in relation to supreme court possibilities

[handinpants]

could there be a possibly technicality on the California Air Resource boards behalf, when they specifically target only japanese engines "Japanese Replacement Engines Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle."


Which I find it strange that it does not state anywhere else, europeon, korean, american, This rule only applies to Japanese replacement engines, and no other country's engine.....it's kind of biased and racist.....

and yes i know some topic of this has been covered in one form or another, many people ask how to legalise them... i I am not asking this. all i want to know is if this sounds like it is a biased decision on the California Air Resource Board / EPA.

[RPS13-604]

i think its bs its always us imports that get into shit. take a look at the domestics they always swapping diff motors into diff cars and they dont get bothered.....

[z2roll4life7]

That Does Seem Like its Racist Just Because we Have Jap Engine

[ronmcdon]

could there be a possibly technicality on the California Air Resource boards behalf, when they specifically target only japanese engines "Japanese Replacement Engines Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle."


Which I find it strange that it does not state anywhere else, europeon, korean, american, This rule only applies to Japanese replacement engines, and no other country's engine.....it's kind of biased and racist.....

and yes i know some topic of this has been covered in one form or another, many people ask how to legalise them... i I am not asking this. all i want to know is if this sounds like it is a biased decision on the California Air Resource Board / EPA.


do you have a link for the source used?

also, I'm not entirely certain I understand what you're saying.
are you claiming that CARB regulations now allow for engine swaps brought in from Japan?

Is this a biased decision?
Could be that japanese emissions regulations aren't that much different from CARB.
Euro standards for diesels could be too lax.

Other than europe & japan, REALISTICALLY, where else would you consider importing engines from?
India? Some POS econobox 1.2l engine from Daewoo?

What's most intriguing is how "functionally identical" is defined, and how loosely the term is applied.
Could mean the difference between being able to legally throw in an SR/RB in an S-chassis or not.
That's a REALISTIC concern.

[PinkPanther]

haha its not racist, they are just aware that Japan has the only engines that are worth importing into this country.

[ixfxi]

does it matter if your KA is made in Mexico?


hmmmmmmm... MDM baby... all about it

[CrazyIvan]

one more question, for expample if you import a sr engine from england, is it still considered a japanese imported engine if it didnt come from Japan?
Yeah, I know its a stupid question but thats another tecnicality

[mrflip69]

It's how Honda guys can get away with it. JDM engines are allowed if there's a similar or exact counterpart here in the states. ITR for example.

I've been wondering if there was a way to get an emissions legal RB for the S-chassis, since --some-- were legalized, but I mostly got cryptic answers from some of the people in the know, stating that that all the legalization info died with Motorex, or it wouldn't be worth jumping through the EPA/CARB hoops.

Hypothetically, if a california legal skyline were to get in a wreck, couldn't you swap the engine over to whatever chassis, since it qualifies under the "engine change" statutes?

And ^^, the SR still originated from Japan. I don't think they have manufacturing plants in England? Maybe they do like how we have (had?) one in Tennessee

[drift freaq]

It's how Honda guys can get away with it. JDM engines are allowed if there's a similar or exact counterpart here in the states. ITR for example.

I've been wondering if there was a way to get an emissions legal RB for the S-chassis, since --some-- were legalized, but I mostly got cryptic answers from some of the people in the know, stating that that all the legalization info died with Motorex, or it wouldn't be worth jumping through the EPA/CARB hoops.

Hypothetically, if a california legal skyline were to get in a wreck, couldn't you swap the engine over to whatever chassis, since it qualifies under the "engine change" statutes?

And ^^, the SR still originated from Japan. I don't think they have manufacturing plants in England? Maybe they do like how we have (had?) one in Tennessee

Ok first off, no you cannot get an emissions legal RB in your car. Just because Motorex did get the R33 GTST certified by the EPA, DOT and CARB does not make the engine legal outside of the car. Why? It was not an official production run engine sold here. How do I know this. I have had long discussions with referee's about what is legal and what is not.

Now, as for the wording that Handipants managed to dig up probably on the net from CARB's website. Fact is, the reason it is worded about Japanese engines is because Japanese cars were primarily the main imported cars that came in in large numbers in the 70's. In the 80's was when companies started importing Japanese engines and transmissions from Japan.

I owned a Japanese Engine and transmission business in the 80's Sun Performance Imports in the San Francisco bay area.

The wording handipants is citing is from that era. It is basically clarifying what is a legal JDM engine swap and what is not. I.E. replacement engine of the original engine that came in the Japanese car.

Which happened to be the majority of cars getting replacement engines in the 80's as there were and still are a high majority of Japanese cars on the road here in California. In fact those numbers are way higher than European makes.

Given all of this this is why it reads this way. Now for Honda owners certain swaps of JDM performance engines were quasi legal due to them having an exact detuned U.S. counterpart engine. I.E. B16 U.S. version B16 Japanese version. Nissan L16/L18 U.S. version Nissan L16 SSS L18 SSS Japanese versions. Toyota 3SGTE U.S. Version Toyota 3SGTE Japanese version.

Which is also way you see a lot of swapped MR2's running that were NA running JDM engines but still managing to make it through smog checks.

This is also why you cannot put a SR20DET in a S chassis and have it be legal. The engine never had a RWD U.S. spec counterpart.

In a nutshell thats all of it. Why it is written, the ins and outs and how it is

Oh and in no way could it constituted as racism. Engines are inanimate objects, regardless of country of Origin. LOL

[handinpants]

it was taken from Background Material: Replacement Parts Guidelines - Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts Regulations (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm)

[ronmcdon]

Ok first off, no you cannot get an emissions legal RB in your car. Just because Motorex did get the R33 GTST certified by the EPA, DOT and CARB does not make the engine legal outside of the car. Why? It was not an official production run engine sold here. How do I know this. I have had long discussions with referee's about what is legal and what is not.

Now, as for the wording that Handipants managed to dig up probably on the net from CARB's website. Fact is, the reason it is worded about Japanese engines is because Japanese cars were primarily the main imported cars that came in in large numbers in the 70's. In the 80's was when companies started importing Japanese engines and transmissions from Japan.

I owned a Japanese Engine and transmission business in the 80's Sun Performance Imports in the San Francisco bay area.

The wording handipants is citing is from that era. It is basically clarifying what is a legal JDM engine swap and what is not. I.E. replacement engine of the original engine that came in the Japanese car.

Which happened to be the majority of cars getting replacement engines in the 80's as there were and still are a high majority of Japanese cars on the road here in California. In fact those numbers are way higher than European makes.

Given all of this this is why it reads this way. Now for Honda owners certain swaps of JDM performance engines were quasi legal due to them having an exact detuned U.S. counterpart engine. I.E. B16 U.S. version B16 Japanese version. Nissan L16/L18 U.S. version Nissan L16 SSS L18 SSS Japanese versions. Toyota 3SGTE U.S. Version Toyota 3SGTE Japanese version.

Which is also way you see a lot of swapped MR2's running that were NA running JDM engines but still managing to make it through smog checks.

This is also why you cannot put a SR20DET in a S chassis and have it be legal. The engine never had a RWD U.S. spec counterpart.

In a nutshell thats all of it. Why it is written, the ins and outs and how it is

Oh and in no way could it constituted as racism. Engines are inanimate objects, regardless of country of Origin. LOL

lol, wishful thinking on my behalf thinking I could get a smog legal SR
guess I should have gone with a mister 2 instead of the 240.
thanks keeping my reality in check :(

[ronmcdon]

it was taken from Background Material: Replacement Parts Guidelines - Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts Regulations (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm)

What about the part you wrote about 'Supreme Court Possibilities'?
Is that something new?
If there is a new legal development that could effect the legality of engine swaps, i'm surely intrigued.

Link you provided showed existing regulations, and was last updated as of oct 2008.

[handinpants]

What about the part you wrote about 'Supreme Court Possibilities'?
Is that something new?
If there is a new legal development that could effect the legality of engine swaps, i'm surely intrigued.

Link you provided showed existing regulations, and was last updated as of oct 2008.

i never mentioned anything about new regulations, you did. I only mentioned supreme court, in efforts that they can uphold this ruling, as biased judgment.

we all know hands down that japan makes a better engine... i'm an american, and i take no pride in my countries engines, except in the intenational, cat, and other US made diesels

[ronmcdon]

I don't know if you're being serious, but your Engrish is impossible to follow.

[zenki.life]

I don't know if you're being serious, but your Engrish is impossible to follow.

:ddog: it seems as many people cannot speak english on this forum. lol

[DALAZ_68]

i think its bs its always us imports that get into shit. take a look at the domestics they always swapping diff motors into diff cars and they dont get bothered.....

well in CA there pretty much protected by the 30+ year rule...lucky arent they?

That Does Seem Like its Racist Just Because we Have Jap Engine

u realize the term Jap is a racist term itself right? guess not...

do you have a link for the source used?

also, I'm not entirely certain I understand what you're saying.
are you claiming that CARB regulations now allow for engine swaps brought in from Japan?



no, thats not wat he's sayin...

does it matter if your KA is made in Mexico?



my cuzin Julio, he'll give a a KA for bueno deal Señor

one more question, for expample if you import a sr engine from england, is it still considered a japanese imported engine if it didnt come from Japan?
Yeah, I know its a stupid question but thats another tecnicality

youre right, that is a stupid question...



I've been wondering if there was a way to get an emissions legal RB for the S-chassis, since --some-- were legalized, but I mostly got cryptic answers from some of the people in the know, stating that that all the legalization info died with Motorex, or it wouldn't be worth jumping through the EPA/CARB hoops.



if it wasnt offered in the states, and was never in the type of chassis...then no, thats it...

Ok first off, no you cannot get an emissions legal RB in your car. Just because Motorex did get the R33 GTST certified by the EPA, DOT and CARB does not make the engine legal outside of the car. Why? It was not an official production run engine sold here. How do I know this. I have had long discussions with referee's about what is legal and what is not.

Now, as for the wording that Handipants managed to dig up probably on the net from CARB's website. Fact is, the reason it is worded about Japanese engines is because Japanese cars were primarily the main imported cars that came in in large numbers in the 70's. In the 80's was when companies started importing Japanese engines and transmissions from Japan.

I owned a Japanese Engine and transmission business in the 80's Sun Performance Imports in the San Francisco bay area.

The wording handipants is citing is from that era. It is basically clarifying what is a legal JDM engine swap and what is not. I.E. replacement engine of the original engine that came in the Japanese car.

Which happened to be the majority of cars getting replacement engines in the 80's as there were and still are a high majority of Japanese cars on the road here in California. In fact those numbers are way higher than European makes.

Given all of this this is why it reads this way. Now for Honda owners certain swaps of JDM performance engines were quasi legal due to them having an exact detuned U.S. counterpart engine. I.E. B16 U.S. version B16 Japanese version. Nissan L16/L18 U.S. version Nissan L16 SSS L18 SSS Japanese versions. Toyota 3SGTE U.S. Version Toyota 3SGTE Japanese version.

Which is also way you see a lot of swapped MR2's running that were NA running JDM engines but still managing to make it through smog checks.

This is also why you cannot put a SR20DET in a S chassis and have it be legal. The engine never had a RWD U.S. spec counterpart.

In a nutshell thats all of it. Why it is written, the ins and outs and how it is

Oh and in no way could it constituted as racism. Engines are inanimate objects, regardless of country of Origin. LOL

pretty much sums it up

What about the part you wrote about 'Supreme Court Possibilities'?
Is that something new?
If there is a new legal development that could effect the legality of engine swaps, i'm surely intrigued.

Link you provided showed existing regulations, and was last updated as of oct 2008.

yeaaaaa....im pretty sure that wont change anytime soon

[Bigsyke]

Or, could it be they discriminate against imports because the typical import driver replicates FnF1-4 on public roads, usually has increased emissions, noise pollution etc. Why are people throwing the race card? You know throwing the "race" card doesnt enter you into some powerball lottery.

Since when are cars engine's, people?

[ericcastro]

Most of you are to young to even have been around in the 80's when Rednecks in the south were on the news.
they were burning, and crushing Japanese cars and saying, "buy american".
There was a whole movement for awhile.
You could pay 5 bucks and get a minute with a sledge hammer on a Japanese car, all in the name of "Buying American".

Like Drift Freaq said.
This law was written around that time and during that period of Anti Japanese cars.
Almost all members on this board are to green to even know anything about that era.

write your congressmen and state reps to say thats racist. write a letter to a news station. you can get the wording changed.
And maybe when they look at re writing the law, they will decide to change some things to allow engines in that will pass smog.
Or they could make things stricter?

[brndck]

dave for president.

why is it we are still seeing new threads basically asking "why can't i have a carb legal sr?"
haven't these topics been beaten to death enough already? regardless of what "racist" jargon is on the carb website, or what loopholes people dream up like running cng, the bottom line is:
SR, RB, ETC WILL NEVER BE STREET/CARB LEGAL IN CALI!!!!!!

deal with it. either get out of state registration from a state that doesn't care about motor swaps, or be prepared to deal with the gestapo police and the hassle that is the smog ref.
pay to play.

[Leo-kun]

I'm suprised that this law hasn't changed yet because of Japanese automobile industry has takin over the US.
GM is fucked.
Same with Chrysler.
Ford is actually still doing well considering the circumstances.

But in the end, Toyota, Nissan and Honda will the next "big three."

...unless Obama changes things. :rofl:

[Bigsyke]

For an OT question in a dying thread;

I know my state has a crime problem, and most of the police are busy dealing with constant theft, robberies, assaults etc. However I could only imagine cali being 100x worse, so these soo called gastopo police, is poppin' hoods more on their priority list? or is it more a game of "target of opportunity" and most people just get unlucky? If they prioritise one thing, they are provisioning their manpower away from protecting lives.

[kingkilburn]

The California Highway Patrol is more about making money from tickets than about any actual police work. They profile cars and people as a matter of protocol and break rules as a means of getting you mad(to get you to do something stupid).


They aren't all like that but I would say that it's a pretty accurate generalization.

[VROOOM]

we all know hands down that japan makes a better engine... i'm an american, and i take no pride in my countries engines, except in the intenational, cat, and other US made diesels


i would take a LS series V8 over most any japanese engine.

[ilikebooze]

I think it makes quite a bit of sense why officials are biased against japanese tuners.
Who are the street racers? Most often, japanese car drivers
What does the young crowd seem to gravitate to? Japanese cars

If all the young kids wanted VW's and such and were street racing them and the fast and the furious was all about 600hp GTI's then it would be euro's they are going after. It is not racist. It is the unfortunate result of the irresponsibility of many japanese tuners.

[racepar1]

You CAN have a CARB legal SR, all it takes is money. Lots and lots of money. As for the wording on the law, who cares? Regardless of the wording that law is enforced for ALL foriegn engines. If you try to get them to change it they'll just take it as an opportunity to get stricter.

[usajdm]

The California Highway Patrol is more about making money from tickets than about any actual police work. They profile cars and people as a matter of protocol and break rules as a means of getting you mad(to get you to do something stupid).


They aren't all like that but I would say that it's a pretty accurate generalization.
What are they trying to get you to do when they make you mad?
And since being "Highway" Patrol, wouldnt their main focus be the highway and the cars driving on them?
Inpaticular, the cars on the highway that are breaking the law, right?

[626slider]

wow, nice post . darn california. Everyone move to arizona

[kingkilburn]

Mostly it is things like stopping me because I fit some description and then insisting that they search my car with no probable cause.

There is also pulling me over for speeding(I wasn't). He claimed he clocked me at 85 going in the other direction. If you know your rights and the laws governing that he can't "clock" you in a moving vehicle and he can't judge your speed while driving towards you. He proceeded to warn me about my driving to cover his as when he couldn't intimidate me into accepting his ticket.


Also their name (CHP) is just that, a name. Their jurisdiction for enforcing the law is all of California except Federal land.

[usajdm]

Mostly it is things like stopping me because I fit some description and then insisting that they search my car with no probable cause.

There is also pulling me over for speeding(I wasn't). He claimed he clocked me at 85 going in the other direction. If you know your rights and the laws governing that he can't "clock" you in a moving vehicle and he can't judge your speed while driving towards you. He proceeded to warn me about my driving to cover his as when he couldn't intimidate me into accepting his ticket.


Also their name (CHP) is just that, a name. Their jurisdiction for enforcing the law is all of California except Federal land.

Gotcha........
All Im saying is that nobody gets f^(ked with for "no" reason.
Maybe this time you didnt do anything, but it makes up for when did do it, but didnt get caught.
Im 34, alittle older then most of you.
Ive been serving cars longer then some members have been alive(damn Im getting old), and I now can honestly say that I(we) ask for it every time we add a part or modify something.
If I couldnt learn to except it, then I should have stopped f^(kin with cars along time ago.


Oh, and the whole "racist" thing.
Wow, thats just straight bitching...... man up, quit being so sensitive.

[brndck]

You CAN have a CARB legal SR, all it takes is money. Lots and lots of money.

plz explain how, without mentioning bribery or making it a cng/flex fuel vehicle.
i'm not knocking you, just curious.

[racepar1]

plz explain how, without mentioning bribery or making it a cng/flex fuel vehicle.
i'm not knocking you, just curious.

Push it through the EPA/CARB. The only reason that it isn't legal is because nobody has come up with the money to pay for all the EPA/CARB bullshit. If you've got a few hundred grand to waste you could do it. You just do the exact same thing that nissan would have done to get it legal. It just doesn't make any sense though unless you are ungodly rich.

[brndck]

/\/\/\ good point. i know k&n hasta do basically that exact thing with every new filter they release, thats why they have a massive facility where they measure and collect all exhaust particles before and after installing their filters.

i was under the impression that this was not the case with engines. i mean, i know for a fact that it isn't that difficult to get an sr to pass a cali sniffer test, but i guess that isn't the point. well, when i win the lotto and have money to piss away i might just take up the cause.