Z32 rear uprights on S14. Will sphericals help my problem??

[az_240]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00000-1.jpg

I was about to change the diff fluid from my 2way when I noticed the rear z32 uprights were hitting the rear struts.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00001.jpg

On the drivers side the strut was actually resting on the upright!!!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00034.jpg

Another problem I have^^^

So does anybody have spherical bushings for the z32 shock mount on their S14? Did it correct this problem?

I still have my old stock uprights laying around but I would rather not have to go through the hassle of swapping everything and getting new rear mounts.

Either way I have to do something soon.... Im afraid I am going to break something


I WILL BE REMOVING MY Z32 UPRIGHTS AND REPLACING THEM WITH THE STOCK UPRIGHTS DUE TO THE BINDING ISSUES. TO ANYONE THINKING OF INSTALLING Z32 UPRIGHTS ON THEIR S14 I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT UNLESS YOU HAVE THE SHOCK MOUNT CUT AND WELDED CORRECTLY.

[mmdb]

I have the same problem and I have sphericals as well. Mine doesn't seem to bind so much, but I was thinking about grinding down the knuckle a little bit to give it a bit of clearance.

[az_240]

You have SPL sphericals? What coilovers do you have? Did you have the upright removed or were you able to install the bushings with the uprights on the car?

I really do not want to have to remove the uprights.

Would you be able to take a pic? I want to see how much clearance you have as well as the angle.

Thanks for the reply

[cdlong]

i can't imagine it would change anything since the relationship between the shock mount and the upright won't change. one thing i would look at is the clearance when the car is on the ground. i have the same setup with KTS coils and i don't think mine hit, but i'll have to check. i was considering the SPL sphericals too.

[az_240]

The car is on the ground in those pics.

It looks like my only option is to trim the upright with a dremel.

Other people with this setup should double check to be sure they do not have the same problem.

I still plan on purchasing sphericals as soon as I get money... if anybody knows of anything cheaper than SPL please let me know.

[OptionZero]

Other than SPL, the only choice is custom. Def was gonna make some, but he never got that project off the ground really.

mmbd got some custom made by some shop at Inifeon.

[Def]

Other than SPL, the only choice is custom. Def was gonna make some, but he never got that project off the ground really.

mmbd got some custom made by some shop at Inifeon.

I made quite a few sets. There just wasn't enough interest to really justify making another batch from a sales perspective(versus "I'm interested" talk).

Having to keep a huge batch on the shelf for months and months at a time really raises the carrying cost.


If there really is a lot of interest in the Z32 shock mount bearing I can get a machine shop I'm talking with to make a run of them.

[OptionZero]

got any left?

[cdlong]

If there really is a lot of interest in the Z32 shock mount bearing I can get a machine shop I'm talking with to make a run of them.

i'm up for a set, you know i'm good for it. i'm willing to prepay if necessary.

[mmdb]

I got mine made at a shop called "Performance Shock". I'm not sure on the dimensions of your fork, and I can only assume it's based off the OEM bushing which will probably will bind if you switch over to a spherical type. I can take a picture later tomorrow night if you're interested. Mine's binding a lil' so I'll grind down the knuckle a bit.

[datboibrad]

stupid question but is this only a s14 problem with the z32 hubs? i have them on my s13 with stance coils and z32 mounts and dont have nearly the same amount of binding angle with stock bushings. i plan on running z32 uprights on my s14 as well, just curious.

[longfellow]

I actually just noticed I have the same problem. I've been meaning to grind away a few milimeters in the next few days.

[cdlong]

s13 shares a lot with the z32. the s14 has a slightly different setup so it's the only one with the problem.

[longfellow]

I just figured its due to the extra 6" in shock length. I think notching the upright a bit should solve the problem on S14's. IIRC the Z32/S13 shocks are the same length.

My rear suspension looks exactly like whats in the picture, Z32 uprights, KTS coils, and SPL arms.

[xs240]

I wonder if this would occur if one were to swap an s14 or s15 subframe in on an s13?

[longfellow]

It has nothing to do with the subframe.

[az_240]

I got mine made at a shop called "Performance Shock". I'm not sure on the dimensions of your fork, and I can only assume it's based off the OEM bushing which will probably will bind if you switch over to a spherical type. I can take a picture later tomorrow night if you're interested. Mine's binding a lil' so I'll grind down the knuckle a bit.


How much did that set you back? I am interested in purchasing a pair if the price is right....maybe from Def if he has any left.
Also did you have to get them pressed in? Or were you able to do it with the uprights still on the car?


Looking at SPLs pic of their sphericals it looks like it might be cutting it close... if the angle is too much it might bind on itself.:-/


I tried trimming the uprights slightly and it is a BITCH.... I will have to get a better bit and try again later


And as stated earlier s13's do not have this problem because the angle is different for the coilover/strut

[mmdb]

How much did that set you back? I am interested in purchasing a pair if the price is right....maybe from Def if he has any left.
Also did you have to get them pressed in? Or were you able to do it with the uprights still on the car?


Looking at SPLs pic of their sphericals it looks like it might be cutting it close... if the angle is too much it might bind on itself.:-/


I tried trimming the uprights slightly and it is a BITCH.... I will have to get a better bit and try again later


And as stated earlier s13's do not have this problem because the angle is different for the coilover/strut

From Performance Shock I paid ~$60 in parts... labor is another question. They're not cheap fyi. I had them professionally pressed in while the spindle was removed from the car. Might be hell to do it while the spindle is on the car.

While you're doing that you might want to pick up DEF's spherical kit and install them for the other bushings in there and run full spherical. He uses Aurora bearings and installation was straight forward and fitment was spot on.

[projectRDM]

I'm in for a set if anyone makes them. You guys know I'm good for it.

[ManoNegra]

I'm in for a set if anyone makes them. You guys know I'm good for it.

I still have a KA oil block for you waiting... ;)
jk


we were/are going to make these but something
always seems to come up
and, as has been mentioned, they wouldn't be cheap
and knowing 240 owners I doubt it'd be worth the effort

[Def]

got any left?

None left.

I'll contact a machine shop I've got a relationship with to see if they can make some more.

The pricing was much more competitive than SPL's offerings, and I use top quality Aurora bearings.

[OptionZero]

Damn, looks like SPL's bushings were $300/pair! I know they're made by Border, but man . . .

[FRpilot]

it looks like it's bending due to the load on the rubber bushings.

if you get solid spherical bushings with the hole for the bolt drilled perfectly straight, it will allow the shock to sit at the perfect angle it is intended to. but judging form the picture, won't it force the lower shock body/fork to rub on the axles/cv boots instead?

now i am just wondering what the OP is too as stated in the thread title. "Will spheicals help my problem??"

[az_240]

Im bringing this thread back to see if anyone went through with installing the z32 shock mount sphericals on their s14. I'd really like to see pics if possible.

[ManoNegra]

Personally seen the ones installed in Arnie's car (cheeky14)
they helped a great deal with articulation but due to the length of the s14 rear shock and geometry
there was still some contact
he ended up grinding a part of the shock mount for better clearance

PM him to see if he's got pics

[95KA-Turbo]

I am planning on having my friend who can TIG extremely well modify my rear uprights so I the angle on the shock mount is corrected and the angle of the toe arm is parallel with the LCA - which has been modified to correct the roll center.

I would be interested in a pair of shock mount sphericals though....I am not sure what they run, but I know it would be MUCH better then the OEM bushings - and I have brand new ones of those sitting in a box in my closet, haha.

[Jonnie Fraz]

I am planning on having my friend who can TIG extremely well modify my rear uprights so I the angle on the shock mount is corrected and the angle of the toe arm is parallel with the LCA - which has been modified to correct the roll center.


I was just thinking about this...lol. I hope your buddy has a big machine...that knuckle is gonna soak up a bunch of heat.

[ManoNegra]

I am planning on having my friend who can TIG extremely well modify my rear uprights so I the angle on the shock mount is corrected and the angle of the toe arm is parallel with the LCA - which has been modified to correct the roll center.

I was actually thinking of doing this if
we don't end up making our own

I would be interested in a pair of shock mount sphericals though....I am not sure what they run, but I know it would be MUCH better then the OEM bushings - and I have brand new ones of those sitting in a box in my closet, haha.

They were $180 shipped but they're gone.
But it seems that SPL lowered their prices on theirs now. :mepoke:

[JRas]

is it even worth replacing the knuckle with a z32 upright now because of this issue?

[longfellow]

I'm personally going back to stock uprights so I can run KW V3's. More than worth it IMO.

[az_240]

The rear shock is at too much of an angle for me to be confident in them. Not to mention you have to shave quite a bit for it not to bind on anything under compression as well as having to buy a $150 spherical because the stock bushing turns to mush after a month of driving.

Even with a spherical the shock load will be awkward on the upright because of the angle.

Sucks because you can definately feel a difference over the heavier stock uprights.

[driftpolice]

95katurbo, let me know if you do that, id like to have mine done also

[OptionZero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/OptionAero/postdrop.jpg

Hey guys, I'm bumping this thread to see if anyone else has had a "rear castor" problem after running Z32 uprights on an S14 at low ride heights.

My rear wheels are not centered in the wheel well; they are "tilted" toward the rear. This is causing rubbing problems. I am running 18x10.5 + 15 w/ 255/35/18 tires. My fenders are already pulled. The car is currently at the shop to see if they can pull it more, but the rubbing is the the tire contacting the rear 1/3 of the wheel well arch.

I can go overfenders in the rear and solve any rubbing issues, but my wheels will still not be centered and look wierd.

I've taken it to an alignment shop (G12 in Sacramento). I have no doubts in the competence of the owner, as he does all sorts of cars with all sorts of mods. He tells me the problem is the binding at the z32 upright and coilover forks. Although I have def's spherical bushings, there is physically not enough clearance between the fork mount and the upright mounting point. I believe there is sufficient angle of deflection in the bearing, but the upright mounting point is thick enough to hit the fork and prevent any more adjustment.

If i can reduce camber (after pulling the fender), he says he might get it more centered but probably not enough.

Has anyone modified their z32 uprights on an S14 chassis to gain more clearance (better angle)?

Would it be particularly difficult cut/re-weld the uprights and get a better angle for the upright mounting point?

Anyone in Norcal?

[icedsole]

^ not sure if that castor is directly related to z32 uprights. might be just from the low ride height. i know mine is a little out of wack with stock, but im not too sure.

i know knoop had a similar issue and he cut and welded his correct
http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/suspension8.jpg

but i could have sworn there was a company that made coilover lower mounts a bit offset for 240sx to z32 upright

i think era1 drop knuckle would easily fix your problem :)

[95KA-Turbo]

Yeah, here's another angle of the cut and weld job:

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rear-spindle1.jpg

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rear-spindle3.jpg


If you take your measurements carefully and can tell me how much it needs to move (preferably in a diagram) my friend was willing to do the mod and mail it back. I need to make sure he will still do it though because I know he's busy. He did it for someone else but we made them the same adjustment as mine and they didn't fit because that persons car didn't have the exact same alignment/height/etc as me.

[OptionZero]

Now that looks pretty good. I'll see if Driven Authority can do it (not sure how much fab work they do)

gonna be a bitch to take measurements

[95KA-Turbo]

I just used some calipers and measured (in mm) the free space on the top and bottom part that was not hitting, then drew a little diagram and did some simple math and he replicated it perfectly.

[ManoNegra]

I contemplated clocking the shock mount aswell
but decided to give grinding a try first
me and a friend have been running ours this way for over a year now
picture isn't great but I got clearance
the shock bottom articulates and doesn't hit the mount

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1817/image824.jpg

btw Option, it's cool to know that you can lower the car that much on the koni set up.

[OptionZero]

Because veilside180sx only had to shorten the bar between the cylindrical housing and the fork mount, i could re-use the same springs, koni insert, and ground control perches/sleeve, nothing really changed. No pre-load or sag when the perches were at the highest point on the sleeve


I'll also inquire as to shaving down the shock mounting point, there is ALOT of material there

[ManoNegra]

yes, it took quite a bit of grinding to get it to
where it needed to be
but we felt that the mount was robust enough
and that the grinding wouldn't compromise it

shopping and welding on the other can be tricky
few welders are good enough to do a good job on cast aluminum
gotta admit that Knoop's look pretty good though

[95KA-Turbo]

My friend that does the welding is good enough to weld extra head stud mounts into LS1 bottom ends to make them like LSX blocks. I haven't had any issues with it at all so far. Grinding definitely wasn't an option for mine, as it was really bound.


Edit: Found the picture.

http://i43.tinypic.com/20z9ttd.jpg

[OptionZero]

UPDATE:

Consulting with Driven Authority in Sacramento, I have come up with several possible solutions . . .

1) Overfenders. This is the least attractive options. It is purely cosmetic, does nothing regarding the geometry, and frankly, might not even work since my wheel is still not centered. It only solves the rubbing issue.

2) Cut and re-weld. Shop will do it if they can borrow a TIG welder, which they should be able to do from a machine shop nearby. Downside? Labor intensive to disassemble suspension to get to the upright and cut and reweld properly. Upside? No need for new parts, it's just work, and it's proven to work (as others have used it).

3) Shave spindle mounting point housing. No guarantee there is enough material to grind off to create the needed clearance, but pretty low risk. Still labor intensive

4) Adjustable lower control arms. Shop thinks it can source some cheapass ebay arms, then replace all bearings with QA1 grade (better grade, i assume?) ones for about $300 (about 1/3 Ikeya Formula cost) since they buy bearings frequently for other cars. This would add adjustability and not require cutting anything. Roughly equal in cost to how much they'd charge for cut/weld.

I'm sending some pix to my suspension guru (G12 Automotive) to have him weigh in; also waiting on cost estimates.

I am determined to get this fucking thing fixed.

[95KA-Turbo]

Could you explain how options 1 and 4 will do any good. Your problem is the shock mount, is it not?

[OptionZero]

Yeah, it's the shock mount.

#1 would help the rubbing issue but does nothing to the geometry, so i'm not doing that.

#4 i'm still trying to wrap my head around the geometry, which is why i'm asking. The adjustable lower arm would allow the length of the control arm to extended or shortened, I think. But I am struggling to envision how the other arms would be affected.

Right now I have three arms whose lengths I can adjust. Any adjustment would presumably affect the orientation of the spindle, right?

Those three points of adjustment, however, have proven to be insufficient to correctly orient the spindle.

Would adding a 4th dimension of adjustment (lower arm) create the angle I need? That is what I want to know.

Anyone have diagramming skills?

[95KA-Turbo]

I would think that if you could adjust the arms enough to tweak the spindle so that shock mount bolts up correctly, that all of your other arm mounts would be off. Just judging by what I saw with my set up.

It definitely got better or worse depending on if you moved the whole spindle up and down (like unbolt the shock and move everything up and down). However, it was only a slight change. It was easier to bolt the shock up if I unbolted the toe arm from the spindle. It was really difficult to bolt the toe arm back up though.

Again, you may be able to make it slightly better with more adjustment options, but from the looks of how low you are your best bet is to just cut/weld the shock mount. The shock mount angle in the rear is totally different for S13s/Z32s and S14s. Which again would lead me to believe if you did adjust it all to bolt up right you'd be compromising the geometry of the LCA, since its is said that S14s have a better designed rear subframe (and I would think that has something to do with it).

[az_240]

IMO out of those options you listed you are better off to cut/weld the uprights assuming you know someone that does quality work.

I did not want to go that route because I felt it was too much money to spend just to save a few pounds in the rear and still have crap bushings and roll center in the rear. Decided it would be better to just save up for DW or PSM knuckles by that point.