Tonights Battle: Synthetic vs Conventional Oil!!

[twitchy]

I am looking for some opinions...

Who uses synthetic oil religiously?

Who thinks the only difference between synthetic and regular oil is about 4 bucks a liter?

Who mixes the two?

Who puts in whatever they can afford during that period?

What about the myths, like you cant switch back and forth, or its bad to mix synthetic and conventional

What have you all heard? What do you all think? What brands do you like?

Personally, I use both at the same time, at least 50% synthetic.

Post your comments!

[Halz]

http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000544.html

1. I do

2. I don't

3. I don't

4. I don't

5. I don't believe them

6. Some other forum threads, and some Nasa engineer's website which I can't rember right now. I think therefore I am. I like Mobile 1, Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple.

...I am very tired, and shouldn't even be posting.. I think i'll go to sleep now.

[DuffMan]

Synthetic oil is good, but you really have to start using it when the car is new or relatively young. I put it in my old KA and it started consuming oil. Not a ton of oil, but it wasn't consuming any before the switch.

[twitchy]

yah, funny you say that, my dads got a 97 Civic Si (Canadian)

and he put in synth and it started to...well...disappear.

It wasnt leaking or burning (ie you never saw smoke) but it was going somewhere.

If your engine burns oil, and you put in synthetic, is it still blue smoke?

[AKADriver]

yeah, synth still burns blue.

I'd say synth is mandatory for a high-performance turbo car. If you're cranking up the boost and heating up that turbo you need oil that can take it.

For N/A... I run dino oil or synth blend in my 240SX, because that's what it's always had.

Oil consumption in an old engine switched to synth isn't the fault of the synth, it's the fault of normal wear that junk in the dino oil has been plugging up. Funny thing too... when I put dino oil in my VR6 after the previous owner had used only synth, it started consuming oil. Back to synth and no problems...

[240Driver39]

Just another thing, isnt it not suggested at all to mix synthetic oil and dino oil. U say u use 50/50...im thinkin thats not a good idea at all. I may be wrong on this, but i dont think so..put one or the other in there, but not both.

[twitchy]

well they do sell synthetic blend, and I mean, its getting churned up in there a lot so I figure it all mixes in good.

Anyone notice better fuel mileage with synth like me?

[Lonnie_J]

i was told that redline and mobil one are the only true synthetic oils made . Since redline is not sold in Canada i use mobil one if im using synthetic oil

[uiuc240]

Amsoil and Motul are 100% synthetic, just to name two.

In fact, Mobil has recently started making more blends (check your bottle before buying).

Eric

[AKADriver]

The difference is in the base stock... PAO vs. Group III.

PAO or Group IV is full synthetic. Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil, and Royal Purple use this base stock.

Group III is normal mineral oil that's "hydrocracked" and messed around with... Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Synthetic, Valvoline Synthetic all use this base stock.

The Group III "fake" synthetics still hold some performance advantages at high temperatures over regular cheap oil. The Group IV full synthetics win over regular oil at LOW temperatures, and are even better than the Group III at high temperatures too.

The best deal going in oil right now are the cheap synthetic blends, because, really, they're just as good as the Group III "synthetics". This is what I run in my 240SX, and the oil holds up well even after track use.

[pinoydrifter]

I religiously use redline pure synthetic! I just think it is better for your engine in the long run. Just my belief..... also I think it is good to use a synthetic when you are constantly pushing your engine. It is a little more expensive, but I think it is worth it.

[kandyflip445]

Considering that all Oil makers use different amounts of different additives in different oils they make...I don't think it's that good of an idea. I'm might not hurt much but oil companies measure out and test their additives. Mixing oils might hinder the oils ability to contain contaminants, clean contaminants, lubricate properly at different temperatures, or other things. But this is just my opinion. I'll be using Redline when I get a new oil pan(mine is dented from the prev. owner....)

[sykikchimp]

I use amsoil 10w30 every 3000 miles b/c I'm anal when it comes to my car, and all my research, and experience says that **** rocks.

[ca18guy]

I changed my old ca engine oil to synth. and 2 weeks later the engine blew :o
I don't blame the oil though, it just accelerated the inpending doom of a worn engine :(

[adey]

I run synthetic (mobil 1 supersyn), but have been considering changing to a dino oil or some sort of synthetic blend for a while now.

Although I don't burn now using my $4/quart mobil stuff (not sure what the old owner used), I'm worried that if I switch to dino and then at a later date decide to switch back to syn, that I may then begin to burn or blow a gasket or something. Something to do with the syn particles being smaller, and fitting into cracks in gaskets/metal/whatever that dino oil particles wouldn't fit into... I don't know. Whatever.

When it comes down to it though, I imagine I'll end up sticking to using SYN; I drive my car hard a lot, and feel that the almost 4* difference in price, although a lot, is a small price to pay for my peace of mind and the (little?) extra protection that it undoubtedly provides.

[Jeff240sx]

It's all about the wear scar that's created. There is a reason that you DO NOT break in motors with synthetic oil... and that's because the parts can't wear into place correctly. GM did that in the early C5 Corvettes, and problems occured.
Now.. the myths of switching back and fourth.
Synthetic provides superior protection. Mobil 1, for instance, provides better lubrication at 20,000 miles of use *(changing filters regularly)* than dino oil provides new. It's because the polymer bonds don't get broken down in synthetic over time, because they're engineered bonds. The polymers do get broken down in dino oil very fast... and cheaper brand dino oil should get changed at about 2000 miles, and normal (castrol, penzoil, ect.) can run to about 3000 miles.
So, with the lubrication benefits of synthetic, you can swap from synthetic to dino oil without a problem. The dino oil will protect less, and wear will occur. Once the wear has occured, you CANNOT swap back to synthetic. Synthetic oil is very thin, and gets in between parts very easily. If there is a wear scar somewhere, the synthetic will simply run through it. This happens alot in the piston-to-cylinder contact areas, and that is why some people see oil consumption after switching to synthetic. Also, the thin synthetic will run between bad seals and gaskets fairly easily, showing a problem that wasn't noticed with dino oil.
I think I got most everything there...
-Jeff

[twofortyZ]

Mobil 1 user here.

One thing you might look at is the trouble that Ford has had out of the Lightning series trucks (supercharged - heavy - lots of heat). I was reading some of the posts on one of their boards, and a LOT of people were getting engines replaced under warranty etc. Finally, one of the members got tired of it, tore down his own engine and found that the "coating" (?) was coming off the pistons and landing in the pan, resulting in loose bores etc. The reason for telling all of this: they noticed that nobody had this problem when they were running Mobil 1.

Also, on motorcycles I have noticed that some synthetics tend to "search" and cause a little leakage that was not there running dino oil. I always thought that is what caused the increase in consumption until I read the previous "wear scar" description, which makes more sence.

[Dousan_PG]

amsoil 20w50
switch to syn around 120K miles. now at 167 and running strong
change VERY regularly (every month to every other depending how many track events-yeah maybe too much but i feel so much more cmfortable)

cost? eh..cheap for me. friend is amsoil dealer! :p

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by twofortyZ
Also, on motorcycles I have noticed that some synthetics tend to "search" and cause a little leakage that was not there running dino oil. I always thought that is what caused the increase in consumption until I read the previous "wear scar" description, which makes more sence.

See.. synthetic is a thinner oil, but will protect like a thicker oil. And since it's so thin, it will leak through seals or gaskets that aren't "bad" on thick dino oil, but synthetic will leak out. Just replace those gaskets/seals, and you're good.
-Jeff

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by dousan36
amsoil 20w50
switch to syn around 120K miles. now at 167 and running strong
change VERY regularly (every month to every other depending how many track events-yeah maybe too much but i feel so much more cmfortable)

cost? eh..cheap for me. friend is amsoil dealer! :p

I'll probably start running 20w50 this summer for track events.

[transient]

Basically what it seems like to me, is that everyone (after break-in) should be using synth. Even the fact that it leaks through small cracks in gaskets etc could be a good thing because it will point out problems faster than dino oil would.

[orange-grey]

Bought my '91 with 85k miles from an old lady who took it to Wal-Mart for service. :eek: It was 2 quarts low when I bought it and the oil was chunky and f'n nasy. Somehow thinking I'd be getting an SR in a few months anyway, I bought it. I've since put 23k more miles on it. Ran 5W-30 Mobil1 the first change and it just gobbled up oil. I think I burned a quart every 1000. Put in 15w-50 Mobil1 and now it burns about a quart every 1500. Haven't bothered trying dino juice since I'd happily burn a little oil just and know that at least my main bearings will be happy. I just used some ring and piston cleaner, the kind where you pour 4 oz. in each cylinder, let it sit for 2 hours, then crank it with plugs out to blow all the crap out. Very nasty. The car left an Uncle Buck style cloud around town as it burned all the **** out! Results pending, but so far so good.

[Halz]

Another interesting thread.. http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185731

[Got Sileighty?]

i have an idea, i dunno if its been brought up before. synth is thinner than dino, right? now lets say im using 5w30 dino oil. if i switch to 20w50 synth, would that still cause leaks? cuz 20w50 would be pretty thick, wouldnt it?

i also have a question....whats the advantage/disadvantage of going synth blend? itll probably lubricate better, but will it allow you to switch back and forth to dino or full synth?

[fleaf]

I don't think there is a universal oil that can solve all engine problems. Just like people, every engine is different and put through different abuse, therefore having different types of wear. As long as you put in something thats name brand, whether it be synthetic or conventional like amsoil, valvoline, redline, penzoil, you will be fine. Oil companies can pretty much say anything they want and there is no way to surely test their promises.

[twitchy]

here are some considerations, what does everyone think?

1) 5W30 synth and 5W30 dino.. Synth is NOT thinner, cause 5W30 and 5W30 are the same weights

2) See the stamp on the bottle of oil? It says something like APA CERTIFIED on it. This is found on all engine oil. What I was told by my mkechanic is that that means it offers a government set level of protection, and he says that for all intents and purposes, the no name 99 cent stuff up to the $7 per liter synth will do the same thing

3) there are only a few oil manufacturers to name, meaning that your canadian tire motomaster oil is probably castrol or quakerstate, same with any other "no name" oil

I dont know whether I agree or disagree with any or all of these....what you all think?

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by twitchy
here are some considerations, what does everyone think?

1) 5W30 synth and 5W30 dino.. Synth is NOT thinner, cause 5W30 and 5W30 are the same weights

2) See the stamp on the bottle of oil? It says something like APA CERTIFIED on it. This is found on all engine oil. What I was told by my mkechanic is that that means it offers a government set level of protection, and he says that for all intents and purposes, the no name 99 cent stuff up to the $7 per liter synth will do the same thing

3) there are only a few oil manufacturers to name, meaning that your canadian tire motomaster oil is probably castrol or quakerstate, same with any other "no name" oil

I dont know whether I agree or disagree with any or all of these....what you all think?

The mechanic that you talk to is a dip****.
1) Synth is thinner, because that weight is a "protects like" weight... so a thinner oil that protects like a thicker oil would be labeled as the same, thicker weight.

2) Yep. There is a certain level of protection that MUST be met in order to be used in an auto. It doesn't mean that oil manufacturers get to that level and stop. That's the difference between $.99 oil and $7.00 oil. Just because someone is ASE certified doesn't mean that ASE is as good as a mechanic will get. Once you hit ASE, you can go through manufacturers, like Nissan and BMW to get certifications. Same thing... You can get the bare minimum.. or you can go all out.

3) Yea. Like Purolator makes NAPA oil filters. Then you go to the refinement stage. Cheap "Duplex" brand oil is basically recycled oil, strained with a magnet, run through filters, and gets more polymer bonds to meet oil requirements. Meanwhile, the "Brand Name" oils are made from one of the first cracks on the crude oil. Oil is like all oils. Extra Virgin olive oil is much better than Store-Brand olive oil... and "Extra Virgin" motor oil is much better than an oil that is cracked later. There are also many cracking procedures that vary in price and product. Pay more, get better stuff. It's not a gimmick.

I'm not an oil expert... but I've read a bit about it. If these are your theories, then I hope I set you straight. If these are your mechanic's thoughts... stop talking to him, because he's dumb.
-Jeff

[misnomer]

Geeze twitch, you're just lookin' for fights :P

All oils are not created equal, even when it comes to comparing conventional motor oils. Within conventional oils you have two major types. Parrifin (wax) based oils like Quaker State and Penzoil are generally ungood. They will protect OK, but when they break down, they will leave a waxy buildup. These oils MUST be changed at proper intervals. Other conventionals can last 5000 miles just fine under normal driving (spirited driving, you'd want to change more frequently). If any of you are old enough (or have dads old enough), motor oil was originally a 7000 mile job, before the Jiffy Lubes of the world sprang up.

APA and other government standards set the lower bound for performance.

And you're right about the oil manufacturers. Most house brands tend to be Penzoil ('cept Car Quest, they use Valvoline. . .)

[twitchy]

Originally posted by twitchy

I dont know whether I agree or disagree with any or all of these....what you all think?

heh...should have rephrased this to "I DONT agree with all of these.."

I was just looking for opinions. I wouldnt put that 99 cent oil in the car, although im sure it would work fine if I did. My mechanic would never put the 99 cent stuff into a car, although in any reality it wouldnt cause problems if you did. I am majoring in marketing, so I know the 99 cent oil isnt necessarily bottom of the line crap either (READ: More expensive is usually better, not always)

I can never bring myself to use full blown synth either. I dont know why, cause it seems awful expensive.

[240 2NR]

I big advantage, and why synthetic may be reffered to as "thinner" is that since it is an "engineered" oil, the molecular structure is far more uniform than conventional oil which is more like an average of molecular sizes.

Another advantage to synthectis is that they generally have far fewer addatives, so more of the weight is actually oil, plus with multi wight oils, the elastomers are built into the base stock so large point spreads are acceptable, unlike conventional which gets bad real fast at greater than 25 point spreads.

[AJs14]

Whether you put synthetic of regular, it does not really matter (for a relatively stock ka). Everyone has different driving habits. As long as you change oil and filter every 2500-3000 miles you should be fine. You can't really compare unless you do major test yourself. My bro used to work for SP Engineering with a 700 hp supra. He used regular oil, but changed it every 2000 miles. The car ran fine and everytime he changed the oil it was still pretty clean. I had a MKIV my self and I would use Synthetic Blend for the heck of it every now and then.

[Apparition]

Originally posted by Lonnie_J
i was told that redline and mobil one are the only true synthetic oils made . Since redline is not sold in Canada i use mobil one if im using synthetic oil

You can get redline in Canada. Just have your local autoshop order it. I'm running redline.

[orange-grey]

[i] The car ran fine and everytime he changed the oil it was still pretty clean. I had a MKIV my self and I would use Synthetic Blend for the heck of it every now and then. [/B]

Just to clear up a myth:

When your oil comes out clear, it just means that all that nasty crap is staying in the engine becasue the detergent package sucks. Think about it.

[AJs14]

"pretty clean" was not to be taken literally. I meant the oil was not dirty black. 2k miles to 3500 miles on a car is a big difference. Try it yourself. Call SP Engineering at 626-333-5398. Ask for Rex or Jason.