question about s14 stance GR+Pros.

[sskracing]

hi, i have a set of stance GR+ Pros,
and i was just wondering if anyone running these coils has to lower the pre-load in the rear to tuck 17s.
i have the ride height adjustment all the way down, and the pre-load "snug" against the spring,
so i was just wondering what you all have done to go lower.
also, in the front i have the height adjustment all the way down to where its touching the pre-load adjusters,
so how would i go lower in the front? order shorter springs?
thanks in advance:]

[AS240]

i wanna be lower aswell,
anyone?

[Wabash9000]

If the preload is just snug don't loosen it. while in theory you could lower the car more by changing the preload, if you were to do it then you would have a gap in the between the spring and the upper perch when the shock is fully extended which could make for a dangerous driving situation.

If you wanna go lower, buy a different set of coilovers.

[WA2GOOD]

To go lower than you are, just get the next size shorter springs, you'll be good to go.

[mothon]

If you add more preload its not going to lower the car. All you can do now is droop the springs.

[AS240]

If you add more preload its not going to lower the car. All you can do now is droop the springs.
yeah, loosen the pre-load right
just wondering what i could do beside that.
i know that some people are extremely low on stance coils is why i was asking.

[mothon]

Do you have any pics that show how low you are now?

[revat619]

for the front, take some of the collars out. For the rear, i dunno how you're not low enough. How low are you now? I had these on my old S14 and the lips of my wheels touched the rear fenders and it wasn't even maxed out.

[^fraktal^]

yeah just to echo what revat said

for the fronts you can take the locking collar(s) out if absolutely needed. i would still only run the standard recommended preload though. then you could lock the spring perch collar and lower mounts together. and just for piece of mind you could thread one of the removed locking collars back on under the lower mount to keep that locked in place too.

for the rears i don't understand how you're not lower enough already. even with the spring preload set as recommended you can go super low just by the lower mounts.

i would not droop the springs at all. it will take away some of the damper travel. you can go stupid low already without even touching the springs. the reverse is also true. do not preload the springs a shit ton and tighten them up just so you can thread the lower collars up a bit higher. that will make the coils ride like garbage and be bouncy as fuck.

try this:
set the front springs just barely snug between the upper perch and the lower perch collar. then do 2 full turns on the lower collar, lock it in place and call it good. any height adjustment from there is done through the lower collar only.

for the rears set the main spring just snug between the upper perch and the lower helper spring perch. now with the helper spring tighten that lower collar just snug enough to keep the main spring captive. when the coilover is installed and the suspension is at full droop the helper spring should be uncompressed. when the car is on the ground with it's own weight, the helper springs should be fully compressed. again any height adjustment should be made just through the lower mount.

if you still can't go low enough then...you're already too low...

[sskracing]

for the front, take some of the collars out. For the rear, i dunno how you're not low enough. How low are you now? I had these on my old S14 and the lips of my wheels touched the rear fenders and it wasn't even maxed out.
yeah, like i said, i have the heaght adjustment maxed out, and the pre-load snug in the rear.

Do you have any pics that show how low you are now?
ill post up some pics later.

yeah just to echo what revat said

for the fronts you can take the locking collar(s) out if absolutely needed. i would still only run the standard recommended preload though. then you could lock the spring perch collar and lower mounts together. and just for piece of mind you could thread one of the removed locking collars back on under the lower mount to keep that locked in place too.

for the rears i don't understand how you're not lower enough already. even with the spring preload set as recommended you can go super low just by the lower mounts.

i would not droop the springs at all. it will take away some of the damper travel. you can go stupid low already without even touching the springs. the reverse is also true. do not preload the springs a shit ton and tighten them up just so you can thread the lower collars up a bit higher. that will make the coils ride like garbage and be bouncy as fuck.

try this:
set the front springs just barely snug between the upper perch and the lower perch collar. then do 2 full turns on the lower collar, lock it in place and call it good. any height adjustment from there is done through the lower collar only.

for the rears set the main spring just snug between the upper perch and the lower helper spring perch. now with the helper spring tighten that lower collar just snug enough to keep the main spring captive. when the coilover is installed and the suspension is at full droop the helper spring should be uncompressed. when the car is on the ground with it's own weight, the helper springs should be fully compressed. again any height adjustment should be made just through the lower mount.

if you still can't go low enough then...you're already too low...
ill prolly remove 2 collars in the front then. my helper springs are removed, what do u mean by "the reverse is also true".

[^fraktal^]

ill prolly remove 2 collars in the front then. my helper springs are removed, what do u mean by "the reverse is also true".
the reverse is true meaning you don't want to overly loosen and droop your springs, just like you don't want to overly tighten the springs and run excessive preload. both method can be used to lower the car but neither are recommended.

so if you removed the helper springs, why did you buy the pro version coilover then?

i still don't understand how you're not low enough.

[sskracing]

the reverse is true meaning you don't want to overly loosen and droop your springs, just like you don't want to overly tighten the springs and run excessive preload. both method can be used to lower the car but neither are recommended.

so if you removed the helper springs, why did you buy the pro version coilover then?

i still don't understand how you're not low enough.
well i was told that the helper spring is only for a more comfortable ride, is that not only what its for?
i will pist up pictures and specs when i get out of college a little later.
they are s14 gr+pros, and i pilled my fenders in the rear a good 1.5" or so, and im on 17s.
the rears are just bottomed out on the height adjustment..idk, i want it lower tho.

[^fraktal^]

no that's not what the helper springs are for. time to search and read up some more on your coils. there are a lot of people on here with slammed stances. you should be able to figure it out too.

post up some pics when you can, maybe you're doing something wrong.

[sskracing]

no that's not what the helper springs are for. time to search and read up some more on your coils. there are a lot of people on here with slammed stances. you should be able to figure it out too.

post up some pics when you can, maybe you're doing something wrong.
damn...i feel dumb now.
im about to go look for my helper springs that i took off.
i didnt think about how it all works..
it lets the piston sit in a better position in the shock body, and allows for your ride height to be more adjustable..
thanks fraktal.
ill post pics up very soon.

[sskracing]

well this is how low my stance GR+Pro coilovers can go without helper springs.
ill be putting them back on asap!
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0206.jpg

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0197.jpg

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0198.jpg
and i will be getting kouki skirts and an oe zenki se lip very soon.
these wheels will be for sale soon aswell.

[97240TB]

I have the +PRO SS-D's on my 97 and I'm 2 inches lower right now and have a TON of room to go lower. I don't know if the lower perches are the same (I assume they are.) So maybe you should read into it more or give stance a call....

[sskracing]

I have the +PRO SS-D's on my 97 and I'm 2 inches lower right now and have a TON of room to go lower. I don't know if the lower perches are the same (I assume they are.) So maybe you should read into it more or give stance a call....

well, its the helper springs that i took out of the rear making the car not go any lower...
the helper springs make the susp. droop more in the rear when installed, allowing the car to sit lower..
so im pretty sure that is my only problem.

[^fraktal^]

well, its the helper springs that i took out of the rear making the car not go any lower...
the helper springs make the susp. droop more in the rear when installed, allowing the car to sit lower..
so im pretty sure that is my only problem.
you still don't understand what the helpers are for. they have nothing to do with ride height. they HELP keep the main spring captive on its perches when the suspension is at full droop (uncompressed ALL the way).

those pics do nothing for us to see how you actually have the coils installed and adjusted.

[sskracing]

you still don't understand what the helpers are for. they have nothing to do with ride height. they HELP keep the main spring captive on its perches when the suspension is at full droop (uncompressed ALL the way).

those pics do nothing for us to see how you actually have the coils installed and adjusted.
they add about 2.5" of ride height adjustmetnt, because they sag when fully compressed..
when i put them back on i will have to raise the height adjustment about 2-2.5" for it to sit like it did with no helper springs.
ill post pics of the coils later.

[^fraktal^]

what the fuck are you talking about. you can completely compress the helpers in your own hands. what do you think the weight of the car is going to do to them?

[revat619]

they add about 2.5" of ride height adjustmetnt, because they sag when fully compressed..
when i put them back on i will have to raise the height adjustment about 2-2.5" for it to sit like it did with no helper springs.
ill post pics of the coils later.

That doesnt make any sense.

The helper spring has NOTHING to do with ride height.

The helper spring allows the shock piston to be placed in the optimal position within the shock body, increasing rebound stroke, and maximizing articulation on cars with minimum suspension travel - the stance website.

This is a pic of my old Stance's

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/revat619/rideheight.jpg

For the rears: You see the red arrow. That bottom mount is the only thing you need to be messing with. Spin it up as high as you want. This will lower the car.

You see the blue arrow. That's the helper spring. See how flimsy it is? It has nothing to do with ride height.


For the fronts: You see the green arrow. That bottom mount is the only thing you need to be messing with. Again, spin it up as high as you want. This will lower the car.

You see the red arrow. Those are the locking collars. Now if you spin the mount up to the point that all 3 of the collars are touching (like the one on the left) and its still not low enough for you, then take one or 2 of them out and lower it some more.

[marveluz]

You should be able to go much lower than the pictures. i was tucking 18s (wheels itself not just tires) w/o even touching the springs just the bottom mounts.

[revat619]

You should be able to go much lower than the pictures. i was tucking 18s (wheels itself not just tires) w/o even touching the springs just the bottom mounts.

Exactly! So was I! I dont think he using the bottom mounts.

[sskracing]

Exactly! So was I! I dont think he using the bottom mounts.
ok..
mine look EXACTLY like yours.
i know what the ride height adjustment is,
i know what the pre-load adjustment it.
bottom of the line is,
if you remove the helper springs and snug the pre-load up to the spring
it wont go as low.
i just installed my helper springs..now its lower.
pre-load isnt loosened up or anything,
i am adjusting every bit of the ride height through the bottom mount.

when i first bought these coils a friend of mine told me that the helper springs were only for comfort,
now i know what they are really for...so theyre back on my car now.
and yes, with the helper springs on, my car goes lower.

[^fraktal^]

GR+ and GR+ pro are the exact same coilover. EXACT same threaded damper body, EVERYTHING. pro's come with a helper spring and a perch. you can buy those separately from stance and install them on a set of regular gr+ if you want. they both go just as high and just as low as each other...

[AS240]

what sskracing is saying is that when you don't have helper springs, you have to have the preload up enough to where the spring is snug against the perch, but when you do have them, you can lower the preload and still have the main spring snug up top which = car being lower.

[^fraktal^]

what sskracing is saying is that when you don't have helper springs, you have to have the preload up enough to where the spring is snug against the perch, but when you do have them, you can lower the preload and still have the main spring snug up top which = car being lower.
omfg...

when the car is set on the ground the main spring still compresses the exact same with or without the helpers installed. i will say it a different way; when the car is on the ground, the main spring length is still the same with or without the helpers installed.

with the helpers installed (correctly) on the coil, and the car set on the ground, the helpers will be completely compressed ok. but all it's doing at this point is physically taking up some additional distance on the threaded part of the damper. the helper's are still locked in by the SAME lower spring perch collars, just as if the main spring would be without the helpers installed! you can bottom out the lower mounts the exact same distance with or without the helpers installed too.

now with the car in the air, and the suspension at full droop, you would have to install the helpers and have them completely compressed before they would even begin to preload the main spring. now without helpers installed you would preload the main spring the exact same way, by adjusting the lower spring perch. again, the only difference being the physical location of the lower spring perch on the threaded damper body. now if you are preloading the springs that much with helpers installed, why the fuck do you even have helpers installed in the first place?

just like what revat posted already. the helper spring INCREASES REBOUND STROKE. do you understand what that means?

increases = make an addition to something
rebound = when the suspension is uncompressing
stroke = the total length the damper piston can travel

in the bold 3 words and in my lamen's definitions i don't see anything about it affecting preload and making the car lower.

[sskracing]

ok fraktal,
so if you lower the pre-load on a coilover,
you dont think that the ride height will be effected?

[^fraktal^]

you mean drooping the springs, yes that will affect ride height and lower it. you're now going to be riding on the bump stops a lot more because you just decreased the damper's travel. if the damper did rebound all the way the spring will become loose in its perches and i would hate to think of all the bad things that might cause.

if you already maxed the lower mounts as low as you can, then tighten the spring by preloading them, you will actually be raising the car back up and gaining more damper travel. this can also negatively affect your ride quality however. i think you will find it's super bouncy and the car doesn't settle back down very well, or fast.

neither of those methods are recommended, and frankly not needed, when you have a fully threaded damper.

i already told you how to set the correct preload for all the springs in post #9. any height adjustment after that needs to be made through the lower mounts only, with OR without your helpers installed.

[sskracing]

ok fraktal,
the helper spring fills in the space where pre-load was loosened
thus lowering the car,
similar to lowering the car by the pre-load(trust me, i would never do that)
and what you just said about decreasing the dampers travel, thats what the helper spring does in a sense.
and like i said before,
my car is fixed now by adding my helper springs.
and my pre-load is snug, NOT drooped.

[^fraktal^]

if you got your car lower and that's all you're after, then hooray...

[chibo]

Chiming in to say I tucked 17's under the fenders more than an inch in the back with room to go on the Stance GR+ Pros. Something is wrong here.

Either way, they ride like dogshit.

[revat619]

Since you insist on fucking with your pre-load, do it. Shorten the life of your dampers. I dont care. This thread is retarded. :rolleyes:

[sskracing]

Since you insist on fucking with your pre-load, do it. Shorten the life of your dampers. I dont care. This thread is retarded. :rolleyes:
did you not read my last post?
i did not touch my fucking pre-load.
my coilovers are set up exactly like that picture dude,
i have owned plenty of coilovers,
i know what the ride height adjustment is..
if you have gr+Pros,
and you remove your helper springs,
they wont go as low.
end of story.

[khmerguy618]

well this is how low my stance GR+Pro coilovers can go without helper springs.
ill be putting them back on asap!
http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0206.jpg

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0197.jpg

http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq35/sskracing/100_0198.jpg
and i will be getting kouki skirts and an oe zenki se lip very soon.
these wheels will be for sale soon aswell.

I'm quite a bit lower than that and i still have room to drop it w/ the lower perch adjustment. But then again I'm running swift springs, but they're just a tad shorter than the stock stance ones. You should be able to dump it to the rim.

[sskracing]

its already fixed,
i can go much lower now,
thanks.