Redtop? or Blacktop? Which is better for 180sx?

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Hi people, new guy here, planning on buying a S13/180sx.
I currently drive a fully modded 2000 Accord V6.

I plan on swapping in a sr20det motor, but Im a bit confused, which one is better?

the red top? or black top?

I went to srswap.com, but I dont see what the difference is between the two.

Could any1 give me any specs for both motors?
The advantages/disadvantages and anything else I shoud know.

Sorry for all the questions, im TOO hyped bout this car lol..

Thnx guyz.

- Najeeb

[Bbandit]

Originally posted by iLLeGaLaKKoRd


I went to srswap.com, but I dont see what the difference is between the two.




its because its the SAME!!
s13 redtop and blacktop is exactly the same except the valve cover color!

one word.. SEARCH more

put on your flame suit.. this is going to get ugly

welcome to zilvia.net :D

[AKADriver]

look closely at the specs and you'll see the difference... specifically these lines:

Red-Top S13 SR20DET 180SX 91-93 and Silvia 91-93
Black-Top S13 SR20DET 180SX 94-98

decide for yourself if that difference is important.

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Originally posted by AKADriver
look closely at the specs and you'll see the difference... specifically these lines:

Red-Top S13 SR20DET 180SX 91-93 and Silvia 91-93
Black-Top S13 SR20DET 180SX 94-98

decide for yourself if that difference is important.

But it also says that the blacktop fits the s13, isn't the s13 89-94?

(sorry if im missing somethin here, im j/a lil' confused w/some fo this stuff, and i've been reading thru plenty of threads for the past few days)

[StreetConcept]

The Biggest Difference Between the two is that the blacktops are newer ( s13 models) so chances are they will be in better condition and less mileage but that could also mean abit more expensive. depending on where u buy it. Dont forget Heavy throttle isnt the only distributor of silvia engines ( sr20det, ca18det, ka24(d)e ) But as most sites say generally be wary of anything less that 1500 but if u find something cheap and working then go for it :) the point is to make the car fast on a limited budget :) atleast thats my goal anyhow hope this post helped

[StreetConcept]

Its the same engine with a different valve cover so yes it does fit the 89-90 models but in the US the single cam ka24e ( engine in 89-90 240) makes the swap alittle harder since it isnt DOHC but not much more difficult.

[DoriftoSlut]

Re: Differences between 180sx (R*S13) models and years:

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26960

[mrmephistopheles]

I'd get a pinktop... Those are the fastest!

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
I'd get a pinktop... Those are the fastest!
Don't be stealing my valvecover ideas now. C'mon cut that out.

[mrmephistopheles]

When all else fails you try looking here: click (http://www.zilvia.net/f/search.php?s=)

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
When all else fails you try looking here: click (http://www.zilvia.net/f/search.php?s=)

Hey man, like I said b4, i've been searching through threads for the past while.. I kno how it is when a newbie shows up askin questions w/out searching, i'm always on www.v6accord.com , i kno how it is, we get the same thing. But i DID search through plenty of threads, cut me some slack man..

[HaLo]

Originally posted by iLLeGaLaKKoRd
Hey man, like I said b4, i've been searching through threads for the past while.. I kno how it is when a newbie shows up askin questions w/out searching, i'm always on www.v6accord.com , i kno how it is, we get the same thing. But i DID search through plenty of threads, cut me some slack man..

Then why did you ask the question? You should've known the answer.

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

well im sorry, i'as j/confused..

plus i din't say i read through ALL of 'em, i j/said i've BEEN reading through 'em...

n u can't say this stuff isn't confusing..

i mean all this kouki chuki stuff.. its hard man :confused:

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by iLLeGaLaKKoRd
cut me some slack man..

HAAHAH WTF? How am I getting on your case?! I just gave you a way to get more info! Holy crap! ppls need to chill! :D :D :D :D

[elevator]

Originally posted by Bbandit
its because its the SAME!!
s13 redtop and blacktop is exactly the same except the valve cover color!

Untrue!

2 words...search more.:rolleyes:

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
HAAHAH WTF? How am I getting on your case?! I just gave you a way to get more info! Holy crap! ppls need to chill! :D :D :D :D

lol no no, i didn't take offense nor did i mean anything offensively, i'as j/sayin, das all :)

[Bbandit]

Originally posted by gladhatter
Untrue!

2 words...search more.:rolleyes:

un-untrue!

3 words.. search even more :p

[nrcooled]

I have never been a big fan of people buying 240s for the swap. You are writting off the KA as if it is nothing. Most of the ungodly fast 240s on Zilvia are KAs (granted they are s14s but fast none the less)

It sounds like you have too much SuperStreet knowledge and not enough real knowledge of the car, engine, swap in general. "I wanna do the swap so I can call my car a 180sx" It's getting old:rolleyes: :mad:

I'm not trying to flame but this is really getting old. I did hour after hour of research before I bought my Redtop. Trolled forums, called different distributers, hunted down as much information as possible then made my decision on what I wanted and why. This was before the SCC article so there was not a real big knowledge base outside of hardcore enthusiests. Also there were not that many swaps running around the east coast.

If you want the info it's out there you have just been too lazy to find it. Which means you are just like all the other "I don't have a 240 but already talking about the SR" posers

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Originally posted by nrcooled
I have never been a big fan of people buying 240s for the swap. You are writting off the KA as if it is nothing. Most of the ungodly fast 240s on Zilvia are KAs (granted they are s14s but fast none the less)

It sounds like you have too much SuperStreet knowledge and not enough real knowledge of the car, engine, swap in general. "I wanna do the swap so I can call my car a 180sx" It's getting old:rolleyes: :mad:

I'm not trying to flame but this is really getting old. I did hour after hour of research before I bought my Redtop. Trolled forums, called different distributers, hunted down as much information as possible then made my decision on what I wanted and why. This was before the SCC article so there was not a real big knowledge base outside of hardcore enthusiests. Also there were not that many swaps running around the east coast.

If you want the info it's out there you have just been too lazy to find it. Which means you are just like all the other "I don't have a 240 but already talking about the SR" posers

Well actually I'm not plannin on building on the sr20 motor if I get it, basically Im going all show w/my accord that I have now, and j/want a daily driver w/some kick..

N i haven't read w/e super street article ur talkin bout.. :(

[elevator]

Have you ever tried to bolt a black top valve cover onto a red top head?

The black top is capable of being modded to more hp than the red top.

[Bbandit]

if you are talking about the s14 blacktop.. then you're right
but for s13 redtop/blacktop.. last time i checked, its the same..
or maybe i should go to my friend's place who has both of them.. maybe his s13 blacktop has grown into something different

[Bliss]

Here you go. NICO's thread. Talks about differences similarities.

Red top vs Black Top (http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/vbulletin225/showthread.php?threadid=8362)

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by gladhatter
The black top is capable of being modded to more hp than the red top.

not true. MUCH to generic a statement.

Redtops and Blacktops are equally capable engines.

[Foxcolt]

:eek: o my gooseness there's a lot of misinformation being spread.

S13 redtops and S13 blacktop differences are so minor that they are negligable.

Here's what I say (because I get asked this question A LOT).

If you plan on building your motor...buy a redtop..save the dough.

If you don't buy a blacktop since it's newer.

Simple.


Gladhatter: I suspect your talking about s14 blacktops. However I have yet to see any proof stating that the s14 blacktops are in fact stronger nor can handle more horsepower! Put a t28 on a s13 motor as it's just as fast as the s14.
Till I see proof, I call BS.

[DoriftoSlut]

Go to NICO's thread and read what 1Bad180sx wrote. That is very helpful in this topic/debate.

[Yoshi]

Wow.
I'm with foxcolt, this is a really good example of bad info (s13 red vs s13 blacktop) :P hehee

illegalakkord (sp?): here's some pointer for not getting flamed or marked as a ricer in the 240 world, btw, none of this is meant to offend you, so take it with a silo of salt ;P

- Don't call it a 180sx, it's a 240 hatch or even RPS13. 180sx's are found in australia, japan and a few other countries, but not north america, no matter how far you might mod the car, it's still a 240hatch

- Don't call a s13 coupe a Silvia for pretty much the same reasons as above.

- this whole SR vs KA debate is as old as the cars themselves, there's no right or wrong, only personal preference.
edit: that should read "SR vs. KA+T"

- use the search button A LOT, and if you can't find what you specifically want, post the links you viewed as proof that you tried, and people will respect that and be more willing to help you out... kinda crappy but that's how it is.

- Super Street is crap. Don't believe everything you read, especially in that mag... we've found LOTS of misinformation there, it's pretty much a ricer mag as far as 90% of us are concerned. (tho it IS good if you do the show car thing)

- tHanKs F0r /\/oT p0sTinG LiKE y0uR /\/a/\/\e, p30pl3 h8 th|s [email protected]

- also don't be talkin' smiz-ack like dis playah, o' u gon get mad flamed y0! ;)

- don't forget that s13's are as much as 14 years old! Most cars you get are going to need some work, so don't expect to be able to find a cheap 240 and expect to hop in and be a "mad tyte dori mastah" ;)

anywayz, welcome to Zilvia :)

[DoriftoSlut]

Yoshi, 180's are 200sx's in Australia. PS13 coupes, S14's are also 200sx in Oz-land. 180sx is a name reserved for the Japanese market.:rolleyes: :p

[nismo_sr_20]

very slight differences

[iLLeGaLaKKoRd]

Originally posted by Yoshi
Wow.
I'm with foxcolt, this is a really good example of bad info (s13 red vs s13 blacktop) :P hehee

illegalakkord (sp?): here's some pointer for not getting flamed or marked as a ricer in the 240 world, btw, none of this is meant to offend you, so take it with a silo of salt ;P

- Don't call it a 180sx, it's a 240 hatch or even RPS13. 180sx's are found in australia, japan and a few other countries, but not north america, no matter how far you might mod the car, it's still a 240hatch

- Don't call a s13 coupe a Silvia for pretty much the same reasons as above.

- this whole SR vs KA debate is as old as the cars themselves, there's no right or wrong, only personal preference.
edit: that should read "SR vs. KA+T"

- use the search button A LOT, and if you can't find what you specifically want, post the links you viewed as proof that you tried, and people will respect that and be more willing to help you out... kinda crappy but that's how it is.

- Super Street is crap. Don't believe everything you read, especially in that mag... we've found LOTS of misinformation there, it's pretty much a ricer mag as far as 90% of us are concerned. (tho it IS good if you do the show car thing)

- tHanKs F0r /\/oT p0sTinG LiKE y0uR /\/a/\/\e, p30pl3 h8 th|s [email protected]

- also don't be talkin' smiz-ack like dis playah, o' u gon get mad flamed y0! ;)

- don't forget that s13's are as much as 14 years old! Most cars you get are going to need some work, so don't expect to be able to find a cheap 240 and expect to hop in and be a "mad tyte dori mastah" ;)

anywayz, welcome to Zilvia :)

Thank you for the warm welcome :)

[wingsnthangs]

Does nobody love the NA KA24DE? :( Is that all our 240SX's are worth? Compatability with forced induction? Sigh.

I sometimes get the feeling people love the SR rather than the 240.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by wingsnthangs
Does nobody love the NA KA24DE? :( Is that all our 240SX's are worth? Compatability with forced induction? Sigh.

it is what it was meant to have. :D

[nismo_sr_20]

i like the ka alot. i just didnt want to go through the trouble of rebuilding my ka then adding a turbocharger. i just wanted to start with a newer block and already have a turbo

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
Yoshi, 180's are 200sx's in Australia. PS13 coupes, S14's are also 200sx in Oz-land. 180sx is a name reserved for the Japanese market.:rolleyes: :p

oh jeeze, everyone knew what I meant, my post was long enuff as it was, I was attempting to be brief. :rolleyes:

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by Yoshi
oh jeeze, everyone knew what I meant, my post was long enuff as it was, I was attempting to be brief. :rolleyes:
I know you know. I'm just being anal because I don't want to correect liek 84 people in like 5 months when it get brought up and they said "well I red it here...". This is what happened to the whole "Type-X" bodykit instead of "Kouki". Because no one was corrected, even Suppliers/distributors in the US say "Type-X lights" or "Type-X this, that, etc..".

[HaLo]

Originally posted by Yoshi
- Don't call it a 180sx, it's a 240 hatch or even RPS13. 180sx's are found in australia, japan and a few other countries, but not north america, no matter how far you might mod the car, it's still a 240hatch


hey Yoshi, I'll call my car whatever I feel like considering the amount I've splurged on it. ;) If I feel like calling it a flying potatoe, I will, but I prefer 180sx. ;)

[Yoshi]

Originally posted by HaLo
hey Yoshi, I'll call my car whatever I feel like considering the amount I've splurged on it. ;) If I feel like calling it a flying potatoe, I will, but I prefer 180sx. ;)

mental note, halo has a 93 pearl white flying potato :D ;) :rolleyes: :) :p

[HaLo]

Originally posted by Yoshi
mental note, halo has a 93 pearl white flying potato :D ;) :rolleyes: :) :p

lmao

you forgot these:
:o :confused: :( :eek: :mad: :cool:

[elevator]

Originally posted by wingsnthangs
I sometimes get the feeling people love the SR rather than the 240.
Yes, I love my sr.

[Warwick5s]

Originally posted by wingsnthangs
Does nobody love the NA KA24DE? :( Is that all our 240SX's are worth? Compatability with forced induction? Sigh.

I sometimes get the feeling people love the SR rather than the 240.

i agree. it's got all the mad jdm tyte appeal right now, plus it's a lot tyter(?) to drop it into a RWD chassis instead of the SE-R so you can be mad dorifto guy.

i'd almost rather build up the ka to hp levels that are around the stock ca18 hp level and be done with it. i don't need the PSSSHT, or the whistle, or 500 hp...besides it's all been done so much it's basically expected that you have an SR.

who would have thought? 'be different! keep the KA!'

when i get a newer car in a few years - i'm gonna do the nismo carb kit. THAT'LL be different.

[elevator]

Originally posted by Warwick5s
i ...besides it's all been done so much it's basically expected that you have an SR.

Yeah, everybody has an SR. :rolleyes:

Like that is the most common engine on the road? Give me a break! It is STILL RARE! There are a lot more KAs than SRs in the states. You only hear that it is done by everybody from those who can't get one or don't know what to do with one if they get one.

Just like size doesn't matter is what those say who have little ones.:D

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by Warwick5s
i agree. it's got all the mad jdm tyte appeal right now, plus it's a lot tyter(?) to drop it into a RWD chassis instead of the SE-R so you can be mad dorifto guy.
Um yeah, because if you drift, you might as well just go with an SE-R. Jesus. Lots of RWD guys drift. 240's are RWD. Lots of Drifters need/want more power. SR bolts up. Yeah, EVERYONE who drifts only does so to be cool and have an SR.
You people are so cynical. If you want more power in your 240sx, the most viable way to go about this is forced induction. Whether you are drifting or drag racing, spirited driving or cruising. Now this power can come from a KA-T setup that requires a lot of custom work, or an SR that requires a LOT less (basic levels here). Then, as a drifter, I (along with heaps of other guys) chose that th SR's more flat, higher revving less sudden torque/power curve, it would be smoother and more predictable for drifting. Yes a lot of people are getting SR's. But most drifters that are getting them (real drifters, not posers that look like drifters) are getting them because of their benefits and huge support and research (especially in Japan). WHO CARES!?!?!

OMG! People have silver rims on their car! WTF, why are they being so F_cking Trendy!?! OMG All these drifters have silver wheels! I wanted silver wheels first! I planned on getting them before any of you!!!!! WTF, what a bunch of posers.:rolleyes:

[Foxcolt]

Originatlity is NOT calling something unoriginal because everyone but YOU has it.:D

[Steeles]

Hey Lindsay were you around this weekend when the guy asked me if mine was a KA? the only SR'd 240 out there and after like four people asked if Will's stock KA was a SR mine gets the question "thats a KA right?" I about died laughing. luckily mr orange shirt was there to talk to the guy while I composed myself. I hate laughing at stupid people too their faces. its much more fun behind their backs.

Oh and dude with the white eclipse WAS the one that swore out he beat me but cant believe I beat him cause I was only making 205 and his GST was supposed to have 250 at the wheels. lol also told people he had 10 grand in the engine. but thats cause he pulled a may

[StreetConcept]

Id have to go with Halo on this one, what we call the car in general should be whatever we feel like it... we should really just use the official names when talking baout technicall differences but like he said if i wanna call my 240 a flying potato i will , god forbid if i wanna cal it a civic i will. cause this isnt a technical chat ... so lets not get technical.

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by Steeles
Hey Lindsay were you around this weekend when the guy asked me if mine was a KA? the only SR'd 240 out there and after like four people asked if Will's stock KA was a SR mine gets the question "thats a KA right?" I about died laughing. luckily mr orange shirt was there to talk to the guy while I composed myself. I hate laughing at stupid people too their faces. its much more fun behind their backs.

Oh and dude with the white eclipse WAS the one that swore out he beat me but cant believe I beat him cause I was only making 205 and his GST was supposed to have 250 at the wheels. lol also told people he had 10 grand in the engine. but thats cause he pulled a may
I didn't hear that one, but I DID run into this situation:

"Hey does that Silvia have a redtop or blacktop?"
"Its a 240sx. And it has a blacktop."
"F_cker! He is the only one around here with that, and I was going to do it first."
"Oh yeah... where's your car?"
"Nah, he stole my plans, I haven't bought my car yet..."
"Uhhhh. Yeah, I'm going to go walk over here now."

[Steeles]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
I didn't hear that one, but I DID run into this situation:

"Hey does that Silvia have a redtop or blacktop?"
"Its a 240sx. And it has a blacktop."
"F_cker! He is the only one around here with that, and I was going to do it first."
"Oh yeah... where's your car?"
"Nah, he stole my plans, I haven't bought my car yet..."
"Uhhhh. Yeah, I'm going to go walk over here now."

hahah was that this weekend? too funny! Stubby's RB got called an SR once I think I heard. and the guy that asked the Skyline owner if his car had an RB25 in it. (this with the hood up and the RB26 on the cam cover in plain clean sight)

[Warwick5s]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
Um yeah, because if you drift, you might as well just go with an SE-R. Jesus. Lots of RWD guys drift. 240's are RWD. Lots of Drifters need/want more power. SR bolts up. Yeah, EVERYONE who drifts only does so to be cool and have an SR.
You people are so cynical. If you want more power in your 240sx, the most viable way to go about this is forced induction. Whether you are drifting or drag racing, spirited driving or cruising. Now this power can come from a KA-T setup that requires a lot of custom work, or an SR that requires a LOT less (basic levels here). Then, as a drifter, I (along with heaps of other guys) chose that th SR's more flat, higher revving less sudden torque/power curve, it would be smoother and more predictable for drifting. Yes a lot of people are getting SR's. But most drifters that are getting them (real drifters, not posers that look like drifters) are getting them because of their benefits and huge support and research (especially in Japan). WHO CARES!?!?!



maybe i worded something wrong, but my comments weren't aimed at people who ACTUALLY drift, only the 'posers that look like drifters.'

and i have been asked by complete strangers when they look at my STOCK 240 'hey man, you got the SR in there, right?' i can't be the only one.

[StreetConcept]

Noone has even mentioned the possible rb25det swap yet .. just a thought now not trying to throw a wrench into everyones gears here but everyone talks about the SR this and SR that like its the only swap for a 240sx thats feasable. alot of people who are posers dont even know that you can swap in a CA18det or a RB25det or even turbo a ka24de they just think the KA is crap and that the SR is the way to go for now im a poser honestly sinc ei dont have a 240 of my own(workin on that dont get me wrong just dont have much $$ on me at this time) but ive been doing research on other posibilities other then the SR swap though i still do think the SR is a great engine its not the only thing out there. thats just my worthless 2 cents

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by StreetConcept
Noone has even mentioned the possible rb25det swap yet .. just a thought now not trying to throw a wrench into everyones gears here but everyone talks about the SR this and SR that like its the only swap for a 240sx thats feasable.

no one mentioned it ON THIS THREAD because if you read the title its "Redtop? or Blacktop? Which is better for 180sx?"

redtop and blacktop refer to SR20det
so that's why rb was never mentioned

it (RB) has been discussed many many times on zilvia previously and will be in the future.