Navy SEALS.... just as bad as the police over here...

[Brian]

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist - Iraq | War | Map - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html)

Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And three of the SEALs who captured him are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.

The three, all members of the Navy's elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called a captain's mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.

Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.

Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.

Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2), is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.

Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of performance of duty and making a false official statement.

Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.

Neal Puckett, an attorney representing McCabe, told Fox News the SEALs are being charged for allegedly giving the detainee a “punch in the gut.”

“I don’t know how they’re going to bring this detainee to the United States and give us our constitutional right to confrontation in the courtroom,” Puckett said. “But again, we have terrorists getting their constitutional rights in New York City, but I suspect that they’re going to deny these SEALs their right to confrontation in a military courtroom in Virginia.”

The three SEALs will be arraigned separately on Dec. 7. Another three SEALs — two officers and an enlisted sailor — have been identified by investigators as witnesses but have not been charged.

FoxNews.com obtained the official handwritten statement from one of the three witnesses given on Sept. 3, hours after Abed was captured and still being held at the SEAL base at Camp Baharia. He was later taken to a cell in the U.S.-operated Green Zone in Baghdad.

The SEAL told investigators he had showered after the mission, gone to the kitchen and then decided to look in on the detainee.

"I gave the detainee a glance over and then left," the SEAL wrote. "I did not notice anything wrong with the detainee and he appeared in good health."

Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, spokeswoman for the special operations component of U.S. Central Command, confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com that three SEALs have been charged in connection with the capture of a detainee. She said their court martial is scheduled for January.

United States Central Command declined to discuss the detainee, but a legal source told FoxNews.com that the detainee was turned over to Iraqi authorities, to whom he made the abuse complaints. He was then returned to American custody. The SEAL leader reported the charge up the chain of command, and an investigation ensued.

The source said intelligence briefings provided to the SEALs stated that "Objective Amber" planned the 2004 Fallujah ambush, and "they had been tracking this guy for some time."

The Fallujah atrocity came to symbolize the brutality of the enemy in Iraq and the degree to which a homegrown insurgency was extending its grip over Iraq.

The four Blackwater agents were transporting supplies for a catering company when they were ambushed and killed by gunfire and grenades. Insurgents burned the bodies and dragged them through the city. They hanged two of the bodies on a bridge over the Euphrates River for the world press to photograph.

Intelligence sources identified Abed as the ringleader, but he had evaded capture until September.

The military is sensitive to charges of detainee abuse highlighted in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. The Navy charged four SEALs with abuse in 2004 in connection with detainee treatment.







Man, I am so TIRED of police and now military people getting away with WHATEVER they want. They think that they are above the law. Who do they think they are, punching a leader of a task force that killed several Americans and hung them for the world to see?

I'm telling you, something needs to change. Police/Military should NOT BE above the law.


ATTN: I hope you understand the point of my post. It's sarcastic.

[240love]

cliff notes?

[Brian]

No .

[240love]

ghey.............too lazy to read

[brewster240]

thats fucking ridiculous.

[brewster240]

ghey.............too lazy to read

another big problem with america.

to lazy to read, but enough energy to make a comment.

[ThatGuy]

ghey.............too lazy to read

Take a week off to save up your energy.

Pinked for lazy post whoring.




Brian, well said.

Not everyone will get your point though.

case in point \/

[TheGrim]

wow... are you serious?

"Who do they think they are, punching a leader of a task force that killed several Americans and hung them for the world to see?"

I hope that was sarcasm...

We are the most underpaid and underappreciated men and women at work in America for the work we do... Spending months at a time away from family to do our part to help keep America safe. The media doesnt say a thing when soldiers get captured and tortured against the laws of the geneva convention, but soldiers are made out to look like monsters for things as miniscule as this Navy Seal situation.

Some people have no idea what it takes to become spec ops or a regular serviceman even. This is the america we protect right?

[SimpleS14]

lol what? Are you being sarcastic Brian? They punched the guy, not strip him butt naked wearing a hood over his face and electric clips latched onto his nipples.

I'm sorry, but this comes off as being a bit "soft". If they used unnecessary deadly force (i.e. shooting the guy while already detained) then I can SOMEWHAT see the issue here....

[Brian]

The Grim - No, I'm not being serious.
SimpleS14 - Yes sarcastic.


I posted this story because......
there is QUITE a trend of threads recently with people hating police and etc.
Maybe these jackasses will begin to see what is happening with their over-PC bullshit ideals they are living in. You guys see what happens when you start giving criminals more rights than OUR members of defense????


So I found this story and figured it would be a hit. Seems like a lot of Zilvians.... well, the idiots anyways, side with criminals and whatnot.

[TheGrim]

oh. okay I see what your saying...

[Brian]

We are the most underpaid and underappreciated men and women at work in America for the work we do... Spending months at a time away from family to do our part to help keep America safe.


People should really read this statement.
Yes, STATEMENT. No, not an opinion.

[g-via]

Pretty fucking stupid.

I wonder how they got caught with him? And what were they planning to do to him?

[zylvia213]

thats a bunch of BS... just for getting punched in the gutt these guys are going through this.... what about all the shit these special forces go through. This is stupid.

[tr0n9h]

LOL. BRIAN go watch some 24. I would have kill him for killing four BLACKWATER agent. A punch is nothing.

[HyperTek]

what unnecessary roughness? been around for ages.. military personal who rape women and beat on civilians in other countries during their tours.

[Quail]

I think a few people are missing the obvious satire in this thread..

[SimpleSexy180]

Actually there is no point.

This story isn't any different from what I've heard in my lifetime, so whats the bitchin about?

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

if these guys get court marshaled for that, navy officer is cross off my post-grad job list.

[Mangudai]

People should really read this statement.
Yes, STATEMENT. No, not an opinion.



Since it depends on perception and context yes, it is an opinion. But that's another topic.


The Grim - No, I'm not being serious.
SimpleS14 - Yes sarcastic.


I posted this story because......
there is QUITE a trend of threads recently with people hating police and etc.
Maybe these jackasses will begin to see what is happening with their over-PC bullshit ideals they are living in. You guys see what happens when you start giving criminals more rights than OUR members of defense????


So I found this story and figured it would be a hit. Seems like a lot of Zilvians.... well, the idiots anyways, side with criminals and whatnot.


This was a terrible example for the point you were trying to make for so many reasons. Are you insinuating that the apprehension and animosity people have for police over here is unwarranted? Want to make sure I get what you're saying. So you use something that happened in a war, in another country where a detainee was assaulted? Regardless of what he did there are rules in place that prohibit these kind of things. If they're going to be instated then they need to adhered to. If not, then what's the point. This is my view anyway.

[spooled240]

The Grim - No, I'm not being serious.
SimpleS14 - Yes sarcastic.


I posted this story because......
there is QUITE a trend of threads recently with people hating police and etc.
Maybe these jackasses will begin to see what is happening with their over-PC bullshit ideals they are living in. You guys see what happens when you start giving criminals more rights than OUR members of defense????


So I found this story and figured it would be a hit. Seems like a lot of Zilvians.... well, the idiots anyways, side with criminals and whatnot.

that's just one of the consequences of the American justice system, suspects/criminals have rights too but people don't give rights to criminals. It's just a matter of where to draw the line and some people draw it way off imo

there are a lot of idiots out there that act all hard saying FCK THE POLICE and shit, little do they realize that without them they would get mugged, assaulted, killed, etc. The only thing I hate about law enforcement is when the state uses them for a fund raiser, handing out tickets left and right when the state deficit worsens

[MADE]

Mod delete

[Sleepy240]

We are the most underpaid and underappreciated men and women at work in America for the work we do... Spending months at a time away from family to do our part to help keep America safe. The media doesnt say a thing when soldiers get captured and tortured against the laws of the geneva convention, but soldiers are made out to look like monsters for things as miniscule as this Navy Seal situation.

Some people have no idea what it takes to become spec ops or a regular serviceman even. This is the america we protect right?

I have the utmost respect for people who serve and protect our country but your gonna tell me with all of the intense and special training these guys went through, they can't show a bit of self-control with a detained prisoner?

Sadly all media focuses on is atrocities whether its involving soldiers, civilians, or third world countries.

[cc4usmc]

Way to go USA. Even the terrorists know this country is full of pussies. Here they are exploiting it after doing something 100x worse and all people care about is the poor little terrorist.

[Om1kron]

I guess when you get up and close to someone who is a terrorist threat and has threatened the well beings of your family and your country. Can you really blame a soldier's self satisfaction to give a personal beat down rather than an emotional bullet wound? In other words, I agree Brian.

[Touge Noob S13]

Seriously after what these scumbags do to innocent people they get rights? Im surprised the SEALS didnt just blow the terrorist brain's out when they caught them.

[mRclARK1]

Ridiculous.

They should be commended for finding him and showing restraint when they did.

Anyone who does not know what was done to the Blackwater team, which included a former SEAL, should do a little google search.

I don't blame them one bit. I'd have done the same.

[yokotas13]

I have the utmost respect for people who serve and protect our country but your gonna tell me with all of the intense and special training these guys went through, they can't show a bit of self-control with a detained prisoner?


the detainee is alive isnt he?
Me thinks a squad of guys able to kill you in 100 different ways, not killing you, is restraint enough.

I think its bogus, and ridiculous. These guys risk everything for us, and they get this thrown at them? I thought maintenance was stupid but jesus

[tricky_ab]

So a terrorist got a fat lip? So what! I'm sure he deserved it! The SEAL who gave him the fat lip should get a medal.

[ThatGuy]

This is why we shouldn't bother with prisoners.

Casualties don't complain.


Cue bleeding heart liberal to tell me what a bad person I am. Nothing new. Don't forget to call me a "Baby Killer" and stick a fucking daisy in the end of my M-16.

[Matej]

He should sue them. That is inhumane.

[lewisfk]

this is one prime exmple of what is wrong with our government! We fight wars with one hand tied behind our backs! The media is blowing this case way over perportion! If i was in their shoes i would refuse Captians Mass and reguest a Special Courtmarshall! That allows them to be judged by a group of people vs one person in a Captian's Mass! I know ive been in my share of Captians Mass and I set in on a S. CourtMARSHALL!!

What happens if the prisoner recevied his injuries during his capture! Then he waited and cried to the first libral bitch he could find or maybe the media! Its said when the terroist no how to munipulate or justice system better than us! Its just me but, I would of put two rounds in his chest and one in his head! Now u know he's dead!!

[Matej]

What happens if the prisoner recevied his injuries during his capture! Then he waited and cried to the first libral bitch he could find or maybe the media!
Sounds like the only media he found is media that is actually against his case, using it to get people riled up. Other than that, I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else. Good old Fox News, haha. Always succeeding in making conservatives loathe the liberals.

[mRclARK1]

This is why we shouldn't bother with prisoners.

Casualties don't complain.


Cue bleeding heart liberal to tell me what a bad person I am. Nothing new. Don't forget to call me a "Baby Killer" and stick a fucking daisy in the end of my M-16.

I agree completely but unfortunately casualties don't give intelligence or information. :(

[ronmcdon]

I don't find this analogy too persuasive.

Technically there are 'prisoner of war' rights are reserved for soldiers we fight.
Terrorists aren't even that.
We can't violate rights when there were none to begin with.

Now if cops are directly violating existing civil rights of US citizens/ppl in the US or being manipulative about having them give up their rights, that to me is much worse.

Seems to me, (casual obsevation) that cops get away with far much more than everyone else.
Even judges and superiors seldom give more than a slap on the wrist.
Why should a cop get away with more than a military personnel who risk their lives every day, that I can't understand.
If anything, it should be the other way around imo.
We owe our soldiers far more than that.

[SuicidnS13]

I don't find this analogy too persuasive.

Technically there are 'prisoner of war' rights are reserved for soldiers we fight.
Terrorists aren't even that.
We can't violate rights when there were none to begin with.

Now if cops are directly violating existing civil rights of US citizens/ppl in the US or being manipulative about having them give up their rights, that to me is much worse.

Seems to me, (casual obsevation) that cops get away with far much more than everyone else.
Even judges and superiors seldom give more than a slap on the wrist.
Why should a cop get away with more than a military personnel who risk their lives every day, that I can't understand.
If anything, it should be the other way around imo.
We owe our soldiers far more than that.

Best response yet, majority of my cop friends were and are still total douche bags. They get away with soo much stuff it hurts me to even pay taxes any more. Every cop I see screwing off I think to myself, hey there goes another 65k per year of tax payers money going to waste. I have a "FEW" LEO friends which are totally stand up guys, but even they admit that they are a dying breed. The states are employing cops like wild fire because honestly they are just over paid meter maids in alot of cities (especially LA where crime rate hasnt changed in years even with police increase), ever notice the ever increasing violation costs!

I hope these SEALS are let off with nothing but a slap on the wrist. They deserve better than what was given to them. The media should be given a GAG order just to keep their families from being targeted by zealous would be terrorists living in this country. Think about it, now they are targets of other terrorists because they did the right thing!

[Otto347]

Seriously after what these scumbags do to innocent people they get rights? Im surprised the SEALS didnt just blow the terrorist brain's out when they caught them.Yup, kill him and dismember the body or bury it somewhere. End of story.

[Future240]

So he brutally kills Americans and shows off about it. Alledgely gets punched, and the seals are on trial for it...............WTF is wrong with people. I applaud them for letting him keep his legs.

Terrorist should have no rights. Whether they are foreign or are own.

[ericcastro]

Terrorist should have no rights. Whether they are foreign or are own.

With the amazingly broad amount of people, groups and ideas that could classify you as a terrorist these days,
I am glad we abide by rules of fair trial and treatment until found guilty.
We are part of the UN and abide by those rules for a reason, as well as the rules the geneva convention states.
Aren't we over there fighting to liberate people from the type of no rights treatment and abuse that the Seals started to display?

Just an honest question here.
Why is everyone so up in arms about a few blackwater soldiers getting themselves killed?
Unlike our troops, they are well paid and make the decision to go to war for money.
Mercinaries right?

And i think the troops should of course be on trial.
If I read it correctly, there was no reason to abuse a captive, right?
He wasn't armed, wasn't being threatening or escaping right??
Has he actually been found guilty yet??
Has he had his trial?

Glad I don't get punched in the gut after I get a fix it ticket.

Just saying......
Im sure the guys a piece of shit.
And I am sure he will be guilty.
But we have rules that we try and impose on the rest of the world to try and keep things civilied and have some sort of order.
Would be nice if we didn't show the world we are a bunch of hypocrits.

[ThatGuy]

Everybody just think about it like this for a second...


Someone just killed your brother. You happen to be the first person to find the guy who tortured and killed your brother. Now, while we'd all probably love to have the sense of mind to turn the guy in to stand his fair trial... what are the odds we wouldn't "mishandle" him a bit on the way to turn him in? If you could, then awesome for you, you are indeed a better man than I am.

Those of you who have not served in the military, or been a part of something like the Military, you may not understand my use of "your brother" as an example. But I assure you, there is a bond we all share.

Me? Certainly, I'd have likely been a bit more heavy handed than I would have to be in apprehending this individual. If need be, I would go to trial for it as well. I can only hope that I would get, what I hope these young men get, justice. They did not kill him, they did not incapacitate him, they did not scar him, they did not maim him. They roughed him up a bit. War sucks. But it gets tougher and tougher to do our job, the more laws we are required to abide by like this. Laws that our adversaries don't care about.


Good day, gentlemen.

[ericcastro]

Everybody just think about it like this for a second...


Someone just killed your brother. You happen to be the first person to find the guy who tortured and killed your brother. Now, while we'd all probably love to have the sense of mind to turn the guy in to stand his fair trial... what are the odds we wouldn't "mishandle" him a bit on the way to turn him in? If you could, then awesome for you, you are indeed a better man than I am.

Those of you who have not served in the military, or been a part of something like the Military, you may not understand my use of "your brother" as an example. But I assure you, there is a bond we all share.

Me? Certainly, I'd have likely been a bit more heavy handed than I would have to be in apprehending this individual. If need be, I would go to trial for it as well. I can only hope that I would get, what I hope these young men get, justice. They did not kill him, they did not incapacitate him, they did not scar him, they did not maim him. They roughed him up a bit. War sucks. But it gets tougher and tougher to do our job, the more laws we are required to abide by like this. Laws that our adversaries don't care about.


Good day, gentlemen.

I understand.
But just like officers here, when you have a fire arm and a position of power, you are expected and required to be able to follow rules and orders.

This law has been around since the WW2 I think, maybe earlier.

Of course, they may not be one of the hundred something nations that signed the Geneva convention, lol. ( I would wager its not, lol)

And do you military guys consider the Blackwater guys to be your brothers still?
Curious to know.
Im definatly not a fan of them.
they just seem wrong in so many ways.
just my opinion
not trying to get anyone riled up, just talking and asking questions.

[ThatGuy]

One of the individuals with that Blackwater team, was a former Navy Seal.

[ericcastro]

One of the individuals with that Blackwater team, was a former Navy Seal.

I had always thought that the blackwater guys are all X military.
Figured they just like to be cowboys and get paid alot for it.

I would say lets go to premie chat and BS, but I gotta get ready for a reception.
figure your at work? wired on that espresso beans thing? lol
have a good one.

[Ben G]

I would have punched that dude in the face to be honest not trying to be some hard ass or anything cause im not, but pretty much along the lines of what ThatGuy is saying. you have to try and see it from these guys and not as a civilian its alot different

[Future240]

With the amazingly broad amount of people, groups and ideas that could classify you as a terrorist these days,
I am glad we abide by rules of fair trial and treatment until found guilty.
We are part of the UN and abide by those rules for a reason, as well as the rules the geneva convention states.
Aren't we over there fighting to liberate people from the type of no rights treatment and abuse that the Seals started to display?

I respond with to this with this \/

They did not kill him, they did not incapacitate him, they did not scar him, they did not maim him. They roughed him up a bit. War sucks. But it gets tougher and tougher to do our job, the more laws we are required to abide by like this. Laws that our adversaries don't care about.

Good day, gentlemen.

I agree 100% with Barry on this. I don't think comparing these soldiers and this terrorist shit, to cops giving tickets is fair. These man brutally murdered people and hung two of their bodies to be photographed.

And I when I say terrorist I don't mean the new buzzword versions. I mean Timothy McVay, the DC Snipers, the Columbine Kids, Charles Whitman. These are all american terrorists. In my eyes they are no different than this guy these seals captured.

[Matej]

Maybe the guy's entire family was killed in an air raid.
Probably not, but would that make things different?
Probably not.

I'm sure for every smacking up of a prisoner leaking public, there are fifty others that no one will ever know about. I don't really care, either way. I'm a terrible person.

[Brian]

Interesting....

[cc4usmc]

Just an honest question here.
Why is everyone so up in arms about a few blackwater soldiers getting themselves killed?

Shooting someone is one thing. What they did to the bodies, just like what was done to the Delta/Rangers in Africa, is another thing. It's very easy for people who have never even thought about joining to say "Hey, couldn't you have used a little restraint?", but to actually be in the shit, is totally different. Those guys out there, you don't want to know what they're feeling.

This country doesn't know the true cost of war. The only people here who even remotely know are those that have lost people close to them. But that doesn't even come close to what Marines, Soldiers and Sailors are going through. Like others have said, the fact that that guy came back alive shows restraint, because they could have easily made sure he was gone for good.

Anyone who thinks what those SEALs did was even slightly wrong needs to wake up. A guy like the guy they captured doesn't give two fucks about you and your rights, your laws, right and wrong. There's no respecting his enemies. If he would of had those guys in his position, I couldn't even tell you what he might have done to them. And he would have probably recorded it, too, just so that their family can see. You can't fight an enemy like that the same way you would fight an enemy who would follow the "rules". They know they've got a way to break us down from in inside, and they're going to take full advantage of it.

[Brian]

Ahhhh, there are the people that "get it" and the people who just don't.

Reality vs. fantasy land.

[Sleepy240]

Anyone who thinks what those SEALs did was even slightly wrong needs to wake up. A guy like the guy they captured doesn't give two fucks about you and your rights, your laws, right and wrong. There's no respecting his enemies. If he would of had those guys in his position, I couldn't even tell you what he might have done to them. And he would have probably recorded it, too, just so that their family can see. You can't fight an enemy like that the same way you would fight an enemy who would follow the "rules". They know they've got a way to break us down from in inside, and they're going to take full advantage of it.

Whether you like it or not, what those soldiers did WAS wrong. Not just by America's standards, by the majority of the worlds standards. That is the cost of being a world power and imposing your views and systems on other countries. If anything soldiers (just like law enforcement) should be held to a higher standard as somebody who is protecting and fighting for our freedom and protecting our rights. You can't play devils advocate and preach fair trials, due process and then go and abuse a prisoner and expect no repercussions. America is held to a higher standard, just like it should be, mostly for doing the RIGHT thing.

[cc4usmc]

Ahhhh, there are the people that "get it" and the people who just don't.

Reality vs. fantasy land.

Reality vs America

There, I fixed it for you. I'm not really sure what side you're on Brian, one minute you sound like you think the charges are a joke, the next it sounds like you wanna give Mr. Terrorist a hug.

[SexPanda]

Honestly, the only thing thats fucked up here is the fact they believe ol Ahmed. Ever see fight club? Where the narrator is in his bosses office, kicking his own ass? Im pretty sure someone with enough hate for americans could give himself a busted lip to take down the infidel swine. If its true, still... When you get arrested, and you fight back or resist, what happens?

Bullshit really. Pure bullshit.

[mRclARK1]

What needs to be made clear is that the fact the Blackwater team was, in fact, a Blackwater team has nothing to do with this. All the members were former military, and one a former SEAL. That's all that mattered in the case of their reaction.

You leave the military. You may become a civilian again. You do not stop being a soldier or Marine or Ranger or Green Beret or SEAL or whatever you may have been. It's just not your 9-5 anymore. You're still a brother in the same sense that Barry made clear everyday of the rest of your life. That is what these men were reacting to when they roughed this guy up a VERY little bit.

Views of Blackwater positive or negative... They would have reacted the same way.

[cc4usmc]

Honestly, the only thing thats fucked up here is the fact they believe ol Ahmed.

Another good point. I think a majority of the people that read the article will think that because it says he was detained that he was strapped into a chair. Having some 10 cent zip ties around someones wrists while they sit counts as being detained. For all we know, he was trying to run off, or grab a weapon or whatever. Just because it's not in this article doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And for the record, I don't agree with all the rules we're supposed to follow. There were more then a few times when I was in Iraq that I was in a position where I was so worried I was going to get fucked that I didn't do what I was trained to do. In my case it was a good thing I didn't do what I was trained because civilians would be dead, but I can't say the same for everyone who was in my position, and I guarantee there are a lot of those. There should be a lot more civilian casualties out there then there have been, because those people are just plain dumb. And blind.

Like Brain said, there are the people that "get it" and the people who just don't.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

for anyone that hasn't seen it before, watch the movie "apocalypse now", except replace vietcong with "terrorists", communism with islam, and jungle with desert, and ignore all that weird marlon brando bullshit. here's a spoiler: we lose that war, just like we'll lose this one because of bureaucratic bullshit like SEALs being court-marshaled for punching a terrorist in the face. i don't think that people realize that you can only "play by the rules" when both sides adhere to them.

imagine watching a football game where the defense just constantly tackled the opposing quarterback; before, during, after the snap, in the huddle, during timeouts, during halftime, in the shower, , on the way to the team bus, on the way home, while he's trying to sleep, etc. it's not football. guerilla warfare is not traditional warfare. the way that this war is going.... it's not going to work.

[cc4usmc]

I don't think this war can be won. Terrorism doesn't have a face. You can't just look at someone and see that they're the bad guy. It's an idea, and anyone that believes the idea is capable of being a terrorist.

And I hate the using the word terrorist because by definition, you don't have to actually kill people to be a "terrorist". Then again, that just depends on what definition you use.

[RiversideS13]

Those terrorists are just buying time and waste our tax money for trails and investigation.

[TheGrim]

arent we all forgetting the MAIN reason why any sane person would take a few hits at the guy? THEY WERE AMERICANS!! Former Seals or not, they ambushed, killed, mutilated and flaunted dead americans for the world to see. I'm sure if a squad of regular marine or army infantry captured the guy, they would have done the same. No one does something like that to an American and gets away with it... especially on national TV. Hence the reason we are in afghanistan... it was an immediate response to the WTC disaster. Being in Iraq is debatable from any point of view right now. Arent we still looking for that one guy though? what do you think will happen WHEN we find THAT GUY?

[ericcastro]

I don't think this war can be won. Terrorism doesn't have a face. You can't just look at someone and see that they're the bad guy. It's an idea, and anyone that believes the idea is capable of being a terrorist.

totally agreed.
I have been saying since it started that its gonna be like VietNam in the desert.
Liberating a people from some arcaic life style and beliefs is great. (wether its our right or not to change a culture, at least the abuse the people face is less.)
But as far as stopping terrorism,........


I never said I didn't know why the Seals did what they did.
Of course I "get it".
But as soon as we start breaking the Geneva Convention, things will really fall apart.
Yes they don't play by the same rules.
But we do have rules that we play by.
As a soldier or a officer of the law.
You sign up knowing that you will be tested and you need to maintain the rules. values and morals that America lives by and stands for.
So assaulting a hostage is not ok, and the police beating the shit out of people is not ok.

And just like the Burbank police department is under investigation by the FBI for all kinds of abuse and violations of our laws,
the Seals are under investigation and will have to answer to breaking our laws and rules.


The Seals should maintain restraint and be happy with the fact that this fucker is walking the green mile just like Sadaam did.
Its hard, but thats why they are there.
Thats why they are some of our best.
So they need to act like it.

I do hope all they get is a slap on the wrist.





Soooooo, is Somolia next on our list??
(they could use our help)

[soreballz]

i don't think that people realize that you can only "play by the rules" when both sides adhere to them.
Just in case anyone missed this...

imagine watching a football game where the defense just constantly tackled the opposing quarterback; before, during, after the snap, in the huddle, during timeouts, during halftime, in the shower, , on the way to the team bus, on the way home, while he's trying to sleep, etc. it's not football. guerilla warfare is not traditional warfare. the way that this war is going.... it's not going to work.

lol, excellent analogy.

[SimpleS14]

Reality vs America

There, I fixed it for you. I'm not really sure what side you're on Brian, one minute you sound like you think the charges are a joke, the next it sounds like you wanna give Mr. Terrorist a hug.

Brian is just instigating and at times being sarcastic.

I don't think this war can be won. Terrorism doesn't have a face. You can't just look at someone and see that they're the bad guy. It's an idea, and anyone that believes the idea is capable of being a terrorist.

That's a good point. In that context, this "war" will be an ongoing thing as it will be approach at in different situations.

[ericcastro]

i don't think that people realize that you can only "play by the rules" when both sides adhere to them.


Just in case anyone missed this...


Not true at all.
Using this thought process, we should just start shooting and killing everyone over there. blowing buildings up.
Beheading people in the street.
using nerve gas on mass amounts of people.
and all kinds of fucked up shit......

We as a nation, need to continue to set an example and show that the Geneva Convention is the way to go about things and have other countries sign up.

You cant have everyone throw out the rules till the entire world is ready.

The LA riots are a perfect example of your "theory".
The police that beat rodney king didnt play by the rules, so the rest of LA decided not to either, and burned and looted half the fucking city.

[NismoDriverS13]

If this was Russian spetsnaz, they would drag him by his turban, beat him, torture and whatever would be left afterwards would be brought to court. then he would probably be thrown into a cell far far away in some crazy old prison and be tortured everyday of his life till he dies.

I think American government is a little too light on punishments. I can't believe that they care so much about some fucked up dude that had killed and tortured. It doesnt matter how he was captured and how he was treated as long as he was brought to justice and everything else is whatevers!!!

[Sleepy240]

I think American government is a little too light on punishments. I can't believe that they care so much about some fucked up dude that had killed and tortured. It doesnt matter how he was captured and how he was treated as long as he was brought to justice and everything else is whatevers!!!

See this is where I think a lot of people go wrong. To be honest its not that they care at all about the guy, its about doing things the RIGHT way. What he did is irrelevant, they captured him, end of story, there is no reason to beat him. America is held in such high regard across the globe because of the way we handle situations, especially ones where other countries would fall short. To me all this does is tarnish some of the spectacular things US Soldiers have accomplished, by making us look no better than what they have/could have done to prisoners.

[rb26man]

See this is where I think a lot of people go wrong. To be honest its not that they care at all about the guy, its about doing things the RIGHT way. What he did is irrelevant, they captured him, end of story, there is no reason to beat him. America is held in such high regard across the globe because of the way we handle situations, especially ones where other countries would fall short. To me all this does is tarnish some of the spectacular things US Soldiers have accomplished, by making us look no better than what they have/could have done to prisoners.


i truly agree ive been deployed 3 times and i can say shit is tuff out there but that gives no reason to beat or harm anyone...yes i do understand that this person has hurt numerous people but us going down to their level and doing reckless bs is just giving us (U.S.) a bad name and makes all the good things we done fly out the window...and for those soldiers on here respect your branch and your uniform watch what you say...

[Brian]

Reality vs America

There, I fixed it for you. I'm not really sure what side you're on Brian, one minute you sound like you think the charges are a joke, the next it sounds like you wanna give Mr. Terrorist a hug.

:(



I 100% think the charges are a joke.

[TheGrim]

See this is where I think a lot of people go wrong. To be honest its not that they care at all about the guy, its about doing things the RIGHT way. What he did is irrelevant, they captured him, end of story, there is no reason to beat him. America is held in such high regard across the globe because of the way we handle situations, especially ones where other countries would fall short. To me all this does is tarnish some of the spectacular things US Soldiers have accomplished, by making us look no better than what they have/could have done to prisoners.

ive done a tour in basra and baghdad... for the most part, countries mock us and laugh at us from the outside looking in. Brits especially make fun of us. for the people that have never left the country, they will never truly understand or know how it really is besides what the media says.

i truly agree ive been deployed 3 times and i can say shit is tuff out there but that gives no reason to beat or harm anyone...yes i do understand that this person has hurt numerous people but us going down to their level and doing reckless bs is just giving us (U.S.) a bad name and makes all the good things we done fly out the window...and for those soldiers on here respect your branch and your uniform watch what you say...

true, but we are still only human.

[Ben G]

Whether you like it or not, what those soldiers did WAS wrong. Not just by America's standards, by the majority of the worlds standards. That is the cost of being a world power and imposing your views and systems on other countries. If anything soldiers (just like law enforcement) should be held to a higher standard as somebody who is protecting and fighting for our freedom and protecting our rights. You can't play devils advocate and preach fair trials, due process and then go and abuse a prisoner and expect no repercussions. America is held to a higher standard, just like it should be, mostly for doing the RIGHT thing.

What would you honestly do in that situation.... You're on what your second or third tour a few of your brothers as ThatGuy put it have died, what would you honestly do? Im sure you have been hit in the face before, how long did it take you to recover? You have just looked at both sides now these charges are a joke, You know they are doing the same to us as well as everyone else not everyone plays by all the rules it just doesn't work that way, if it did world leaders would be having tea parties instead of us being over there in the first place.