240sx - 300zx rivalry

[thedeviousone]

i have a s14 equiped with a SR, my friend has a TT 300zx, he thinks the zx is superior in every way, i on the other hand believe the 240 can rival the zx, what do u guys think

he thinks the zx handles better, can be made faster, and looks better, i tend to disagree on all accounts

[nrcooled]

Handles better- depends on driver. I think my 240 can out handle a 300 w/ my current setup but modified to modified the 240 can be made to handle like a dream. And the z is no slouch with a propper setup.

Made to be faster- any car can be fast with the right amount of money

Looks better- all opinion (I am biased toward the s13 FB)


Just FYI- I saw a z32 TT get dyno'd at 247hp and 262lb/ft (slightly modded) it was a 96 and it is well known in the z community that the '96s were overrated

he1l, I could give a TT a run for it's money at the track

These are all complete opinions. I have driven one z32 and it was N/A so I can't really give too much detail on them.

[mrmephistopheles]

teh '96s were detuned a bit.

[thedeviousone]

i just want my car to be able to hang with his car on the highway, i guess with a worked up bottom end and a nice sized turbo i could do that, what nipps my budd is what would happen if he got a single turbo conversion, would i be able to compete?

[nrcooled]

do you have a s14 SR or s13 SR. If you have a s14 SR then basic bolt-ons and boost will keep up w/ him.

Most s14 SR dyno around 250-260hp w/ bolt-ons that's enough to hang w/ him

[thedeviousone]

s14, honestly i want to destroy whatever he brings to the table

i love the 300zx, but this man needs to be taken down

[FRpilot]

well, in my opinion, handling on both car are great. 240sxs can probably be better since it is a lighter car. 300zxs are 3000 lbs cars, but of course 240s are around 2600 so you can probably do some weight reduction on the 300 to get it down maybe to 2800 and it should be close. dont count out the 300zx' suspension wise because they are still nice handling cars.

the 300zx vg30 engine would be easier to make way more power than an s3 engine with less money. 600hp is obtainable w/o much stress with the v6 while 400hp is pushing it on a 4 cylinder car. i think the vg30 gets the nod here.

looks wise, i have always liked the way 240sx look but looks are everyone's opinions. 300s look nice too, but the 240 styling fits my taste more.

ultimately, i think the handling and power comes down to the weight of each car and who is willing to have a more gutted car. the 300 can make lots of power but is heavier while the 240 sr can make power as well and is lighter, but probably can't make as much power as the v6 engine as easily.

[hotrodman]

But if you put a rb25det in an s13 you can put six banger .vs. six banger. That would be a cool thing to watch. :p

[mrmephistopheles]

FRPilot: If you've even seen/worked on a 600+hp Z32, you'd realize that it's ALOT of work to get that much power from a VG30DETT. It's about the same amount of work to get that power from SR or VG, either way.

As far as 'pushing it' is concerned with the SR, 600-700 is pushing it, and there have been quite a few tuning companies to take SRs into that power.

Take for instance, JUN's Hyper Lemon Silvia. Stock bodied S14 that ran ~8.89seconds in the quarter. It pushed around 700hp. It was powered by an SR.

[Jsquared]

well, in my opinion, handling on both car are great. 240sxs can probably be better since it is a lighter car. 300zxs are 3000 lbs cars, but of course 240s are around 2600 so you can probably do some weight reduction on the 300 to get it down maybe to 2800 and it should be close. dont count out the 300zx' suspension wise because they are still nice handling cars.

BZZZT. wrong. the 300ZX twin-turbo is closer to ~3500 lbs... that's a LOT of mass to overcome in the handling department. and don't forget that having the Silvia/240SX performance too close to the Z's performance is one of the reasons we didn't get the SR here in the first place...

[Jim96SC2]

If everything else is equal heres how itll turn out.

Short straight-aways, lots of tight turns, lots of weight shift it'll be the 240SX by a margin.

Long straights, sweepers, little weight shift it'll be the 300ZX.

[FRpilot]

i think the original poster was talking in general terms between a moderitely modified 300 and 240 with an sr for the street.. he was contemplating between a 300z and a 240 with an SR, not an RB. of course, if it was an RB series engine, it would be easier for the 240 to make power and being lightweight it would definetly beat out a 300zx in every category the poster mentioned about.

mrmeph, yea its true that 600hp is hard to push out of a 300z and a lot of work too. what i was trying to say is that the vg30 would be a lot easier to get horsepower from than the sr. maybe my numbers were exagerated so let me try again. it is easier to reach around 400hp with the vg30 than an sr20. although it can be done on both cars, i'm talking about mildly modding a car for the streets and the vg30 can give you that 400hp without suffering from reliability issues. an sr pushing 400hp will likely not last as long because it is running near its limit for a mildly modified engine.

large amounts of hp can be gained from either engine. SRs probably have been tuned to 800HP and VGs can probably be tuned to make over 1000HP, but thats in terms of hardcore race car building. the average car enthusiast probably doesn't have enough money or doesn't want to spend that much money to make his daily driver into a race car. by 'pushing it' i was talkin in terms of 'stressing an engine' and that 400hp was a lot of HP for an SR or any 4 cylinder engine to be making and be runing relible for a long time. maybe i used the wrong wording by saying 'pushing it' i just thought about it and when you say 600-700hp is 'pushing it' that makes sense. i assume 700 hp, maybe 800hp is the max that an sr will go without blowing up.

what im' trying to say is summed up by track racing. look at the nhra, nira, and many other drag races. they set different classes for different engine and buildups. there's a 4 cylinder class, 6 cylinder, and an 8 cylinder class. that's because a 8 cylinder engine is capable of making more hp than a 4 cylinder engine easier.

jsquared: i wasn't sure of the exact weight of the 300, but i was just trying to say that the 300 is a fat *** and weighs a lot.. i just said 3000 since that seemed like a lot, but if its closer to 3500 than that number supports my claim that 300s are heavy. i guess that's the same reason ppl never really wanted to modify mitsubishi 3000GTs. they were awd twin turbo beasts capable of making lots of HP but they were 4000lb hippos thus making the power to weight ratio not worth it... so thanks for supporting my point

[ca18guy]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
FRPilot: If you've even seen/worked on a 600+hp Z32, you'd realize that it's ALOT of work to get that much power from a VG30DETT. It's about the same amount of work to get that power from SR or VG, either way.

As far as 'pushing it' is concerned with the SR, 600-700 is pushing it, and there have been quite a few tuning companies to take SRs into that power.

Take for instance, JUN's Hyper Lemon Silvia. Stock bodied S14 that ran ~8.89seconds in the quarter. It pushed around 700hp. It was powered by an SR.

Not really, 600 HP at the flywheel of a VG seems almost standard for an upgraded turbo 300ZX :/ Not saying its not alot of work, but its damn near just bolt on parts. In contrast, 600 HP in a SR is near its peak and I would assume hard as **** to acheive.

[mrmephistopheles]

ca18guy: I agree that it's mostly bolt-on parts, but with either SR or VG, you're still doing internals. That, and it takes ALOT of upgrades to get a TTZ to that power level. I'd definitely say there's less fabrication involved with high HP levels from a VG than there is from an SR. (also, the 600hp figure wasn't supposed to be from the SR - that was ~400hp.)

[sykikchimp]

If both cars were stock, the 240sx is a more capable road course car. NOT taking into consideration power.

As far as power goes.. 300zx's are expensive as hell to get anything done on them. If you want to change the turbos, you basically have to pull the freaking engine. The VG is capable of slightly more power with stock internals than the SR. I've seen several 500hp VG's with stock bottom end. Phase2motortrend has a 475hp stock bottom end sr right now they are playing with. 400 is a more realistic common number though. If your not considering money, the 300zx probably has a higer output capability.

On a road course though, I would put my money on a 400hp 2400lb 240sx over a 3200lb 600hp 300zx. It would be close either way though. ( I lightened them up a bit, cause most people that track their cars do lighten them up a bit.)

couple other comments:
I've read about 900+ hp SR20's in Japan. They all sport Tomei 2.2L stroker kits, and T51 turbo's..

i believe it's pretty rare to find a single turbo conversion on a 300zx b/c they are V6's, and the engine bay is cramped as hell already.

[nrcooled]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
stroker kits, and T51 turbo's..

i believe it's pretty rare to find a single turbo conversion on a 300zx b/c they are V6's, and the engine bay is cramped as hell already. [/B]

Not to mention the fact that they have two separate throttle bodies and you would have to make equal length tubing to each of the throttle bodies to make sure one bank wasn't getting more air then the other. Or fab up a larger single throttle body attached to a custom intake manifold

I had a little fun w/ a TT on some twisties in a industrial area near my house and maybe it was driver but he couldn't hang. Very fun though:D Still would like to own one. Anyone want to let me take theirs out for a spin:confused: :p

[thedeviousone]

this turned out to be a very interesting topic, thanks for all your thoughts, i guess its going to come down to the drivers abilities, and between me and my friend, im definetly the better driver.

i cant wait to tell him the news about him trying to do a single turbo conversion on his zx haha!