Dg-5

[SebasS13]

Im now on my second s13 and am getting the DG-5 coils, are they worth it??? Before i ran the Stance GR+ Pro's and were real nice. I just wanted to get other opinions.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

They're the new version of Kei Office essentially. If you can afford them, buy them.

I know Dousan will chime in and swear by them; for good reason, too.

[GripTerror]

Eh... buy some real shocks like konis or something and save yourself money as opposed to overpriced JDM brand name stuff.

[ThatGuy]

Eh... buy some real shocks like konis or something and save yourself money as opposed to overpriced JDM brand name stuff.

So, instead he should buy some German shocks? Overpriced EDM parts are WAAAAY better than overpriced JDM parts. :loco:

What is he using for springs then? Perches?

Either add something constructive, or don't comment.


OP, DG-5's have had some good reviews around here. I'm sure you could search around and find some information on them.

[pink godzila]

I had them in my s13 before... LOVE IT!!!

SURE you will LOVE IT TOO!!

[GripTerror]

For about 1000$ you can have yourself some koni yellows which will beat most of the jdm stock otu there.

For about 2000-2500$ you can have yourself double adjustable konis which will be unmatched by any of the off the shelf jdm shocks out there.

This of course meaning eibach springs and/or ground control+eibach springs.... and camberplates/tophats. The springs you get from Eibach will also be gauranteed their rates while as tested most of the jdm stock come with questionable rates (exception being swift springs)

Just sayin'

[usdm180sx]

Don't listen to these people. I was lucky enough to score on some kei office xr's nib for $600. BEST deal evar. These coilovers absorb high speed bumbs like molasses and keep the car stable like no other. DG5 are awesome.

[R33E8]

For about 1000$ you can have yourself some koni yellows which will beat most of the jdm stock otu there.

For about 2000-2500$ you can have yourself double adjustable konis which will be unmatched by any of the off the shelf jdm shocks out there.

This of course meaning eibach springs and/or ground control+eibach springs.... and camberplates/tophats. The springs you get from Eibach will also be gauranteed their rates while as tested most of the jdm stock come with questionable rates (exception being swift springs)

Just sayin'

I agree, you can also rebuild them yourself (if you know what you are doing) and fine tune them to exactly what you want.. You have a lot more flexibility going with Koni's.. There is a write up somewhere around here on how to build yourself a set.. Some guy in the marketplace is selling the fronts for a s13 for $200.. I'll be putting together a set for myself so I can get rid of these crappy Teins my car came with..

If you're ballin' you can try to get a set of Penske shocks :D..

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Okay, Norm is right, however, finding a pair of good condition, un-blown Kei Offices can be tricky.

Oh, and why would anyone wan to build coilovers? Just buy PBM, Stance, DMax, etc for that price.

[pandapoo503]

i'm thinking about picking up a set as well. all i've heard are good things about them. i'm sure someone will want to shoot down this argument: a large number of D1 drivers use them, and most of the d1 wins are by the those that drive with them. if the european shocks are so much better how come no one uses them? (just curious)

[R33E8]

i'm thinking about picking up a set as well. all i've heard are good things about them. i'm sure someone will want to shoot down this argument: a large number of D1 drivers use them, and most of the d1 wins are by the those that drive with them. if the european shocks are so much better how come no one uses them? (just curious)

Maybe those top D1 drifters get theirs for free through sponsorships? (just a guess) If that's the truth it seems like it works very well since people buy the shocks because they see the drifters using them..

If you look at acutal road racing series you don't see to many race cars using JDM brands.. I'm sure you can make your Koni's have the same characteristics as the JDM brand shocks if you think it will help..

Btw, Penske is an American brand and is pretty much the highest quality shock you can buy that isn't completely custom (IMO)..

[pandapoo503]

yeah they get them for free, but they win with them. i'm not saying the other stuff is crap, i'm sure it's great. and i'm sure those in the road racing series get them for free too (well some of them at least). i think (this is just my opinion) that the american and european suspension are more geared towards road racing and all that good stuff, while the japanese stuff might be more geared toward drifting (stuff like dg-5). if i were to pick up some coils for road racing i would definitely go with a european brand. at the same time though, look at the hks evo. that thing runs hks coils (not off the shelf i'm sure) and throws down some amazing times on the track.

[Chernobyl]

yeah they get them for free, but they win with them.

I'm sure the same drivers can win drift comps with Megan coilovers as well. It's all marketing.

[pandapoo503]

maybe. it'd be interesting to see the difference in how they drive with different suspension companies

[hOngsterr]

hey norm
get me some for 600
=]

[pandapoo503]

took me a minute to remember the name of road race coils i'd absolutely love to try: Moton Suspension.
but anyway back to topic for a drift coil i'm sure the dg-5 would be great.

[lflkajfj12123]

THIS SMELLS LIKE NICO

jesus christ shut up

[clark]

get whatever you can afford.

[s13 @ fullboost]

how much are you paying for them? obviously your getting them from drift speed seeing there the only vender who has them in the states. But I am not sure how much they charge what was the quote they gave you.

[tricky_ab]

how much are you paying for them? obviously your getting them from drift speed seeing there the only vender who has them in the states. But I am not sure how much they charge what was the quote they gave you.

The only other place I've seen them for sale is on RHD Japan...

[Brian]

95% of the people here just need coilovers to make the car lower and stiffer.

[Bubbles]

just need coilovers to make the car lower


Do they do anything else?

[Brian]

No, I don't think so.
It's best to get the bright colored ones so they will show up better when you take cell phone pics to post in your build thread on zilvia chat section.

[Bubbles]

I base all part decisions on color schemes alone.


That's a given.

[s13silvia123]

THIS SMELLS LIKE NICO

jesus christ shut up

LMAO

wordddddddddddddddddd

[Matej]

Wish someone would just make shocks that sit really low. I hate adjustability, and having to pay for it.

[Brian]

man, you have no idea how ridiculous it is that my front coilovers and inverted. I gotta reach under the car to adjust the dampers. INSANE

[95KA-Turbo]

I've ridden in a car with Kei Office coilovers, they ride like shit. I love the way my Fortune's ride. Seriously, they ride like my friend's 350Z with koni race shocks.

[codyace]

I've ridden in a car with Kei Office coilovers, they ride like shit. I love the way my Fortune's ride. Seriously, they ride like my friend's 350Z with koni race shocks.

So how long do you hafta support Fortune for those free ones on your car?

[SebasS13]

thanks guys for all the info.. id be using them for drifting and I just heard they were really good but wanted other opinions... and im getting the coils from a place in stanton.. great place to get parts!!

[rebornS14]

For about 1000$ you can have yourself some koni yellows which will beat most of the jdm stock otu there.

For about 2000-2500$ you can have yourself double adjustable konis which will be unmatched by any of the off the shelf jdm shocks out there.

This of course meaning eibach springs and/or ground control+eibach springs.... and camberplates/tophats. The springs you get from Eibach will also be gauranteed their rates while as tested most of the jdm stock come with questionable rates (exception being swift springs)

Just sayin'


DG-5's come with SWIFT springs. nothing but the best of the JDM.

i've own KEI OFFICE XR's and have been running them for over almost 5 years and i have no issues with them. love them to hell and i will replace them with DG-5's when and if they expire.

YES DG-5's are the new KEI OFFICE but after seeing the construction of the DG-5 they are a "better" version of the KEI Office. like the first guys saids, if you can afford them, why the hell not.

dont listen to the NAZI and go JDM.

[jspecusa]

koni are great shocks, but people kept forgetting reason
people pay for expensive coilovers is all the testing and engineering.
to me a shock and spring has to be properly matched and not put together
and see how it works.

Which coilover should I get?


From our experience the most important part for a coilover is the ability to be rebuild and also at a reasonable cost.
on a street car, most coilover won't last over 2 years(depend on driving style and also road condition of where you live).
our last advice is that you get what you paid for, so don't expect $1,000 coilover to be as good as $2,000 ones.
the key is to find what you "need" 90%+ of people will never need D1 or Racing level coilovers.

[drftwerks]

if you have to ask about them, you prob can not use them to full advantage.

[xBlastoisex]

just buy them.

[95KA-Turbo]

So how long do you hafta support Fortune for those free ones on your car?

I don't have to go out of my way to promote anything. If they were shitty coilovers I would just keep my mouth closed and not say anything. The fact is I was genuinely surprised and impressed with how well they feel on the car.

[anton1o]

DG-5 the best of the best in the JDM world..

Have ridden in a car with 10/8 DG-5 on medium settings and it felt purely amazing like we were on 8/6 on the very softest of settings they are worth every dollar if you can afford it.

[codyace]

koni are great shocks, but people kept forgetting reason people pay for expensive coilovers is all the testing and engineering.
to me a shock and spring has to be properly matched and not put together
and see how it works.

See, this is the wrong impression to have. Just because it comes in a shiney box with a fancy name, doesn't not mean it should be better (automatically).

A proprely consturcted housing is worth it's wait in gold. The rest of the parts are NO BETTER than anyhting that the 'JDM' coilovers have.
Coilover tubes? wow, all the same.
Springs? I guess Eibach spings aren't good enough as the JDM ones?
Camber plates? I mean, hard to screw that up right?
Top hats? Vorshalg knows a thing or two about suspensions

Etc etc. So yes, you are very correct. Spenidng 1000 dollars on a 'entry coilover' may not be wise, but in 3-4 years you'll need to buy two sets. Yuck.

Or you go out and spend 2200 bucks on a nice JDM coilover, and have the same result...

...or you spend some time and Build a easily upgradeable suspension (koni or a bilstein insert setup) and have it last and be easily upgradable.

Either way, you gotta spend money for quality (wehter it be a JDM coilover or a koni). saying a custom setup is 'not good' because 'it's not r+d' is rediculous...


From our experience the most important part for a coilover is the ability to be rebuild and also at a reasonable cost.
on a street car, most coilover won't last over 2 years(depend on driving style and also road condition of where you live).
our last advice is that you get what you paid for, so don't expect $1,000 coilover to be as good as $2,000 ones.
the key is to find what you "need" 90%+ of people will never need D1 or Racing level coilovers.

What's expensive about rebuilding a Koni setup? Blow a strut, you simply get a new one (hell can get them from Summitt, SHox, anywhere) and replace your parts. No waiting on some 'jdm' company to get back to you, no worry if it's the right part, etc etc etc.

I don't have to go out of my way to promote anything. If they were shitty coilovers I would just keep my mouth closed and not say anything. The fact is I was genuinely surprised and impressed with how well they feel on the car.

I'm not disagreeing with how they feel, but what are you comparing them too? Don't take this as me being an ass, but it's hard tog et past the part where your car (which is a great looking car btw, i love it) has their stickers on the side of it ya know?

[mmdb]

So, instead he should buy some German shocks? Overpriced EDM parts are WAAAAY better than overpriced JDM parts. :loco:

DG-5s are about $2,580.00 according to Driftspeed :tweak: You can get a set of ASTs, KWs, or Konis for bout the same price AND double adjustable, or cheaper.


What is he using for springs then? Perches?

Hyperco or Eibach. You can purchase perches as well.

They're the new version of Kei Office essentially. If you can afford them, buy them.

For $2580 you can buy better coils. Do some research on shock dynos. That's all you pretty much need to know to make a better decision on the type of shocks you'll be interested in or stay away from.


Oh, and why would anyone wan to build coilovers? Just buy PBM, Stance, DMax, etc for that price.

Chances are if you can buy a quality damper (ie koni) you can have them rebuilt and/or revalved according to the particular spring rate you are running.

i'm thinking about picking up a set as well. all i've heard are good things about them. i'm sure someone will want to shoot down this argument: a large number of D1 drivers use them, and most of the d1 wins are by the those that drive with them. if the european shocks are so much better how come no one uses them? (just curious)

There's drifters that run adjustable dampers that run about $6k+ (penske, KW, etc). Also what R33E8 said.

took me a minute to remember the name of road race coils i'd absolutely love to try: Moton Suspension.
but anyway back to topic for a drift coil i'm sure the dg-5 would be great.

KW and AST build a pretty good damper for a reasonable price. I believe they're having a 15% off sale at Stillen.

[ThatGuy]

DG-5s are about $2,580.00 according to Driftspeed :tweak: You can get a set of ASTs, KWs, or Konis for bout the same price AND double adjustable, or cheaper.



Hyperco or Eibach. You can purchase perches as well.

I know what is available out there. My comment was directed at the vagueness of his post. He did nothing more then tell the OP that "JDM sucks" with his post. That was not helpful at all. However his post seemed to indicate that Koni shocks alone were all the more you should ever need.

By challenging his opinion with my post, it caused him to come back and add useful information.

Your quoting me, in an attempt to make your own point, is just redundant.

[ManoNegra]

DG-5s are about $2,580.00 according to Driftspeed :tweak: You can get a set of ASTs, KWs, or Konis for bout the same price AND double adjustable, or cheaper.


friend (cheeky14 here) has ASTs on his S14 with
the Z32 spherical shock mounts we made
(he was able to get them with Z32 shock mounts in the rear easily)
ride quality was very good
he had a small issue with the rears and
Perfomance Shock (AST authorized dealer) took care of the issue quickly
and if he ever cared to he can upgrade them to external reservoirs or revalve them cheaply
I'm sure DG-5s are nice - don't know personally - but I doubt they have that kind of support

edit: mmdb, I'm talking about Arvin - he liked the ride quality of your car so much which is what prompted him to go with AST

[Om1kron]

Oh, and why would anyone wan to build coilovers? Just buy PBM, Stance, DMax, etc for that price.

To remain on topic...

Dousan had DG-5's on his last s13, he swears his life they're the best things ever.

as far as why would you want to build your own coil overs that you can have rebuilt and re-valved out here in the us with a quick turn around time. Yeah I dunno... If my jics blow, I'm fucked and JIC is here in the US.

[94_240sx]

DG-5 the best of the best in the JDM world..


I have a Drift Tengoku magazine with shock dyno test. They tested 4-6 different coilovers and DG-5 came out TOP. Graph was damn impressive. Yes, it's the best in the JDM world for sure.

Oh! Wait. The magazine came out late last year or early this year, so I can't guarantee that DG-5 is still the best.

I'll post some pics, if I can find.

[mmdb]

I know what is available out there. My comment was directed at the vagueness of his post. He did nothing more then tell the OP that "JDM sucks" with his post. That was not helpful at all. However his post seemed to indicate that Koni shocks alone were all the more you should ever need.

By challenging his opinion with my post, it caused him to come back and add useful information.

Your quoting me, in an attempt to make your own point, is just redundant.

Ok. :ughd:

friend (cheeky14 here) has ASTs on his S14 with
the Z32 spherical shock mounts we made
(he was able to get them with Z32 shock mounts in the rear easily)
ride quality was very good
he had a small issue with the rears and
Perfomance Shock (AST authorized dealer) took care of the issue quickly
and if he ever cared to he can upgrade them to external reservoirs or revalve them cheaply
I'm sure DG-5s are nice - don't know personally - but I doubt they have that kind of support

edit: mmdb, I'm talking about Arvin - he liked the ride quality of your car so much which is what prompted him to go with AST

Oh yeah for sure. We went to SOW on Saturday. I haven't talk to him yet, but I'll give him a ring. ASTs are nice cause you can rebuild 'em, reservice etc and they seem to last pretty long daily driven :)

[Tearlessj]

I'm sure we all know that JDM coilovers are not as good as Konis, bilsteins, or any shock properly valved. There are companies that are exceptions though, such as Zeal (which use a bilstein shock). DG-5 may also be another exception. Honestly I would jump on Konis race with ground controls if it wasn't for the fact that they don't go low enough. My 240 Form>Function. On my autocross integra I am running Konis and its 100x better than my 240.

[GripTerror]

I didnt get into details because i didnt need to re-repeat myself what probably others have mentioned in other threads about konis/bilsteins/motons/whatever vs jdm shiny/taiwan/whatever coilovers.

Pros vs cons, price vs what you get, etc...

Silk roads and kei office coilovers have been put head to head to koni double adjustables and the konis were better in feel, valving, quality, durability, etc...

People just need to realize that popular jdm brands and shiny marketting are not the only way doesnt matter if it costs 5000$. Like most have already said... do some research.

Ya sure if u just wana slide and slam just get the jdm stuff cause thats its' main focus.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Fuck it, get Aragosta or Moton coilovers.

[usdm180sx]

I didnt get into details because i didnt need to re-repeat myself what probably others have mentioned in other threads about konis/bilsteins/motons/whatever vs jdm shiny/taiwan/whatever coilovers.

Pros vs cons, price vs what you get, etc...

Silk roads and kei office coilovers have been put head to head to koni double adjustables and the konis were better in feel, valving, quality, durability, etc...

Then it's a good thing that those of us who do own high end japanese coilovers don't care because we're too busy enjoying our cars. It's all about valving. Only people who drive their cars know this. And I'm the ultimate hard parker. :blah:

[usdm180sx]

See, this is the wrong impression to have. Just because it comes in a shiney box with a fancy name, doesn't not mean it should be better (automatically).

A proprely consturcted housing is worth it's wait in gold. The rest of the parts are NO BETTER than anyhting that the 'JDM' coilovers have.
Coilover tubes? wow, all the same.
Springs? I guess Eibach spings aren't good enough as the JDM ones?
Camber plates? I mean, hard to screw that up right?
Top hats? Vorshalg knows a thing or two about suspensions

Etc etc. So yes, you are very correct. Spenidng 1000 dollars on a 'entry coilover' may not be wise, but in 3-4 years you'll need to buy two sets. Yuck.

Or you go out and spend 2200 bucks on a nice JDM coilover, and have the same result...

...or you spend some time and Build a easily upgradeable suspension (koni or a bilstein insert setup) and have it last and be easily upgradable.

Either way, you gotta spend money for quality (wehter it be a JDM coilover or a koni). saying a custom setup is 'not good' because 'it's not r+d' is rediculous...

Yo are sooooo wrong. One thing you didn't address was valving. It's like having all the ingredients of a recipe but not knowing how much to put.

Companies are making 8kg/6kg springs on inverted monotubes all day long. Kei Office/DG5 valving is a company secret. You can get whatever setup you want with whatever amount of money. There are those whe choose to let the experts do the r & d and there are the DIY people.

Valving is what determines if a car can keep control over uneven road surfaces during critical moments. DG5 does this like no other. Control and safety > all

[McRussellPants]

Do some research on shock dynos. That's all you pretty much need to know to make a better decision on the type of shocks you'll be interested in or stay away from.

I could post 5 shock dynos and there is no chance you could pick the one that belongs on his car.

Chances are if you can buy a quality damper (ie koni) you can have them rebuilt and/or revalved according to the particular spring rate you are running.

so now that you've sent the Konis back and forth 2-3 times to get revalved, or spent the 300-500$ on the tooling for them to be legitimately end user serviceable are they still cheaper than letting DG-5 do the R&D?

There's drifters that run adjustable dampers that run about $6k+ (penske, KW, etc). Also what R33E8 said.

and a car with DG5s beat them this year.

KW and AST build a pretty good damper for a reasonable price.

AST 4200 kits out the door start at 2500$ without upper plates, If you wanted inverted the 5100s are gonna run around 2700$ for just the shocks, and I believe once you get into the 5300 with the external reservoirs its another 1000$ option.

just saying, your ideas on pricing are pretty skewed, the Koni's you're talking about for 400$ for a full set are the most entry level, and really only compete with the 1000$ area JDM coilovers. the 8000 series starts at 1500$ a shock.


That being said, Im trying to put a set of AST 4200s on the new car.

[McRussellPants]

PS.

when people talk about how good the US shocks are, all they're feeling is alot of low speed with the high speed dropping out (digressive)

so its really not a matter of which is better, its just a matter of the japanese companies prefer the way alot of highspeed feels.

[mmdb]

I could post 5 shock dynos and there is no chance you could pick the one that belongs on his car.

I'm making the point that there's mainly 3 different types of slopes to look out for. Digressive is what you want.


so now that you've sent the Konis back and forth 2-3 times to get revalved, or spent the 300-500$ on the tooling for them to be legitimately end user serviceable are they still cheaper than letting DG-5 do the R&D?

You sure those DG-5's are valved correctly for those springs on a given car? Could be. But as long as they supply a dyno chart you don't know what you're really buying.



and a car with DG5s beat them this year.

I could say the same thing about Moton, Ohlins, Koni shocks. What's your point?

AST 4200 kits out the door start at 2500$ without upper plates, If you wanted inverted the 5100s are gonna run around 2700$ for just the shocks, and I believe once you get into the 5300 with the external reservoirs its another 1000$ option.

Yes they are expensive. There's other routes such as KW that provide a pretty awesome shock.

just saying, your ideas on pricing are pretty skewed, the Koni's you're talking about for 400$ for a full set are the most entry level, and really only compete with the 1000$ area JDM coilovers. the 8000 series starts at 1500$ a shock.

I hear ya on that. Well made shocks are not cheap (I paid $5k for mine). But the OP is asking for DG-5s which I've seen for 2.5k. I definitely think you can find a much better shock for that price. If the developers of that shock will custom revalve according to spring rate changes, customer requirements, etc then it might be a good option. But if they're offering a 1 off rebuild then it will most likely not be a good bet for the long run.

And it yes it will save you money to buy good quality shocks the first time around. I paid 1k for my apexi basics, 1.7k for my apexi n1 pros (junk), and now my ASTs 4300s. You get what you pay for.

I think you'll like the ASTs.

[codyace]

Yo are sooooo wrong. One thing you didn't address was valving. It's like having all the ingredients of a recipe but not knowing how much to put.

Companies are making 8kg/6kg springs on inverted monotubes all day long. Kei Office/DG5 valving is a company secret. You can get whatever setup you want with whatever amount of money. There are those whe choose to let the experts do the r & d and there are the DIY people.

Valving is what determines if a car can keep control over uneven road surfaces during critical moments. DG5 does this like no other. Control and safety > all

Obviously. Just because I don't mention it doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what happens. We're running 800lb springs on a sentra on...I'd love to see any off the shelve coilover attempt that.

And who's to say D5G isn't just valving for basic weight, putting a nice dampner on them, and a generally accepted spring rate? I mean they oculd be testing the cars to see what works best, but they could easily be doing what I described as well.

I guess for my car (a track car) I just don't like the way the JDM coilovers feel or perform. Just my two cents. After 3 years of track days, 2 types of coilovers, I'm finally going with a Koni setup, and doing it right. All it took was setting up the Sentra's right (both with the Shigspeed setup and the others) for me to bite the bullet for the s14.

Another aspect of the route I'm going I enjoy, is quick ability to change what I don't like. No dicking arond waiting, no messed up orders...just change what I want and go.

I'm not saying DG5 isn't a good way to go...they may be the most super duper best coilovers ever in the whole wide world...the issue is, I don't drift, I dont' care how low my car goes. I like contact...hitting bumps at Lime Rock or Pocono, and having wheels lock up on me becuase the shitty JDM coils sucks is getting old. Ultimately speaking, if I'm gonna spend 2k on a suspension, Im gonna opt for a setup I can easily repair myself, in country.

so now that you've sent the Konis back and forth 2-3 times to get revalved, or spent the 300-500$ on the tooling for them to be legitimately end user serviceable are they still cheaper than letting DG-5 do the R&D?

Most guys willing to spend the money to get their 86xx series revalved are doing it because they know what they are doing, and could care less about cost. I mean, it's a bullheaded way to to say it, but it's the truth. I personally don't see any issue running the 8611/8610 setup with 600lb/500lb (or even 550/450)setup on street/track days and needing a revalve...


the 8000 series starts at 1500$ a shock.

What? They are 300ish for 8611's and 200ish for 8610's...1500 bucks? Unless I'm reading you incorrectly.

[McRussellPants]

I don't think 95% of people here will ever know the difference or care.

for the record I thought KW was unimpressive, and even the sponsored drivers I've talked to have ho-hum things to say.

I don't think you'll find a much better option than DG-5 for that price bracket, maybe if you knew whats up with valving and had time to waste with transit, then maybe.

but nobody really makes a bolt on a go option for high end shocks on the S-chassis, except maybe the S14 ASTs, but thats still probably a teir above DG5 price wise

[McRussellPants]

ah. I was thinking 2800 series.

nobody will ever convince me the 8600 series is a good idea.

[codyace]

I don't think 95% of people here will ever know the difference or care.

Most certainly - much like what brian said earlier:
95% of the people here just need coilovers to make the car lower and stiffer.

...not that there is anythign wrong with that tho for those that just want to look the part in kmart parking lots ya know? Just not for me. I guess I should remember that there are very few of us that would know

for the record I thought KW was unimpressive, and even the sponsored drivers I've talked to have ho-hum things to say.

I think their Euro related stuff works better, but never used them on an S chassis. Good to note tho.

I don't think you'll find a much better option than DG-5 for that price bracket, maybe if you knew whats up with valving and had time to waste with transit, then maybe.

but nobody really makes a bolt on a go option for high end shocks on the S-chassis, except maybe the S14 ASTs, but thats still probably a teir above DG5 price wise

There is certianly something to say about bolt on and go...always a nice selling point in the grand scheme of things...but I'm surprized a guy like you with the obvious ability to build/create/work on his car never really dabbled with going a custom route (not meant as a diss obviously)

[Brian]

All I use mine for is going lower than stock and more stiff.

[codyace]

ah. I was thinking 2800 series.

nobody will ever convince me the 8600 series is a good idea.

Oh for sure with those ... man are they nice though. That's obviously for a full on race car


Curious: whys that? They work pretty good on the PTE car.....EDIT: B13 Sentra

EDIT2: They've been on the car for 3 seasons now too, no issues.

[racepar1]

The bottom line is that for the $2500 it will cost you for a set of DG5's you can get better, more adjustable, and rebuildable coilovers elsewhere. DG5's are $1500 coilovers, not worth it for $2500.

[Brian]

The second bottom line is that 98% of the people paid LESS than that for their whole car and look for the cheapest coilover out there to slam their rYde.

[racepar1]

The second bottom line is that 98% of the people paid LESS than that for their whole car and look for the cheapest coilover out there to slam their rYde.

Ok Brian ENOUGH. You are not adding anything and you really aren't even saying anything. You are just spouting the same shit over and over again. We all know that, hell you've only stated the same damn thing multiple times. If someone is considering spending $2500 on a set of coilovers they had better want them for something more then simply lowering the car and stiffening the springs. You can do that for much cheaper.

My advice to the OP is get something else. If you want $2500 suspension then go out and buy some REAL $2500 suspension. If you want something that bolts on, rides well, and stiffens the car go spend $1000 less on something else.

[Brian]

Good point :shifty eyes:
This thread created about DG5 coilovers should get back "on topic" to Moton, Koni, Penske, Eibach, etc.
proceed.
EDIT: woops, almost forgot AST, Silk Road, Kei Office.... PBM, Stace, DMAX, Megan, KW, and Bilstein. (I think that was all that was mentioned)

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

i bet nissan spent $6.5 million dollars on R&D for the stock suspension, so stock suspension is best.

[codyace]

My advice to the OP is get something else. If you want $2500 suspension then go out and buy some REAL $2500 suspension. If you want something that bolts on, rides well, and stiffens the car go spend $1000 less on something else.

I agree. In raelity, I don't see much 'mustard' in anything in the mid 1xxx range. At that rate, may as well get some MR or D2 or whatnot...they're gonna work the damn same.

[anton1o]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hhncc9.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/2a0etza.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2h6sv2q.jpg

[racepar1]

Good point :shifty eyes:
This thread created about DG5 coilovers should get back "on topic" to Moton, Koni, Penske, Eibach, etc.
proceed.
EDIT: woops, almost forgot AST, Silk Road, Kei Office.... PBM, Stace, DMAX, Megan, KW, and Bilstein. (I think that was all that was mentioned)

Brian, the guy is asking for opinions on DG5 coilovers. All we are doing is comparing the DG5's to other coilovers in the same price range. That is a stretch of the imagination to call that off topic. I really did like you when we met and I do have repect for you, but lately you have just kinda been outta control. You seem to be posting nothing but one-liners (some better then others) and the same meaningless shit over and over and over. I think you may be having just a little too much fun with the whole BH fanboy epedemic.

:D

BTW, I have driven on D-max coilovers and those don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as almost any of the coilovers you listed. It's kinda like riding on bricks that bounce somehow...

[Brian]

lol come on Aron. I want people to enjoy their day. Maybe laugh once or twice.

let's not go more off topic. We can PM if you want.

[racepar1]

I agree. In raelity, I don't see much 'mustard' in anything in the mid 1xxx range. At that rate, may as well get some MR or D2 or whatnot...they're gonna work the damn same.

I would NEVER reccomend ANYONE to get Megan or D2 coilovers...


...EVER!

I reccomend maybe some TEIN's (or similar mid-level JDM dampers) or even stances are good for the money. With Megan and D2 you might as well just burn your money, it'll be more productive...

[Brian]

here is some on-topic.

The original guy only responded once in 3 pages. Seems like he is set on getting the DG5s.

Good.

They are pretty expensive.
I'm no expert by ANY means, but I'm sure he will be more than happy with them. I also think he wouldnt be able to tell the difference between those and a set that is $1000 cheaper. Maybe I'm wrong. There is a good chance of it...

[mmdb]

here is some on-topic.

The original guy only responded once in 3 pages. Seems like he is set on getting the DG5s.

Good.

They are pretty expensive.
I'm no expert by ANY means, but I'm sure he will be more than happy with them. I also think he wouldnt be able to tell the difference between those and a set that is $1000 cheaper. Maybe I'm wrong. There is a good chance of it...

The post doesn't just influence the original poster. Whomever that reads it might get a better idea what he/she eventually wants. So it doesn't matter what he really gets, but maybe it might help someone else make a decision when they read this... it's like the bible man! :)
But I do hoped it helped haha.

[SebasS13]

well i can tell the difference between something worth 2500 and then something 1000 less.. ive ridden all sorts expect dg-5 and thats why i asked... ive just heard really great things about them and wanted to hear some more before actually getting them.. really appreciate it though..

[Brian]

Cool, let us know how you like them.
I have heard nothing but good things.

[BlitzRPS13]

What's wrong with D-Max? I've heard alot of good things.

[ManoNegra]

What's wrong with D-Max? I've heard alot of good things.

But that's usually from young guys with little money to spend who still have
healthy kidneys and back
some of us are older, have decent jobs and fucked our backs when we were younger and now care about ride quality
fuck, when I was 18 I thought riding a skateboard in traffic was a good idea too

[BlitzRPS13]

But that's usually from young guys with little money to spend who still have
healthy kidneys and back
some of us are older, have decent jobs and fucked our backs when we were younger and now care about ride quality
fuck, when I was 18 I thought riding a skateboard in traffic was a good idea too

I almost died in a car accident last year... so i know all about the back thing... i have RG(racing gear) coilovers... and they're so fucking stiff it's unbearable... but we have shitty roads here... i just want something that dampens nice yet is fairly stiff.

[McRussellPants]

so now I'm pretty fascinated all the cars I've seen with DG5s work as well as they do.



Shrug, Seen it work in real life, shock dyno's don't say it all I guess.

[95KA-Turbo]

I'm not disagreeing with how they feel, but what are you comparing them too? Don't take this as me being an ass, but it's hard tog et past the part where your car (which is a great looking car btw, i love it) has their stickers on the side of it ya know?

I understand what you're saying about the stickers, but stickers or not I don't have to go out of my way to support them. I do that because I honestly like the product. I scrapped a custom bilstein set up I was making to run them.

They are comparable to my friend's 350Z with Koni race shocks and nismo springs. That's the only thing I've ridden in that feels almost the same. I've ridden in cars with stance and I had JICs and the Fortunes ride better.

[codyace]

so now I'm pretty fascinated all the cars I've seen with DG5s work as well as they do.



Shrug, Seen it work in real life, shock dyno's don't say it all I guess.

a shock dyno is nice....but whats it really say in regard to how the car will handle? (which you reference at the end of your post). All it's telling us, is in an ideal situation, how the shock/strut will perform. Granted this is good information in regard to how well it's made/performs, but it tells us nothing about how the car will handle in the end. I mean, I guess it's the new cool thing to do (brag about shock dynos) but it's overall expression in regard to handling is abou zilch, other than outlining the struts capability. Is it important? Certainly...any information in relation to a part is good in my book. But in the same respect, it should not stand as the only reason to buy a specific coilover

Think of it like an engine dyno...what does it really tell us about how fast a car can be? Certainly it gives us a number, but it really does little to determine how (ultimatly this is) a car will run, or perform. 300 hp <> 300 hp. Gotta take things like weight, rpm, gearing, drivetrain loss, etc etc. I mean heck even if just one of those is different, you could see a dramatic difference in trap speed, and ET.


Not trying to be negative nancy, just trying to be thorough with my observations. I'm glad companies are at least going through the process, but to say that DG5 struts are the main reason cars are 'winning drifting' (which is laughable in itself due to judging differences) events is silly, and to use that as a reason to buy them, is even worse.

Again, 90% of the users on here would be perfectly fine with a set of MR or D2 and not know the difference if you switched them on their cars at night without telling them. To me spending 1000-1500 bucks on a set of coilovers is just as much as a waste as spending 850 on them. If you can toss the coin for a 1500 dollar set, why no wait another week and get a legit set? Just how I see it ya know, no more no less.

[codyace]

ah. I was thinking 2800 series.

nobody will ever convince me the 8600 series is a good idea.

Not trying to be an ass, but still curious as to your opinions behind this.

[GripTerror]

What's your hate on the 8611/8610 shocks.... i run them and they are fantastic with high spring rates and more comfortable/better controlled than any of the jdm stuff ive ridden in with lesser spring rates. I rock the track with them as well. Heck even on the street I'm okay.

Some people are just hard headed... I'm glad some people have woken up though and aren't as hardcore about 'jdm this jdm that'.

Why pay for something just because its 'jdm tyte' when you can get something better for cheaper? That's the argument most are having here.

And lets say you do have some jdm tyte 'high end' shocks from whatever brand... why pay the brand name, jdm tax/customs/whatever when you can get something potentially even better for the same price or less.

Plus these things are proven... and fyi the 86xx series were built for touring series race cars according to koni's own website... thats not shabby imo.

[codyace]

And lets say you do have some jdm tyte 'high end' shocks from whatever brand... why pay the brand name, jdm tax/customs/whatever when you can get something potentially even better for the same price or less.


Listen guy, these things win drifting events. They gotta be good. :wiggle:


I guess it all comes down to the grip vs slip vs lowes parking lot guys here....all of which really have completly different needs in regard to a 'coilover'.

[ManoNegra]

Tsuchiya brand coilover cars winning at Tsuchiya judged/ran/influenced events.... shocking.

[PoorMans180SX]

All of this talk and I only heard Aragosta mentioned once? What is this?

1. Shocks made by AST.
2. Get them custom valved by any AST dealer.
3. BOLT-IN
4. Upgradeable
5. "Double adjustable" ride height. (Don't know how low they go.)
6. Start at $2950

No other coilover offers this combo.

[Bubbles]

Really.....dampens the mood doesn't it.

[PoorMans180SX]

Really.....dampens the mood doesn't it.

Oh! Clever pun! ;)

[Matej]

Need that maximum performance.

[Dousan_PG]

i didnt read any of the bullshit on these posts
but

i love my DG-5s
henry shelly drove my car,....and sold his KWs for Dg-5s the following week and loves them
i bought them because chris forsberg told me how awesome they were when i was pondering on buying them. and he's had various coilovers on his car.
my buddies in japan who drift d1gp, d1sl and various amatuer events said dont buy anything else.
joon maeng uses them
jtp has them

we all..

hands down

LOVE THEM
and all of us have drifting on at least 5 different types of coilovers (forsberg probalby 10 various types..) OR MORE


take it for what you will. i dont give a shit.

but they are awesome and i would recommend them to anyone looking for awesome drifting setup. i dont know road racing because i am not an elitist jackass. but for drifting do it.


they are real nice and feel great mid drift. i enjoy them so much. i was sellling them but since im still stuck w/ a beater s13, im going to put them on that car. because they are the awesomest thing evar

parked height:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/new%20s13/IMG_1745.jpg


under compression/load
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/new%20s13/IMG_8598.jpg

im at the track a good amount and anyone is welcome for ride-alongs.



and while im between s13s, here's a quick pics from cell phone. ooh i cant wait to put them on the new drift car!!!!


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/forsale/IMG_0428.jpg


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/forsale/IMG_0426.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/forsale/IMG_0427.jpg

[Bubbles]

Yeah...........but how well do they handle mall parking lots?


Let's get down to the brass tacks.

[mmdb]

There you have it. Dg5 or die.

[Dousan_PG]

Mall parking lots?
Let you know soon
new car is "street car"

[Bubbles]

I remember someone saying something about that.

You're parting out this car, then what?

A simpler car you feel more comfortable on the street with?

[racepar1]

Honestly I am not questioning whether or not the DG5's are good, I'm sure they are. IMO for $2500 you should get more then single adjustable dampers though. ANY single adjustable damper coilover setup that costs more then $1700-$1800 is a ripoff IMO. Of course I am willing to be that if more people started importing the DG5's they might just be found in that price range. My problem is the price, not the quality...

[wh0aitznic0]

My problem with these custom Koni setups is the lack of ability to put my car on the floor. Some of you old folk would say "oh these will put your car lower than you'll ever need to" but fuck that, I want to have the option of putting my car a millimeter from the floor if need be.

[GripTerror]

See thats the problem. People brainlessly (no disrespect) just wana slam their car not knowing what the hell they are messing up on their car... and im not talking about scraping the framerails or your fancy bodykit... but the suspension design as a whole.

You can go pretty low with them but of course its not gona be 'low enough' for the slammers on zilvia. Even at that point the non zilvia slammed low it still messes up your geometry significantly.

Bottom line is there is two ppls in this, ones who just wana look hard and ones who wana drive hard. Drifting is a whole other ball game and its 'driving hard' but not like road racing driving hard. Different goals.

Still its just ridiculous to pay 2500$ if you wana slam your car and drift...

"BUt buT i wana slam my car"... cmon man... nissanroadracing has a few guys running them and there are a few who lowered the car significantly with them. They just wont be scraping framerails. Honestly if you are, you have other issues to worry about already such as wheel wells.

My own car I had more problems with my wheel wells than anything else going low... then again i dont run stretched tires but meaty tires for grip.

[mmdb]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hhncc9.jpg


http://i42.tinypic.com/2a0etza.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2h6sv2q.jpg


Dampers look to be pretty damn stiff at high speed. Doesn't look to be so much digressive as it hits a point and increases linearly. Definitely not a road racing damper imo As you'd want to absorb berms and bumps a high speed. Maybe drifiting benefits from having a lot o high speed rebound as the car is tossed side tonside during drifts eleminating much sway. If that's tue then I'd say definitely a drift application, but not so great for daily or road racing on a bump course.

Correction! I read the graph wrong. The rebound is pretty damn high, so the car would not sway very much, keeping the car very flat. This would add to the stability at high speeds 'n what not.

[wh0aitznic0]

See thats the problem. People brainlessly (no disrespect) just wana slam their car not knowing what the hell they are messing up on their car... and im not talking about scraping the framerails or your fancy bodykit... but the suspension design as a whole.

You can go pretty low with them but of course its not gona be 'low enough' for the slammers on zilvia. Even at that point the non zilvia slammed low it still messes up your geometry significantly.

Bottom line is there is two ppls in this, ones who just wana look hard and ones who wana drive hard. Drifting is a whole other ball game and its 'driving hard' but not like road racing driving hard. Different goals.

Still its just ridiculous to pay 2500$ if you wana slam your car and drift...

"BUt buT i wana slam my car"... cmon man... nissanroadracing has a few guys running them and there are a few who lowered the car significantly with them. They just wont be scraping framerails. Honestly if you are, you have other issues to worry about already such as wheel wells.

My own car I had more problems with my wheel wells than anything else going low... then again i dont run stretched tires but meaty tires for grip.

I know. You don't have to tell me what so many others have already shoved in my face. I think it was Ayuaddict that said "even I know that my lower control arms pointing up in the air isn't good for performance." I'm also NOT going to spend 2500 on coilovers if my only goal is to get my car stiff and as low as possible. Powered By Max will work plenty good for that for around $1000.

[!Zar!]

Oh how I love this thread and everything it brings.

[codyace]

I know. You don't have to tell me what so many others have already shoved in my face. I think it was Ayuaddict that said "even I know that my lower control arms pointing up in the air isn't good for performance." I'm also NOT going to spend 2500 on coilovers if my only goal is to get my car stiff and as low as possible. Powered By Max will work plenty good for that for around $1000.

I appreciate someone who is at least honest about their goals. That's why I said, this thread isn't ever going to come to the perfect answer, as it's really about grip/slip/parking lot guys and their own specific needs for their particular style.

[Matej]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hhncc9.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a0etza.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2h6sv2q.jpg
Don't know anything about parts, I only emulate cars I like. All those cars are ugly. Only the D-Max one is alright. I am sold on D-Max.

[lflkajfj12123]

See thats the problem. People brainlessly (no disrespect) just wana slam their car not knowing what the hell they are messing up on their car... and im not talking about scraping the framerails or your fancy bodykit... but the suspension design as a whole.

You can go pretty low with them but of course its not gona be 'low enough' for the slammers on zilvia. Even at that point the non zilvia slammed low it still messes up your geometry significantly.

Bottom line is there is two ppls in this, ones who just wana look hard and ones who wana drive hard. Drifting is a whole other ball game and its 'driving hard' but not like road racing driving hard. Different goals.

Still its just ridiculous to pay 2500$ if you wana slam your car and drift...

"BUt buT i wana slam my car"... cmon man... nissanroadracing has a few guys running them and there are a few who lowered the car significantly with them. They just wont be scraping framerails. Honestly if you are, you have other issues to worry about already such as wheel wells.

My own car I had more problems with my wheel wells than anything else going low... then again i dont run stretched tires but meaty tires for grip.


lol this guy

[racepar1]

lol this guy

He does seem a little "encourageable", like I'm one to talk...

Reminds me of me before I figured out that nobody was going to listen anyways.

[R33E8]

lol this guy


lol this guy... stfu, when was the last time you made a post that actually contributed something useful?


See thats the problem. People brainlessly(no disrespect) just wana slam their car not knowing what the hell theyare messing up on their car... and im not talking about scraping theframerails or your fancy bodykit... but the suspension design as awhole.

You can go pretty low with them but of course its not gona be 'lowenough' for the slammers on zilvia. Even at that point the non zilviaslammed low it still messes up your geometry significantly.

Bottom line is there is two ppls in this, ones who just wana lookhard and ones who wana drive hard. Drifting is a whole other ball gameand its 'driving hard' but not like road racing driving hard. Differentgoals.

Still its just ridiculous to pay 2500$ if you wana slam your car and drift...

"BUt buT i wana slam my car"... cmon man... nissanroadracing has afew guys running them and there are a few who lowered the carsignificantly with them. They just wont be scraping framerails.Honestly if you are, you have other issues to worry about already suchas wheel wells.

My own car I had more problems with my wheel wells than anythingelse going low... then again i dont run stretched tires but meaty tiresfor grip.


This guy knows what he is talking about, too bad some people here don't want to listen and learn..

[lflkajfj12123]

^ lol this guy too

[silviaguy240]

"BUt buT i wana slam my car"... cmon man... nissanroadracing has a few guys running them and there are a few who lowered the car significantly with them. They just wont be scraping framerails. Honestly if you are, you have other issues to worry about already such as wheel wells.

you realize coilovers are adjustable right? so if someone wants to be low as shit and road race every once in a while. the DG5's are the better option because they can do both. raise your car up, BOOM. better suspension geometry. then afterwards you want to slam your car now. BOOM. its done.

konis, you want to go road racing. ok your set. i want to slam my car now, BOo.....wait you cant.

the konis may be a bit better than DG5, but they can only do one thing well. Its like having a super hot wife that cant do shit but eat, sleep, breathe and be hot. but you go with the good looking wife that is a useful human being.

[codyace]

you realize coilovers are adjustable right? so if someone wants to be low as shit and road race every once in a while. the DG5's are the better option because they can do both. raise your car up, BOOM. better suspension geometry. then afterwards you want to slam your car now. BOOM. its done

konis, you want to go road racing. ok your set. i want to slam my car now, BOo.....wait you cant.

the konis may be a bit better than DG5, but they can only do one thing well. Its like having a super hot wife that cant do shit but eat, sleep, breathe and be hot. but you go with the good looking wife that is a useful human being.

Whats your ultimate point here? I don't think I see any. The guys who run koni's (or at least 99%) of them could give two hoots less about low riding. Just how it is, and are all about the track. I'm a koni guy, and I can tell this much: Sunken ship cars aren't for me. I drive the car like an F150...and to have it bottoming out pulling into Sears would piss me off and make me want to burn it.

[drift freaq]

you realize coilovers are adjustable right? so if someone wants to be low as shit and road race every once in a while. the DG5's are the better option because they can do both. raise your car up, BOOM. better suspension geometry. then afterwards you want to slam your car now. BOOM. its done.

konis, you want to go road racing. ok your set. i want to slam my car now, BOo.....wait you cant.

the konis may be a bit better than DG5, but they can only do one thing well. Its like having a super hot wife that cant do shit but eat, sleep, breathe and be hot. but you go with the good looking wife that is a useful human being.


This is utter bullshit and this whole thread is completely ridiculous. Fact is you can set Koni's up to drift or road race, If you know what your doing.

Fact is most of the people in this thread could really give a shit if Koni's work. They want to slam their car and they want it to be stiff.

Not one of the people that have spoken up for the DG5's even cares one iota about digressive dampening., or at least they have not indicated caring. LOL

Fact is in truth a car does not even have to be slammed to be able to drift. Just look at Pro Rally.

There was a reason they would not let Rhys Millens runs in his Pro Rally Evo not be in the competition at the RSR event back in the day. A fully lifted car drifting was just not what they wanted to promote.

DG5's are most likely a decent setup for drifting its what they were designed for specifically. In the end like others have said for $2500 its a little pricey.

I for one if I was going to spend that kinda of money on a setup would definitely get AST's instead. My opinion!

Now the OP's question has been answered many times over and now you guys are just bickering over things half of you have no knowledge in.

I.E. one person knows DG5's but not Koni's and the other person knows Koni's not DG5's

Which means both sides are talking out of their asses. First person to step up and say I have experience with Dg5's and experience with Koni's as well is the one who should talk.

The rest of you/us, just shut the fuck up and let it die.

[anton1o]

Don't know anything about parts, I only emulate cars I like. All those cars are ugly. Only the D-Max one is alright. I am sold on D-Max.

hahaha, yeah we should all buy parts on how good the companys promo car looks.

fitment is everything remember :p

[Enna]

First person to step up and say I have experience with Dg5's and experience with Koni's as well is the one who should talk.

The rest of up just shut the fuck up and let it die.

<3

wittycomment

[GripTerror]

you realize coilovers are adjustable right? so if someone wants to be low as shit and road race every once in a while. the DG5's are the better option because they can do both. raise your car up, BOOM. better suspension geometry. then afterwards you want to slam your car now. BOOM. its done.

konis, you want to go road racing. ok your set. i want to slam my car now, BOo.....wait you cant.

the konis may be a bit better than DG5, but they can only do one thing well. Its like having a super hot wife that cant do shit but eat, sleep, breathe and be hot. but you go with the good looking wife that is a useful human being.

http://zilvia.net/f/avatars/silviaguy240.gif?dateline=1237261624

I think enough has been said

[Def]

you realize coilovers are adjustable right? so if someone wants to be low as shit and road race every once in a while. the DG5's are the better option because they can do both. raise your car up, BOOM. better suspension geometry. then afterwards you want to slam your car now. BOOM. its done.

konis, you want to go road racing. ok your set. i want to slam my car now, BOo.....wait you cant.

the konis may be a bit better than DG5, but they can only do one thing well. Its like having a super hot wife that cant do shit but eat, sleep, breathe and be hot. but you go with the good looking wife that is a useful human being.

Right, because you'd know all about the Koni setups we're talking about. With stiff spring rates you can probably go as low as the frame/wheel wells of your car will allow with veilside180sx's 861x housings.

[Bubbles]

hahaha, yeah we should all buy parts on how good the companys promo car looks.




You ever see BN put out a bad demo car?




Exactly.

[anton1o]

Yes i have, Doesnt mean they are a bad company and dont know what they are doing..

Everybody makes a mistake in there life..

Horrific front bar!

http://www.bn-sports.co.jp/2door/image/zoom/z_33skyline_front.jpg

[Bubbles]

Australia...........you fail again.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

this thread and the sileighty thread is an illustration of why i would never have a serious discussion about engineering with anyone on this website. facepalm.jpg

[mmdb]

^ also a good indicator of why one should/shouldn't make any decent parts for the 240.

[Bubbles]

sileighty thread


Don't even talk about that.

[rebornS14]

wow this thread got crazy! lol. so i wanna know, did the guy end up buying it or not?

[fcken_engus]

overpriced but definately worth the cool points, i'm too poor for them tho