Custom PC Computer build / Prebuilt Techie Discussion

[Daniel.]

Yes, there have been a ton of computer related threads lately, but I want to make this one become more of an ongoing discussion for those of us a bit more technical than the rest.

Personally I've been debating on going custom built or prebuilt for my next rig.

I've previously custom built 2 rigs before in the Pentium4 days.
I currently use a prebuilt Hp Pavilion with a P4 3.4HT with some upgrades.

It's time for a new PC as this one is now slow as balls and is nearly 4 years old.
With the prices of prebuilt systems being so low and affordable, why should I custom build another PC?

I only use my computer for some gaming, internet and lots and lots of photo editing. I don't download music or movies and I probably wouldn't use it as a HTPC.

So I basically have two questions, should I go prebuilt or custom and should I get an i7 or a Core2 Quad?


I'm really on the fence on whether or not I need/want a Core i7 system.
Pros
-Faster
-Better for gaming with multiple GPU's
-won't be phased out for a long time

Cons
-cost prohibitive

Would I even be able to take advantage of the speed in an i7 rig with Photoshop? Is it worth the extra 300-400 bucks?

Should I just get a bare bones i7 system now, and save my money till the cost of DDR3 goes down?

One major thing about the prebuilt systems is that they come with W7 installed. I'd have to front the cost of the OS separately if I went custom again.

Sorry, If my post was all over the place. I'm really scatter brained this morning and haven't had my coffee yet.

[SochBAT]

Sadly, the price of prebuild machines are a lot better on the wallet than DIY setups.

Premade, upgrade.

[Mangudai]

Its really a decision that you'll have to make on your own. Analyze the price/performance ratio between the two and decide. Besides that, you can build a computer cheaper than a prebuilt if you catch deals and buy used. Just take your time and decide, also how long do you need it to last you? How many games do you play, what games coming out do you plan to play? What resolution? These are questions you gotta ask yourself.


Curious, what price point are you looking at?

There are many sites that have direct comparisons to show performance difference, here's one


http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts/benchmarks,60.html



Also, have you considered i5?

[Daniel.]

This is kinda broad, but I'm looking to spend between 500 and 1k.

To be honest, I could wait and hunt for the best deals, but I don't think I have the patience for it haha.

My current system has lasted me about 4 years so I'd say this new one would probably have to last me AT LEAST 2-3 years.

I don't really play computer games that often anymore. I used to play WoW a bunch and the only games I see myself playing in the future would be Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2. They don't seem to be too graphics intensive compared to COD4, Far Cry or Crysis.

I'd most likely be playing at 1920x1200.

My personal situation aside, what's everyone's thoughts on the Core i7/i5 line of chips?

Isn't Intel also working to integrate a GPU controller into their new 35nm chips?

[evmal613]

Prebuilt systems are easier on the wallet for sure, and easier maintainence. I currently have a hp prebuilt with a phenom x4, and barely costs me anything. I work as a pc technician, and honestly I get more headaches from custom builts than anything else. You never know how custom builts were put together and in the end seems to cause more problems. Like what people have been saying, prebuilt is alot more cost effective, especially since gaming is occasional. Upgrade prebuilt, ram, cpu, gpu, hd, etc. Its just as easy. One thing I dont like is that the memory is one of the lowest fsb ratings. For instance when pc2-8400 is out, i get the pc2-6400. Its cheaper to SAY there is 8 gb's then 8 gb's of 1066 memory. haha. overall though, prebuilt is recommended for the price and performance you want. 500-1k is great for a prebuilt unit, HP is selling one wit the i7 for 999.99 on their website, check it out

[SimpleS14]

Go with a pre-built that is upgradable.

I can't speak for the i5/i7 because my current PC is a custom built unit with a Core 2 Quad, and its more than enough for me. I don't play games, but I do use Photoshop.

[Daniel.]

So this is what I've built at Hp for $932

Operating system - Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Processor - Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3 cache]
Memory - FREE UPGRADE! 9GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [5 DIMMs] from 8GB
Hard drive - 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive edit
Graphics card - 1GB ATI Radeon HD 4650 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
Primary optical drive - LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
Networking - Premium Wireless-N LAN card
Front Productivity Ports - 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
TV & entertainment experience - No TV Tuner w/remote control
Sound Card Integrated 7.1 channel sound with front audio ports
Speakers No speakers
Keyboard and Mouse HP multimedia keyboard and HP optical mouse
Productivity software Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
Security software Norton Internet Security(TM) 2010 - 15 month

On a setup like this, how easy would it be to replace the mobo at a later date?

Could I just get a new one, swap over everything and be good to go?

What about potential bloatware on the OS from HP? Can I get rid of that somehow?

Prebuilt systems are easier on the wallet for sure, and easier maintainence. I currently have a hp prebuilt with a phenom x4, and barely costs me anything. I work as a pc technician, and honestly I get more headaches from custom builts than anything else. You never know how custom builts were put together and in the end seems to cause more problems. Like what people have been saying, prebuilt is alot more cost effective, especially since gaming is occasional. Upgrade prebuilt, ram, cpu, gpu, hd, etc. Its just as easy. One thing I dont like is that the memory is one of the lowest fsb ratings. For instance when pc2-8400 is out, i get the pc2-6400. Its cheaper to SAY there is 8 gb's then 8 gb's of 1066 memory. haha. overall though, prebuilt is recommended for the price and performance you want. 500-1k is great for a prebuilt unit, HP is selling one wit the i7 for 999.99 on their website, check it out

I'm reading that on a Core i7 rig, 1333mhz mem is definitely a plus over 1066. I wish DDR3 was cheaper right now...

[aznpoopy]

custom.

fuck prebuilts and their shitty components and their shitty layouts. the only good prebuilt i ever had was a 400mhz p2 dell from like 1998. everything on that computer still works today. on every other prebuilt i ever got, retarded shit fails left and right. reader on optical drive got stuck. video card fan spun itself out of the fan casing. hard drive bearing went bad. etc. etc. etc.

just because a prebuilt and custom have matching specs doesn't mean they are equal. quality of the actual components (see above) and layout of the build (inclusion of case fans, size of cpu fan, thinking about airflow) is all stuff that doesn't get advertised. so it usually sucks. i had one prebuilt that arrived with the cpu fan doubling as the case fan. hilarious.

[Daniel.]

Could I remove everything from a prebuilt case and just install all of it in my own case and add fans?

[aznpoopy]

i don't see why not.

things may not fit, line up with holes, plug connectors to the case might be different etc. but that's simple problem solving... drilling, wiring, etc.

well, that's assuming the motherboard will support the extra fans you plan to use.

[Vision Garage]

Why would do take everything from a prebuilt only to replace it again? its like a car. Better to do it right the first time. I myself would rather custom a computer over prebuilt any day. If you know your shit, you can get your custom for cheaper and with better quality parts for sure.

heres a custom from tigerdirect which will kill the HP one your customized. Cost a bit more but the parts are worth it.

ASUS P6T Intel X58 Barebone Kit - Socket LGA1366, Intel Core i7 920, 12GB Corsair DDR3-1600, 1.5TB SATA2, Clear Side ATX Mid-Tower, 750W at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4601609&CatId=333)

[Vision Garage]

and one in your price range.

XFX X58i Core i7 LGA1366 Barebone Kit - Intel Core i7 920 CPU 2.66GHz, 12GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, Full-Tower Case, 750 Watt PSU at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5394512&CatId=4149)

[aznpoopy]

^werd^

just saw these q's

On a setup like this, how easy would it be to replace the mobo at a later date?

Could I just get a new one, swap over everything and be good to go?

What about potential bloatware on the OS from HP? Can I get rid of that somehow?


it depends. dell and hp, etc. dell/hp/etc. often go with proprietary plugs, fitment, etc. instead of industry standard. so new motherboard in a hp/dell case? dell - no. hp - maybe. i would guess probably not. 1) it probably wont fit in the case and 2) you probably wont be able to plug it in (power supply being a big one - they sell dell to atx power supply adapters).

read this:
InformIT: Dell proprietary (non-standard) ATX design > Dell proprietary (non-standard) ATX design (http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=339053)

bloatware? uninstall it. all of it. or just do a fresh install of the OS right from the start. if you didn't receive a copy of it from dell/hp/etc with the computer, you should be able to request one, often for free or a nominal fee.

[Daniel.]

^werd^

just saw these q's



it depends. dell and hp, etc. dell/hp/etc. often go with proprietary plugs, fitment, etc. instead of industry standard. so new motherboard in a hp/dell case? dell - no. hp - maybe. i would guess probably not. 1) it probably wont fit in the case and 2) you probably wont be able to plug it in (power supply being a big one - they sell dell to atx power supply adapters).

read this:
InformIT: Dell proprietary (non-standard) ATX design > Dell proprietary (non-standard) ATX design (http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=339053)

bloatware? uninstall it. all of it. or just do a fresh install of the OS right from the start. if you didn't receive a copy of it from dell/hp/etc with the computer, you should be able to request one, often for free or a nominal fee.

Cool, thanks. That's really helpful. :)

and one in your price range.

XFX X58i Core i7 LGA1366 Barebone Kit - Intel Core i7 920 CPU 2.66GHz, 12GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, Full-Tower Case, 750 Watt PSU at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5394512&CatId=4149)

Thanks, I totally forgot about Tiger Direct. I've been shopping on Newegg for the past couple of weeks.

That's a great price for the rig. Only thing is, I'd still be responsible for a video card and the OS. That's about another $120 for W7 Home Premium, and probably around $100 for an entry level graphics card...

I also need a Compact Flash internal card reader to dump my photos onto. Maybe tack on another $20?

It'd be manageable for my budget, but the less I spend, the better.

[Om1kron]

Sadly, the price of prebuild machines are a lot better on the wallet than DIY setups.

Premade, upgrade.

FOR FUCKING REAL

I was just telling my roommate staples has a dell desktop with an amd athlon x2 3.6ghz 4gig ram raedon 3200 integrated graphics and 360gig hd with a 21 inch widescreen monitor all in one box for 600 bucks.

with windows 7 home edition

fuck me.

I would literally just have to put my graphics card in that box and I'm reads to go.

I'm also looking at upgrading and it's not looking cheap. I want at least 8 gigs of ram if not 16. (i do a lot of photoshop work.)

[Om1kron]

also imo windows 7 professional edition is all anyone should need. the ultimate edition just has security options that seriously are not even necessary for a home machine.

[Vision Garage]

daniel, if you are looking for something that will do the job but wont break your bank, I would rather you get an AMD processor. Yes they are not up to par with intel but AMD is more geared the budget minded. You wouldnt really be able to tell teh difference unless you are a real hardcore gamer.

On that note...

Asus M4A785-M Phenom X4 9750 Barebone Kit - AMD Phenom X4 9750 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR2, 750GB HDD, XFX Radeon HD 4350, DVDRW, ATX Case, 650 Watt PSU, Windows 7 Home Premium OEM at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5472270&CatId=3508)

[Future240]

daniel, if you are looking for something that will do the job but wont break your bank, I would rather you get an AMD processor. Yes they are not up to par with intel but AMD is more geared the budget minded. You wouldnt really be able to tell teh difference unless you are a real hardcore gamer.

On that note...

Asus M4A785-M Phenom X4 9750 Barebone Kit - AMD Phenom X4 9750 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR2, 750GB HDD, XFX Radeon HD 4350, DVDRW, ATX Case, 650 Watt PSU, Windows 7 Home Premium OEM at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5472270&CatId=3508)

I agree whole heartedly with this. A good MB(Asrock works great for me) with a Phenom II 940/955/965 processor, 4GBS of 1066 ram(Gskill) and a Radeon( I prefer HIS) 5870 will do you real good.

[Bobadrift]

I'm currently in the middle of building a new PC and I decided to use the Shuttle SX58-H7. I'm not a hardcore gamer so a cube PC works for me.
For parts I would look at Ewiz (Superbiiz), Newegg, Tigerdirect, and Amazon. So far the cheapest I've seen is Ewiz for parts.
I'm not building an ultimate gaming machine, but rather one I can use for multiple functions including Blu-Ray playback for my LCD TV.

[bardabe]

Windows 7 Ultimate, get it you will love it, I love it. Ive only been running it for about 3 days but it fuckin rules.

[Future240]

Windows 7 Ultimate, get it you will love it, I love it. Ive only been running it for about 3 days but it fuckin rules.

I agree with this, I have been running it since October 27th and this shit is great.

[Daniel.]

Thanks for the links fellas.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that a prebuilt with room to upgrade is the right choice for my budget.

Oh and, bardabe and future, I'm not sure if you guys are trying to close me on W7 or W7 Ultimate specifically, but I've already decided on W7 Home.

I don't need any of the additional features on Ult. Bitlocker encryption? No thanks.

[Gnnr]

custom.

fuck prebuilts and their shitty components and their shitty layouts. the only good prebuilt i ever had was a 400mhz p2 dell from like 1998. everything on that computer still works today. on every other prebuilt i ever got, retarded shit fails left and right. reader on optical drive got stuck. video card fan spun itself out of the fan casing. hard drive bearing went bad. etc. etc. etc.

just because a prebuilt and custom have matching specs doesn't mean they are equal. quality of the actual components (see above) and layout of the build (inclusion of case fans, size of cpu fan, thinking about airflow) is all stuff that doesn't get advertised. so it usually sucks. i had one prebuilt that arrived with the cpu fan doubling as the case fan. hilarious.

This is true. The reason that prebuilt systems are so cheap is because they have contracts with manufactures to mass produce specific components for them. But they are usually cheap in quality.

Read this if you're going custom

Ars System Guide: October 2009 Edition - Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/10/ars-system-guide-october-2009-edition.ars)

[SimpleS14]

Thanks for the links fellas.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that a prebuilt with room to upgrade is the right choice for my budget.

Oh and, bardabe and future, I'm not sure if you guys are trying to close me on W7 or W7 Ultimate specifically, but I've already decided on W7 Home.

I don't need any of the additional features on Ult. Bitlocker encryption? No thanks.

It's good that you've made up your mind.

Windows 7 Home Premium is good enough for you.

[Future240]

It's good that you've made up your mind.

Windows 7 Home Premium is good enough for you.

Agreed,

just make sure you get the 64 bit version.

[Daniel.]

Of course! I wouldn't purposely handicap myself at a 4gb ram limit with the 32bit. :)

[unlegendary]

if u want a custom build, get all your hardware parts NON integrated because anything integrated is not efficient and more $$ from your wallet to upgrade. if you're gonna run vista or windows 7 premium while being a gaming nerd, then you're gonna have run minimum 3 gigs of memory.

[BOROSUN]

no point getting 5800 yet. i went with 4870 until dx11 starts heating up and 5800 price lowers.

I would get the 5700 runs the same spec as 4800's and a cheap dx11 card.

also the 956 price just got lower. ddr3 all the way

[Mangudai]

For $1000 and your needs I say definitely build an AMD rig, actually I could probably pull if an i7 if you price it right. An i7 920 and a 4670 together don't make any sense though. Whether or not going 5800 is really up to the person. There are many different variables.

[Daniel.]

Everyone keeps forgetting that if I go custom, I have to purchase the OS too...

[SimpleS14]

Everyone keeps forgetting that if I go custom, I have to purchase the OS too...


Everyone keeps forgetting that you made up your mind already :keke:

[Vision Garage]

what did you decide on? And Pm about the OS!! ;)

[Future240]

Everyone keeps forgetting that you made up your mind already :keke:

I was wondering why everyone keep trying to get him to decide.

[Daniel.]

So I ended up getting this
Newegg.com - HP Pavilion Elite E9270F(AU917AA#ABA) Intel Core i7 860(2.80GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB ATI Radeon HD 4650 Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - Desktop PCs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147039&Tpk=e9270f)

off of the Hp website for like $950.

I got that over the e9280f because of the mobo it ships with.
The e9270f ships with an MSI mobo vs the Pegatron mobo the e9280f ships with.

Users have reported BSODS and frequent hangups due to the faulty chipset on the Pegatron.

The box arrives tomorrow. woot.
I'm gonna get Dragon Age Origins this weekend and take it for a spin.

[Future240]

So I ended up getting this
Newegg.com - HP Pavilion Elite E9270F(AU917AA#ABA) Intel Core i7 860(2.80GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB ATI Radeon HD 4650 Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - Desktop PCs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147039&Tpk=e9270f)

off of the Hp website for like $950.

I got that over the e9280f because of the mobo it ships with.
The e9270f ships with an MSI mobo vs the Pegatron mobo the e9280f ships with.

Users have reported BSODS and frequent hangups due to the faulty chipset on the Pegatron.

The box arrives tomorrow. woot.
I'm gonna get Dragon Age Origins this weekend and take it for a spin.

Link no worky

You lucked up, it is now listed at 1099. That is a pretty good setup. Graphics card is a bit on the weaksauce side.

[Daniel.]

Try this link.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/rts_desktop/rts_desktop//3/storefronts/AU917AA%2523ABA

I got a bit of an additional discount due to the EPP discount on HP.com which could explain why after tax the whole thing came out to $1040.

The graphics card is totally weaksauce, but I'll probably end up getting a new one within 12months anyways.

[zenki.life]

what application is the computer for if it was not already mentioned.

[heavenboundkevin]

how far computer hardware has come in 3 yrs amazes me.

[Daniel.]

I only use my computer for some gaming, internet and lots and lots of photo editing. I don't download music or movies and I probably wouldn't use it as a HTPC.



Original post.

[Future240]

Try this link.

HP® Official Store — Buy the HP Pavilion Elite e9270f Desktop PC direct from HP (http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/rts_desktop/rts_desktop//3/storefronts/AU917AA%2523ABA)

I got a bit of an additional discount due to the EPP discount on HP.com which could explain why after tax the whole thing came out to $1040.

The graphics card is totally weaksauce, but I'll probably end up getting a new one within 12months anyways.

AMD HIS Radeon 5870 nuff said.

[Daniel.]

Wow. That thing only draws 27w at idle. That's pretty impressive. It draws 188w under load though and requires two 6pin connectors.

It's nearly half the cost of my new desktop haha. I'll probably just upgrade to an HD 4890 next year once they drop below $100.

EDIT: On second thought, the 5850 looks pretty attractive at $250 considering it is also DX11 capable. Hmmmmmmmmmm choices, choices.

[Future240]

I have a HIS 4850 right now, 3 weeks later the 4870 was the same price I paid for the 4850.

[BOROSUN]

dood the 5770 is cheaper than the 4890 and its dx11.


im running 3.5ghz on my stock fan 955 BE. amd rocks

[DataXUnknown]

Can anyone recommend a very good graphics card? I'm running the nVidia GeForce 7600 GS, on a AMD Athlon Dual Core Processor 5600+ with 2 gb of ram. I can run a lot of games, but I just put Tomb Raider on my computer at it runs pretty laggy. Also I'm using W7.

I'm looking for a card to play games such as need for speed, at full graphics smoothly. Or would that require a bit more upgrading than just the card.

[Daniel.]

Which need for speed game?

What resolution?

What's your budget?

What are the specs of your computer right now?

Anything is an upgrade from your 7600gs to be honest haha. The only limitation I can see would be the power supply. If you've got an older prebuilt or older power supply, it may not be able to sufficiently power everything + your brand new graphics card.

[aznpoopy]

Can anyone recommend a very good graphics card? I'm running the nVidia GeForce 7600 GS, on a AMD Athlon Dual Core Processor 5600+ with 2 gb of ram. I can run a lot of games, but I just put Tomb Raider on my computer at it runs pretty laggy. Also I'm using W7.

I'm looking for a card to play games such as need for speed, at full graphics smoothly. Or would that require a bit more upgrading than just the card.

first, i would suggest 4gb ram minimum.

as for the video card, read this and pick one out based on your needs and your budget.

Best Graphics Cards For The Money: November '09 : October Review And November Updates - Review Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2464.html)

[DataXUnknown]

Which need for speed game?

What resolution?

What's your budget?

What are the specs of your computer right now?

Anything is an upgrade from your 7600gs to be honest haha. The only limitation I can see would be the power supply. If you've got an older prebuilt or older power supply, it may not be able to sufficiently power everything + your brand new graphics card.

Pretty much any recent NFS game on 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution. My budget, I can swoop up to $250 or so for a good one. Specs of my computer right now:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5600+ 2.80Ghz
2GB of Ram
1TB Harddrive
nVidia GeForce 7600 GS graphics card

As for the power supply, it says it supports 200w (220w peak). I don't know if theres anything else I need to include besides the Windows 7 operating system (not the x64 one though)

And I'm checkin' out the website now thanks :)

*EDIT*
So I checked the site, and I'm thinkin about getting 2 more gb of ram making 4gb total (as suggested) and lookin at the Radeon HD 5850. I don't like the idea of running 2 cards in crossfire

[BOROSUN]

yeah, upgrade that psu. if you want to run 5850.

w7 32bit is only gonna run 3gb or was it 3.25gb