Tein Hard Tie Rods

[Dousan_PG]

WELL! i did it!
installed them today sicne i got them today (yeah yeah i have no patience)

WOW these suckers are BEEFY!!! im very impressed in both its quality and ease of install

why did i buy them?
I go drifting a lot
1 friend broke his going around a cone
another friend bend his (seriously bent) at the track friday
Mike (VRT) broke his dropping a wheel at the track
i read a lot of drifters bring extra tie rods to the track. after the above 2 (top 2) incidents, i seriosuly understand why!!

ok. let's begin:

Tein Hard Tie rods (inner) retail: 80 dollars
Tein Tie Rod endlinks: retail 80 dollars
you MUST buy the endlninks w/ the hard tie rods!! stock WILL NOT FIT the inner rods!!


i bought mine thru JDM Spec Performance in IL. contact Leo:

http://www.jdmspecperf.com/
836 Arlington Heights Rd. #192
Elk Grove, IL 60007
Phone : (630) 890 -6341
Fax : (630) 563-0343
HOURS (CST)
M-Th 12-8
F 12-6
order inquries: [email protected]


album: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290310787

OK the actual install:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p16149bf52238595f29238f670bbfa51b/fc4bde8e.jpg

Jack car and place jack stands
Remove Wheels
Turn wheel (easy access to tie rods)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pa54492454e612f7e23b0fd28103b226f/fc4bdd0e.jpg

remove cover boot on inner rod (has a wire strap type deal holding it

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p0a1023bb26243a7f1b4db182738111a5/fc4bdc9b.jpg

pull the boot forward to expose ball joint (beware, its greasy and messy)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pca0386197f7f508a095aa1ba7d75c25c/fc4bdc4d.jpg

loosen ball joint on tie rod endlink. bang out
now loosen and remove the inner rod
COUNT THREADS! VERY IMPORTANT!

compare w/ stock
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/paa0d08e6793c8cb74b8044c6437911c6/fc4bdb86.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pa305311ac371d561539ba39e085105cc/fc4bd8e6.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pa28fc08bcf3cb753485b575b979b1d4c/fc4bdb04.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pb20725a0beb4a18d6adad80b17cfe48d/fc4bda59.jpg
OH DAMN! tein MUCh beefier!
install (reverse of above) torque to specs
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p21d4acd9b277bfb4f44689758d01bc2e/fc4bd85f.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p8f369272283779677990e90d218f20bf/fc4bd80a.jpg
cover boot back over the rack.
do other side (same process)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p60742b977812c6201b695dd56950802e/fc4bd9e7.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pa328da3ff8d240fc39c45ca2539d1013/fc4bd95f.jpg


baddabing. wheels on and drive off!
GET AN ALIGNMENT (i am this week)

i'll continue the write up AFTER the alignment (write about handling)

right now, felt less bumpsteer, car felt VERY smooth on the freeway. but i'll write aout that when my head is clear and car is properly aligned!

any comments?!

[mrmephistopheles]

Now THIS is the GOOD ****! This is what I like to see! Thanks a ton, Aaron!

[240Stilo]

I thought the beefyness was just to keep it from breaking, without any performance gain.

[Dousan_PG]

actually i was told they are desined primarily for lowered cars
they seems can move a lot easier
i heard some bumpsteer would be eliminated, as do the KAZAMA endlinks
that's the purpose of them

ill findout soon after alignment
riding home felt tad smoother, but i'd rather not say becase of lack of alignment and my mind wasnt on my car at that time
i'll know tomorrow driving to work
i go same way everyday and know the road well


also yeah the keepingit from breaking was the PRIMARY reason i bought these. breaking tie rods at teh track SUCKS.

oh time to do install, worked by myself for the most part (my friend pushed brakes for me when i removed and torqued wheels) took about 2 hours. maybe bit more because i ddint count threads and hand to hadn measure it to get a 'driveable" alignment! d'oh!

[ny_jee]

Bro, did you leave out the spacer for the rod or did you installed that too? The above pix didn't show whether you had them or not. Some pix in your imagestation albums had them. So, what's up? You gonna get more countersteer or not?

[Dousan_PG]

DUDE! i put the spacer IN! haha
ill take pics after alignemtn so my toe will be at 0
i'll get pics nex to my friends car so you can see the change
yeah the spacer is in. no doubt
the other reason i bought it

i'll be drifting like haruguchi's (yellow FC) in no time :p yeah....riiiiight.

[FRpilot]

does anyone know the difference between the tein hard tie rods and jics? is there much difference at all besides the 450+ price tag on jic' and $80 for teins? the jic tie rods look nice but at $450 each.. i dunno.. they look kinda beefier from pictures than teins but i dont know if its worth the price

dousan, will the kazama tie rod ends fit on the tein tie rods like cake or the thread pattern is different?? should be the same right? stock..

[Dousan_PG]

no!
here's where it gets REALLY complicated (for the dummies outthere--and there's a lot)

basically
s13 tie rods (stock) you use s13 kazama tie rod endlinks

tein hard tie rods you use s14 kazama tie rod endlinks


JIC? F*ck JIC

[ny_jee]

Was talking to the other aaron today about the tie rod. My friend bought the JIC rod and still hasn't put them in yet. He mentioned a special tool to take out the rod, but seems like you didn't need any special tools... I am confused now, I assume that it was pretty easy to take out the rod w/o any special tools, correct? Or maybe the JIC rods are different?

[Dousan_PG]

nah

tools used?

cresent wrench
needle nose pliers
screwdriver
hammer (mallet-heavy one for ball joint)
19mm wrench

elbow grease and my brain

note that BRAIN USAGE is the most important of all those.

[NiteKids]

Originally posted by dousan36

JIC? F*ck JIC

Hey now...were not talkin about what you think of the people who run it but the products themselfs. :eek:

[Dousan_PG]

haha i know
thats why idont support JIC
products are great
but the people suck=no support from me or my friends

also JIC is VERY pricey and im extremely interested in WHY
beefier? longer? more adjustabilty?
i'd like to know

nicky-find out!

[adey]

I have to say though, JIC hard tie rods LOOK different... I don't know if that has anything to do with anything, though. We'll know when NY_Jee's friend puts his rods in. In his car, not in NY_Jee. :D

[NiteKids]

Since JIC is domestically available now I don't understand why their products are SOO expensive. There shouldn't be the "jdm tyte" mark up on them.

[ny_jee]

I've personally seen the JIC rod, it's beefy alrite... Haven't seen the tein rods, so can't make a comparison there. But in relation to my ST sway bars... The JIC rods are about as beefy as the front one, hope that draws a better picture for y'all. BTW, the spacer on the JIC rod is built in. That's about all I know. Are JIC's better, I don't know for a fact that they are. Are they beefy, yes. Is the built in spacer better than a add-on like tein or any other company, I have no clue. My friend hasn't put them in on his car yet, so I can't tell you if it made a huge difference. He was able to use Kazama end links tho. I haven't driven a car w/ tein rods in them(what you doing this weekend, aaron?), so I can't give any feedback on them either. But I'd love to find out tho.

[FRpilot]

whoa.. i just went to browse the for sale and gb forum and just came back to see so many replies.. anyways.. thanks for the info dousan. i mighta made a big ass mistake in buying the wrong super tie rod ends. thats kinda odd.. why do the tein tie rods use s14 tie rod ends? :confused: did tein make the thread pattern on their tie rods for s14?

[Dousan_PG]

oh that's what richard told me
he has the s13 kazama ones and he was Tein hard rods

also, it is the size. the tein uses s14 size (M14)
s13 is M12 size

[Dousan_PG]

yeah i'll be in walnut this weekend it seems...water pump replacing d'oh! hahahaha..oh well

wow the jics WOULD be super heavy duty! sweet. but not for 400+ bucks! ouch. well only suckers pay retail so im sure can get it much cheaper, but still, that's laot

sounds good. i can wait to see your friend's, im very interested in them.

[240Stilo]

Originally posted by ny_jee
Haven't seen the tein rods, so can't make a comparison there.
Isn't the picture of the Tein rod in comparison to the stock rod up at the start of the thread?:confused:

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by 240Stilo
Isn't the picture of the Tein rod in comparison to the stock rod up at the start of the thread?:confused:

he means JIC vs. TEIN vs. STOCK comparisions

[ny_jee]

Originally posted by 240Stilo
Isn't the picture of the Tein rod in comparison to the stock rod up at the start of the thread?:confused:

Sometimes pix don't do justice. For example, the pix of JIC rods doesn't justify its price. Seeing it in person(although I still think it's overpriced), it's really well made and beefy. Although aaron took pic of the tein rod next the stock ones, haven't seen them in person, I don't want to jump to conclusion.

[FRpilot]

yea.. the jic pics make the jic tie rods look nice.. it probably is nicer than teins and a little beefier.. but just a little.. i dont think its 4 times nicer to justify for the 4 times difference in price hike? i dunno. they look maybe twice as nice if that.. maybe if they were $200 i'd consider buying them..

[johnadams]

so the hard tie rods are basically the same thing as the kazama super tie rod end.

Then what is a pillow tension rod?

thanks for the help

[Steeles]

good write up Dous! get it aligned and let us know how they are! lol Im sure the first time I bend a tie rod those'll go in! So the Tiens work with the Kazama super end links huh cool.

[AKADriver]

nice writeup!

now for a noob question from the guy with 1600 posts - is tie rod breakage a typical consequence of high cornering forces, or is it something that comes from hopping curbs and lots of quick steering wheel movement?

For $160 for the complete setup I might consider these if I ever need to replace tie rod ends anyway... and DEFINITELY if I ever break a tie rod heh

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by johnadams
so the hard tie rods are basically the same thing as the kazama super tie rod end.

Then what is a pillow tension rod?

thanks for the help

John.. I've read a few of your posts now.. and you definately need to spend some time with our friend, and yours:

http://www.zilvia.net/f/blued2/top_search.gif (http://www.zilvia.net/f/search.php?s=)

[sykikchimp]

Dousan, I'm most interested in HOW they acheive more countersteer.. You should climb up under there and take some illustrative pics of how the Spacer works. :D :D :D

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
Dousan, I'm most interested in HOW they acheive more countersteer.. You should climb up under there and take some illustrative pics of how the Spacer works. :D :D :D

the spacer allows the "block" or "stopper" part of the inner tie rod to be slighty further away from the rack. This allows a few more degrees bfore they finally contact.

From Mike aka DJElektrique:
"Here.... I made a diagram.
The green color is the spacer.
Notice how the rack will stop moving because
the opposite side (the red colored tie rod joint on the right) hits the rack, keeping it from turning anymore.

Well, add in the green spacers and you just made the rack longer and it will turn that much more before the red tie rod joint hits the rack. Easy as using brake cleaner to clean your hands. "

http://www.djelektrique.com/images/rack.jpg

Here is the full thread on FA: http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67347302&Forum=UBB9&Words=steering%20mod&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=6months&Main=67322720&Search=true#Post67347302

[AKADriver]

Hmmm... I think if you lengthen the inner tie rods (with the spacer) then shorten the outer tie rods (with the normal toe adjustment) you'll alter the steering geometry such that the knuckle moves through more of an arc for a given amount of movement at the rack.

Edit: I guess not... hahaha oh well, all that doodling on the back of a calendar page for nothing!

[Dousan_PG]

yeah VRT pic rocks
he'll probably reply on FA about it i posted it there

yeah turning. oh damn. well my toe is off (big time) but let me give example

i do a uturn everyday on my street to leave (its a culdesac)
so usually i end up getting REALLY close to the curb (scuffing tire) or have to make a 3pt turnabout

this morning. i had, i kid you not, a HUGE gap by the time i ended the uturn. the radius was SO MUCH tighter
when i get the alignement fixed, we'll shoot some video (digtal) of my car and my friends (stock setup) doing a uturn on the same street both this way:

full stop against sidewalk
turn to full left
turn

we both will have LSDs too, so already lose some uturning ability.

anyways, just to give an idea. its funny when i turned it all the way to see EVERYTHING (more then before) hahaha..

yeah i'll get more inf. when i crawled under there and turned everything i was lke "AH i see how that spacer works!!"
i am horrible at described. i'll try and get some vid/pcitures...one day. haha..im so lazy. and i hate lying under cars.
i'll get some vid of the crazy turning radius later! :)

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by dousan36
yeah i'll get more inf. when i crawled under there and turned everything i was lke "AH i see how that spacer works!!"
i am horrible at described. i'll try and get some vid/pcitures...
You are also horrible at engrish you FOB! i thought that was my job!:o :p

[Dousan_PG]

haha..yeah mi english sooks. i nede to go dun get edduducat'd.

[sykikchimp]

ROFL.. anyways.. so is the threaded part of the inner tie rod long? I guess the spacer goes into the rack while turning? Seems if the spacer stopped the inner tierod from going in as far then it would reduce the angle of the wheels..

So is the inner rod longer, and the outer rod shorter??

I'm so confused.. I guess I'm just going to have to buy a set to see for myself.. hehe :)

[Dousan_PG]

wait im typing as i think so its going to be goofy and confusing

right side

steering rack (rods move in and out left and right)
-----------
................[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here
-----------

[tie rod inner
---- is steering rack
on this pic is the far right, the part just left of the threads. this hits the steering rack to stop it from turning.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pf3cd06ba407a5e674c10d485b8200c4d/fc4bdbf4.jpg

now with spacer
-----------
................SPACER[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here
-----------

so now the spacer goes in (past) the steering rack, and then the tie rod inner hits it. so you get another 1/4 inch or so more turning

now with the spacer you cant thread it in as much so youll have toe out, but you fix that (w/ endlinks)

you wont be back at 0 because the inner rods can turn into the rack deeper then before, so that makes the steering longer (more turning/counter/wider..whatever)

does that make sense????????

[DoriftoSlut]

Umm.. Aaron's response does not make sense... Hahaha!

OK, the spacer does go into the rack. therefore, the rack moves MORE until the tie rod joint (stopper) hits the rack. to compensate for the added length, you back off the endlinks an appropriate amount of threads. There is plenty of fore-aft movement so that you do not decreas the steering angle or its capabilities, and there may even be more than stock (we need to get aaron to check this out).

Does this clarify anything? I know exactly what i am trying to say, so if you don't get it, i will try and explain it differently...

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
OK, the spacer does go into the rack. therefore, the rack moves MORE until the tie rod joint (stopper) hits the rack.

u summed up what i tried to explain up there in a few paragraphs!!!


DAMN YOU!!!

yeah spacer goes in so turns more...damn..i'll let doritos explain :D


(yes i spelled it doritos on purpose)

[240Dori]

Congrats to all....now only if there were more informative threads like this than all of the garbage that has to be sifted through...not only is a step by step install with pics included but an informative discussion about the improvements it makes over stock..

[[email protected]]

good job installing it... i almost lost mine to danny last friday. now
aaron, all u need to do is go top 3rd with high angle so u can use that extra 20% steering on full counter lock.

my friends in japan thinks that the TEIN hard tie rod/end are OEM replacement from another nissan car. thicker than stock S13 but
not as thick as the drift spec spl ones.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by driftheaven
aaron, all u need to do is go top 3rd with high angle so u can use that extra 20% steering on full counter lock.

my friends in japan thinks that the TEIN hard tie rod/end are OEM replacement from another nissan car. thicker than stock S13 but
not as thick as the drift spec spl ones.

3rd gear? I get an alignment tomorrow 9 am. i'll be doing more 3rd gear now that i get rid of that NASTY toe in :( boo hoo. i hate you bad alignment (changed suspension stuff w/ no time for alignment)

yeah i just read that by VRT. drift spec ones like JIC and another brand that got forwarded to me. check your email. :D

[[email protected]]

Originally posted by dousan36

yeah i just read that by VRT. drift spec ones like JIC and another brand that got forwarded to me. check your email. :D

where is it? i wanna see...

[sykikchimp]

yes.. I understand now.. VRT's diagram confused me b/c it didn't really look like the spacer was going into the rack..

Thanks Dousan!

[Dousan_PG]

cool

i got alignment appointment 9 am sharp tomorrow morning. i'll get some vid/whatever this weekend.
replacing water pump and rad hoses and thermostat so busy weekend :D er...more like :( still poor

[Steeles]

so wheres the update? hows the alignment?

[Dousan_PG]

oh i forgot haha
well, went well
except my rear toe arm is bent..still got WAY TOO MUCH toe in on the left. so im getting Battle Version adjustable rear arm i think. gotta call alex
anyways.

got it all fixedup
the turning radius. WOW. with the spacer its so much tighther
i was at Jspec and when we left, i parked along the sidewalk. everytime i have to make it a 3 pt turn on the street. not anymore! I cleared the curb w/ LOTS of room!

the spacer is a definate plus and im excited to see how it feels at the track drifting


car's got too many problem:
rear toe
waterpump leaks (replacing this weekend)
hairline crack on the z32tt rotor (grr)
rear coilover adjustment.

cars suck.

[Steeles]

awsome... *adds tein tie rods to list of suspension stuff to get* I see now Im just gonna wait and get all my suspension stuff and wait to install it all at once.. lol heck with the main seals leaking I may just wait till I can put her down for like a week and do a complete overhaul towards the end of may. now I need money...

[mrmephistopheles]

Are we ready to send this to the archive?

[Dousan_PG]

yeah i think im done
i hope to get some video or something next time on the next car and we'll add it here. some of my friends might buy it as well :)

[Foxcolt]

Can some one post the differences between the tiens and the JIC's/ other drift spec. Or two pictures side by side

Thanks!

[Dousan_PG]

JIC/'drift spec' are FAT and SUPER BEEFY

tein is thicker and stronger then OEM but not close to JIC/'drift spec' type

'drift spec' can take some serious abuse and offtracking im sure hehe...its scary to drop a wheel off the track when you clip an apex, i've done it! sounds...very very scary!

i'll go 'drift spec' later this year im sure (as will a few friends who track alot like me). maybe Uras. hmmm

pics? I have none. check JICs site in Japan and US. maybe search tie rod or hard tie rod on yahoo japan search engine?

[Foxcolt]

http://www.madpsi.net/tie-rod.jpg

Here's a pic of the Jic's.

These are designed to be used with stock of aftermarket tie rod ends i.e. Kazama, correct?

[Dousan_PG]

depends on the type of endlink it uses..m14 (s14, tien hard rods r32, etc)

i think s13 is m12 size. so if JIC s13 uses m12 then kazama s13 will work

if JIC uses m14 on both s14 and s13 rods the you need kazama s14 size

we tested the kazama s13 endlink on the tein s13 hard rod and didnt fit!



oh btw, people i saw (and examined closely) the KAZAMA endlinks last night WOW i was so lovin' it!!! very very very very nice!! i love the pillowball joint, perfect for lowered cars and response. ill be getting a set myself later! :)

[Steeles]

Originally posted by dousan36

oh btw, people i saw (and examined closely) the KAZAMA endlinks last night WOW i was so lovin' it!!! very very very very nice!! i love the pillowball joint, perfect for lowered cars and response. ill be getting a set myself later! :)

bish you were supposed to be in on the group buy! ;) got me all excited about them then backed out... :mad: lol. all good I need more people in on the rear arms sets get that price down some. mmm more stuff to buy.

[Dousan_PG]

i would still get them if i ahd the money. my car is going to hell w/ stuff and tire fund is seriously hurting.

i'll get them eventually. after seeing them last night i was very impressed.


got some other suspension goodies going on this weekend and more in 2 weeks :) and more stuff in a month hehehe...

track fees are hurting a lot. already spent 500 on track fees this year (5 events)

[Steeles]

Originally posted by dousan36
i would still get them if i ahd the money. my car is going to hell w/ stuff and tire fund is seriously hurting.

i'll get them eventually. after seeing them last night i was very impressed.

got some other suspension goodies going on this weekend and more in 2 weeks :) and more stuff in a month hehehe...

track fees are hurting a lot. already spent 500 on track fees this year (5 events)

hahaha man I wish I had a track I could hit up every weekend! I really would be broke! Think I'll quit going to strip clubs or somethin.. save for a massive overhaul of the car.

[Halz]

What similarities in wheel/tire size, alignment, and other suspension 'stuffs' are there between these cars that have been known to break tie rods?

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Halz
What similarities in wheel/tire size, alignment, and other suspension 'stuffs' are there between these cars that have been known to break tie rods?

they push the car to the limit
drifting or grip

[Halz]

Originally posted by dousan36
they push the car to the limit
drifting or grip

I don't doubt that.. but I am pretty sure a car with a stock suspension wont be breaking tie rods when fit with grippy tires, and put on the limit

[adey]

Halz - I think it's pretty obvious then -- you allude to it in your last post, almost.

Since coilover springs and valving are stiffer, more stress is placed on other elements of suspension and indeed the whole car, such as tie rods and tension rods.

With soft/stock suspension, it's soft and bouncy, and the shocks absorbs the force... turning it into heat.
You know, it's that equasion that includes Force, Time and Power or something like that. Same amount of power over longer time = less force or some crap. :D I never was a physicist.

[driftingpanda]

good stuff aaron! them shiny sticks sure look beefy. i am waiting for my spaghetti in the microwave, so i guess i'll share my humble (and quite possibly very, very wrong) opinions...

first, i seriously doubt the claim for partial elimination of bump steer. bump steer is caused by suspension geometry, and since a strait bar is being replaced by a strait bar, the geometry stays the same and therefore bump steer probability stays the same. i think they may have been refering to the decrease in toe change due to flex in the end link (and/or knuckle joint), rather than the decrease in toe change due to bump steer.

as for the reasons for tie rod failure, i agree that the main causes would include harsh driving stress and also added strain due to the lack of suspension movement caused by other aftermarket suspension pieces, however, since steel has a rather high stress endurance limit, i would also venture to guess that failure could be caused by material damage due to impact loading (i.e. letting the natural countersteer "slam" while attempting drifts, or a muscular leprechaun tangentially kicking a fully steered steering wheel repeatedly). all this, of course, does not include obvious reasons such as damage from rocks/curbs/etc.

to Dousan and Adey: by the way, i think i may have figured out the mysterious proper drift toe set up, it goes against a lot of conventional theories, and it is highly relative to the other setup specs of the car... i'll email you guys about it i guess.

oops. the spaghetti is ready. or should i say... speghetto... no meat. :(


danny

[Halz]

I was thinking of tie rod failure more along the lines of 1) the car being 'too low', placing the arms at a stupid angle when they're operating 2) spacers on the front wheels increasing the car's track, leveraging heavier loads on the bearing and therefore steering system 3) camber, caster, SAI being too far out of wack could also further increase loads on the system

[adey]

Originally posted by driftingpanda
oops. the spaghetti is ready. or should i say... speghetto... no meat. :( that sucks! Cut up some sausage franks and throw that in; it'd be better than nothing!

Anyway I think you mentioned the mystery drift toe specs to me yesterday, and it's something i was actually going to bring up but forgot to... we'll talk about it later. :)

[driftingpanda]

Halz, yes, it is true that excessive toe in/out would cause more strain on the tie rod, however when turning the car normally, the strain would exceed that of a strait-traveling misaligned car. as for the wheel dragging forces created by caster, they are also considered insignificant when compared to just harsh driving and "smacking" of the steering components. same thing goes for the larger scrub radius created by low offset wheels. in summary, suspension geometry itself could only cause so much strain, and the forces created by the above components are nothing compared to a hard full counter smack. hope that helps!

danny

[Night Slide Josh]

well i got these..
and my friend got the teins..
big differnce.. is size..
i also got the kazama tie rod ends..
i cant install any of these goodies yet till i get the nismo power brace, the kazama tc rod, and the pdm/whiteline front lca..
sorta bent my front left susp drifting
=*(

[Dousan_PG]

Night Slide Josh: im getting rid of mine for the ones like you got...but i'm getting URAS
yeah HUGE difference. and uras is pretty darn cheap! :)

[Night Slide Josh]

jic is nice and all but waaaaaay overpriced..
when they were japan only it seemed as though they werent as expensive..
go figure..
where do you get ur uras parts?

[Dousan_PG]

yeah JIC Japan is much cheaper then USA

check out the group buy section here on zilvia..some JIC might work if there are 10+ buyers

i geot URAS from zilvia member ruf (reflex racing). actually i buy all my stuff from him or jspec. that's all i need (aftermarket wise). :) their prices are the best and they can get anything i need.

[Night Slide Josh]

interesting..
when i have more money i shall look into it..
but... my friend just ordered the teins
and when he does his installation we shall do a stock vs tein vs jic...
side by side to show the actual difference..
hopefully it will be soon..

[Dousan_PG]

there's some in the FS section right now too i think..

yeah that would be rad
i'll do a URAS vs. stock vs. Tein when i get the URAS ones! :)