Clutch Not Disengaging! Bad bleeding or bad pressure plate?

[dongoesby]

Solving problems after another one came up for my SR swap, this is pretty frustrating since this clutch disengagement issue is the last one preventing me from getting the car on the road.

Search after search, I ending getting Illegal Garage custom dual diaphragm clutch.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC01697.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC01693.jpg

Situation: searched and went through FSM for proper installtion. Pilot bushing, throwout bearing and pivot fork (and clips) should have all installed correctly. During the swap, I didn't disconnect the perfect working stock slave cylinder, so I used it with the SR tranny and new IG clutch and I could not fully disengage clutch. With the engine off, I can shift into all gears; with the engine on, I can only force into 1st and 2nd gear. And the rear wheels start to spin before I actually shift into gear.

#1 try: I swapped to Nismo slave cylinder, took out damper box, connected directly from master to slave with braided line; and bleeded. Same behavior, only able to force into 1st and 2nd gear.

#2 try: I went through a proper bleeding procedure. Took out clutch pedal stopper bolt; adjusted the pushin rod to the highet; then bleeded. The nismo slave had a great amount of leverage (almost like stock one). But samething. Only able to force into first and second gear.


#3 try: I shortened the pushing rod to the lowest point, and the pedal suddenly went out of pressure. So I bleeded it again and found a lot of air bubble while stepping with short pushing rod. With short pushing rod, the slave had less leverag

[rican_nick]

I feel you pain.. i have a similar thread a couple threads down.

couple of things to check if you have not.

1. Pivot ball to make sure it has not cracked or has weird wear
2. Clutch fork to make sure it has not cracked therefore not trying to disengage the clutch
3. what TOB are you using?
4. Check the straps and riviets on the Pressure plate to make sure none have snapped loose and arent bent.

your pressure plate wear from the TOB looks very similar to mine and I know my TOB was disengaging the PP even though the disc itself never disengaged. I am going to guess my first 3 points above will end up being ok just like in my situation.

my last suggestion would be to look at Exedy's troubleshooting guide. I know you do not have an Exedy however its the basic principle for most clutches and they cover quite a few things on examing the Pressure Plate to determine if it has a factory defect.

Troubleshooting Guide : Exedy Clutch Europe, Performance Clutches (http://www.exedy.co.uk/index.php?main_page=troubleshooting_guide)


Good Luck...If you figure this out please post your resolution.. I'll be screwing around with mine tomorrow and hope to have my car back on the road.

[g6civcx]

Take out the clutch stopper bolt and adjust the master cylinder bolt so that the pedal stroke is as long as possible. Then bleed again.

Then if it works, you can adjust the pedal travel.

This is easier than opening the transmission again.

[rican_nick]

G6, I read a post of yours with about a problem u were having with your T56 IIRC and your suggestion above fixing it.. I figured an extended slave cylinder rod would of had same/similar effect at least in my case it didtn make any difference. Will your method be different than what i tried?

[dongoesby]

Take out the clutch stopper bolt and adjust the master cylinder bolt so that the pedal stroke is as long as possible. Then bleed again.

Then if it works, you can adjust the pedal travel.

This is easier than opening the transmission again.

I have already done that as written on my #2 try in first post.
I will try again tonight before dropping the tranny.

I feel you pain.. i have a similar thread a couple threads down.

couple of things to check if you have not.

1. Pivot ball to make sure it has not cracked or has weird wear
2. Clutch fork to make sure it has not cracked therefore not trying to disengage the clutch
3. what TOB are you using?
4. Check the straps and riviets on the Pressure plate to make sure none have snapped loose and arent bent.

Nick, I have just read through your thread and I believe that we are sharing the same problem on our clutches. I believe that I have the same proper installation like you did: new pilot bushing, alignment tool, new factory TOB facing pressure plate, pivot forks in good condition, etc. Belive it or not, I have a new TOB carrier too, because the old TOB seperated itself when I was trying to remove it from the old carrier, and the inner layer of the broken TOB stuck with the carrier.

This is what I got from the builder of IG today:
"the extra stress may flex pedal boxes/ firewalls. Find out if piston from slave comes all the way out to end of slave. Robin"

I'm frustrated as well...

[dongoesby]

update: last night I bleeded the clutch again with the pushing rod extended all the way out (almost out of thread). With the car on the jack stands, I was able to force into all gears except reverse. I tried force into reverse, and it made a big grind sound, so I stopped immediately. With the car on the ground, I couldn't push into 1st gear.

Funny thing was the car wanted to move while the shifter lay on 1st (but not able to pop in) with the clutch depressed.

Before I put the car back onto ground, I saw the slave's leverage amount was fair, and it was not as big as I can play with the pivot fork on my removed KA tranny. Also, the fork made a notchy sound when the clutch pedal was depressed.

I removed the dust boot and peeked inside while my buddy was depressing the clutch pedal. I saw everything was working as expected but it still made a notchy sound. I suppose it shouldn't, because with the grease on, it should be quiet. However, I did see the TOB was doing its job and pushing the teeth of the pressure plate.

Any thoughts or ideas? Should I try and force the gear into gear and drive around?

[Addicted2Kouki]

no, i think you should bleed it again.
if it still does it,
drop your tranny and check on the installation.

driving+weird noises=breaking stuff

i feel like the clutch hydraulic system is still not bled all the way.
friend had the same exact problem.

[rican_nick]

Any thoughts or ideas? Should I try and force the gear into gear and drive around?

Funny enough.. i was just updating my thread while i got the email notification on yours.

YES.. force it into gear.. it "fixed" mine.. Do it with the car all up in the air. After mine was forced into first EVERTHING started working fine with no force or weird noises/notchiness.

I have no mechanical explanation as to why this happened and it bothers but I'll take luck over skill on this one.

Good luck dude.

[dongoesby]

no, i think you should bleed it again.
if it still does it,
drop your tranny and check on the installation.

driving+weird noises=breaking stuff

i feel like the clutch hydraulic system is still not bled all the way.
friend had the same exact problem.



My bleeding procedure:

removed stopper bolt and extended the pushing rod.
removed damper box and connected a braided line from master hardline to slave.
loosen the bleeder valve on slave.
fill in fluid while compress the slave piston all the way. Then close the bleeder valve.
depress the pedal 5 times. With pedal depressed, loosen the braided line on the master end just enough to let the air out. Repeated 4 times.
loosen the bleeder valve on slave and pump the pedal. Lots bubbles shoot out. Stopped pumping until bubbles gone.
depress the pedal 5 times. With the pedal depressed, loosen bleeder valve to let air bubbles out. ~2 seconds, close the bleeder valve. Repeated 6~8 times until clear fluid came out.
All above procedures were done with fluid kept filling in. Never let it empty out.
The nismo slave made the pedal lighter than the stock slave by a lot. I suppose it is working properly. However, I suspect it was not extend all the way out.

Could anybody kindly show me how far does your slave extends out?

[dongoesby]

just found this: YouTube - SR20DET Slave cylinder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ1asOBNrvE)

my slave only extend like 1/2~3/4 of the length shown in the video.

This is my second slave. It is an used nismo slave, but was told working. First one was working perfectly with my old KA.

What are they signs of bad master?

[dongoesby]

Update: So after two days research, I decided to perform a simple test to the disengagement issue. I simply put a 6mm socket on top of the slave cylinder piston to make its length like ~1/4 inch longer. Again, with the pedal stopper bolt removed and pushing rod set to longest, I put a little 6mm socket on top of the nismo slave and bleed it again. And nope, this time it didn't work. Still couldn't shift into 1st.

I was, again, frustrated, and tried the same method on my stock slave. And it worked! It is not smooth for 1st gear, but the rest are very fine. The car still want to move forward when I put the shifter next to 1st gear but not pop in. I believe the length that the stock and nismo slave travel is not a big difference.

Now, with the stopper bolt removed and pushing rod adjusted to longest, the clutch engaging point is very low. It almost happen as soon as I lift up my foot.

Is there anything wrong with my hydralic system or the fork is bent? I see no fluid leaking on my clutch pedal, but I found the nismo slave has fluid spray out from the boot when I try to compress it with the bleeder screw loosened. Any idea?

[SoguRacing]

perhaps the back pressure is escaping by the internal cups. Your clutch master may be done for. a rebuilt one or new one may be required.

[dongoesby]

perhaps the back pressure is escaping by the internal cups. Your clutch master may be done for. a rebuilt one or new one may be required.

If the clutch master gone bad, is there symptoms like fluid leaking on the pedal?

Any chance the firewall would flex due to extra pressure?

[negrosx13]

^^^ this is true,a bad clutch master leaks like hell inside the car..
Now i have the same problem..but only when my cars cold doesnt want to get into any gears even trying to force. But as it warms up and a few pumps it slowly start becoming easier to shift..i did the same bs bleeding the system number of times over, adjusting the pedal over and the problem would go away for a month or two then come back.this is almost year and half old clutch that ive beaten the life out of and it still almost like the day it was new.just doesnt want to disengage when its cold

Im calling out on the pressure plate.makes no sense other wise

[SoguRacing]

If the clutch master gone bad, is there symptoms like fluid leaking on the pedal?

Any chance the firewall would flex due to extra pressure?

if there is an external rear leak in the master cylinder then yes that could happen.

[dongoesby]

if there is an external rear leak in the master cylinder then yes that could happen.

I have also check on the ground frequently and see there is no drops and the master cylinder does not drop.

[RPSil13]

this was right after your sr swap, sound like you used the sr trans, couldnt it be an issue w/ the trans?

I had an issue once, after i stopped driving my car for a few months, my car wouldnt go into 5th, but after driving it around for a while and continuosly trying to shift into 5th, it just randomly started working again,

[DataXUnknown]

Make sure your shifter is in the right way, it's always nice to check the small things that you wouldn't think would make a difference. Besides that, I would recommend dropping the tranny, it doesn't take too long. Did you torque all of the flywheel bolts down to the correct specs?

[shinobis13hb]

i had the same problen i chanfed my master and it went away,

[dongoesby]

solution in here:
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/290132-screw-im-getting-wilwood-clutch-mc-2.html#post3286422

[Shvltme93Notch]

clutch damper thingy? have you bled that?

[foofers]

Reviving this...did you ever find out what was causing the issue?