View Full Version : What is with those big stupid spoilers?
twitchy
05-02-2003, 01:05 AM
Alright first off, I know full well that some of you have those big aluminum looking spoilers that are about 3 feet tall and look like they belong on the rear deck of a Le Mans car or something. But can ANYONE explain what the point of wasting that kind of money is on a wing like that? (no offense intended to anyone here)
I saw a 240 tonight, I am one of 4 in the town where I live that I know of. (S13 model)
anyhow, it was lime green and rust, had a big apple juice can muffler and sounded like a sick gerbil. But this wing.. Like..it must have been 2 inches taller then the roof, and it was like a double decker. I asked the kid what he paid, and he said 300 bucks!!! WTF??
i mean, it makes your car slower, adds drag, reduces fuel economy, and looks silly to boot!
You cant tell me that it makes downforce either, cause if a 150 horsepower car could somehow go 200 plus MPH and make enough of it, i suspect that the wing would rip apart or the downforce would dent into the sheet metal trunk.
Why why why why......
Because they can and they want to. not my taste at all, but to each their own......
twitchy
05-02-2003, 01:14 AM
i know, im not one to make fun of someones car at all, and I dont, but I dont get it. If I had 300 to blow on my car, it would be like a tranny / diff flush, oilspray, polish and seal.. Not a wing that makes the car slower and kills my mileage
but as you say, all to their own
Same thing I would do. only wing that i would let touch my car(s14) is the kouki ks wing. it's o-so nice. I also like the wingless look. YOu're right though......i'd spend 300 on tires, tires, and some more tires.
twitchy
05-02-2003, 01:20 AM
yeah I could use some tires too... Hey I was dared to tape a snowboard to my spoiler and drive around like that at "cruise night" here in Sudbury, and make fun of so many of the honda drivers..
do you have a pic of that wing you mentioned?
someone posted it on his kouki s14. down an couple posts under silvia parts kouki ks wing
Bbandit
05-02-2003, 01:31 AM
yes i saw one 240 with aluminum wing too here in town..
but i dont really care
but when he start to talk, "dude, my wing helps me a lot on my autoX run"... i will simply go mad!
sykikchimp
05-02-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Bbandit
yes i saw one 240 with aluminum wing too here in town..
but i dont really care
but when he start to talk, "dude, my wing helps me a lot on my autoX run"... i will simply go mad!
Tell that to Adam H. on FA... he swears by his wing, and he competes in Solo I with SCCA.
misnomer
05-02-2003, 03:43 PM
Smack me if I'm wrong, but isn't Solo I higher speed track racing, where you could potentially benefit from a wing?
pruto
05-02-2003, 04:14 PM
for all you haters, do you know the drag, downforce, and weight of these wings? i doubt it.
granted, most big ass wings are not necessary, BUT, for most well designed wings, you don't need to go 200 mph for it to take effect. And how do you know that these alumnimum wings need that kind of speed to add to performance?>
I majored in aerospace engineering for about 2 years, and my limited knowledge about airflow and drag doesn't give me the right to talk **** about the usefulness of other people's wings.
But, any given wing has its optimal range of performance, a range of speed whereby the drag created by the addition of the wing is offset by the stability and downforce it adds. No wing has an optimal range that covers everything.
Whether a wing is optimal between 60mph-100mph or 180mph-200mph you have no friggen idea by just looking at it.
A basic wing DOES help in the case of most cars, including the 240sx, so actually going wingless (even though some people like the look) can degrade the performance of the car.... i can call you wingless cars rice, but i don't... cause i'm wingless right now =)
anyway, i'm not pretenting to know all, but in this case, if its all about looks, its subjective, so who the hell gives a damn, its not your car.
If you want to talk about performance, you can't UNLESS you have numbers to back it up (and you have to know what those numbers means).
anyway, chicken wings and hot waitresses awaits... bye bye
THX1138
05-02-2003, 04:35 PM
If you're gonna mount a big goofy wing to the back of your car, that's fine, but PLEASE, by all that is good and holy, put the friggin' thing on right! I've seen wings installed with the main element upside-down so they generate lift, or angled so that the bottom of the main element is facing forward, and even backwards, with the skinny edge of the airfoil as the lead edge. There's no surer way to make yourself look like an idiot than spend good money that could have gone to tires, brake pads, blackjack, or hookers and not even install the thing right.
logo20
05-02-2003, 05:04 PM
most people who put big aluminum wings on their car is because they want their cars to look fast/sportier not because they care about performance, whether they have slow neon, honda, nissan or a van(I saw a chevy van with an aluminum wing one time). don't let it bother you, just laugh at them.
THX1138
05-02-2003, 05:27 PM
Oh, trust me, I laugh at 'em. But it's not a "holy crap, that's hee-frickin-larious" laugh, it's more of a"holy crap, I'm glad I'm not that doofus" laugh.
And I saw a 1988 Buick Riviera with an aluminum wing a few weeks ago...
dizastaman
05-02-2003, 10:17 PM
I saw this on my trip to FLA last month. An example of very bad wing usage. (yes it is real, sad but true)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db23b3127cce9736451dda890000001610
They do it fo' decoration man, it's only fo' decoration!
:p
Bliss
05-02-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by HaLo
They do it fo' decoration man, it's only fo' decoration!
:p
Oh man, I'm so ashamed I live so close to those people! Talk about ignorance!
Alot of people also put on wings for show cars, cuz for shows you HAVE to have everything. :rolleyes:
mvaters
05-02-2003, 10:46 PM
in my town people are putting them on cavaliers. there are like 7 cavaliers with aluminum wings in a town of 25000
silviaparts.com
05-02-2003, 10:54 PM
Once again, it's probably the fast and furious's fault. After that movie, those big alumimum wings became "must have" for kids who want their cars to be called "hooked up".
Bliss
05-02-2003, 11:25 PM
I fail to see how a poser auto-enthusiast isn't also a poser in life. If someone likes the wing, thats fine, no posing. But if they put it on for "downforce" and because others say it looks cool, thats posing. I can't stand haters, but this isn't hating. Hating would be "Man, why do those guys have those really cool wings and I don't?!?!"
realracersuseapc
05-02-2003, 11:38 PM
i doesnt really make sense to me why all these people keep hating on aluminum wings, but the bomex wangan wing is all great. i agree the bomex looks nice, but it doesnt add as much downforce as the aluminum wing. Its not like the wing is heavier either, since they're comin out with all these carbon fiber 1s and all that. Theyre just judging the car based on how it looks, even though the person has no idea how functional it really is. yea sometimes its on wrong, but even if its on right and totally functional everyone still calls it rice.
determining that all aluminum wings are rice doesnt really make sense either. yea some people with wings are ricers, but not all. The reason alota people dont get them is because they look bad. This would in turn make that person a ricer, since they are disregarding the performance aspects of the wing and only concentrating on the looks.
silviaparts.com: i wouldnt say its the movie fast and furious only. its more the media. the media plays everything out, like hip hop and pretty much anything underground that they think could be marketable. down with the man! :D it would be kinda sad if only the movie the fast and furious that ruined street racing, since that would mean 2 hours of film could disrupt and entire subculture.
ps: all the bikers were complaining about how biker boyz would do the same thing to sport bikes as fast and furious did 2 cars, but after it came out, nothing happened. i just kinda wanted 2 point that out. they got lucky with that 1.:D
pss: damn this was a long post
s13yo15
05-03-2003, 12:32 AM
i have a bomex wangan wing and i think it looks great. I was actually looking at one of those universal aluminum ones too before i bought the bomex one cause it wuld've been cheaper and ligher. I think they look pretty good on a 240. I dunt like seeing them on civics or integras. The aluminum wings match up ok with the style of the hatch 240 IMO.
Dousan_PG
05-03-2003, 01:39 AM
first
james, your my hero. serious. your rock.
second
wings wings wing
wangan wings, kouki wings
dont do CHIT
so who cares if it is park bench size or not
people can do what they want to do to their cars. oh wait..i see why...its THEIR car.
twitchy
05-03-2003, 01:40 AM
yes S13yo15, ten-four, absolutely if it looks like it belongs on your car and I have seen some that DO look good. (Thats hard for me to say, believe me!)
Anyways
even though, as pruto said, they make some amount of downforce, they cant do any more benefit than bad. I mean, whoopie-crap it might make like 20 pounds of downforce but probably more drag than that. If you want the extra 20 pounds and no drag get some purple glow lights and an applejuice can muffler!
Dousan_PG
05-03-2003, 01:43 AM
for the doubters. a little test in japan of various wings. downforce is quite impressive according to this test.
this is from Drift Tengoku IIRC
enjoy.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p2f04122b879fd37dd8fcd9d0a923c314/fcf9117c.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/pd90b19b91d88777f59774bba6d9fc90a/fcf910c8.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p0cd59af7ca324bbc23d27bacc4ff50fd/fcf9111b.jpg
get properties of link, copy paste address and add orig.jpg to end to get full size
the head
05-03-2003, 01:50 AM
As to the larger amount of drag i have seen big spoilers/wings removed at the track and if they are big enough than gains of almost .1 sec are realized I want to make a huge spoiler out of plywood and bolt it on to the roof of a bread truck and tell all it is mAd TyTe yO
because i am a trend setter
in the end it is thier car and if they like it than your opinion don't matter anyway so why try
s13yo15
05-03-2003, 01:56 AM
yes everione has their own opinion. but after i put on the bomex i felt a definite difference on the freeway. Not much but just enough to be noticeable. i dunno bout drag and lift coefficients and dynamics. One of my friends is an aerospace major so i culd ask if i realli wanted to know but who cares, if the spoiler looks good to u then it shuldnt matter.
Well put, pruto, and dousan, thanks for the images!
It's hard to say. I've never been a fan of wings proper, but can see the benefit from them. If I were building a true track car, i would say with much certainty that it would have a wing. If, however, I were just building a daily driver/toss-around car, it would likely not have a wing, just because I don't like the look. I'd much rather go for the under-panel diffuser thingymabobby than a big wing, although these (probably) cost much more than wings. That, and a subtle trunk lid spoiler (not wing) would be nice. :drooooooool:
I used to point and laugh at every civic and accord that I saw with these huge double decker wings, but now I only point and laugh at the camrys with them. :) If you're still hating on this stuff, you have to learn to accept it; it's just something some people like to do... a difference in taste that you have to live with. I hear it's a free country, after all! let them be!
pruto
05-03-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by dousan36
[B]for the doubters. a little test in japan of various wings. downforce is quite impressive according to this test.
this is from Drift Tengoku IIRC
enjoy.
Thank you, my point exactly.
as for drag on huge ass wings, you'd be surprised. Drag has almost everything to do with the design of the wing, size matters, but less than you think, shape and airfoil does. I've seen pictures of huge aircraft wings that have coefficent of drag equal to a metal wire.
Theoretically, you can have a huge ass well designed wing that has the same profile drag coefficient as your antenna. Air flow is tricky like that, you can't obtain drag and lift (in the case of cars, downforce) by just LOOKING at the object. If it was that simple you wouldn't need aerospace engineers or wind tunnels.
again, YES most people with gigantic wings won't see its correct usage and probably will do more bad than good. Big wing means large surface area. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that having a big wing on a car means its not functional and its rice cause it doesn't have a performance value. Cars DO need downforce.
If i see one more stupid or uniformed reply to this post i'm going to have to dust off my AE books and whip out some equations. I don't have time to waste on that, i have finals to study for. So if i'm forced to lay the intellectual smack down, it'll get ugly ;)
Dousan_PG
05-03-2003, 10:28 AM
damn pruto, you rock
u going to meet tonight?
if not i'll see you at DD5
i should have my SSS in by then...i hope! :)
werd!
silviaparts.com
05-03-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by dousan36
for the doubters. a little test in japan of various wings. downforce is quite impressive according to this test.
this is from Drift Tengoku IIRC
enjoy.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p2f04122b879fd37dd8fcd9d0a923c314/fcf9117c.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/pd90b19b91d88777f59774bba6d9fc90a/fcf910c8.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p0cd59af7ca324bbc23d27bacc4ff50fd/fcf9111b.jpg
get properties of link, copy paste address and add orig.jpg to end to get full size
I just tried that and it doesn't work. can u give me the urls? I really want to see it. THX
Dousan_PG
05-03-2003, 11:22 AM
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291213751
pics #111-114
enjoy the album. scanned all those pics myself haha..over time of course. its JdM tYte Yo!
silviaparts.com
05-03-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by dousan36
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291213751
pics #111-114
enjoy the album. scanned all those pics myself haha..over time of course. its JdM tYte Yo!
holy........thanks a lot!
russian
05-03-2003, 01:23 PM
they get those wings because they think it looks "kewl". also they are dirt cheap, (look at e-bay). I wouldnt get one unless its a carbon fiber wing like c-west, but they cost waaaaay to much. why just not get a K wing/spoiler??!
KyoLo
05-03-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by twitchy
do you have a pic of that wing you mentioned?
Yep, there you go. Maybe not that clear, but u get the view, it looks really good on S14, i like it way more than the aluminum or carbon fiber wing.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p4d9dcd9b000ced0342d0a38693522f1a/fc38fa87.jpg
SilviaDriver
05-03-2003, 02:08 PM
damn wats up with these kinda threads?? i swear its mostly the newbies that start this stuff.
who the Hell cares what people do to THEIR car! if the dude wanted to spend 3 bills for a wing let the guy spend 3 bills! its HIS car..what does it matter to u? and u come back and ask us WHY people like him spent that much on a wing. y didnt u ask him urself!?
CLIFF NOTES: who the hell cares what people do to their car, let them do watever they want cuz it is THEIR car. does their car effect you in anyway? if not, then STFU.
its retarded to bitch and moan about what other people do to their cars. people have diff taste.
russian
05-03-2003, 02:10 PM
Werd :)
s13yo15
05-03-2003, 04:28 PM
ppl who dunt like this kind of thread shuld just stay away from it. Why read or respond if its so agonizing? i dropped 3 bills on my spoiler but that was in addition to another liftgate cause mine had a 4inch hole rusted in it. If ppl think its worth it then who cares. comment is cool but u shuldnt just come and say ppl dumb for creating the thread and debating.
weirdstyles.net
05-03-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by James
You sir are a dumbass.
muwahh ha ha ha ha!!!!
that made my day a lil better..
ok wings are cool
BOOSTLOVER
05-03-2003, 07:48 PM
A few weeks ago I was in my gsx on my way home from playing cards at a friends house when I saw some cheap bluelights speed up behind me. He then swerved into the lane next to me and started reving at me, so I looked over to see who the hell it was and see some badass kid looking at me like I punched his mom or something. I looked at the back of his neon and there sat a wing almost a half foot taller than his roof, witch had a lit up Pizza Hut sign. After like 15 seconds of reving I couldn't take it anymore, I downshifted to second and gunned it untill I was about a block away. Damn that kid got on my nerves, the way he was looking at me.
scandalcat1
05-03-2003, 09:04 PM
It seems to be a mixed issue as far as opinions and fact go. It really boils down to what is liked/disliked. Some of the japanese drift machines (S15s) look o.k. with a conservative wing in place. It is however that guy's $300 and as long as he is not using it illegally, it's not a problem with me. Just remember, there are the educated and uneducated in the matter and different styles have different solutions. Some of us are here strictly for functionality and then there are those of us here for show, and then there are those who have common grounds in both respects. "Less filling, Tastes Great"! Just my 3 cents (threw in the extra cent)
Bliss
05-04-2003, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by James
You sir are a dumbass.
why? because you disagree with me?
Then shut the hell up.
ooo, very mature....why should i be quiet? i voice and opinion you have a problem with and i get jumped on?
You seem to be obsessed with "posing" - I don't get the feeling you're an automotive enthusiast- YOU sound like a "poser".
i sound like a poser? why's that? I'll be the first to tell you I'm not educated when it comes to cars, but I don't like people who act like they are when they don't know much, and thus are "posing". why is my choice of words such a problem?
So anyway, what's your point? Because they have a different style than you ........you are a better person than they are? When did I say I'm better than them??? Quit taking what I say out of context. I don't drive the car, so what does what I think matter? I'm just giving my opinion
This is not an issue of whether or not wings cause downforce; that is a given. Whats at issue is whether or not the downforce is necessary and I can confidently say the answer is NO. If you want to blow an inordinate ammount of money on a completely unneeded component for your car, then buy the wing, by all means go for it. Just be sure you understand that 1) YOU DONT NEED IT 2) People who have even a slight understanding about the automotive world will laugh their ass off at A) your ignorance and B) how super-ugly your car is.
There is nothing wrong with putting a huge ugly wing on your car, you just have to accept the consequenses of that action (ridicule, etc.)
PS. I can see James it in his usual form...:rolleyes:
transient
05-04-2003, 04:00 PM
one of my major problems here, is that the people who actually have knowledge of aerodynamics say that a (well designed) wing is actually useful. Personally, i'd like to see some real information about this topic, not just the people talking about how stupid they look or how only ricers use them.
s13yo15
05-04-2003, 04:50 PM
why would ppl laugh their ass off if u had a big "ugly" wing? So ur saying if u know something about cars u shuld laugh at sumone trying to improve the look of their car? Just cause one person thinks it may be funny or ugly doesnt mean everione else does. Dunt say it like ur talking for everione. This is a veri subjective topic and shuldnt include such generalizations
Originally posted by s13yo15
why would ppl laugh their ass off if u had a big "ugly" wing? So ur saying if u know something about cars u shuld laugh at sumone trying to improve the look of their car? Just cause one person thinks it may be funny or ugly doesnt mean everione else does. Dunt say it like ur talking for everione. This is a veri subjective topic and shuldnt include such generalizations
Im not speaking for everyone, I'm just speaking for the people who have at least half a brain. If you think putting an aluminum bench on the trunk of a 4dr civic looks good then you are no better than the owner of the car. Dont see how it could be any other way.
PS. Try using english next time, it makes your argument look a little more legitimate :rolleyes:
Bliss
05-04-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by transient
one of my major problems here, is that the people who actually have knowledge of aerodynamics say that a (well designed) wing is actually useful. Personally, i'd like to see some real information about this topic, not just the people talking about how stupid they look or how only ricers use them.
I don't this anyone's arguing about whether they work or not. Most would agree that a well designed wing would help. Ugly or not. However, I think was started to talk about the universal aluminum wings. I think pruto HAS some real information on the subject though.
hookedup240
05-04-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by NZO
Im not speaking for everyone, I'm just speaking for the people who have at least half a brain. If you think putting an aluminum bench on the trunk of a 4dr civic looks good then you are no better than the owner of the car. Dont see how it could be any other way.
PS. Try using english next time, it makes your argument look a little more legitimate :rolleyes:
Your speaking for me when you say this.
Also i laugh and think its stupid when i see it on a FWD car is because it doesn't do anything for it, atleast on a RWD car it has a function.
Bliss
05-04-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by hookedup240
Your speaking for me when you say this.
Also i laugh and think its stupid when i see it on a FWD car is because it doesn't do anything for it, atleast on a RWD car it has a function.
I actually know a few people that have said a functional wing on a FWD car can have a positive effect. Even if your rear wheels aren't putting down the power, I'd expect it to be a bit scary if your rear tires came off the ground (exaggeration), or even if they began to lose control.
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