades of her school.

My father is also an honest living man, so it wasnt that it was because he had any sort of record or priors, we were just sent a notice saying we denied...did we get our money back, no...

The easiest way to do it was to get here first, and then become a citizen.

There are 2 types of immigrants, those who come to expose the market of labor and give nothing back to the country that they arrived in...

And then there are people like my father who came here...busted his ass like any immigrant can, got his citizen ship, and now has a pretty respectable job, pays taxes and everything...

And be4 you even consider thinking he came from a rich town, he's originally from oaxaca (pronounce : Wa-ha-ka), mexico... From a little poor town named tlalixtac.

In my opinion, i honest to fucken god don't care how you got here...legal or not, just do the right thing, get ur citizen ship, and give back to the country thats adopted you...

you are 100% right

[HyperTek]

Personally what I dislike is the individuals who come over and band together and wave their flags and stuff, talking about pride or whatever, and have no desire to assimilate or even learn the language at least.
It's like, why move someplace else, if you want that place to be exactly as crappy as the place you just left.

By the way, not saying all Mexicans are like that, and that Mexico is crappy, because there are really awesome parts of Mexico. It's just that most of the Mexicans who immigrate here tend to come from the crappy parts, and give all of Mexico a poor image.

I agree. Im all for the guys who want better living and try to work hard for it. I grew up in socal *inland empire*, and where I live now is mostly a mexican area. But everyone is cool I havent seen any crazy stuff yet or been in any situation that really made me upset about it.

The only thing that bothers me is all the vehicles around here I see, old busted cars and they probably dont have license/insurance.

I think ive seen more trouble caused by the illegals first born gangsta children who really mess around too much. Not everyone, but the gangsta kids who didnt have their parents around to raise them right because they where too busy working.

[ronmcdon]

I can also attest that it's very difficult to legally get US citizenship
that's assuming you don't already live here.
I've known a lot ppl with college degrees (and usually some $$$), speak decent English, etc.
Very few can obtain a US citizenship via legit means.

Trying to see the scenario from an immigrant's perspective,
I can definitely see how it's easier, & pays off to obtain citizenship after you've arrived.
It's eerie how our government coordinates it's immigration this way.
IMO, this pretty much encourages ppl to come over illegally (I know I would do this).

It's also strange how 'legally' ppl from certain countries are allowed very easy access than others.
(i.e. Taiwan, Korea, Armenia, etc).
Maybe it has something to do with the political ties with other nations, idk.

[HyperTek]

my asian relatives have to wait years to get legal access to the US.. even 10+ years for some of my family members before even coming here, and when they do come here, already got established families to get them off to the right start. It is worth it.

People say illegals are supporting their families, hopefully they are smart enough not to have kids if they know they are going to be broke. I firmly believe no child needs to come from a struggling home.

[ronmcdon]

My asian relatives from Hong Kong couldn't even get here (the US).
They easily immigrated into Canada, however.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I agree. Im all for the guys who want better living and try to work hard for it. I grew up in socal *inland empire*, and where I live now is mostly a mexican area. But everyone is cool I havent seen any crazy stuff yet or been in any situation that really made me upset about it.

The only thing that bothers me is all the vehicles around here I see, old busted cars and they probably dont have license/insurance.

I think ive seen more trouble caused by the illegals first born gangsta children who really mess around too much. Not everyone, but the gangsta kids who didnt have their parents around to raise them right because they where too busy working.
I also grew up in the IE. I graduated from Bloomington and really noticed this also. They have a twisted version of their heritage. They think that the bald head and being Raider fans and gangbangin in apart of being a Mexican. It's sad that this goes on. Of course I'm talking about the bad one's but it's funny how all the bad one's look, talk, walk, and dress alike.

[ronmcdon]

Well, the 2nd generation usually have it harder in terms of adapting.
This is especially the case if the parents refuse to adapt to American culture at all.
I don't think it's limited to the Vin Diesel wannabe's (for lack of a better term, you have to watch what you say here).

[Touge Noob S13]

I think ive seen more trouble caused by the illegals first born gangsta children who really mess around too much. Not everyone, but the gangsta kids who didnt have their parents around to raise them right because they where too busy working.

Very true, I saw this first hand in HS.

People say illegals are supporting their families, hopefully they are smart enough not to have kids if they know they are going to be broke. I firmly believe no child needs to come from a struggling home.

Unfortunatly all of them chose to have kids.

[cc4usmc]

I wonder if anyone who has illegal parents will post in this thread that they're against illegal immigration. Hmmm, I doubt it...

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I wonder if anyone who has illegal parents will post in this thread that they're against illegal immigration. Hmmm, I doubt it...
It is just bad parenting, honestly. It sets an example that it's ok to break the law, as long as you hide. People's opinions do not matter on the subject, the law is the law and if you teach your kids to nitpick which law they agree with and disagree with then they're bound for trouble. If you're going to come here at least make a valid attempt to become a citizen and keep your nose clean. If you don't then it's your own damn fault and I'm glad if you get sent home.
However, the length of time from application to legalization is astronomical. Took my mother in law 25 years to make that step. They need to look for ways to keep the good citizens and kick out the bad one's more efficiently.

[I LUV MY S13]

I really hope you're kidding.

of course i was, i was born here and hate bitch ass taggers..i was responding to that dumbfuck that wants to "murder" illegal immigrants..

statements like that pisses me off, i have a few family members that are illegal immigrants (from mexico), they do work hard, they are good people, and they honestly don't cost tax payers much money at all....

its those few apples that spoil the bunch i guess you can say..

my uncle has lived in this country for almost 10 years now. hes married, he works, owns a house, has 2 babies, and is one of the greatest persons i know...works at an autoshop partime and is in charge of some of the onion and strawberry fields in fresno, makes a fair amount doing it also..yeah and for those who claim that mexican immigrants take up jobs, he is willing to hire anybody that WANTS to work out there..if anything the mexican immigrants are taking the jobs that people dont want, you guys think its so bad, well do your research and lookup the benefits of illegal immigrants..

gaining citizenship aint easy

[Brian]

gaining citizenship aint easy



Is it supposed to be easy?

[I LUV MY S13]

no but it should be easier

[Brian]

Why should it be more easy?

Is there a valid reason?

(not trying to be a jerk, just wondering.)

[I LUV MY S13]

there are alot of people who want the opportunity of being an american citizen, but cant because of the process

[Brian]

I believe if you want something bad enough, you will work your ass off to get it.

This could be a TV, a car, a house....

With that said, I think if a person wants to become an American, they should be willing to try damn hard to do it.

[ronmcdon]

Well it's easier to come into the country first (even if illegally),
and then get your citizenship, legally.
of course ppl are going to take the easier route.

should it be easy?
perhaps a better question to ask, is should it be fair?

[Max_PSi]

Did it happen to occur to some of you that the cost and time it takes to become a citizen is, in part, due to the US trying to limit immigration?

25 years is absurd, but getting here legally shouldn't be as easy as getting 5000 WIN coupons at Chucky fuckin Cheese's either. Hence, the ppl saying fuck it and coming here illegally. Plain and simple if your here illegally you've broken the law.

[I LUV MY S13]

I believe if you want something bad enough, you will work your ass off to get it.

This could be a TV, a car, a house....

With that said, I think if a person wants to become an American, they should be willing to try damn hard to do it.

that makes sense but isnt always the case..like i said before my uncle has been working on it for a lil over 6 years now, and no luck still, married and everything..english is excellent, slight accent but you would never think hes illegal

friend of my dad lives in argentina, he is very wealthy, translated to U.S dollars his income would probably be around 200k..he owns a trucking company out there..hes been working on it for 3 and still having issues

[upsdude]

Plain and simple if your here illegally you've broken the law.


when we talk about border enforcement, we're racist...meanwhile mexico cracks down on IT'S border with guatemala. what a double standard. my parent's came here legally from the phillippines. they learned english, and took the test to become u.s. citizens. so i don't have sympathy for people who come here illegally and circumvent the system...on the other side of the coin, EMPLOYERS need to get whacked hard for hiring illegals. if it weren't for the promise of jobs people would be so hellbent on coming into the country in the first place.

[CrimsonRockett]

that makes sense but isnt always the case..like i said before my uncle has been working on it for a lil over 6 years now, and no luck still, married and everything..english is excellent, slight accent but you would never think hes illegal

friend of my dad lives in argentina, he is very wealthy, translated to U.S dollars his income would probably be around 200k..he owns a trucking company out there..hes been working on it for 3 and still having issues

My aunt (who's practically my second mom because she raised me while my mom worked 50+hours at $5/hour) had been here since the day I was born. I'm 21 now.

She didn't become a legal citizen up until 2 years ago.

She might not have tried way back then, but when she did, it took YEARS.

My Dad came to the US when he was 13 (50 now). Back then, it wasn't as hard. He then helped my mom get her papers when she was about 23 (49 now). First thing my dad did when he got here was work hard to get a better education and worked any job he possibly could to pay for that. The only shitty part was that he was originally sent to the US to work by my grandparents because they were money hungry fuckers. Most of his checks would have to go to them.

I have absolutely no problem with illegal immigrants coming into the United States trying to make a better life for themselves/their families. It's the ones that take advantage of the system that I wouldn't mind being kicked out of here.

Another one of my aunts for example. She's using illegal documents to get all sorts of help from the government.

Does she work? Nope.

She can get her ass deported back to Mexico for all I care.

[redline racer510]

I just want people to remember one thing "mexican and canadian drug cartel"

[DALAZ_68]

Is it supposed to be easy?
no, but god dammit give em a chance

Why should it be more easy?

Is there a valid reason?

(not trying to be a jerk, just wondering.)

put it this way, it took my father roughly 8 yrs to save up 10k for my cuzin, on top of paying for mortgage on the house, 2 new car bills, and providing for a family, 8yr B, turn to nothing when he was declined citizen for his niece, and got nothing in return, not even a temp visa for her to atleast visit...

and if you in mexico, comin from the lower class, and mind you, the poor here in the U.S. is consider the lower class in mexico...you will nevr be able to make anywhere near close enough money to come here legally, especially being a farmer from a small villiage that supporting his family...



I believe if you want something bad enough, you will work your ass off to get it.

This could be a TV, a car, a house....

With that said, I think if a person wants to become an American, they should be willing to try damn hard to do it.

and i believe that too B, but when you own government take your money and says they have no record of you proposing leaving the country, what the fuck are you suppose to do...? because thats what happened to my aunt on my dads side a few years back...

and possesions are completely different than someone's life/future.

Well it's easier to come into the country first (even if illegally),
and then get your citizenship, legally.
of course ppl are going to take the easier route.

should it be easy?
perhaps a better question to ask, is should it be fair?


And who the fuck ever said crossing illegaly is easy!? you think crossing desert area, passing dead bodies, watching bird circle around you, having to crawl thru a sewer is fucking easy...?

i would to see...nay i would pay to see someone here, who was born with the liberties they have and take for granted, take that little trip and i bet your ass they would change there mind of how "Easy" it is...

most dont do it just for the money, its for an actual future, and there kids future.

the ones i would love to deport are the people like crimsonrockett's aunt, or lil wannabe gang banger that is a first gen US born and there parents are barely making it to give them everything...

EMPLOYERS need to get whacked hard for hiring illegals. if it weren't for the promise of jobs people would be so hellbent on coming into the country in the first place.

see how well CA would do without ALL those hard working Honest illegals, small business would cave so fast, pretty sure we would have reached an economic crippling faster if it wasnt for so many immigrants making money and buying homes...



my point is, dont bunch eveyone together...when you do...you look like a bigger dumbass for being self centered on an issue that is bigger than you are...

[steve shadows]

My Father is rom eastern Europe,

He came here from Canada in the 60s, he used credit cards to pay some of the fees, vet visa etc.

My Moms side is also immigrants from Italy. I'm first generation.

Yeah he's in debt up to his eyes still but he came here legally, gave us a great chance at life and did it legally.

[DALAZ_68]

My Father is rom eastern Europe,

He came here from Canada in the 60s, he used credit cards to pay some of the fees, vet visa etc.

My Moms side is also immigrants from Italy. I'm first generation.

Yeah he's in debt up to his eyes still but he came here legally, gave us a great chance at life and did it legally.


and i applaud him whole heartidly, different countries have different oppurtunities, my father didnt even graduate elementry and was asked to start working the fields with his father... my mother never even saw the inside of a class room till she was 34 walking my older brother to kindergarden.

im not sayin your parents or anyone else parents or relatives didnt have a bad life, im no one to do that...im simply responding from my families situation...

both my parents literally risk life and limb to get here...and ive asked them more than once wether they regret there decisions, never do they hesitate to tell me NO...

2 illegals crossed over to the U.S. several years ago...had 3 kids, raised them RIGHT!...now

one of them is a father and is an assistant manager at a huge furniture franchise

the middle child is now an RN

the youngest works for a nationally known company as a project engineer


thank you mom and dad...FUCKING THANK YOU!

[codyace]

Are you talking about ILLEGAL or LEGAL immigration?

Legal, yeah they can all come over too I don't mind.

Illegal however, I would shoot every single one that tried. Taking advatage of all our shit costing the taxpayers millions

So let me ask this (devils advocate)

Lets assume all of these illegals become legal citizens, and then just end up on our social network services anyway? They are an equal burden on taxpayers, accept for hte fact that they are now almost guarantees protection.

I mean it's a tough situation either way. I look at it from the 'capability' perspective, not the 'cost'...as either way they could end up 'costing' us.

[ronmcdon]

And who the fuck ever said crossing illegaly is easy!? you think crossing desert area, passing dead bodies, watching bird circle around you, having to crawl thru a sewer is fucking easy...?

i would to see...nay i would pay to see someone here, who was born with the liberties they have and take for granted, take that little trip and i bet your ass they would change there mind of how "Easy" it is...



I said Easier".
That's not the same as easy.

I don't think it's fair to presume that ALL who came/stayed here illegally did so difficultly either.
Some just flew over, and stayed past their travel visa.
Canadians used to be able to just waltz right through the border leisurely.

My impression is that that's easIER than applying for citizenship the supposedly legit way.
I'm not saying that to belittle the hardships of those who risk their lives crossing the border/sea/etc..

[amdnivram]

So let me ask this (devils advocate)

Lets assume all of these illegals become legal citizens, and then just end up on our social network services anyway? They are an equal burden on taxpayers, accept for the fact that they are now almost guarantees protection.

I mean it's a tough situation either way. I look at it from the 'capability' perspective, not the 'cost'...as either way they could end up 'costing' us.
this statement is implying that people aren't already using social network services that don't even need it. Instead of pointing at those who are afraid to protect themselves people should see those who are fully capable and blame them for being lazy and a parasite on the economy. I'm sure not all the people who get financial help are immigrants, hell im positive that most are legal.

I said Easier".
That's not the same as easy.

I don't think it's fair to presume that all who came here illegally did so difficultly either.
Some just flew over, and stayed past their travel visa.

IM sure waiting a couple of years and being in dept is easier than risking your life and going through horrendous conditions in order to have a better life.


is there anyway i can combine my two since i posted one before see the other quote =/

[I LUV MY S13]

My aunt (who's practically my second mom because she raised me while my mom worked 50+hours at $5/hour) had been here since the day I was born. I'm 21 now.

She didn't become a legal citizen up until 2 years ago.

She might not have tried way back then, but when she did, it took YEARS.

My Dad came to the US when he was 13 (50 now). Back then, it wasn't as hard. He then helped my mom get her papers when she was about 23 (49 now). First thing my dad did when he got here was work hard to get a better education and worked any job he possibly could to pay for that. The only shitty part was that he was originally sent to the US to work by my grandparents because they were money hungry fuckers. Most of his checks would have to go to them.

I have absolutely no problem with illegal immigrants coming into the United States trying to make a better life for themselves/their families. It's the ones that take advantage of the system that I wouldn't mind being kicked out of here.

Another one of my aunts for example. She's using illegal documents to get all sorts of help from the government.

Does she work? Nope.

She can get her ass deported back to Mexico for all I care.

AMEN.:bowdown:

situations like these is why i think it should be easier, a majority of the people are coming here for better lives.

if things are so great for people in there country, why the fuck would they come here?? its the opportunity this country has to offer that attracts so many people

[upsdude]

see how well CA would do without ALL those hard working Honest illegals, small business would cave so fast, pretty sure we would have reached an economic crippling faster if it wasnt for so many immigrants making money and buying homes...
my point is, dont bunch eveyone together...when you do...you look like a bigger dumbass for being self centered on an issue that is bigger than you are...

you mean the adjustable rate home loans where people inlfated their incomes? yeah how well is that working out in the CA housing market right now? and i don't think the economy here would collapse considering we have a %17 unemployment rate. i'm sure there are plenty of people who would work if given the chance.

i didn't know having an opinion constituted being a dumbass and self centered. last time i checked i was a taxpaying citizen, so forgive me for worrying about the quality of my life. your above statement makes you come off as close minded and ignorant.

my point about employers is simple: businesses big and small have taken advantage of immigrant (legal and illegal) labor because its so cheap. but by doing so we've basically imported poverty. let's not forget that california is a huge welfare state. it's no wonder people sneak in here from other countries-we give out all this free shit!

[I LUV MY S13]

and i applaud him whole heartidly, different countries have different oppurtunities, my father didnt even graduate elementry and was asked to start working the fields with his father... my mother never even saw the inside of a class room till she was 34 walking my older brother to kindergarden.

im not sayin your parents or anyone else parents or relatives didnt have a bad life, im no one to do that...im simply responding from my families situation...

both my parents literally risk life and limb to get here...and ive asked them more than once wether they regret there decisions, never do they hesitate to tell me NO...

2 illegals crossed over to the U.S. several years ago...had 3 kids, raised them RIGHT!...now

one of them is a father and is an assistant manager at a huge furniture franchise

the middle child is now an RN

the youngest works for a nationally known company as a project engineer


thank you mom and dad...FUCKING THANK YOU!

damn i got chills reading haha..

yeah its really hard to find people with credit, or even the ability to obtain that or loans in mexico..most people see it as a vacation get away over there or whatever, but they don't see the everyday shit that goes on over there, the kidnappings( highest rate in the world i think), rape, murder, drug smuggling, human trafficking, shit goes on and on

heres a story for you guys,

a few years back during the summer(2008 i think) me and a few of tha homies went on a vaca to mazatlan, mexico..fuckin beautiful, i plan on going back some day..well anyways, there is military driving around all over the place, armed. mazatlan is known for one of the cartels, well in downtown i mean.

one night we went to a club, and i hooked with this chick right. so at the club we're talking whatever, and her mom was there, i was like OK....then i see her mom introducing her younger sister to some man, and then im like wait wtf how old are you??. shes like, "oh im 19"..then i was like damn how old is your sis then??...12..i was shocked..this lady comes to a club, that doesnt close, serves alcohol all night to a bunch of weirdos, with her husband and 2 daughters, and is trying to introduce them to 30+ yr old men..she even did the same thing to the chick i was getting at, while we're sitting down she walks up and tries to introduce so and so...

and guess what? this is noraml over there

you guys need a better understanding? watch the movies Man On Fire and Bordertown and you tell me if you'd raise a daughter out there..please watch these films

[codyace]

this statement is implying that people aren't already using social network services that don't even need it. Instead of pointing at those who are afraid to protect themselves people should see those who are fully capable and blame them for being lazy and a parasite on the economy. I'm sure not all the people who get financial help are immigrants, hell im positive that most are legal.



Not implying anything:

My comment was in relation to those who say

'zomg illegals are a drain on our tax dollars and they get them without being legal'

vs

'well lets assume we legalize them all, and then a bunch of them are put onto legal support....

What's really the bigger 'toll' on the taxpayer?

Trust me, I'm A HUGE propoent of the 'underemployment' statistics vs the 'unemployed' statistics. There are PLENTY of people who are capable of work (again like above, capability) who simply view jobs as 'beneath them' and would rather be jobless or collect. ....but that's a debate for another thread hehe.

[I LUV MY S13]

you wanna talk about tax dollars?

you know how much the wars have cost fiscal year?

$150,000,000,000=150 billion combined..

Iraq alone was 94.8

more than half on a pointless war!!

[upsdude]

^which is what i was talking about in a previous post. we got used to cheap labor, and americans, especially the younger ones...teens and early 20's-think manual labor is beneath them. to them if it doesn't start at 60k a year, in some cushy office then it's not worth considering. either that or people realize that they can get free services and stuff from the govt (welfare queens).

anyhow this whole argument about immigration is just as polarized as abortion. one side will always thing the other is wrong, and there's just no way to really fix it. but as unpopular as it makes me, i think citizens should be taken care of first. why should my kid get a substandard education just because so many resources are devoted to "non english speaking" students?

[drftmark]

And who the fuck ever said crossing illegaly is easy!? you think crossing desert area, passing dead bodies, watching bird circle around you, having to crawl thru a sewer is fucking easy...?

i would to see...nay i would pay to see someone here, who was born with the liberties they have and take for granted, take that little trip and i bet your ass they would change there mind of how "Easy" it is...

most dont do it just for the money, its for an actual future, and there kids future.

Why are you trying to glorify sneaking over here? Is this a Mexican pride thing? So you are calling people who were born in the US soft on what factual backing?

What gives you the right to talking about crossing the desert again? Did you do it?

Maybe the illegal Mexicans should stop having so many damn kids, and maybe stop for a second and THINK before they pop out 6 of them. More than half the time they can't even properly afford 1 kid. Then they bring all those kids over and/or have tons of kids here and proceed to dump them in the US taxpayers lap to foot the medical(and other) costs. Now we are left with tons of legal kids who shouldn't be here in the first place.





see how well CA would do without ALL those hard working Honest illegals, small business would cave so fast, pretty sure we would have reached an economic crippling faster if it wasnt for so many immigrants making money and buying homes...


Maybe legal kids in high school might actually be able to get a job then... Those small business would deserve to cave in because they hired illegal immigrants in the first place. America would get out of the "economic crippling" just like they got out of all the other economic crashes.


I am surprised(this being a car forum and all) I haven't really read anything about what happens when an illegal Mexican hits your car and he/she doesn't have car insurance. I know countless people who have been down right FUCKED because an illegal Mexican hit their car and they are left to pay for the damages.

[I LUV MY S13]

are you stupid?? 70% of American business is from small companies

and he wasnt glorifying anything, i didnt see him sate "good for them" or "im so proud they did it" or "thats the right way" or "congratulations"

he was stating what they went through and that crybabies like you wouldnt be able to do that..

oh and the average illegal woman has 2.5 kids..didnt know that? do research you dumb dick

[ronmcdon]

IM sure waiting a couple of years and being in dept is easier than risking your life and going through horrendous conditions in order to have a better life.


is there anyway i can combine my two since i posted one before see the other quote =/

Think it depends on the party in question trying to get over.
You figure ppl who have money, education, & can actually afford to wait for years, already have such a difficult time coming over.

What are the odds that somebody who doesn't have time or $$$.
They can't afford to wait.
They might not even have the option to deal with the immigration process.

Ppl just take the most practical route available to them.

[MidnightSlide]

I am by no means a racist... and I have a TON of respect for those that do what it takes to come into this country LEGALLY. Now, on to my thoughts..

Point blank.. Get them all out of here.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that sneaking in somewhere is unacceptable. Sure you may want a better life, but you have to earn it. Standing outside of a Home Depot, or having your own housekeeping business while you sit around with free healthcare and pay zero taxes is just beyond wrong.

If you want it, do what it takes to get it. Sure, I'd love a million dollars.. and my life would be friggin fantastic if I had it sitting in my back account right now.. but I am not going to rob someone to get it. I am going to have to work very hard for a long time to get it. These people should do the same...

I have friends that work hard as hell and struggle every day, and are denied the same medical benefits that these illegal pieces of trash are getting. We need to take care of our own before we can start thinking about taking care of the people that apparently don't have it well in their country.

Oh, and talk to a few Mexicans directly. I happen to know of quite a few that are here legally and have family back in Mexico. They live nice, simple lives and work hard for what they have back in their own country. They are also quite happy in doing so... What is so different about them? Why are they able to live a nice life in Mexico, and these illegals aren't?

Ladies and Gentleman, these people are human beings. Not puppies, or babies. They are completely capable of making informed decisions, and living their own lives. If they choose to break into my country, they deserve the same treatment that a criminal would get if they broke into my home. Plain and simple.

I really don't give a damn how bad things are back in their damn country.. we have our own problems, and we don't need them making it worse. I used to live in a predominantly white neighborhood, and at the time, in a decent area of town. Now, some 15 years later, it is a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. I drive through from time to time, and it looks no better than the streets of where these people came from and tried to escape from.

- Dirty homes with overgrown or dead lawns
- Dogs running around stray in the streets
- Not to mention that the damn billboards and building signs are all in spanish, and you are more likely to find a Liquor store on the corner than a Starbucks.

That speaks multitudes IMHO..

[drftmark]

MidnightSlide can see what is happening. They are just bringing their shit storm over here and flinging it everywhere.


are you stupid?? 70% of American business is from small companies

and he wasnt glorifying anything, i didnt see him sate "good for them" or "im so proud they did it" or "thats the right way" or "congratulations"

he was stating what they went through and that crybabies like you wouldnt be able to do that..

oh and the average illegal woman has 2.5 kids..didnt know that? do research you dumb dick
You are assuming that ALL 70% of American businesses are using illegal Mexicans as employees for your point to even be valid. Are you FUCKING stupid?

You are telling me that the way he has that written, it is not meant to glorify crossing illegally? You are really more retarded than your posts makes you out to be.

I thought this thread was about illegal MEXICANS, find me a average number for only MEXICAN women... so pull your dumb limp dick out of Dalaz and bend over and plug your mouth with it so you will quit talking.

most people see it as a vacation get away over there or whatever, but they don't see the everyday shit that goes on over there, the kidnappings( highest rate in the world i think), rape, murder, drug smuggling, human trafficking, shit goes on and on


Maybe this tells you something about the culture that is flooding over here and turning parts of the US into Mexico like MidnightSlide pointed out.

[DALAZ_68]

So let me ask this (devils advocate)

Lets assume all of these illegals become legal citizens, and then just end up on our social network services anyway? They are an equal burden on taxpayers, accept for hte fact that they are now almost guarantees protection.

I mean it's a tough situation either way. I look at it from the 'capability' perspective, not the 'cost'...as either way they could end up 'costing' us.

the more tax payers the bigger profit for uncle same...simply put, the US mainly bitches about immigration because they cant collect...plain and simple... were all fucking immigrant to this land...

you mean the adjustable rate home loans where people inlfated their incomes? yeah how well is that working out in the CA housing market right now? and i don't think the economy here would collapse considering we have a %17 unemployment rate. i'm sure there are plenty of people who would work if given the chance.

i didn't know having an opinion constituted being a dumbass and self centered. last time i checked i was a taxpaying citizen, so forgive me for worrying about the quality of my life. your above statement makes you come off as close minded and ignorant.

my point about employers is simple: businesses big and small have taken advantage of immigrant (legal and illegal) labor because its so cheap. but by doing so we've basically imported poverty. let's not forget that california is a huge welfare state. it's no wonder people sneak in here from other countries-we give out all this free shit!


pump your brakes, i wasnt calling you a dumbass,

my point is, dont bunch eveyone together...when you do...you look like a bigger dumbass for being self centered on an issue that is bigger thmy point is, dont bunch eveyone together...when you do...you look like a bigger dumbass for being self centered on an issue that is bigger than you are...

^ i wrote that under the paragraph directed towards you, ^ though that wasnt towards you so i apologise if you thought it was... mind you as ive stated before, my views are from a house hold that was developed by 2 (originally illegal) immigrants,

people making comments in this thread, who know nothing but what they hear on T.V. or what they are told by narrow minded family is who that is directed to...never said it was you, once again i apologize, wasnt my intent...


damn i got chills reading haha..

yeah its really hard to find people with credit, or even the ability to obtain that or loans in mexico..most people see it as a vacation get away over there or whatever, but they don't see the everyday shit that goes on over there, the kidnappings( highest rate in the world i think), rape, murder, drug smuggling, human trafficking, shit goes on and on

heres a story for you guys,

a few years back during the summer(2008 i think) me and a few of tha homies went on a vaca to mazatlan, mexico..fuckin beautiful, i plan on going back some day..well anyways, there is military driving around all over the place, armed. mazatlan is known for one of the cartels, well in downtown i mean.

one night we went to a club, and i hooked with this chick right. so at the club we're talking whatever, and her mom was there, i was like OK....then i see her mom introducing her younger sister to some man, and then im like wait wtf how old are you??. shes like, "oh im 19"..then i was like damn how old is your sis then??...12..i was shocked..this lady comes to a club, that doesnt close, serves alcohol all night to a bunch of weirdos, with her husband and 2 daughters, and is trying to introduce them to 30+ yr old men..she even did the same thing to the chick i was getting at, while we're sitting down she walks up and tries to introduce so and so...

and guess what? this is noraml over there

you guys need a better understanding? watch the movies Man On Fire and Bordertown and you tell me if you'd raise a daughter out there..please watch these films

honestly, movies dont depict shit to me unless its an actual documentary or you sit down with someone who lived thru it...when it's a family member, itll hit more to the heart...

[ronmcdon]

lets try to keep this discussion civil.
It would be a shame if it got locked.

[upsdude]

...you look like a bigger dumbass for being self centered on an issue that is bigger than you are...

just quotin' ya

[Edgar]

I love to hear success stories like this. My family being a great big part of my life were all immigrants just like everyone else. I really hate and don't read when people say "go back to Mexico" this and that. Not every "Latino", "Hispanic", is Mexican. My mother for example is from this pretty cool country in CA (Centro America), and she had to leave because of some crazy political crap you guys might know of that occurred there when she was younger. Yes, our country the United States of America is a land where dreams can come true. Not every Hispanic you see is Mexican or illegal for that matter. You know even like some of your family members that had to leave their home countries to come here and make a better life. I would go on about this later but keep it respectful guys. There are Zilvia members that are from a Latino background and we deserve respect as well, we are all the same just from different cultural and different places where things are different and you have to be open minded about them. SAY NO TO RACISM!

On another note before I exit this convo to the people that say "I hate when they take advantage of them taking advantage of the tax payers money" think about the actual true born on this soil Americans that have the opportunity to make something of themselves and really do take advantage of welfare, unemployment and whatever else you can think of. You cant blame one thing on one specific type of race, you just cant.

[upsdude]

ok but let's be realistic...what's the dominating demographic of the illegal immigrant population? hispanic/latino/chicano/insert name for mexican,central,and south american here.

[WISH ONE]

damn i got chills reading haha..

yeah its really hard to find people with credit, or even the ability to obtain that or loans in mexico..most people see it as a vacation get away over there or whatever, but they don't see the everyday shit that goes on over there, the kidnappings( highest rate in the world i think), rape, murder, drug smuggling, human trafficking, shit goes on and on

heres a story for you guys,

a few years back during the summer(2008 i think) me and a few of tha homies went on a vaca to mazatlan, mexico..fuckin beautiful, i plan on going back some day..well anyways, there is military driving around all over the place, armed. mazatlan is known for one of the cartels, well in downtown i mean.

one night we went to a club, and i hooked with this chick right. so at the club we're talking whatever, and her mom was there, i was like OK....then i see her mom introducing her younger sister to some man, and then im like wait wtf how old are you??. shes like, "oh im 19"..then i was like damn how old is your sis then??...12..i was shocked..this lady comes to a club, that doesnt close, serves alcohol all night to a bunch of weirdos, with her husband and 2 daughters, and is trying to introduce them to 30+ yr old men..she even did the same thing to the chick i was getting at, while we're sitting down she walks up and tries to introduce so and so...

and guess what? this is noraml over there

you guys need a better understanding? watch the movies Man On Fire and Bordertown and you tell me if you'd raise a daughter out there..please watch these films


It really all depends where you go, Sinaloa, the state Mazatlan is in is known for cocaine, trafficking, crime etc.
My parents live in La paz, Baja california which is directly across the sea of cortez from Mazatlan.
Sinaloa is notorious for drugs, if you come across the fairy from Mazatlan with Sinaloa plates and a policeman sees you,
its mandatory that you will be pulled over and searched, regardless if you did anything wrong or not.
Most of the borders in mexico/US or surrounding cities are places you dont want to visit. They're sort of the pit of mexico and central america everyone who doesnt make it gets stranded there.


and the whole thing about the daughters... lol
sounds like Prostitution and it is normal everywhere.

But I have never in my life been to a bar or club in mexico and had some lady some lady try to pawn off her daughters on me just because she wanted to introduce me in hopes that I would take them home with me.

If you liked Mazatlan I encourage you to visit La paz. You'll love it, and if you need a place to stay let me know ill hook you up, my parents have two homes and one is real close to the beach and all the night life and for the most part its alway empty.


as far as Illegals and Imigrants
I not a citizen, I am a permanent resident all my ish is legit.
I have been here for 16 years now and my citizenship paperwork is just not going through.
I pay my taxes, I am employed and have always been, Im not depleteing the system. LOL
ive met people born here, non immigrant, who are on "disability" or "unemployment" working under the table, depleting the system and they dont feel theyre doing wrong because they are american. is this wrong? is this a right because this is their country and they feel they have a birth right?
The whole system is twisted and this will be an ongoing problem forever.
ehhhh whatever im over it.
This thread is going no where.

[Touge Noob S13]

damn i got chills reading haha..

yeah its really hard to find people with credit, or even the ability to obtain that or loans in mexico..most people see it as a vacation get away over there or whatever, but they don't see the everyday shit that goes on over there, the kidnappings( highest rate in the world i think), rape, murder, drug smuggling, human trafficking, shit goes on and on

heres a story for you guys,

a few years back during the summer(2008 i think) me and a few of tha homies went on a vaca to mazatlan, mexico..fuckin beautiful, i plan on going back some day..well anyways, there is military driving around all over the place, armed. mazatlan is known for one of the cartels, well in downtown i mean.

one night we went to a club, and i hooked with this chick right. so at the club we're talking whatever, and her mom was there, i was like OK....then i see her mom introducing her younger sister to some man, and then im like wait wtf how old are you??. shes like, "oh im 19"..then i was like damn how old is your sis then??...12..i was shocked..this lady comes to a club, that doesnt close, serves alcohol all night to a bunch of weirdos, with her husband and 2 daughters, and is trying to introduce them to 30+ yr old men..she even did the same thing to the chick i was getting at, while we're sitting down she walks up and tries to introduce so and so...

and guess what? this is noraml over there

you guys need a better understanding? watch the movies Man On Fire and Bordertown and you tell me if you'd raise a daughter out there..please watch these films


Dont tell me you are serious.

[DALAZ_68]

^which is what i was talking about in a previous post. we got used to cheap labor, and americans, especially the younger ones...teens and early 20's-think manual labor is beneath them. to them if it doesn't start at 60k a year, in some cushy office then it's not worth considering. either that or people realize that they can get free services and stuff from the govt (welfare queens).


100% agree...god knows this generation high % could not even consider having a minial task job...


anyhow this whole argument about immigration is just as polarized as abortion. one side will always thing the other is wrong, and there's just no way to really fix it. but as unpopular as it makes me, i think citizens should be taken care of first. why should my kid get a substandard education just because so many resources are devoted to "non english speaking" students?

once again i agree...if you plan on coming here, learn the fucking language...my father was actually pretty clever, he would go to local areas were tourist would go and offered to be a guide, slow he actually learned enough english to get him by, not to mention taking night classes to improve his speech when he came here...

Why are you trying to glorify sneaking over here?

who's glorifying it? theres nothing glorious about it...im just telling you what i know...


Is this a Mexican pride thing? So you are calling people who were born in the US soft on what factual backing?


im proud to Mexican, yes, but im also proud and thankfull to be an American.

As far as CA current young generation goes, id Say 80% if not more are soft, my facts stem from what i see on a daily basis here, not nation wide...its a nature nurture situation, frankly A LOT of parents let T.V. and other stupid shit raise there children to what they are now... but then i see young adults like here (Teddys13) for example who works his ass off to build his car and do what he loves to do, and seeing it stem from his mother who's incredibly supportive...he's one of the few that gives hope for the future of CA youth...


What gives you the right to talking about crossing the desert again? Did you do it?

my parents,the reason im here, bustin my balls, thats all the reason i need, could you fathem to understand that? once again, its one of those things you need to live thru to understand...


Maybe the illegal Mexicans should stop having so many damn kids, and maybe stop for a second and THINK before they pop out 6 of them. More than half the time they can't even properly afford 1 kid. Then they bring all those kids over and/or have tons of kids here and proceed to dump them in the US taxpayers lap to foot the medical(and other) costs. Now we are left with tons of legal kids who shouldn't be here in the first place.




AND i fucking agree...it all comes down to choice, my parents made the right one of being stable citizens, getting legal citizenship, buying a home, having long term careers, and then having children.

you might also want to widen your horizon to the illegals in this country, its not just mexicans...its all illegals, wether you see it or hear about it or not...

mind you, why is it that cubans are considered refugees, they leave there country as well...second they step on US soil there allowed here...why? cuz they cross bigger bodies of water? because they have a horribly currupt gov't? hmmm...





Maybe legal kids in high school might actually be able to get a job then... Those small business would deserve to cave in because they hired illegal immigrants in the first place. America would get out of the "economic crippling" just like they got out of all the other economic crashes.


maybe...if someone documented is willing to work, sure, but hey i havent met many people willing to do the work that an illegal would, and yes there employed because there willing to...

I am surprised(this being a car forum and all) I haven't really read anything about what happens when an illegal Mexican hits your car and he/she doesn't have car insurance. I know countless people who have been down right FUCKED because an illegal Mexican hit their car and they are left to pay for the damages.

wow, sounds like a personal situation like the ones ive been given. its happened to us to believe it or not...but weve also had accurances in which someone hit one of my friends car (06 350Z) fender, guy had no insurance, illegal, and guess what, he left his info, came back, and payed out of pocket for full damage to the fender...

and you cant say its only mexicans/immigrants that do that shit, fuck that, countless others including people in these forums who are white or "american" do that same shit, just like there the same ones who i dunno, drive illegally modified vehichles on public roads, or do illegal driving on said roads...that shit is common, not just an immigrant thing...

just like when my fathers truck was hit while in the parking lot, only to find out (parking lot security video) that it was an 84 yr old white guy, who, did not have insurance, did not have a valid drivers license (invalid due to being legally blind!). ohh but then you might bring out the argument of "cmon man hes an old dude"...fucking right he is, old enough to fucking know not to drive without legal paperwork, am i wrong here?

needless to say my father still, did not press charges, and let the man go, why? because my father knows that he himself can pay out of pocket for it, and there isnt any reason to burden that old man with little shit like this... and i say it again, this is from what ive experience...





Oh, and talk to a few Mexicans directly. I happen to know of quite a few that are here legally and have family back in Mexico. They live nice, simple lives and work hard for what they have back in their own country. They are also quite happy in doing so... What is so different about them? Why are they able to live a nice life in Mexico, and these illegals aren't?


ive never said you couldnt have a good life, some just want more, my fathers reason was that he wanted to raise a family away from the drugs BS near his village, hed seen enough of his friends get caught up and get killed, and he knew he had no futur there...misery isnt a life, its just you waiting for ur clock to run out...believe me or not, honestly i dont care...

i dont mean to glorify my parents acts, i merely feel like expressing my gratitude for it...sounds stupid, but it is what it is...we've never been handed anything...and dont plan to...



Ladies and Gentleman, these people are human beings. Not puppies, or babies. They are completely capable of making informed decisions, and living their own lives. If they choose to break into my country, they deserve the same treatment that a criminal would get if they broke into my home. Plain and simple.


i can agree with you half way, and sometimes they do loose there lives...it doesnt affect you, nor me directly, but its the trueth...if someone decides that the risk of there own life is worth the chance of a better tomorrow...ill respect that, but they better be willing to earn it as well...i hate, hate the fact that most of them think "well i suffered enough, time to just take take take", fuck that...


I really don't give a damn how bad things are back in their damn country.. we have our own problems, and we don't need them making it worse. I used to live in a predominantly white neighborhood, and at the time, in a decent area of town. Now, some 15 years later, it is a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. I drive through from time to time, and it looks no better than the streets of where these people came from and tried to escape from.

- Dirty homes with overgrown or dead lawns
- Dogs running around stray in the streets
- Not to mention that the damn billboards and building signs are all in spanish, and you are more likely to find a Liquor store on the corner than a Starbucks.

That speaks multitudes IMHO..

ohh well then fuck Haiti too...or filipines, right? why should we help them out in there time of need...fuck that right?

just like it doesnt affect me whats goin on in your neighborhood,since i dont live there, i wont give a damn...sucks to hear though...

its funny though, we live next to a white woman, and she's the one who has dogs running a muck, filthy front yard, delapidated cars...yet our house, is beautifull, clean cut grass, beautifull home, hell my father even offered to cut her yard, and she said no...go figure...




Maybe this tells you something about the culture that is flooding over here and turning parts of the US into Mexico like MidnightSlide pointed out.

err...last i checked, per history, part of the US was mexican owned... the US brought a war in 1848 that made CA what it is today. its funny, Immagrants, came to this country, tyranized the natives, called it there own. were all fucking immigrants, no matter how you see it...white yellow black brown, all the same shit in one pot.

lets try to keep this discussion civil.
It would be a shame if it got locked.

yes. please

[codyace]

are you stupid?? 70% of American business is from small companies

70% of business owners may be small privately companies or incorperations, but they certainly do not produce 70% of total production in the nation. Don't let those entry level business classes fool you, big business runs america.


oh and the average illegal woman has 2.5 kids..didnt know that? do research you dumb dick

Why not put up some sources since you're the resident name caller?

you wanna talk about tax dollars?
....
more than half on a pointless war!!

Define pointless. I'll never EVER be a propoent of cutting military funding. We're already involved -- it's not as easy as 'pack up and bounce' as many peole think it is. The logistics in moving even just a BRIGADE into and out of theater can easily take months. Trust me, I'm pretty well versed in military movements...

Sure it's a huge amount of money, but look at some of the other wars, and then compare them to today's inflation rates...you "may" be surprised to see that they are all very similar. Lets face it, to be the best, you gotta spend the most - that nearly applies to everything in life. Sure we could cut tons of corners and ride around in Jeeps without armor, but I'll be the first to say 'get fucked' if I had to drive that versus my M1114 ya know?


the more tax payers the bigger profit for uncle same...simply put, the US mainly bitches about immigration because they cant collect...plain and simple... were all fucking immigrant to this land...

Not disagreeing at all my man - MANY people often forget that our nation was founded on immigration, and tolerance for all kinds and religions. That's what makes our nation great.

In the same respect though, somthing does need to be addressed about today's immigration issues...building a fence IS NOT the answer ya know??

(Same can be said about healthcare reform....reform does not be ENTIRLY revamp...just fix what we have!)

[HAWAII]

I agree with the person that said, "Get the Illegals Out of Here, NOW!"

My parents came here legally, lined up in the US Embassy with a bunch of people that wanted a better life early morning just to submit some documents.

On the other hand, I also applaud the person that works really hard and wanted a better life for their family.

BUT, do you think it is fair for the person that came here legally to be turned down for a job because some illegal can do the job for half the minimum wage? How about we blame the employers that hire illegals? If they stop hiring illegals then they will get discouraged to come over here because no one is hiring undocumented aliens.

Also to the guy that said, it is OK coz they file taxes. Bro, how can they file taxes if they are using someone else's SSN? That is benefiting the one with the SSN. That is not benefiting the illegals, the only way that it benefits them is because when they do file, they get a refund due to the government credits. Why would they file a tax return if they have to pay?!? That does not make sense, even a legal person hates paying taxes. WTF?

The economy will not collapse, people will still do the job at hand.
I say regulate the free crap that the goverment doles out and give it to the legal immigrants and citizens that need it.

and put up an electric fence on the freaking border.

[DALAZ_68]

70% of business owners may be small privately companies or incorperations, but they certainly do not produce 70% of total production in the nation. Don't let those entry level business classes fool you, big business runs america.


no dissagreeing there, there also the same companies that source plants out of our country, taking jobs away from americans to make there products cheaper while making a profit...

why dont we put focus on how the land of the free outsources instead of keeping it at home, but we dont...

atleast smaller companies keep it home...sure small amounts end up back at the home countries of the workers, but its pennies compared to amount lost to overseas workers...
[/quote]





Not disagreeing at all my man - MANY people often forget that our nation was founded on immigration, and tolerance for all kinds and religions. That's what makes our nation great.

In the same respect though, somthing does need to be addressed about today's immigration issues...building a fence IS NOT the answer ya know??

(Same can be said about healthcare reform....reform does not be ENTIRLY revamp...just fix what we have!)


agree...

[upsdude]

Not disagreeing at all my man - MANY people often forget that our nation was founded on immigration, and tolerance for all kinds and religions. That's what makes our nation great.

In the same respect though, somthing does need to be addressed about today's immigration issues...building a fence IS NOT the answer ya know??



very true statement. but people always forget we're talking about ILLEGAL IMMIGRAGTION. i'm all for legal immigration...i'd love to have people from other countries with talent and marketable skills come here-that way they can contribute to society by making innovations in the medical field, or starting a profitable business. but at some point we have to be realistic...we can't accomodate everyone who wants to live here...we only have so many resources and space. what's wrong with a fence or a wall? why is it so wrong for america to protect it's sovereignty and it's borders?

If you had people coming to your house constantly looking for food and shelter, eventually you're going to run out of room and patience. I Can't speak for everyone in this forum, but i have a family to worry about. I've got a baby boy that i'd rather send to private school because the public school system sucks. so what it comes down to is this: who do i care for more? my family, or a bunch of strangers that snuck in here?

My wife's friend (let's call him anthony) owns his own tiling business. I asked him what the hardest part of running his business was here in sunny california. his main problems were this:

-strict state and federal regulations (which i didn't get into because it's alot). for instance the prevailing wage rule. which basically means if he does work for the city he's got to pay workers the same rate as unionized workers.

-being undercut from contractors using illegal immigrant workers. you know, the guys you see hanging out in front of home depot. so how can Anthony, who has to follow all the rules, compete when other contractors are using super cheap labor? He's got a family to feed just like the guys who come here looking for work-he's got 2 daughters he's got to provide for...by the way Anthony is Mexican. i bet the majority thought he was a white guy. this is why i keep harping on going after businesses and contracters using illegal immigrants as labor.

[DALAZ_68]

very true statement. but people always forget we're talking about ILLEGAL IMMIGRAGTION.

so tell me, what was so legal about the immigrants that took the land from the natives ? ohh i get it, since the laws werent on paper, it doesnt matter, gotcha...


i'm all for legal immigration...i'd love to have people from other countries with talent and marketable skills come here-that way they can contribute to society by making innovations in the medical field, or starting a profitable business. but at some point we have to be realistic...we can't accomodate everyone who wants to live here...


i agree...but i agree in the sense that wether you got here illegaly or legally, become a citizen first and foremost, and give back to the country your in...if you dont, GTFO or i hope your ass doesnt make it here...simple


I've got a baby boy that i'd rather send to private school because the public school system sucks.

congrats...


so what it comes down to is this: who do i care for more? my family, or a bunch of strangers that snuck in here?
same here...but i understand were those with right intentions are coming from, in which i cant group everyone together...

[I LUV MY S13]

You are assuming that ALL 70% of American businesses are using illegal Mexicans as employees for your point to even be valid. Are you FUCKING stupid?

You are telling me that the way he has that written, it is not meant to glorify crossing illegally? You are really more retarded than your posts makes you out to be.

I thought this thread was about illegal MEXICANS, find me a average number for only MEXICAN women... so pull your dumb limp dick out of Dalaz and bend over and plug your mouth with it so you will quit talking.



Maybe this tells you something about the culture that is flooding over here and turning parts of the US into Mexico like MidnightSlide pointed out.

right, america has always been perfect




honestly, movies dont depict shit to me unless its an actual documentary or you sit down with someone who lived thru it...when it's a family member, itll hit more to the heart...

based on true story

It really all depends where you go, Sinaloa, the state Mazatlan is in is known for cocaine, trafficking, crime etc.
My parents live in La paz, Baja california which is directly across the sea of cortez from Mazatlan.
Sinaloa is notorious for drugs, if you come across the fairy from Mazatlan with Sinaloa plates and a policeman sees you,
its mandatory that you will be pulled over and searched, regardless if you did anything wrong or not.
Most of the borders in mexico/US or surrounding cities are places you dont want to visit. They're sort of the pit of mexico and central america everyone who doesnt make it gets stranded there.


and the whole thing about the daughters... lol
sounds like Prostitution and it is normal everywhere.

But I have never in my life been to a bar or club in mexico and had some lady some lady try to pawn off her daughters on me just because she wanted to introduce me in hopes that I would take them home with me.

If you liked Mazatlan I encourage you to visit La paz. You'll love it, and if you need a place to stay let me know ill hook you up, my parents have two homes and one is real close to the beach and all the night life and for the most part its alway empty.


as far as Illegals and Imigrants
I not a citizen, I am a permanent resident all my ish is legit.
I have been here for 16 years now and my citizenship paperwork is just not going through.
I pay my taxes, I am employed and have always been, Im not depleteing the system. LOL
ive met people born here, non immigrant, who are on "disability" or "unemployment" working under the table, depleting the system and they dont feel theyre doing wrong because they are american. is this wrong? is this a right because this is their country and they feel they have a birth right?
The whole system is twisted and this will be an ongoing problem forever.
ehhhh whatever im over it.
This thread is going no where.

nah it wasnt a prostitution thing it was more like "hey your rich heres my daughter marry her, give me give me"

many places are like that, michoacan, sinaloa, aguas calientes(so i heard)

mazatlan was amazing

yeah this issue is an endless circle

Dont tell me you are serious.


serious

70% of business owners may be small privately companies or incorperations, but they certainly do not produce 70% of total production in the nation. Don't let those entry level business classes fool you, big business runs america.


Why not put up some sources since you're the resident name caller?

Define pointless. I'll never EVER be a propoent of cutting military funding. We're already involved -- it's not as easy as 'pack up and bounce' as many peole think it is. The logistics in moving even just a BRIGADE into and out of theater can easily take months. Trust me, I'm pretty well versed in military movements...


Sure it's a huge amount of money, but look at some of the other wars, and then compare them to today's inflation rates...you "may" be surprised to see that they are all very similar. Lets face it, to be the best, you gotta spend the most - that nearly applies to everything in life. Sure we could cut tons of corners and ride around in Jeeps without armor, but I'll be the first to say 'get fucked' if I had to drive that versus my M1114 ya know?



Not disagreeing at all my man - MANY people often forget that our nation was founded on immigration, and tolerance for all kinds and religions. That's what makes our nation great.

In the same respect though, somthing does need to be addressed about today's immigration issues...building a fence IS NOT the answer ya know??

(Same can be said about healthcare reform....reform does not be ENTIRLY revamp...just fix what we have!)

small businesses:
Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
Employ half of all private sector employees.
Pay 45 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
Have generated 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs annually over the last decade.
Create more than 50 percent of nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).


my cousin is in Iraq and he thinks they're not really fighting for anything out there


i thought we were already the best

[steve shadows]

This is such a politically hot topic.

It's soo crazy how hot it has gotten these days lol

[I LUV MY S13]

This is such a politically hot topic.

It's soo crazy how hot it has gotten these days lol


hell yeah..

[Touge Noob S13]

serious




You have to be retarded to judge a country you dont know much about based on how it was depicted in a movie.

[I LUV MY S13]

don't know much about?

i'm from there
been there PLENTY of times
watch their news cuz thats all my mom watches

depicted from a movie?
try using google(kidnapping, mexico) all you need
based on true events
i just gave a personal story

you seem to be retarded

i stated the movies to give you a broad idea of what its like in some areas

[Touge Noob S13]

don't know much about?

i'm from there
been there PLENTY of times
watch their news cuz thats all my mom watches

depicted from a movie?
try using google(kidnapping, mexico) all you need
based on true events
i just gave a personal story

you seem to be retarded

i stated the movies to give you a broad idea of what its like in some areas


Ive been there many times myself. Most of my relatives are in Guadalajara (one of the largest cities in Mexico) and another nearby town. Me and my cousins have been around almost all of Guadalajara and never saw anything too bad. Worst thing I have seen there is the discrimination againts people from Oaxaca.

[I LUV MY S13]

Ive been there many times myself. Most of my relatives are in Guadalajara (one of the largest cities in Mexico) and another nearby town. Me and my cousins have been around almost all of Guadalajara and never saw anything too bad. Worst thing I have seen there is the discrimination againts people from Oaxaca.


thats dope i'm from guadalajara too...most of jalisco is coo..only thing ive seen there is big ass dogs dead in the middle of the streets haha

[upsdude]

so tell me, what was so legal about the immigrants that took the land from the natives ? ohh i get it, since the laws werent on paper, it doesnt matter, gotcha...

everytime i hear this argument i just shake my head and laugh. that happened hundreds of years ago whether it was right or not isn't relevant anymore. we're talking about america's borders today 2010. are you suggesting that you'd rather have anyone who isn't of a certain descent should be forced to leave? or are you saying you'd like to have california restored as a province/territory of mexico? because that point of view is basically saying control of the country should be returned to the indians, since they were here first.

[WISH ONE]

thats dope i'm from guadalajara too...most of jalisco is coo..only thing ive seen there is big ass dogs dead in the middle of the streets haha
Thats sad that all you could focus on was the dead dogs... lol welcome to Mexico the stray dogs are through the roof.
In La Paz there is a pretty wealthy canadian lady that dedicates her time to picking the dogs off the street giving them vaccines and finding them homes. Pretty noble occupation.

Ive been there many times myself. Most of my relatives are in Guadalajara (one of the largest cities in Mexico) and another nearby town. Me and my cousins have been around almost all of Guadalajara and never saw anything too bad. Worst thing I have seen there is the discrimination againts people from Oaxaca.
I love guadalajara! Although I was born in Cabo San Lucas most of my family is from Guadalajara as well. Its a wonderful city. By chance have any of you gone on the day trip to the tequila farms, or visited Tapalpa?

[I LUV MY S13]

Thats sad that all you could focus on was the dead dogs... lol welcome to Mexico the stray dogs are through the roof.
In La Paz there is a pretty wealthy canadian lady that dedicates her time to picking the dogs off the street giving them vaccines and finding them homes.


I love guadalajara! Although I was born in Cabo San Lucas most of my family is from Guadalajara as well. Its a wonderful city. By chance have any of you gone on the day trip to the tequila farms, or visited Tapalpa?


i'm sorry i couldnt help but notice fuckin dogs in the middle of the road haha

ive been Cabo San Lucas as well..i love the beach there

[sidedrifts13]

we cant do nothing to change it, unfortunately there is goods and bads about imigration mexicans work jobs that us ameriacans will not work, like at a fast food place or restaurants, or picking at fields or working for $40 bucks a day, they still have rights and yes teir is a bad apple here and there but most mexicans are chill and the girls are super sexy lol^pointless post

only reason i have a problem with illegal immigration because it is so fucking difficult for others to get in the USA legally and illegals just walk right in whenever.
But on the other hand id do the same exact thing had i been put in their situation. Gotta feed your family somehow when there arent jobs in your country

[sidedrifts13]

I have its super sick and they feed you shots the whole time, Im from Jalisco
Thats sad that all you could focus on was the dead dogs... lol welcome to Mexico the stray dogs are through the roof.
In La Paz there is a pretty wealthy canadian lady that dedicates her time to picking the dogs off the street giving them vaccines and finding them homes. Pretty noble occupation.


I love guadalajara! Although I was born in Cabo San Lucas most of my family is from Guadalajara as well. Its a wonderful city. By chance have any of you gone on the day trip to the tequila farms, or visited Tapalpa?

[ronmcdon]

everytime i hear this argument i just shake my head and laugh. that happened hundreds of years ago whether it was right or not isn't relevant anymore. we're talking about america's borders today 2010. are you suggesting that you'd rather have anyone who isn't of a certain descent should be forced to leave? or are you saying you'd like to have california restored as a province/territory of mexico? because that point of view is basically saying control of the country should be returned to the indians, since they were here first.

agreed, I think that idea is just messy.
Even if you accept it to be valid, there's just no end to it.

Take Mexico for example.
The US would have to give back Texas & other territories.
Mexico would have to give back territories to Guatelmala.
Mexico should give power back to Spain.
Spain should give back power to the Aztecs.
The Aztecs should give it back to whomever they took the land from
(because it's wrong, obviously).

You'd never get to the bottom of anything.

[HyperTek]

this thread is double sided, some people are against it, and than some people are for it because they in some way are related to it.

Come on guys, would you be happy if you got into a car wreck with an illegal *even if you know how hard it is and that he/she is working on becoming illegal*? Hell no, your still screwed in the situation.

If my asian relatives can wait years to get the green light and fly over the freaking sea, than surely the closer latin americans can wait a little bit and cross over.

[Touge Noob S13]

I love guadalajara! Although I was born in Cabo San Lucas most of my family is from Guadalajara as well. Its a wonderful city. By chance have any of you gone on the day trip to the tequila farms, or visited Tapalpa?

Never been to any of those two myself lol. Guadalajara is really awsome though.

[DALAZ_68]

This is such a politically hot topic.

It's soo crazy how hot it has gotten these days lol


werd...
You have to be retarded to judge a country you dont know much about based on how it was depicted in a movie.


you cant judge a country as a whole thru film, period...just like i cant judge an entire race/religion/country over something ive seen on film...



everytime i hear this argument i just shake my head and laugh. that happened hundreds of years ago whether it was right or not isn't relevant anymore. we're talking about america's borders today 2010.


shake your head and laugh, but it is relevant. its one of the significant factors that started the bad blood between both countries...


are you suggesting that you'd rather have anyone who isn't of a certain descent should be forced to leave? or are you saying you'd like to have california restored as a province/territory of mexico?
no, im suggesting to give the country that we stole from a greater respect, your right, this is 2010, we should be more civil to our fellow man, especially a neighboring country...

if the US and Mexico could just set the bullshit aside, sit down and just agree shits gone wrong on both ends
help each other more on prosecuting criminals
allow rightfull citizens the chance to move, im pretty sure shit wouldnt be the same as is right now...if both countries would be more respectfull to one another, things wouldnt be so bad...but hey politics and money is what rules the nation, and when you fuck with corperate americas money, your pretty much public enemy #1...

what would happen if mexico and the US were more open
effectively i think crime would go down, especially on the bordering areas in which the US and Mexico could work together to deport criminals back to there country, drug traffic could potentially drop...
but hey this is just what i think...





agreed, I think that idea is just messy.
Even if you accept it to be valid, there's just no end to it.

Take Mexico for example.
The US would have to give back Texas & other territories.
Mexico would have to give back territories to Guatelmala.
Mexico should give power back to Spain.
Spain should give back power to the Aztecs.
The Aztecs should give it back to whomever they took the land from
(because it's wrong, obviously).

You'd never get to the bottom of anything.

but why not atleast make bigger effort to repair the relations to both countries...

[ronmcdon]

Come on guys, would you be happy if you got into a car wreck with an illegal *even if you know how hard it is and that he/she is working on becoming illegal*? Hell no, your still screwed in the situation.



Wouldn't liability insurance cover that?

Even if that liability doesn't cover that though,
it kinda is a separate can of worms.

I recall a couple of years ago there was a petition in CA to determine whether or not illegals could obtain a legit driver's license.
It's not necessarily even an illegal driver thing.
If they cannot, then they prob wouldn't be able to buy insurance even if they wanted to.
In a way, the state makes it difficult for everyone by failing to effectively deal with the way things are.

To be fair, the state should also impose stiffer penalties for those driving without insurance or a valid lic.
You can have an 'out-of-state' person hit & run you,
and there would be little you can do about it.
(this happened to me when a FL resident destroyed my civc a few yrs back)
I think that's a semi-related, but separate legal matter.

[MidnightSlide]

ohh well then fuck Haiti too...or filipines, right? why should we help them out in there time of need...fuck that right?

just like it doesnt affect me whats goin on in your neighborhood,since i dont live there, i wont give a damn...sucks to hear though...



Hey, not to say that everyone else doesn't have their problems.. and I never said not to feel compassion for your fellow human beings. Some people have it ridiculously bad.. and you know what, it is not their fault. It is the fault of their country as a whole. But let's take something into consideration here:

If the good ol' US of A got so horrible to live in, that many of it's citizens decided to flee into the nearest country.. Would you deem that as an acceptable thing to do instead of try and clean up the corrupt government that caused it all?

By the way, are you so naive that you would go as far as to think that we don't have drug, prostitution, rape, murder, and economic chaos right here in our own country? You are placing the focus on these "poor" illegals. I don't buy it.



its funny though, we live next to a white woman, and she's the one who has dogs running a muck, filthy front yard, delapidated cars...yet our house, is beautifull, clean cut grass, beautifull home, hell my father even offered to cut her yard, and she said no...go figure...



Sure, every race has their trash.. and by no means am I classifying a whole race of people or every single person that comes through illegally in that stereotype. Some may be the cleanest and most motivated people that I have and will ever see in my life. It doesn't make what they are doing any less illegal and any less wrong.

[I LUV MY S13]

agreed, I think that idea is just messy.
Even if you accept it to be valid, there's just no end to it.

Take Mexico for example.
The US would have to give back Texas & other territories.
Mexico would have to give back territories to Guatelmala.
Mexico should give power back to Spain.
Spain should give back power to the Aztecs.
The Aztecs should give it back to whomever they took the land from
(because it's wrong, obviously).

You'd never get to the bottom of anything.

Mexicans are the combination of both spain and the indians now

some of my family is light skinned, some are dark

some people say i look white, others say you can tell i'm mexican..i'm light skinned, my brother is darker than me, my other brother is whiter


i'm personally glad the way things turned out, even though there was blood shed, war and others don't like it..this wonderful state is a part of this wonderful country and i would'nt want it any different

[ronmcdon]

but why not atleast make bigger effort to repair the relations to both countries...

Well there has been, & will be cooperation between the US & Mexico
(I am guessing you meant the US & Mexico when you said 'both countries').
Yeah certainly there's always more than can be done on both fronts.
They are neighbors after all.


Mexicans are the combination of both spain and the indians now

some of my family is light skinned, some are dark

some people say i look white, others say you can tell i'm mexican..i'm light skinned, my brother is darker than me, my other brother is whiter


i'm personally glad the way things turned out, even though there was blood shed, war and others don't like it..this wonderful state is a part of this wonderful country and i would'nt want it any different

Likewise many Americans are the combination of several ethnic groups.
Many have Native American blood in them (is that the correct PC term today?).

I just think it's impossible to draw the line on political barriers these days,
based on who used to own what, or on the basis of ethnicity.
Even Spain was ruled by the Moors (Morrocco) at some point.

[DALAZ_68]

Hey, not to say that everyone else doesn't have their problems.. and I never said not to feel compassion for your fellow human beings. Some people have it ridiculously bad.. and you know what, it is not their fault. It is the fault of their country as a whole.


and thats exactly what my father was tryin to get away from and succeded. he once told me how he was eating lunch in a small retaurant and maybe 50 ft away someone was shot cold blood...by military.

i could tell you dozens of more stories my father has passed to me, all fucked up, and all shit done by the country he had no choice to be born in...so he made the choice to come here and become a legal citizen...


But let's take something into consideration here:

If the good ol' US of A got so horrible to live in, that many of it's citizens decided to flee into the nearest country.. Would you deem that as an acceptable thing to do instead of try and clean up the corrupt government that caused it all?


personally i would stand in arms next to my fellow man and clean up the corrupt, though during lunch i randomly asked one of my bosses, and well lets just say, his answer, to you & me, would def be considered un american...


By the way, are you so naive that you would go as far as to think that we don't have drug, prostitution, rape, murder, and economic chaos right here in our own country? You are placing the focus on these "poor" illegals. I don't buy it.


no ofcourse not, but our prostitution/rape/murder isnt as condense as it is there. IM, placing focus on the illegals that can help this country, not all of them in general... but hey i guess my compassion is more open than others...then again, in the US, ive never seen an officer arrest and bitch slap a prostitute for not giving him head at a bar with all his other cop buddies, but hey, only cuz i havent seen it doesnt mean it hasnt happend in the passed...but hey its 2010, lets focus on the now right...even though it happened in 2009...


i grew up in public schools, i grew up in the whole raza, viva mexico BS...i grew up in schools that had gangs...yet im here...in my office, chillen after work, never been arrested, never done drugs, no crazy tatted body displaying all kinds of crazy shit...im me, another american realizing his dream, working hard, getting mine, and sharing with my fam...






Sure, every race has their trash.. and by no means am I classifying a whole race of people or every single person that comes through illegally in that stereotype. Some may be the cleanest and most motivated people that I have and will ever see in my life. It doesn't make what they are doing any less illegal and any less wrong.

im not here, to convince you that its not right, because it isnt, ill agree with you there...

whats not right is giving someone hope that you could come to this country, you scrape every penny you can, only to be told no, declined...
why? because since he's of lower class that all he'll ever be? because thats pretty much what happened with my pops...and he pretty much proved a country wrong...and im proud of him for that...he could have easily been just another guy infront of home depot, but no, he wanted better...people like that is who we need to give chances to in this country...not just those with money. and if you have money, consider yourself lucky you can afford to wait and pay for the things others die tryin to have or never see...

[MidnightSlide]

no ofcourse not, but our prostitution/rape/murder isnt as condense as it is there. IM, placing focus on the illegals that can help this country, not all of them in general... but hey i guess my compassion is more open than others...then again, in the US, ive never seen an officer arrest and bitch slap a prostitute for not giving him head at a bar with all his other cop buddies, but hey, only cuz i havent seen it doesnt mean it hasnt happend in the passed...but hey its 2010, lets focus on the now right...even though it happened in 2009...


i grew up in public schools, i grew up in the whole raza, viva mexico BS...i grew up in schools that had gangs...yet im here...in my office, chillen after work, never been arrested, never done drugs, no crazy tatted body displaying all kinds of crazy shit...im me, another american realizing his dream, working hard, getting mine, and sharing with my fam...







im not here, to convince you that its not right, because it isnt, ill agree with you there...

whats not right is giving someone hope that you could come to this country, you scrape every penny you can, only to be told no, declined...
why? because since he's of lower class that all he'll ever be? because thats pretty much what happened with my pops...and he pretty much proved a country wrong...and im proud of him for that...he could have easily been just another guy infront of home depot, but no, he wanted better...people like that is who we need to give chances to in this country...not just those with money. and if you have money, consider yourself lucky you can afford to wait and pay for the things others die tryin to have or never see...

A few things man:

1. Corruption is corruption... any way you look at it.

2. I agree that people SHOULD be able to live the dream, but to an extent. We are our own country, and we need to think about making it a better place for us.. not for everyone that wants to escape their own problems. I do think that there should be a relocation program where immigrants wanting to obtain citizenship should be placed in a vacant and not very populated state, and monitored closely, making sure that they work and attend school. The overpopulation in Southern California is absolutely ridiculous..

3. I think that it should be MANDATORY to learn English. Nothing gets me more pissed off than someone that comes to this country for a better life, and refuses to learn the language. I wouldn't move somewhere and expect people to cater to me. When the immigrants even THOUGHT about coming to America, the very first thing they did was learn the most English they possibly could. Nowadays people take this country for granted and treat it like it owes them something. I think that is absolute BS.

4. For people like you and your Father, I have the utmost of respect. I think that if you want to relocate somewhere and put the work in to improve your way of life as well as the way of life of the people around you, and do your part.. then you should have the right to make a choice on where you want to be. If everyone that came to this country were exactly like you and your Father, then there would be no problems outside of overpopulation issues, and that could be easily solved as long as people were willing to do what it takes to be here, even if that meant living in a "Geographically Undesirable" area. After all, beggars can't be choosers... right?

[I LUV MY S13]

people cant always stay in their country and try to fix things...that takes years and years, we ourselves are still in the process of improving..

[fortezza]

when i was applying for food stamps, they offer the food stamp to 27 different langauges other than American(english) . also at the dmv you can take the drivers test in 27 different langauges, but all the street signs are in American(english). but those useless facts are off topic.

what bugs me about illegal immigration is the people that came here, and legitimatly applied and passed citizenship are getting screwed by the weasels that feel they don't have to do things by the book. the other thing is all those illegal immigration advocates saying that illegals need to be granted rights, and that it would help the economy, thats bs.
floridians get pissed off at cubans, california gets pissed at mexicans.

If there is anything i do know, latinos, regardless of legality are some of the hardest working, most friendly people i know.

[DALAZ_68]

A few things man:

1. Corruption is corruption... any way you look at it.

2. I agree that people SHOULD be able to live the dream, but to an extent. We are our own country, and we need to think about making it a better place for us.. not for everyone that wants to escape their own problems. I do think that there should be a relocation program where immigrants wanting to obtain citizenship should be placed in a vacant and not very populated state, and monitored closely, making sure that they work and attend school. The overpopulation in Southern California is absolutely ridiculous..

3. I think that it should be MANDATORY to learn English. Nothing gets me more pissed off than someone that comes to this country for a better life, and refuses to learn the language. I wouldn't move somewhere and expect people to cater to me. When the immigrants even THOUGHT about coming to America, the very first thing they did was learn the most English they possibly could. Nowadays people take this country for granted and treat it like it owes them something. I think that is absolute BS.

4. For people like you and your Father, I have the utmost of respect. I think that if you want to relocate somewhere and put the work in to improve your way of life as well as the way of life of the people around you, and do your part.. then you should have the right to make a choice on where you want to be. If everyone that came to this country were exactly like you and your Father, then there would be no problems outside of overpopulation issues, and that could be easily solved as long as people were willing to do what it takes to be here, even if that meant living in a "Geographically Undesirable" area. After all, beggars can't be choosers... right?

agree 100%

i would also add immediate denial of entry to anyone with a record...you fucked up in your country, i dont wanna risk you fucking up here...

also anyone with Legal family in the states should be allowed to live with them , with still being monitored closely...

and thank you... and your right, beggars cant be choosers...

when i was applying for food stamps, they offer the food stamp to 27 different langauges other than American(english) . also at the dmv you can take the drivers test in 27 different langauges, but all the street signs are in American(english). but those useless facts are off topic.

what bugs me about illegal immigration is the people that came here, and legitimatly applied and passed citizenship are getting screwed by the weasels that feel they don't have to do things by the book. the other thing is all those illegal immigration advocates saying that illegals need to be granted rights, and that it would help the economy, thats bs.
floridians get pissed off at cubans, california gets pissed at mexicans.

If there is anything i do know, latinos, regardless of legality are some of the hardest working, most friendly people i know.

you right, its ridiculous... come here, know the fucking language...

[drftmark]

you might also want to widen your horizon to the illegals in this country, its not just mexicans...its all illegals, wether you see it or hear about it or not...

mind you, why is it that cubans are considered refugees, they leave there country as well...second they step on US soil there allowed here...why? cuz they cross bigger bodies of water? because they have a horribly currupt gov't? hmmm...



this thread is titled MEXICAN immigration thread, that is why I am only talking about Mexicans.

but just to entertain you, Mexico is by far the largest illegal invaders with at least 12,000,000 (and counting) illegals. Money sent back to Mexico from illegal immigrants in the US is Mexico's third largest source of revenue, so they support and encourage the invasion of our country.

Mexico doesn't have a problem with having a theme park to simulate crossing the border.

In Mexico, a Theme Park for Border Crossers - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1858151,00.html)



ohh well then fuck Haiti too...or filipines, right? why should we help them out in there time of need...fuck that right?

just like it doesnt affect me whats goin on in your neighborhood,since i dont live there, i wont give a damn...sucks to hear though...



Haiti and the Philippines got hit by natural disasters, people died, entire homes wiped out, they actually need aid.

Mexico doesn't NEED help. Mexico can help Mexico. They are just fucking up the US system.




err...last i checked, per history, part of the US was mexican owned... the US brought a war in 1848 that made CA what it is today. its funny, Immagrants, came to this country, tyranized the natives, called it there own. were all fucking immigrants, no matter how you see it...white yellow black brown, all the same shit in one pot.


Cool history lesson, but that was hundreds of years ago...

We need to just do what the Mexican government does with their southern border to Guatemala.
Down on the Mexican/Guatemala border the Mexican feds damn near shoot on sight at Guatemalans that try to enter Mexico illegally.

We should start doing that and just leave the bodies as a deterrent. I know this may sound fucking brutal to some of you, but that is basically what we need to start doing if we want to get anywhere with this problem, and hey, Mexico doesn't have a problem doing it. All this diplomatic crap we are doing has gotten us no where, and in fact hurt the country even more.

I believe so many of you are missing the point that it is ILLEGAL TO CROSS INTO THIS COUNTRY!!!! It doesn't matter how "poor" they are, or how "bad" they have it over there, IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. They need to stay in their viva la Mexico and make their country suitable to live in if they want a better life, or come here legally. *edit* After all, when you brought up your history lesson, I should point out that the original immigrants had a fucking horrible time getting started here, shit was bad, people were dieing, everyone was poor, but they were able to work together and make this entire country, so what is Mexico's excuse for being so shitty?

That is it. PERIOD. All of you people who are doing all these mental gymnastics trying to justify them coming here illegal ARE RETARDED. All of these "touchy" stories DON'T MEAN SHIT! IT IS ILLEGAL. /thread

I mean all of the things I said in the nicest way possible.

[Siphter]

I'm fine with them coming over, however I do agree with what someone said about criminal records (unless it was stealing food to feed family, been there done that, keep doing what you have to do).

same with learning the language, I don't care, I can't understand the deaf, the Japanese, the Chinese or any of the other numerous people that come here either looking for a better life or seeking legal asylum, so why should I care if I can't understand a Mexican, do you try to converse with who you think is a tan white guy only to hear him speak another language and suddenly you want to punch baby goats? why is such a thing important, English is lame anyway, I mean I rather have some grandes tetas in my face than boobies any day of the week.

sum it up: Mexican Gangs, screw off. Innocent Mexicans looking for a way out, you're ok. grandes tetas in muh face.

[WISH ONE]

you guys cant sit and argue and debate all you want, none of you will change anything that is currently happening with immigration.

Blow off all of your steam, tell your stories.
This thread or the situation isnt going anywhere and wont be.
America is a multicultural country and has been for a long time, part of the reason why our country is where it is today and is because of the all the other cultures that contribute to the bottom line and the bigger picture.
IMO with out all the immigrants, not just mexicans, but asian, euro, middle eastern, south american, hispanic etc. we'd be fucked.
maybe or maybe not but who really knows? thats the way I see it.
I am thankful i live in a place that is so diverse,
that everyday I can eat food from a different part of the world or see different cultures interacting and mingling.
i wouldnt have it any other way.
I love where i live but in a few years Ill join my parents in BAJA as well hahahaha.
its less stressful there.

[I LUV MY S13]

this thread is titled MEXICAN immigration thread, that is why I am only talking about Mexicans.

but just to entertain you, Mexico is by far the largest illegal invaders with at least 12,000,000 (and counting) illegals. Money sent back to Mexico from illegal immigrants in the US is Mexico's third largest source of revenue, so they support and encourage the invasion of our country.

Mexico doesn't have a problem with having a theme park to simulate crossing the border.

In Mexico, a Theme Park for Border Crossers - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1858151,00.html)



Haiti and the Philippines got hit by natural disasters, people died, entire homes wiped out, they actually need aid.

Mexico doesn't NEED help. Mexico can help Mexico. They are just fucking up the US system.




Cool history lesson, but that was hundreds of years ago...

We need to just do what the Mexican government does with their southern border to Guatemala.
Down on the Mexican/Guatemala border the Mexican feds damn near shoot on sight at Guatemalans that try to enter Mexico illegally.

We should start doing that and just leave the bodies as a deterrent. I know this may sound fucking brutal to some of you, but that is basically what we need to start doing if we want to get anywhere with this problem, and hey, Mexico doesn't have a problem doing it. All this diplomatic crap we are doing has gotten us no where, and in fact hurt the country even more.

I believe so many of you are missing the point that it is ILLEGAL TO CROSS INTO THIS COUNTRY!!!! It doesn't matter how "poor" they are, or how "bad" they have it over there, IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AT ALL. They need to stay in their viva la Mexico and make their country suitable to live in if they want a better life, or come here legally. *edit* After all, when you brought up your history lesson, I should point out that the original immigrants had a fucking horrible time getting started here, shit was bad, people were dieing, everyone was poor, but they were able to work together and make this entire country, so what is Mexico's excuse for being so shitty?

That is it. PERIOD. All of you people who are doing all these mental gymnastics trying to justify them coming here illegal ARE RETARDED. All of these "touchy" stories DON'T MEAN SHIT! IT IS ILLEGAL. /thread

I mean all of the things I said in the nicest way possible.


yes, it is very nice to shoot people

US Illegal Immigration Explained - Profits and Poverty, Social Security and Starvation (http://usliberals.about.com/od/immigration/a/IllegalImmi.htm)

[DALAZ_68]

per above ^

SUMMARY

The equation to explain the whys of illegal immigration into the US is simple:

Add: Widespread abject poverty and starvation in Mexico after US corporations relocated their cheap-labor plants from the US-Mexico border to Asia, and after Mexican banks and telecommunications were privatized, creating dozens of instant billionaires and plunging millions into poverty.

Add: An extremely porous, under-enforced US-Mexico border.

Add: US employers anxious for more profits, and willing to exploit the poverty and fears of illegal immigrants to do so.

Add: The federal government anxious to curry favor with , and garner votes from, business owners and the Hispanic community...thus, willing to under-enforce borders and immigrations laws, and ignore illegal hiring by employers.

Add: The Social Security Administration dependent on taking in $7 billion annually of contributions from illegal immigrant workers who will never receive benefits from the system.

THE RESULT: Millions of illegal immigrants working for low wages and in poor working conditions, grateful for "scraps to fall from the US table of prosperity," per Dr. Groody.

Wealthier US businesses, and a much-richer Social Security Administration, neither which reimburse local and state authorities and taxpayers for the costs (education, health care, law enforcement and more) associated with illegal immigrants.

And a very angry US citizenry, who vilify immigrants for being here, rather than blaming the business owners who hire and exploit them, the US government which lets them enter the US and profits greatly from them, and the Mexican government which is happy to see them immigrate out of their country.

"Our nation virtually posts two sign on its southern border: 'Help Wanted: Inquire Within' and 'Do Not Trespass," says Pastor Robin Hoover of Humane Borders.

"Without the help of immigrant labor, the US economy would virtually collapse. We want and need cheap immigrant labor, but we do not want the immigrants."



drftmark - like i said before, im not here to change you opinion. i owe my good life to two wonderfull former illegals... wether you like it or not wont change it...

frankly supporting shooting someone on site, seriously...wow...please go and do it since youre so down...

and like i said b4, yeah it was hundreds of years ago, so was slavery, should we just forget about that as well or better ourselves by acknowledging what happened and using the past to effect the future...


and what you consider being as nice as possible ...well, w/e ive made my point... whether you like it or not its a valid one...i can understand your points being from personal experience... and dont worry i wouldnt even bother asking you to respect mine from my personal experience...

fuck anyone who comes here and only wants to take take take, but i welcome anyone who wants to prosper and give back to this country...

[MidnightSlide]

fuck anyone who comes here and only wants to take take take, but i welcome anyone who wants to prosper and give back to this country...

EXACTLY... Give back and treat it like the place that gives you the opportunities to life as good of a life as you are willing to work for..

I'm glad that everyone is keeping it pretty civil. This is a good discussion...

[upsdude]

what no one has brought up is this question...why don't the people of mexico revolt and bring about change in their own country? mexico has natural resources that it exports (oil) and it has a tourist trade. yeah i know the govt. is corrupt and the narco traficantes basically run the country. but i mean...our country was born from the citizens revolting against the british rule. i know i'm approaching this in a simplistic way but seriously....i don't get how people can come here, (whether it be by legal means or sneaking in) then all of a sudden demand their rights. why can't they use that anger and energy in changing their home country?

I know part of the answer is that we don't kill people who protest-but do you get what i mean? i see protests and people angry about immigrants rights...carrying mexican flags, being all about mexican pride. yet when it comes to taking their country back from the the bad guys...nothing. instead they want to come here, and force us to accommodate to their needs. want an example? how often do you hear "press 2 for spanish" when you call a company?

mexico actually can stand on it's own, and be prosperous. hell one of the richest men in the world is from mexico...carlos slim is his name i think. they already assemble cars and tv's for us, but if it's people allow themselves to be oppressed by the powers that be they will never realize the potential they have as a nation.

[MidnightSlide]

what no one has brought up is this question...why don't the people of mexico revolt and bring about change in their own country? mexico has natural resources that it exports (oil) and it has a tourist trade. yeah i know the govt. is corrupt and the narco traficantes basically run the country. but i mean...our country was born from the citizens revolting against the british rule. i know i'm approaching this in a simplistic way but seriously....i don't get how people can come here, (whether it be by legal means or sneaking in) then all of a sudden demand their rights. why can't they use that anger and energy in changing their home country?

I know part of the answer is that we don't kill people who protest-but do you get what i mean? i see protests and people angry about immigrants rights...carrying mexican flags, being all about mexican pride. yet when it comes to taking their country back from the the bad guys...nothing. instead they want to come here, and force us to accommodate to their needs. want an example? how often do you hear "press 2 for spanish" when you call a company?

mexico actually can stand on it's own, and be prosperous. hell one of the richest men in the world is from mexico...carlos slim is his name i think. they already assemble cars and tv's for us, but if it's people allow themselves to be oppressed by the powers that be they will never realize the potential they have as a nation.

It is always easier to stir shit up at someone else's house because you don't have to clean up the mess afterwards..

[upsdude]

that's true lol

[HyperTek]

I agree with you filiperuvian, imma guess that lack of education and just lazy is why the current generation of mexicans over there might not see it. Maybe some education on the younger generation over there could change things, but the influence is already there and passed on.

And i hear parts of mexico is really beautiful. I wouldnt mind visiting some day, but with all this negative imagery upon the country, i really have no desire to do so.

Lets not forget the drug cartel who beheads people who stand in their way, esp some popular singers have been killed *even women* for mentioning the wrong things in their songs.

[upsdude]

yeah it's getting really really bad down there. the govt. can't get a hold of the cartels because of the deep corruption. i was listmentening to a radio show and teh host mentioned that someone got killed and his face was sewn onto a soccer ball....jeez.

[ronmcdon]

I agree with you filiperuvian, imma guess that lack of education and just lazy is why the current generation of mexicans over there might not see it. Maybe some education on the younger generation over there could change things, but the influence is already there and passed on.

And i hear parts of mexico is really beautiful. I wouldnt mind visiting some day, but with all this negative imagery upon the country, i really have no desire to do so.

Lets not forget the drug cartel who beheads people who stand in their way, esp some popular singers have been killed *even women* for mentioning the wrong things in their songs.

the border isn't even that long a drive from most of socal.
I've gone to tj and rosarito a couple of times the past few years for cheap (but great) tacos, lobster, beer, etc.
It's really not that bad.
just remember to bring your passport.

If you are skeptical just drive straight down to rosarito for the weekend or whatever.

[I LUV MY S13]

I agree with you filiperuvian, imma guess that lack of education and just lazy is why the current generation of mexicans over there might not see it. Maybe some education on the younger generation over there could change things, but the influence is already there and passed on.

And i hear parts of mexico is really beautiful. I wouldnt mind visiting some day, but with all this negative imagery upon the country, i really have no desire to do so.

Lets not forget the drug cartel who beheads people who stand in their way, esp some popular singers have been killed *even women* for mentioning the wrong things in their songs.

exactly..alot of them feel like there is nothing to revolt against..maybe?

there are alot of nice people out there who don't seem to have an issue, rich and poor

[I LUV MY S13]

yeah it's getting really really bad down there. the govt. can't get a hold of the cartels because of the deep corruption. i was listmentening to a radio show and teh host mentioned that someone got killed and his face was sewn onto a soccer ball....jeez.


supposedly political officials are getting involved too...who knows?

[drftmark]

frankly supporting shooting someone on site, seriously...wow...please go and do it since youre so down...



Did you not see that Mexico, the country you have pride for is doing the same thing?

Why don't the Mexican people stand up for themselves and make a difference in their own country? That is the saddest part of this whole immigration problem, is watching this entire culture of people not stand up for themselves in their own country. Fleeing the problem instead of fixing it. Shit gets tough, you got to deal with it, not just run away from it. It is a pity to see this highly regarded Mexican macho race not have the courage to stand up for themselves. When I say Mexican race, I am not referring to anyone in this thread or any Mexican-American person, so please do not get offended.

[DALAZ_68]

Did you not see that Mexico, the country you have pride for is doing the same thing?

Why don't the Mexican people stand up for themselves and make a difference in their own country? That is the saddest part of this whole immigration problem, is watching this entire culture of people not stand up for themselves in their own country. Fleeing the problem instead of fixing it. Shit gets tough, you got to deal with it, not just run away from it. It is a pity to see this highly regarded Mexican macho race not have the courage to stand up for themselves. When I say Mexican race, I am not referring to anyone in this thread or any Mexican-American person, so please do not get offended.


when did i say i had pride for mexico the place?, im USDA home grown American sir, im proud to have my fathers mexican heritage and values, but im not the type to be at any protest bitching and moaning that my home country is in chaos... fuck that shit.

youre right they should...but see everytime ive gone, ive only been to the places that you would never see on T.V. when the ones who are suppose to be there to protect you are the ones helping the bad ones...people have been publicly executed on town squares for fucks sake...its always easy to JUST talk about it, and to have an opinion about something that hasnt affected you... i give its affected you in one way, do i condone the cholo bullshit no, but thats bad parenting, period, you cant make me see it as an immigrant thing, because wtf is the KKK...and nazi lowriders, rowa...etc whites, white gangs, formed decades ago, b4 any of this immigration "problem", and that shit developed from bad parenting, period.

Gangs are development of failed household and poor decisions, not just immigrants, yes i agree spanish ethnicity does make a large portion of it, but i wont agree to is that were the only ones with the problem.

last time there was a group in my fathers village that wanted to rise up (they were around, in the 20's about 10 or so people) that wanted to change the situation, they wanted better for there future, needless to say the second the currupt officials got wind of it...all 3 girls were brutually beaten and raped, the guys had the privates and tounges cut off 2 of the guys who fought back were executed...doubt you even heard anything about that in any newspaper or news channel.

the fact is, the majority of mexico that is pretty much dirt poor, are the ones that live in constant fucking fear for there lives the second they even mention or try organinzing something...do deny that they have small glimpse of happiness, no...but pretty much much the main thing to worry about day by day is how there gonna eat that day...hence there work ethic, they know there is work somewhere that gurantees them a safer tomorrow, food, and shelter...fuck yes there gonna go for it, period...


do i deny that the US doesnt have curruption or anything of the sort, no, id be stupid to think that...but the US is ruled by the corperate dollar, whilst most of mexico is ruled by fear poverty...if you have money in mexico, you have no reason to bitch and moan and want to come here, you still fear of where to go in certain places, but not as much as those who if killed and disposed of no one would question it...

i dont condone it, its wrong, but i wouldnt stop someone from tryin to live a btter life and getting his/her citizen ship...if its someone who wants to rape the country i live in, you bet your ass ill deport them myself...

America has the habit of getting seriously involved when it seriously affects our freedom and the way of life that we have...

the fact that this has been an "ongoing problem" for years, and the border is still under staffed, and its a current day to day process, tells me that america, or atleast Corperate america, has no big issue with it happening, there getting cheap labor, getting to tax the labor that has unredeamable SSN, and making a bigger profit.

do i feel sympathy, yes, im human, and seeing as how im from the same ethnicity, it could have been me...thats the part that many people wouldnt be able to understand...

and your right, theres a big humungous difference between being born there, and being ethnicly from there...i dont deny that...it just hits closer to heart

[codyace]

small businesses:
Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
Employ half of all private sector employees.
Pay 45 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
Have generated 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs annually over the last decade.
Create more than 50 percent of nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).

It's quite obvious you're being a 'wiki-warrior' here and really don't understand what you're copy pasting....

GDP is a collective of all market production in the US, private and public, government and personnel. So go back and do some more google learning, you'l be amazed. Again, while most 'owned' companies are private (in any of the 3 basic forms) the real GDP movers are the public companies..hell public spending alone probably accounts for nearly half of all GDP figures...and that doesn't include producdtion!



my cousin is in Iraq and he thinks they're not really fighting for anything out there

I think Pepsi is better than coke, does that mean that's how it really is?

Being military myself, and spending over a year in Iraqi (OIF3) I will say that many days you will wake up and think 'what the heck are we even fighting for'...it's very secret secret amongst the brass ya know? Sure to you it may be a waste, but what would be the bigger waste...just saying "F IT" and leaving now, setting that nation up for a huge falling out, and then having to go back...or simply completing what we started? Either way, we're in it to win it at this point....pulling out without setting up something over there is like blowing money on a private room with a hooker and only getting a handjob.

[240KA]

http://giovanniworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/p621_preview.jpg

[datkwikracer]

Any one who is extremely to one side or the other is just plain wrong. If you're thinking "shoot em on site" you are an idiot. If you're thinking white people are dumb, this is the land of Mexico, then you're an idiot too.

Truth is, like someone mentioned in a post earlier, there are pros and cons to illegal immigration. It is not going to change, so deal with it, or move out of the country.

Like it or not Mexicans are here to stay and will eventually be the majority. Yes due to most Mexican families having at least 3 children. Yes due to Mexican teen girls having kids, whose kids will have their kids at young ages. And finally due to the illegal immigrants that will continue to come into this country.

Sure they're stereotypes, but behind most stereotypes there is some truth.

-Kind of like when I see someone switching lanes slowly without looking over their shoulder to see if there is a car in their blind spot. The first thing I think is middle aged Asian or someone on their cell. I must admit I am right about 80% of the time.

I am the son of Mexican parents. My dad came here at the age of 17 and my mom at 11 (both illegally now here legally). They met over here and did their part in increasing the Mexican population by having 4 kids. I am now doing my part with two more lil Mexicans.

In closing we are here to stay.

[theicecreamdan]

what no one has brought up is this question...why don't the people of mexico revolt and bring about change in their own country? mexico has natural resources that it exports (oil) and it has a tourist trade. yeah i know the govt. is corrupt and the narco traficantes basically run the country. but i mean...our country was born from the citizens revolting against the british rule. i know i'm approaching this in a simplistic way but seriously....i don't get how people can come here, (whether it be by legal means or sneaking in) then all of a sudden demand their rights. why can't they use that anger and energy in changing their home country?

Consider a small family considering revolt. Its a pretty big idea to consider and it requires breaking a lot of laws and a LOT of organization between people who may or may not share your point of view. Since this family is pretty serious about revolution they decide to do some research. When they google "revolution" they learn about this event that happened July 4, 1776 about 1500 miles to the north. A group of people signed this document that says "GTFO Britain."

This family is amazed, because this document doesn't say anything about "americans" or "whites" or "browns" it says "All men are created equal" and they realize its a whole lot easier to take a road trip and break in. Because to them it doesn't seem like they're breaking any laws to come in. From 1500 miles away the doors to american look like they're open.


i would also add immediate denial of entry to anyone with a record...you fucked up in your country, i dont wanna risk you fucking up here...


And what do you want to do with people coming here from countries that don't care enough to keep a record? Or what if the people have a "record" because they come from a corrupt country where its "illegal" to vote the wrong way, or say the wrong things?

If we can afford to shoot a bullet at somebody, then we can afford to feed somebody else. If we can afford to drop a bomb then we can afford a hospital to take care of people.

Yeah not all of this applies to Mexico directly, but they are all human and deserve to be treated the same, and maybe they even deserve a break.

What if we redirected all of our anger to compassion and took a few minutes everyday to give half a shit about somebody else? What if we put aside the actions that have happened in history and moved towards the way things were intended to be? We have the technology and the means to move beyond anger, hatred, war.

Take all the money we waste on keeping people out, I imagine that money could build schools and pay bilingual teachers. We could focus it on real criminals. We could take care of sick people.

[SlideWell]

i say build a wall. they can only dig so much before they get caught on the other end.

[quentinchan]

I love mexicans!!! They make the world go around (at least America). They work hard at jobs that American won't do. They make awesome Mexican food. Better yet, they wash my car for a awesome great value

[Silviaoneday]

You guys should do some reading!! California is going half ass bankrupt because of immigration!! Just read some stats you decide.

Illegal Immigration Facts & Statistics (http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Illegal_Immigration_Facts_&_Statistics/index.shtml)

[kandyflip445]

I'm all for immigration. A ton of people got here from other countries (like everyone) and everyone is decendants of someone that was an immigrant.

We need a Mexican border Ellis Island. w00t.

[erik05v]

people need to chill yeah i knw mexicans need to stop crossing so many over here illegaly but at least a high percent of them are trying to better themselfs im tires of seeing all these lazy white bums on the side of the freeway begging for money to just get drunk when down the street there would be a mexican trying to make money selling flowers or fruit not begging idk its just my :2c:

[theicecreamdan]

Schwarzenegger: $42B deficit weighing down California
Schwarzenegger: $42B deficit weighing down California - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-15-schwarzenegger-california-deficit_N.htm)

"Amnesty for illegal immigrants will cause costs to increase significantly from $10.4 billion a year to $28.8 billion...The Bottom Line. This report has focused on only the fiscal impact of illegal aliens at the federal level. "
Illegal Immigration Facts & Statistics (http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/Illegal_Immigration_Facts_&_Statistics/index.shtml)

So for the entire country illegal immigration accounts for what would be aproximately 25% of California's deficit. Therefore you can't say using your information that this is the cause of California's being fucked.

Lets talk about things that cost a lot of money.
As of July 2009, DOD’s average monthly obligations for contracts and pay were about $10.9
billion, including $7.3 billion for Iraq, and $3.6 billion for Afghanistan.
(http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf)

Bank bailouts
Automaker bailouts
Health care costs have been rising for several years. Expenditures in the United States on health care surpassed $2.2 trillion in 2007, more than three times the $714 billion spent in 1990, and over eight times the $253 billion spent in 1980. (http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358)

The study says that illegals lower working wages because they are for the most part uneducated. Amnesty will cost us money because illegal families will be able to access more programs to help, presumably including access to education. So 15 years following amnesty we should start to see increased education levels which will lead to less children, less crime and less drains on society.

"When girls go to school, they marry later and have fewer, healthier children. For instance, if an African mother has five years of education, her child has a 40 percent better chance of living to age 5. A World Health Organization study in Burkina Faso showed that mothers with some education were 40 percent less likely to subject their children to the practice of genital mutilation. When girls get educated, they are three times less likely to contract HIV/AIDS." (Alter: The Importance of Educating Girls - Newsweek.com (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160073))

and everybody should go back to making higher wages. (Or corporations will move more production into Mexico under NAFTA and flood mexico with even cheaper corn products making mexican families even more desperate to work for shit wages, driving more jobs out of the US and more people in.)

When Chevy's start coming with a lifetime supply of good guacamole, stable gas prices a garage and decent healthcare maybe I'll start to give a shit about how much money Jose the Plumber is costing me.

[Otto347]

Id rather have mexicans than hatians...........

[theicecreamdan]

Id rather have mexicans than hatians...........

Yeah, because its not like we're responsible for their poverty.

[joeapple8]

if we kick em all out who will cook my fake chinese food for me @ panda exp, pf changs, and mr chaus =[[[

[SexPanda]

A migrant worker can be credited with the shredded lettuce we get in bags. Just interesting info lol. Imagine a taco without shredded lettuce?!

As long as they are going through legal channels to enter the country, I see no problem with immigrants from anywhere. But at least try to learn english. I mean, if I move to China, I wouldnt be upset if they didn't have English written underneath Mandarin on menus and signs lol. I'd attempt to learn it.

[ono]

all i have to say is i hate the bad side of races, they ef everything up, and are usually illegal

asian good, fob/ gangsta wannabe bad
mexican good, beaner that speaks no english, doesn't want to learn, and stand on the side of the street all day or flicks shit in your face in vegas, bad and annoying

white (which i am part white part jap) good, hillbilly hick redneck, soooo bad

and blacks, racy or not, good but straight up hood rats that do nothing but look for fights, join gangs to shoot people they don't know, and just straight up dont do shit for anyone but themselves, bad...

no as far as the illegality, mostly it's just asia and mexico, but i just don't see why we have to protect people that don't contribute to our community

"but they work for cheap!" why do you think our economy is so bad? and OMG HOW DID WE EVER LIFE ON OUR LIVES WITHOUT CHEAP LABOR?! .... we did, without them, shit was good, get over it

[moocowmoo]

when did i say i had pride for mexico the place?, im USDA home grown American sir, im proud to have my fathers mexican heritage and values, but im not the type to be at any protest bitching and moaning that my home country is in chaos... fuck that shit.

youre right they should...but see everytime ive gone, ive only been to the places that you would never see on T.V. when the ones who are suppose to be there to protect you are the ones helping the bad ones...people have been publicly executed on town squares for fucks sake...its always easy to JUST talk about it, and to have an opinion about something that hasnt affected you... i give its affected you in one way, do i condone the cholo bullshit no, but thats bad parenting, period, you cant make me see it as an immigrant thing, because wtf is the KKK...and nazi lowriders, rowa...etc whites, white gangs, formed decades ago, b4 any of this immigration "problem", and that shit developed from bad parenting, period.

Gangs are development of failed household and poor decisions, not just immigrants, yes i agree spanish ethnicity does make a large portion of it, but i wont agree to is that were the only ones with the problem.

last time there was a group in my fathers village that wanted to rise up (they were around, in the 20's about 10 or so people) that wanted to change the situation, they wanted better for there future, needless to say the second the currupt officials got wind of it...all 3 girls were brutually beaten and raped, the guys had the privates and tounges cut off 2 of the guys who fought back were executed...doubt you even heard anything about that in any newspaper or news channel.

the fact is, the majority of mexico that is pretty much dirt poor, are the ones that live in constant fucking fear for there lives the second they even mention or try organinzing something...do deny that they have small glimpse of happiness, no...but pretty much much the main thing to worry about day by day is how there gonna eat that day...hence there work ethic, they know there is work somewhere that gurantees them a safer tomorrow, food, and shelter...fuck yes there gonna go for it, period...


do i deny that the US doesnt have curruption or anything of the sort, no, id be stupid to think that...but the US is ruled by the corperate dollar, whilst most of mexico is ruled by fear poverty...if you have money in mexico, you have no reason to bitch and moan and want to come here, you still fear of where to go in certain places, but not as much as those who if killed and disposed of no one would question it...

i dont condone it, its wrong, but i wouldnt stop someone from tryin to live a btter life and getting his/her citizen ship...if its someone who wants to rape the country i live in, you bet your ass ill deport them myself...

America has the habit of getting seriously involved when it seriously affects our freedom and the way of life that we have...

the fact that this has been an "ongoing problem" for years, and the border is still under staffed, and its a current day to day process, tells me that america, or atleast Corperate america, has no big issue with it happening, there getting cheap labor, getting to tax the labor that has unredeamable SSN, and making a bigger profit.

do i feel sympathy, yes, im human, and seeing as how im from the same ethnicity, it could have been me...thats the part that many people wouldnt be able to understand...

and your right, theres a big humungous difference between being born there, and being ethnicly from there...i dont deny that...it just hits closer to heart

:werd:

i say build a wall. they can only dig so much before they get caught on the other end.

that would be great, but there must be a reason to why the government hasn't done it... some can say "the economy is bad and we cant afford it"...ok thats nice. but how about when the economy was not bad? did we build up the borders? no.... we didnt. why? because IMO the cheap labor is too valuable for companies and the government to care. they are saving more in opposed to building a wall. and then once the wall is built. losing all the cheap labor. (or the majority of it). that is just what seems like common sense to me.

as for the people who say "fix shit in your own damn country you stupid *insert racial slur here*" there has been small attempts here and there. but guess what happens... they all get killed. the government doesnt give two squirts of piss about the people. why would people try to do that instead of face death.

that being said let me ask you this. if you went to your local city counsel meeting, and the instant you said or did something the counsel members dont like... they kill you in cold blood in front of everyone setting an example out of you... im damn sure MOST people would think twice about saying or doing anything against them at all. its a very "my way or the highway" type situation.

besides the fact the government doesnt give a shit about the people. anyone who thinks the government is truly trying to reach a resolution with the cartels, come on... really.. i hope you realize thats a great thought. but money talks. bribes and being bought out is no different than here. there are two reasons why the people in mexico would help the cartels as opposed to saying no. 1)hold a gun to you or one of your family members heads and say. "do this or die"... or 2) they get payed more and treated better from the cartels ring leaders and runners than from the government.. the drug trade is much too lucrative here in the u.s. and mexico for there to be an end theres too much money in that market. its much like the closing the border idea.... if the government REALLY wanted to dont you think they would? of course they would! do they really NEED to fund some of the programs they do? no... but its all priority. and obviously their priorities are not in homeland security but in shipping troops out all over the world....and someone may say "its your government so take control of it" how often does that happen. i would like to know when someone small made his or her way to the top or higher levels of government to make a great change. i mean. in most cases its purely because you know someone who can put you in that position. and someone trying to work their way up form citizen to something more will quickly learn that it is nearly impossible. i learned this the hard way years ago going to different meetings with people on the board of directors of los angeles county. city cousel members. and representatives of the mayor. etc. those people themselves told me nearly the same thing i just said.... and i was in shock. (mind you i was 12) but it really is a difficult thing to do..

and for the people who say "do it the legal way" i agree. that should be primary. of course. but last time i checked (told by family in mexico) the wait and processing time was like 7 years because of the high demand to get the fuck out of there. and even then. the cost to payoff people to not have to wait 7+ years to leave. IF they dont lose your paperwork. is a hell of a lot more than it is to pay a coyote to sneak you over here.

but if you think about it..... if you need to steal bread from a store to feed your family... would you? of course. another example.... the dust bowl.. they couldnt do a damn thing with their land, so they left because there was no government aid, no possibilities of work or recovery. so they left. and what happend when they reached their destinations? people hated them... so its nothing new even for americans who relocate to other parts of america... so they need to move from somewhere with no opprotunity, to at least somewhere where there is at least a little chance.

YES i understand immigration will not be reformed, but i do believe debates like these are good for people to better understand situations relevant to all of us today. if you can stop them crossing then stop them. if not. then what can you do?

[SUPERSTAR]

That is a lot to read.

So I will say this, I am elegal in all countries.

Carry on.

[ericcastro]

Illegal however, I would shoot every single one that tried. Taking advatage of all our shit costing the taxpayers millions

Maybe you should aim that gun over at the Tobacco industry first.
Medical is where our money goes.
And the majority of our medical problems come from things we doto ourselves.

Plus, everytime an immigrant buys something, he pays taxes unless he is in oregon.