Tires: Kumho vs Goodyear...need comments

[twitchy]

Okay so twitchy is going to ask for some comments in a relatively NON controversial topic. (No mustangs here...sorry folks)

Anyhoo...

I need new tires and some advice. I just want to hear what anyone has to say about them if you have them on your car.
Again, my car is a mainly stock 93 240SX SE.

I need new tires. Im putting the worn out back ones on the front today to finish them off in a parking lot or something, and then on thursday I am going to pick up and get the new ones installed

Car has stock rims and each tire is brand new, same price (both from buddies who work at different tire places, so im paying like peanuts for them)

TIRE 1: Kumho Ecsta Supra

TIRE 2: Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grips (not ultra grip ice which is a winter tire)

I havent seen either tire yet but I have seen the kumhos on a different car before

anyone know anything about these first hand? As well, will a 205 65 15 tire be alright on the stock rim?

Considerations:
-Sometime I drive in snow
-I am not into drifting (much)
-I dont usually do donuts or burnouts
-I dont race at a track very often but I have some nice backroads around where I live


thanks folks

[BeatJunky]

I used to drive a 2002 Cavalier Z24 that came with stockies Goodyear rubbers...

They sucked...

When I finally had burnt them out to crap I went and picked up a set of Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's and these were great.

Cheap in price. Excellent handling dry/wet... best bang for the buck in my opinion.

I dont know about the other goodyears though (the ones you mentioned)

[nismo_sr_20]

ive had the ecstas before and theyre a really great deal, but have you looked into eagle f1's? i got me a set of those, good wet traction, and extreme dry traction, they only lasted me 3 months though

[BeatJunky]

thats another factor...

the kumhos have a nice lifespan

[BeatJunky]

Also... http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27983

Originally posted by nrcooled
I went w/ the Kumho Ecsta 712s

I like them so far and they are pretty good in the rain. Can't wait to get to the track. Maybe I should start a "get my a$s to the track fund" so I can use these dam_n mods

[AuburnRyan]

IMHO, Go with 205/60, 205/55, or 195/60. A 65% sidewall offers too much wall which will FLEX = poor handling.

As a refernece, I had Dunlop sp8000 in 205/55/15. Then bought Kumho 712's in 215/45/17. Handling was the same - it should have been much better for the 17 inch Kumho's. But then again the Kumho are rated to last about a third longer (read, less grippy-harder compound)

Overall, not MAX performance tires, but nice at their price. never has goodyears. Dunlops (sp800, w-10, fm901) summer tires are great but you'll be SOL in snow!

hope that helps...It's a good place to invest a little extra $ since it's the only thign keeping your car on the road.

Might I alos suggest the dunlop sp-sport A2's ...there are on alot of the CARMAX cars we sell, cheap and overall a great tire for the $. check out review on tirerack .com

[Dousan_PG]

a2 SUCKS
i had those and hated it. hot and greasy. but they do smoke easily hehehehe...

lap after lap you need a tire that GRIPS
Kuhmo712 get too hot on the track (NOT autocross but a track event. like 10 laps in a row)=greasy

my friends like FM901s (Dunlop) i think they are ok, but im going Yoko ES100 only heard good things. or advan neova. still contemplating and shopping (price)

azenis got kung fu grip ;) lap after lap.

[BeatJunky]

Speaking of snow...

My Kumhos were TERRIBLE in Snow...

Go to tirerack.com as you will get reviews on tires and side by side comparisons...

The Kumhos are Excellent/Superior rated but Unacceptable in Snow with Excellent Life & Superior rating in Dry Traction

[nrcooled]

The quote above is my comment on the 712s. I like them so far and are a far cry from the Goodyear HP that I had on before. My next set I will try the Yoko ES100. They were not available close to me shipped from the tire rack so the price started to get up there shipped from AZ.

Anyway the Kumhos are a good tire thus far and I will see how they stand up at the track but the ES100 will be the next set of rubber

[nrcooled]

Originally posted by BeatJunky
Speaking of snow...

My Kumhos were TERRIBLE in Snow...

Go to tirerack.com as you will get reviews on tires and side by side comparisons...

The Kumhos are Excellent/Superior rated but Unacceptable in Snow with Excellent Life & Superior rating in Dry Traction

S U M M E R T I R E They are not made for the snow you either put your stockies back on w/ the crappy all-seasons or you bite the bullet and switch tires every season. Look at the tread design...snow never came into the equation when the tire was designed.

[toddnappi]

I have Kumho Ecsta Supra 712s 225x16x50 on my 240sx. Very grippy, hard to chirp tires, seem to last a decent amount of miles. However pricey and loud and need to warm up for real traction.

[Chernobyl]

Don't even think about driving in snow with high performance tires. As temps drop below 40 degrees, the compound will turn rock hard and the tread designs are not made for snow traction whatsoever. I could drive fine last winter with my extremely bald goodyear eagle somethingorother all-season tires, but then I got my AVS es 100s a bit early and got stuck in a few snowstorms with those, and its a whole different story. If there are hills where you drive, you might as well walk. My friend's MR2 with ecsta 712s had the same experience in snow. These tires are rated unacceptable in the snow for a reason!

[Warwick5s]

i have supra 712s on my scirocco, and they are great. plenty of dry and wet traction, and i even was a dumbass two winters ago and drove them in the snow, and it wasn't too horrible.

[twitchy]

Originally posted by AuburnRyan
IMHO, Go with 205/60, 205/55, or 195/60. A 65% sidewall offers too much wall which will FLEX = poor handling.

As a refernece, I had Dunlop sp8000 in 205/55/15. Then bought Kumho 712's in 215/45/17. Handling was the same - it should have been much better for the 17 inch Kumho's. But then again the Kumho are rated to last about a third longer (read, less grippy-harder compound)

Overall, not MAX performance tires, but nice at their price. never has goodyears. Dunlops (sp800, w-10, fm901) summer tires are great but you'll be SOL in snow!

hope that helps...It's a good place to invest a little extra $ since it's the only thign keeping your car on the road.

Might I alos suggest the dunlop sp-sport A2's ...there are on alot of the CARMAX cars we sell, cheap and overall a great tire for the $. check out review on tirerack .com

Thanks for the advice man.
So you think a 65 sidewall will flex too much on the stock rims. I wanted the size to be close to stock so they wouldnt look like balloons, but either way the ultra grips advertise a "reinforced sidewall with BAZ technology"

I dont know what that means, any thoughts? Again, I never really race too much.. And anything is better than the radial TA's im wearing now!
Thanks very much again!

[citizen]

Put some kumhos up front today on my 240, they get my vote~ have to get out and run the mountain to really test them out. but, from the few turns i hit already i can already say i fell in love

[russian]

go with kumho, cant miss. also Hankook Ventus are prety good.

Goodyear does suck, they burn too quick.

[uiuc240]

Here is my setup:

185/65-15 Blizzaks on stock alloys for snow
225/45-17 Kumho Ecsta MX for summer/track

I've had the MXs for a little over a week now, and let me tell you, they are AWESOME. They grip and grip and grip. I take turns WAY faster than I should and they don't even bark. They just have more in reserve. These are the tires that will knock Azenis out of the top spot.

Oh, and one more thing:

You can't compare Brand to Brand...just because there is a crappy Goodyear tire doesn't mean that all Goodyear tires are crappy (this is in reference to BeatJunky's comment). On the same token, not all Kumhos are awesome either. And the MX are FAR superior to the 712.

Eric

[Driftin_240sx]

dam i must have got a cheap pair of Cumhoes cause they were complete Sh*t ! they were so hard , traction sucked and i wish i would have takin a pic of it, but the tire ripped totally off my rim, not cool. i would never buy them again. they sucked in the rain also, snow... i dont think so.

just my opinion. they are cheap for a reason.

yoko avs here

david

[uiuc240]

yeah, perhaps you should have a model number, age of tire, an some more information before you make comments like that.

Kumho is moving QUICKLY to the top of the sport/race tire market. they have an excellent reputation and are knocking the more expensive competition off their seats. also, Kumho has race tires that rival Hoosiers, if you didn't already know. and they are consistently competitive from season to season (this from a manufacturer that you say builds tires that don't bite and fall apart).

Eric

[240silvia]

Kuhmo, all the way. Cheap, and Reliable.

[Phlip]

Kumhos... I have 711s (225/45-17) myself, and a friend with a 240 has 712s... The 711 has better treadwear rating and a slightly lower traction, but I am hard on tires and got them on a hookup, so I went for the 711s. Good thing I see about them is that they have grip that requires nothing short of the hand of God to make the rear step out from what I have tried so far.

[adey]

Originally posted by Warwick5s
i have supra 712s on my scirocco, and they are great. plenty of dry and wet traction, and i even was a dumbass two winters ago and drove them in the snow, and it wasn't too horrible. dude! you have a scirocco?! I'm jealous!! Those things are the SHIZ!! :D

Back to tires: I wouldn't get either... Go for a "higher" quality, stickier tire like Yokohama, Dunlop or Bridgestone.

[silforty]

Go with the Kuhmo's. Best tires i ever had. Don't know why the f&% i sold my 17's with them. DAMN!

[nismo_sr20_wut]

If this is worth anything, the SCCA forums did a discussion on Yoko' A032R's against the Kumho's, the Yoko's lasted twice as long but the Kumho's got the better lap time and were the stickier tire. They recommended Yoko for a fun track day tire and Kumho for a competition tire.

[uiuc240]

Originally posted by nismo_sr20_wut
If this is worth anything, the SCCA forums did a discussion on Yoko' A032R's against the Kumho's, the Yoko's lasted twice as long but the Kumho's got the better lap time and were the stickier tire. They recommended Yoko for a fun track day tire and Kumho for a competition tire.

Yeah, adey should do some reading too. Grassroots Motorsports also puts the Kumho as the faster/sticker/better tire.

Yoko is a brand. It is good. But I don't care about that. I want the best tire for my money. This time around, that turned out to be the Kumho Ecsta MX.

Eric

[silnv]

I just ordered some Yok AVS ES100's today. Did a little checkin around on them and they seem to get good reviews at all the tire sites. hopefully I will be able to give some first and exp sometime soon.

[Drifting Ricer]

If you want the best summer tire for the best price is still is Falken AZENIS. There is a new model out in Japan that hasn't made it's way to the US yet. I was guy crazy enough to use the Azenis through the winter. :eek: Of course I only drove the car 2k miles in the winter.

Most of the street tire guys in scca haven't switch to the MX yet. Still if I would to buy race rubber kumho is "the way to go".

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Drifting Ricer
If you want the best summer tire for the best price is still is Falken AZENIS. There is a new model out in Japan that hasn't made it's way to the US yet. I was guy crazy enough to use the Azenis through the winter. :eek: Of course I only drove the car 2k miles in the winter.

what new version? if you are talking ST115s, you are very very wrong. its been here fora VERY LONG TIME. just no one knows about it.

[Rennen]

Originally posted by dousan36
a2 SUCKS
i had those and hated it. hot and greasy. but they do smoke easily hehehehe...


I must disagree with you there, as he stated in his original post:

Considerations:
-Sometime I drive in snow
-I am not into drifting (much)
-I dont usually do donuts or burnouts
-I dont race at a track very often but I have some nice backroads around where I live


and I have 205/60 R15 Dunlop SP Sport A2 on for these same reasons. They worked great in the snow for those of us who don't live in cali, and since I don't take the car to the track all the time, I dont need a supersticky tire like the Azenis, etc. The A2s are extremely cheap also, $57 a tire:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=SP+Sport+A2&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=06HR5A2


I'm not trying to say that these are the ultimate tire in anyway, but they are a great performance all season tire and would fit his considerations.

Azeni/Kuhmo/Yokohama THIS
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pb0c0270cca64cf44b46051398266f08b/fc31fbaa.jpg

[Dousan_PG]

actually Rennen

i had them BEFORE i did drifting/track events
i did some mountain driving a bit and they got greasy and slippery after pushing the car hard. they were on the back only (RE730 on front)

did great in rain

good for cheap
but i wouldnt use them at autox or a lot of spirited driving.

edit: i know they smoke easy because i did a few burnouts (never had tried before in life)....open diff burnouts are funny :)

[AKADriver]

SP Sport A2 is a good daily driver tire.

Yokohama makes a similar tire, the Avid H4. I have them on my GTI. Decent cold/street grip, but just like any all-season tire, pushing them hard makes them greasy quickly. Okey dokey in snow.

[240 2NR]

I would avoid both of these tires, if as your first post indicates, you must deal with snow. Simply put, the Kuhmo 712's (not entirely sure of the specs on the goodyears but I assume them to also be summer tires as well) are a summer tire and snow traction was NOT a design consideration. It's the same reason you won't find many people driving on winter tires in the summer time. They are too specifically built to handle the opposing season with anything resembling performance.

Can you drive a summer tire in the winter? Certainly. Is it a smart idea? Definitely not. On a road free of variables where you can plan ahead for every stop, then a summer tire might fit the bill, but in an emergency or if you ever get stuck on a hill you'll be SOL.

As for your other criteria I can highly recomend the 712's. A very capable street tire at a very reasonable price. I did not say the BEST tire, but a capable one with strong wet traction, good dry traction, a decent ride, decent tread life, quiet ride and a good price. The BEST tire for any one characteristic generally makes too many trade offs for that one specific strength (if that wasn't true we'd all be driving hoosier slicks, that cost $30 per tire and lasted forever).

Since snow is an issue, consider looking at all season tires, unless you feel that between now and winter time you will come across the money to invest in a set of snow tires (they start around $50 per tire so they are not unreasonable and even a low end snow tire should outperform a decent all season tire in snowy/icey conditions). I have noteiced however that the difference in handling between allseason and snow tires on rwd is far more pronounced than on fwd. My all seasons still required a lot of restraint, whereas the snows were confidence inspiring. With a fwd car, the difference was noticable, but not nearly as pronounced.

As for size, a 205/65 will be large. Stock is 195/60/15 and at most I would increase the treadwidth one size, but not both. Go with either a 205/60/15, or 205/55 (slightly shorter than stock to equal depending on the tire) or stock 195/60. As I just pointed out, each tire is different and varies slightly from the theoretical size the XXX/XX/XX label would indicate.

[citizen]

712s' in 205/55/15 are perfect for stock rims

[twitchy]

Thanks 240ZNR

What I meant about the snow was that in winter I have to drive in it once in a while. Im in northern ontario, so we have snow from late october till late march. But in the winter I tend to drive very little, using my parents cars. I drove this past winter with nearly bald radial TA's on the rear. Very bad idea I know but I slow down, allow room and havent had any problems. (probably since its in your blood if you live up here) The snow thing is the last of my problems. Any summer tire with some tread would do better than what I had this winter! Plus im hoping to get my old car on the road for the winter as well. Thanks again for the advice though, I think if I dont get the old car going again ill just get winter tires anyways. lll keep you posted. Thanks to everyone else for the great feedback as well.

Cheers

-Twitchy